Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:43 AM - Re: Van's RV-8 Seat Foam (RV4WGH@aol.com)
2. 05:52 AM - Re: Van's RV-8 Seat Foam (Ed Anderson)
3. 06:22 AM - Re: OT: Battery choices (John Huft)
4. 07:15 AM - Re: annodized instrument panel? (Rob Prior (rv7))
5. 07:28 AM - Re: annodized instrument panel? (Evan and Megan Johnson)
6. 07:38 AM - Re: annodized instrument panel? (Belue, Kevin)
7. 07:51 AM - Re: annodized instrument panel? (Bruce Gray)
8. 08:53 AM - Re: Minimum altitude to return to airport (Richard Crosley)
9. 09:11 AM - Re: Cleaning Pro-Seal from sealing surfaces (BrownTool@aol.com)
10. 09:38 AM - Re: Minimum altitude to return to airport (Mickey Coggins)
11. 09:54 AM - Re: Minimum altitude to return to airport (John Jessen)
12. 10:22 AM - Re: Floscan and IO/360 (Dwight Frye)
13. 11:10 AM - Re: Floscan and IO/360 (Randy Lervold)
14. 12:22 PM - Re: Floscan and IO/360 (Dwight Frye)
15. 12:41 PM - RV Builders Family Reunion at Oshkosh (Bob Collins)
16. 01:31 PM - cleaning out the shop (Frazier, Vincent A)
17. 02:35 PM - Re: Floscan and IO/360 (Don)
18. 03:13 PM - Alaska Trip (Fred Stucklen)
19. 03:48 PM - Re: Re: Floscan and IO/360 (Dwight Frye)
20. 03:54 PM - Re: Re: Floscan and IO/360 (William Gill)
21. 04:40 PM - Re: Alaska Trip (Ted on RV list)
22. 05:26 PM - Re: Minimum altitude to return to airport (Todd Bartrim)
23. 06:22 PM - FNG question (Dan Ross)
24. 06:41 PM - Re: Trimming Engine Baffles to fit top cowling (Bobby Hester)
25. 07:08 PM - Aircraft for sale (Richard Sipp)
26. 07:20 PM - Re: annodized instrument panel? (sarg314)
27. 08:07 PM - Re: annodized instrument panel? (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
28. 08:34 PM - Re: anodized instrument panel? (Vanremog@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Van's RV-8 Seat Foam |
--> RV-List message posted by: RV4WGH@aol.com
We have a furniture store owner who is building an RV-9A. Last night at our
chapter meeting, this subject came up. He said that a lot of foam used in
furniture was produced in the south and factories were devastated by Katrina.
It is his belief that the prices will be coming down in the near future.
Remains to be seen.
Another note ... they are starting to make foams out of soybean oil.
Another step in the right direction.
Wally Hunt
Rockford, IL
RV-4 Finishing Kit
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Van's RV-8 Seat Foam |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
> --> RV-List message posted by: RV4WGH@aol.com
>
> We have a furniture store owner who is building an RV-9A. Last night at
> our
> chapter meeting, this subject came up. He said that a lot of foam used
> in
> furniture was produced in the south and factories were devastated by
> Katrina.
> It is his belief that the prices will be coming down in the near future.
> Remains to be seen.
>
> Another note ... they are starting to make foams out of soybean oil.
> Another step in the right direction.
>
> Wally Hunt
> Rockford, IL
> RV-4 Finishing Kit
>
Does that mean your seat cushion could be eaten (ugh!) as emergency
survival rations? {:>)
Ed
Ed Anderson
Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews, NC
eanderson@carolina.rr.com
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: OT: Battery choices |
--> RV-List message posted by: John Huft <rv8@lazy8.net>
Bill Dube wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Bill Dube <william.p.dube@noaa.gov>
>
>I crammed 26 of these into the battery pack. This works out to just over
>200 HP. I ran these "off the shelf" type batteries for one season when I
>couldn't get really high performance batteries. It was the heaviest
>battery pack I have put on the bike at 300 lbs.
>
>I don't quite draw them down to six volts. It's more like 7 volts.They
>sometimes melt the straps and split open if you draw much more than 850
>amps, so you can't quite draw them down to the ideal 1/2 open-circuit
>voltage.
>
>I just got a new sponsor, so I'm about to put a new pack in the bike. It
>should weigh about 135 lbs and put out 350 HP or more. Hopefully these
>batteries will arrive in a few weeks. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
>
>Bill Dube'
>
>Hopperdhh@aol.com wrote:
>
>
Bill, gonna give these a try??
A123Systems is working with Department of Energy to develop
next-generation materials for Hybrid Electric Vehicles. Our commercial
products enable a *significant cost and weight savings* vs. NiMH or
conventional Li-Ion technology for hybrid vehicles.
*Furthermore, our batteries are especially suited for plug-in electric
drive systems. Unique features include:*
Twice the energy density of other Li-Ion HEV cells, While having the
highest power to weight ratio of any commercially available battery
(100C pulse capability).
The lowest impedance of any cell/packs in its class
Low impedance growth even at very high charge/discharge rates
Outstanding calendar life
Novel design that withstands extreme shocks and vibration
Excellent performance over a wide temperature range (-30 to 60 degrees C)
Intrinsically safe chemistry (especially important in large batteries)
We have several customers designing high voltage electric drive products
around our technology and we can supply a high volume, high quality and
very competitively priced cells or packs manufactured at our Asian
production facilities.
