Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:45 AM - Re: Quick rv7 rudder question (Dan)
2. 03:07 AM - Re: Fuel Tank SB. Someone please talk to Richard VG (Dana Overall)
3. 03:52 AM - Re: Removing Proseal/Tank MSB (Doug Gray)
4. 04:16 AM - Re: Backup battery - Lightspeed EI (N395V)
5. 04:30 AM - Re: Re: Fuel tank SB (it's easy) (Dale Ensing)
6. 05:01 AM - Dowl 730 Source (Ed Anderson)
7. 05:02 AM - Re: Fuel Tank SB. (charles heathco)
8. 05:18 AM - Re: Re: Fuel tank SB (it's easy) (LarryRobertHelming)
9. 06:21 AM - Re: Fuel Tank SB. Someone please talk to Richard VG (bertrv6@highstream.net)
10. 06:47 AM - Re: Fuel Tank SB. Someone please talk to Richard VG (Vern W.)
11. 06:54 AM - Re: Quick rv7 rudder question (Dave Nellis)
12. 08:28 AM - Re: Dowl 730 Source (Chuck)
13. 08:55 AM - Re: Fuel Tank SB. Someone please talk to Richard VG (BRUCE GRAY)
14. 09:45 AM - Re: Confidence in Van's Designs, Previous subject: I have never seeing so many sb (Bob)
15. 10:14 AM - Low Adhesion ProSeal (Dean Pichon)
16. 10:22 AM - Re: Confidence in Van's Designs, Previous subject: I have never seeing so many sb (Joseph Larson)
17. 10:22 AM - Re: Removing Proseal/Tank MSB (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
18. 10:34 AM - Re: Low Adhesion ProSeal (Gerry Filby)
19. 10:42 AM - Re: Backup battery - Lightspeed EI ()
20. 11:07 AM - Re: Low Adhesion ProSeal (Dwight Frye)
21. 02:44 PM - (splevy@l-band-systems.com)
22. 03:14 PM - Re: Confidence in Van's Designs, Previous subject: I have never seeing so many sb (jsflyrv@comcast.net)
23. 04:01 PM - Re: Removing Proseal/Tank MSB (Steve Struyk)
24. 04:14 PM - Test (Tom & Cathy Ervin)
25. 04:43 PM - Re: Removing Proseal/Tank MSB (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
26. 06:31 PM - Using ProSeal for Tank Access Panles (Paul Trotter)
27. 08:02 PM - Re: Re: Backup battery - Lightspeed EI (Ed Holyoke)
28. 08:27 PM - Re: Re: Backup battery - Lightspeed EI (James Clark)
29. 11:33 PM - Official RV-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) (Matt Dralle)
30. 11:38 PM - Official RV-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Quick rv7 rudder question |
--> RV-List message posted by: Dan <dan@rdan.com>
David,
I'm on an -8 just starting the Rudder it used different spar and rib part numbers
but if it's the top tip rib, on the 8 it uses AN470AD4-4
not sure if it the same on a 7
Dan
-8 Rudder
David Karlsberg <claypride@hotmail.com> wrote:
--> RV-List message posted by: David Karlsberg
So I looked for what seemed to be like forever and cannot figure out what
type of rivet is used to connect R-912 (the counter balance rib) to R-902
(spar) anybody have the drawings handy?
Thanks,
David Karlsberg
Rudder -7
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Tank SB. Someone please talk to Richard VG |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
>From: G McNutt <gmcnutt@shaw.ca>
>I don't mind Van's covering their a--, but it should be done with some
>consideration and forethought for their customers.
George, just my point. Gedorge if you want to placard your airplane that
way as your means to address the alleged fuel issue, it is your airplane
that you have built. You have the right to do so, Van's can't make you, by
way of grounding, belittleing, or telling dirty jokes about you around the
water cooler:-)
A SB from a kit manufacturer, seems to me, to carry the same weight as a pre
sport pilot "Alleged" "licensed" ultralight "pilot". No slap at us who do
indeed like to fly ultralights but what the #$%!@#$%.
Sorry, I probably shouldn't say this but for some reason this SB, out of
many issued by Van's, reminds me of my parents telling me the hysteria
generated by the radio rendition of "War of the Worlds"..............the sky
is falling, the damn has burst, run for you lives.......oops my bad!!!!!
Heck, I'll go out on this vote limb.......Van's if you find something you
want me to change, tell me, I'll get to it based on the importance I place
on it for the aircraft I have built.
George, this is truly a very light hearted reply to your post. It is
nothing more than my own feelings, probably carries as much weight as a
Van's SB.
Just keep in mind, again my opinion and you get what you pay for, Van's
didn't issue this willy nilly. They talked about it, hashed it out amongest
themselves, typed up a draft, changed the draft until they agreed upon it's
release and released it. A lot of kit manufacturers would have swept it
under the rug with that "something wrong, what do you mean, had to be the
builder" attitude.
Primer, Primer, Primer............who needs it.
Dana Overall
Richmond, KY i39
RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic"
Finish kit
do not archive
On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to
get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Removing Proseal/Tank MSB |
--> RV-List message posted by: Doug Gray <dgra1233@bigpond.net.au>
On another occasion where I had to remove Proseal from Aluminium I found a serated
steak knife to
work the best. I was able to hack into the Proseal without any damage to the Al
or to the soft
alclad surface.
Doug Gray
LARRY ADAMSON wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "LARRY ADAMSON" <rvhi03@msn.com>
>
>
>
> I once heard that a plastic butter knife works well.
>
> What's the best method of removing tank end plates that are prosealed on?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Backup battery - Lightspeed EI |
--> RV-List message posted by: "N395V" <N395V@direcway.com>
> SEMPER FI
Semper Fi
1967-1972
Do not archive
--------
Milt
N395V
F1 Rocket
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=18662#18662
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank SB (it's easy) |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dale Ensing" <densing@carolina.rr.com>
Where do ya' order the Dow Corning 730 RTV sealant ? I bent my tank inspection
plates tryin' to take 'em off after 3 years of being "Pro-sealed".
