Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:01 AM - Another RV-8 airborne (Ron Schreck)
2. 05:03 AM - Re: Another RV-8 airborne (Jeff Point)
3. 05:05 AM - Re: Another RV-8 airborne (Charles Rowbotham)
4. 05:42 AM - Re: Blended Airfoil 72" vs. 74" (I have the answer, kind-a) ()
5. 06:23 AM - Re: Blended Airfoil for 320 Lycoming Coming Soon (Darrell Reiley)
6. 06:27 AM - Supirior kit built IO-360 (charles heathco)
7. 07:14 AM - Re: Over-fluting (Folbrecht, Paul)
8. 07:53 AM - Re: Blended Airfoil 72" vs. 74" (LessDragProd@aol.com)
9. 09:30 AM - Re: Adding Glideslope (John Allen)
10. 09:56 AM - Re: Another RV-8 airborne (Jerry Grimmonpre)
11. 10:27 AM - Re: Another RV-8 airborne (Hopperdhh@aol.com)
12. 11:42 AM - Re: Blended Airfoil 72" vs. 74" (luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky))
13. 12:58 PM - Re: Blended Airfoil 72" vs. 74" (Mark E Navratil)
14. 06:50 PM - Re: Re: Blended Airfoil 72" vs. 74" (I have the answer, kind-a) (Dave Nellis)
15. 07:16 PM - EFIS Panel Pictures (Charles Rowbotham)
16. 07:57 PM - Re: Re: Blended Airfoil 72" vs. 74" (I have the answer, kind-a) (Vanremog@aol.com)
17. 11:26 PM - Re: Over-fluting (pcowper@webtv.net (Pete Cowper))
Message 1
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| Subject: | Another RV-8 airborne |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ron Schreck" <ronschreck@alltel.net>
Hi All,
The FAA finally showed up this morning, looked over my RV-8 and my
paperwork and bestowed upon me an Airworthiness Certificate for "Miss
Izzy". The guy was here for less than 20 minutes! He never got closer
than 4 feet from the airplane and scanned my 80-page test program in
less than 10 seconds! I wasn't counting on an inspection as I have had
two visits from EAA Tech Counselors and my friend and RV-8 owner, Jerry
Cornwell (AI) spent about 2 hours with a flashlight and mirror looking
over the plane this past Sunday.
The flight went without a hitch. The engine ran smooth, cool and
powerful. The EFIS and radios worked flawlessly and the plane flew
straight as an arrow. The only "correction" needed is a bit of right
rudder trim. I only flew for about 25 minutes, established a stall
buffet at 54 knots clean, 52 knots with half flaps and 49 knots with
full flaps. After a low pass of the airfield with the smoke system
billowing I touched down and did my best to suppress the cheesy RV grin.
It didn't work. I'm still grinning!
The plane has a Lycoming IO-360 built by Mattituck with Aerosport
fuel injection, dual Lightspeed electronic ignitions and a Whirlwind
200RV constant speed prop. The panel has dual GRT EFIS, SL-30 comm/nav,
Garmin 327 transponder, Trio autopilot with altitude hold. Interior is
by Flightline Interiors, belts from Hooker and paint is Imron applied in
my homemade paint booth.
I'll be tearing up the 50-mile radius around Gold Hill Airpark
(NC25) for the next 40 hours. Hope to have Phase I done in time for
Sun-N-Fun.
Thanks to Steve Glasgow for lending a third hand whenever needed and
providing lots of back seat time in his own RV-8. I'll be seeing you
all a bit more now that I have wings!
Ron Schreck
RV-8 #81589
Gold Hill Airpark, NC
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Another RV-8 airborne |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jeff Point <jpoint@mindspring.com>
Congratulations Ron! Today is, coincidentally, the two year anniversary
of my first flight and I still have that goofy grin, so get used to it.
Jeff Point
RV-6
Milwaukee
do not archive
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Another RV-8 airborne |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham@hotmail.com>
Hi Ron,
CONGRADULATIONS and WELL DONE !!!
Chuck & Dave Rowbotham
RV-8A
>From: "Ron Schreck" <ronschreck@alltel.net>
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Ron Schreck" <ronschreck@alltel.net>
>
> Hi All,
>
> > The flight went without a hitch. The engine ran smooth, cool and
>powerful. I'm still grinning!
