Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:51 AM - Re: Tip tanks (more) (Bob Barrow)
2. 05:07 AM - N4032Q (DAVID REEL)
3. 05:21 AM - Re: N4032Q (Ralph E. Capen)
4. 07:38 AM - Re: Re: Looking for an engine (Bruce Gray)
5. 09:53 AM - Any RVers in the Lawrenceville, GA area? (eddyfernan@aol.com)
6. 10:47 AM - Re: Tip tanks (more) (Stucklen, Frederic W UTPWR)
7. 10:58 AM - O-360 motor mounts (Dan Ross)
8. 11:08 AM - Re: O-360 motor mounts (Konrad L. Werner)
9. 11:32 AM - Oil filler / dipstick tube gasket or O-ring (Ralph E. Capen)
10. 11:55 AM - Re: LycomingEngines-List: Oil filler / dipstick tube gasket or O-ring (Ralph E. Capen)
11. 11:58 AM - Re: Oil filler / dipstick tube gasket or O-ring (Dan Checkoway)
12. 01:59 PM - Tip tanks and spins (Sherman Butler)
13. 02:16 PM - Re: Tip tanks and spins (Konrad L. Werner)
14. 02:19 PM - Re: Re: LycomingEngines-List: Oil filler / dipstick tube gasket or O-ring (BPA)
15. 03:24 PM - Re: Re: Tip tanks (more) (Bob Barrow)
16. 03:54 PM - Re: RV-List Digest: 21 Msgs - 03/27/06 (Brad Ransom)
17. 04:06 PM - Re: Tip tanks and spins (Bob Barrow)
18. 04:22 PM - Re: Re: RV-List Digest: 21 Msgs - 03/27/06 (Dan Checkoway)
19. 04:32 PM - Re: Re: Looking for an engine (c.ennis)
20. 06:21 PM - Re: Re: Looking for an engine (Charlie England)
21. 06:41 PM - Re: Re: Looking for an engine (Bruce Gray)
22. 07:56 PM - Tip tanks and wing root stresses (glaesers)
23. 08:25 PM - Re: Tip tanks and wing root stresses (Randall Richter)
24. 09:40 PM - Re: Tip tanks and wing root stresses (David Fenstermacher)
25. 10:06 PM - Re: Tip tanks and wing root stresses (Konrad L. Werner)
26. 10:24 PM - Advanced Flight EFIS Price (RobHickman@aol.com)
27. 11:21 PM - Re: Advanced Flight EFIS Price (Mickey Coggins)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Tip tanks (more) |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bob Barrow" <bobbarrow10@hotmail.com>
Yes I am. At least an incipient spin...maybe even up to 2 turns.
I don't see that's it's practical to remove the tip tanks. The answer is to
keep them as light as absolutely possible. I know for a fact that some
home-built tip tanks end up weighing a ton...many builders don't even know
what their tip tanks weigh....they just keep slopping on the resin.
Standard Vans tips (one tip) are approximately 6.5 lb. Johanson tip tanks
vary but generally weigh between 11.0 and 12.5 lb (and they have no baffles
inside).
I certainly wouldn't want any fuel in the tips though...not a drop.
>Are you planning to test spin recovery with the tip tanks installed,
>but empty, during your test phase? I have a friend with home grown
>removable tip tanks on his RV4 - he said he removes them before
>doing any aerobatics. Perhaps this is an option with the Johanson
>tanks.
>
>--
>Mickey Coggins
>http://www.rv8.ch/
>#82007 finishing
>
Make your dream car a reality
http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fcarpoint%2Eninemsn%2Ecom%2Eau&_t=12345&_r=emailtagline&_m=EXT
Message 2
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--> RV-List message posted by: "DAVID REEL" <dreel@cox.net>
I completed the first flight in N4032Q, an RV8A, yesterday at HEF, Manassas Regional
Airport. All went well except for a few glitches. I'll bet not many of
you have had to file an IFR flight plan for your first flights. Since HEF is
within the Washington DC ADIZ, I did. Controllers were, however, as helpful
as regulations would allow. I was able to remain in contact with the control
tower but still orbit the airport at 2,000 to 2,500 feet. It was somewhat stressful
to avoid going above 2,500 and into Dulles Airport's class B airspace but
it was nice to hear the tower advising arriving traffic I was there in case
they were thinking it was unimportant to get down to pattern altitude. It was
comforting to see HEF's long runways right below me. To stay within 2 miles,
I found I had to bank more steeply than my first flight test plan allowed as
I was breaking in a new engine and had decided to run at 2,500 rpm and 25 inches.
On takeoff, a strong left yaw and left roll defeated my intention to note my liftoff
airspeed. After landing I was astonished to see that I had rotated the
right main gear leg fairing well out of position even though I had marked the
correct position when I aligned them initially. The round gear legs of the 8A
made this possible & I would caution 8A builders to make this part of their final
check since it can require an uncomfortable amount of correction while flying.
I added a device for holding 25lb free weights to the aft baggage compartment shelf
per Gus Funnell's advice to make the initial flight with the CG in the center
of the allowable range. This proved to make control pressures feel a lot
like the 6A factory demonstrator I flew with Mike Seager to prepare for my first
flight.
Problems setting all the control parameters of my Grand Rapids EIS 4000 engine
monitor caused a spate of false warnings which made it difficult to know my power
setting. Each warning would replace the main display with one showing the
questionable engine parameter. Had I anticipated this, a backup gauge dedicated
to manifold pressure and RPM would have made this less of a problem. Engine
monitors with more capable displays would not present this problem. Or I could
have set most of the parameters to prevent warnings and brought them in to
play later one by one.
