Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:39 AM - Re: RV Elevator Counterweight question (Kevin Horton)
2. 03:16 AM - Re: keep the wieght off Nosewheel ()
3. 04:53 AM - Re: RV Elevator Counterweight question (Rick Galati)
4. 04:55 AM - Titeseal (EXT-Allen, David)
5. 05:40 AM - Re: Spouse afraid to fly (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
6. 06:36 AM - Re: Re: RV Elevator Counterweight question (Frank Stringham)
7. 06:51 AM - Re: Re: RV Elevator Counterweight question (Frank Stringham)
8. 07:10 AM - Re: RV Elevator Counterweight question (linn Walters)
9. 07:16 AM - Re: Rudder Trailing Edge Countersinking (Sherman Butler)
10. 07:58 AM - Re: Rudder Trailing Edge CountersinkingRudder Trailing Edge CountersinkingRudder Trailing Edge Countersinking (Jim Anglin)
11. 08:32 AM - Re: RV Elevator Counterweight question (Kevin Horton)
12. 10:49 AM - Re: Re: Spouse afraid to fly (Mark Grieve)
13. 12:44 PM - RV-12 question (Chris W)
14. 01:06 PM - Re: RV-12 question (Bob C.)
15. 01:17 PM - Re: RV-12 question (John Jessen)
16. 01:31 PM - Re: RV-12 question (Terry Williams)
17. 01:31 PM - Re: RV-12 question (Folbrecht, Paul)
18. 02:48 PM - Re: RV-12 question (linn Walters)
19. 03:04 PM - Re: RV-12 question (JOHN STARN)
20. 04:06 PM - Re: RV-12 question (Fly n Low)
21. 04:51 PM - Re: RV Elevator Counterweight question (13brv3)
22. 05:07 PM - Re: RV-12 question (John Huft)
23. 05:47 PM - Re: Re: RV Elevator Counterweight question (Kevin Horton)
24. 06:01 PM - Re: RV-12 question (Robin Marks)
25. 07:13 PM - Re: Re: RV Elevator Counterweight question (scott bilinski)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: RV Elevator Counterweight question |
--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
If this is the one where one of the YF-22s piloted by Tom Morganfeld
pancaked into the runway after a touch and go (or was it a low
approach?), then that was not caused by flutter. It was a problem
with the fly-by-wire pitch control gains that triggered a pilot
induced oscillation.
Flutter produces much faster control surface movements, and it often
leads to control surface failure in a few seconds. Flutter would be
much, much worse than what was seen in that video.
Kevin
On 22 Mar 2006, at 21:59, Chuck wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Chuck <chuck515tigger@yahoo.com>
>
> Linn,
>
> I've seen the video, it's humorous unless of course you were in
> the pilot's seat. Thanks for the analogy.
>
> Chuck
>
> linn Walters <pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: linn Walters
>
>
> Chuck wrote:
>
>> --> RV-List message posted by: Chuck
>>
>> This brings up a recent conversation on the requirement of even
>> putting on Counterweights for the elevators.
>>
>> Any comments on the purpose(s), usefulness, or results of not
>> utilizing counterweights ? Inquiring minds want to know.
>>
>>
>> Do Not Archive
>>
> Well Chuck, lemme try to answer, in order:
> Purpose: A balanced control surface is less prone to flutter at a
> given
> airspeed.
> Usefulness: I'd say high. You don't want to deal with flutter, or it's
> aftermath. A very good video of a stealth fighter experiencing
> flaperon
> flutter is out there somewhere on the web. Watch it.
> Results of not using counterweights: If there is a camera pointing
> your
> way at that particular moment, you'll have documentation just like the
> Stealth fighter mentioned above. You, however, do not have an ejection
> seat!
> Linn
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: RV-List:keep the wieght off Nosewheel |
--> RV-List message posted by: <jmsears@adelphia.net>
> Keep the weight off the nose wheel as much as possible it's not made to
take
> it. Saw a 6A with chevy v6 fold nose gear over last week end.
