Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:23 AM - Re: Fuel Flow Transducer-Injected (Bob Barrow)
2. 04:44 AM - Re: Helmet & Headset ponderings (Larry Bowen)
3. 04:44 AM - Re: Helmet & Headset ponderings (Tim Olson)
4. 05:59 AM - Re: Dakotas (Ron Lee)
5. 06:03 AM - Re: Fuel Flow Transducer-Injected (Dan Checkoway)
6. 06:26 AM - Helmet & Headset ponderings, Oshkosh deals (Glen Matejcek)
7. 06:32 AM - Re: OT - AOPA donation-solicitation phone calls (Dean Van Winkle)
8. 06:51 AM - About to close rudder (Folbrecht, Paul)
9. 07:12 AM - Re: Fuel Flow Transducer-Injected (Phil Birkelbach)
10. 07:23 AM - 6 A is flight level when? (Matt Jurotich)
11. 07:46 AM - Helmet & Headset ponderings (Mickey Coggins)
12. 07:57 AM - Re: Helmet & Headset ponderings (Sherman Butler)
13. 08:52 AM - Re: Fuel Flow Transducer-Injected (Paul Besing)
14. 08:52 AM - Re: Dakotas (John Danielson)
15. 09:18 AM - Fuel Flow Transducer-Injected ()
16. 09:18 AM - Re: Helmet & Headset ponderings (Chris W)
17. 09:25 AM - Re: Fuel Flow Transducer-Injected (Konrad L. Werner)
18. 10:03 AM - Re: Fuel Flow Transducer-Injected (Dwight Frye)
19. 10:03 AM - Re: Fuel Flow Transducer-Injected (Terry Watson)
20. 10:12 AM - Re: Fuel Flow Transducer-Injected (Phil Birkelbach)
21. 10:22 AM - Re: Throttle, Prop, and Mixture cable slack (Phil Birkelbach)
22. 10:38 AM - Re: Fuel Flow Transducer-Injected (dsvs@comcast.net)
23. 10:52 AM - Re: 6 A is flight level when? (sportav8r@aol.com)
24. 11:27 AM - Re: Throttle, Prop, and Mixture cable slack (Ralph E. Capen)
25. 11:44 AM - Re: Fuel Flow Transducer-Injected (Dan Checkoway)
26. 11:54 AM - Re: Fuel Flow Transducer-Injected (Kevin Horton)
27. 01:25 PM - Re: aircraft registration timing (Sherman Butler)
28. 02:55 PM - Re: 6 A is flight level when? (Kevin Horton)
29. 03:11 PM - Re: Helmet & Headset ponderings (Charlie Brame)
30. 03:30 PM - Re: Re: Helmet & Headset ponderings (luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky))
31. 04:49 PM - Re: Re: Helmet & Headset ponderings (Alex Peterson)
32. 04:58 PM - Re: 6 A is flight level when? (Tracy Crook)
33. 05:57 PM - Re: 6 A is flight level when? (Konrad L. Werner)
34. 06:20 PM - Re: Fuel Flow Transducer-Injected (Charlie Kuss)
35. 06:25 PM - Re: 6 A is flight level when? (Kevin Horton)
36. 07:06 PM - Re: Fuel Flow Transducer-Injected (Bob Barrow)
37. 07:06 PM - Re: 6 A is flight level when? (bdjones1965)
38. 07:26 PM - Scott Crossfield (Jerry Isler)
39. 08:36 PM - Re: Dakotas (WPAerial@aol.com)
40. 09:15 PM - Re: 6 A is flight level when? (Randy Lervold)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Flow Transducer-Injected |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bob Barrow" <bobbarrow10@hotmail.com>
Dan, I thought you put your fuel transducer just after the AFP boost pump on
the cabin floor. Are you now unhappy with the results from that position.
>From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
>To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel Flow Transducer-Injected Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006
>19:16:49 -0700
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
>
>In the metered fuel line between the servo and flow divider is about as
>ideal a spot as any imho.
>
>)_( Dan
>RV-7 N714D
>http://www.rvproject.com
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Paul Besing" <pbesing@yahoo.com>
>To:
><rv-list@matronics.com.1.12.SUBJ_HAS_UNIQ_ID.Subject.contains.a.unique.ID>
>Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 6:53 PM
>Subject: RV-List: Fuel Flow Transducer-Injected
>
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: Paul Besing <pbesing@yahoo.com>
> >
> > First question, where's a good place to put this in
> > the stream of fuel? I'm not too savvy on injected
> > engines.
> >
> > While talking with Electronics International today, I
> > was told that since there is a return of unused fuel,
> > I'll need TWO transducers and a little box that
> > computes the unused fuel. This adds about $300 to the
> > price of my fuel flow, and am wondering if it's worth
> > it now. Thoughts?
> >
> > Paul Besing
> > RV-4
> > N73DD
> > Arizona (For Now)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
http://mobilecentral.ninemsn.com.au/mcmobileHotmail/home.aspx
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Helmet & Headset ponderings |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
Another option priced in between the two you are considering:
http://www.telex.com/aircraft/products.nsf/pages/Stratus50Digital
--
Larry Bowen
Larry@BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
Vanremog@aol.com said:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Vanremog@aol.com
>
>
> In a message dated 4/18/2006 9:17:16 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
> czechsix@juno.com writes:
>
> I've been looking at ANR headsets and figure if I'm gonna spend some
> dough, might as well get a good one and only cry once. I'm sure Bose is
> the best but I can't quite believe the cost/benefit tradeoff is worth the
> $1K price tag. So I'm looking at Lightspeed's top-of-the-line Thirty 3G
> instead. It is cheap by comparison at about half the price of the Bose X
> (iPilot.com has the Thirty 3G for $559 with free shipping).
>
>
> =============================================
>
> I have two Thirty 3Gs and they are okay although I hate the plastic and
> would encourage you to evaluate the ear seals (I didn't get good results
> from the
> new style ear seals, so I swapped them out for the older style). I would
> agree with others that the Bose X headsets are probably a superior
> product
> overall and if my stocks returned better numbers I would have splurged
> (invested)
> in Bose Xs as well, and with gas prices as high as they are we're not
> flying
> quite as much as we used to.
>
>
> GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A, C/S, Flying 780hrs, Silicon Valley, CA)
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Helmet & Headset ponderings |
--> RV-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
For the past few years I had the opportunity to use 3 types of
ANR headsets. For my family, I bought the ANR upgrade kits and
put them into both some nice Flightcoms and into some kids
headsets so everyone had ANR. They worked really well. But,
just like David Clarks, they clamped a bit hard and after a
few hours you notice and have to start shifting them around to
keep comfortable.
I also got to use some lightspeeds of 3 various models. The
ANR and music quality of the ANR upgrade kits was every bit as
good as the lightspeeds. The lightspeeds seemed fairly
comfortable, but they're wide as heck, and actually in some
planes will be banging into the sides of the plane. And, IMHO,
they look goofy sticking way out the side of your head like that.
Also, with 3 pair, we did end up sending one pair back for
repair, which seems strange for a headset...they should be
bullet proof.
