---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 04/19/06: 40 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:23 AM - Re: Fuel Flow Transducer-Injected (Bob Barrow) 2. 04:44 AM - Re: Helmet & Headset ponderings (Larry Bowen) 3. 04:44 AM - Re: Helmet & Headset ponderings (Tim Olson) 4. 05:59 AM - Re: Dakotas (Ron Lee) 5. 06:03 AM - Re: Fuel Flow Transducer-Injected (Dan Checkoway) 6. 06:26 AM - Helmet & Headset ponderings, Oshkosh deals (Glen Matejcek) 7. 06:32 AM - Re: OT - AOPA donation-solicitation phone calls (Dean Van Winkle) 8. 06:51 AM - About to close rudder (Folbrecht, Paul) 9. 07:12 AM - Re: Fuel Flow Transducer-Injected (Phil Birkelbach) 10. 07:23 AM - 6 A is flight level when? (Matt Jurotich) 11. 07:46 AM - Helmet & Headset ponderings (Mickey Coggins) 12. 07:57 AM - Re: Helmet & Headset ponderings (Sherman Butler) 13. 08:52 AM - Re: Fuel Flow Transducer-Injected (Paul Besing) 14. 08:52 AM - Re: Dakotas (John Danielson) 15. 09:18 AM - Fuel Flow Transducer-Injected () 16. 09:18 AM - Re: Helmet & Headset ponderings (Chris W) 17. 09:25 AM - Re: Fuel Flow Transducer-Injected (Konrad L. Werner) 18. 10:03 AM - Re: Fuel Flow Transducer-Injected (Dwight Frye) 19. 10:03 AM - Re: Fuel Flow Transducer-Injected (Terry Watson) 20. 10:12 AM - Re: Fuel Flow Transducer-Injected (Phil Birkelbach) 21. 10:22 AM - Re: Throttle, Prop, and Mixture cable slack (Phil Birkelbach) 22. 10:38 AM - Re: Fuel Flow Transducer-Injected (dsvs@comcast.net) 23. 10:52 AM - Re: 6 A is flight level when? (sportav8r@aol.com) 24. 11:27 AM - Re: Throttle, Prop, and Mixture cable slack (Ralph E. Capen) 25. 11:44 AM - Re: Fuel Flow Transducer-Injected (Dan Checkoway) 26. 11:54 AM - Re: Fuel Flow Transducer-Injected (Kevin Horton) 27. 01:25 PM - Re: aircraft registration timing (Sherman Butler) 28. 02:55 PM - Re: 6 A is flight level when? (Kevin Horton) 29. 03:11 PM - Re: Helmet & Headset ponderings (Charlie Brame) 30. 03:30 PM - Re: Re: Helmet & Headset ponderings (luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky)) 31. 04:49 PM - Re: Re: Helmet & Headset ponderings (Alex Peterson) 32. 04:58 PM - Re: 6 A is flight level when? (Tracy Crook) 33. 05:57 PM - Re: 6 A is flight level when? (Konrad L. Werner) 34. 06:20 PM - Re: Fuel Flow Transducer-Injected (Charlie Kuss) 35. 06:25 PM - Re: 6 A is flight level when? (Kevin Horton) 36. 07:06 PM - Re: Fuel Flow Transducer-Injected (Bob Barrow) 37. 07:06 PM - Re: 6 A is flight level when? (bdjones1965) 38. 07:26 PM - Scott Crossfield (Jerry Isler) 39. 08:36 PM - Re: Dakotas (WPAerial@aol.com) 40. 09:15 PM - Re: 6 A is flight level when? (Randy Lervold) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:23:12 AM PST US From: "Bob Barrow" Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel Flow Transducer-Injected --> RV-List message posted by: "Bob Barrow" Dan, I thought you put your fuel transducer just after the AFP boost pump on the cabin floor. Are you now unhappy with the results from that position. >From: "Dan Checkoway" >To: >Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel Flow Transducer-Injected Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 >19:16:49 -0700 > >--> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" > >In the metered fuel line between the servo and flow divider is about as >ideal a spot as any imho. > >)_( Dan >RV-7 N714D >http://www.rvproject.com > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Paul Besing" >To: > >Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 6:53 PM >Subject: RV-List: Fuel Flow Transducer-Injected > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: Paul Besing > > > > First question, where's a good place to put this in > > the stream of fuel? I'm not too savvy on injected > > engines. > > > > While talking with Electronics International today, I > > was told that since there is a return of unused fuel, > > I'll need TWO transducers and a little box that > > computes the unused fuel. This adds about $300 to the > > price of my fuel flow, and am wondering if it's worth > > it now. Thoughts? > > > > Paul Besing > > RV-4 > > N73DD > > Arizona (For Now) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://mobilecentral.ninemsn.com.au/mcmobileHotmail/home.aspx ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:44:20 AM PST US Subject: Re: RV-List: Helmet & Headset ponderings From: "Larry Bowen" --> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" Another option priced in between the two you are considering: http://www.telex.com/aircraft/products.nsf/pages/Stratus50Digital -- Larry Bowen Larry@BowenAero.com http://BowenAero.com Vanremog@aol.com said: > --> RV-List message posted by: Vanremog@aol.com > > > In a message dated 4/18/2006 9:17:16 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, > czechsix@juno.com writes: > > I've been looking at ANR headsets and figure if I'm gonna spend some > dough, might as well get a good one and only cry once. I'm sure Bose is > the best but I can't quite believe the cost/benefit tradeoff is worth the > $1K price tag. So I'm looking at Lightspeed's top-of-the-line Thirty 3G > instead. It is cheap by comparison at about half the price of the Bose X > (iPilot.com has the Thirty 3G for $559 with free shipping). > > > ============================================= > > I have two Thirty 3Gs and they are okay although I hate the plastic and > would encourage you to evaluate the ear seals (I didn't get good results > from the > new style ear seals, so I swapped them out for the older style). I would > agree with others that the Bose X headsets are probably a superior > product > overall and if my stocks returned better numbers I would have splurged > (invested) > in Bose Xs as well, and with gas prices as high as they are we're not > flying > quite as much as we used to. > > > GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A, C/S, Flying 780hrs, Silicon Valley, CA) > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:44:20 AM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV-List: Helmet & Headset ponderings --> RV-List message posted by: Tim Olson For the past few years I had the opportunity to use 3 types of ANR headsets. For my family, I bought the ANR upgrade kits and put them into both some nice Flightcoms and into some kids headsets so everyone had ANR. They worked really well. But, just like David Clarks, they clamped a bit hard and after a few hours you notice and have to start shifting them around to keep comfortable. I also got to use some lightspeeds of 3 various models. The ANR and music quality of the ANR upgrade kits was every bit as good as the lightspeeds. The lightspeeds seemed fairly comfortable, but they're wide as heck, and actually in some planes will be banging into the sides of the plane. And, IMHO, they look goofy sticking way out the side of your head like that. Also, with 3 pair, we did end up sending one pair back for repair, which seems strange for a headset...they should be bullet proof. This year, with the newly minted RV-10 to fly, I decided that spending that much on a long-term airplane, I should really consider flying like I was going to be doing it long term. I got 2 Bose sets. After using them, they were so much more incredibly comfortable, and have such good music quality, that I can say that of course they're not worth $1000....unless you really want some good comfort. My 7 year old started outgrowing her kids set, and said they were squeezing her head. I made the mistake of having her try the Bose. She immeditely, with no prompting, said they felt much better on her head. So, it was off to market to buy a 3rd pair. At this point I have given in and resigned myself that I still have one more kid to equip with Bose within a year or two...but considering the comfort, I think it'll even be worth it for a 4/5 year old. They really are nice. The Bass in the musing is very good to, which shocked me, as there were a couple of songs I played that actually had me take pause to see if that low rumble was in the engine or the song. ;) FWIW, I really like the permanent installed jacks...very handy and compact, and no batteries to worry about. I plan to just buy 1 extra cord so if I go in someone elses plane I can just swap cords and use batteries. Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying do not archive Mickey Coggins wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins > >> So...I've been looking at ANR headsets and figure if I'm gonna spend some >> dough, might as well get a good one and only cry once. I'm sure Bose is >> the best but I can't quite believe the cost/benefit tradeoff is worth the >> $1K price tag. ... > > It is a lot of money, that's for sure. Before I had bought my Bose X > headsets a few years ago, I had only used David Clark. I didn't have > the chance to try many other headsets, since there are no pilot shops > around here. All the various ones I had tried seemed fine, but I > decided to order the Bose anyway, even though I had never tried a > set. They claim you can send them back. I'm happy with them, and > if I had invested the extra $500 in the stock market, it would be > worth about $300! :-) > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:59:55 AM PST US From: Ron Lee Subject: Re: RV-List: Dakotas --> RV-List message posted by: Ron Lee The Black Hills is a pretty area. In addition to Mt Rushmore you are not far from Devil's Tower (Close Encounters movie) in NE WY near Hulett (North of I-90) (Around 104 deg 42.9 min West and 44 deg 35.4 min North) Ron Lee Do not archive ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:03:56 AM PST US From: "Dan Checkoway" Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel Flow Transducer-Injected --> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" > Dan, I thought you put your fuel transducer just after the AFP boost pump > on > the cabin floor. Are you now unhappy with the results from that position. I did, and I don't have any problems. But it's not the best location from a "scientific" standpoint. ;-) Pressure drop across the transducer when it's on the suction side means more chances of vapor lock. And why not put it where it "matters" most for accuracy? In the metered fuel line is ideal from what I understand, since it's under positive pressure (as opposed to suction), and it's measuring the ACTUAL flow of fuel to the cylinders. Just my 2 cents. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:26:25 AM PST US From: "Glen Matejcek" Subject: RV-List: Helmet & Headset ponderings, Oshkosh deals --> RV-List message posted by: "Glen Matejcek" Hi Mark, et al- RE: does anybody know if Lightspeed might have a better deal available at Oshkosh? FWIW, I bought a pair of Sennheisers ANR's at just under $400 each at OSH. I'm not airborne yet so I can't speak definitively on their performance, but I believe it to be quite good. Also, as a general rule, I make sure the vendors know I'm seriously comparison shopping. I'll grid out my wish list with my shopping list down the edge of the paper, and vendors across the top. I fill in the squares as I talk to them. At least one, usually Pacific Coast Avionics, will cut to the chase and make me an offer I can't refuse. It may sound silly or trite, but I've saved a whoooole lot of money that way. As ever, FWIW- Glen Matejcek aerobubba@earthlink.net ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:32:38 AM PST US From: "Dean Van Winkle" Subject: Re: RV-List: OT - AOPA donation-solicitation phone calls --> RV-List message posted by: "Dean Van Winkle" Matt and Dale I believe that this is the third year in a row that I have had a solicitation call from AOPA Air Safety Foundation. Each time I have told them to send a notice to me and I will respond with a check, just to ensure that it is a legitimate call. They respond promptly. I plan to attend one of their Safety Seminars in Springfield, Illinois next week. I agree that AOPA is a good cause. Dean Van Winkle RV-9A Fuselage/Finish ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matt Dralle" Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 12:03 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: OT - AOPA donation-solicitation phone calls > --> RV-List message posted by: Matt Dralle > > At 04:18 AM 4/18/2006 Tuesday, you wrote: >>--> RV-List message posted by: "Dale Ensing" >> >> >>Have been a member of AOPA for 20 years and do not remember ever getting a >>phone solicitation from them. Is this a scam? >>Dale Ensing >>do not achieve > > No, I don't think it is. I got a "reminder call" last year too and it was > legit. They are pretty persistent, that's for sure. Its a good cause, > though, if you value your right to fly in the US. > > Matt > > > Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 > 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email > http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:51:29 AM PST US Subject: RV-List: About to close rudder From: "Folbrecht, Paul" --> RV-List message posted by: "Folbrecht, Paul" Finally back on the project again after a 3-week break due to an extended biz trip. Next step is riveting on the 2nd rudder skin and then doing the TE. I am nearly certain there is nothing that needs to go in there as the light/strobe is in the bottom fairing. Anything I might not have thought of? Paul 9A QB #1176 Do not archive ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:12:52 AM PST US From: Phil Birkelbach Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel Flow Transducer-Injected --> RV-List message posted by: Phil Birkelbach I mounted mine in basically the same position that Dan did except that mine is further forward and attached to the floor. I plan to move it this weekend to where Dan put his. I think that the vibration on the floor is causing it to be WAY off. It shows about 10% higher rate than what I am actually flowing and turning the boost pump on will give it another 10% on top of that. With the airplane sitting in the hangar it's right on the money. Dan, How did you attach yours? Is it bolted to something or is the tubing holding it? Godspeed, Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas RV-7 N727WB http://www.myrv7.com Dan Checkoway wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" > > > >>Dan, I thought you put your fuel transducer just after the AFP boost pump >>on >>the cabin floor. Are you now unhappy with the results from that position. >> >> > >I did, and I don't have any problems. But it's not the best location from a >"scientific" standpoint. ;-) Pressure drop across the transducer when it's >on the suction side means more chances of vapor lock. And why not put it >where it "matters" most for accuracy? In the metered fuel line is ideal >from what I understand, since it's under positive pressure (as opposed to >suction), and it's measuring the ACTUAL flow of fuel to the cylinders. > >Just my 2 cents. > >)_( Dan >RV-7 N714D >http://www.rvproject.com > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:23:15 AM PST US From: Matt Jurotich Subject: RV-List: 6 A is flight level when? --> RV-List message posted by: Matt Jurotich I am near to getting my RV 6A back in the air after a complete electrical and panel rebuild. I plan on redoing weight and balance. With a slider is the top rail of the slider parallel to the top longeron? The top longeron is Van's reference for on the ground level. I presume the top longeron is "level" when in straight and level flight. Thanks Matthew M. Jurotich e-mail mail to: phone : 301-286-5919 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:46:47 AM PST US From: Mickey Coggins Subject: RV-List: Helmet & Headset ponderings --> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins Brian Lloyd wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd > ... > > And there is one other thing that I have never seen anyone talk about > with headsets -- the quality of the microphone. ... I've often thought about this, but have not found an easy way to test it. The normal "radio check" request from a tower or ATC usually doesn't get too deep into the quality of the sound. Any suggestions? -- Mickey Coggins http://www.rv8.ch/ #82007 finishing do not archive ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:57:13 AM PST US From: Sherman Butler Subject: Re: RV-List: Helmet & Headset ponderings --> RV-List message posted by: Sherman Butler Headset pirep I started with a Sigtronics standard headset, and would miss calls. I bought a Light speed 20X and was really impressed with the difference, and