Well, that's pretty much it for lessons learned. My thanks to all you list folks.
Your ideas and experiences have been invaluable.
Dave Reel - RV8A - 1.2 hours
Message 3
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen@earthlink.net>
Congrats - I'm on the opposite side of the Chesapeake from you (N06) just starting
my firewall foreward.
If your flyoff area permits - stop on by....or we'll hope to see you after your
fly-off period.....
Ralph
-----Original Message-----
>From: DAVID REEL <dreel@cox.net>
>Sent: Mar 29, 2006 8:04 AM
>To: rvlist <rv-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RV-List: N4032Q
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: "DAVID REEL" <dreel@cox.net>
>
>I completed the first flight in N4032Q, an RV8A, yesterday at HEF, Manassas Regional
Airport. All went well except for a few glitches. I'll bet not many of
you have had to file an IFR flight plan for your first flights. Since HEF is
within the Washington DC ADIZ, I did. Controllers were, however, as helpful
as regulations would allow. I was able to remain in contact with the control
tower but still orbit the airport at 2,000 to 2,500 feet. It was somewhat stressful
to avoid going above 2,500 and into Dulles Airport's class B airspace
but it was nice to hear the tower advising arriving traffic I was there in case
they were thinking it was unimportant to get down to pattern altitude. It was
comforting to see HEF's long runways right below me. To stay within 2 miles,
I found I had to bank more steeply than my first flight test plan allowed as
I was breaking in a new engine and had decided to run at 2,500 rpm and 25 inches.
>
>On takeoff, a strong left yaw and left roll defeated my intention to note my liftoff
airspeed. After landing I was astonished to see that I had rotated the
right main gear leg fairing well out of position even though I had marked the
correct position when I aligned them initially. The round gear legs of the 8A
made this possible & I would caution 8A builders to make this part of their
final check since it can require an uncomfortable amount of correction while flying.
>
>I added a device for holding 25lb free weights to the aft baggage compartment
shelf per Gus Funnell's advice to make the initial flight with the CG in the center
of the allowable range. This proved to make control pressures feel a lot
like the 6A factory demonstrator I flew with Mike Seager to prepare for my first
flight.
>
>Problems setting all the control parameters of my Grand Rapids EIS 4000 engine
monitor caused a spate of false warnings which made it difficult to know my power
setting. Each warning would replace the main display with one showing the
questionable engine parameter. Had I anticipated this, a backup gauge dedicated
to manifold pressure and RPM would have made this less of a problem. Engine
monitors with more capable displays would not present this problem. Or I
could have set most of the parameters to prevent warnings and brought them in
to play later one by one.
>
>Well, that's pretty much it for lessons learned. My thanks to all you list folks.
Your ideas and experiences have been invaluable.
>
>Dave Reel - RV8A - 1.2 hours
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Looking for an engine |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce@glasair.org>
My experiences with Wentworth have been similar. I bought a yellow tagged 3
inch FD (ADI) from them. Sent it to the manufacturer for inspection and was
told it was junk. I had a tough time but was successful in getting my money
back. I was still out shipping and inspection fees. Not a good experience.
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Farner
Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 11:02 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Looking for an engine
--> RV-List message posted by: "Scott Farner" <sfarner@gmail.com>
I definitely echo the sentiment of caveat emptor, but there are some
reputable, at least in my experience, salvage yards out there.
I purchased a hurricane-damaged engine from Wentworth Aircraft last
September for my RV-7A with the intention of overauling it. They guaranteed
all of the expensive parts (crank, case, etc) to be within serviceable
condition. I believe this is true for all of the engines they sell unless
they specifically say that a part is bad. Anyway, after dissassembling it
and taking it to a machine shop, the crank was found not to be within
serviceable limits and the case had a seriously worn down main thrust face -
nothing that could be found without dissassembling the engine. After not
being able to find a replacement crankshaft, Wentworth refunded my money,
and even covered the cost of teardown and inspection - something they were
not liable for as their contract states that only the cost of the engine
will be refunded in this case. While not being happy about having to find
another engine, I was very happy with the way Wentworth handled the
situation and would not hesitate to deal with them again on my next project.
So I guess the moral of the story is if you are going to buy a salvage
engine, get a guarantee or warranty on the major parts, and if you are
worried about the source of the engine, ask the salvage yard for the
N-number of the aircraft that the engine came off of and contact the owner.
I was able to contact the owner who verified the information provided by
Wentworth. If they won't give or don't have the N-number, move on.
Scott Farner - former IO-360-A3B6D owner, current IO-390 owner (well in a
week or so)
www.scottfarner.com
RV-7A Wiring
Oh yes, and for completeness, I have no affiliation with Wentworth, just
satisfied with the way they do business.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Any RVers in the Lawrenceville, GA area? |
--> RV-List message posted by: eddyfernan@aol.com
I'm going to be in Lawrenceville, GA April 12-15th with some spare time. Anyone
know of any RV's in the area building or flying? If you need a hand or just
want to shoot the breeze send me an e-mail off the list.
Eddy Fernandez
RV-9A
Moving to the airport!
EddyFernan@AOL.COM
Do not archive
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Tip tanks (more) |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Stucklen, Frederic W UTPWR" <Fred.Stucklen@UTCPower.com>
First off, Jon explicitly states no aerobatics in his instructions.
