Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:38 AM - Re: Heavy Wing (Kevin Horton)
2. 04:43 AM - Re: switching from slow build to QB (Larry Bowles)
3. 04:58 AM - Vans VA-186 Oil cooler box assy (Ralph E. Capen)
4. 05:44 AM - Re: switching from slow build to QB (Alex Peterson)
5. 07:23 AM - Re: Heavy Wing (LarryRobertHelming)
6. 08:22 AM - Re: switching from slow build to QB (LarryRobertHelming)
7. 08:34 AM - Re: switching from slow build to QB (Tim Bryan)
8. 09:50 AM - noise levels in the 10 (Evan and Megan Johnson)
9. 10:15 AM - Re: Heavy Wing (Louis Willig)
10. 10:33 AM - Re: noise levels in the 10 (HCRV6@comcast.net)
11. 05:32 PM - Re: switching from slow build to QB (Dwight Frye)
12. 06:26 PM - Re: Heavy Wing (charles heathco)
13. 08:29 PM - Re: Heavy Wing (Jerry Springer)
14. 08:50 PM - World's best airplane battery (BillDube@killacycle.com)
15. 10:31 PM - Re: World's best airplane battery (Chris W)
Message 1
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--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
On 7 Apr 2006, at 16:51, DAVID REEL wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "DAVID REEL" <dreel@cox.net>
>
> I have a VERY heavy left wing on my RV8A. Full aileron trim
> doesn't begin to correct it. I measured the flap angles and found
> the left flap to be 1 degree more up than the right flap. I also
> checked the wing incidence and found them to be within 1/10 of a
> degree of each other. So, I'm contemplating cranking the left flap
> down 1 degree and fly to test. However, I thought I'd ask if you
> thought that was too big a change to make all at once from your
> testing experience and in addition whether a single degree would be
> likely to make a big difference.
I believe one degree of flap assymetry could make a significant
difference. I would have no concern about making that whole change
at once, as you have more than enough aileron authority to counter
the effect of a one degree flap change.
>
> A related question is how can I tell whether the flaps are in
> neutral trail more accurately than with the wing template. Maybe I
> should be raising the right flap? With the wing at 0 degrees
> incidence, it would seem that neutral trail on the flap would be a
> specific number of degrees as measured, say, across the top of the
> flap. Do you know of such a number? I've never seen anything like
> this on the list but I bet Vans design computer could spit this
> right out. This would make it much easier to set the flap angle.
I don't have any advice on the best way to measure flap angle. But,
from a performance point of view, it is better to err on the side of
having the retracted position too high than to have it too low.
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: switching from slow build to QB |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Bowles" <schybolt@verizon.net>
> I did this. There were no issues but the lead time was 9 months and the
actual time from when I ordered until it was on my door was
> almost a year...
>
> - Matt
>
You can beat that in your own garage.
Larry B.
Slo Bld In Tx
Do Not Archive
Message 3
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| Subject: | Vans VA-186 Oil cooler box assy |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen@earthlink.net>
Fellow listers,
Has anyone out there used this thing for their oil cooler? It is supposed to be
for the 20006A or 8604R oil cooler. I got this thing - no photos/instructions
and it doesn't look right to do what I think its supposed to do.
Any help would be appreciated,
Ralph
Message 4
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| Subject: | switching from slow build to QB |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson@earthlink.net>
> --> RV-List message posted by: David Fenstermacher
> --> <davidfenster@comcast.net>
>
> I have the wings on my slooooo 8 almost done.
> I am thinking of switching to the quick build fuse.
>
> I realize you have to send the center section back...
> Anyone done this - and what was your experience?
> Were there any "issues" from doing this. I wanna get this thing done!
>
> Thanks,
> Dave
Dave,
Building these planes is remarkably similar to mountain climbing - one can
see a lot of "false summits" along the way. I truly don't want to
discourage you, but when building a slow build, the work is perhaps 40% done
when the airframe is complete to the point of a quickbuild (this percentage
was higher with the old, non prepunched kits). The visual progress slows a
lot at that point. What is important is to force yourself to think of the
whole project as a series of small, palatable projects. E.g., "I'm building
an aileron", or, "I'm building a canopy". I think one of the easiest
mistakes, and the cause of much discouragement, is to think too far ahead.