Aircraft Spruce. Here is the page.
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/dow730.php
Dale Ensing
Message 6
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
Here is the same stuff from McMaster: http://www.mcmaster.com/
for a bit less money.
Size Color Each
730 3.0-oz. Tube White 74925A65 $71.60
730 Solvent Resistant- Contains fluorosilicone rubber, which resists
swelling when exposed to fuel, oil, and most solvents. Nonrunning paste for
repairing fuel lines and tanks, bonding components exposed to solvents, and
making formed-in-place gaskets. May corrode certain metals (including
copper, brass, zinc, and carbon steel). Begins to harden in 25 minutes.
Temperature range is -85 to +400 F.
Ed
Ed Anderson
Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews, NC
eanderson@carolina.rr.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dale Ensing" <densing@carolina.rr.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 7:29 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Fuel tank SB (it's easy)
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Dale Ensing" <densing@carolina.rr.com>
>
>
> Where do ya' order the Dow Corning 730 RTV sealant ? I bent my tank
> inspection
> plates tryin' to take 'em off after 3 years of being "Pro-sealed".
>
> Aircraft Spruce. Here is the page.
>
> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/dow730.php
>
> Dale Ensing
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Tank SB. |
--> RV-List message posted by: "charles heathco" <cheathco@junct.com>
Its also on pg 80 of the 24 yrs edition, alongwith othere tank info. Charlie H
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank SB (it's easy) |
--> RV-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming@sigecom.net>
>
>> I bought mine from Vans. When mixed properly, and shown respect for its
>> age
>> and the temperature environment it was stored in I had excellent results.
>
> Hi Larry,
>
> Was your "proseal" in the caulk tube or in the can?
Mine was in the can and had the black activator in a separate container.
LRH
>
> Mine was in the tube. I've got a picture of the label
> here:
>
> http://www.rv8.ch/article.php?story=20040726220023545
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Tank SB. Someone please talk to Richard VG |
--> RV-List message posted by: bertrv6@highstream.net
Quoting G McNutt <gmcnutt@shaw.ca>:
> --> RV-List message posted by: G McNutt <gmcnutt@shaw.ca>
>
> Hi Dana
>
> Dana Overall wrote:
>
> >snip -- Van's sees a potential problem that could affect the lives of
> pilots flying kit planes purchased from them. ------------- what if that
> fellow bores a hole in the ground when the nut he thought was tight 5 years
> ago
> >come loose --------------------
> >
> >
> >
> Van's tech support people have been telling people that Van's "has
> assumed owners are checking these fittings at every annual". If that was
> the case why would they not give some consideration in the bulletin for
> someone who had just done his annual.
>
> I don't mind Van's covering their a--, but it should be done with some
> consideration and forethought for their customers.
> Instead of the "before further flight", wouldn't a SB (1) requiring a
> placard (change tanks in event of power loss dummy) and /or (2) minimum
> fuel 1/2 tank until inspection completed have been better.
>
> So lets hope Van hires a new SB writer, maybe someone from Lycoming who
> will not use the "allegedly" word.
>
> George in Langley BC
> do not archive
>
> Mr. George:
I cannot believe the amount of postings on this. WHO CARES, YOU DO NOT
HAVE TO DO ANYTHING IF YOU WANT. YOU CAN FLY WITH FLAT TIRES IF YOU WANT..
WHY THE COOMPLAINT... JUST IGNORE IT AND GO ON...
I DID MINE, LAST WEEK END, NO BIG DEAL... BUT I DECIDED TO DO IT.
IF VAN's come up with another sb. tomorrow,, fine with me..
let's give a rest..
Bert
rv6a
DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Tank SB. Someone please talk to Richard VG |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Vern W." <highflight1@gmail.com>
I understand maybe a little frustration because of having to dig back into
the wings to do this SB, but I don't understand what could be called the
"furor" about it.
It looks to me that people are a lot more upset about the fuel tank SB than
they are about the Lycoming "issue" that will require an average of about
$6000 to $8000 to comply once the parts are bought and the labor is paid
for.
I wonder if it's because RV builders are so spoiled nowadays with
pre-punched kits, QB kits, and so much prefab that's done for us that we
forget what Experimental kits were like just a dozen years ago.
I think we should all just do it, be thankful that Van's is on top of safety
issues (whether real or imagined), and look forward to some more SB's as
time goes on. This isn't the first, and it sure isn't going to be the last.
Go buy a used GA aircraft and have some REAL fun making sure that all AD's
have been complied with since the day it was built. Some GA aircraft would
make our RV's with its' SB's look like a walk in the park.
Vern W.
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Quick rv7 rudder question |
--> RV-List message posted by: Dave Nellis <truflite@yahoo.com>
I had that same question when I built my rudder not
that long ago. I could not find an answer. So, I
went back to basics. I knew that I needed 1.5 times
the diameter of the rivet protruding from the shop
side. I therefore took some different length AN470AD4
rivets and fit each one till I found one that looked
to be about 1.5 times as long as the diameter. If you
are getting specific, you need .140 sticking out.
Dave
--- David Karlsberg <claypride@hotmail.com> wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: David Karlsberg
> <claypride@hotmail.com>
>
> So I looked for what seemed to be like forever and
> cannot figure out what
> type of rivet is used to connect R-912 (the counter
> balance rib) to R-902
> (spar) anybody have the drawings handy?
>
> Thanks,
> David Karlsberg
> Rudder -7
>
>
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
>
> Admin.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Dowl 730 Source |
--> RV-List message posted by: Chuck <chuck515tigger@yahoo.com>
Thank you very much.
Chuck
( Donut Archive :-)
...but seriously, Do Not Archive.
Ed Anderson <eanderson@carolina.rr.com> wrote:
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson"
Here is the same stuff from McMaster: http://www.mcmaster.com/
for a bit less money.