eventually bought a 25X. Both headsets plastic parts broke on occasion, and when both were broken at the same time I decided to buy the new earpiece Lightspeeds. The delivery date was pushed back a couple of times so I canceled the order. I bought the Boise. The size difference is similar to the difference between a volleyball and a softball. They are the best. My radio problems essentially disappeared. Good communication with the tower. I feel much safer using the Boise headset, and highly recommend them. Sherman Butler RV-7a Empennage Idaho Falls --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:52:55 AM PST US From: Paul Besing Subject: RE: RV-List: Fuel Flow Transducer-Injected --> RV-List message posted by: Paul Besing Dont' really know...I've got the cowl off right now and it's kind of confusing...which is why I asked the question in the first place...I know that some Cessnas have this feature (it goes into a 3rd small storage tank in the cowl) and bonanzas do as well. So is it my understanding that I do not need this fuel return? Seems like an aweful lot of fuel to not return (maybe 1 gallon per hour). The plane was built 17 years ago, and has been that way ever since, with 5 owners, and no problems. Paul Besing --- Stein Bruch wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" > > > Wow! What kind of plumbing do you have that allows > fuel to be ported back to > a tank that you're not drawing from? Both the > Bendix/Precision injection > systems shouldn't port fuel back to any tank during > normal flight > operation....even with a purge valve (normally used > only for starting and > shutdown) and most of us flying with the old antique > Bendix/Precision FI's > don't even have a return line. I know the subies > and auto conversions are > different...but...I'm REALLY curious here...do > tell!! > > Cheers, > Stein. > > do not archive > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf > Of Paul Besing > Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 11:21 PM > To: rv-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel Flow Transducer-Injected > > > --> RV-List message posted by: Paul Besing > > > Contrary to the fuel return on my airplane. Not > sure > what type of injection it is, but the fuel return is > substantial in flight. I've run 30 mins on the left > tank, and after 30 mins on the right tank, the left > tank is full again. > > Paul Besing > > > The API opinion on the amount of fuel returned is > > that it is so little > > (startup and shutdown) that putting a Flowscan on > > the return line would > > be of little benefit. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > > > Admin. > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:52:55 AM PST US From: "John Danielson" Subject: RE: RV-List: Dakotas --> RV-List message posted by: "John Danielson" Check out the new airport at Hulet, WY (W43). It has self serve gas. There is a courtesy car (old police car). I was the project engineer for the airport in 2001-2003. John L. Danielson -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron Lee Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 6:54 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Dakotas --> RV-List message posted by: Ron Lee The Black Hills is a pretty area. In addition to Mt Rushmore you are not far from Devil's Tower (Close Encounters movie) in NE WY near Hulett (North of I-90) (Around 104 deg 42.9 min West and 44 deg 35.4 min North) Ron Lee Do not archive ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:18:02 AM PST US From: Subject: RV-List: Fuel Flow Transducer-Injected --> RV-List message posted by: My io-360B1B (vertical induction) from Aerosport Power came with the purge valve installed adjacent to the flow divider. I am tempted to remove it to avoid another fuel line and hole through the firewall, but havent yet. I was a little surprised to see that everyone had installed the fuel flow transducer in front of the firewall. Not that its bad mind you, just not where I installed mine. Mine is aft of the firewall, between the boost pump and the firewall, where it seems to fit nicely under the cover plate. Now you are all messing with my head making me feel uncomfortable! Anything wrong with my location? With the exception of the purge line, all the firewall forward fuel lines were pre-made, and supplied with my engine, so I didnt want to waste one of those by adding in the fuel transducer. Since I had to fabricate the fuel lines aft of the firewall anyway, it was an easy decision to put the transducer back there. Whats really throwing me is that Dan Checkoway's web site shows the transducer back by the fuel booster pump as well (see http://www.rvproject.com/20030520.html). But I see Dan is now recommending the firewall forward location as well? What gives? Somebody is messin' wit my head. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:18:02 AM PST US From: Chris W <3edcft6@cox.net> Subject: Re: RV-List: Helmet & Headset ponderings --> RV-List message posted by: Chris W <3edcft6@cox.net> Mickey Coggins wrote: >I've often thought about this, but have not found an easy way >to test it. The normal "radio check" request from a tower >or ATC usually doesn't get too deep into the quality of the >sound. Any suggestions? > > If you know any amateur radio operators, you can have one of them fly with you and plug the headset into a handheld transceiver, with the right adapters. Other amateur radio guys will give you reports on the quality of the audio all day long. do not archive -- Chris W KE5GIX Gift Giving Made Easy Get the gifts you want & give the gifts they want One stop wish list for any gift, from anywhere, for any occasion! http://thewishzone.com ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 09:25:36 AM PST US From: "Konrad L. Werner" Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel Flow Transducer-Injected --> RV-List message posted by: "Konrad L. Werner" Paul, Would you have any pics on this installation of yours? Like they say: A picture is worth 1000 words. Konrad ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Besing To: rv-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 9:52 AM Subject: RE: RV-List: Fuel Flow Transducer-Injected --> RV-List message posted by: Paul Besing Dont' really know...I've got the cowl off right now and it's kind of confusing...which is why I asked the question in the first place...I know that some Cessnas have this feature (it goes into a 3rd small storage tank in the cowl) and bonanzas do as well. So is it my understanding that I do not need this fuel return? Seems like an aweful lot of fuel to not return (maybe 1 gallon per hour). The plane was built 17 years ago, and has been that way ever since, with 5 owners, and no problems. Paul Besing --- Stein Bruch wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" > > > Wow! What kind of plumbing do you have that allows > fuel to be ported back to > a tank that you're not drawing from? Both the > Bendix/Precision injection > systems shouldn't port fuel back to any tank during > normal flight > operation....even with a purge valve (normally used > only for starting and > shutdown) and most of us flying with the old antique > Bendix/Precision FI's > don't even have a return line. I know the subies > and auto conversions are > different...but...I'm REALLY curious here...do > tell!! > > Cheers, > Stein. > > do not archive > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf > Of Paul Besing > Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 11:21 PM > To: rv-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel Flow Transducer-Injected > > > --> RV-List message posted by: Paul Besing > > > Contrary to the fuel return on my airplane. Not > sure > what type of injection it is, but the fuel return is > substantial in flight. I've run 30 mins on the left > tank, and after 30 mins on the right tank, the left > tank is full again. > > Paul Besing > > > The API opinion on the amount of fuel returned is > > that it is so little > > (startup and shutdown) that putting a Flowscan on > > the return line would > > be of little benefit. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > > > Admin. > > > > > > > > > > > -- ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 10:03:21 AM PST US From: Dwight Frye Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel Flow Transducer-Injected --> RV-List message posted by: Dwight Frye The one down-side to installing the transducer where Dan his his (and as you noted he is now suggesting a new location too) is that it puts the transducer on the suction-side of the engine driven fuel pump. The transducer acts as a restriction in the line, and my understanding is that if you pull a fluid through a restriction you will have a pressure drop across the restriction. Given the rather low vapor pressure of avgas (or, gasoline in general) this reduces your margin of protection against vapor lock in the feed lines. It is possible (again, I am not an expert but am simply passing along some of the things I learned in a fuel injection class) that on a really hot day vapor could form on the engine-side of the transducer as the engine driven pump tries to pull fuel. This would be a "Bad Thing (tm)". :) Is this guaranteed to happen? No. Clearly many have flown with their fuel flow transducers on the suction side of the fuel pump without incident. But once the logic was outlined (and once some vapor pressure graphs were examined in detail) I have made the decision to install my transducer in the line between the throttle-body and the flow divider. YMMV. -- Dwight On Wed Apr 19 12:16:08 2006, erichweaver@cox.net wrote : >My io-360B1B (vertical induction) from Aerosport Power came with the purge valve installed adjacent to the flow divider. I am tempted to remove it to avoid another fuel line and hole through the firewall, but havent yet. > >I was a little surprised to see that everyone had installed the fuel flow transducer in front of the firewall. Not that its bad mind you, just not where I installed mine. Mine is aft of the firewall, between the boost pump and the firewall, where it seems to fit nicely under the cover plate. Now you are all messing with my head making me feel uncomfortable! Anything wrong with my location? > >With the exception of the purge line, all the firewall forward fuel lines were pre-made, and supplied with my engine, so I didnt want to waste one of those by adding in the fuel transducer. Since I had to fabricate the fuel lines aft of the firewall anyway, it was an easy decision to put the transducer back there. > >Whats really throwing me is that Dan Checkoway's web site shows the transducer back by the fuel booster pump as well (see http://www.rvproject.com/20030520.html). But I see Dan is now recommending the firewall forward location as well? What gives? Somebody is messin' wit my head. ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 10:03:21 AM PST US From: "Terry Watson" Subject: RE: RV-List: Fuel Flow Transducer-Injected --> RV-List message posted by: "Terry Watson" Eric, I too have an IO-360-B1B with Airflow Performance fuel injection. (You didn't say who made the fuel injection, but I am assuming it is Airflow Performance). There was some discussion on this list awhile back about this, but the purge valve is apparently necessary to shut the engine down. The engine shutdown checklist says to leave the mixture at full-rich and put the purge valve control to off position. Page 21 of my Airflow Performance manual says that when the mixture is at idle cut-off, there is "approximately 1.0 to 3.0 pph leakage in this position" which is apparently enough to keep the engine running. Terry RV-8A #80729 Baffles Seattle -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of erichweaver@cox.net Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 9:16 AM Subject: RV-List: Fuel Flow Transducer-Injected --> RV-List message posted by: My io-360B1B (vertical induction) from Aerosport Power came with the purge valve installed adjacent to the flow divider. I am tempted to remove it to avoid another fuel line and hole through the firewall, but havent yet. I was a little surprised to see that everyone had installed the fuel flow transducer in front of the firewall. Not that its bad mind you, just not where I installed mine. Mine is aft of the firewall, between the boost pump and the firewall, where it seems to fit nicely under the cover plate. Now you are all messing with my head making me feel uncomfortable! Anything wrong with my location? With the exception of the purge line, all the firewall forward fuel lines were pre-made, and supplied with my engine, so I didnt want to waste one of those by adding in the fuel transducer. Since I had to fabricate the fuel lines aft of the firewall anyway, it was an easy decision to put the transducer back there. Whats really throwing me is that Dan Checkoway's web site shows the transducer back by the fuel booster pump as well (see http://www.rvproject.com/20030520.html). But I see Dan is now recommending the firewall forward location as well? What gives? Somebody is messin' wit my head. ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 10:12:24 AM PST US From: Phil Birkelbach Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel Flow Transducer-Injected --> RV-List message posted by: Phil Birkelbach I think that all Dan is saying is that the "Theoretically Perfect" solution is between the servo and the flow divider, but there are more practical choices like putting it where you describe. Mine is smack in the middle of the floor between the boost pump and the firewall. It doesn't work very well and I'm gonna move it back to where Dan has his and see if that improves it any. It think it's picking up vibration and it's causing high readings. That floor shakes pretty good. BTW you will love that purge valve. I can start mine in two blades when it's heat soaked, and I like the idea of killing the engine with the purge valve instead of the mixture. It will completely bleed off the fuel pressure, so that there is no way fuel can get into the cylinders while sitting on the ramp. Seems much safer to me. I'd suggest installing a spring to pull the purge valve closed in case the control cable breaks. Also make sure that the control cable is of the locking variety and don't put it next to the cabin heat knob lest ye grab the wrong one whilst flying, and ruineth thy day. Godspeed, Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas RV-7 N727WB http://www.myrv7.com erichweaver@cox.net wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: > >My io-360B1B (vertical induction) from Aerosport Power came with the purge valve installed adjacent to the flow divider. I am tempted to remove it to avoid another fuel line and hole through the firewall, but havent yet. > >I was a little surprised to see that everyone had installed the fuel flow transducer in front of the firewall. Not that its bad mind you, just not where I installed mine. Mine is aft of the firewall, between the boost pump and the firewall, where it seems to fit nicely under the cover plate. Now you are all messing with my head making me feel uncomfortable! Anything wrong with my location? > >With the exception of the purge line, all the firewall forward fuel lines were pre-made, and supplied with my engine, so I didnt want to waste one of those by adding in the fuel transducer. Since I had to fabricate the fuel lines aft of the firewall anyway, it was an easy decision to put the transducer back there. > >Whats really throwing me is that Dan Checkoway's web site shows the transducer back by the fuel booster pump as well (see http://www.rvproject.com/20030520.html). But I see Dan is now recommending the firewall forward location as well? What gives? Somebody is messin' wit my head. > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 10:22:42 AM PST US From: Phil Birkelbach Subject: Re: RV-List: Throttle, Prop, and Mixture cable slack --> RV-List message posted by: Phil Birkelbach I have quite a bit of slack in mine aft of the firewall and they work fine. I didn't measure it but it's probably close to what you describe. Just route it somewhere out of the way and keep the bend radius as large as possible. Godspeed, Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas RV-7 N727WB http://www.myrv7.com Ralph E. Capen wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Ralph E. Capen" > >Fellow listers, > >I'm working on my firewall foreward and since I had