The nose gears on Van's designs can take quite a beating and keep doing
their jobs. I still have the original smaller diameter nose gear on my
RV-6A and haven't seen any cracks in it, yet. I also land on a grass strip,
quite often. I know the nose gear takes a beating, even though I try to
keep the nose gear light. Since I'm far from being the perfect pilot, I'm
sure the nose gear on mine has had to perform well, at times. :-)
No nose gear can take the punishment that some of us put them through. I've
seen nose gears damaged in Cessnas when pilots tried driving the nose gear
into the ground at landing. It's not a pretty sight and is costly to
repair. I've also seen the results of a bad landing in a RV-6A. That, too,
was costly to repair. In each case, it was the pilot at fault, not the
design.
The Grummans-Americans were touted as having weak nose gears, as well. I
almost didn't buy one because of the stories my friends told me about them;
but, I finally decided to ignore them and bought one, anyway. However, I
must admit that mine had been damaged some time in the past, which supported
their stories. I found the nose gear on my GA AA-5A Cheetah to be more than
adequate. I never had a problem with the nose gear in the nine years I
owned the airplane. A friend of mine bought it when I started flying
Scooter. He and his partner had no problems with it, either; but, the guy
who bought his two place TR-2 tore out the nose gear almost as soon as he
got it home. Since the TR-2 had a lot of time on it with no gear damage,
I'd say it was the pilot's lack of experience in that type aircraft that did
it in. Guess what. Our RVs are almost identical in size to those little
fellas. :-)
If one uses the proper techniques for landing any nose geared airplane, I
believe one will have no more problems with a RV landing gear than with any
other. It's a lot stouter looking than some of nose gears I've seen on
other experimentals. Some I wouldn't consider landing on grass because they
look so weak. Heck, some look so weak I'd be afraid to land them on a hard
surface! :-(
Jim Sears in KY
RV-6A N198JS (Scooter)
EAA Tech Counselor
do not archive
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: RV Elevator Counterweight question |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Rick Galati" <rick6a@yahoo.com>
Dave,
With this simple modification, you can easily and precisely adjust the elevator's
counterbalanced weight to accomodate any current or future balancing requirements
such as might be confronted after the application of paint.
I did this on my -8 empennage kit and hopefully is of the same general design as
your -7. What I did was install a 1/4" nutplate through the forward tooling
hole on the outboard rib and by simply stacking a combination of area washers
though a bolt on the opposite side of that rib, precise balancing is quickly
adjusted.
http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/5788/img0010500io.jpg
http://img61.imageshack.us/img61/7093/img0011506ek.jpg
Rick Galati RV-6A "Darla"
>
> David Karlsberg wrote:
>
>
> So, I am working on the Right elevator. After carefully studying the
> pictures I trimmed the counterweight as shown on the plans (E-714 Trim
> Detail). The part remaining is 5/8th (like the picture shows). After
> reading it again I think I was supposed to do this when balancing it. Is it
> okay I did it now? Or will my weight be too light? If so, do I need to buy
> a new weight or can I do something to fix this? I don't think I will just
> be able to slide a new weight in there cause the skin that goes over it fits
> real tight and when it will be dimpled it might be really hard to slide this
> one out.
>
> Let me know.
>
> Thanks,
> David Karlsberg
> RV-7
> Beverly hills CA
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=23664#23664
Message 4
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--> RV-List message posted by: "EXT-Allen, David" <david.allen@boeing.com>
I did a google on 'titeseal' and got a hit for Aircraft Spruce.
Dave Allen
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Spouse afraid to fly |
--> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
In a message dated 3/23/06 12:43:54 AM Central Standard Time,
noms1reqd@yahoo.com writes:
> There is one feature that an airplane must have before she'll fly in it.
> Can you guess what it is? Two engines? A parachute?
>
>
>>>>
For mine, it's an aisle big enough for a well-stocked beverage cart to haul
the "get me back on the ground ASAP!" medication...