Size Color Each
730 3.0-oz. Tube White 74925A65 $71.60
730 Solvent Resistant- Contains fluorosilicone rubber, which resists
swelling when exposed to fuel, oil, and most solvents. Nonrunning paste for
repairing fuel lines and tanks, bonding components exposed to solvents, and
making formed-in-place gaskets. May corrode certain metals (including
copper, brass, zinc, and carbon steel). Begins to harden in 25 minutes.
Temperature range is -85 to +400 F.
Ed
Ed Anderson
Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews, NC
eanderson@carolina.rr.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dale Ensing"
Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 7:29 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Fuel tank SB (it's easy)
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Dale Ensing"
>
>
> Where do ya' order the Dow Corning 730 RTV sealant ? I bent my tank
> inspection
> plates tryin' to take 'em off after 3 years of being "Pro-sealed".
>
> Aircraft Spruce. Here is the page.
>
> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/dow730.php
>
> Dale Ensing
>
>
>
---------------------------------
Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Tank SB. Someone please talk to Richard VG |
--> RV-List message posted by: "BRUCE GRAY" <brucerv84us@hotmail.com>
Amen Brother!
You should look at some of those aircraft at the airport tided down for
months/years on end and then one day see a car pull up unchaulk that sucker
and spit, sputter, pop the engine to life and take-off. No way man!
The end result of all this conversations, posts, mild cursing and argument
to comply with the S/B is exactly what Van's intended to do with it, "IT HAS
US ALL PAYING ATTENTION".
The new word at the airport, "To comply, Or not to comply.
Have fun, Fly safe,
Bruce Gray
RV8 Fuse
>From: "Vern W." <highflight1@gmail.com>
>To: rv-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel Tank SB. Someone please talk to Richard VG
>Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 08:46:46 -0600
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Vern W." <highflight1@gmail.com>
>
>I understand maybe a little frustration because of having to dig back into
>the wings to do this SB, but I don't understand what could be called the
>"furor" about it.
>
>It looks to me that people are a lot more upset about the fuel tank SB than
>they are about the Lycoming "issue" that will require an average of about
>$6000 to $8000 to comply once the parts are bought and the labor is paid
>for.
>
>I wonder if it's because RV builders are so spoiled nowadays with
>pre-punched kits, QB kits, and so much prefab that's done for us that we
>forget what Experimental kits were like just a dozen years ago.
>
>I think we should all just do it, be thankful that Van's is on top of
>safety
>issues (whether real or imagined), and look forward to some more SB's as
>time goes on. This isn't the first, and it sure isn't going to be the last.
>Go buy a used GA aircraft and have some REAL fun making sure that all AD's
>have been complied with since the day it was built. Some GA aircraft would
>make our RV's with its' SB's look like a walk in the park.
>
>Vern W.
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Confidence in Van's Designs, Previous subject: I have |
never seeing so many sb
--> RV-List message posted by: Bob <panamared3@brier.net> have never seeing so
many sb
>I HAVE TO TELL YOU THAT I HAVE NEVER SEEING SO MANY POSTINGS AS THE ONE
>FOR THE S.B. TANKS..
>WHO CARES... ALL THESE PEOPLE COMPLAINING , AND HOWLING .. DON'T DO IT.
>NO ONE IS FORCING ANY ONE TO DO IT..
>I DID MINE, THIS PAST WEEK END. I HAVE HAD TO REMOVE ONE TANK BEFORE
>DUE TO A FUEL LEAK... NO BIG DEAL..
WARNING: If you don't want to get pissed off, please delete NOW!!!
I will tell you what the big deal is! This is a mandatory SB and I for one
feel that I should complete it before my next flight. Despite the SB
instructions this task will take me at least 20-30 hours of work. At this
time I do not have the time available to do this until sometime in
April. Which means I will not be flying until it is done in April. That
might not be a big deal for you, but it is for me.
I have read the instructions and for my RV they are flat out WRONG!!! No
way I can follow Vans instructions. One point is that on the inverted tank
the access plate is on the rear tank bulkhead. So this tank must come off
the airplane. My inverted fuel tank was built in accordance with the Vans
plans and construction manual. Once again wrong instructions might not be
a big deal for you, but it is for me.
But what the real BIG DEAL is that some of us have lost confidence
in Van's construction designs. Before, I felt that if Van designed it that
way, that was the the best way to build it. But now I feel like I have to
question everything in my aircraft.
So what else have I built according to the plans that may now be
wrong? FYI wing tanks have been on RVs for around 30 years, this is not a
new untried design or technique.
This is a significant emotional event for me, in other words, this is a BIG
DEAL!
I realize that other airplanes have these SBs and ADs. So that makes it
all right?
As for Lycoming crankshafts, it does not affect my engine, but this really
upsets me also. If I bought my Lycoming from Wall Mart I would expect
these types of problems, but at the price I paid for my engine I expect a
little bit better quality control. But on the other hand, as bad as
Lycoming quality control is, we just keep on buying them. We are our own
worst enemy.
Bob
RV6 NightFighter
Message 15
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| Subject: | Low Adhesion ProSeal |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dean Pichon" <deanpichon@msn.com>
Hi All,
For those of you looking for a means to seal the access panels to tanks
while maintaining the ability to remove them, look at PRC DeSoto's "low
adhesion" polysulfide (ProSeal) sealant:
http://www.ppg.com/prc-desoto/pdf/pr1428a.pdf
This is a modified polysulfide sealant designed specifically for access
doors and the like. The PRC-Desoto (PPG) is a wealth of valuable
information.
Dean
RV-4
Bolton, MA
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Confidence in Van's Designs, Previous subject: I have |
never seeing so many sb
--> RV-List message posted by: Joseph Larson <jpl@showpage.org>
Maybe the fact that everyone in the industry, from time to time,
needs to modify their design in this fashion should tell you something.
It's a complex problem, and no one, no matter how skilled, is able to
envision absolutely everything that can go wrong.
For weight and complexity reasons, a designer is going to keep his
design as simple as possible to safely fulfill the aircraft mission.