He also states that the plane must be placarded against spins
if there is ANY fuel in the tip tanks. That's enough to convince
me to adhere to those instructions. I've intentionally spun my RV
during the test period (without tip tanks) and agree with Van's
observations that the RV6 (with the old vertical stab & rudder)
does not recover well (once established - might take 6 turns -
it took over three turns to recover...). Adding ANY weight to the
wing tip area will only make that recovery worst. I agree that
this includes the additional weight of an empty tip tank.
That said, it doesn't mean that adding the weight of extra fuel
to the wing tips for NORMAL flight condition, is dangerous. The
issue is the KNOW what the operational limitations are under
those condition, and to stay away from those limits. I'm
satisfied that the operational characteristics and limitations of
the RV6 with wing tanks is safe. And I don't plan on spinning the
aircraft intentionally. And knowing the limitations, I plan on staying
away from conditions that might induce a spin....
The original issue of these posts was to get information about
any venting issues from those flying their aircraft. To date, I've
only got feedback from one individual whose flying aircraft
experience a problem with draining the tip tanks while in flight.
He was able to modify the main tank vent slightly (from a 45*
angle into the airflow to a 30* angle) and demonstrate proper
operation. There has been no other flying aircraft (with tip
tanks) feedback...
So far, I'm the only flying aircraft (on the list) that has had the
opposite
problem - venting fuel out the main tank vents because of excessive
tip tank vent pressure relative to the main tank vent pressure.
I'm not comfortable with the dual vent design. I'm planning on
modifying that design (one side at a time) this weekend to a
single tip tank vent for both tanks. This will require the removal
of the check valve (& replacing it with a union) and capping off
the existing main tank vent. From an operational point, this
approach will always require the operator to fill the main tank
prior to adding any fuel to the tip tanks.
I'll keep the list informed of my progress and test results....
Fred Stucklen
RV-6A N926RV
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bob Barrow" <
<mailto:bobbarrow10@hotmail.com> bobbarrow10@hotmail.com>
Hi Fred, thanks for your comments. I actually received quite a lot of
replies to my post but for some reason people chose to email me
directly. I
appreciated all of the comments but I would ask people to respond
through
this forum because it enables everyone to gain benefit from the
diversity of
opinion and experience.
In terms of your specific direction re straight feed. There are a
number of
reasons I feel reluctant to go that way but I will raise just one.
The ability of the RV to recover from a spin depends primarily on the
capacity of the rudders' authority to overcome the moment of the
spinning
wings. And because moment is lever arm multiplied by mass it therefore
stand
to reason that even a small increase in mass at the wing tips will
grossly
increase the moment. For a start all tip tanks will add at least 6 lbs
over
the weight of standard tips (dry weight). That alone may influence
spin
recovery.
Any additional mass in the form of fuel in the tips (extra 1kg per
litre
approx) could prove fatal in a spin....even a very small quantity (say
just
3 or 4 litres) may lead to an unrecoverable spin. On the other hand it
may
not...it might take 10 litres...but I for one will not be the test
pilot
finding out where the limit is.
So I would say that it would be very prudent not to get into a spin
with any
fuel whatsoever in the tips. And the straight feed solution can never
guarantee that the tips are completely empty. So aerobatics would be
out of
the question...firstly because they would guarantee that fuel would
run to
the tips...and secondly because it greatly increases the chances of an
inadvertent spin.
As Einstein was reported to have said: " A mechanism should be as
simple as
practicable...but no simpler" (or words to that effect). In aviation
oversimplification can introduce risk...just look at Van's nose gear.
Message 7
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| Subject: | O-360 motor mounts |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Ross" <dcr@fdltownhomes.com>
Guys: There is a guy advertising Lord motor mounts, complete set (4) for
$55,
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/LYCOMING-DINAFOCAL-MOTOR-MOUNTS-LORD-NOS_W0QQ
cmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ26437QQitemZ4621714953. These are 21/4 diameter and
the hard mounts. Question: Will these fit the motor mount supplied by Vans
for the O-360? What do you think? Dan
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: O-360 motor mounts |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Konrad L. Werner" <klwerner@comcast.net>
Dan,
They will not fit Vans mount. You'll need the 3" one's!
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Dan Ross
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 11:56 AM
Subject: RV-List: O-360 motor mounts
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Ross" <dcr@fdltownhomes.com>
Guys: There is a guy advertising Lord motor mounts, complete set (4) for
$55,
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/LYCOMING-DINAFOCAL-MOTOR-MOUNTS-LORD-NOS_W0QQ
cmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ26437QQitemZ4621714953. These are 21/4 diameter and
the hard mounts. Question: Will these fit the motor mount supplied by Vans
for the O-360? What do you think? Dan
--
Message 9
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| Subject: | Oil filler / dipstick tube gasket or O-ring |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen@earthlink.net>
Fellow listers,
I'm starting my firewall foreward after getting a new CW crankshaft (per SB566).
I've got the engine on the mount and the mount on the fuse.
I was looking at the oil filler / dipstick tube...there's an O-ring at the top
to
seal the dipstick cap with the top of the tube. There's also room for another
O-ring
at the bottom of the tube to seal it with the crankcase. The O-ring at the top
is there - but not the one for the bottom. I've heard some say that a gasket goes
at the bottom.
Anyone know what it should be and what the correct part number is?????