> >Ron Schreck
>RV-8 #81589
>Gold Hill Airpark, NC
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Blended Airfoil 72" vs. 74" (I have the answer, kind-a) |
--> RV-List message posted by: <gmcjetpilot@yahoo.com>
I have the answer, I got it from Hartzell. Its prop
data on the HC-C2YK/F7666. It is similar but
it does show some trends based on dia.
The nod goes to.......
Climbing (slower speed) = 74"
Cruise, High speed & higher RPM = 72"
Bottom line
Low speeds 74"
Higher speeds 72"
When I say better, I mean one prop may be 1/8 th of
one percent better, to may be 1/2% to 1% more efficient
at best for a particular flight condition.
When I say efficency I don't mean performance.
You may throttle (rpm) back and get more prop efficency
but you get less thrust and thus less speed. In
general RPM is a big factor on efficency at cruise
speeds for any diameter. If you play to the 72" you
would climb at a faster speed. Efficency may increase
but rate of climb goes down. TINSTAAFL.
If you're a racer, want to go fast the 72" is better.
In climb at slower speeds the 74" prop is better.
The 72" seems to always enjoy a slight edge in cruise
and even more at higher speeds and RPMs. The 74"
seems to alwasy enjoy a slight edge in climb and even
more at slower speeds
Better means if you fly side by side at the same RPM
one plane may go 1/2 mph faster or climb 50 fpm
faster. Slight, not big differences, but differences.
What to buy? I like going fast but I like having the extra
2" of prop material. At least you have something to trim if
there is tip damage, but than if it was 2" smaller dia you
might not get the tip damage in the first place?
Sorry can't tell you what to do, but I am leaning to the 74"
for more rework material if it was me. The BA prop has the
extra 3.5 edge on the HC-C2YK any way, and about 3 mph
over the WW RV200 prop, so you can give 1/2 mph away
and enjoy that extra 50 fpm climb. :-)
Specific question email me off line. George
>From: "Jim Thorne"
>Subject: RV-List: Blended Airfoil 72" vs. 74"
>
>
>Does anyone have any information on pros and cons on choosing a
>72" vs. 74" Hartzell blended airfoil prop? Have searched archives and
>was unable to find any specific information relative to propeller diameter.
>
>Jim Thorne
>7A-QB CHD
---------------------------------
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Blended Airfoil for 320 Lycoming Coming Soon |
--> RV-List message posted by: Darrell Reiley <lifeofreiley2003@yahoo.com>
FYI,
For all the builders using 320 Lycomings the blended airfoil prop is less than
a year away they say...
Darrell
"Bob C. " <flyboy.bob@gmail.com> wrote:
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bob C. "
I also asked Van's the same question re: my RV-8 with O-360 clone . . . the
person I talked to recommended the 72" version . . . I really don't think
there is a world of difference?!
Bob in SE-Iowa
RV-8 - Finishing Slowly!!
On 3/15/06, Jim Thorne wrote:
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Thorne"
>
> Does anyone have any information on pros and cons on choosing a 72" vs.
> 74" Hartzell blended airfoil prop? Have searched archives and was unable to
> find any specific information relative to propeller diameter.
>
> Jim Thorne
> 7A-QB CHD
>
>
---------------------------------
Brings words and photos together (easily) with
Message 6
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| Subject: | Supirior kit built IO-360 |
--> RV-List message posted by: "charles heathco" <cheathco@junct.com>
I see that Superior has been taken ove by the German Co, Theilert, and wondered
who on the list has built and is using one of the Sup 360 engines?? Charles Heathco
Message 7
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Folbrecht, Paul" <PFolbrecht@starkinvestments.com>
Thanks for all the responses on the fluting issue! Mainly I was
concerned about fatiguing the metal. It was indeed easy to un-flute
using the seamer.
Paul
9A QB #1176
HS & VS done, working on rudder
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Nellis
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 6:56 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Over-fluting
--> RV-List message posted by: Dave Nellis <truflite@yahoo.com>
Turn the fluting pliers over putting the center node
exactly on the center of the flute it created. Gently
squeeze till the reverse bend is gone.
Dave
--- "Folbrecht, Paul"
<PFolbrecht@starkinvestments.com> wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Folbrecht, Paul"
> <PFolbrecht@starkinvestments.com>
>
> Is there really any way to undo over-fluting of a
> rib?
>
>
>
> My fluting was going well until I got to R-903 -
> long, skinny rudder
> rib. I over-did it and it's now bowed the other
> way. Drat. I figure
> anything that could be done now would probably
> result in fatigued metal
> anyway.