Mark - do not archive
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: RV Elevator Counterweight question |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Frank Stringham" <fstringham@hotmail.com>
Rick
Great idea. Any ideas out there on how to accomplish this as a retro fit on
a completed elevator.
Frank @ SGU and SLC
>From: "Rick Galati" <rick6a@yahoo.com>
>To: rv-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: Re: RV Elevator Counterweight question
>Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 04:47:59 -0800
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Rick Galati" <rick6a@yahoo.com>
>
>Dave,
>
>With this simple modification, you can easily and precisely adjust the
>elevator's counterbalanced weight to accomodate any current or future
>balancing requirements such as might be confronted after the application of
>paint.
>I did this on my -8 empennage kit and hopefully is of the same general
>design as your -7. What I did was install a 1/4" nutplate through the
>forward tooling hole on the outboard rib and by simply stacking a
>combination of area washers though a bolt on the opposite side of that rib,
>precise balancing is quickly adjusted.
>
>http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/5788/img0010500io.jpg
>http://img61.imageshack.us/img61/7093/img0011506ek.jpg
>
>Rick Galati RV-6A "Darla"
>
>
> >
> > David Karlsberg wrote:
> >
> >
> > So, I am working on the Right elevator. After carefully studying the
> > pictures I trimmed the counterweight as shown on the plans (E-714 Trim
> > Detail). The part remaining is 5/8th (like the picture shows). After
> > reading it again I think I was supposed to do this when balancing it. Is
>it
> > okay I did it now? Or will my weight be too light? If so, do I need to
>buy
> > a new weight or can I do something to fix this? I don't think I will
>just
> > be able to slide a new weight in there cause the skin that goes over it
>fits
> > real tight and when it will be dimpled it might be really hard to slide
>this
> > one out.
> >
> > Let me know.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > David Karlsberg
> > RV-7
> > Beverly hills CA
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=23664#23664
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: RV Elevator Counterweight question |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Frank Stringham" <fstringham@hotmail.com>
Frank
Dah ....... look at the ....... elevator before you use up these people's
good time.............
Rick again thanks for this great idea
Frank @ sgu and SLC
DO NOT ARCHIVE
>From: "Rick Galati" <rick6a@yahoo.com>
>To: rv-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: Re: RV Elevator Counterweight question
>Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 04:47:59 -0800
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Rick Galati" <rick6a@yahoo.com>
>
>Dave,
>
>With this simple modification, you can easily and precisely adjust the
>elevator's counterbalanced weight to accomodate any current or future
>balancing requirements such as might be confronted after the application of
>paint.
>I did this on my -8 empennage kit and hopefully is of the same general
>design as your -7. What I did was install a 1/4" nutplate through the
>forward tooling hole on the outboard rib and by simply stacking a
>combination of area washers though a bolt on the opposite side of that rib,
>precise balancing is quickly adjusted.
>
>http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/5788/img0010500io.jpg
>http://img61.imageshack.us/img61/7093/img0011506ek.jpg
>
>Rick Galati RV-6A "Darla"
>
>
> >
> > David Karlsberg wrote:
> >
> >
> > So, I am working on the Right elevator. After carefully studying the
> > pictures I trimmed the counterweight as shown on the plans (E-714 Trim
> > Detail). The part remaining is 5/8th (like the picture shows). After
> > reading it again I think I was supposed to do this when balancing it. Is
>it
> > okay I did it now? Or will my weight be too light? If so, do I need to
>buy
> > a new weight or can I do something to fix this? I don't think I will
>just
> > be able to slide a new weight in there cause the skin that goes over it
>fits
> > real tight and when it will be dimpled it might be really hard to slide
>this
> > one out.
> >
> > Let me know.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > David Karlsberg
> > RV-7
> > Beverly hills CA
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=23664#23664
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: RV Elevator Counterweight question |
--> RV-List message posted by: linn Walters <pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net>
No, it was the F-117 stealth fighter that self destructed in front of an
airshow crowd in the departing high speed pass. The problem was some
missing bolts in the outboard hinge attach fitting. The outboard wing
section removed itself from the airplane. Fortunately, noone was hurt
with the exception of the airplane. In the video, the airplane just
'explodes' (no fire 'till it hit the ground) and immediately goes
catty-wampus (highly technical term, like 'flutter') and a few seconds
later, the pilot ejects safely. The only problem is .... we can't do
that!!!