This year, with the newly minted RV-10 to fly, I decided that
spending that much on a long-term airplane, I should really
consider flying like I was going to be doing it long term. I
got 2 Bose sets. After using them, they were so much more
incredibly comfortable, and have such good music quality,
that I can say that of course they're not worth $1000....unless
you really want some good comfort. My 7 year old started
outgrowing her kids set, and said they were squeezing her head.
I made the mistake of having her try the Bose. She immeditely,
with no prompting, said they felt much better on her head.
So, it was off to market to buy a 3rd pair. At this point I
have given in and resigned myself that I still have one more
kid to equip with Bose within a year or two...but considering
the comfort, I think it'll even be worth it for a 4/5 year old.
They really are nice. The Bass in the musing is very good
to, which shocked me, as there were a couple of songs I played
that actually had me take pause to see if that low rumble
was in the engine or the song. ;)
FWIW, I really like the permanent installed jacks...very handy
and compact, and no batteries to worry about. I plan to just
buy 1 extra cord so if I go in someone elses plane I can just
swap cords and use batteries.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Mickey Coggins wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
>
>> So...I've been looking at ANR headsets and figure if I'm gonna spend some
>> dough, might as well get a good one and only cry once. I'm sure Bose is
>> the best but I can't quite believe the cost/benefit tradeoff is worth the
>> $1K price tag. ...
>
> It is a lot of money, that's for sure. Before I had bought my Bose X
> headsets a few years ago, I had only used David Clark. I didn't have
> the chance to try many other headsets, since there are no pilot shops
> around here. All the various ones I had tried seemed fine, but I
> decided to order the Bose anyway, even though I had never tried a
> set. They claim you can send them back. I'm happy with them, and
> if I had invested the extra $500 in the stock market, it would be
> worth about $300! :-)
>
>
Message 4
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--> RV-List message posted by: Ron Lee <ronlee@pcisys.net>
The Black Hills is a pretty area. In addition to Mt Rushmore you
are not far from Devil's Tower (Close Encounters movie) in NE WY
near Hulett (North of I-90) (Around 104 deg 42.9 min West and
44 deg 35.4 min North)
Ron Lee
Do not archive
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Flow Transducer-Injected |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
> Dan, I thought you put your fuel transducer just after the AFP boost pump
> on
> the cabin floor. Are you now unhappy with the results from that position.
I did, and I don't have any problems. But it's not the best location from a
"scientific" standpoint. ;-) Pressure drop across the transducer when it's
on the suction side means more chances of vapor lock. And why not put it
where it "matters" most for accuracy? In the metered fuel line is ideal
from what I understand, since it's under positive pressure (as opposed to
suction), and it's measuring the ACTUAL flow of fuel to the cylinders.
Just my 2 cents.
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
Message 6
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| Subject: | Helmet & Headset ponderings, Oshkosh deals |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Glen Matejcek" <aerobubba@earthlink.net>
Hi Mark, et al-
RE: does anybody know if Lightspeed might have a better
deal available at Oshkosh?
FWIW, I bought a pair of Sennheisers ANR's at just under $400 each at OSH.
I'm not airborne yet so I can't speak definitively on their performance,
but I believe it to be quite good.
Also, as a general rule, I make sure the vendors know I'm seriously
comparison shopping. I'll grid out my wish list with my shopping list down
the edge of the paper, and vendors across the top. I fill in the squares
as I talk to them. At least one, usually Pacific Coast Avionics, will cut
to the chase and make me an offer I can't refuse. It may sound silly or
trite, but I've saved a whoooole lot of money that way.
As ever, FWIW-
Glen Matejcek
aerobubba@earthlink.net
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: OT - AOPA donation-solicitation phone calls |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dean Van Winkle" <dvanwinkle@royell.net>
Matt and Dale
I believe that this is the third year in a row that I have had a
solicitation call from AOPA Air Safety Foundation. Each time I have told
them to send a notice to me and I will respond with a check, just to ensure
that it is a legitimate call. They respond promptly. I plan to attend one
of their Safety Seminars in Springfield, Illinois next week. I agree that
AOPA is a good cause.
Dean Van Winkle
RV-9A Fuselage/Finish
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Dralle" <dralle@matronics.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 12:03 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: OT - AOPA donation-solicitation phone calls
> --> RV-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
>
> At 04:18 AM 4/18/2006 Tuesday, you wrote:
>>--> RV-List message posted by: "Dale Ensing" <densing@carolina.rr.com>
>>
>>
>>Have been a member of AOPA for 20 years and do not remember ever getting a
>>phone solicitation from them. Is this a scam?
>>Dale Ensing
>>do not achieve
>
> No, I don't think it is. I got a "reminder call" last year too and it was
> legit. They are pretty persistent, that's for sure. Its a good cause,
> though, if you value your right to fly in the US.
>
> Matt
>
>
> Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
> 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
> http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | About to close rudder |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Folbrecht, Paul" <PFolbrecht@starkinvestments.com>
Finally back on the project again after a 3-week break due to an
extended biz trip. Next step is riveting on the 2nd rudder skin and
then doing the TE. I am nearly certain there is nothing that needs to
go in there as the light/strobe is in the bottom fairing. Anything I
might not have thought of?
Paul
9A QB #1176
Do not archive
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Flow Transducer-Injected |
--> RV-List message posted by: Phil Birkelbach <phil@petrasoft.net>
I mounted mine in basically the same position that Dan did except that
mine is further forward and attached to the floor. I plan to move it
this weekend to where Dan put his. I think that the vibration on the
floor is causing it to be WAY off. It shows about 10% higher rate than
what I am actually flowing and turning the boost pump on will give it
another 10% on top of that. With the airplane sitting in the hangar
it's right on the money.
Dan,
How did you attach yours? Is it bolted to something or is the tubing
holding it?
Godspeed,
Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas
RV-7 N727WB
http://www.myrv7.com
Dan Checkoway wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
>
>
>
>>Dan, I thought you put your fuel transducer just after the AFP boost pump
>>on
>>the cabin floor. Are you now unhappy with the results from that position.
>>
>>
>
>I did, and I don't have any problems. But it's not the best location from a
>"scientific" standpoint. ;-) Pressure drop across the transducer when it's
>on the suction side means more chances of vapor lock. And why not put it
>where it "matters" most for accuracy? In the metered fuel line is ideal
>from what I understand, since it's under positive pressure (as opposed to
>suction), and it's measuring the ACTUAL flow of fuel to the cylinders.
>
>Just my 2 cents.
>
>)_( Dan
>RV-7 N714D
>http://www.rvproject.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | 6 A is flight level when? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Matt Jurotich <mjurotich@hst.nasa.gov>
I am near to getting my RV 6A back in the air after a complete
electrical and panel rebuild. I plan on redoing weight and
balance. With a slider is the top rail of the slider parallel to the
top longeron? The top longeron is Van's reference for on the ground
level. I presume the top longeron is "level" when in straight and
level flight.
Thanks
Matthew M. Jurotich
e-mail mail to: <mjurotich@hst.nasa.gov>
phone : 301-286-5919
Message 11
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| Subject: | Helmet & Headset ponderings |
--> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
Brian Lloyd wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
> ...