Have live discussions with those who have been there before, I suspect they
will all agree with my assessment/recommendations (I was given the same good
advice when building mine).
Alex Peterson
RV6-A N66AP 740 hours, and stuck in FL with yet another failed LASAR mag.
Maple Grove, MN
Message 5
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--> RV-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming@sigecom.net>
----- Original Message ----- >
> I have a VERY heavy left wing on my RV8A. Full aileron trim doesn't begin
> to correct it. I measured the flap angles and found the left flap to be 1
> degree more up than the right flap. I also checked the wing incidence and
> found them to be within 1/10 of a degree of each other. So, I'm
> contemplating cranking the left flap down 1 degree and fly to test.
> However, I thought I'd ask if you thought that was too big a change to
> make all at once from your testing experience and in addition whether a
> single degree would be likely to make a big difference.
>
> A related question is how can I tell whether the flaps are in neutral
> trail more accurately than with the wing template. Maybe I should be
> raising the right flap? With the wing at 0 degrees incidence, it would
> seem that neutral trail on the flap would be a specific number of degrees
> as measured, say, across the top of the flap. Do you know of such a
> number? I've never seen anything like this on the list but I bet Vans
> design computer could spit this right out. This would make it much easier
> to set the flap angle.
>
> Dave Reel - RV8A - 3 hrs & a tired right arm.
>
>
Vans has an excellent document on how to fix a heavy wing. Get from their
web site. Check it out in the order they recommend. Only consider
squeezing the aileron after the other things have been checked and fixed if
necessary. I takes only a very minor difference to cause this heavy or
light condition. I worked on mine for months before finally squeezing the
light aileron and the amount I squeezed it could not even been detected. It
was very, very slight. Also: Check Dan Checkoway's website for his
solution which involved an aileron bracket placement adjustment. Indiana
Larry
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: switching from slow build to QB |
--> RV-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming@sigecom.net>
----- Original Message ----- >>
>> I have the wings on my slooooo 8 almost done.
>> I am thinking of switching to the quick build fuse.
>>
>> I realize you have to send the center section back...
>> Anyone done this - and what was your experience?
>> Were there any "issues" from doing this. I wanna get this thing done!
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Dave
>
> Dave,
>
> Building these planes is remarkably similar to mountain climbing - one can
> see a lot of "false summits" along the way. I truly don't want to
> discourage you, but when building a slow build, the work is perhaps 40%
> done
> when the airframe is complete to the point of a quickbuild (this
> percentage
> was higher with the old, non prepunched kits). The visual progress slows
> a
> lot at that point. What is important is to force yourself to think of the
> whole project as a series of small, palatable projects. E.g., "I'm
> building
> an aileron", or, "I'm building a canopy". I think one of the easiest
> mistakes, and the cause of much discouragement, is to think too far ahead.
> Have live discussions with those who have been there before, I suspect
> they
> will all agree with my assessment/recommendations (I was given the same
> good
> advice when building mine).
>
> Alex Peterson
> RV6-A N66AP 740 hours, and stuck in FL with yet another failed LASAR mag.
> Maple Grove, MN
>
> ((((((((()))))))))))
Dave, I totally agree with Alex, do not be thinking about the finished plane
or your friends who are flying already as you build the various assemblies.
You will feel anxiety because you have the end in your mind and you are a
lot and a lot more of little steps away from it. You need to work with a
closed mind at this time until you get to one of the next bigger steps of
mounting the engine or selecting the instruments/radios, etc. Keep your
head in the construction manual, one step at a time, for now. Check off a
step when you do it and go to the next one. Try to read the manual and next
step every day. Don't look too far ahead except for ordering the next sub
kit before you actually need it. Nothing worse than waiting for Vans or UPS
to deliver. I think you will have the fuselage kit building experience and
feel better for it rather than waiting a year for UPS to deliver. Even with
the quickbuilt fuselage, there is still plenty of work to be done to finish
it out after you get it. But if you are too busy to find time to build the
plane with family and work and all of life, maybe you should consider buying
one already completed and pay someone to do your annual condition
inspections going forward. do not archive. Indiana Larry
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: switching from slow build to QB |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Tim Bryan" <flyrv6@bryantechnology.com>
For me the wings were slow and not as much fun. The fuselage provides a lot
more satisfaction with a lot less work. Enjoy it and watch it take shape
rather quickly. You can build it up the quick build stage rather quickly
Then the tedious part comes.