You add complexity only for good reason. Which means there are a lot
of judgement calls to make. And clearly, this particular call is 98%
right. The number of problems in this area have been small, but not
zero.
I guess I don't know what you expect. Perfection? It doesn't exist.
-Joe
do not archive
On Mar 1, 2006, at 12:39 PM, Bob have never seeing so many sb wrote:
> But what the real BIG DEAL is that some of us have lost confidence
> in Van's construction designs. Before, I felt that if Van designed
> it that
> way, that was the the best way to build it. But now I feel like I
> have to
> question everything in my aircraft.
>
> ....
> I realize that other airplanes have these SBs and ADs. So that
> makes it
> all right?
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Removing Proseal/Tank MSB |
--> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
In a message dated 2/28/06 8:00:31 PM Central Standard Time,
rv8striker@hotmail.com writes:
> I've had good success removing the old Proseal with a simple three step
> process. 1. carefully scrape the area with a razor. 2. Use a Dremel Tool
> with a small wire brush. This will remove 95% of the stuff. 3. A rag and
> some MEK will clean up what's left.
>>>>>>
How did you keep stuff from getting inside the tank?
Mark do not archive
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Low Adhesion ProSeal |
--> RV-List message posted by: Gerry Filby <gerf@gerf.com>
Thanks for the info !
Do you have a source for supply ? Nothing on Aircraft Spruce,
Silmid has it in their catalog, but doesn't have any ...
g
do not archive
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Dean Pichon" <deanpichon@msn.com>
>
> Hi All,
>
> For those of you looking for a means to seal the access panels to tanks
> while maintaining the ability to remove them, look at PRC DeSoto's "low
> adhesion" polysulfide (ProSeal) sealant:
>
> http://www.ppg.com/prc-desoto/pdf/pr1428a.pdf
>
> This is a modified polysulfide sealant designed specifically for access
> doors and the like. The PRC-Desoto (PPG) is a wealth of valuable
> information.
>
> Dean
> RV-4
> Bolton, MA
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
__g__
==========================================================
Gerry Filby gerf@gerf.com
Tel: 415 203 9177
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Backup battery - Lightspeed EI |
--> RV-List message posted by: <gmcjetpilot@yahoo.com>
Doug:
No offense to anyone, but people are going crazy with electrical stuff
and they are being overly influenced by a few sources. Here is the deal:
ONE:
IF you talk to Klaus the owner / inventor or the Lightspeed he does NOT
recommend dual batteries. You already have a BIG huge main battery
capable of starting the airplane. He does show a simple dual battery set-
up, but it is not required.
TWO:
The LS ignition uses VERY VERY little current (amps) and works on 4V to
35V !!!!!!!!!!!!!! That is a large operating voltage range! No other ignition does
this.
THREE:
Forget dual alternators and all the crap. It's B&C (who sells these
standby alternators) and Bob N. of Aerolelectric List, whose whole world
revolves around the electrical system PUSHING this. Bob's ideas tend
to push people to make their electrical system overly complicated,
expensive and heavy. Unless you are flying a $30k panel, IFR with an
electrically dependant automotive engine (EFI) than forget it.
FOUR:
THERE HAS NEVER been a LYCOMING taken out of the SKY because
the main battery failed or was not available. People will tell you they have
scary scary stories they **heard** of. I know, they are urban legend and
exaggerated. Ask who ever tells you a story to give you detailed FACTS.
They can't. The Lightspeed runs on voltages from 4V to 35V. READ 4V to 35V.
(If you push for detail, the stories have more holes in it than it makes sense.)
5 TH:
YOU DON'T **NEED** TWO BATTRIES OR TWO ALTERNATOR. The LS
ignition can fly all day on the main battery, fill the tanks and fly another
day, just on the battery. You do not have Electronic Fuel Injection and
electric only fuel pumps like AUTO engines. ONE ALTERNATOR, ONE
BATTERY is more than acceptable.
LAST:
Just wire the LS ignitions DIRECT to the battery and you will be fine.
Don't fall pray to the OVER DONE OVER COMPLICATED OVER
COSTLY HEAVY electrical systems. YOU HAVE A SINGLE ENGINE
PLANE FOR GOSH SAKES. You have a better chance of the Prop
falling off the engine than the battery not being their to get you on the
ground. Write me off line and we can talk how to wire to best assure
your IGNITION gets power, when and if you decide to get the EI.
Also some may suggest the P/E-mag. They are nice but they are lower
peformance EI than the Lightspeed. Don't consider MIX and match of
Lightspeed with P-mag because you will not get the gain in performance
a second ignitnon would normaly give.
Cheers George, RV-4, RV-7, B757
Subject: RV-List: Backup battery - Lightspeed EI
From: Doug Weiler <dcw@mnwing.org>
--> RV-List message posted by: Doug Weiler <dcw@mnwing.org>
Fellow Listers:
I am contemplating converting my mag driven 0-360 to Lightspeed
electronic ignition. I may consider the dual Lightspeed installation.
Lightspeed calls for a 4.5 amp/hr backup battery (if I so choose). I need
something small and light to squeeze this installation in to my RV-4. For
those that have done this, what backup battery did you use?
Thanks
Doug Weiler
N722DW, 275 hrs
---------------------------------
Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.
Message 20
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|
| Subject: | Re: Low Adhesion ProSeal |
--> RV-List message posted by: Dwight Frye <dwight@openweave.org>
I did a little bit of quick searching (Google is my friend) and found
a supplier in the US. It is "Business Aircraft Cnosumables, Inc." in
Crystal Lake, Illinois. I talked with a *very* helpful woman on the
phone and got some good information.
There are two variants of the PR-1428 product, both designed for use
as "fuel door sealants". The "A" version is thinner, but has a HAZMAT
charge of about $20 because it includes toluene. The "B" version does
NOT have toluene, and is therefore able to be shipped without the
HAZMAT charges.