John
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: annodized instrument panel? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Rob Prior (rv7)" <rv7@b4.ca>
On 19:45:47 2006-03-07 scott bilinski <rv8a2001@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I have seen several differnet colors fade that have been exposed to
> the sun. I would contact a company that does annodizing and see what
> they say.
One of the companies I worked for would make jigs for testing critical fits
of assemblies out of aluminum, and then have them anodized a dark red. It
was great for finding the jigs, and you knew that if it was anodized red
that it should be treated carefully as it was a precision measuring device.
A number of them were stored on a windowsill in our lab, and they did fade
over time on the side that faced the sun. Eventually we started rotating
them so they would fade more evenly, but they did fade.
Another consideration (sorry to drop this in so late in the discussion):
Anodizing changes the surface properties of the material, and may change
the mechanical properties as well. Not necessarily a problem in RV's where
the panel isn't a structural component, but in the RV-4 at least, the panel
is riveted in and forms a structural part of the fuselage. In that
instance you might not want to modify it's properties. You don't say what
kind of RV you're building.
-Rob
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: annodized instrument panel? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Evan and Megan Johnson" <evmeg@snowcrest.net>
I've been involved with building a couple of showplanes and the panels were
done in a similar manner...only the laser cut through paint. In one case
through one color exposing a second color underneath...not just down to the
metal. You might ask about the paint approach. No worries about fading.
Evan Johnson
www.evansaviationproducts.com
(530)247-0375
(530)351-1776 cell
----- Original Message -----
From: "sarg314" <sarg314@comcast.net>
Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 7:13 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: annodized instrument panel?
> --> RV-List message posted by: sarg314 <sarg314@comcast.net>
>
> Scott:
> (Sorry to respond so late to this, but I've been out of town). You
> say it fades in the sun. Are you speaking from experience? Do some
> dies/colors fade more than others?
>
> I'm thinking of doing a very dark blue. There's a trophy maker here
> in Tucson that makes electronics panels for the U of A Astronomy dept.
> (my employer). You dark anodize the panel and then give him an autocad
> or corel draw file of the labeling. He has a CO2 laser that then writes
> the labeling into the panel by burning off the anodize, exposing the
> bare aluminum underneath. Looks very good. The CO2 laser produces lines
> wiht very sharp edges, you can use different fonts, etc. It doesn't
> cost much either. So.... I'm interested in your experience with this.
>
> scott bilinski wrote:
>
> >--> RV-List message posted by: scott bilinski <rv8a2001@yahoo.com>
> >
> >It will fade in the sun.
> >
> >erichweaver@cox.net wrote: --> RV-List message posted by:
> >
> >Greeting
> >
> >I was considering anodizing my instrument panel to a color of my choice
rather than painting or powder coating. Any drawbacks to this, asthetic or
otherwise?
> >
> >regards
> >
> >Erich Weaver
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | annodized instrument panel? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Belue, Kevin" <KBelue@DRS-TEM.com>
Do any of you guys have recommendations for companies that can do this laser
cutting on a painted panel?
Kevin D. Belue
RV-6A Flying 700hrs
RV-10 Fuselage/Finish kit
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Evan and Megan
Johnson
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 9:27 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: annodized instrument panel?
--> RV-List message posted by: "Evan and Megan Johnson"
<evmeg@snowcrest.net>
I've been involved with building a couple of showplanes and the panels were
done in a similar manner...only the laser cut through paint. In one case
through one color exposing a second color underneath...not just down to the
metal. You might ask about the paint approach. No worries about fading.
Evan Johnson
www.evansaviationproducts.com
(530)247-0375
(530)351-1776 cell
----- Original Message -----
From: "sarg314" <sarg314@comcast.net>
Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 7:13 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: annodized instrument panel?
> --> RV-List message posted by: sarg314 <sarg314@comcast.net>
>
> Scott:
> (Sorry to respond so late to this, but I've been out of town). You
> say it fades in the sun. Are you speaking from experience? Do some
> dies/colors fade more than others?
>
> I'm thinking of doing a very dark blue. There's a trophy maker here
> in Tucson that makes electronics panels for the U of A Astronomy dept.
> (my employer). You dark anodize the panel and then give him an autocad
> or corel draw file of the labeling. He has a CO2 laser that then writes
> the labeling into the panel by burning off the anodize, exposing the
> bare aluminum underneath. Looks very good. The CO2 laser produces lines
> wiht very sharp edges, you can use different fonts, etc. It doesn't
> cost much either. So.... I'm interested in your experience with this.
>
> scott bilinski wrote:
>
> >--> RV-List message posted by: scott bilinski <rv8a2001@yahoo.com>
> >
> >It will fade in the sun.
> >
> >erichweaver@cox.net wrote: --> RV-List message posted by:
> >
> >Greeting
> >
> >I was considering anodizing my instrument panel to a color of my choice
rather than painting or powder coating. Any drawbacks to this, asthetic or
otherwise?