Tim
-------Original Message-------
From: David Fenstermacher
Subject: RV-List: switching from slow build to QB
--> RV-List message posted by: David Fenstermacher <davidfenster@comcast
net>
I have the wings on my slooooo 8 almost done.
I am thinking of switching to the quick build fuse.
I realize you have to send the center section back...
Anyone done this - and what was your experience?
Were there any "issues" from doing this. I wanna get this thing done!
Thanks,
Dave
Message 8
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Cc: <rv-10list@matronics.com>
| Subject: | noise levels in the 10 |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Evan and Megan Johnson" <evmeg@snowcrest.net>
I have been researching sound deadening techniques for my RV 10 project and was
interested to know if anybody has measured cabin noise with a DB meter. Obviously
I am most interested in the 10 but would love to hear of the other models
as well. It would be really great if somebody has measured before and after sound
proofing their plane. Pretty hard on the 10 because of the double floors....you
have to install the soundproof materials before pop riveting down the floor
panels. If anybody is going to Vans for a test ride anytime soon maybe we
could get a sound level from one of their planes to use as a baseline. Vans builds
their planes as light as possible so they will be as loud as you can get.
Just for fun I looked up the sound levels in the Cirrus SR20....95 dBA in cruise.
Much louder than I would have expected.
Evan Johnson
www.evansaviationproducts.com
(530)247-0375
(530)351-1776 cell
Message 9
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--> RV-List message posted by: Louis Willig <larywil@comcast.net>
Dave,
I had a lot of trouble with my -4 after bird damage and repair to my main
gearleg fairing. A heavy wing condition was ultimately cured by carefully
re-adjusting my gear leg fairings. One clue to my problem was that when the
aircraft was held in a level condition, the skid ball was off by a couple
of diameters. I just thought I might add a few more complications to your
problem solving.
Louis
-
Louis I Willig
1640 Oakwood Dr.
Penn Valley, PA 19072
610 668-4964
RV-4, N180PF
190HP IO-360, C/S prop
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: noise levels in the 10 |
--> RV-List message posted by: HCRV6@comcast.net
I recently checked the sound levels in my RV-6. I was careful to note the levels
at approximately ear level and position because I noted a couple of Db difference
from low in the cabin to closer to the canopy(lowder as you get nearer
the canopy level). I measured 97-98 Db in full throttle climb and 95Db in cruise.
I have sound proofing under the front floor carpet and foam padded leather
upholstery in the forward cabin side panels, otherwise no other sound proofing.
I am surprised that the the Cirrus is apparently as loud as the RV-6.
--
Harry Crosby
RV-6 N16CX, 198 hours
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Evan and Megan Johnson" <evmeg@snowcrest.net>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Evan and Megan Johnson" <evmeg@snowcrest.net>
>
> I have been researching sound deadening techniques for my RV 10 project and was
> interested to know if anybody has measured cabin noise with a DB meter.
> Obviously I am most interested in the 10 but would love to hear of the other
> models as well. It would be really great if somebody has measured before and
> after sound proofing their plane. Pretty hard on the 10 because of the double
> floors....you have to install the soundproof materials before pop riveting down
> the floor panels. If anybody is going to Vans for a test ride anytime soon maybe
> we could get a sound level from one of their planes to use as a baseline. Vans
> builds their planes as light as possible so they will be as loud as you can get.
> Just for fun I looked up the sound levels in the Cirrus SR20....95 dBA in
> cruise. Much louder than I would have expected.
> Evan Johnson
> www.evansaviationproducts.com
> (530)247-0375
> (530)351-1776 cell
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: switching from slow build to QB |
--> RV-List message posted by: Dwight Frye <dwight@openweave.org>
Dave,
I did it. I'm building a -7 and had slow-build wings, but late in the game
decided to go with a QB fuselage. The -only- issue is that there is a lot
of lead time ... so make the decision as early as you can. If you are about
done with your wings, you may have to exercise some patience.