The engine is an O360B1F6 with AFP inj and Lasar ign
Thanks,
Ralph Capen
RV6A N822AR @ N06 firewall foreward.....
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: LycomingEngines-List: Oil filler / dipstick tube gasket or |
O-ring
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen@earthlink.net>
Thanks Dan!
-----Original Message-----
>From: Dan Checkoway <dan@rvproject.com>
>Sent: Mar 29, 2006 2:37 PM
>To: lycomingengines-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: LycomingEngines-List: Oil filler / dipstick tube gasket or O-ring
>
>--> LycomingEngines-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
>
>It's in the Lycoming parts catalog. Lycoming p/n 72059.
>
>Spruce sells it for $1.05. Some people I've talked to about this just use
>high-temp RTV to seal it instead of using the "washer" style gasket. I used
>the 72059 gasket and still get a little bit of weepage.
>
>)_( Dan
>RV-7 N714D (842 hours)
>http://www.rvproject.com
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen@earthlink.net>
>To: <lycomingengines-list@matronics.com>
>Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 11:18 AM
>Subject: LycomingEngines-List: Oil filler / dipstick tube gasket or O-ring
>
>
>> --> LycomingEngines-List message posted by: "Ralph E. Capen"
>> <recapen@earthlink.net>
>>
>> Fellow listers,
>>
>> I'm starting my firewall foreward after getting a new CW crankshaft (per
>> SB566). I've got the engine on the mount and the mount on the fuse.
>>
>> I was looking at the oil filler / dipstick tube...there's an O-ring at the
>> top to seal the dipstick cap with the top of the tube. There's also room
>> for another O-ring at the bottom of the tube to seal it with the
>> crankcase. The O-ring at the top is there - but not the one for the
>> bottom. I've heard some say that a gasket goes at the bottom.
>>
>> Anyone know what it should be and what the correct part number is?????
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Ralph Capen
>> RV6A N822AR @ N06 firewall foreward.....
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Oil filler / dipstick tube gasket or O-ring |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
It's in the Lycoming parts catalog. Lycoming p/n 72059.
Spruce sells it for $1.05. Some people I've talked to about this just use
high-temp RTV to seal it instead of using the "washer" style gasket. I used
the 72059 gasket and still get a little bit of weepage.
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D (842 hours)
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen@earthlink.net>
Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 11:30 AM
Subject: RV-List: Oil filler / dipstick tube gasket or O-ring
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen@earthlink.net>
>
> Fellow listers,
>
> I'm starting my firewall foreward after getting a new CW crankshaft (per
> SB566).
> I've got the engine on the mount and the mount on the fuse.
>
> I was looking at the oil filler / dipstick tube...there's an O-ring at the
> top to
> seal the dipstick cap with the top of the tube. There's also room for
> another O-ring
> at the bottom of the tube to seal it with the crankcase. The O-ring at
> the top
> is there - but not the one for the bottom. I've heard some say that a
> gasket goes
> at the bottom.
>
> Anyone know what it should be and what the correct part number is?????
>
> The engine is an O360B1F6 with AFP inj and Lasar ign
>
> Thanks,
> Ralph Capen
> RV6A N822AR @ N06 firewall foreward.....
>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Tip tanks and spins |
--> RV-List message posted by: Sherman Butler <lsbrv7a@yahoo.com>
It depends on the mission. My son the aero engineer made this comment.
Dad,
The writer of this article does have some valid things to say. I think it imprudent
to say that even a little gas in the tip tanks could be fatal, given that
no information about the airplanes stability coefficients or moments of inertia
is provided. However, I do think that unless you have that data it would
be unwise to take too big of a chance. There are other interesting advantages
to putting more weight in the tips; one, roll stability (the aircrafts tendency
to be upset by air perturbations) can be enhanced. Two, the weight in the tips
could lower the stresses in the wing spar root (hence the airbus A340 hangs
its engines way out on the wing).
There is a way to measure estimates for the spin stability coefficients but its
not terribly easy.
Sherman Butler
RV-7a Empennage
Idaho Falls
---------------------------------
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Tip tanks and spins |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Konrad L. Werner" <klwerner@comcast.net>
That brings up another question that I have regarding Wing Spar Root stress (not
necessarily in the RV-Series though):
Let me just say that in this scenario one would be able to switch between all tanks,
... not draining one into the other.
Would it be best to burn most fuel of the Mains before switching to the Tips?
Or would one first burn most of the Tips before going to the Mains?
Which way would be better in a fully switchable 4-Tank System?
Thanks,
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Sherman Butler
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 2:53 PM
Subject: RV-List: Tip tanks and spins
--> RV-List message posted by: Sherman Butler <lsbrv7a@yahoo.com>
It depends on the mission. My son the aero engineer made this comment.
Dad,
The writer of this article does have some valid things to say. I think it imprudent
to say that even a little gas in the tip tanks could be fatal, given
that no information about the airplanes stability coefficients or moments of inertia
is provided. However, I do think that unless you have that data it would
be unwise to take too big of a chance. There are other interesting advantages
to putting more weight in the tips; one, roll stability (the aircrafts tendency
to be upset by air perturbations) can be enhanced. Two, the weight in the
tips could lower the stresses in the wing spar root (hence the airbus A340 hangs
its engines way out on the wing).
There is a way to measure estimates for the spin stability coefficients but
its not terribly easy.