>
> And there is one other thing that I have never seen anyone talk about
> with headsets -- the quality of the microphone. ...
I've often thought about this, but have not found an easy way
to test it. The normal "radio check" request from a tower
or ATC usually doesn't get too deep into the quality of the
sound. Any suggestions?
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 finishing
do not archive
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Helmet & Headset ponderings |
--> RV-List message posted by: Sherman Butler <lsbrv7a@yahoo.com>
Headset pirep
I started with a Sigtronics standard headset, and would miss calls. I bought
a Light speed 20X and was really impressed with the difference, and eventually
bought a 25X. Both headsets plastic parts broke on occasion, and when both
were broken at the same time I decided to buy the new earpiece Lightspeeds. The
delivery date was pushed back a couple of times so I canceled the order. I
bought the Boise. The size difference is similar to the difference between a
volleyball and a softball. They are the best. My radio problems essentially
disappeared. Good communication with the tower. I feel much safer using the
Boise headset, and highly recommend them.
Sherman Butler
RV-7a Empennage
Idaho Falls
---------------------------------
Message 13
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| Subject: | Fuel Flow Transducer-Injected |
--> RV-List message posted by: Paul Besing <pbesing@yahoo.com>
Dont' really know...I've got the cowl off right now
and it's kind of confusing...which is why I asked the
question in the first place...I know that some Cessnas
have this feature (it goes into a 3rd small storage
tank in the cowl) and bonanzas do as well.
So is it my understanding that I do not need this fuel
return? Seems like an aweful lot of fuel to not
return (maybe 1 gallon per hour). The plane was built
17 years ago, and has been that way ever since, with 5
owners, and no problems.
Paul Besing
--- Stein Bruch <stein@steinair.com> wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch"
> <stein@steinair.com>
>
> Wow! What kind of plumbing do you have that allows
> fuel to be ported back to
> a tank that you're not drawing from? Both the
> Bendix/Precision injection
> systems shouldn't port fuel back to any tank during
> normal flight
> operation....even with a purge valve (normally used
> only for starting and
> shutdown) and most of us flying with the old antique
> Bendix/Precision FI's
> don't even have a return line. I know the subies
> and auto conversions are
> different...but...I'm REALLY curious here...do
> tell!!
>
> Cheers,
> Stein.
>
> do not archive
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf
> Of Paul Besing
> Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 11:21 PM
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel Flow Transducer-Injected
>
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Paul Besing
> <pbesing@yahoo.com>
>
> Contrary to the fuel return on my airplane. Not
> sure
> what type of injection it is, but the fuel return is
> substantial in flight. I've run 30 mins on the left
> tank, and after 30 mins on the right tank, the left
> tank is full again.
>
> Paul Besing
>
> > The API opinion on the amount of fuel returned is
> > that it is so little
> > (startup and shutdown) that putting a Flowscan on
> > the return line would
> > be of little benefit.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
>
>
> Admin.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 14
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--> RV-List message posted by: "John Danielson" <johnd@wlcwyo.com>
Check out the new airport at Hulet, WY (W43).
It has self serve gas.
There is a courtesy car (old police car).
I was the project engineer for the airport in 2001-2003.
John L. Danielson
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron Lee
Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 6:54 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Dakotas
--> RV-List message posted by: Ron Lee <ronlee@pcisys.net>
The Black Hills is a pretty area. In addition to Mt Rushmore you
are not far from Devil's Tower (Close Encounters movie) in NE WY
near Hulett (North of I-90) (Around 104 deg 42.9 min West and
44 deg 35.4 min North)
Ron Lee
Do not archive
Message 15
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| Subject: | Fuel Flow Transducer-Injected |
--> RV-List message posted by: <erichweaver@cox.net>
My io-360B1B (vertical induction) from Aerosport Power came with the purge valve
installed adjacent to the flow divider. I am tempted to remove it to avoid
another fuel line and hole through the firewall, but havent yet.
I was a little surprised to see that everyone had installed the fuel flow transducer
in front of the firewall. Not that its bad mind you, just not where I installed
mine. Mine is aft of the firewall, between the boost pump and the firewall,
where it seems to fit nicely under the cover plate. Now you are all messing
with my head making me feel uncomfortable! Anything wrong with my location?
With the exception of the purge line, all the firewall forward fuel lines were
pre-made, and supplied with my engine, so I didnt want to waste one of those by
adding in the fuel transducer. Since I had to fabricate the fuel lines aft of
the firewall anyway, it was an easy decision to put the transducer back there.
Whats really throwing me is that Dan Checkoway's web site shows the transducer back by the fuel booster pump as well (see http://www.rvproject.com/20030520.html). But I see Dan is now recommending the firewall forward location as well? What gives? Somebody is messin' wit my head.
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Helmet & Headset ponderings |
--> RV-List message posted by: Chris W <3edcft6@cox.net>
Mickey Coggins wrote:
>I've often thought about this, but have not found an easy way
>to test it. The normal "radio check" request from a tower
>or ATC usually doesn't get too deep into the quality of the
>sound. Any suggestions?
>
>
If you know any amateur radio operators, you can have one of them fly
with you and plug the headset into a handheld transceiver, with the
right adapters. Other amateur radio guys will give you reports on the
quality of the audio all day long.
do not archive
--
Chris W
KE5GIX
Gift Giving Made Easy
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Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Flow Transducer-Injected |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Konrad L. Werner" <klwerner@comcast.net>
Paul,
Would you have any pics on this installation of yours? Like they say: A picture
is worth 1000 words.
Konrad
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Besing
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 9:52 AM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Fuel Flow Transducer-Injected
--> RV-List message posted by: Paul Besing <pbesing@yahoo.com>
Dont' really know...I've got the cowl off right now
and it's kind of confusing...which is why I asked the
question in the first place...I know that some Cessnas
have this feature (it goes into a 3rd small storage
tank in the cowl) and bonanzas do as well.
So is it my understanding that I do not need this fuel
return? Seems like an aweful lot of fuel to not
return (maybe 1 gallon per hour). The plane was built
17 years ago, and has been that way ever since, with 5
owners, and no problems.
Paul Besing
--- Stein Bruch <stein@steinair.com> wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch"
> <stein@steinair.com>
>
> Wow! What kind of plumbing do you have that allows
> fuel to be ported back to
> a tank that you're not drawing from? Both the
> Bendix/Precision injection
> systems shouldn't port fuel back to any tank during
> normal flight
> operation....even with a purge valve (normally used
> only for starting and
> shutdown) and most of us flying with the old antique
> Bendix/Precision FI's
> don't even have a return line. I know the subies
> and auto conversions are
> different...but...I'm REALLY curious here...do
> tell!!
>
> Cheers,
> Stein.
>
> do not archive
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf
> Of Paul Besing
> Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 11:21 PM
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel Flow Transducer-Injected
>
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Paul Besing
> <pbesing@yahoo.com>
>
> Contrary to the fuel return on my airplane. Not
> sure
> what type of injection it is, but the fuel return is
> substantial in flight. I've run 30 mins on the left
> tank, and after 30 mins on the right tank, the left
> tank is full again.