Linn
Kevin Horton wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
>
>If this is the one where one of the YF-22s piloted by Tom Morganfeld
>pancaked into the runway after a touch and go (or was it a low
>approach?), then that was not caused by flutter. It was a problem
>with the fly-by-wire pitch control gains that triggered a pilot
>induced oscillation.
>
>Flutter produces much faster control surface movements, and it often
>leads to control surface failure in a few seconds. Flutter would be
>much, much worse than what was seen in that video.
>
>Kevin
>
>On 22 Mar 2006, at 21:59, Chuck wrote:
>
>
>
>>--> RV-List message posted by: Chuck <chuck515tigger@yahoo.com>
>>
>>Linn,
>>
>> I've seen the video, it's humorous unless of course you were in
>>the pilot's seat. Thanks for the analogy.
>>
>> Chuck
>>
>>linn Walters <pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>> --> RV-List message posted by: linn Walters
>>
>>
>>Chuck wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>--> RV-List message posted by: Chuck
>>>
>>>This brings up a recent conversation on the requirement of even
>>>putting on Counterweights for the elevators.
>>>
>>>Any comments on the purpose(s), usefulness, or results of not
>>>utilizing counterweights ? Inquiring minds want to know.
>>>
>>>
>>>Do Not Archive
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>Well Chuck, lemme try to answer, in order:
>>Purpose: A balanced control surface is less prone to flutter at a
>>given
>>airspeed.
>>Usefulness: I'd say high. You don't want to deal with flutter, or it's
>>aftermath. A very good video of a stealth fighter experiencing
>>flaperon
>>flutter is out there somewhere on the web. Watch it.
>>Results of not using counterweights: If there is a camera pointing
>>your
>>way at that particular moment, you'll have documentation just like the
>>Stealth fighter mentioned above. You, however, do not have an ejection
>>seat!
>>Linn
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Rudder Trailing Edge Countersinking |
--> RV-List message posted by: Sherman Butler <lsbrv7a@yahoo.com>
Last night I successfully riveted the trailing edge of the rudder using the hand
ground angled rivet set.
I glued the edges together with 3M 5200 Marine adhesive (white alcohol clean-up)
5 days ago, and clecoed the rudder to an aluminum angle. I inserted rivets
in alternate holes, clamped the aluminum angle with side grips to keep the edges
straight and act as a back-up bar, and hand squeezed the rivets with a straight
rivet set until the set just touched the rudder skin. This squeezed 4 layers
of metal. I then finished the squeeze with the angled set using the same
setting pressure for all the rivets. A straight set was in contact with the
factory head and all the angle was placed on the shop head.
I inserted the second half of the rivets facing the opposite direction and stood
the rudder with the trailing edge up. I the squeezed these rivets with the
angled set in one squeeze. The rivets set straight and did not buckle to the
side as the pressure was straight on the rivet axis. The trailing edge is straight,
and only took about an hour start to finish..
My thoughts are: Gluing the trailing edge with a straight edge helps maintaining
alignment. I suspect the secret to maintain a straight edge is uniform rivet
pressure (harder to do with driven rivets, at least with my skill level).
I am now wondering if using a universal set would work as well leaving a rounded
head in the dimple. If I had a 3/32 universal set I would have tried one
to see.
This is becoming more fun actually finishing components!!
Sherman Butler
RV-7a Empennage
Idaho Falls
---------------------------------
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Rudder Trailing Edge CountersinkingRudder Trailing Edge CountersinkingRudder |
Trailing Edge Countersinking
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Anglin" <n144hr@earthlink.net>
Paul -
Before I lost any sleep about having sharp edges in a rivet hole I would take a
look in any hole you countersink. There are sharp edges in all of them. If
you are really concerned about the structural aspect more so than aesthetics then
just c'sink one side and leave the shop heads on the other. After you paint
it they will virtually disappear.