It is available in a 3.5oz cartridge .. just like the cartridges of
ProSeal for those of you who have used them. It is actually a 6oz
sized container (meaning your 6oz Semco cartridge holder works) with
only 3.5oz of material packed inside it. Just about perfect for what
we need. If you have a need/desire to thin it, you can do so with MEK
or toluene yourself ... but I don't see a real need, personally.
The price for the 3.5oz cartridge of PR-1428B is right at $40. Not cheap,
but maybe worth it to avoid having to play gorilla if you ever need to
get the cover off again. I don't know if this is the cheapest place to
get the stuff ... but I do know they normally stock it (they are out
right now, but will have more in within the next 2-3 days). They do NOT
stock the "A" version, however.
BAC's website is http://www.bac1.peachhost.com/Home.htm, and their
phone number is 888-239-6625. I have no affiliation with this company,
not even as a satisfied customer (yet). If someone finds it cheaper,
great ... but if not, these folks will likely be who gets my $$$ as
I intend to comply with the SB (I ain't flying yet, so why not??) and
will likely re-seal my cover with the PR-1428B material.
-- Dwight
On Wed Mar 1 13:32:12 2006, Gerry Filby wrote :
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: Gerry Filby <gerf@gerf.com>
>
>
>Thanks for the info !
>
>Do you have a source for supply ? Nothing on Aircraft Spruce,
>Silmid has it in their catalog, but doesn't have any ...
>
>g
>
>do not archive
>
>>
>> --> RV-List message posted by: "Dean Pichon" <deanpichon@msn.com>
>>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> For those of you looking for a means to seal the access panels to tanks
>> while maintaining the ability to remove them, look at PRC DeSoto's "low
>> adhesion" polysulfide (ProSeal) sealant:
>>
>> http://www.ppg.com/prc-desoto/pdf/pr1428a.pdf
>>
>> This is a modified polysulfide sealant designed specifically for access
>> doors and the like. The PRC-Desoto (PPG) is a wealth of valuable
>> information.
>>
>> Dean
>> RV-4
>> Bolton, MA
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>--
>__g__
>
>==========================================================
>Gerry Filby gerf@gerf.com
> Tel: 415 203 9177
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 21
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--> RV-List message posted by: splevy@l-band-systems.com
A cautionary note here.
This "low adhesion" sealant appears to be the same that is used on Grumman AA series
planes to seal the access panels in the bottom of the tank (bottom skin).
They require it because the panels are .032 material in mid-span of the thin
skin, and are basically unsupported. The regular sealant makes removing the
panels a near impossible task without bending something. With the "low adhesion"
sealant, it is possible. (The warm, sharp putty knife trick.)
However, it is common knowledge about Grummans that these panels will leak, the
only question is when. Leaking and oozing bottom cover plates are extremely
common in the Grumman fleet. The only saving grace is that these panels are at
least out where they can worked on fairly easily.
I would not use it on an RV wing tank, knowing it will only be a matter of time
before it begins to leak. I just finished closing up my first tank, and I will
use regular Proseal for the cover.
Your mileage may vary.
Blue Skies.
Stan
N67Sl (reserved)
RV7-A (wings)
KCCB
N6085L
Grumman Traveler
KEMT
>> For those of you looking for a means to seal the access panels to tanks
>> while maintaining the ability to remove them, look at PRC DeSoto's "low
>> adhesion" polysulfide (ProSeal) sealant:
>>
>> http://www.ppg.com/prc-desoto/pdf/pr1428a.pdf
>>
>> This is a modified polysulfide sealant designed specifically for access
>> doors and the like. The PRC-Desoto (PPG) is a wealth of valuable
>> information.
Message 22
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|
| Subject: | Re: Confidence in Van's Designs, Previous subject: I have |
never seeing so many sb
--> RV-List message posted by: jsflyrv@comcast.net
If I was you I would junk that piece of S**t rght now. I am sure that the design
is so bad that it will fall apart the next time you get in it. NO WAY AM I EVER
GOING TO FLY MINE AGAIN. You have made me aware that the thing is junk
and Van's does not have a clue what they are doing. I sure wish that I had known
this 17 years ago when I built mine. I would not have flown it all these years
if you had told me they did not know how to design the most popular homebuilt
in the world..
do not archive
-------------- Original message --------------
From: Bob <panamared3@brier.net> have never seeing so many sb
> --> RV-List message posted by: Bob have never seeing so
> many sb
>
>
> >I HAVE TO TELL YOU THAT I HAVE NEVER SEEING SO MANY POSTINGS AS THE ONE
> >FOR THE S.B. TANKS..
> >WHO CARES... ALL THESE PEOPLE COMPLAINING , AND HOWLING .. DON'T DO IT.
> >NO ONE IS FORCING ANY ONE TO DO IT..
> >I DID MINE, THIS PAST WEEK END. I HAVE HAD TO REMOVE ONE TANK BEFORE
> >DUE TO A FUEL LEAK... NO BIG DEAL..
>
> WARNING: If you don't want to get pissed off, please delete NOW!!!
>
> I will tell you what the big deal is! This is a mandatory SB and I for one
> feel that I should complete it before my next flight. Despite the SB
> instructions this task will take me at least 20-30 hours of work. At this
> time I do not have the time available to do this until sometime in
> April. Which means I will not be flying until it is done in April. That
> might not be a big deal for you, but it is for me.
>
> I have read the instructions and for my RV they are flat out WRONG!!! No
> way I can follow Vans instructions. One point is that on the inverted tank
> the access plate is on the rear tank bulkhead. So this tank must come off
> the airplane. My inverted fuel tank was built in accordance with the Vans
> plans and construction manual. Once again wrong instructions might not be
> a big deal for you, but it is for me.
>
> But what the real BIG DEAL is that some of us have lost confidence
> in Van's construction designs. Before, I felt that if Van designed it that
> way, that was the the best way to build it. But now I feel like I have to
> question everything in my aircraft.
>
> So what else have I built according to the plans that may now be
> wrong? FYI wing tanks have been on RVs for around 30 years, this is not a
> new untried design or technique.