>
> Paul Besing
>
> > The API opinion on the amount of fuel returned is
> > that it is so little
> > (startup and shutdown) that putting a Flowscan on
> > the return line would
> > be of little benefit.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
>
>
> Admin.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Flow Transducer-Injected |
--> RV-List message posted by: Dwight Frye <dwight@openweave.org>
The one down-side to installing the transducer where Dan his his (and as you
noted he is now suggesting a new location too) is that it puts the transducer
on the suction-side of the engine driven fuel pump. The transducer acts as
a restriction in the line, and my understanding is that if you pull a fluid
through a restriction you will have a pressure drop across the restriction.
Given the rather low vapor pressure of avgas (or, gasoline in general) this
reduces your margin of protection against vapor lock in the feed lines. It
is possible (again, I am not an expert but am simply passing along some of
the things I learned in a fuel injection class) that on a really hot day
vapor could form on the engine-side of the transducer as the engine driven
pump tries to pull fuel. This would be a "Bad Thing (tm)". :)
Is this guaranteed to happen? No. Clearly many have flown with their fuel
flow transducers on the suction side of the fuel pump without incident. But
once the logic was outlined (and once some vapor pressure graphs were
examined in detail) I have made the decision to install my transducer in
the line between the throttle-body and the flow divider. YMMV.
-- Dwight
On Wed Apr 19 12:16:08 2006, erichweaver@cox.net wrote :
>My io-360B1B (vertical induction) from Aerosport Power came with the purge valve
installed adjacent to the flow divider. I am tempted to remove it to avoid
another fuel line and hole through the firewall, but havent yet.
>
>I was a little surprised to see that everyone had installed the fuel flow transducer
in front of the firewall. Not that its bad mind you, just not where I
installed mine. Mine is aft of the firewall, between the boost pump and the firewall,
where it seems to fit nicely under the cover plate. Now you are all messing
with my head making me feel uncomfortable! Anything wrong with my location?
>
>With the exception of the purge line, all the firewall forward fuel lines were
pre-made, and supplied with my engine, so I didnt want to waste one of those
by adding in the fuel transducer. Since I had to fabricate the fuel lines aft
of the firewall anyway, it was an easy decision to put the transducer back there.
>
>Whats really throwing me is that Dan Checkoway's web site shows the transducer back by the fuel booster pump as well (see http://www.rvproject.com/20030520.html). But I see Dan is now recommending the firewall forward location as well? What gives? Somebody is messin' wit my head.
Message 19
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| Subject: | Fuel Flow Transducer-Injected |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Terry Watson" <terry@tcwatson.com>
Eric,
I too have an IO-360-B1B with Airflow Performance fuel injection. (You
didn't say who made the fuel injection, but I am assuming it is Airflow
Performance). There was some discussion on this list awhile back about this,
but the purge valve is apparently necessary to shut the engine down. The
engine shutdown checklist says to leave the mixture at full-rich and put the
purge valve control to off position.
Page 21 of my Airflow Performance manual says that when the mixture is at
idle cut-off, there is "approximately 1.0 to 3.0 pph leakage in this
position" which is apparently enough to keep the engine running.
Terry
RV-8A #80729 Baffles
Seattle
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of erichweaver@cox.net
Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 9:16 AM
Subject: RV-List: Fuel Flow Transducer-Injected
--> RV-List message posted by: <erichweaver@cox.net>
My io-360B1B (vertical induction) from Aerosport Power came with the purge
valve installed adjacent to the flow divider. I am tempted to remove it to
avoid another fuel line and hole through the firewall, but havent yet.
I was a little surprised to see that everyone had installed the fuel flow
transducer in front of the firewall. Not that its bad mind you, just not
where I installed mine. Mine is aft of the firewall, between the boost pump
and the firewall, where it seems to fit nicely under the cover plate. Now
you are all messing with my head making me feel uncomfortable! Anything
wrong with my location?
With the exception of the purge line, all the firewall forward fuel lines
were pre-made, and supplied with my engine, so I didnt want to waste one of
those by adding in the fuel transducer. Since I had to fabricate the fuel
lines aft of the firewall anyway, it was an easy decision to put the
transducer back there.
Whats really throwing me is that Dan Checkoway's web site shows the
transducer back by the fuel booster pump as well (see
http://www.rvproject.com/20030520.html). But I see Dan is now recommending
the firewall forward location as well? What gives? Somebody is messin' wit
my head.
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Flow Transducer-Injected |
--> RV-List message posted by: Phil Birkelbach <phil@petrasoft.net>
I think that all Dan is saying is that the "Theoretically Perfect"
solution is between the servo and the flow divider, but there are more
practical choices like putting it where you describe. Mine is smack in
the middle of the floor between the boost pump and the firewall. It
doesn't work very well and I'm gonna move it back to where Dan has his
and see if that improves it any. It think it's picking up vibration and
it's causing high readings. That floor shakes pretty good.
BTW you will love that purge valve. I can start mine in two blades when
it's heat soaked, and I like the idea of killing the engine with the
purge valve instead of the mixture. It will completely bleed off the
fuel pressure, so that there is no way fuel can get into the cylinders
while sitting on the ramp. Seems much safer to me. I'd suggest
installing a spring to pull the purge valve closed in case the control
cable breaks. Also make sure that the control cable is of the locking
variety and don't put it next to the cabin heat knob lest ye grab the
wrong one whilst flying, and ruineth thy day.
Godspeed,
Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas
RV-7 N727WB
http://www.myrv7.com
erichweaver@cox.net wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: <erichweaver@cox.net>
>
>My io-360B1B (vertical induction) from Aerosport Power came with the purge valve
installed adjacent to the flow divider. I am tempted to remove it to avoid
another fuel line and hole through the firewall, but havent yet.
>
>I was a little surprised to see that everyone had installed the fuel flow transducer
in front of the firewall. Not that its bad mind you, just not where I
installed mine. Mine is aft of the firewall, between the boost pump and the firewall,
where it seems to fit nicely under the cover plate. Now you are all messing
with my head making me feel uncomfortable! Anything wrong with my location?
>
>With the exception of the purge line, all the firewall forward fuel lines were
pre-made, and supplied with my engine, so I didnt want to waste one of those
by adding in the fuel transducer. Since I had to fabricate the fuel lines aft
of the firewall anyway, it was an easy decision to put the transducer back there.
>
>Whats really throwing me is that Dan Checkoway's web site shows the transducer back by the fuel booster pump as well (see http://www.rvproject.com/20030520.html). But I see Dan is now recommending the firewall forward location as well? What gives? Somebody is messin' wit my head.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 21
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|
| Subject: | Re: Throttle, Prop, and Mixture cable slack |
--> RV-List message posted by: Phil Birkelbach <phil@petrasoft.net>
I have quite a bit of slack in mine aft of the firewall and they work
fine. I didn't measure it but it's probably close to what you
describe. Just route it somewhere out of the way and keep the bend
radius as large as possible.