Jim Anglin
HR II N144HR
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: RV Elevator Counterweight question |
--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
OK. That type of quick disintegration is the typical result of
flutter. Everything will go from OK to the aircraft shedding large
pieces before the pilot has time to say "S..t". In some less severe
cases the magnitude of the oscillation may self-limit, and the
aircraft won't come apart. But you have to assume that any flutter
will lead to a a fatal accident.
Flutter is nasty.
Kevin Horton
On 23 Mar 2006, at 13:08, linn Walters wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: linn Walters
> <pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net>
>
> No, it was the F-117 stealth fighter that self destructed in front
> of an
> airshow crowd in the departing high speed pass. The problem was some
> missing bolts in the outboard hinge attach fitting. The outboard wing
> section removed itself from the airplane. Fortunately, noone was hurt
> with the exception of the airplane. In the video, the airplane just
> 'explodes' (no fire 'till it hit the ground) and immediately goes
> catty-wampus (highly technical term, like 'flutter') and a few seconds
> later, the pilot ejects safely. The only problem is .... we can't do
> that!!!
> Linn
>
>
> Kevin Horton wrote:
>
>> --> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
>>
>> If this is the one where one of the YF-22s piloted by Tom Morganfeld
>> pancaked into the runway after a touch and go (or was it a low
>> approach?), then that was not caused by flutter. It was a problem
>> with the fly-by-wire pitch control gains that triggered a pilot
>> induced oscillation.
>>
>> Flutter produces much faster control surface movements, and it often
>> leads to control surface failure in a few seconds. Flutter would be
>> much, much worse than what was seen in that video.
>>
>> Kevin
>>
>> On 22 Mar 2006, at 21:59, Chuck wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> --> RV-List message posted by: Chuck <chuck515tigger@yahoo.com>
>>>
>>> Linn,
>>>
>>> I've seen the video, it's humorous unless of course you were in
>>> the pilot's seat. Thanks for the analogy.
>>>
>>> Chuck
>>>
>>> linn Walters <pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>>> --> RV-List message posted by: linn Walters
>>>
>>>
>>> Chuck wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> --> RV-List message posted by: Chuck
>>>>
>>>> This brings up a recent conversation on the requirement of even
>>>> putting on Counterweights for the elevators.
>>>>
>>>> Any comments on the purpose(s), usefulness, or results of not
>>>> utilizing counterweights ? Inquiring minds want to know.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Do Not Archive
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Well Chuck, lemme try to answer, in order:
>>> Purpose: A balanced control surface is less prone to flutter at a
>>> given
>>> airspeed.
>>> Usefulness: I'd say high. You don't want to deal with flutter, or
>>> it's
>>> aftermath. A very good video of a stealth fighter experiencing
>>> flaperon
>>> flutter is out there somewhere on the web. Watch it.
>>> Results of not using counterweights: If there is a camera pointing
>>> your
>>> way at that particular moment, you'll have documentation just
>>> like the
>>> Stealth fighter mentioned above. You, however, do not have an
>>> ejection
>>> seat!
>>> Linn
>>>
>>>
>>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Spouse afraid to fly |
--> RV-List message posted by: Mark Grieve <mark@macomb.com>
I had a girlfriend who had never been in a small plane before we met.
For our first date I took her up for a night flight over the city. She
loved it and told people she felt totally safe in my hands. I even let
her take the controls for a while.
When we moved to Portland, OR I tried to get her to go to the fly-in
breakfasts and she finally relented the last month that I lived there.
She is now a regular volenteer at the breakfasts and thinks that
airplane people are wonderful. I could have told her that.
I got a call after her first RV ride. "Whoa baby!" are the words I
remember. Couldn't have said it better myself.
Mark
Do not archive
Pete Cowper wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: pcowper@webtv.net (Pete Cowper)
>
> Funny this thread should come up.