> >
> >regards
> >
> >Erich Weaver
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS EMAIL MAY BE DRS PROPRIETARY/COMPETITION
SENSITIVE AND IS ONLY INTENDED FOR THE ADDRESSEE OF THIS EMAIL
THIS DOCUMENT AND/OR SHIPMENT MAY CONTAIN COMMODITY ITEMS, SOFTWARE OR
TECHNICAL DATA THAT IS CONTROLLED BY U.S. EXPORT LAW, AND MAY NOT BE
EXPORTED OUTSIDE THE UNITED STATES OR TO NON U.S. PERSONS WITHOUT THE
APPROPRIATE EXPORT LICENSE FROM EITHER THE U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE OR
DEPARTMENT OF COMMERCE.
Message 7
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| Subject: | annodized instrument panel? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce@glasair.org>
Wayne at www.engravers.net.
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Belue, Kevin
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 10:37 AM
Subject: RE: RV-List: annodized instrument panel?
--> RV-List message posted by: "Belue, Kevin" <KBelue@DRS-TEM.com>
Do any of you guys have recommendations for companies that can do this laser
cutting on a painted panel?
Kevin D. Belue
RV-6A Flying 700hrs
RV-10 Fuselage/Finish kit
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Evan and Megan
Johnson
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 9:27 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: annodized instrument panel?
--> RV-List message posted by: "Evan and Megan Johnson"
<evmeg@snowcrest.net>
I've been involved with building a couple of showplanes and the panels were
done in a similar manner...only the laser cut through paint. In one case
through one color exposing a second color underneath...not just down to the
metal. You might ask about the paint approach. No worries about fading.
Evan Johnson
www.evansaviationproducts.com
(530)247-0375
(530)351-1776 cell
----- Original Message -----
From: "sarg314" <sarg314@comcast.net>
Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 7:13 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: annodized instrument panel?
> --> RV-List message posted by: sarg314 <sarg314@comcast.net>
>
> Scott:
> (Sorry to respond so late to this, but I've been out of town). You
> say it fades in the sun. Are you speaking from experience? Do some
> dies/colors fade more than others?
>
> I'm thinking of doing a very dark blue. There's a trophy maker here
> in Tucson that makes electronics panels for the U of A Astronomy dept.
> (my employer). You dark anodize the panel and then give him an autocad
> or corel draw file of the labeling. He has a CO2 laser that then writes
> the labeling into the panel by burning off the anodize, exposing the
> bare aluminum underneath. Looks very good. The CO2 laser produces lines
> wiht very sharp edges, you can use different fonts, etc. It doesn't
> cost much either. So.... I'm interested in your experience with this.
>
> scott bilinski wrote:
>
> >--> RV-List message posted by: scott bilinski <rv8a2001@yahoo.com>
> >
> >It will fade in the sun.
> >
> >erichweaver@cox.net wrote: --> RV-List message posted by:
> >
> >Greeting
> >
> >I was considering anodizing my instrument panel to a color of my choice
rather than painting or powder coating. Any drawbacks to this, asthetic or
otherwise?
> >
> >regards
> >
> >Erich Weaver
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS EMAIL MAY BE DRS PROPRIETARY/COMPETITION
SENSITIVE AND IS ONLY INTENDED FOR THE ADDRESSEE OF THIS EMAIL
THIS DOCUMENT AND/OR SHIPMENT MAY CONTAIN COMMODITY ITEMS, SOFTWARE OR
TECHNICAL DATA THAT IS CONTROLLED BY U.S. EXPORT LAW, AND MAY NOT BE
EXPORTED OUTSIDE THE UNITED STATES OR TO NON U.S. PERSONS WITHOUT THE
APPROPRIATE EXPORT LICENSE FROM EITHER THE U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE OR
DEPARTMENT OF COMMERCE.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Minimum altitude to return to airport |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Richard Crosley" <rcrosley@adelphia.net>
This thread on "returning to the airport" has been interesting but very academic.
Maybe the average guy can do a 180 and not stall, but there is a lot more
going on. First, the transition from power on climb attitude to power off glide
attitude is HUGE. Having lost an engine in a C-120 climbing out of Meadowlark
airport (closed now, Huntington Beach CA) I was surprised at how big that
transition is. After getting the nose down it was very obvious that a 180 was
out of the question. I turned 30 degrees left and landed in a plowed field.
But here's the point, if you lose your engine after a normal takeoff roll and
climbing to 500 feet, how much runway are you going to have left to land on after
making this 180? Not much. Probably more ahead of you than behind. You
can tell the guys, "Yep, I made a 180 back to the airport." Probably be best
to leave out the part about running off the end of the runway. Now, put yourself
in a Rocket or Pitts. If you are making that cool 3000 fpm climb and the
engine decides to take a break there are altitudes at which it is impossible to
get the nose down, establish a glide and land the airplane before hitting the
ground, forget the 180 degree turn. If you just cut off that thrust vector,
things happen fast. Anyway, just some more stuff to think about.
Rich Crosley
RV-8 N948RC
Rosamond, CA
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Cleaning Pro-Seal from sealing surfaces |
--> RV-List message posted by: BrownTool@aol.com
"Their method, was to take a piece of plexiglass, cut it into strips approx.
one inch by five or six inches long. sharpen one end on a grinder or belt
sander at about a 45 degree angle. that does a very good job of scraping most
of the old sealant off. as it gets dull or chipped, re-sharpen."
RV Listers,
I have been following this thread about removing/scraping sealant and wanted
to let everyone know that we have three very specific products which are
specifically designed for safe sealant removal. Obviously the key factor is to
avoid damaging any underlying materials/structures in the sealant removal
process. All of the following products are specifically designed for aircraft
sealant removal.
