Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:10 AM - Re: That wasted Spark (G McNutt)
2. 05:44 AM - Re: FF Kit (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Mich=E8le_Delsol?=)
3. 06:11 AM - Re: DOUBLE FLARING (Charlie Kuss)
4. 06:55 AM - Re: IO 550 N (Rhonda Bewley)
5. 07:12 AM - FF Kit/Quality (John Furey)
6. 07:39 AM - Re: Vent from battery requested (Tim Bryan)
7. 07:59 AM - GPS antenna firewall quick connect (Ron Patterson)
8. 08:28 AM - Re: GPS antenna firewall quick connect (Dan Checkoway)
9. 08:31 AM - Re: That wasted Spark (Tim Bryan)
10. 08:37 AM - Re: GPS antenna firewall quick connect (Vanremog@aol.com)
11. 09:02 AM - Re: Tru Trak ADI Pilot II (Jekyll)
12. 09:13 AM - Re: That wasted Spark (Jim Cimino)
13. 10:02 AM - Stainless steel brackets (Doug Weiler)
14. 10:20 AM - Re: IO 550 N (John Neel)
15. 10:29 AM - Re: Stainless steel brackets (Jeff Orear)
16. 10:51 AM - Re: Stainless steel brackets (Ed Anderson)
17. 10:57 AM - Re: FF Kit (Terry Watson)
18. 11:17 AM - copper antenna tape (Frazier, Vincent A)
19. 11:34 AM - Fuel Injected - or Not (Valovich, Paul)
20. 12:19 PM - Re: Fuel Injected - or Not (Dan Checkoway)
21. 12:22 PM - Re: Fuel Injected - or Not (Ron Lee)
22. 12:56 PM - Re: Fuel Injected - or Not (James H Nelson)
23. 01:07 PM - Re: Fuel Injected - or Not (scott bilinski)
24. 01:07 PM - Re: Fuel Injected - or Not (scott bilinski)
25. 01:29 PM - Re: Fuel Injected - or Not (Sam Buchanan)
26. 02:03 PM - Re: Oshkosh Traffic (macrafic)
27. 03:22 PM - Re: GPS antenna firewall quick connect (Charles Reiche)
28. 03:24 PM - Re: Fuel Injected - or Not (Jim Sears)
29. 05:15 PM - Anywheremap weather (Dale Walter)
30. 05:15 PM - Re: Fuel Injected - or Not (Tedd McHenry)
31. 05:29 PM - Re: Fuel Injected - or Not (RobHickman@aol.com)
32. 05:41 PM - Re: Anywheremap weather (John Fasching)
33. 05:54 PM - Re: Fuel Injected - or Not (james frierson)
34. 06:18 PM - Re: Fuel Injected - or Not (Alex Peterson)
35. 07:13 PM - Re: Fuel Injected - or Not (Joe Larson)
36. 07:26 PM - Re: Re: Oshkosh Traffic (Jeff Point)
37. 08:03 PM - Re: Vent from battery requested (Ed Holyoke)
38. 08:37 PM - Re: Fuel Injected - or Not (Sherman Butler)
39. 10:28 PM - Re: Re: Tru Trak ADI Pilot II (Stan Jones)
40. 10:28 PM - Re: GPS antenna firewall quick connect (Stan Jones)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: That wasted Spark |
--> RV-List message posted by: G McNutt <gmcnutt@shaw.ca>
Sorry Stan, you have two coils and each coil has two spark plug leads.
When a coil is triggered a spark goes out each lead and one spark plug
lights a fire and the other spark is wasted.
Stan Jones wrote:
> It would only be if the sensor for the electronic ignition was mounted
> at the front of the crankshaft,
> and was triggered each engine rotation would you get that wasted spark.
> My E I is triggered by a Hall Effect sensor mounted on the accessory
> case, that is geared
> two to one with the crankshaft.
> I will not get that Ryton sump destroying Wasted Spark will I.
> Am I correct ?
> Comments please.
> Stan
>
>
>
>
>
> <http://www.incredimail.com/index.asp?id=409&lang=9>
Message 2
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Thanks for the info as I myself also ordered a TMX-IO360 ' AL sump,
PMags
and Vans standard cow. As you did, I am going personal on all the
electrical
stuff; Mufflers ' also via Vetterman direct. As for gascolators, I am
putting a couple of Andairs at the wing roots.
Not sure about the cables and brackets ' what would you recommend?
Oil cooler ' same here ' going SW from Pacific ' great people to
work with '
good advice.
It seems that after removing the above, all that is left is all of the
little items which a first time builder is sure not to have on hand,
each of
which will take tons of time to get.
Thanks,
Michele ' RV8 Fuselage (France)
_____
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Vern W.
Sent: dimanche 11 juin 2006 02:25
Subject: Re: RV-List: FF Kit
Importance: High
John,
I bought the Mattituck TMX IO-360 w/AFP fuel injection plus two P-mags.
My
engine was built with the hollow crank in case I might later want to
change
to a CS prop, but I am going to install and fly with a Catto 3-blade FP.