>
> I was just on the phone yesterday with a college friend's wife in her
> mid-50's who has refused to fly her entire life. She grew up in a
> isolated coastal town of Eureka, California and has lived her entire
> life there. Never had any reason to travel by plane so her fear matured
> over the years.
>
> Fast forward to this past January when cherished only child finishes
> college and married a guy from Mississippi two months ago that she met
> through the internet. Suitor's family owns a multi-generation family
> business of which he is becoming a part . . . never to leave
> Mississippi.
>
> My friend's wife cannot maintain her close relationship with her only
> child and hopefully upcoming grandchildren without flying back and forth
> from California to Mississippi.
>
> She bit the bullet and flew back for the wedding in January. She said
> she had white knuckles throughout the takeoff (luckily the death grip
> was on the seat, not my best friend from college's wrist), she had tears
> streaming down her cheeks by the time the jet reached altitude, but she
> says once the plane is cruising she didn't feel much anxiety at all.
> She is quite happy to know she can get through a flight after all.
>
> So . . . get your kids on the internet to marry someone far away.
> Motherly survival instinct will take over her fear of flying!
>
> Pete Cowper
> RV8 #81139
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
Message 13
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--> RV-List message posted by: Chris W <3edcft6@cox.net>
The RV-12 is shooting for the light sport licensed pilots. My question
is suppose you build one to spec and find after flight testing that it
goes faster than the max speed for that category? What do you do?
do not archive
--
Chris W
KE5GIX
Gift Giving Made Easy
Get the gifts you want &
give the gifts they want
One stop wish list for any gift,
from anywhere, for any occasion!
http://thewishzone.com
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: RV-12 question |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bob C. " <flyboy.bob@gmail.com>
Don't let it do that . . . or at least don't admit to it!
Last year at OSH Van said "they were going to play by the book" so if you
follow their instructions I'm pretty sure you'll be ok?
Good Luck,
Bob
On 3/23/06, Chris W <3edcft6@cox.net> wrote:
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Chris W <3edcft6@cox.net>
>
> The RV-12 is shooting for the light sport licensed pilots. My question
> is suppose you build one to spec and find after flight testing that it
> goes faster than the max speed for that category? What do you do?
>
> do not archive
>
> --
> Chris W
> KE5GIX
>
> Gift Giving Made Easy
> Get the gifts you want &
> give the gifts they want
> One stop wish list for any gift,
> from anywhere, for any occasion!
> http://thewishzone.com
>
>
Message 15
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--> RV-List message posted by: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com>
Fly it slower. :-)
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris W
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 12:41 PM
Subject: RV-List: RV-12 question
--> RV-List message posted by: Chris W <3edcft6@cox.net>
The RV-12 is shooting for the light sport licensed pilots. My question is
suppose you build one to spec and find after flight testing that it goes
faster than the max speed for that category? What do you do?
do not archive
--
Chris W
KE5GIX
Gift Giving Made Easy
Get the gifts you want &
give the gifts they want
One stop wish list for any gift,
from anywhere, for any occasion!
http://thewishzone.com
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: RV-12 question |
--> RV-List message posted by: Terry Williams <7ecapilot@comcast.net>
Certify that it's maximum speed in level flight under standard
conditions at sea level is 120 kts at a maximum permissible
continuous RPM setting. Then, provide operating limitations in your
handbook and placards in your airplane. You are the manufacturer. You
set the operating limitations. I have no idea if this will get past
an FAA inspection, but I am pretty sure that is legal. Sonex, Ltd.
declares that their 120hp version is LSA compliant. The maximum
continuous RPM for the Jabiru 3300 (120hp) is 2750 rpm. When you
extrapolate that to max continuous power('bout 108), their airplane
tops out at 135 mph (roughly 117kts). But, Jabiru says you can run
the engine to 3300 rpm for 10 minutes. So, for 10 minutes you can go
faster than 135 mph. They say their airplanes will go 170mph at
8000'. Builders of the Sonex 120hp have indicated that their
airplanes easily fly 160 mph ('bout 139kts) at cruise altitudes. But,
the reg stipulates maximum speed in level flight at sea level under
standard conditions with maximum continuous power.
http://www.sportpilot.org/rule/sp_rule.pdf
ymmv, :)
tw
On Mar 23, 2006, at 12:40 PM, Chris W wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Chris W <3edcft6@cox.net>
>
> The RV-12 is shooting for the light sport licensed pilots. My
> question
> is suppose you build one to spec and find after flight testing that it
> goes faster than the max speed for that category? What do you do?