already made some decisions before the firewall foreward kit was available, I can't use the stock locations for my throttle and mixture cables. The prop cable went in to the stock location nicely with the one hole eyeball fitting. > >There seems to be just a little slack in that cable - just enough to allow flexibility to keep it out of the way. > >How much should I have? Upon measuring the cables that I got for the throttle and mixture after putting them in where I could, I have 6" too much throttle cable and 7" too much mixture cable. These are straight shot from the panel/console to the eyeball passthrough the firewall. on the firewall side, I have sufficient 'Lycoming wet dog shake room'. I'm thinking on the aft side of the firewall, I don't need much wiggle room other than to avoid stuff that could get in the way and wear the cable. > >Your thoughts please, >Ralph >RV6AQB N822AR @ N06 - fun firewall foreward! > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 10:38:26 AM PST US From: dsvs@comcast.net Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel Flow Transducer-Injected --> RV-List message posted by: dsvs@comcast.net -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: Phil Birkelbach > --> RV-List message posted by: Phil Birkelbach I just talked to the techs at Air Flow Performance. They told me that the best place is between the servo and the purge valve. They also said that the transducer will work fine if you mount it vertically in that line. They claim that they do it all the time. I am going to try it that way and see how it works. They also said to not mount it on the engine. Don > I think that all Dan is saying is that the "Theoretically Perfect" > solution is between the servo and the flow divider, but there are more > practical choices like putting it where you describe. Mine is smack in > the middle of the floor between the boost pump and the firewall. It > doesn't work very well and I'm gonna move it back to where Dan has his > and see if that improves it any. It think it's picking up vibration and > it's causing high readings. That floor shakes pretty good. > > BTW you will love that purge valve. I can start mine in two blades when > it's heat soaked, and I like the idea of killing the engine with the > purge valve instead of the mixture. It will completely bleed off the > fuel pressure, so that there is no way fuel can get into the cylinders > while sitting on the ramp. Seems much safer to me. I'd suggest > installing a spring to pull the purge valve closed in case the control > cable breaks. Also make sure that the control cable is of the locking > variety and don't put it next to the cabin heat knob lest ye grab the > wrong one whilst flying, and ruineth thy day. > > Godspeed, > > Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas > RV-7 N727WB > http//www.myrv7.com > > > > erichweaver@cox.net wrote: > > >--> RV-List message posted by: > > > >My io-360B1B (vertical induction) from Aerosport Power came with the purge > valve installed adjacent to the flow divider. I am tempted to remove it to > avoid another fuel line and hole through the firewall, but havent yet. > > > >I was a little surprised to see that everyone had installed the fuel flow > transducer in front of the firewall. Not that its bad mind you, just not where > I installed mine. Mine is aft of the firewall, between the boost pump and the > firewall, where it seems to fit nicely under the cover plate. Now you are all > messing with my head making me feel uncomfortable! Anything wrong with my > location? > > > >With the exception of the purge line, all the firewall forward fuel lines were > pre-made, and supplied with my engine, so I didnt want to waste one of those by > adding in the fuel transducer. Since I had to fabricate the fuel lines aft of > the firewall anyway, it was an easy decision to put the transducer back there. > > > >Whats really throwing me is that Dan Checkoway's web site shows the transducer > back by the fuel booster pump as well (see > http://www.rvproject.com/20030520.html). But I see Dan is now recommending the > firewall forward location as well? What gives? Somebody is messin' wit my > head. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 10:52:04 AM PST US From: sportav8r@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: 6 A is flight level when? --> RV-List message posted by: sportav8r@aol.com That's (presumed to be) correct. Someday, I want to see numbers where someone has done their w&b with wheels level and with top longeron level, to see if the difference is truly worth worrying about. It's a lot of work to jack these planes into that configuration and chock the wheels and scales to correct heights (or dig a hole under the nosewheel ;-). I may do it myself if I get bored... -Stormy -----Original Message----- From: Matt Jurotich Sent: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 10:19:00 -0400 Subject: RV-List: 6 A is flight level when? --> RV-List message posted by: Matt Jurotich I am near to getting my RV 6A back in the air after a complete electrical and panel rebuild. I plan on redoing weight and balance. With a slider is the top rail of the slider parallel to the top longeron? The top longeron is Van's reference for on the ground level. I presume the top longeron is "level" when in straight and level flight. Thanks Matthew M. Jurotich e-mail mail to: phone : 301-286-5919 ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 11:27:54 AM PST US From: "Ralph E. Capen" Subject: Re: RV-List: Throttle, Prop, and Mixture cable slack --> RV-List message posted by: "Ralph E. Capen" Phil, Thanks for your 'been there - done that' answer. I'll try it before I swap cables. Ralph -----Original Message----- >From: Phil Birkelbach >Sent: Apr 19, 2006 1:16 PM >To: rv-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: RV-List: Throttle, Prop, and Mixture cable slack > >--> RV-List message posted by: Phil Birkelbach > >I have quite a bit of slack in mine aft of the firewall and they work >fine. I didn't measure it but it's probably close to what you >describe. Just route it somewhere out of the way and keep the bend >radius as large as possible. > >Godspeed, > >Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas >RV-7 N727WB >http://www.myrv7.com > > >Ralph E. Capen wrote: > >>--> RV-List message posted by: "Ralph E. Capen" >> >>Fellow listers, >> >>I'm working on my firewall foreward and since I had already made some decisions before the firewall foreward kit was available, I can't use the stock locations for my throttle and mixture cables. The prop cable went in to the stock location nicely with the one hole eyeball fitting. >> >>There seems to be just a little slack in that cable - just enough to allow flexibility to keep it out of the way. >> >>How much should I have? Upon measuring the cables that I got for the throttle and mixture after putting them in where I could, I have 6" too much throttle cable and 7" too much mixture cable. These are straight shot from the panel/console to the eyeball passthrough the firewall. on the firewall side, I have sufficient 'Lycoming wet dog shake room'. I'm thinking on the aft side of the firewall, I don't need much wiggle room other than to avoid stuff that could get in the way and wear the cable. >> >>Your thoughts please, >>Ralph >>RV6AQB N822AR @ N06 - fun firewall foreward! >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 11:44:30 AM PST US From: "Dan Checkoway" Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel Flow Transducer-Injected --> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" > How did you attach yours? Is it bolted to something or is the tubing > holding it? It's resting on a silicone pad. The tubing is somewhat rigid. Mine is very accurate with the exception of when the boost pump is running. )_( Dan ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 11:54:48 AM PST US From: Kevin Horton Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel Flow Transducer-Injected --> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton On 19 Apr 2006, at 11:52, Paul Besing wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: Paul Besing > > Dont' really know...I've got the cowl off right now > and it's kind of confusing...which is why I asked the > question in the first place...I know that some Cessnas > have this feature (it goes into a 3rd small storage > tank in the cowl) and bonanzas do as well. > > So is it my understanding that I do not need this fuel > return? Seems like an aweful lot of fuel to not > return (maybe 1 gallon per hour). The plane was built > 17 years ago, and has been that way ever since, with 5 > owners, and no problems. Where is that fuel return line coming from? If it is coming from the fuel injection servo, which make and model servo is it? It may be coming from a pressure regulating valve that is part of the high pressure fuel pump. If that is the case, most people run the fuel return into a T in the fuel line from the fuel selector valve. A small number of people use an expensive fuel selector from Andair that has two valves controlled by one knob. That allows you to send the return fuel to whatever tank is currently providing fuel, which avoids the problem of over filling a tank with the return fuel. Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) Ottawa, Canada http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8 ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 01:25:10 PM PST US From: Sherman Butler Subject: Re: RV-List: aircraft registration timing --> RV-List message posted by: Sherman Butler As a traveling contract engineer, I have found each state have complety different tax systems. In my home state Oklahoma an excise tax of 3.25% that is due when registered on the kit and parts not previously taxed, and can only be payed to a registered N nyuber. Other states want the "use tax/sales" as you go. Do not archive. Im at the point in construction of my RV-7A where I need to starting thinking about registration and the DAR signoff. I have been delaying registration since I know it will trigger a request for tax money from the state (California). EAA says to allow 3-6 months for registration paperwork to go through the system. What kind of time frame Sherman Butler RV-7a Empennage Idaho Falls --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 02:55:39 PM PST US From: Kevin Horton Subject: Re: RV-List: 6 A is flight level when? --> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton On 19 Apr 2006, at 10:19, Matt Jurotich wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: Matt Jurotich > > I presume the top longeron is "level" when in straight and > level flight. The pitch attitude in straight and level flight will depend on the airspeed, weight and flap angle, and to a less extent, on CG. Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) Ottawa, Canada http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8 ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 03:11:26 PM PST US From: Charlie Brame Subject: RV-List: RE: Helmet & Headset ponderings --> RV-List message posted by: Charlie Brame I have a pair of Lightspeed 20XLs that I have had about four years. The noise abatement capabilities are great and the headsets are super comfortable, if a bit bulky. After about three years I had to replace the ear pads because the thin leather deteriorated. Lightspeed sent me two new sets of ear pads at no cost, including shipping. I had the opportunity to compare my 20XLs with a Bose set. Up against my very noisy air compressor, one was slightly quieter with ANR turned off, and the other was slightly better using ANR. Unfortunately, I can't remember which did what. In both cases, the difference was minimal. The upshot is, the Lightspeeds were at least the equal of the much more expensive Bose. I will admit to never using a Bose set in the aircraft. Charlie Brame RV-6A N11CB San Antonio --------------------------------- > Time: 09:14:37 PM PST US > Subject: RV-List: Helmet & Headset ponderings > From: Mark E Navratil > > --> RV-List message posted by: Mark E Navratil > > Guys, > > I've been enjoying my trusty helmet but as the wx turns warmer I'm > thinking I'll probably break down and get a good ANR headset. The head > bucket is just too hot to wear when it gets into the upper 80's and > beyond. The other thing I've noticed is that the Oregon Aero earseals in > my helmet get extremely soft with higher temps and don't seem to seal as > well as they do in wintertime....they're very comfortable (as advertised) > but the ANR has a hard time keeping up with the noise level and I find it > bothersome after several hours in the air. FWIW I have the Headsets Inc > ANR in my helmet earcups and I imagine there are better systems available > from the likes of Bose and Lightspeed. > > So...I've been looking at ANR headsets and figure if I'm gonna spend some > dough, might as well get a good one and only cry once. I'm sure Bose is > the best but I can't quite believe the cost/benefit tradeoff is worth the > $1K price tag. So I'm looking at Lightspeed's top-of-the-line Thirty 3G > instead. It is cheap by comparison at about half the price of the Bose X > (iPilot.com has the Thirty 3G for $559 with free shipping). > > Couple questions: does anybody know if Lightspeed might have a better > deal available at Oshkosh? If they have really good show specials it > might be worth waiting... > > Also, any pireps on the Thirty 3G series or similar high-end Lightspeed > model would be appreciated. In general I've heard that Lightspeed > headsets are comfortable and work well, sometimes break but have good > factory support to replace parts. One of my hangarmates has a pair of > well-used Lightspeeds that have the thin covering pealing away from the > foam earseals and head cushions. Still works but looks like crap... > > Thanks as always for the input, > > --Mark Navratil > Cedar Rapids, Iowa > RV-8A N2D flying 25.0 hours now, first oil change just completed... > > ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 03:30:29 PM PST US From: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky) Subject: Re: RV-List: RE: Helmet & Headset ponderings --> RV-List message posted by: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky) Well, I can say I have compared both in the back of an RV8, in flight, side by side and my ears couldn't tell the difference as far as noise attenuation goes. However, the Bose was a much better fit for the back of an RV8. The canopy tapers and since they don't stick out in any direction much I never hit the canopy with them. Can't say that for the Lightspeeds. The Bose are also noticeably lighter and fold up and out of the way easier when not in use. I didn't fly long enough to appreciate that but I'm sure on a long CC the Bose would be easier on the ears and jaw. Was I impressed enough to buy the Bose for myself? Nope but they did make me appreciate a design that differs physically than the Lightspeeds. I instead bought the ANR version QFRXCc. Really good all around product and has the basic same slim profile of the Bose as compared to the Lightspeeds for the back seat. Plus they stay on your head better for aerobatics. They have a full range of features regardless of price. http://www.anrheadsets.com/productsqfrx2.asp Nothing drives an engineer up the wall like having options and making choices ;-) -------------- Original message -------------- From: Charlie Brame > --> RV-List message posted by: Charlie Brame > > I have a pair of Lightspeed 20XLs that I have had about four years. The > noise abatement capabilities are great and the headsets are super > comfortable, if a bit bulky. After about three years I had to replace > the ear pads because the thin leather deteriorated. Lightspeed sent me > two new sets of ear pads at no cost, including shipping. > > I had the opportunity to compare my 20XLs with a Bose set. Up against my > very noisy air compressor, one was slightly quieter with ANR turned off, > and the other was slightly better using ANR. Unfortunately, I can't > remember which did what. In both cases, the difference was minimal. The > upshot is, the Lightspeeds were at least the equal of the much more > expensive Bose. I will admit to never using a Bose set in the aircraft. > > Charlie Brame > RV-6A N11CB > San Antonio > > --------------------------------- > > > Time: 09:14:37 PM PST US > > Subject: RV-List: Helmet & Headset ponderings > > From: Mark E Navratil > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: Mark E Navratil > > > > Guys, > > > > I've been enjoying my trusty helmet but as the wx turns warmer I'm > > thinking I'll probably break down and get a good ANR headset. The head > > bucket is just too hot to wear when it gets into the upper 80's and > > beyond. The other thing I've noticed is that the Oregon Aero earseals in > > my helmet get extremely soft with higher temps and don't seem to seal as > > well as they do in wintertime....they're very comfortable (as advertised) > > but the ANR has a hard time keeping up with the noise level and I find it > > bothersome after several hours in the air. FWIW I have the Headsets Inc > > ANR in my helmet earcups and I imagine there are better systems available > > from the likes of Bose and Lightspeed. > > > > So...I've been looking at ANR headsets and figure if I'm gonna spend some > > dough, might as well get a good one and only cry once. I'm sure Bose is > > the best but I can't quite believe the cost/benefit tradeoff is worth the > > $1K price tag. So I'm looking at Lightspeed's top-of-the-line Thirty 3G > > instead. It is cheap by comparison at about half the price of the Bose X > > (iPilot.com has the Thirty 3G for $559 with free shipping). > > > > Couple questions: does anybody know if Lightspeed might have a better > > deal available at Oshkosh? If they have really good show specials it > > might be worth waiting... > > > > Also, any pireps on the Thirty 3G series or similar high-end Lightspeed > > model would be appreciated. In general I've heard that Lightspeed > > headsets are comfortable and work well, sometimes break but have good > > factory support to replace parts. One of my hangarmates has a pair of > > well-used Lightspeeds that have the thin covering pealing away from the > > foam earseals and head cushions. Still works but looks like crap... > > > > Thanks as always for the input, > > > > --Mark Navratil > > Cedar Rapids, Iowa > > RV-8A N2D flying 25.0 hours now, first oil change just completed... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, I can say I have compared both in the back of an RV8, in flight, side by side and my ears couldn't tell the difference as far as noise attenuation goes. However, the Bose was a much better fit for the back of an RV8. The canopy tapers and since they don't stick out in any direction much I never hit the canopy with them. Can't say that for the Lightspeeds. The Bose are also noticeably lighter and fold up and out of the way easier when not in use. I didn't fly long enough to appreciate that but I'm sure on a long CC the Bose would be easier on the ears and jaw. Was I impressed enough to buy the Bose for myself? Nope but they did make me appreciate a design that differs physically than the Lightspeeds. I instead boughtthe ANR version QFRXCc. Really good all around product and has the basic same slim profile of the Bose as compared to the Lightspeeds for the back seat. Plus they stay on your head better for aerobatics. They have a full range of features regardless of price. http://www.anrheadsets.com/productsqfrx2.asp Nothing drives an engineer up the wall like having options and making choices ;-) -------------- Original message -------------- From: Charlie Brame chasb@satx.rr.com -- RV-List message posted by: Charlie Brame I have a pair of Lightspeed 20XLs that I have had about four years. The noise abatement capabilities are great and the headsets are super comfortable, if a bit bulky. After about three years I had to replace the ear pads because the thin leather deteriorated. Lightspeed sent me two new sets of ear pads at no cost, including shipping. I had the opportunity to compare my 20XLs with a Bose set. Up against my very noisy air compressor, one was slightly quieter with ANR turned off, and the other was slightly better using ANR. Unfortunately, I can't remember which did what. In both cases, the difference was minimal. The u pshot is, the Lightspeeds were at least the equal of the much more expensive Bose. I will admit to never using a Bose set in the aircraft. Charlie Brame RV-6A N11CB San Antonio --------------------------------- Time: 09:14:37 PM PST US Subject: RV-List: Helmet Headset ponderings From: Mark E Navratil -- RV-List message posted by: Mark E Navratil Guys, I've been enjoying my trusty helmet but as the wx turns warmer I'm thinking I'll probably break down and get a good ANR headset. The head bucket is just too hot to wear when it gets into the upper 80's and beyond. The other thing I've noticed is that the Oregon Aero earseals in my helmet get extremely soft with higher temps and don' t seem to seal as well as they do in wintertime....they're very comfortable (as advertised) but the ANR has a hard time keeping up with the noise level and I find it bothersome after several hours in the air. FWIW I have the Headsets Inc ANR in my helmet earcups and I imagine there are better systems available from the likes of Bose and Lightspeed. So...I've been looking at ANR headsets and figure if I'm gonna spend some dough, might as well get a good one and only cry once. I'm sure Bose is the best but I can't quite believe the cost/benefit tradeoff is worth the $1K price tag. So I'm looking at Lightspeed's top-of-the-line Thirty 3G instead. It is cheap by comparison at about half the price of the Bose X (iPilot.com has the Thirty 3G for $559 with free shipping). Couple questions: does a nybody know if Lightspeed might have a better deal available at Oshkosh? If they have really good show specials it might be worth waiting... Also, any pireps on the Thirty 3G series or similar high-end Lightspeed model would be appreciated. In general I've heard that Lightspeed headsets are comfortable and work well, sometimes break but have good factory support to replace parts. One of my hangarmates has a pair of well-used Lightspeeds that have the thin covering pealing away from the foam earseals and head cushions. Still works but looks like crap... Thanks as always for the input, --Mark Navratil Cedar Rapids, Iowa RV-8A N2D flying 25.0 hours now, first oil change just completed... ====== ============================ &g t; ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 04:49:39 PM PST US From: "Alex Peterson" Subject: RE: RV-List: RE: Helmet & Headset ponderings --> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" As another data point, this was from a post I made to this list a couple years back comparing the high end Telex to the Bose: "Telex was a generous sponsor of our Twin Cities RV Forum last year. I already had been flying with a set of Bose X headsets for a couple years in my RV, so the Telex rep and I hopped in my plane for some real time comparisons. My honest assessment was this: The Telex utterly stopped all pulsatile engine noise, so much so that it was unnerving, to me at least. The Bose allow a low level of the engine noise to come through, such that I have really gotten used to "hearing" the plane as subtle changes in airspeed/power occur. My perception, and it may not be real, is that there was more hissing (from airflow around the plane) allowed through the Telex, but that would require instrumentation to determine. I felt that the Bose were more comfortable, but that is something that would take hours of comparison to really establish. I believe that the Telex model we had was about $100 less than the Bose X, but don't recall exactly. We talked about bringing some of their instrumentation aboard to really nail it, but we haven't done so as yet." Alex Peterson RV6-A N66AP 751 hours Maple Grove, MN ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 04:58:05 PM PST US From: "Tracy Crook" Subject: Re: RV-List: 6 A is flight level when? --> RV-List message posted by: "Tracy Crook" True, which brings up a related subject. Anyone know what the AOA of the 230xx airfoil on the RV is at any typical cruise speed? I need to make a decision on whether to change from stock RV incidence on my "long wing" RV-8. Span is 3 feet longer than stock which should result in a lower AOA for any given condition. I have a program to predict the appropriate change but don't know what it is to start with and haven't seen it in the plans book. Tracy Crook > --> RV-List message posted by: Matt Jurotich > > > I presume the top longeron is "level" when in straight and > level flight. The pitch attitude in straight and level flight will depend on the airspeed, weight and flap angle, and to a less extent, on CG. Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) Ottawa, Canada http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8 ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 05:57:23 PM PST US From: "Konrad L. Werner" Subject: Re: RV-List: 6 A is flight level when? --> RV-List message posted by: "Konrad L. Werner" Hi Tracy, How come you extended your std. RV-8 Wings to become 3ft. longer? Just curious to find out your reason. Do not archive SNIP ...on my "long wing" RV-8. Span is 3 feet longer than stock ... SNIP Tracy Crook -- ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 06:20:29 PM PST US From: Charlie Kuss Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel Flow Transducer-Injected --> RV-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss Paul This has been discussed on the Yahoo RV8 List several times before. JPI has an Acrobat file installation manual. In it, they recommend installing the transducer between the servo and the fuel distributor. It gets installed in the middle of a flex hose, so it isn't subjected to all the vibration of the engine. Check out the document on the web link below. Look at page 8 http://www.jpinstruments.com/700-800_FF_install.PDF Charlie Kuss >--> RV-List message posted by: Paul Besing > >First question, where's a good place to put this in >the stream of fuel? I'm not too savvy on injected >engines. > >While talking with Electronics International today, I >was told that since there is a return of unused fuel, >I'll need TWO transducers and a little box that >computes the unused fuel. This adds about $300 to the >price of my fuel flow, and am wondering if it's worth >it now. Thoughts? > >Paul Besing >RV-4 >N73DD >Arizona (For Now) > > ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 06:25:58 PM PST US From: Kevin Horton Subject: Re: RV-List: 6 A is flight level when? --> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton The AOA will be quite low. If the airfoil was a true 23013.5 series, and this was a 2D wing (i.e. there were no effects from the fuselage or wing tip, the AOA at 1600 lb, 212 mph at 8,000 ft would be about 0.3 degrees (value calculated by XFOIL). If we drop the cruise speed to 189 mph, the AOA would be about 0.6 degrees. I understand that the leading edge of the RV airfoil differs slightly from the NACA profile. And, the local AOA is not constant along the span, due to the effect of the fuselage and wing tip. So the above values must be considered as approximate. Kevin Horton On 19 Apr 2006, at 19:55, Tracy Crook wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: "Tracy Crook" > > True, which brings up a related subject. > > Anyone know what the AOA of the 230xx airfoil on the RV is at any > typical cruise speed? I need to make a decision on whether to > change from stock RV incidence on my "long wing" RV-8. Span is 3 > feet longer than stock which should result in a lower AOA for any > given condition. I have a program to predict the appropriate > change but don't know what it is to start with and haven't seen it > in the plans book. > > Tracy Crook > > >> --> RV-List message posted by: Matt Jurotich >> > >> >> I presume the top longeron is "level" when in straight and >> level flight. > > The pitch attitude in straight and level flight will depend on the > airspeed, weight and flap angle, and to a less extent, on CG. > > Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) > Ottawa, Canada > http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8 > > ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 07:06:13 PM PST US From: "Bob Barrow" Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel Flow Transducer-Injected --> RV-List message posted by: "Bob Barrow" I can understand that any restriction upstream of the engine fuel pump might tend to increase the possibility of vapour lock. However you would think that the AFP electric fuel boost pump itself would cause some sort of restriction....surely the filter would. And then there's the people who also use gascolators...or additional filters in the wing roots etc. Wouldn't all of these things create some degree of resistance to flow. Why is the fuel flow transducer being singled out...does it present an exceptional resistance to flow. Have there been any reported cases of vapour lock associated with locating the transducer upstream of the engine fuel pump....or is this just more "worry bucket" stuff. Does anybody have any pix of their fuel transducer mounted between the servo and the divider (and off the engine as has been recommended). Have the people who have done this had universally good metering results...despite the fact that they "may" not have the prerequisite 5" of straight line before and after the transducer and may not have it mounted vertically as recommended by the manufacturer. Decisions, decisions...phew. New year, new job there's more than 100,00 jobs at SEEK http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fninemsn%2Eseek%2Ecom%2Eau&_t=752315885&_r=Jan05_tagline&_m=EXT ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 07:06:14 PM PST US Subject: RV-List: Re: 6 A is flight level when? From: "bdjones1965" --> RV-List message posted by: "bdjones1965" Tracy - Regarding the 3' longer wings, did you consider the change in flutter characteristics of the new wings? How about longitudinal stability? Not trying to be a downer on new ideas, but I would be very concerned about the change in resonance characteristics of the wing. And to a lesser degree the stability. Just curious Bryan Jones, PE, -8 Houston, Texas Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=29551#29551 ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 07:26:23 PM PST US From: "Jerry Isler" Subject: RV-List: Scott Crossfield --> RV-List message posted by: "Jerry Isler" Off topic post! DO NOT ARCHIEVE. Has anyone heard anything about Scott Crossfield going down around Rome, Georgia this morning? I caught the tail end of a news cast about this and have no other details. Jerry Isler Donalsonville, GA RV-4 N455J Cessna C140A N9641A ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 08:36:36 PM PST US From: WPAerial@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Dakotas --> RV-List message posted by: WPAerial@aol.com you should fly into sturgis. the 1st week of aug. is the bike ralley, but sturgis is already get strong. airport there will let you use the car. nice folks. also there is the summer white house of Calvin Coolidge at custer's state park. nice place for lunch. we called and a van came and picked us up. do not archive ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 09:15:30 PM PST US From: "Randy Lervold" Subject: Re: RV-List: 6 A is flight level when? --> RV-List message posted by: "Randy Lervold" The standard angle of incidence on the RV-4 and RV-8 is .5 degrees. The guppy planes (side-by-side) are 1.0 degrees. Curiously the RV-3 is also 1.0 degrees. Randy Lervold ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tracy Crook" Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 4:55 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: 6 A is flight level when? > --> RV-List message posted by: "Tracy Crook" > > True, which brings up a related subject. > > Anyone know what the AOA of the 230xx airfoil on the RV is at any typical > cruise speed? I need to make a decision on whether to change from stock > RV incidence on my "long wing" RV-8. Span is 3 feet longer than stock > which should result in a lower AOA for any given condition. I have a > program to predict the appropriate change but don't know what it is to > start with and haven't seen it in the plans book. > > Tracy Crook > > >> --> RV-List message posted by: Matt Jurotich >> > >> >> I presume the top longeron is "level" when in straight and >> level flight. > > The pitch attitude in straight and level flight will depend on the > airspeed, weight and flap angle, and to a less extent, on CG. > > Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) > Ottawa, Canada > http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8 > > >