_http://www.browntool.com/productselect.asp?ProductID=654_
(http://www.browntool.com/productselect.asp?ProductID=654) (These are our new hand held
sealant scrapers and by far our most popular, originally designed for Boeing,
available in four shapes and found on page 105 of our Vol.14 Master Catalog)
_http://www.browntool.com/productselect.asp?ProductID=695_
(http://www.browntool.com/productselect.asp?ProductID=695) (Our "SR" Cutters, dsigned by 3M
for the Air Force, these feature 1/4-28 threads and are used in a threaded
drill motor - can remove sealant around fasteners - a little pricey (thanks 3M),
but they work exceptionally well - found on page 107 of our Master Catalog)
_http://www.browntool.com/productselect.asp?ProductID=649_
(http://www.browntool.com/productselect.asp?ProductID=649) (This is our hand held phenolic
scraper - extremely durable - found on page 104 of our Master Catalog)
We have other products in stock for removing sealant, and I am always glad
to offer any advice or answer questions - feel free to call me directly or
shoot me an e-mail off list. If you do not have a copy of our 132 page Master
Catalog, it is free for the asking.
"do not archive"
Thanks,
Michael Brown
Brown Aviation Tool Supply Co.
2536 S.E. 15th Street
Oklahoma City, OK 73129
USA
405-688-6888
Fax 405-688-6555
browntool@aol.com
www.browntool.com
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Minimum altitude to return to airport |
--> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
> ... First, the transition from power on
> climb attitude to power off glide attitude is HUGE. Having lost an
> engine in a C-120 climbing out of Meadowlark airport (closed now,
> Huntington Beach CA) I was surprised at how big that transition is.
So true! If you don't believe Rich, go out and try it, at
altitude. Simulate a climbout just after takeoff, then
chop the power. Wow. The more power you have, the more
dramatic the difference, assuming a Vx type climb.
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 finishing
do not archive
Message 11
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| Subject: | Minimum altitude to return to airport |
--> RV-List message posted by: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com>
Energy management and relative wind is what it's all about, besides having
the ability under extreme duress to figure it all out in time. For me,
it'll be upset training in the future when I can afford it, just to better
understand what all is going on. In the meantime, I will make sure I know
what my straight ahead options are and prepare for that. I'm not yet
skilled enough to even think about turning back given the scenario being
discussed on this thread.
A Navion that took off in full view of myself and a few others ran into this
exact situation. Lost engine around 500'. Two souls on board. Great
pilot. All kinds of hours and experience, but by the time he kicked into
mental gear there was no runway left to put it down. He managed to turn it
almost 180, but landed off airport in a nursery full of 3' high evergreen
trees. If he hadn't been skilled enough to do this, the souls would
probably have gone elsewhere, but as it turned out, he and his wife made it
okay, after multiple bones being broken and a stay in the hospital. I've
stood and looked at that end of the runway a great deal since then and have
come to the conclusion I would not have made it.
When flying out of White Plains, a check ride CFI asked what I would do if
we lost power on take off. I told him my plan that day would be to go
straight ahead, probably try to make the lake that was across a freeway and
slightly to the left of the runway. He said he'd rather the freeway, which
I thought rather selfish, given the traffic there would create more carnage.
Neither one of us said turn back.
I think that practicing such maneuvers is appropriate, at safe altitudes.
Practicing glides, too. Practice it all. Practice. Practice. Practice.
And when you take off have that engine out scenario and decision points
firmly in mind...in terms of your ability and skill. Mine for now is
straight ahead. Hopefully I'll be able to have a few other options as I
become a more skilled pilot.
John Jessen
40328 (empennage)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Crosley
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 8:49 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Minimum altitude to return to airport
--> RV-List message posted by: "Richard Crosley" <rcrosley@adelphia.net>
This thread on "returning to the airport" has been interesting but very
academic. Maybe the average guy can do a 180 and not stall, but there is a
lot more going on. First, the transition from power on climb attitude to
power off glide attitude is HUGE. Having lost an engine in a C-120 climbing
out of Meadowlark airport (closed now, Huntington Beach CA) I was surprised
at how big that transition is. After getting the nose down it was very
obvious that a 180 was out of the question. I turned 30 degrees left and
landed in a plowed field. But here's the point, if you lose your engine
after a normal takeoff roll and climbing to 500 feet, how much runway are
you going to have left to land on after making this 180? Not much.
Probably more ahead of you than behind. You can tell the guys, "Yep, I made
a 180 back to the airport." Probably be best to leave out the part about
running off the end of the runway. Now, put yourself in a Rocket or Pitts.
If you are making that co!
ol 3000 fpm climb and the engine decides to take a break there are
altitudes at which it is impossible to get the nose down, establish a glide
and land the airplane before hitting the ground, forget the 180 degree turn.
If you just cut off that thrust vector, things happen fast. Anyway, just
some more stuff to think about.
Rich Crosley
RV-8 N948RC
Rosamond, CA
Message 12
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|
| Subject: | Re: Floscan and IO/360 |
--> RV-List message posted by: Dwight Frye <dwight@openweave.org>
Since William requested the information I thought I'd float a post regarding
the suggested install location for the Floscan sensor. To give a little bit
of background, I attended the "Fuel Injection 101" class given by Airflow
Performance at their factory in Spartanburg, SC.