Like you, I also had to do some head scratching about the FWF kit and
what I
came up with was that the best match for my engine was to get the FWF
item
#FF-7A O-360 FP.
However, I still made some changes of either straight deletions or
exchanges
as follows:
I deleted the gascolator (don't need it with the AFP-FI).
I deleted ALL the electrical harnesses and master relay and starter
solenoid. (I'll get what I need elsewhere).
I deleted the throttle and mixture cables and bracket (I'm using a
throttle
quadrant from DJM).
I changed out the standard FWF 60a alternator for the new 60a alternator
w/internal OV protection.
I deleted the standard oil cooler and instead bought the Stewart Warner
replacement from Pacific.
I deleted the standard Vetterman exhaust and instead bought the same
exhaust
directly from Vetterman except with the mufflers.
You can obviously see that most of those changes were as per my personal
preference as opposed to changes mandated by my engine installation. For
the
most part, I think if you just delete the gascolator, you might be able
to
use all the rest.
I am also using the Sam James Cowl and Plenum, so be aware that you need
to
ask Mattituck to get the special bracket from AFP that's made to fit
with
the Sam James Plenum.
I hope that gets you in the right direction.
Vern Wanzong
RV7-A
Houston, TX
On 6/9/06, John Furey <john@fureychrysler.com> wrote:
Larry, I am leaning towards the TMX O or IO-360 and would appreciate any
input.
Thanks
John
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: DOUBLE FLARING |
--> RV-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss <chaztuna@adelphia.net>
Mick,
I had considered doing EXACTLY what you propose. However, I found
that the vise block on the automotive double flaring tool had
serrations designed to prevent slippage of the steel automotive
tubing. These serrations imprinted themselves onto the soft aluminum
tubing. These creates stress risers, which I found unacceptable. I
created a "favorite search" for the correct tool on EBay. After
several months, I was able to purchase the tool for $137.
Check with your A&P friends or your local EAA Chapter. They may be
willing to loan or rent you the tool.
Charlie Kuss
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Mick Muller" <mmul6471@bigpond.net.au>
>
>Greetings Listers, I have been told that the safest way to treat
>flares brake and fuel fittings is with a double flaring tool. I can
>get my hands on a double flaring tool, but it is a 45degree fitting
>not 37 degree. I was thinking that I could use the double flaring
>tool to make the initial folded over flare, then my single 37degree
>flaring tool to finish it off. Does anyone see a problem with this approach??
>Thanks, Mick
>
>
Message 4
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John:
Is the engine damaged? How much are you asking for the engine core?
Thank you.
Rhonda
________________________________
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Neel
Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2006 6:02 PM
Subject: RV-List: IO 550 N
I have a IO 550 N out of a Cirrus SR22 605 TT NDH 3 Blade Scimitar
propeller and single lever engine management system. Interest for RV
10's ? Price with or without core. JN
Message 5
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Thanks to all who have provided info on the two issues. They have been very
helpful and reassuring.
John Furey
Do Not Archive
Message 6
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| Subject: | Vent from battery requested |
Hi Ed,
I didn't see any recomendation in that article for venting, but interesti
ng
reading. My battery is the standard concord RG series battery. Van's do
esn
t show or suggest a vent in the pland or manual. Hopefully the issue won
't
be pushed such that I need to install one.
Thanks
Tim
-------Original Message-------
From: Ed Holyoke
Subject: RE: RV-List: Vent from battery requested
What kind of battery are you going to use? If a flooded lead acid battery
,
then a sealed box with drain is a real good idea. If a recombinant gas
battery, like the concord RG series or the Odyssey, you could hold it dow
n
with a strap and it would be fine. RG batteries don=92t outgas and don=92
t need
vents. They also crank the engine over like a SOB. Read up here:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/rg_bat.html
Pax,
Ed Holyoke
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Bryan
Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2006 7:34 PM
Subject: RV-List: Vent from battery requested
Hello Listers,
As I am nearing completion and eventual inspection of my -6 I had the DAR
out to have a look under the panel and front area before I install the
sticks and other injury items for laying in there. He suggested I instal
l a
vent from the battery box down out of the plane. He apparently had a bad
experience with an overcharged battery when a charge system ran away.
I have not heard of this before. Does anyone have any experience in this
?
If this is a very rare situation, than it hardly seems necessary. What d
o
you think? Outside of this, he was happy with all my work and gave me lot
s
of pointers of little things to tidy up in the engine area.
Tim
RV-6
N616TB
Message 7
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| Subject: | GPS antenna firewall quick connect |
Does anyone know how to properly make up a disconnect at the firewall for my GPS
antenna?
I have mounted the antenna for my Garmin 396 under the engine cowling. What I
don't know is how to splice into the antenna wire and make up a proper firewall
quick connect/disconnect that will enable me to take off the cowl without fishing
the antenna wire through the firewall every time.
Is it OK to splice the antenna wire? how? which connectors do I use?
Appreciate your ideas.
Ron
N8ZD - just weeks now!
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: GPS antenna firewall quick connect |
Make a shelf on the firewall for the antenna? That way removing the
cowl is independent of the antenna.