>
> This is a significant emotional event for me, in other words, this is a BIG
> DEAL!
>
> I realize that other airplanes have these SBs and ADs. So that makes it
> all right?
>
> As for Lycoming crankshafts, it does not affect my engine, but this really
> upsets me also. If I bought my Lycoming from Wall Mart I would expect
> these types of problems, but at the price I paid for my engine I expect a
> little bit better quality control. But on the other hand, as bad as
> Lycoming quality control is, we just keep on buying them. We are our own
> worst enemy.
>
>
> Bob
> RV6 NightFighter
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
If I was you I would junk that piece of S**t rght now. I am sure that the design
is so bad that it will fall apart the next time you get in it. NO WAY AM I EVER
GOING TO FLY MINE AGAIN. You have made me aware that the thing is junk
and Van's does not have a clue what they are doing. I sure wish that I had known
this 17 years ago when I built mine. I would not have flown it all these years
if you had told me they did not know how to design the most popular homebuilt
in the world..
do not archive
-------------- Original message --------------
From: Bob panamared3@brier.net have never seeing so many sb
-- RV-List message posted by: Bob <PANAMARED3@BRIER.NET>have never seeing so
many sb
I HAVE TO TELL YOU THAT I HAVE NEVER SEEING SO MANY POSTINGS AS THE ONE
FOR THE S.B. TANKS..
WHO CARES... ALL THESE PEOPLE COMPLAINING , AND HOWLING .. DON'T DO IT.
NO ONE IS FORCING ANY ONE TO DO IT..
I DID MINE, THIS PAST WEEK END. I HAVE HAD TO REMOVE ONE TANK BEFORE
DUE TO A FUEL LEAK... NO BIG DEAL..
WARNING: If you don't want to get pissed off, please delete NOW!!!
I will tell you what the big deal is! This is a mandatory SB and I for one
feel that I should complete it before my next flight. Despite the SB
inst
ructions this task will take me at least 20-30 hours of work. At this
time I do not have the time available to do this until sometime in
April. Which means I will not be flying until it is done in April. That
might not be a big deal for you, but it is for me.
I have read the instructions and for my RV they are flat out WRONG!!! No
way I can follow Vans instructions. One point is that on the inverted tank
the access plate is on the rear tank bulkhead. So this tank must come off
the airplane. My inverted fuel tank was built in accordance with the Vans
plans and construction manual. Once again wrong instructions might not be
a big deal for you, but it is for me.
But what the real BIG DEAL is that some of us have lost confidence
in Van's construction designs. Before, I felt that if Van designed it that
way, that was the the best way to build it. But now I
feel like I have to
question everything in my aircraft.
So what else have I built according to the plans that may now be
wrong? FYI wing tanks have been on RVs for around 30 years, this is not a
new untried design or technique.
This is a significant emotional event for me, in other words, this is a BIG
DEAL!
I realize that other airplanes have these SBs and ADs. So that makes it
all right?
As for Lycoming crankshafts, it does not affect my engine, but this really
upsets me also. If I bought my Lycoming from Wall Mart I would expect
these types of problems, but at the price I paid for my engine I expect a
little bit better quality control. But on the other hand, as bad as
Lycoming quality control is, we just keep on buying them. We are our own
worst enemy.
Bob
RV6 NightFighter <BR
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Removing Proseal/Tank MSB |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Steve Struyk" <rv8striker@hotmail.com>
Back tape the hole. Put masking tape on the back side of the hole around the
perimeter, then fill the center with tape as well. One would do the same if
painting over a hole when no paint was wanted inside the opening.
Do not archive
Steve Struyk
RV-8
35 hours
----- Original Message -----
From: <Fiveonepw@aol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 12:22 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Removing Proseal/Tank MSB
> --> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 2/28/06 8:00:31 PM Central Standard Time,
> rv8striker@hotmail.com writes:
>
>> I've had good success removing the old Proseal with a simple three step
>> process. 1. carefully scrape the area with a razor. 2. Use a Dremel Tool
>> with a small wire brush. This will remove 95% of the stuff. 3. A rag and
>> some MEK will clean up what's left.
>
>>>>>>>
>
> How did you keep stuff from getting inside the tank?
>
> Mark do not archive
>
>
>
Message 24
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Tom & Cathy Ervin" <tcervin@valkyrie.net>
do not archive TEST
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Removing Proseal/Tank MSB |
--> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
In a message dated 03/01/2006 6:03:31 PM Central Standard Time,
rv8striker@hotmail.com writes:
Back tape the hole.
>>
Gotcha- ten points for technique-thanks, Steve!
Mark do not archive
Message 26
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| Subject: | Using ProSeal for Tank Access Panles |
--> RV-List message posted by: Paul Trotter <ptrotter@acm.org>
The discussions regarding Van's fuel tank pickup SB has shown that many
people use ProSeal to seal their access panels to the tank. This is a good
method, however it has been pointed out that ProSeal is a pain to remove due
to its adhesion qualities. A better alternative may be to use sealant
designed specifically for this purpose. All the companies that make tank
sealant also make access panel sealant that provides the same sealing
characteristics but with lower adhesion so the access panels can be removed
when necessary.
The following table shows the part numbers for various types of sealants
from the major manufacurers:
Product Type
PPG (Pro-Seal)
Flamemaster (Chem Seal)
AC Tech
Tank Sealant
P/S 890, PR-1440
CS 3204
AC-236
Access Panel Sealant
PR-1321, PR 1428
CS 3330
AC-215
Firewall Sealant
P/S 812, P/S 700
CS 1900
Tank Sealant (Rapid Cure)
CS 3204R
AC-240
A good source for the Flamemaster products is Sealpak Company
(www.sealpakcoinc.com) at (316) 942-6211. They are easy to deal with and
have no minimum order and can supply any of the Flamemaster products in any
amount you need.
Paul Troter
RV-8 82080 Fuselage Kit
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Backup battery - Lightspeed EI |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop@pacbell.net>
Doug,
Don't let anybody tell you what to do or not to do. Do some research and
make up your own mind.