I'm going to inject a personal opinion here. If you don't want to read about
how much I enjoyed the FI-101 class, skip past this paragraph. :) The class
is great and is, in my opinion, a tremendous resource. If you are considering
installing FI in your plane and don't already have good knowledge about how
fuel injection works (particularly if you are installing an Airflow or Bendix
system!) I would very much recommend the class. Don Rivera teaches the bulk
of the class (though you spend time with his technicians as well getting to
run the fuel injection components on their diagnostic flow benches too!) and
communicates both the theory and practice of fuel injection in a way that
even *I* could understand. There is classroom time, hands-on lab time, hanger
time, and social time. Don and Colleen are great hosts .. and API is a small
friendly operation that really welcomes and educates folks at these classes.
The class is enthusiastically recommended. If you have any other questions
about my experience at the class last-weekend write me off-list as this is
already starting to sound too much like an ad for API.
Ok .... soapbox mode off .... other than to say I have NO affiliation with
Airflow Performance other than as a customer and student. :)
The easy location for installing the Floscan seems to be after the fuel
controller, but before the purge valve (or the flow divider, if you don't
use a purge valve). Regarding the recommendations to install the sensor
with certain minimum amounts of straight line in front/behind the unit and
the wires exiting strairht up ... my impression was that these constraints
should be met for those situations where you need EXTREMELY precice flow
measurements (like in a laboratory setting). For our applications that
extreme level of precision isn't going to add any significant value. Ease
of installation and servicing carries (for me, at least .. YMMV) more weight.
Therefore, as long as there is some (even relatively minimal) straight section
of tubing .. maybe even just a fittings-worth .. ahead of the Floscan it
has proven to operate just fine. The folks at API have seen (and performend)
a number of installations with these sorts of installation criteria and have
not seen any problems with the operation of the units. I'll be installing
mine as suggested ... after the fuel controller, and before my purge valve.
-- Dwight
On Sun Feb 26 22:49:27 2006, William Gill wrote :
>Hello Dwight,
>
>Please post information on the list regarding the Floscan location after
>your class.
>
>Best regards,
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Floscan and IO/360 |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Randy Lervold" <randy@romeolima.com>
> I'll be installing
> mine as suggested ... after the fuel controller, and before my purge
> valve.
> -- Dwight
Dwight,
Was anything said in the class about the fact that if you mount the sensor
this far downstream it will necessarily be mounted to the engine itself in
some manner and therefore subjected to significant vibration and heat? The
Floscan needs to be horizontal so that means it will likely be on top of the
cylinders somewhere near the flow divider.
I'll need to make a decision on where to mount mine in a few months. On my
last RV I mounted it behind the firewall and it worked very well.
Randy Lervold
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Floscan and IO/360 |
--> RV-List message posted by: Dwight Frye <dwight@openweave.org>
Randy,
Those issues were brought up (by me, in fact). I'm always cautious about
being conveying, second-hand, something someone else said. For that reason
rather than start this off by saying "Don said" .. I'll couch it more in
"what I understood was" type of language. There is always the possibility
that I mis-understood (and I would be happy to be corrected) so if you have
any concerns at all ... call API and ask them straight out.
So ... what I understood was that while Floscan tends to specify optimal
installation requirements (horizontal, wires facing up, with certain minimum
amounts of straight lines leading into and out of the unit) that in practice
there is a lot more flexibility in how they can be installed and still
perform. My understanding is that they have been successfully installed
vertically with a short straight fitting leading into the sensor and a
90-degree fitting leading immediately out hanging down between two cylinders.
This seems to be in opposition to virtually ALL the requirements I have
heard for Floscan installations .... but the units reportedly worked fine
and gave good service.
Note that the class didn't focus on issues like Floscan installation, and
this was a side-discussion with Don because I was particularly interested
in hearing what his experience had been with the units. I have been trying
to decide if I need to arrange for the installation of the sensor now (which
would require finding/making space in my cabin tunnel area as others have
done), or if I can put it off until firewall-forward time. The approach
suggested by API sure opens the door to a lot of flexibility ... though
clearly if you accommodate the optimal install (horizontal, wires up, long
runs fore/aft, etc.) then you CLEARLY can't be going wrong.
I guess it is an issue of comfort level since there is disagreement about
what is the minimum install requirements for the device. API has a lot of
engine experience, but it could be argued that Floscan knows their product
too. How to decide? Beats me. :) Don's real-world experience leads me to
feel confident in his opinion. But if you've not met Don and heard what he
has to say first-hand ... then I wouldn't blame you for coming to a totally
different opinion. (Wouldn't it be boring, though a good bit quieter, if we
all had identical opinions about things??)
-- Dwight
On Wed Mar 8 14:03:29 2006, Randy Lervold wrote :
>Dwight,
>
>Was anything said in the class about the fact that if you mount the sensor
>this far downstream it will necessarily be mounted to the engine itself in
>some manner and therefore subjected to significant vibration and heat? The
>Floscan needs to be horizontal so that means it will likely be on top of the
>cylinders somewhere near the flow divider.
>
>I'll need to make a decision on where to mount mine in a few months. On my
>last RV I mounted it behind the firewall and it worked very well.