Godspeed,
Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas
RV-7 N727WB
http://www.myrv7.com
Ralph E. Capen wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen@earthlink.net>
>
>Fellow listers,
>
>I'm working on my firewall foreward and since I had already made some decisions
before the firewall foreward kit was available, I can't use the stock locations
for my throttle and mixture cables. The prop cable went in to the stock location
nicely with the one hole eyeball fitting.
>
>There seems to be just a little slack in that cable - just enough to allow flexibility
to keep it out of the way.
>
>How much should I have? Upon measuring the cables that I got for the throttle
and mixture after putting them in where I could, I have 6" too much throttle
cable and 7" too much mixture cable. These are straight shot from the panel/console
to the eyeball passthrough the firewall. on the firewall side, I have
sufficient 'Lycoming wet dog shake room'. I'm thinking on the aft side of the
firewall, I don't need much wiggle room other than to avoid stuff that could
get in the way and wear the cable.
>
>Your thoughts please,
>Ralph
>RV6AQB N822AR @ N06 - fun firewall foreward!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Flow Transducer-Injected |
--> RV-List message posted by: dsvs@comcast.net
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Phil Birkelbach <phil@petrasoft.net>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Phil Birkelbach <phil@petrasoft.net>
I just talked to the techs at Air Flow Performance. They told me that the best
place is between the servo and the purge valve. They also said that the transducer
will work fine if you mount it vertically in that line. They claim that
they do it all the time. I am going to try it that way and see how it works.
They also said to not mount it on the engine. Don
> I think that all Dan is saying is that the "Theoretically Perfect"
> solution is between the servo and the flow divider, but there are more
> practical choices like putting it where you describe. Mine is smack in
> the middle of the floor between the boost pump and the firewall. It
> doesn't work very well and I'm gonna move it back to where Dan has his
> and see if that improves it any. It think it's picking up vibration and
> it's causing high readings. That floor shakes pretty good.
>
> BTW you will love that purge valve. I can start mine in two blades when
> it's heat soaked, and I like the idea of killing the engine with the
> purge valve instead of the mixture. It will completely bleed off the
> fuel pressure, so that there is no way fuel can get into the cylinders
> while sitting on the ramp. Seems much safer to me. I'd suggest
> installing a spring to pull the purge valve closed in case the control
> cable breaks. Also make sure that the control cable is of the locking
> variety and don't put it next to the cabin heat knob lest ye grab the
> wrong one whilst flying, and ruineth thy day.
>
> Godspeed,
>
> Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas
> RV-7 N727WB
> http//www.myrv7.com
>
>
>
> erichweaver@cox.net wrote:
>
> >--> RV-List message posted by: <erichweaver@cox.net>
> >
> >My io-360B1B (vertical induction) from Aerosport Power came with the purge
> valve installed adjacent to the flow divider. I am tempted to remove it to
> avoid another fuel line and hole through the firewall, but havent yet.
> >
> >I was a little surprised to see that everyone had installed the fuel flow
> transducer in front of the firewall. Not that its bad mind you, just not where
> I installed mine. Mine is aft of the firewall, between the boost pump and the
> firewall, where it seems to fit nicely under the cover plate. Now you are all
> messing with my head making me feel uncomfortable! Anything wrong with my
> location?
> >
> >With the exception of the purge line, all the firewall forward fuel lines were
> pre-made, and supplied with my engine, so I didnt want to waste one of those
by
> adding in the fuel transducer. Since I had to fabricate the fuel lines aft of
> the firewall anyway, it was an easy decision to put the transducer back there.
> >
> >Whats really throwing me is that Dan Checkoway's web site shows the transducer
> back by the fuel booster pump as well (see
> http://www.rvproject.com/20030520.html). But I see Dan is now recommending the
> firewall forward location as well? What gives? Somebody is messin' wit my
> head.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: 6 A is flight level when? |
--> RV-List message posted by: sportav8r@aol.com
That's (presumed to be) correct. Someday, I want to see numbers where someone
has done their w&b with wheels level and with top longeron level, to see if the
difference is truly worth worrying about. It's a lot of work to jack these
planes into that configuration and chock the wheels and scales to correct heights
(or dig a hole under the nosewheel ;-). I may do it myself if I get bored...
-Stormy
-----Original Message-----
From: Matt Jurotich <mjurotich@hst.nasa.gov>
Sent: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 10:19:00 -0400
Subject: RV-List: 6 A is flight level when?
--> RV-List message posted by: Matt Jurotich <mjurotich@hst.nasa.gov>
I am near to getting my RV 6A back in the air after a complete
electrical and panel rebuild. I plan on redoing weight and
balance. With a slider is the top rail of the slider parallel to the
top longeron? The top longeron is Van's reference for on the ground
level. I presume the top longeron is "level" when in straight and
level flight.
Thanks
Matthew M. Jurotich
e-mail mail to: <mjurotich@hst.nasa.gov>
phone : 301-286-5919
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Throttle, Prop, and Mixture cable slack |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen@earthlink.net>
Phil,
Thanks for your 'been there - done that' answer.
I'll try it before I swap cables.
Ralph
-----Original Message-----
>From: Phil Birkelbach <phil@petrasoft.net>
>Sent: Apr 19, 2006 1:16 PM
>To: rv-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Throttle, Prop, and Mixture cable slack
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: Phil Birkelbach <phil@petrasoft.net>
>
>I have quite a bit of slack in mine aft of the firewall and they work
>fine. I didn't measure it but it's probably close to what you
>describe. Just route it somewhere out of the way and keep the bend
>radius as large as possible.
>
>Godspeed,
>
>Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas
>RV-7 N727WB
>http://www.myrv7.com
>
>
>Ralph E. Capen wrote:
>
>>--> RV-List message posted by: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen@earthlink.net>
>>
>>Fellow listers,
>>
>>I'm working on my firewall foreward and since I had already made some decisions
before the firewall foreward kit was available, I can't use the stock locations
for my throttle and mixture cables. The prop cable went in to the stock
location nicely with the one hole eyeball fitting.
>>
>>There seems to be just a little slack in that cable - just enough to allow flexibility
to keep it out of the way.
>>
>>How much should I have? Upon measuring the cables that I got for the throttle
and mixture after putting them in where I could, I have 6" too much throttle
cable and 7" too much mixture cable. These are straight shot from the panel/console
to the eyeball passthrough the firewall. on the firewall side, I have
sufficient 'Lycoming wet dog shake room'. I'm thinking on the aft side of the
firewall, I don't need much wiggle room other than to avoid stuff that could
get in the way and wear the cable.
>>
>>Your thoughts please,
>>Ralph
>>RV6AQB N822AR @ N06 - fun firewall foreward!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Flow Transducer-Injected |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
> How did you attach yours? Is it bolted to something or is the tubing
> holding it?
It's resting on a silicone pad. The tubing is somewhat rigid. Mine is very
accurate with the exception of when the boost pump is running.
)_( Dan
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Flow Transducer-Injected |
--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
On 19 Apr 2006, at 11:52, Paul Besing wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Paul Besing <pbesing@yahoo.com>
>
> Dont' really know...I've got the cowl off right now
> and it's kind of confusing...which is why I asked the
> question in the first place...I know that some Cessnas
> have this feature (it goes into a 3rd small storage
> tank in the cowl) and bonanzas do as well.