>
>
>
> Paul
>
> 9A QB 1176
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
>
> Admin.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Blended Airfoil 72" vs. 74" |
--> RV-List message posted by: LessDragProd@aol.com
The difference may be more than performance.
The 72" diameter is the minimum diameter of the Hartzell propeller. Damage
the tips on a 72" diameter Hartzell, and the complete propeller is scrap.
If the 74" diameter blades are damaged, and can be trimmed to a 72"
diameter, or greater, then the blades would be useable. Unfortunately, the hub
is
still scrapped.
Regards,
Jim Ayers
In a message dated 03/15/2006 6:53:42 PM Pacific Standard Time,
flyboy.bob@gmail.com writes:
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bob C. " <flyboy.bob@gmail.com>
I also asked Van's the same question re: my RV-8 with O-360 clone . . . the
person I talked to recommended the 72" version . . . I really don't think
there is a world of difference?!
Bob in SE-Iowa
RV-8 - Finishing Slowly!!
Message 9
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| Subject: | re: Adding Glideslope |
CC:
--> RV-List message posted by: John Allen <fliier@altrionet.com>
Jeff,=0D=0A=0D=0AI'm working on a similar issue. I'm adding a KN-73 and a KI-209
to my KX-125. I'm afraid I don't have the documents yet either, but I do have
some questions.=0D=0A=0D=0AWhen you hooked the KX-125 up to the HSI, did you
lose any functionality in the KX-125. Are you still able to get a digital
bearing from the VOR while simultaneously driving the CDI in the HSI. You can
respond to me off-list if you'd like at fliier@altrionet.com=0D=0A=0D=0ABTW,
the avionics guy told me that the KN-73 will have to be "tuned" once it is integrated
into the system. Apparently that is not true of the newer KN-75. I bought
the GS Receiver some time ago so I'm going down that path, but if you haven't.
. .=0D=0A=0D=0AThanks,=0D=0A=0D=0AJohn Allen=0D=0ARV-6A=0D=0A=0D=0ADo Not
Archive=0D=0A************=0D=0AFrom: Jeff Bertsch =0D=0A=0D=0A--> RV-List message
posted by: Jeff Bertsch =0D=0A=0D=0AI am adding a KN-73 to provide glideslope
info to my KX-125 and Century HSI (NSD=0D=0A1000). . .
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Another RV-8 airborne |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jerry Grimmonpre" <jerry@mc.net>
Congrats Ron ...
It sounds like you built it right when it flies that straight. I'm doing
the 8 as well and with the same panel. Do you have pics of your panel? It
would be good to see how all of your panel goodies fit into the panel space.
Thanks ...
Jerry Grimmonpre'
RV8A Electrical
jerry@mc.net
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Schreck" <ronschreck@alltel.net>
Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 2:47 AM
Subject: RV-List: Another RV-8 airborne
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Ron Schreck" <ronschreck@alltel.net>
>
> Hi All,
>
> The FAA finally showed up this morning, looked over my RV-8 and my
> paperwork and bestowed upon me an Airworthiness Certificate for "Miss
> Izzy". The guy was here for less than 20 minutes! He never got closer
> than 4 feet from the airplane and scanned my 80-page test program in
> less than 10 seconds! I wasn't counting on an inspection as I have had
> two visits from EAA Tech Counselors and my friend and RV-8 owner, Jerry
> Cornwell (AI) spent about 2 hours with a flashlight and mirror looking
> over the plane this past Sunday.
> The flight went without a hitch. The engine ran smooth, cool and
> powerful. The EFIS and radios worked flawlessly and the plane flew
> straight as an arrow. The only "correction" needed is a bit of right
> rudder trim. I only flew for about 25 minutes, established a stall
> buffet at 54 knots clean, 52 knots with half flaps and 49 knots with
> full flaps. After a low pass of the airfield with the smoke system
> billowing I touched down and did my best to suppress the cheesy RV grin.
> It didn't work. I'm still grinning!
> The plane has a Lycoming IO-360 built by Mattituck with Aerosport
> fuel injection, dual Lightspeed electronic ignitions and a Whirlwind
> 200RV constant speed prop. The panel has dual GRT EFIS, SL-30 comm/nav,
> Garmin 327 transponder, Trio autopilot with altitude hold. Interior is
> by Flightline Interiors, belts from Hooker and paint is Imron applied in
> my homemade paint booth.
> I'll be tearing up the 50-mile radius around Gold Hill Airpark
> (NC25) for the next 40 hours. Hope to have Phase I done in time for
> Sun-N-Fun.