>
>Randy Lervold
Message 15
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| Subject: | RV Builders Family Reunion at Oshkosh |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bob Collins" <bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net>
On the heels of last summer's very entertaining RV7/7A Builders Barbeque at
Oshkosh's AirVenture, Darwin Barrie and I have been kicking around a
modified version for 2006, including a dedicated section of the campground
for RV builders and fliers. Working with the EAA, it looks like we've
succeeded.
I've set up a Web site (well, it's the old Web site) with the basic
information. We'll be taking reservations shortly and I'll be working with
EAA to pull it off. The BBQ portion of this is still on and there'll be
further details on that, too, in the weeks to come.
Bob Collins
St. Paul, Minn.
http://home.comcast.net/~bcollinsrv7a/eaa/
Message 16
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|
| Subject: | cleaning out the shop |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Frazier, Vincent A" <VFrazier@usi.edu>
I have a monster rivet squeezer to sell. It will handle up to 3/16"
rivets. It is identical to the items below EXCEPT that it has a 12"
throat. Not a typo.... twelve inch throat depth, 2 1/2" tall.... it's
big.
http://www.vincesrocket.com/Miscellaneous.htm more details here. It's
a little dirty and blackened from age, but it isn't rusty or worn.
There is minor surface rust on the handles, but it is of no detriment.
With minor modification you could use this to squeeze RV spar rivets.
As is, it will do whatever heavy duty jobs you can fit in its throat.
First email back to my address vfrazier@usi.edu gets it. $250, shipping
included.
do not archive
Vince
For comparison and info:
http://www.aircraft-tool.com/shop/detail.aspx?PRODUCT_ID=3DDA-5&ReturnPage
=3D/shop/flyer.aspx?PageNo=3D1 5" reach, $349 plus shipping
http://roperwhitney.com/misc/2-24-1.cfm The manufacturers website for
the current models, which appear identical, except smaller throats.
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Floscan and IO/360 |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Don" <airflow2@bellsouth.net>
I'll chime in here. Dwight is correct in his assessment of the Flowscan installation.
Although the reason we don't like to install the device on the suction
side of the engine driven pump is the fact that the Flowscan has a fairly small
hole going into the transducer. By having this restriction on the suction
side of the engine driven fuel pump you are inviting possible vapor problems.
I know a lot of people have done it this way(mounted the Flowscan in the cabin),
but to me your rolling the dice. Also on carbureted installations you can
get away with some installation issues that you can't with fuel injection.
That said we have always mounted the Flowscan device after the fuel control (servo)
and before the flow divider. We always install AN816-4-4D fittings in the
inlet and outlet of the Flowscan. I have used a hose as short as 3" on the
inlet side (all straight fittings) and a hose with a full flow 90 degree fitting
on the outlet end. We have done some installations where the wires came out
horizontal. These installations all worked fine. The Flowscan is never mounted
directly to the engine, but hung between the hoses which are supported or
supported to the engine mount with Adel clamps. The trick here is to keep the
metered hose as short as possible. I have seen certified installations where
the Flowscan was mounted directly to the outlet fitting on the engine driven
pump or to the inlet fitting on the flow divider. I guess this works too but
not my choice. I haven't had any issues with heat on the Flowscan, typically
the transducer is protected with firesleeve after the installation is complete.
That's my take on the installation, if you have additional questions on this subject
you can contact me at airflow2@bellsouth.net.
Don
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=20442#20442
Message 18
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Fred Stucklen" <wstucklen1@cox.net>
I'm looking for a contact for an RV Builder in Toad River BC (CBK7
Mile422).
Does anyone know who this is? I'm traveling to Alaska this summer and
though
that I'd stop in....
Fred Stucklen
RV-6A N926RV
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Floscan and IO/360 |
--> RV-List message posted by: Dwight Frye <dwight@openweave.org>
I am glad you did chime in Don .. as it is better to get it straight from
the source than second-hand through me! It also is nice to know that I
was remembering the details I gave correctly. :)
I _knew_ there was another reason you didn't like the installation in the
cabin, but could not for the life of me remember why ... and since I could
not remember the details of that point, I decided to not say anything.
I had forgotten about the issue of the Floscan adding a restriction in
the feed line and causing pressure loss and because of that possible vapor
problems. Furthermore ... remembering the vapor pressure table reminds
me that when it comes to possible vaporization of fuel pressure (more,
rather than less) is your friend.
See, I did learn something (I hope!). :)
-- Dwight
do not archive ... as this is just a "me too" followup post ...
On Wed Mar 8 17:31:00 2006, Don wrote :
>I'll chime in here. Dwight is correct in his assessment of the Flowscan
>installation. [ ... snip ... ]
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Floscan and IO/360 |
--> RV-List message posted by: "William Gill" <wgill10@comcast.net>
Don,
Great information here and sounds like you have a lot of experience. I
would appreciate any pictures you might have concerning this
installation as well as from others that have done it this way. Thanks.
Best regards,
Bill Gill
RV-7 avionics & finish
Lee's Summit, MO
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 4:31 PM
Subject: RV-List: Re: Floscan and IO/360
--> RV-List message posted by: "Don" <airflow2@bellsouth.net>
I'll chime in here. Dwight is correct in his assessment of the Flowscan
installation. Although the reason we don't like to install the device
on the suction side of the engine driven pump is the fact that the
Flowscan has a fairly small hole going into the transducer. By having
this restriction on the suction side of the engine driven fuel pump you
are inviting possible vapor problems. I know a lot of people have done
it this way(mounted the Flowscan in the cabin), but to me your rolling
the dice. Also on carbureted installations you can get away with some
installation issues that you can't with fuel injection.