>
> do not archive
>
> --
> Chris W
> KE5GIX
>
> Gift Giving Made Easy
> Get the gifts you want &
> give the gifts they want
> One stop wish list for any gift,
> from anywhere, for any occasion!
> http://thewishzone.com
>
>
Message 17
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Folbrecht, Paul" <PFolbrecht@starkinvestments.com>
A ramp-check is never going to involve a flight test (on a standard day yet!) to
ensure the IAS falls with the legal range. They will go by the specs and you
can be sure that the RV-12, with Van's recommended engine/prop combo, will meet
them. Nothing to worry about.
do not archive
________________________________
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Bob C.
Sent: Thu 3/23/2006 3:05 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-12 question
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bob C. " <flyboy.bob@gmail.com>
Don't let it do that . . . or at least don't admit to it!
Last year at OSH Van said "they were going to play by the book" so if you
follow their instructions I'm pretty sure you'll be ok?
Good Luck,
Bob
On 3/23/06, Chris W <3edcft6@cox.net> wrote:
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Chris W <3edcft6@cox.net>
>
> The RV-12 is shooting for the light sport licensed pilots. My question
> is suppose you build one to spec and find after flight testing that it
> goes faster than the max speed for that category? What do you do?
>
> do not archive
>
> --
> Chris W
> KE5GIX
>
> Gift Giving Made Easy
> Get the gifts you want &
> give the gifts they want
> One stop wish list for any gift,
> from anywhere, for any occasion!
> http://thewishzone.com
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: RV-12 question |
--> RV-List message posted by: linn Walters <pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net>
Chris W wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Chris W <3edcft6@cox.net>
>
>The RV-12 is shooting for the light sport licensed pilots. My question
>is suppose you build one to spec and find after flight testing that it
>goes faster than the max speed for that category? What do you do?
>
Keep your new-found knowledge to yourself!!! :-)
Linn
>
>do not archive
>
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: RV-12 question |
--> RV-List message posted by: "JOHN STARN" <jhstarn@verizon.net>
Easy. Put a self imposed RPM limit on you engine and note same in the "owner
operating limitations". KABONG
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris W" <3edcft6@cox.net>
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 12:40 PM
Subject: RV-List: RV-12 question
> --> RV-List message posted by: Chris W <3edcft6@cox.net>
>
> The RV-12 is shooting for the light sport licensed pilots. My question
> is suppose you build one to spec and find after flight testing that it
> goes faster than the max speed for that category? What do you do?
>
> do not archive
>
> --
> Chris W
> KE5GIX
>
> Gift Giving Made Easy
> Get the gifts you want &
> give the gifts they want
> One stop wish list for any gift,
> from anywhere, for any occasion!
> http://thewishzone.com
>
>
>
Message 20
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Fly n Low" <flynlow@usaviator.net>
"What do you do?"
Well......
If yer Catholic:
Perhaps 4 "Hail Mary's" 2 "Our Fathers" and 1 "Act of Contrition" would be
sufficient, then go fly.
If yer anything else
Perhaps say: "OOPS" then go fly.
All's well that ends well they say....
Bud Silvers
RV8 Fastback - Finishing
Do not archive
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: RV Elevator Counterweight question |
--> RV-List message posted by: "13brv3" <13brv3c@bellsouth.net>
I had worked out a way to be able to easily unbolt the counterweight on the first
RV-8 that I built, so I could replace it with a heavier one when I painted
the plane. I happened to mention this to one of the Van's support people when
I called about something else, and they almost laughed me off the phone. They
said if it really needed to be that precise, there would be RV's falling out
of the sky left and right every day. Their suggestion at the time was to leave
it just a bit heavy to compensate for future paint, then quit worrying about
it.