Sherman Butler
RV-7a Empennage
Idaho Falls
---------------------------------
--
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: LycomingEngines-List: Oil filler / dipstick tube gasket |
or O-ring
--> RV-List message posted by: "BPA" <BPA@BPAENGINES.COM>
The 72059 is the correct P/N. It is a fibrous gasket and will seep
(sometimes). A trick used is to apply a small amount of locktite 515 or
more commonly known as 'grape jelly'on both sides of the gasket before
installing the fill tube, and then grip the tube with both hands and
rotate to tighten only until the fill tube quits rotating. If a wrench
is used, be extremely careful not to apply too much force as the tube
has been known to crack (don't ask how I know)
Allen Barrett
Barrett Precision Engines, Inc.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ralph E. Capen
Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 1:53 PM
Subject: RV-List: Re: LycomingEngines-List: Oil filler / dipstick tube
gasket or O-ring
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen@earthlink.net>
Thanks Dan!
-----Original Message-----
>From: Dan Checkoway <dan@rvproject.com>
>Sent: Mar 29, 2006 2:37 PM
>To: lycomingengines-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: LycomingEngines-List: Oil filler / dipstick tube gasket or
O-ring
>
>--> LycomingEngines-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway"
<dan@rvproject.com>
>
>It's in the Lycoming parts catalog. Lycoming p/n 72059.
>
>Spruce sells it for $1.05. Some people I've talked to about this just
use
>high-temp RTV to seal it instead of using the "washer" style gasket. I
used
>the 72059 gasket and still get a little bit of weepage.
>
>)_( Dan
>RV-7 N714D (842 hours)
>http://www.rvproject.com
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen@earthlink.net>
>To: <lycomingengines-list@matronics.com>
>Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 11:18 AM
>Subject: LycomingEngines-List: Oil filler / dipstick tube gasket or
O-ring
>
>
>> --> LycomingEngines-List message posted by: "Ralph E. Capen"
>> <recapen@earthlink.net>
>>
>> Fellow listers,
>>
>> I'm starting my firewall foreward after getting a new CW crankshaft
(per
>> SB566). I've got the engine on the mount and the mount on the fuse.
>>
>> I was looking at the oil filler / dipstick tube...there's an O-ring
at the
>> top to seal the dipstick cap with the top of the tube. There's also
room
>> for another O-ring at the bottom of the tube to seal it with the
>> crankcase. The O-ring at the top is there - but not the one for the
>> bottom. I've heard some say that a gasket goes at the bottom.
>>
>> Anyone know what it should be and what the correct part number
is?????
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Ralph Capen
>> RV6A N822AR @ N06 firewall foreward.....
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Tip tanks (more) |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bob Barrow" <bobbarrow10@hotmail.com>
Hi Fred, I must correct your statement below. Jon Johanson does not exclude
aerobatics when his tip tanks are installed. You must be misreading his
instructions. He specifically says no aeros when there's fuel in the
tips....that's all.
Of course there's always the small possibility that one might end up in an
inadvertent spin without doing aeros. So on that basis I wouldn't want to be
flying around with any fuel in the tips unless I specifically needed it for
a mission. On that basis I see it as important to be able to control fuel
from migrating from the mains to the tips at all times.
I look forward to recieving your feedback on your current experiment.
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Stucklen, Frederic W UTPWR"
><Fred.Stucklen@UTCPower.com>
>
> First off, Jon explicitly states no aerobatics in his instructions.
>He also states that the plane must be placarded against spins
>if there is ANY fuel in the tip tanks. That's enough to convince
>me to adhere to those instructions.
New year, new job there's more than 100,00 jobs at SEEK
http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fninemsn%2Eseek%2Ecom%2Eau&_t=752315885&_r=Jan05_tagline&_m=EXT
Message 16
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|
| Subject: | Re: RV-List Digest: 21 Msgs - 03/27/06 |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Brad Ransom" <aztailwind@uneedspeed.net>
Hay Dan,
Great info as usual, I'm also going the Tru Track-Pic Pilot route.
I hope you can enlighten use on the ADI problems? Not good at pitch
display? or?? I was thinking it could be a good back-up for IFR if the Dynon
goes south?
Thanks for any other experience out there.
Brad Ransom
RV-6A QB-Firewall forward
N8848X- Gas hog
do not airchive
> From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
> Subject: Re: RV-List: autopilot experience
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
>
>> What features does adding the Pictoral Pilot add to your
>> Digitrak/Altrak autopilot?
>
> A solid state turn & bank and a knob (instead of just up/down buttons) to
> select your course, which can also be used to dial up/down by 5 instead of
> 1
> degree at a time.
>
> In my plane I've had the 3.125" Digitrak, 3.125" Pictorial Pilot, and now
> the 2.25" Pictorial Pilot. I wouldn't do it any other way. TruTrak is a
> great company to deal with. Their "upgrade for the difference in cost"
> program kicks butt...probably one of the biggest reasons to buy from them.
> You can "start small" and then move your way up the line if that's
> something
> you want to do.
>
> I've had these autopilots fed serially from my GX60, and now it's fed from
> the 396.
>
> The one area where I think TruTrak is shooting themselves in the foot is
> the
> ADI. I wouldn't fly with that instrument (particularly in IFR) if you
> paid
> me. I think many builders are making a big mistake if they think it will
> provide them a vertical horizon reference, and I think TruTrak is making a
> mistake marketing this product. Hear me now and believe me later...