)_( Dan
----- Original Message -----
From: Ron Patterson
To: rv-list-digest@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, June 12, 2006 7:56 AM
Subject: RV-List: GPS antenna firewall quick connect
Does anyone know how to properly make up a disconnect at the firewall
for my GPS antenna?
I have mounted the antenna for my Garmin 396 under the engine cowling.
What I don't know is how to splice into the antenna wire and make up a
proper firewall quick connect/disconnect that will enable me to take off
the cowl without fishing the antenna wire through the firewall every
time.
Is it OK to splice the antenna wire? how? which connectors do I use?
Appreciate your ideas.
Ron
N8ZD - just weeks now!
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: That wasted Spark |
When I turn the light switch off in my office, the electricity isn't bein
g
wasted because there is no load on it. Could this be true for this
situation? No load, no spark
-------Original Message-------
From: G McNutt
Subject: Re: RV-List: That wasted Spark
--> RV-List message posted by: G McNutt <gmcnutt@shaw.ca>
Sorry Stan, you have two coils and each coil has two spark plug leads.
When a coil is triggered a spark goes out each lead and one spark plug
lights a fire and the other spark is wasted.
Stan Jones wrote:
> It would only be if the sensor for the electronic ignition was mounted
> at the front of the crankshaft,
> and was triggered each engine rotation would you get that wasted spark.
> My E I is triggered by a Hall Effect sensor mounted on the accessory
> case, that is geared
> two to one with the crankshaft.
> I will not get that Ryton sump destroying Wasted Spark will I.
> Am I correct ?
> Comments please.
> Stan
>
>
> <http://www.incredimail.com/index.asp?id=409&lang=9>
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Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: GPS antenna firewall quick connect |
In a message dated 6/12/2006 8:02:35 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
scc_ron@yahoo.com writes:
Does anyone know how to properly make up a disconnect at the firewall for my
GPS antenna?
I have mounted the antenna for my Garmin 396 under the engine cowling. What
I don't know is how to splice into the antenna wire and make up a proper
firewall quick connect/disconnect that will enable me to take off the cowl
without fishing the antenna wire through the firewall every time.
Is it OK to splice the antenna wire? how? which connectors do I use?
=========================================
IIRC mine's a TNC type.
GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A, C/S, Flying 792hrs, Silicon Valley, CA)
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Tru Trak ADI Pilot II |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jekyll" <rcitjh@aol.com>
Fabian Lefler at Affordable Panels has good prices on TruTrak products, in fact,
he has great prices on all products year round. (I have no connection to the
company other than being a VERY satisfied customer)
http://www.affordablepanels.com
Jekyll
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=40133#40133
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: That wasted Spark |
I am not familiar with the waste spark system you are talking about, but
am familiar with the automotive system. If you have two plugs being
fired by a single coil, then the system fires one plug positive and one
negative creating a complete circuit. The coil fires the first plug
positive the voltage goes to ground continues though the engine block,
jumps from the negative electrode to the positive electrode on the
second plug and continues back to the coil. This means that one plug is
firing on the top of the compression stroke and the other on the exhaust
stroke...the wasted spark. I have a simulator in my classroom that when
slowed way down you can actually see the positive and negative firing.
Jim
Jim Cimino
N7TL
RV-8 S/N 80039
150+ Hours
http://www.geocities.com/jcimino.geo/
----- Original Message -----
From: Tim Bryan
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, June 12, 2006 11:30 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: That wasted Spark
When I turn the light switch off in my office, the electricity
isn't being wasted because there is no load on it. Could this be true
for this situation? No load, no spark
-------Original Message-------
From: G McNutt
Date: 06/12/06 01:15:35
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: That wasted Spark
--> RV-List message posted by: G McNutt <gmcnutt@shaw.ca>
Sorry Stan, you have two coils and each coil has two spark plug
leads.
When a coil is triggered a spark goes out each lead and one
spark plug
lights a fire and the other spark is wasted.
Stan Jones wrote:
> It would only be if the sensor for the electronic ignition was
mounted
> at the front of the crankshaft,
> and was triggered each engine rotation would you get that
wasted spark.
> My E I is triggered by a Hall Effect sensor mounted on the
accessory
> case, that is geared
> two to one with the crankshaft.
> I will not get that Ryton sump destroying Wasted Spark will I.
> Am I correct ?
> Comments please.
> Stan
>
>
>
>
>
> <http://www.incredimail.com/index.asp?id=409&lang=9>
=========================
============
he RV-List Email Forum -
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
=========================
============
sp; - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
nics.com
=========================
============
sp; - List Contribution Web Site -
sp; -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
//www.matronics.com/contribution
=========================
============
Message 13
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| Subject: | Stainless steel brackets |
Greetings:
Does anyone know who makes the stainless steel wheel pant brackets for
RVs??
Thanks
Doug Weiler
N722DW
Message 14
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Rhonda, There is no damage to the engine or propeller. The total time
is 605hours and they are complete. I would like a IO 360 core or
approximate value. Call with any questions. Regards John Neel Cell
435-632-2917
----- Original Message -----
From: Rhonda Bewley
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, June 12, 2006 7:51 AM
Subject: RE: RV-List: IO 550 N
John:
Is the engine damaged? How much are you asking for the engine core?