> Thanks to Steve Glasgow for lending a third hand whenever needed and
> providing lots of back seat time in his own RV-8. I'll be seeing you
> all a bit more now that I have wings!
>
> Ron Schreck
> RV-8 #81589
> Gold Hill Airpark, NC
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Another RV-8 airborne |
--> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com
In a message dated 3/16/2006 5:03:10 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
ronschreck@alltel.net writes:
I'll be tearing up the 50-mile radius around Gold Hill Airpark
(NC25) for the next 40 hours. Hope to have Phase I done in time for
Sun-N-Fun.
Thanks to Steve Glasgow for lending a third hand whenever needed and
providing lots of back seat time in his own RV-8. I'll be seeing you
all a bit more now that I have wings!
Ron Schreck
RV-8 #81589
Gold Hill Airpark, NC
Great job Ron. 40 hours in 2 weeks is almost a full time job! I went
through that back in July '04 before OSH but only for 25 hours! Wow -- 40 hours
-- you probably won't have time to read this! Is that 50 mile diameter or
radius? Mine was 25 NM radius.
Fly safe.
do not archive
Dan Hopper
Walton, IN
RV-7A 144 hours
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Blended Airfoil 72" vs. 74" |
--> RV-List message posted by: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky)
That's what Hartzell told me when I called them directly and so I ordered a 74"
prop as well.
-------------- Original message --------------
From: LessDragProd@aol.com
> --> RV-List message posted by: LessDragProd@aol.com
>
>
> The difference may be more than performance.
>
> The 72" diameter is the minimum diameter of the Hartzell propeller. Damage
> the tips on a 72" diameter Hartzell, and the complete propeller is scrap.
>
> If the 74" diameter blades are damaged, and can be trimmed to a 72"
> diameter, or greater, then the blades would be useable. Unfortunately, the hub
> is
> still scrapped.
>
> Regards,
> Jim Ayers
>
> In a message dated 03/15/2006 6:53:42 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> flyboy.bob@gmail.com writes:
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Bob C. "
>
> I also asked Van's the same question re: my RV-8 with O-360 clone . . . the
> person I talked to recommended the 72" version . . . I really don't think
> there is a world of difference?!
>
> Bob in SE-Iowa
> RV-8 - Finishing Slowly!!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
That's what Hartzell told me when I called them directly and so I ordered a 74"
prop as well.
-------------- Original message --------------
From: LessDragProd@aol.com
-- RV-List message posted by: LessDragProd@aol.com
The difference may be more than performance.
The 72" diameter is the minimum diameter of the Hartzell propeller. Damage
the tips on a 72" diameter Hartzell, and the complete propeller is scrap.
If the 74" diameter blades are damaged, and can be trimmed to a 72"
diameter, or greater, then the blades would be useable. Unfortunately, the hub
is
still scrapped.
Regards,
Jim Ayers
In a message dated 03/15/2006 6:53:42 PM Pacific Standard Time,
flyboy.bob@gmail.com writes:
-- RV-List message posted by: "Bob C. " <FLYBOY.BOB@GMAIL.COM>
I also asked Van's the same q
uestion re: my RV-8 with O-360 clone . . . the
person I talked to recommended the 72" version . . . I really don't think
there is a world of difference?!
Bob in SE-Iowa
RV-8 - Finishing Slowly!!
onics.com/contribution
Message 13
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Cc: rv7a@cox.net
| Subject: | Re: Blended Airfoil 72" vs. 74" |
--> RV-List message posted by: Mark E Navratil <czechsix@juno.com>
Hi Jim,
The general laws of aerodynamics say that the larger diameter will give
better low speed thrust and the smaller diameter will be better for high
speed flight. This may not hold true depending on how Hartzell shaped
the blades, but all other things being equal it should work this way.
Whether there's a measurable difference between these two diameters is
arguable. I got the 74" in part because it allows you to cut off 1" of
each tip in case of damage and still be airworthy. Of course it might be
more likely to get damaged if it's longer to begin with so this may be a
toss-up.
If I had to do it over, I'd be inclined to go with the smaller diameter
because during full power runups to set the low-pitch stop, my 74" prop
sucked up a lot of sand and now the paint looks like crap on the leading
edges. It's pretty close to the ground on the nosedraggers and 1" might
make a measurable difference in how much trash your prop picks up on the
ground.
Or just flip a coin and pick one : )
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D 11.3 hours flying...