>
> do not archive
> )_( Dan
> RV-7 N714D (841 hours)
> http://www.rvproject.com
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Tip tanks and spins |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bob Barrow" <bobbarrow10@hotmail.com>
Jon Johanson reports that with standard Vans wing tips on his RV4 the plane
will recover from a spin by simply releasing all control inputs
(specifically rudder). With the tip tanks installed (and fully empty) the
aircraft requires positive spin recovery inputs to stop the spin (works
within 1/4 turn). So there is some information that is relevant. By adding
approx 6 lb of mass to each tip his RV went from requiring no spin recovery
inputs to requiring positive spin recovery inputs. It is still safe...but
different conditions apply.
This leads me to the conclusion that 6 lb of additional mass at the wing tip
of an RV can in fact make a real difference in terms of spin recovery
characteristics.
If just 1 gal of fuel remained in the tips that would increase the tip tank
mass by another 6 lb. Am I saying that would definitely, absolutely,
positively cause real spin recovery problems...no I am not. I'm just saying
that it *could*...and I don't intend going there to find out.
My goal will be to instal a tip tank system that ensures that I have zero
fuel in the tips when I do not require tip fuel for a mission (which will be
most of the time).
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: Sherman Butler <lsbrv7a@yahoo.com>
>
>It depends on the mission. My son the aero engineer made this comment.
> Dad,
> The writer of this article does have some valid things to say. I think
>it imprudent to say that even a little gas in the tip tanks could be fatal,
>given that no information about the airplanes stability coefficients or
>moments of inertia is provided.
Search for local singles online @ Lavalife - Click here
http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Flavalife9%2Eninemsn%2Ecom%2Eau%2Fclickthru%2Fclickthru%2Eact%3Fid%3Dninemsn%26context%3Dan99%26locale%3Den%5FAU%26a%3D21550&_t=21550&_r=endtext&_m=EXT
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: RV-List Digest: 21 Msgs - 03/27/06 |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
My opinion, and it's just an opinion, is that if the ADI is really
presenting "VSI" information, then it should NOT be presented like a
horizon. I'm just expressing my opinion here.
I know one guy who is flying with the ADI and he said that it has done a few
weird things. Like all of a sudden in level flight the bar will shoot up
for no reason. He said it's also scraping against the plastic face, leaving
orange paint on it.
I don't want to speak negatively about TruTrak. I have a lot of respect for
their products (I use them) and their business practices. Again, I'm just
expressing my *opinion* about the ADI. Your mileage may vary.
do not archive
)_( Dan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brad Ransom" <aztailwind@uneedspeed.net>
Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 3:52 PM
Subject: RV-List: Re: RV-List Digest: 21 Msgs - 03/27/06
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Brad Ransom" <aztailwind@uneedspeed.net>
>
> Hay Dan,
> Great info as usual, I'm also going the Tru Track-Pic Pilot route.
> I hope you can enlighten use on the ADI problems? Not good at pitch
> display? or?? I was thinking it could be a good back-up for IFR if the
> Dynon
> goes south?
> Thanks for any other experience out there.
> Brad Ransom
> RV-6A QB-Firewall forward
> N8848X- Gas hog
>
> do not airchive
>
>> From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
>> Subject: Re: RV-List: autopilot experience
>>
>> --> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
>>
>>> What features does adding the Pictoral Pilot add to your
>>> Digitrak/Altrak autopilot?
>>
>> A solid state turn & bank and a knob (instead of just up/down buttons) to
>> select your course, which can also be used to dial up/down by 5 instead
>> of
>> 1
>> degree at a time.
>>
>> In my plane I've had the 3.125" Digitrak, 3.125" Pictorial Pilot, and now
>> the 2.25" Pictorial Pilot. I wouldn't do it any other way. TruTrak is a
>> great company to deal with. Their "upgrade for the difference in cost"
>> program kicks butt...probably one of the biggest reasons to buy from
>> them.
>> You can "start small" and then move your way up the line if that's
>> something
>> you want to do.
>>
>> I've had these autopilots fed serially from my GX60, and now it's fed
>> from
>> the 396.
>>
>> The one area where I think TruTrak is shooting themselves in the foot is
>> the
>> ADI. I wouldn't fly with that instrument (particularly in IFR) if you
>> paid
>> me. I think many builders are making a big mistake if they think it will
>> provide them a vertical horizon reference, and I think TruTrak is making
>> a
>> mistake marketing this product. Hear me now and believe me later...
>>
>> do not archive
>> )_( Dan
>> RV-7 N714D (841 hours)
>> http://www.rvproject.com
>>
>
>
>
Message 19
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|
| Subject: | Re: Looking for an engine |
--> RV-List message posted by: "c.ennis" <c.ennis@insightbb.com>
Let me throw in my 2 cents on salvage engines,,,I have 60 hours flying an
0320 D3G in an RV-6A. I bought this engine from Wentworth back in 97 or 98.
It came from a Warrior owned by Embry Riddle in Fla. It had been blown
around their ramp during one of Fla. many tropical storms. It sat in a
hanger until I hung and flew it in 2004. It came with log book and
documentation, carb, starter, mags, fuel pump, ect. everything but a vacumn
pump...so far it has not burned a drop of oil.
My point is, there are good engines to be had in the salvage arena, you
need to ask questions and deal with a known salvage dealer, I would
recommend Wentworth, but they are by no means the only game in town.