Thank you.
Rhonda
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Neel
Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2006 6:02 PM
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Subject: RV-List: IO 550 N
I have a IO 550 N out of a Cirrus SR22 605 TT NDH 3 Blade Scimitar
propeller and single lever engine management system. Interest for RV
10's ? Price with or without core. JN
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
6/9/2006
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Stainless steel brackets |
Fairings Etc at www.fairings-etc.com
Regards,
Jeff Orear
RV6A N782P
Peshtigo, WI
----- Original Message -----
From: Doug Weiler
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, June 12, 2006 11:59 AM
Subject: RV-List: Stainless steel brackets
Greetings:
Does anyone know who makes the stainless steel wheel pant brackets for
RVs??
Thanks
Doug Weiler
N722DW
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Stainless steel brackets |
Note these fairing are designed for Van's "Pressure Recovery" wheel
pants. They are not suited for the older "slimmer" wheel pants of the
RV-6A. I ordered a pair and tried to adapt them to my older wheel
pants. They are well made and sturdy but I finally ended up making my
own out of Stainless steel. It was just easier than trying to adapt
these - but, perhaps I gave up to easy.
Ed
Ed Anderson
Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews, NC
eanderson@carolina.rr.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Orear
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, June 12, 2006 1:27 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Stainless steel brackets
Fairings Etc at www.fairings-etc.com
Regards,
Jeff Orear
RV6A N782P
Peshtigo, WI
----- Original Message -----
From: Doug Weiler
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, June 12, 2006 11:59 AM
Subject: RV-List: Stainless steel brackets
Greetings:
Does anyone know who makes the stainless steel wheel pant brackets
for RVs??
Thanks
Doug Weiler
N722DW
Message 17
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Aerosport Power installed the Airflow Performance fuel injection on a
Superior IO-360-B1B (180 hp) engine for my RV-8A. I ordered the firewall
forward kit from Vans. There were some duplications. I remember that the
plate that attaches the filtered air box (F.A.B.) to the fuel meter box
came
from both AFP and Van=92s, but I had to make a custom one anyway to move
the
F.A.B. about 3/8=94 to one side to center it in the bottom cowl scoop.
This is
the part that several have experienced cracks with, so I built it out of
heavier aluminum than the original. It=92s a simple flat oval, so it
wasn=92t
difficult to make.
I have a couple of hoses left over that I didn=92t need, and had to
order two
more that I didn=92t get from either source. One is the 42=94 long
=BC=94
firesleeved line that runs from the purge valve on the top of the engine
back to the firewall. The other is the 3/8=94 firesleeved line with a 90
degree pipe bend on one end that runs from the firewall to the
mechanical
fuel pump. Mine will be 15=94 long. I ordered both from Airflow
Performance
last week and expect to get them today or tomorrow. I think the two
hoses
will cost just a little under $200.
I did install an Andair gascolator in the left wing root, although I now
don=92t think that was any improvement over the AFP fuel filter that I
did not
install. But all that bent tubing looks impressive.
Terry
RV-8A firewall forward almost done
Seattle
_____
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mich=E8le
Delsol
Sent: Monday, June 12, 2006 5:42 AM
Subject: RE: RV-List: FF Kit
Thanks for the info as I myself also ordered a TMX-IO360 ' AL sump,
PMags
and Vans standard cow. As you did, I am going personal on all the
electrical
stuff; Mufflers ' also via Vetterman direct. As for gascolators, I am
putting a couple of Andairs at the wing roots.
Not sure about the cables and brackets ' what would you recommend?
Oil cooler ' same here ' going SW from Pacific ' great people to
work with '
good advice.
It seems that after removing the above, all that is left is all of the
little items which a first time builder is sure not to have on hand,
each of
which will take tons of time to get.
Thanks,
Michele ' RV8 Fuselage (France)
Message 18
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| Subject: | copper antenna tape |
Any of you guys need some copper tape to make your hidden antenna??
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8292565445&rd=1&ss
pag
ename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT&rd=1
Vince
Message 19
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| Subject: | Fuel Injected - or Not |
Indecision is the key to flexibility. One of the great things about
building an airplane: it's ok to change one's mind.
I'm about at the engine ordering stage for my RV-8A QB. I have done a
lot of research and thought I had made a rationale, educated decision -
a new 180 hp horizontal induction fuel injected engine from Aerosport.
However, a buddy casually posed the question: "Why fuel injection?" and
I realized that other than the fact it seemed newer and sexier, I had no
compelling answer as to why fuel injection might be worth the additional
cost and pump installation complexity.
I live in the Mojave (Ridgecrest, CA); carb icing isn't a compelling
driver.
So a question for all you old hands out there - Is fuel injection really
worth the extra several thousand bucks? Why or why not?
Also, does anyone know of any document that shows an in depth analysis
of why or why not?
Paul Valovich
Booger
-8A QB
Message 20
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|
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Injected - or Not |
Run LOP and fuel injection can "pay for itself" in less time than TBO.