That said we have always mounted the Flowscan device after the fuel
control (servo) and before the flow divider. We always install
AN816-4-4D fittings in the inlet and outlet of the Flowscan. I have
used a hose as short as 3" on the inlet side (all straight fittings) and
a hose with a full flow 90 degree fitting on the outlet end. We have
done some installations where the wires came out horizontal. These
installations all worked fine. The Flowscan is never mounted directly
to the engine, but hung between the hoses which are supported or
supported to the engine mount with Adel clamps. The trick here is to
keep the metered hose as short as possible. I have seen certified
installations where the Flowscan was mounted directly to the outlet
fitting on the engine driven pump or to the inlet fitting on the flow
divider. I guess this works too but not my choice. I haven't had any
issues with heat on the Flowscan, typically the transducer is protected
with firesleeve after !
the installation is complete.
That's my take on the installation, if you have additional questions on
this subject you can contact me at airflow2@bellsouth.net.
Don
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=20442#20442
Message 21
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Ted on RV list" <ted_french@telus.net>
According to Transport canada web site, DAN CLEMENTS lives in Toad River
and flies an RV-6A reg no C-GDTC
Link is here:
http://www.tc.gc.ca/aviation/activepages/ccarcs/en/current_e.asp#quick?x_lan
g=e
Do Not Archive
Ted French
RV-10 fuselage
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Fred Stucklen
Sent: March 8, 2006 3:12 PM
Subject: RV-List: Alaska Trip
--> RV-List message posted by: "Fred Stucklen" <wstucklen1@cox.net>
I'm looking for a contact for an RV Builder in Toad River BC (CBK7
Mile422).
Does anyone know who this is? I'm traveling to Alaska this summer and
though
that I'd stop in....
Fred Stucklen
RV-6A N926RV
Message 22
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| Subject: | Minimum altitude to return to airport |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Todd Bartrim" <bartrim@gmail.com>
I've been resisting the urge to make a reply as I don't have the time to do
much more than lurk these days, but here goes....
I really appreciate the info and discussion on this topic as I too believe
there are no absolutes in this decision making process. I did most of my
flight training in my own RV9 with a good friend of mine as instructor. He
initially endlessly drilled into my head to always land straight ahead in
event of power failure on T/O, but as training progressed he began to throw
a few extra scenarios at me. The terrain in northern BC demands it. One
little grass strip that we practiced on has a deep ravine at the end of the
runway. Enough altitude and you can turn back or make it to the other side.
Not enough and your best hope was to turn and try to crash along the bottom.
Not very appealing.
But allot of thought has gone into a particular strip that I used to fly
out of (as a pax), when I was a hunting guide. 2000' grass with mountains on
3 sides and a glacial fed lake on the end. You always had to T/O over the
lake regardless of wind direction. This lake is very remote so possibility
of rescue from boaters is almost non-existent in case of a water landing.
Help from anywhere out there is unlikely. (kinda like in the movie "The
Edge"... lotsa grizz too!) Every trip I ever had out of there was in a fully
loaded C172 that seemed to use every available inch of runway before we
would struggle out over the lake for a few miles until we gained enough
altitude to safely fly through a mountain pass. Turning back there was
certainly not an option but all other alternatives were also extremely grim.
Fortunately it has never been an issue.
Time has been at a premium these last few years, preventing me from
returning there but as I'm currently just finishing up my 5th and final year
of tech school I expect to soon be resuming some of these activities, but
this time with my own plane. As my RV9 has far greater climb rate and uses
far less runway, I expect to have more options in case of emergency.
Everytime I fly out of there I will be expecting that engine to fail and
will include in my preflight the exact min. altitude required for a 180 back
to the strip or as close to it as possible.
If I keep my plane in top mechanical shape then hopefully it will never
happen, but it is an experimental plane with an experimental engine, so by
keeping myself in top physical and mental condition then god willing, I will
have the strength and skill to accomplish something that I would never do at
that perfect airport with a farmers field at the end of each runway (kinda
like my home field :-).
I have limited flight experience so I don't like to disagree with
experienced voices such as Doug, but I feel that everyone that fly's in
areas of rugged terrain should be aware of exactly how much altitude they
require to make a 180 and be mentally prepared for it at all times to reduce
the "oh s***" time lag, and the judgment to recognize that a straight in
approach is still better for most cases. But it's not absolute.
Todd Bartrim
Turbo 13B RV-9
> It's a rehash. We all know it's risky and we all know in most
> cases you'd be better off landing in that near mythically
> perfect field that's almost always mythically conveniently
> located right off the end of almost all airports in the world.
>
> Nobody ever takes off having to fly out over open water
> http://www.airnav.com/airport/KMCD
>
> and nobody ever has to take off right over the dense city
> http://www.airnav.com/airport/KVNY
>
> yep, there's just no reason to ever want to kill yourself turning
> back when you can sometimes just as easily kill yourself going
> straight ahead....