Charlie Ennis
RV-6A N60CE
Do Not Archive
Message 20
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|
| Subject: | Re: Looking for an engine |
--> RV-List message posted by: Charlie England <ceengland@bellsouth.net>
Bruce Gray wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce@glasair.org>
>
>Unless you're real careful, the last place you want to buy an engine is at a
>salvage yard. Last time I talked with my insurance contacts the insurance
>carriers that he knew of, were requiring the total destruction on the
>aircraft that were totaled because of water emersion and lack to treatment
>after they were pulled from the flood. The salvage yard had to crush them
>with a bulldozer and certify that all parts would never be in the stream of
>commerce again. What a waste.
>
One of the major underwriters had over a dozen a/c listed on its auction
site last fall, all saying 'immersed in salt water due to Hurricane
Katrina'. No mention of any requirement to crush the fruits of your
winning bid. I certainly wouldn't trust an airframe that had been
submerged in salt water for several weeks, but I doubt that the
insurance companies care as long as they have a contract signed by the
purchaser stating that he's aware of the history of the plane. (I doubt
you could get them to insure it, though...)
As others will attest, lots of people get excellent engines from salvage
yards. It obviously carries some risk, but buying a used a/c is almost
as big a crap shoot, since you have no way of knowing its real history
unless you are familiar with the plane. Log books don't tell you any
more about an engine on a flying a/c than they do about a salvage
engine. The key, for me would be to buy from a reputable yard & get
everything in writing.
Charlie
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Looking for an engine |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce@glasair.org>
I got the crush requirement from 2 separate yard managers I talked to. The
reason is that once the salt water receded, there was a long time delay
before anyone could get to the submerged aircraft and rinse them with fresh
water. As a result all suffered major salt water corrosion and rust.
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charlie England
Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 9:17 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Looking for an engine
--> RV-List message posted by: Charlie England <ceengland@bellsouth.net>
Bruce Gray wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce@glasair.org>
>
>Unless you're real careful, the last place you want to buy an engine is at
a
>salvage yard. Last time I talked with my insurance contacts the insurance
>carriers that he knew of, were requiring the total destruction on the
>aircraft that were totaled because of water emersion and lack to treatment
>after they were pulled from the flood. The salvage yard had to crush them
>with a bulldozer and certify that all parts would never be in the stream of
>commerce again. What a waste.
>
One of the major underwriters had over a dozen a/c listed on its auction
site last fall, all saying 'immersed in salt water due to Hurricane
Katrina'. No mention of any requirement to crush the fruits of your
winning bid. I certainly wouldn't trust an airframe that had been
submerged in salt water for several weeks, but I doubt that the
insurance companies care as long as they have a contract signed by the
purchaser stating that he's aware of the history of the plane. (I doubt
you could get them to insure it, though...)
As others will attest, lots of people get excellent engines from salvage
yards. It obviously carries some risk, but buying a used a/c is almost
as big a crap shoot, since you have no way of knowing its real history
unless you are familiar with the plane. Log books don't tell you any
more about an engine on a flying a/c than they do about a salvage
engine. The key, for me would be to buy from a reputable yard & get
everything in writing.
Charlie
Message 22
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|
| Subject: | Tip tanks and wing root stresses |
--> RV-List message posted by: "glaesers" <glaesers@wideopenwest.com>
Konrad,
>From a purely structural standpoint, you would get the lowest in-flight wing
root stresses by burning the main (inboard) fuel first.
However typically, other considerations (i.e. unporting, pressure drops from
long lines, ...) drive the operational procedures that should be used.
Dennis Glaeser
--> RV-List message posted by: "Konrad L. Werner" <klwerner@comcast.net>
That brings up another question that I have regarding Wing Spar Root stress
(not
necessarily in the RV-Series though):
Let me just say that in this scenario one would be able to switch between
all tanks,
... not draining one into the other.
Would it be best to burn most fuel of the Mains before switching to the
Tips?
Or would one first burn most of the Tips before going to the Mains?
Which way would be better in a fully switchable 4-Tank System?
Thanks,
do not archive
Message 23
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| Subject: | Tip tanks and wing root stresses |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Randall Richter" <richterrbb@earthlink.net>
I gotta chime in here. I've flown KC-135s and C-130s, both of which are
about 130' wide. You can put something like 62,000 lbs of fuel across the
wings of the tanker and 44,000 in the wing of the Herc. For these types of
acft, wing fuel distribution, loading and burn sequence is a factor. They're
limited to 2.5g load factor for this and other reasons.
When you're talking a roughly 10' wing with 120 lbs of fuel in each side
(chock full), I'm thinking that sweating the burn sequence is a waste of
brain cells. If you've got tips, burn mains down till they can take the tip
quantity, then drain. Don't over-complicate your plumbing.
This is all the thought I'll devote to this subject.
Randy
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of glaesers
Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 10:50 PM
Subject: RV-List: Tip tanks and wing root stresses
--> RV-List message posted by: "glaesers" <glaesers@wideopenwest.com>
Konrad,
>From a purely structural standpoint, you would get the lowest in-flight
wing
root stresses by burning the main (inboard) fuel first.
However typically, other considerations (i.e. unporting, pressure drops from
long lines, ...) drive the operational procedures that should be used.
Dennis Glaeser
--> RV-List message posted by: "Konrad L. Werner" <klwerner@comcast.net>
That brings up another question that I have regarding Wing Spar Root stress
(not
necessarily in the RV-Series though):
Let me just say that in this scenario one would be able to switch between
all tanks,
... not draining one into the other.