>
> So is it my understanding that I do not need this fuel
> return? Seems like an aweful lot of fuel to not
> return (maybe 1 gallon per hour). The plane was built
> 17 years ago, and has been that way ever since, with 5
> owners, and no problems.
Where is that fuel return line coming from?
If it is coming from the fuel injection servo, which make and model
servo is it?
It may be coming from a pressure regulating valve that is part of the
high pressure fuel pump. If that is the case, most people run the
fuel return into a T in the fuel line from the fuel selector valve.
A small number of people use an expensive fuel selector from Andair
that has two valves controlled by one knob. That allows you to send
the return fuel to whatever tank is currently providing fuel, which
avoids the problem of over filling a tank with the return fuel.
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
Message 27
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|
| Subject: | Re: aircraft registration timing |
--> RV-List message posted by: Sherman Butler <lsbrv7a@yahoo.com>
As a traveling contract engineer, I have found each state have complety different
tax systems. In my home state Oklahoma an excise tax of 3.25% that is due
when registered on the kit and parts not previously taxed, and can only be payed
to a registered N nyuber. Other states want the "use tax/sales" as you go.
Do not archive.
Im at the point in construction of my RV-7A where I need to starting thinking about
registration and the DAR signoff. I have been delaying registration since
I know it will trigger a request for tax money from the state (California). EAA
says to allow 3-6 months for registration paperwork to go through the system.
What kind of time frame
Sherman Butler
RV-7a Empennage
Idaho Falls
---------------------------------
Message 28
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|
| Subject: | Re: 6 A is flight level when? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
On 19 Apr 2006, at 10:19, Matt Jurotich wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Matt Jurotich <mjurotich@hst.nasa.gov>
>
> I presume the top longeron is "level" when in straight and
> level flight.
The pitch attitude in straight and level flight will depend on the
airspeed, weight and flap angle, and to a less extent, on CG.
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
Message 29
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| Subject: | RE: Helmet & Headset ponderings |
--> RV-List message posted by: Charlie Brame <chasb@satx.rr.com>
I have a pair of Lightspeed 20XLs that I have had about four years. The
noise abatement capabilities are great and the headsets are super
comfortable, if a bit bulky. After about three years I had to replace
the ear pads because the thin leather deteriorated. Lightspeed sent me
two new sets of ear pads at no cost, including shipping.
I had the opportunity to compare my 20XLs with a Bose set. Up against my
very noisy air compressor, one was slightly quieter with ANR turned off,
and the other was slightly better using ANR. Unfortunately, I can't
remember which did what. In both cases, the difference was minimal. The
upshot is, the Lightspeeds were at least the equal of the much more
expensive Bose. I will admit to never using a Bose set in the aircraft.
Charlie Brame
RV-6A N11CB
San Antonio
---------------------------------
> Time: 09:14:37 PM PST US
> Subject: RV-List: Helmet & Headset ponderings
> From: Mark E Navratil <czechsix@juno.com>
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Mark E Navratil <czechsix@juno.com>
>
> Guys,
>
> I've been enjoying my trusty helmet but as the wx turns warmer I'm
> thinking I'll probably break down and get a good ANR headset. The head
> bucket is just too hot to wear when it gets into the upper 80's and
> beyond. The other thing I've noticed is that the Oregon Aero earseals in
> my helmet get extremely soft with higher temps and don't seem to seal as
> well as they do in wintertime....they're very comfortable (as advertised)
> but the ANR has a hard time keeping up with the noise level and I find it
> bothersome after several hours in the air. FWIW I have the Headsets Inc
> ANR in my helmet earcups and I imagine there are better systems available
> from the likes of Bose and Lightspeed.
>
> So...I've been looking at ANR headsets and figure if I'm gonna spend some
> dough, might as well get a good one and only cry once. I'm sure Bose is
> the best but I can't quite believe the cost/benefit tradeoff is worth the
> $1K price tag. So I'm looking at Lightspeed's top-of-the-line Thirty 3G
> instead. It is cheap by comparison at about half the price of the Bose X
> (iPilot.com has the Thirty 3G for $559 with free shipping).
>
> Couple questions: does anybody know if Lightspeed might have a better
> deal available at Oshkosh? If they have really good show specials it
> might be worth waiting...
>
> Also, any pireps on the Thirty 3G series or similar high-end Lightspeed
> model would be appreciated. In general I've heard that Lightspeed
> headsets are comfortable and work well, sometimes break but have good
> factory support to replace parts. One of my hangarmates has a pair of
> well-used Lightspeeds that have the thin covering pealing away from the
> foam earseals and head cushions. Still works but looks like crap...
>
> Thanks as always for the input,
>
> --Mark Navratil
> Cedar Rapids, Iowa
> RV-8A N2D flying 25.0 hours now, first oil change just completed...
>
>
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Helmet & Headset ponderings |
--> RV-List message posted by: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky)
Well, I can say I have compared both in the back of an RV8, in flight, side by
side and my ears couldn't tell the difference as far as noise attenuation goes.
However, the Bose was a much better fit for the back of an RV8. The canopy
tapers and since they don't stick out in any direction much I never hit the canopy
with them. Can't say that for the Lightspeeds. The Bose are also noticeably
lighter and fold up and out of the way easier when not in use. I didn't
fly long enough to appreciate that but I'm sure on a long CC the Bose would be
easier on the ears and jaw.
Was I impressed enough to buy the Bose for myself? Nope but they did make me appreciate
a design that differs physically than the Lightspeeds. I instead bought
the ANR version QFRXCc. Really good all around product and has the basic
same slim profile of the Bose as compared to the Lightspeeds for the back seat.
Plus they stay on your head better for aerobatics. They have a full range
of features regardless of price.
http://www.anrheadsets.com/productsqfrx2.asp
Nothing drives an engineer up the wall like having options and making choices
;-)
-------------- Original message --------------
From: Charlie Brame <chasb@satx.rr.com>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Charlie Brame
>
> I have a pair of Lightspeed 20XLs that I have had about four years. The
> noise abatement capabilities are great and the headsets are super
> comfortable, if a bit bulky. After about three years I had to replace
> the ear pads because the thin leather deteriorated. Lightspeed sent me
> two new sets of ear pads at no cost, including shipping.
>
> I had the opportunity to compare my 20XLs with a Bose set. Up against my
> very noisy air compressor, one was slightly quieter with ANR turned off,
> and the other was slightly better using ANR. Unfortunately, I can't
> remember which did what. In both cases, the difference was minimal. The
> upshot is, the Lightspeeds were at least the equal of the much more
> expensive Bose. I will admit to never using a Bose set in the aircraft.