------------------------------------------------------
Time: 11:11:54 AM PST US
From: "Jim Thorne" <rv7a@cox.net>
Subject: RV-List: Blended Airfoil 72" vs. 74"
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Thorne" <rv7a@cox.net>
Does anyone have any information on pros and cons on choosing a 72" vs.
74" Hartzell
blended airfoil prop? Have searched archives and was unable to find any
specific information relative to propeller diameter.
Jim Thorne
7A-QB CHD
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Blended Airfoil 72" vs. 74" (I have the answer, kind-a) |
--> RV-List message posted by: Dave Nellis <truflite@yahoo.com>
George,
I know a lot of alphabets, i.e. ATC,IFR, and so forth,
but what is TINSTAAFL?
Dave
--- gmcjetpilot@yahoo.com wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by:
> <gmcjetpilot@yahoo.com>
>
> I have the answer, I got it from Hartzell. Its prop
> data on the HC-C2YK/F7666. It is similar but
> it does show some trends based on dia.
>
> The nod goes to.......
> Climbing (slower speed) = 74"
> Cruise, High speed & higher RPM = 72"
>
> Bottom line
> Low speeds 74"
> Higher speeds 72"
>
>
> When I say better, I mean one prop may be 1/8 th
> of
> one percent better, to may be 1/2% to 1% more
> efficient
> at best for a particular flight condition.
>
> When I say efficency I don't mean performance.
> You may throttle (rpm) back and get more prop
> efficency
> but you get less thrust and thus less speed. In
> general RPM is a big factor on efficency at cruise
>
> speeds for any diameter. If you play to the 72"
> you
> would climb at a faster speed. Efficency may
> increase
> but rate of climb goes down. TINSTAAFL.
>
> If you're a racer, want to go fast the 72" is
> better.
> In climb at slower speeds the 74" prop is better.
>
> The 72" seems to always enjoy a slight edge in
> cruise
> and even more at higher speeds and RPMs. The 74"
> seems to alwasy enjoy a slight edge in climb and
> even
> more at slower speeds
>
> Better means if you fly side by side at the same
> RPM
> one plane may go 1/2 mph faster or climb 50 fpm
> faster. Slight, not big differences, but
> differences.
>
>
> What to buy? I like going fast but I like having
> the extra
> 2" of prop material. At least you have something
> to trim if
> there is tip damage, but than if it was 2" smaller
> dia you
> might not get the tip damage in the first place?
>
> Sorry can't tell you what to do, but I am leaning
> to the 74"
> for more rework material if it was me. The BA prop
> has the
> extra 3.5 edge on the HC-C2YK any way, and about 3
> mph
> over the WW RV200 prop, so you can give 1/2 mph
> away
> and enjoy that extra 50 fpm climb. :-)
>
> Specific question email me off line. George
>
>
>
> >From: "Jim Thorne"
> >Subject: RV-List: Blended Airfoil 72" vs. 74"
> >
> >
> >Does anyone have any information on pros and cons
> on choosing a
> >72" vs. 74" Hartzell blended airfoil prop? Have
> searched archives and
> >was unable to find any specific information
> relative to propeller diameter.
> >
> >Jim Thorne
> >7A-QB CHD
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
>
> Admin.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | EFIS Panel Pictures |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham@hotmail.com>
I'm updating my presentation on Panel and Cockpit Design and could use a few
pictures of EFIS panels. If you're willing to share pictures of your EFIS
panels, either full or partial, please email me directly at >>
crowbotham@hotmail.com.
Thanks,
Chuck Rowbotham
RV-8A
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Blended Airfoil 72" vs. 74" (I have the answer, kind-a) |
--> RV-List message posted by: Vanremog@aol.com
In a message dated 3/16/2006 6:53:52 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
truflite@yahoo.com writes:
I know a lot of alphabets, i.e. ATC,IFR, and so forth,
but what is TINSTAAFL?
=============================
There is no such thing as a free lunch.
GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A, C/S, Flying 777hrs, Silicon Valley, CA)
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Over-fluting |
--> RV-List message posted by: pcowper@webtv.net (Pete Cowper)
A tip to avoid over fluting is to lay the rib flat on the worktable
after marking each fluting location and kneel down so your eyes are at
table level looking under the rib toward the light from the open door.
As you squeeze the fluting pliers you will see the rib sink down to the
flat tabletop and the light coming under the bowed rib will disappear as
it flattens out. Just gently move around the rib deepening some flutes
until no light comes underneath the now straightened (flattened) rib.
Pete Cowper
RV8 #81139
Hanger B-5
Visalia Municipal Airport
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