Would it be best to burn most fuel of the Mains before switching to the
Tips?
Or would one first burn most of the Tips before going to the Mains?
Which way would be better in a fully switchable 4-Tank System?
Thanks,
do not archive
Message 24
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|
| Subject: | Re: Tip tanks and wing root stresses |
--> RV-List message posted by: David Fenstermacher <davidfenster@comcast.net>
Randall - where were you in the 135? Anyway...
So you must remember a spin in a 37 was a wild ride "Low, Left, and Light".
Low entry (Non-aggressive stall)
Left entry (Had to do with the rotation of the engine)
Light weight (yes, LIGHT weight)
I have spun (in my younger and dumber days) civil AC. In comparison to
the 37, they were more of a spiral. Let loose of pro spin controls and
the thing stops. Unlike the 37 - if you do not provide anti-spin
controls in a definite sequence, the spin will continue or flip over to
inverted. With your head banging around the canopy. My point - if you
think about spinning an aircraft w/o knowing how to get out (not just
letting go of the stick) you are asking for trouble. Yes - in most
circumstances, letting go of pro-spin inputs will drop you out of the
spin. But - does anyone really know the inputs to get you out in an RV
if the crap hits the fan?
In the military we had BOLDFACE. Procedures which were committed to
memory. Spin recovery was one of them.
I would like to see a discussion of pro-spin inputs to get out.
I'll start:
Throttles--Idle
Rudder and Ailerons--Neutral
Stick--Abruptly full aft and hold
Rudder--Abruptly apply full Rudder opposite spin direction (opposite
turn needle) and hold
Stick--Abruptly full forward one turn after applying rudder
Controls--Neutral after spinning stops and recover from dive
The above is the 37 boldface. It is meant as a start. Chances are it
would work, but what do I know...
Let's start the flaming.
Randall Richter wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Randall Richter" <richterrbb@earthlink.net>
>
> I gotta chime in here. I've flown KC-135s and C-130s, both of which are
> about 130' wide. You can put something like 62,000 lbs of fuel across the
> wings of the tanker and 44,000 in the wing of the Herc. For these types of
> acft, wing fuel distribution, loading and burn sequence is a factor. They're
> limited to 2.5g load factor for this and other reasons.
>
> When you're talking a roughly 10' wing with 120 lbs of fuel in each side
> (chock full), I'm thinking that sweating the burn sequence is a waste of
> brain cells. If you've got tips, burn mains down till they can take the tip
> quantity, then drain. Don't over-complicate your plumbing.
>
> This is all the thought I'll devote to this subject.
>
> Randy
>
>
Message 25
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|
| Subject: | Re: Tip tanks and wing root stresses |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Konrad L. Werner" <klwerner@comcast.net>
Dear Randy,
Thank you for your input on fuel management!
Konrad
do not archive (again)
----- Original Message -----
From: Randall Richter
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 9:24 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Tip tanks and wing root stresses
--> RV-List message posted by: "Randall Richter" <richterrbb@earthlink.net>
I gotta chime in here. I've flown KC-135s and C-130s, both of which are
about 130' wide. You can put something like 62,000 lbs of fuel across the
wings of the tanker and 44,000 in the wing of the Herc. For these types of
acft, wing fuel distribution, loading and burn sequence is a factor. They're
limited to 2.5g load factor for this and other reasons.
When you're talking a roughly 10' wing with 120 lbs of fuel in each side
(chock full), I'm thinking that sweating the burn sequence is a waste of
brain cells. If you've got tips, burn mains down till they can take the tip
quantity, then drain. Don't over-complicate your plumbing.
This is all the thought I'll devote to this subject.
Randy
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of glaesers
Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 10:50 PM
To: RV-List@matronics.com
Subject: RV-List: Tip tanks and wing root stresses
--> RV-List message posted by: "glaesers" <glaesers@wideopenwest.com>
Konrad,
>From a purely structural standpoint, you would get the lowest in-flight
wing
root stresses by burning the main (inboard) fuel first.
However typically, other considerations (i.e. unporting, pressure drops from
long lines, ...) drive the operational procedures that should be used.
Dennis Glaeser
--> RV-List message posted by: "Konrad L. Werner" <klwerner@comcast.net>
That brings up another question that I have regarding Wing Spar Root stress
(not
necessarily in the RV-Series though):
Let me just say that in this scenario one would be able to switch between
all tanks,
... not draining one into the other.
Would it be best to burn most fuel of the Mains before switching to the
Tips?
Or would one first burn most of the Tips before going to the Mains?
Which way would be better in a fully switchable 4-Tank System?
Thanks,
do not archive
--
Message 26
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|
| Subject: | Advanced Flight EFIS Price |
--> RV-List message posted by: RobHickman@aol.com
We have our Special Pricing for Sun-n-Fun
Dual Screen AF-3400 System Including the following:
1. AF-3400 EFIS
2. AF-3400 Engine Monitor
3. ALL Engine Probes and Sensors, Including Fuel Flow for 4 Cylinder
4. External Magnetometer
Our AHRS is based on certified boards and software.
&
You don't pay anything until the system is ready to ship.
Booth D-92 Price: $6,999
Upgrade any Screen to the AF-3500 for only $400 each.
6 Cylinder Upgrade $200
Rob Hickman
Advanced Flight Systems
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Advanced Flight EFIS Price |
--> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
> You don't pay anything until the system is ready to ship.
When will it be ready to ship? Thanks!
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 finishing
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