Message 23
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Ross" <dcr@fdltownhomes.com>
Guys: Looking for a Sensenich 72FM8S9-1 for an O-360A4K for sale before I
give up and order one from Vans. Thanks
Message 24
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|
| Subject: | Re: Trimming Engine Baffles to fit top cowling |
--> RV-List message posted by: Bobby Hester <bhester@hopkinsville.net>
I read this last night and today I spent 3 hrs. doing it. I'm getting
real close to having it done. Thanks!!! First time I heard of this method.
Surfing the Web from Hopkinsville, KY
Visit my web site at: http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/RVSite/
RV7A Slowbuild wings-QB Fuse-XPO360 engine :-)
Jerry Grimmonpre wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Jerry Grimmonpre" <jerry@mc.net>
>
>Joe ...
>Thanks for sharing your method with the list. I learned alot from your
>description.
>Jerry Grimmonpre'
>RV8A Electrical
>Do Not Archive
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Joe & Jan Connell" <jconnell@rconnect.com>
>To: "RV-List" <rv-list@matronics.com>
>Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 5:23 PM
>Subject: RV-List: Trimming Engine Baffles to fit top cowling
>
>
>
>
>>--> RV-List message posted by: "Joe & Jan Connell" <jconnell@rconnect.com>
>>
>>Fellow Builders,
>>
>>I've finally gotten the RV-9A/O-320 baffle parts trimmed to match the top
>>cowling and establish the baffle-to-cowling spacing. Trimming was easier
>>than I feared it would be.
>>
>>I made a one inch diameter "washer" or "wheel" out of aluminum and drilled
>>a
>>small hole in the center. (A one inch washer will give you a half inch
>>separation
>>between the cowl and baffle -- a 3/4 inch washer will give you a 3/8 inch
>>separation.) None of the baffle parts should be riveted together except
>>angle
>>brackets that attach to the ramp floors.
>>
>>I set the top cowling on top of the engine and it rested on the baffle
>>parts. (The
>>two forward bulkhead parts were left off as was the bottom cowling.) Put
>>the
>>"wheel" over the tip of a Sharpie marker. Lay the wheel against the rear
>>baffle
>>and push it up until it makes contact with the top cowling. Roll the
>>wheel against
>>the cowling while the pen transfers the shape of the cowl onto the baffle.
>>The
>>back cowling parts can be reached through the engine mount area. Do the
>>same
>>with the side baffles. You may need to cut the sharpie pen if it is too
>>long to work
>>with. I didn't have to although I have pretty big paws.
>>
>>Remove the top cowl and trim all the baffle parts where they have been
>>marked.
>>(You may need a vixen file to match file the adjacent baffle pieces.) I
>>went
>>through this routine about 4-5 times before the top cowl would fit
>>properly.
>>Once the top cowl settles into place and the hinges are secured, run the
>>wheel
>>one more time. The final pass will mark the final cowl-to-baffle spacing
>>depending
>>on what size washer you made. Install the two front bulkhead pieces. Use
>>the
>>same technique as above to mark, trim and re-fit. I was able to work
>>through the
>>inlets.
>>
>>I'm sure other builders have other ideas...
>>
>>
>>Joe Connell
>>Stewartville, MN
>>RV-9A N95JJ
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Aircraft for sale |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Richard Sipp" <rsipp@earthlink.net>
For those that might be in the market for an exceptional 4 or knowing someone interested
I have listed my RV4 in Trade-A-Plane.
Reason for sale: repeat offender building a 10.
Thanks for permitting the commercial.
Dick Sipp
RV4 N250DS
RV10 40065 N110DV reserved
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: annodized instrument panel? |
--> RV-List message posted by: sarg314 <sarg314@comcast.net>
I talked with an anodizing company today. They were well aware of
the tendency of sunlight to fade the dies. They said that if I request
it they could use an "architectural dye" which is much more stable.
Apparently anodized colored aluminum is being used in architecture
nowadays for decorative purposes. I think the architectural dye is much
more resistant to fading, but probably not completely resistant. The
sun is relentless.
They suggested that a further protection would be to have the thing
clear powder coated after it was anodized and laser engraved. I didn't
even know there was such a thing as clear powder coat. Another
suggestion was spray-on Krylon urethane clear coat. Since the plane
will be hangared (assuming I can ever find a hangar in this town), the
exposure to sunlight will be only during flying or parking at a distant
airport. So, I'm leaning towards going ahead with this.
--
Tom Sargent
RV-6A, engine.
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: annodized instrument panel? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
Consider that most of our "babies" are usually hangared- how many hours would
your panel be exposed to direct sunlight after X number of years? Is this
really an issue?
Mark do not archive
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: anodized instrument panel? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Vanremog@aol.com
In a message dated 3/8/2006 8:10:41 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
Fiveonepw@aol.com writes:
Consider that most of our "babies" are usually hangared- how many hours
would
your panel be exposed to direct sunlight after X number of years? Is this
really an issue?
==========================================
Yes and it doesn't take long for it to look really bogus. This is a known
problem with regard to anodizing dyes and IMO is a very strong argument for
powder coating, as these finishes are very color stable. The only down side to
powder coating is that it shouldn't be done where the corrosion resistance
of a chromate is indicated or where structural cracking might go unnoticed..
Why would anyone knowingly color anodize something that will be outdoors
when powder coating is so superior and readily available?
GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A, C/S, Flying 776hrs, Silicon Valley, CA)
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