Beyond that, the savings are pure gravy. Gas isn't getting any cheaper,
and the cost savings by burning 1-2 fewer gph is increasing on a daily
basis. That is, the savings increase as gas prices increase.
To those who think the 200hp IO-360-A1B6 angle valve engine "should"
burn more fuel than smaller, less powered engines...I burn about 7.5 gph
at wide open throttle doing 170 KTAS. Injected...wouldn't have it any
other way.
You asked for opinions. 8^)
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D (935 hours)
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Valovich, Paul
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, June 12, 2006 11:32 AM
Subject: RV-List: Fuel Injected - or Not
Indecision is the key to flexibility. One of the great things about
building an airplane: it's ok to change one's mind.
I'm about at the engine ordering stage for my RV-8A QB. I have done a
lot of research and thought I had made a rationale, educated decision -
a new 180 hp horizontal induction fuel injected engine from Aerosport.
However, a buddy casually posed the question: "Why fuel injection?" and
I realized that other than the fact it seemed newer and sexier, I had no
compelling answer as to why fuel injection might be worth the additional
cost and pump installation complexity.
I live in the Mojave (Ridgecrest, CA); carb icing isn't a compelling
driver.
So a question for all you old hands out there - Is fuel injection
really worth the extra several thousand bucks? Why or why not?
Also, does anyone know of any document that shows an in depth analysis
of why or why not?
Paul Valovich
Booger
-8A QB
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Injected - or Not |
>So a question for all you old hands out there ' Is fuel injection really
>worth the extra several thousand bucks? Why or why not?
>
>Also, does anyone know of any document that shows an in depth analysis of
>why or why not?
One benefit of Fuel Injection (FI) is the ability to run lean of
peak. That should
save fuel but I cannot show that it is worth the additional cost.
A reported drawback of FI is hard starting under hot conditions (supposedly
after landing then starting a short time later).
You did go with 180 HP which is good. Whether it makes sense to go for
more horsepower is another factor I cannot quantify. However, given that I
could get more horsepower for the same cost of FI personally I would go
for the horsepower.
Ron Lee
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Injected - or Not |
--> RV-List message posted by: James H Nelson <rv9jim@juno.com>
Paul,
The main reason is fuel economy. You can run lean of peak with
fuel injection and the best you can run is about 50 deg rick of peak with
a carburetor. Fuel distribution with fuel injection can be almost dead
on where as carburetors can not do that. With fuel costs the way they
are and not going to get any better, FI was the way I chose. Plus if
you travel to places where carb heat is necessary - so comes the problems
associated with it. Just my humble opinion.
Jim Nelson
IO-360
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Injected - or Not |
For me:
A smoother running engine and balanced fuel flow saving an immediate .5 GPH for
the life of the engine. Now, all EGT's peak at the same time. This is a little
work but easy to do. You can also able to run LOP. I have flown side by side
with a carbureated RV-7 (I have an 8a injected) and used 2.0 GPH less than
they did on a 3.5 hr flight one way. Oh, I also have dual EI so that helped. So
I used 14 gallons less!!!!!! Also read ALL of John Deakins articles on running
LOP. Might have to read them 3 times before it all sinks in but worth while
in order to REALLY understand what goes on in a engine. So go here and sort through
and read all articles "Pelicans Pearch"
http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/list.html
"Valovich, Paul" <pvalovich@dcscorp.com> wrote:
st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) } Indecision is the
key to flexibility. One of the great things about building an airplane: its ok
to change ones mind.
Im about at the engine ordering stage for my RV-8A QB. I have done a lot of research
and thought I had made a rationale, educated decision a new 180 hp horizontal
induction fuel injected engine from Aerosport. However, a buddy casually
posed the question: Why fuel injection? and I realized that other than the
fact it seemed newer and sexier, I had no compelling answer as to why fuel injection
might be worth the additional cost and pump installation complexity.
I live in the Mojave (Ridgecrest, CA); carb icing isnt a compelling driver.
So a question for all you old hands out there Is fuel injection really worth
the extra several thousand bucks? Why or why not?
Also, does anyone know of any document that shows an in depth analysis of why
or why not?
Paul Valovich
Booger
-8A QB
__________________________________________________
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Injected - or Not |
This is a better link to Deakins articles. Cut and paste?
http://www.avweb.com/cgi-bin/texis/scripts/avweb-search/search.html?publication=avflash&publication=bizav&publication=avweb&query=john+deakin&Go.x=11&Go.y=6
Scott in San Diego
"Valovich, Paul" <pvalovich@dcscorp.com> wrote:
st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) } Indecision is the
key to flexibility. One of the great things about building an airplane: its ok
to change ones mind.
Im about at the engine ordering stage for my RV-8A QB. I have done a lot of research
and thought I had made a rationale, educated decision a new 180 hp horizontal
induction fuel injected engine from Aerosport. However, a buddy casually
posed the question: Why fuel injection? and I realized that other than the
fact it seemed newer and sexier, I had no compelling answer as to why fuel injection
might be worth the additional cost and pump installation complexity.
I live in the Mojave (Ridgecrest, CA); carb icing isnt a compelling driver.