The next RV I finished was an RV-3. Guess what, no counterweights at all on an
RV-3 elevator, and you couldn't even tell it in flight.
My advice would be to do whatever makes you feel comfortable, but realize that
a small imbalance won't cause a problem under normal operating limits. Now if
you plan to set your Vne 50 kts past the recommendation, then you're on your
own anyway.
Cheers,
Rusty
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=23823#23823
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: RV-12 question |
--> RV-List message posted by: John Huft <rv8@lazy8.net>
Take it back apart, give the kit back to Van and demand your money back!
Chris W wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Chris W <3edcft6@cox.net>
>
>The RV-12 is shooting for the light sport licensed pilots. My question
>is suppose you build one to spec and find after flight testing that it
>goes faster than the max speed for that category? What do you do?
>
>do not archive
>
>
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: RV Elevator Counterweight question |
--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
On 23 Mar 2006, at 19:49, 13brv3 wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "13brv3" <13brv3c@bellsouth.net>
>
> I had worked out a way to be able to easily unbolt the
> counterweight on the first RV-8 that I built, so I could replace it
> with a heavier one when I painted the plane. I happened to
> mention this to one of the Van's support people when I called about
> something else, and they almost laughed me off the phone. They
> said if it really needed to be that precise, there would be RV's
> falling out of the sky left and right every day. Their suggestion
> at the time was to leave it just a bit heavy to compensate for
> future paint, then quit worrying about it.
>
> The next RV I finished was an RV-3. Guess what, no counterweights
> at all on an RV-3 elevator, and you couldn't even tell it in flight.
>
> My advice would be to do whatever makes you feel comfortable, but
> realize that a small imbalance won't cause a problem under normal
> operating limits. Now if you plan to set your Vne 50 kts past the
> recommendation, then you're on your own anyway.
it is good to realize that if the counterweight is too heavy, that it
will be creating an up-elevator force when you pull g. This will
reduce the amount of stick force required to pull a given amount of g
(or increase the amount of g achieved for a given stick force), and
would make the aircraft a bit more delicate to fly when pulling g,
especially at aft CG. Don't go overboard here.
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
Message 24
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Robin Marks" <robin@mrmoisture.com>
If your RV-12 flies too fast after it is first assembled follow these
instructions in order:
Step 1: Fly for 500 hours to see if performance decreases due to lower
engine / prop efficiencies.
Step 2: If you notice no reduction in performance repeat step 1.
Step 3: Continue to TBO.
Please, please, please do not archive....
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: RV Elevator Counterweight question |
--> RV-List message posted by: scott bilinski <rv8a2001@yahoo.com>
There was sombody on a E-mail list years ago, that, "looked down" and when looking
up noticed the ASI was at 260 MPH!!!!!! I REALLY would not lose sleep over
leaving it just as the factory says. Then there is sombody who flies in airshows
with a........Rocket? He regularly hits 280 or was it even faster?
13brv3 <13brv3c@bellsouth.net> wrote:
--> RV-List message posted by: "13brv3" <13brv3c@bellsouth.net>
I had worked out a way to be able to easily unbolt the counterweight on the first
RV-8 that I built, so I could replace it with a heavier one when I painted
the plane. I happened to mention this to one of the Van's support people when
I called about something else, and they almost laughed me off the phone. They
said if it really needed to be that precise, there would be RV's falling out of
the sky left and right every day. Their suggestion at the time was to leave
it just a bit heavy to compensate for future paint, then quit worrying about it.
The next RV I finished was an RV-3. Guess what, no counterweights at all on an
RV-3 elevator, and you couldn't even tell it in flight.
My advice would be to do whatever makes you feel comfortable, but realize that
a small imbalance won't cause a problem under normal operating limits. Now if
you plan to set your Vne 50 kts past the recommendation, then you're on your own
anyway.
Cheers,
Rusty
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=23823#23823
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