If you think that 2 batteries are a good idea for 2 electronic
ignitions, that's what you should do. I agree with this idea myself. I
like the idea of having a second battery, not so much for capacity
reasons, but for redundancy. I intend to connect my dual lightspeeds to
separate batteries at the battery terminals in my RV-6 project so as to
eliminate as many single points of failure as possible. I plan to
connect both batteries to the alternator with separate contactors so
that both can be charged by and isolated from the system in case of
alternator failure.
4.5 ah should be plenty to keep one ignition alive until you run out of
gas if the battery is in good condition and you disconnect it from the
main buss soon after alternator failure. You should probably have a low
voltage light to tell you if that happens. You might want to replace the
battery yearly to be sure it has enough capacity to do the job if called
upon. If you are using a 25 ah battery as your main, you could
substitute 2- 16 ah PC-680 odyssey batteries for more net capacity and
not too much extra weight. I'm planning to run that setup and replace
one of the batteries every year so that neither is ever more than two
years old, but then I'm going to have an all electric panel to feed and
care for, so I need more ampere hours capacity than you might.
Check out: http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Rev11/AppZ_R11E.pdf
and look at Z-28 and Z-30 for ideas. You could also subscribe to the
aeroelectric.list at Matronics for more ideas.
By the way, we're running one Lightspeed and one mag now on our 6a and
it works great. If the mag quits, well probably throw on another
Lightspeed and work up a second battery. The one we have is crank
triggered. If we get another it will be hall effect in the mag drive.
Again, no single point of failure to take out both ignitions.
Pax,
Ed Holyoke
Fellow Listers:
I am contemplating converting my mag driven 0-360 to Lightspeed
electronic ignition. I may consider the dual Lightspeed installation.
Lightspeed calls for a 4.5 amp/hr backup battery (if I so choose). I
need
something small and light to squeeze this installation in to my RV-4.
For
those that have done this, what backup battery did you use?
Thanks
Doug Weiler
N722DW, 275 hrs
---------------------------------
Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Backup battery - Lightspeed EI |
--> RV-List message posted by: "James Clark" <jclarkmail@gmail.com>
"gmcjetpilot" and others ...
Although Klaus may not "recommend" dual batteries, there is a GOOD reason to
have a small dedicated battery in some cases.
My friend has a LightSpeed + a non-impulse mag. Using a PC680 and a starter
I do not remember, there were times wherein te ONLY way he could crank was
AFTER the release of the starter button.
He and I MEASURED the voltage and at a voltage that we THINK we measured
much ABOVE 4 volts, his engine would NOT crank.
We tried adding a capacity to store a just enough to get things started but
in the end a small battery was the answer.
And yes, we did talk to Klaus. He first figured we wired something wrong.
(We had not). The then stated the voltages at which the unit theoretically
works. In our case it would not CRANK at a voltage higher than specified.
With the battery it all works fine.
Now this is not LS or Klaus bashing. I have one in the RV I am building now.
The reason for the low voltage was my friend's starter dragged it down, but
hey, not all starters are whizz-bang, super-duper crank-em up.
FOr a lot of other reasons, my underconstruction plane has dual PC680's but
if I were building a simpler plane with the LS, I would add the little
battey, if for no other reason than peace of mind.
James.
On 3/1/06, gmcjetpilot@yahoo.com <gmcjetpilot@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: <gmcjetpilot@yahoo.com>
>
> <SNIP>
ONE:
> IF you talk to Klaus the owner / inventor or the Lightspeed he does NOT
> recommend dual batteries. You already have a BIG huge main battery
> capable of starting the airplane. He does show a simple dual battery set-
> up, but it is not required.
>
> TWO:
> The LS ignition uses VERY VERY little current (amps) and works on 4V to
> 35V !!!!!!!!!!!!!! That is a large operating voltage range! No other
> ignition does this.
>
> <SNIP>
This is an alternate email. Please continue to email me at
james@nextupventures.com .
Message 29
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| Subject: | Official RV-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) |
--> RV-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Dear Listers,
Please read over the RV-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below. The
complete RV-List FAQ including the Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/RV-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
[ Note: This FAQ was designed to be displayed with a fixed width font such as
Courier. Proportional fonts will cause display formatting errors. ]
This FAQ can also be viewed in HTML online at the following address:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm
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The Subscribe/Unsubscribe web page is:
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You should receive the first email within a few minutes of your request.
The second conformation will arrive in less than 24 hours. You cannot post
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disable any "Quoted Printable" or "HTML" encoding whenever possible.
Because enclosures are stripped out of incoming posts to the List,
the likelihood of getting a virus from the List is extremely small.
If you do receive a message that appears to be from the List, and it
does include a virus, it is very likely that it was sent *directly*
to you from someone on the List who has a virus. This is a specific
kind of virus, and you should try to inform the sender, if possible.
The best protection against viruses is a good virus protection program
such as Norton Antivirus. State of the art in virus protection today's
world gives maximum protection with little or no negative impact on
the computer system. You can't afford to be without a good virus
protection program these days.
Note that some limited enclosure posting is now enabled on a number
of Lists. Allowed types include .jpg, .gif, .txt, .pdf, .xls, and
a few other similar types.
*******************
*** Digest Mode ***
*******************
Each day, starting at 12 midnight PST US, a new 'digest' will be started.
This digest will contain the same information that is currently appended
to the archive file. It has all of the headers except for the "From:"
and "Subject:" lines removed, and includes a message separator consisting
of a line of underscores.
Each day at 23:55 PST US, the day's messages as described above will be
combined and sent as a single message to everyone on the digest email list.
To subscribe to the digest list, use the same subscription web form
described above, and just select the Digest version of the List.
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
Note that you *can* be subscribed to both the realtime and digest versions
of the List at the same time. This is perfectly acceptable.
Now some caveats:
* Messages sent to "rv-list-digest" will be forwarded to the standard
email list. In other words, you cannot post messages only to the
digest List.