So a question for all you old hands out there Is fuel injection really worth
the extra several thousand bucks? Why or why not?
Also, does anyone know of any document that shows an in depth analysis of why
or why not?
Paul Valovich
Booger
-8A QB
__________________________________________________
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Injected - or Not |
--> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
Valovich, Paul wrote:
> Indecision is the key to flexibility. One of the great things about
> building an airplane: its ok to change ones mind.
>
>
>
> Im about at the engine ordering stage for my RV-8A QB. I have done a
> lot of research and thought I had made a rationale, educated decision
> a new 180 hp horizontal induction fuel injected engine from Aerosport.
> However, a buddy casually posed the question: Why fuel injection? and
> I realized that other than the fact it seemed newer and sexier, I had no
> compelling answer as to why fuel injection might be worth the additional
> cost and pump installation complexity.
Your friend is a very perceptive fellow!
After nine years of watching, building, maintaining, inspecting, and
flying RV's, it has been my observation that those pilots with fuel
injection spend more time and money getting their planes to operate the
way they want them to than the carbed pilots. I have yet to hear one of
them volunteer how much money they are saving on fuel.
The carburator guys just bolt on the engine and go flying. :-)
I'm not implying one system is better than the other, just offering my
observations.
Sam Buchanan (RV-6, 748 hrs)
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Oshkosh Traffic |
--> RV-List message posted by: "macrafic" <macrafic@charter.net>
Saturday is actually 2 days before Oshkosh starts (starts on Monday). I live only
1.5 hours flight from Oshkosh and fly in at this time every year. Traffic
is light, but picks up late morning/early afternoon. As long as you read the
NOTAM, and make a cheat sheet for you to follow (frequencies, patterns, etc.),
you should be OK. Also, ATC has posted pictures on the AirVenture web site
that shows you just what you will see from the air and what landmarks to look
for. I've flown in alone without any problem, but a right seater with you surely
lessens the load. Can't comment on your choice or parking, since I don't
(yet) have a completed homebuilt and always park in the North 40. However, I
DO walk around on Saturday and there seems to be PLENTY of space in every parking
sector. Maybe somebody else can comment on the parking situation from personal
experience. Good luck! I LOVE flying into Oshkosh. You get a real sense
of accomplishment, and a real appreciation for the controllers and all the
rest of the Oshkosh ground crews. The only thing missing is the red carpet to
step on when you exit your aircraft! But, there ARE red-carpet people that will
greet you.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=40215#40215
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: GPS antenna firewall quick connect |
The "big puck" of the 396 antenna is like a usb cable and would be tricky to mount
out there, personally I wouldnt mount any gps antennas inside the engine cowling.
----- Original Message -----
From: Ron Patterson
To: rv-list-digest@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, June 12, 2006 10:56 AM
Subject: RV-List: GPS antenna firewall quick connect
Does anyone know how to properly make up a disconnect at the firewall for my
GPS antenna?
I have mounted the antenna for my Garmin 396 under the engine cowling. What I
don't know is how to splice into the antenna wire and make up a proper firewall
quick connect/disconnect that will enable me to take off the cowl without fishing
the antenna wire through the firewall every time.
Is it OK to splice the antenna wire? how? which connectors do I use?
Appreciate your ideas.
Ron
N8ZD - just weeks now!
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Injected - or Not |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Sears" <jmsears@adelphia.net>
> Your friend is a very perceptive fellow!
>
> After nine years of watching, building, maintaining, inspecting, and
> flying RV's, it has been my observation that those pilots with fuel
> injection spend more time and money getting their planes to operate > the
> way they want them to than the carbed pilots. I have yet to hear > one of
> them volunteer how much money they are saving on fuel.
>
> The carburator guys just bolt on the engine and go flying. :-)
>
> I'm not implying one system is better than the other, just offering my >
> observations.
>
I tend to echo Sam's observations.
If a reason for justifying the cost of fuel injection is the fuel savings
one will have, one is missing a good deal. If one really wants to save
money on fuel costs, auto gas has a much higher savings rate than maybe a .5
gallon savings per hour of 100LL. At 8gph of fuel, that equates to about $2
per hour savings on 100LL. Local mogas prices allow me about $10.50 savings
with the same 8 gallons. In 2000 hours of flying, that could equate to $21K
in savings. Whoah! That would go a long way toward the price on another
engine, if one invests the savings. Of course, one who doesn't favor using
mogas might see the fuel injection system as the better approach; but,
taking the savings on the carby and fuel to the bank works well for my
wallet.
I just wonder which system has more problems. It seems I see more folks
having fuel injection systems worked on than I do with carbys. That's not
to say that they have more problems. It's just that I've observed more fuel
injection systems being worked on as I've visited the local FBO's shop. If
I'm right, maybe the predicted savings using a fuel injected engine would be
eaten up by the costs of maintaining it? Just a thought.
I guess I like the simplicity of the carb and will stick with that for
myself. Each of us has his own ways to justify the system used. Pick the
one that works best for you.