>
> Charlie Brame
> RV-6A N11CB
> San Antonio
>
> ---------------------------------
>
> > Time: 09:14:37 PM PST US
> > Subject: RV-List: Helmet & Headset ponderings
> > From: Mark E Navratil
> >
> > --> RV-List message posted by: Mark E Navratil
> >
> > Guys,
> >
> > I've been enjoying my trusty helmet but as the wx turns warmer I'm
> > thinking I'll probably break down and get a good ANR headset. The head
> > bucket is just too hot to wear when it gets into the upper 80's and
> > beyond. The other thing I've noticed is that the Oregon Aero earseals in
> > my helmet get extremely soft with higher temps and don't seem to seal as
> > well as they do in wintertime....they're very comfortable (as advertised)
> > but the ANR has a hard time keeping up with the noise level and I find it
> > bothersome after several hours in the air. FWIW I have the Headsets Inc
> > ANR in my helmet earcups and I imagine there are better systems available
> > from the likes of Bose and Lightspeed.
> >
> > So...I've been looking at ANR headsets and figure if I'm gonna spend some
> > dough, might as well get a good one and only cry once. I'm sure Bose is
> > the best but I can't quite believe the cost/benefit tradeoff is worth the
> > $1K price tag. So I'm looking at Lightspeed's top-of-the-line Thirty 3G
> > instead. It is cheap by comparison at about half the price of the Bose X
> > (iPilot.com has the Thirty 3G for $559 with free shipping).
> >
> > Couple questions: does anybody know if Lightspeed might have a better
> > deal available at Oshkosh? If they have really good show specials it
> > might be worth waiting...
> >
> > Also, any pireps on the Thirty 3G series or similar high-end Lightspeed
> > model would be appreciated. In general I've heard that Lightspeed
> > headsets are comfortable and work well, sometimes break but have good
> > factory support to replace parts. One of my hangarmates has a pair of
> > well-used Lightspeeds that have the thin covering pealing away from the
> > foam earseals and head cushions. Still works but looks like crap...
> >
> > Thanks as always for the input,
> >
> > --Mark Navratil
> > Cedar Rapids, Iowa
> > RV-8A N2D flying 25.0 hours now, first oil change just completed...
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Well, I can say I have compared both in the back of an RV8, in flight, side by
side and my ears couldn't tell the difference as far as noise attenuation goes.
However, the Bose was a much better fit for the back of an RV8. The canopy tapers
and since they don't stick out in any direction much I never hit the canopy
with them. Can't say that for the Lightspeeds. The Bose are also noticeably
lighter and fold up and out of the way easier when not in use. I didn't fly
long enough to appreciate that but I'm sure on a long CC the Bose would be easier
on the ears and jaw.
Was I impressed enough to buy the Bose for myself? Nope but they did make me appreciate
a design that differs physically than the Lightspeeds. I instead boughtthe
ANR version QFRXCc. Really good all around product and has the basic same
slim profile of the Bose as compared to the Lightspeeds for the back seat. Plus
they stay on your head better for aerobatics. They have a full range of features
regardless of price.
http://www.anrheadsets.com/productsqfrx2.asp
Nothing drives an engineer up the wall like having options and making choices ;-)
-------------- Original message --------------
From: Charlie Brame chasb@satx.rr.com
-- RV-List message posted by: Charlie Brame <CHASB@SATX.RR.COM>
I have a pair of Lightspeed 20XLs that I have had about four years. The
noise abatement capabilities are great and the headsets are super
comfortable, if a bit bulky. After about three years I had to replace
the ear pads because the thin leather deteriorated. Lightspeed sent me
two new sets of ear pads at no cost, including shipping.
I had the opportunity to compare my 20XLs with a Bose set. Up against my
very noisy air compressor, one was slightly quieter with ANR turned off,
and the other was slightly better using ANR. Unfortunately, I can't
remember which did what. In both cases, the difference was minimal. The
u
pshot is, the Lightspeeds were at least the equal of the much more
expensive Bose. I will admit to never using a Bose set in the aircraft.
Charlie Brame
RV-6A N11CB
San Antonio
---------------------------------
Time: 09:14:37 PM PST US
Subject: RV-List: Helmet Headset ponderings
From: Mark E Navratil <CZECHSIX@JUNO.COM>
-- RV-List message posted by: Mark E Navratil <CZECHSIX@JUNO.COM>
Guys,
I've been enjoying my trusty helmet but as the wx turns warmer I'm
thinking I'll probably break down and get a good ANR headset. The head
bucket is just too hot to wear when it gets into the upper 80's and
beyond. The other thing I've noticed is that the Oregon Aero earseals in
my helmet get extremely soft with higher temps and don'
t seem
to seal as
well as they do in wintertime....they're very comfortable (as advertised)
but the ANR has a hard time keeping up with the noise level and I find it
bothersome after several hours in the air. FWIW I have the Headsets Inc
ANR in my helmet earcups and I imagine there are better systems available
from the likes of Bose and Lightspeed.
So...I've been looking at ANR headsets and figure if I'm gonna spend some
dough, might as well get a good one and only cry once. I'm sure Bose is
the best but I can't quite believe the cost/benefit tradeoff is worth the
$1K price tag. So I'm looking at Lightspeed's top-of-the-line Thirty 3G
instead. It is cheap by comparison at about half the price of the Bose X
(iPilot.com has the Thirty 3G for $559 with free shipping).
Couple questions: does a
nybody
know if Lightspeed might have a better
deal available at Oshkosh? If they have really good show specials it
might be worth waiting...
Also, any pireps on the Thirty 3G series or similar high-end Lightspeed
model would be appreciated. In general I've heard that Lightspeed
headsets are comfortable and work well, sometimes break but have good
factory support to replace parts. One of my hangarmates has a pair of
well-used Lightspeeds that have the thin covering pealing away from the
foam earseals and head cushions. Still works but looks like crap...
Thanks as always for the input,
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D flying 25.0 hours now, first oil change just completed...
======
============================
&g
t;
Message 31
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| Subject: | RE: Helmet & Headset ponderings |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson@earthlink.net>
As another data point, this was from a post I made to this list a couple
years back comparing the high end Telex to the Bose:
"Telex was a generous sponsor of our Twin Cities RV Forum last year. I
already had been flying with a set of Bose X headsets for a couple years
in my RV, so the Telex rep and I hopped in my plane for some real time
comparisons. My honest assessment was this: The Telex utterly stopped
all pulsatile engine noise, so much so that it was unnerving, to me at
least. The Bose allow a low level of the engine noise to come through,
such that I have really gotten used to "hearing" the plane as subtle
changes in airspeed/power occur. My perception, and it may not be real,
is that there was more hissing (from airflow around the plane) allowed
through the Telex, but that would require instrumentation to determine.
I felt that the Bose were more comfortable, but that is something that
would take hours of comparison to really establish. I believe that the
Telex model we had was about $100 less than the Bose X, but don't recall
exactly. We talked about bringing some of their instrumentation aboard
to really nail it, but we haven't done so as yet."
Alex Peterson
RV6-A N66AP 751 hours
Maple Grove, MN
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: 6 A is flight level when? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Tracy Crook" <lors01@msn.com>
True, which brings up a related subject.
Anyone know what the AOA of the 230xx airfoil on the RV is at any typical cruise
speed? I need to make a decision on whether to change from stock RV incidence
on my "long wing" RV-8. Span is 3 feet longer than stock which should result
in a lower AOA for any given condition. I have a program to predict the appropriate
change but don't know what it is to start with and haven't seen it
in the plans book.