* If you are subscribed to both the regular List and the digest List, you
will receive the realtime postings as well as the digest at the end of
the day.
* If you reply to the digest email, your message will be forwarded to the
normal list associated with the digest. Important Note: Please change
the subject line to reflect the topic of your response! Also, please
*do not include all or most of the digest in your reply*.
****************************
*** List Digest Browser ***
****************************
An archive of all the List Digests can be found online in either plain text
or HTML format. These archives contain the exact Digest that was posted to
the Digest email list on the given day. The Digest Archives can be found
at the following location:
http://www.matronics.com/digest
*****************************************
*** The "DO NOT ARCHIVE" Message Flag ***
*****************************************
At times, your message may concern something that is revelent only to a very
small number of persons or to a limited area, and you may not wish to archive
it. In such a case, simply put the following phrase anywhere in the
message:
do not archive
Your message will not be appended to the archive, but will be sent to List
email distribution as normal.
**********************************************
***** READ THIS - Automatic Unsubscribes *****
**********************************************
Note that if your email address begins to cause problems such as bounced
email, mailbox is filled, or any other errors, your address will be promptly
removed from the List. If you discover that you are no longer receiving
messages from the RV-List, go to the following Web page, and look
for your email address and a possible reason for your removal.
The Matronics Email List uses utility called the "Email Weasel" that
automatically looks though the day's bounced email for addresses that
caused problems due to common things like "user is unknown", "mailbox
full", etc. If the Email Weasel removes your email address from the
Lists you will find record of it at the following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/unsubscribed
If the problem listed on the web site above has been resolved, please feel
free to resubscribe to the Lists of your choice.
*******************************
*** List Member Information ***
*******************************
If you have not done so already, please email me your phone numbers and
paper mail address in the following format:
smith@somehost.com
Joe Smith
123 Airport Lane
Tower, CA 91234-1234
098-765-1234 w
123-456-7890 h
Please forward this information to the following email address:
requests@matronics.com
I have a file of such things, that I typically use to contact you when
there are problems with your email address. The information will NOT
be used for any other commercial purpose.
****************************************
*** Realtime Web Email List Browsing ***
****************************************
Recent messages posted to the RV-List are also made available on
the Web for realtime browsing. Seven days worth of back postings are
available with this feature. The messages can be sorted by Subject,
Author, Date, or Message Thread. The Realtime List Browser indexes are
updated twice per hour at xx:15 and xx:45. You can also reply to a message
or start a new message directly from the List Browser Interface (coming soon).
You do not have to be subscribed to the given list to use the List
Browser Interface in view-mode.
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/rv-list
*******************************************
*** Web Forums Bulletin Board Interface ***
*******************************************
A phpBB BBS web Forums front end is available for all RV-List content.
content. The Forums contain all of the same content available via the email
distribution and found on the various archive viewing formats such as the
List Browse, etc. Any posts on the web Forums will be cross posted to the
respective email List, and posts to the Email List will be cross posted to
the web Forums.
You may view all List content on the Forums without any special login.
If you wish to post a message via the Web Forum interface, however, you
will need to Register. This is a simple process that takes only a few
minutes. A link to the Registration page can be found at the top of the
main web Forums page. Note that registering on the Forum web site also
enables you to send email posts to the Lists as well. You will also need to
Subscribe to the respective Email List as described above to receive the
Email Distribution of the List, however.
The Matroincs Email List Web BBS Forums can be found at the following URL:
http://forums.matronics.com
*********************
*** List Archives ***
*********************
A file containing of all of the previous postings to the RV-List is
available on line. The archive file information is available via the
Web and FTP in a number of forms. Each are briefly described below:
* RV-List.FAQ
- Latest version of the RV-List Frequently Asked Question
page (this document).
* RV-Archive.digest.complete
- Complete file with most of the email header info removed and
page breaks inserted between messages.
* RV-Archive.digest.vol-??
- Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections that
can more easily handled.
* RV-Archive.digest.complete.zip
- Same as the RV-Archive.digest.complete file above, but
in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
* RV-Archive.digest.complete.Z
- Same as the RV-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in
UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
Download Via FTP
----------------
The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com
in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in
a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.)
ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives
Download Via Web
----------------
The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found
toward the bottom of the following web page:
http://www.matronics.com/archives
******************************************
*** Complete List Web Archive Browsing ***
******************************************
All messages posted to the RV-List are also available using the
Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages
in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed.
http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?RV
*****************************************
**** High-Speed Archive Search Engine ***
*****************************************
You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine
to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the
List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently
available List archives.
http://www.matronics.com/search
****************************
*** File and Photo Share ***
****************************
With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures
and other data with members of the List without having to forward a
copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email
them to:
pictures@matronics.com
!! ==> Please including the following information with each submission:
1) Email Lists that they are related to.
2) Your Full Name.
3) Your Email Address.
4) One line Subject description.
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic.
6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file
Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned
for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and
photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to
process them every few days.
Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be
sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new
Share is available and what the direct URL to it is.
For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main
Index Page:
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
**************************
*** List Archive CDROM ***
**************************
A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains
all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives
for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search
engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it
and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make
great gifts!
http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM
**********************************
*** List Support Contributions ***
**********************************
The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members.
You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of
annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web pages
associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November
I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month,
I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they
are comfortable.
I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during the
Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The gifts are usually donated
by companies that are themselves List members.
Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists
including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server
system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many
many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the
variety of services found here.
Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary
and non-compulsory. I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and obtains
value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude.
Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just
subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in.
The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. There are
a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and
sending a personal check.
If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to
support its continued operation?
http://www.matronics.com/contributions
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
RV-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the RV-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the RV-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
RV-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the RV-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occassional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularyly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
Message 30
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
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| Subject: | Official RV-List Usage Guidelines |
--> RV-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Dear Listers,
Please read over the RV-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete
RV-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/RV-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
RV-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the RV-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the RV-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
RV-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the RV-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occassional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularyly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
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