Jim Sears in KY
EAA Tech Counselor
Message 29
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| Subject: | Anywheremap weather |
Good evening,
How do I turn off the Echo Tops feature on the laptop version (XP) of
Anywheremap weather? It covers up the terrain features. Also would love
to connect to XM box via bluetooth, but it seems rather tricky for the
Sony VGN-TX690P laptop, so I am using the USB cord for now.
Thanks,
Dale Walter
RV6a, day 5 of WX from XM
do not archive
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Injected - or Not |
--> RV-List message posted by: Tedd McHenry <tedd@vansairforce.org>
An even better URL for Pelican's Perch:
http://tinyurl.com/lej9v
---
Tedd McHenry
Surrey, BC, Canada
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Injected - or Not |
My RV-4 has an Aerosport Power IO-360B1B and it has worked perfectly for the
last 400+ hours. The plane starts very easy when it is cold and has not
been a problem when it is hot. I have never run a battery down trying to get
it
to start.
A good friend has an O-320 from Powersport with a carb and no primer in his
RV-6a. It is a total pain to start when it is cold. He has run the battery
down a number of times trying to get it to start.
Sam Buchanan wrote:
The carburator guys just bolt on the engine and go flying. :-)
you forgot...
After they install and connect a heat muff for carb heat, carb heat control
cable, primer hoses, primer pump, carb temp sensor, carb temp sensor wiring,
.....
The reason I chose fuel injection:
1. No carb heat
2. I had been in an RV and it would sputter when we were down side up.
3. I had been told that Fuel Injection would tolerate water in the fuel
better.
Rob Hickman
N401RH RV-4
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Anywheremap weather |
Dale, try Control Vision forums web site for the best answers re any AWM
probelm. FWIF
John
----- Original Message -----
From: Dale Walter
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, June 12, 2006 6:11 PM
Subject: RV-List: Anywheremap weather
Good evening,
How do I turn off the Echo Tops feature on the laptop version (XP) of
Anywheremap weather? It covers up the terrain features. Also would love
to connect to XM box via bluetooth, but it seems rather tricky for the
Sony VGN-TX690P laptop, so I am using the USB cord for now.
Thanks,
Dale Walter
RV6a, day 5 of WX from XM
do not archive
Message 33
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| Subject: | Fuel Injected - or Not |
--> RV-List message posted by: "james frierson" <tn3639@hotmail.com>
Seems like with the higher fuel pressure one could run Mogas without the
vapor lock problem thus saving more $$$$. I have heard of hot start problems
with FI but I have a carb and have no problems starting hot or cold. I would
like to use Mogas but am afraid of vapor lock so I stick with 100LL.
Scott
>So a question for all you old hands out there - Is fuel injection really
>worth the extra several thousand bucks? Why or why not?
>
>
>Also, does anyone know of any document that shows an in depth analysis
>of why or why not?
>
>Paul Valovich
>
>Booger
>
>-8A QB
>
>
Message 34
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| Subject: | Fuel Injected - or Not |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson@earthlink.net>
> Your friend is a very perceptive fellow!
>
> After nine years of watching, building, maintaining, inspecting, and
> flying RV's, it has been my observation that those pilots with fuel
> injection spend more time and money getting their planes to
> operate the
> way they want them to than the carbed pilots. I have yet to
> hear one of
> them volunteer how much money they are saving on fuel.
>
> The carburator guys just bolt on the engine and go flying. :-)
>
> I'm not implying one system is better than the other, just
> offering my
> observations.
>
> Sam Buchanan (RV-6, 748 hrs)
Well, clearly there will be disagreements on this thread. I have no clue
about the actual percentage of users which have trouble with carbs vs FI,
but I do know that I burn less fuel with my Airflow Performance FI than most
carb equipped planes do. A noticable amount less. I have flown many, many
hours side by side with other RV's, on long cross country flights, and at
cruises in the 155 - 160 knot TAS range, where I burn between 1 and 2
gallons per hour less (this is at MAP's of about 22", 2300 rpm, relatively
low percent power, maybe 58 to 60%). How many of you cruise with fuel flows
of 7.1 to 7.3 gph, at 155 to 160 ktas? Most carbs cannot be run, even with
electronic ignition (a big factor), in the LOP region. I do not have much
experience with my plane in the 75% power regime, but the differences would
be expected to be even greater there, since keeping the engine out of the
"red zone" (higher cht's, among other nasty combustion effects) is more
important there, and tends to spread the LOP/ROP fuel flows even more.
Even at 1 gph savings, it equates to something like $3000 worth of fuel at
today's prices that I've saved up to now in 759 hours of flying my RV.
I would welcome flying side by side with anyone wanting hard data,
particularly where so many variables are involved.
For those building and trying to decide, I simply have offered another
viewpoint.
Alex Peterson
RV6-A N66AP 759 hours
Maple Grove, MN
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Injected - or Not |
--> RV-List message posted by: Joe Larson <jpl@showpage.org>
But Alex, you also have a very well-crafted airplane. I wonder if
some of your gas savings is because you have a lower drag airplane
than some of the folks you compare against.
Everything adds up. I have no doubt some of the savings is from the
FI. But I bet some of it's coming from other aspects of your airplane.