Call Van's and they'll tell you exactly what to do (and, yes, you do need
to send your center section back ... I never unwrapped mine from the plastic
bundle and it all went back untouched by me). Worked like a charm for me,
and I'm glad I went that route.
-- Dwight
On Fri Apr 7 22:49:51 2006, David Fenstermacher wrote :
>I have the wings on my slooooo 8 almost done.
>I am thinking of switching to the quick build fuse.
>
>I realize you have to send the center section back...
>Anyone done this - and what was your experience?
>Were there any "issues" from doing this. I wanna get this thing done!
>
>Thanks,
>Dave
Message 12
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--> RV-List message posted by: "charles heathco" <cheathco@junct.com>
I had a heavy rt wing on my 6a when I bought her, my friend Mike took a look at
her and said that the wing had been built with a slope that couldnt be corected,
so I pulled the left flap up a bit and the rt one down a bit, took care of
it. When I had my cherokke, i had same problem, and did the same thing, Charles
Heahco
Message 13
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--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv@comcast.net>
charles heathco wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "charles heathco" <cheathco@junct.com>
>
>I had a heavy rt wing on my 6a when I bought her, my friend Mike took a look at
her and said that the wing had been built with a slope that couldnt be corected,
so I pulled the left flap up a bit and the rt one down a bit, took care of
it. When I had my cherokke, i had same problem, and did the same thing, Charles
Heahco
>
>
>
Charles when you say your friend took a look did he measure it some way
or an "eyeball" look? I would think that it would
be pretty hard to see without some precise measuring. Just curious as to
how he determined a warped wing?
Jerry
do not archive
Message 14
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| Subject: | World's best airplane battery |
--> RV-List message posted by: "BillDube@killacycle.com" <billdube@killacycle.com>
I am considering producing state-of-the art, very lightweight, ultra
long life, starting batteries for experimental aircraft. They won't
be cheap to make, however. I'd like to get some feedback as to the
market for these before I put a big effort into this.
Here are the specs:
14 volts
480 cranking amps
8.8 amp-hours
2.7 pounds (Yes, really just 2.7 pounds.)
10 year warrantee (prorated)
Completely sealed battery
Safer than lead acid or NiCad
Built-in electronic monitoring system warns of over-voltage,
under-voltage, over heating, or internal battery fault.
That is all the good news. The downside is that they will cost about
$475. I'm not sure how many folks would want a 10 year battery (at
least) that weighs about 1/3 as much as an "ordinary" battery, but
costs four times as much.
The specs above are real. I have personally tested these batteries
and they do, indeed, perform this well, so that is not an issue. I
know I can make these. I'm going to make one for myself. The question
is, will folks buy them if I more of them?
Let me know if you think you would be interested in such a high-tech
battery at this cost.
Bill Dube'
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: World's best airplane battery |
--> RV-List message posted by: Chris W <3edcft6@cox.net>
I find your claims a bit hard to believe. The only battery chemistry, I
know of, that can put that many watt hours in that light of a package
are lithium polymer. The price sounds about right for a lithium polymer
battery that size too. I don't know for sure if you can pull that many
amps from a lithium polymer battery, but I do know they are no where
near as safe as SLA or NiCads. There is no way I would put that big of
a lithium polymer battery in a plane I am flying in. I have seen way
too many electric model airplanes blown up or burned down to trust a
lithium polymer in a real plane. If your not talking about lithium
polymer, what is the battery chemistry? Your not going to keep it a
secret for long anyway.
do not archive
BillDube@killacycle.com wrote:
> I am considering producing state-of-the art, very lightweight, ultra
>long life, starting batteries for experimental aircraft. They won't
>be cheap to make, however. I'd like to get some feedback as to the
>market for these before I put a big effort into this.
>
> Here are the specs:
>
>14 volts
>480 cranking amps
>8.8 amp-hours
>2.7 pounds (Yes, really just 2.7 pounds.)
>10 year warrantee (prorated)
>Completely sealed battery
>Safer than lead acid or NiCad
>
>
--
Chris W
KE5GIX
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