Tracy Crook
> --> RV-List message posted by: Matt Jurotich <mjurotich@hst.nasa.gov<mailto:mjurotich@hst.nasa.gov>>
>
> I presume the top longeron is "level" when in straight and
> level flight.
The pitch attitude in straight and level flight will depend on the
airspeed, weight and flap angle, and to a less extent, on CG.
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8<http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8>
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: 6 A is flight level when? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Konrad L. Werner" <klwerner@comcast.net>
Hi Tracy,
How come you extended your std. RV-8 Wings to become 3ft. longer?
Just curious to find out your reason.
Do not archive
SNIP
...on my "long wing" RV-8. Span is 3 feet longer than stock ...
SNIP
Tracy Crook
--
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Flow Transducer-Injected |
--> RV-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss <chaztuna@adelphia.net>
Paul
This has been discussed on the Yahoo RV8 List several times before.
JPI has an Acrobat file installation manual. In it, they recommend
installing the transducer between the servo and the fuel distributor.
It gets installed in the middle of a flex hose, so it isn't subjected
to all the vibration of the engine. Check out the document on the web
link below. Look at page 8
http://www.jpinstruments.com/700-800_FF_install.PDF
Charlie Kuss
>--> RV-List message posted by: Paul Besing <pbesing@yahoo.com>
>
>First question, where's a good place to put this in
>the stream of fuel? I'm not too savvy on injected
>engines.
>
>While talking with Electronics International today, I
>was told that since there is a return of unused fuel,
>I'll need TWO transducers and a little box that
>computes the unused fuel. This adds about $300 to the
>price of my fuel flow, and am wondering if it's worth
>it now. Thoughts?
>
>Paul Besing
>RV-4
>N73DD
>Arizona (For Now)
>
>
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: 6 A is flight level when? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
The AOA will be quite low. If the airfoil was a true 23013.5 series,
and this was a 2D wing (i.e. there were no effects from the fuselage
or wing tip, the AOA at 1600 lb, 212 mph at 8,000 ft would be about
0.3 degrees (value calculated by XFOIL). If we drop the cruise speed
to 189 mph, the AOA would be about 0.6 degrees.
I understand that the leading edge of the RV airfoil differs slightly
from the NACA profile. And, the local AOA is not constant along the
span, due to the effect of the fuselage and wing tip. So the above
values must be considered as approximate.
Kevin Horton
On 19 Apr 2006, at 19:55, Tracy Crook wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Tracy Crook" <lors01@msn.com>
>
> True, which brings up a related subject.
>
> Anyone know what the AOA of the 230xx airfoil on the RV is at any
> typical cruise speed? I need to make a decision on whether to
> change from stock RV incidence on my "long wing" RV-8. Span is 3
> feet longer than stock which should result in a lower AOA for any
> given condition. I have a program to predict the appropriate
> change but don't know what it is to start with and haven't seen it
> in the plans book.
>
> Tracy Crook
>
>
>> --> RV-List message posted by: Matt Jurotich
>> <mjurotich@hst.nasa.gov<mailto:mjurotich@hst.nasa.gov>>
>>
>> I presume the top longeron is "level" when in straight and
>> level flight.
>
> The pitch attitude in straight and level flight will depend on the
> airspeed, weight and flap angle, and to a less extent, on CG.
>
> Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
> Ottawa, Canada
> http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8<http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8>
>
>
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Flow Transducer-Injected |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bob Barrow" <bobbarrow10@hotmail.com>
I can understand that any restriction upstream of the engine fuel pump might
tend to increase the possibility of vapour lock. However you would think
that the AFP electric fuel boost pump itself would cause some sort of
restriction....surely the filter would. And then there's the people who also
use gascolators...or additional filters in the wing roots etc. Wouldn't all
of these things create some degree of resistance to flow. Why is the fuel
flow transducer being singled out...does it present an exceptional
resistance to flow. Have there been any reported cases of vapour lock
associated with locating the transducer upstream of the engine fuel
pump....or is this just more "worry bucket" stuff.
Does anybody have any pix of their fuel transducer mounted between the servo
and the divider (and off the engine as has been recommended). Have the
people who have done this had universally good metering results...despite
the fact that they "may" not have the prerequisite 5" of straight line
before and after the transducer and may not have it mounted vertically as
recommended by the manufacturer.
Decisions, decisions...phew.
New year, new job there's more than 100,00 jobs at SEEK
http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fninemsn%2Eseek%2Ecom%2Eau&_t=752315885&_r=Jan05_tagline&_m=EXT
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: 6 A is flight level when? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "bdjones1965" <rv_8pilot@hotmail.com>
Tracy -
Regarding the 3' longer wings, did you consider the change in flutter characteristics
of the new wings? How about longitudinal stability?
Not trying to be a downer on new ideas, but I would be very concerned about the
change in resonance characteristics of the wing. And to a lesser degree the
stability.
Just curious
Bryan Jones, PE, -8
Houston, Texas
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=29551#29551
Message 38
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| Subject: | Scott Crossfield |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jerry Isler" <jlisler@alltel.net>
Off topic post! DO NOT ARCHIEVE.
Has anyone heard anything about Scott Crossfield going down around Rome,
Georgia this morning? I caught the tail end of a news cast about this and
have no other details.
Jerry Isler
Donalsonville, GA
RV-4 N455J
Cessna C140A N9641A
Message 39
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--> RV-List message posted by: WPAerial@aol.com
you should fly into sturgis. the 1st week of aug. is the bike ralley, but
sturgis is already get strong. airport there will let you use the car. nice
folks.
also there is the summer white house of Calvin Coolidge at
custer's state park. nice place for lunch. we called and a van came and
picked us up.
do not archive
Message 40
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| Subject: | Re: 6 A is flight level when? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Randy Lervold" <randy@romeolima.com>
The standard angle of incidence on the RV-4 and RV-8 is .5 degrees. The
guppy planes (side-by-side) are 1.0 degrees. Curiously the RV-3 is also 1.0
degrees.
Randy Lervold
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tracy Crook" <lors01@msn.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 4:55 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: 6 A is flight level when?
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Tracy Crook" <lors01@msn.com>
>
> True, which brings up a related subject.
>
> Anyone know what the AOA of the 230xx airfoil on the RV is at any typical
> cruise speed? I need to make a decision on whether to change from stock
> RV incidence on my "long wing" RV-8. Span is 3 feet longer than stock
> which should result in a lower AOA for any given condition. I have a
> program to predict the appropriate change but don't know what it is to
> start with and haven't seen it in the plans book.
>
> Tracy Crook
>
>
>> --> RV-List message posted by: Matt Jurotich
>> <mjurotich@hst.nasa.gov<mailto:mjurotich@hst.nasa.gov>>
>>
>> I presume the top longeron is "level" when in straight and
>> level flight.
>
> The pitch attitude in straight and level flight will depend on the
> airspeed, weight and flap angle, and to a less extent, on CG.
>
> Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
> Ottawa, Canada
> http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8<http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8>
>
>
>
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