-Joe
do not archive
On Jun 12, 2006, at 8:15 PM, Alex Peterson wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson"
> <alexpeterson@earthlink.net>
>
> Well, clearly there will be disagreements on this thread. I have
> no clue
> about the actual percentage of users which have trouble with carbs
> vs FI,
> but I do know that I burn less fuel with my Airflow Performance FI
> than most
> carb equipped planes do. A noticable amount less.
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: Oshkosh Traffic |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jeff Point <jpoint@mindspring.com>
Maybe somebody else can comment on the parking situation from personal experience.
You'll have no trouble getting a parking spot in RV land on Saturday morning.
Parking doesn't really get tight until about late Monday into Tuesday. By Wednesday
people begin leaving and spots open up. Monday through Wednesday are the
best days for RV-looking.
With that said, we are getting the same amount of space as last year, to park what
will undoubtably be more RVs than last year. We'll likely end up having to
tail planes into rows in order to fit them in, so nose-gear guys, bring your
tow bars.
Jeff
Message 37
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| Subject: | Vent from battery requested |
Howdy Tim,
Our plane has been running the Concord RG 25 that fits the standard
battery box for 700 plus hours. There's no vent for the box and no need
for one. You can mount the battery on it's side if you want and it won't
leak. Your DAR is thinking about the old style battery with vent/filler
caps that you had to open up every so often to check the level of the
electrolyte. Our Cessna had one of those and a vented box with a tube
exiting the bottom of the cowl. It was corroded inside from the battery
venting itself. Had to clean it up with baking soda and repaint pretty
much every year. Not going back to that noise!
Educate your DAR as to the newer technology. Concord still makes the old
style flooded battery and the newer RG one. Go to Concord battery's
website or Hawker's (the manufacturer of the Odyssey) for more info.
Panasonic and others also make suitable RG batteries.
Pax,
Ed Holyoke
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Bryan
Sent: Monday, June 12, 2006 7:37 AM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Vent from battery requested
Hi Ed,
I didn't see any recomendation in that article for venting, but
interesting reading. My battery is the standard concord RG series
battery. Van's doesn't show or suggest a vent in the pland or manual.
Hopefully the issue won't be pushed such that I need to install one.
Thanks
Tim
-------Original Message-------
From: Ed Holyoke <mailto:bicyclop@pacbell.net>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Vent from battery requested
What kind of battery are you going to use? If a flooded lead acid
battery, then a sealed box with drain is a real good idea. If a
recombinant gas battery, like the concord RG series or the Odyssey, you
could hold it down with a strap and it would be fine. RG batteries don't
outgas and don't need vents. They also crank the engine over like a SOB.
Read up here:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/rg_bat.html
Pax,
Ed Holyoke
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Bryan
Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2006 7:34 PM
Subject: RV-List: Vent from battery requested
Hello Listers,
As I am nearing completion and eventual inspection of my -6 I had the
DAR out to have a look under the panel and front area before I install
the sticks and other injury items for laying in there. He suggested I
install a vent from the battery box down out of the plane. He
apparently had a bad experience with an overcharged battery when a
charge system ran away.
I have not heard of this before. Does anyone have any experience in
this? If this is a very rare situation, than it hardly seems necessary.
What do you think? Outside of this, he was happy with all my work and
gave me lots of pointers of little things to tidy up in the engine area.
Tim
RV-6
N616TB
Message 38
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| Subject: | Fuel Injected - or Not |
Is it self selecting? Perhaps people who want to experiment with FI chose FI.
That is why I am planning on FI.
Do Not archive
After nine years of watching, building, maintaining, inspecting, and flying RV's,
it has been my observation that those pilots with fuel injection spend more
time and money getting their planes to operate the way they want them to than
the carbed pilots.
Sherman Butler
RV-7a Wings
Idaho Falls
__________________________________________________
Message 39
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|
| Subject: | Re: Tru Trak ADI Pilot II |
I can second that. He really goes out of his way to ensure things are OK.
I am another satisfied customer.
Stan
-------Original Message-------
From: Jekyll
Subject: RV-List: Re: Tru Trak ADI Pilot II
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jekyll" <rcitjh@aol.com>
Fabian Lefler at Affordable Panels has good prices on TruTrak products, i
n
fact, he has great prices on all products year round. (I have no connecti
on
to the company other than being a VERY satisfied customer)
http://www.affordablepanels.com
Jekyll
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=40133#40133
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Message 40
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|
| Subject: | Re: GPS antenna firewall quick connect |
You can get BNC connecters that go through a bulkhead.
I have some.
Stan
-------Original Message-------
From: Ron Patterson
Subject: RV-List: GPS antenna firewall quick connect
Does anyone know how to properly make up a disconnect at the firewall for
my
GPS antenna?
I have mounted the antenna for my Garmin 396 under the engine cowling. Wh
at
I don't know is how to splice into the antenna wire and make up a proper
firewall quick connect/disconnect that will enable me to take off the cow
l
without fishing the antenna wire through the firewall every time.
Is it OK to splice the antenna wire? how? which connectors do I use?
Appreciate your ideas.
Ron
N8ZD - just weeks now!
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