---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 06/25/06: 16 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:41 AM - Re: Trio EZ Pilot-Redux (Paul Besing) 2. 04:47 AM - Re: Vans New Nose Gear Fork (David Burden) 3. 07:36 AM - RV-10 Empennage For Sale (Tim Nash) 4. 12:39 PM - "putting back" the vinyl (sarg314) 5. 12:57 PM - Re: "putting back" the vinyl (Sam Buchanan) 6. 01:14 PM - Re: "putting back" the vinyl (Mickey Coggins) 7. 02:13 PM - Re: "putting back" the vinyl (Dave Nellis) 8. 03:31 PM - vetterman exhaust, RV-6A with 0-360 (sarg314) 9. 03:46 PM - Re: vetterman exhaust, RV-6A with 0-360 (FLYaDIVE@aol.com) 10. 04:19 PM - Re: vetterman exhaust, RV-6A with 0-360 (sarg314) 11. 04:43 PM - Re: vetterman exhaust, RV-6A with 0-360 (FLYaDIVE@aol.com) 12. 06:31 PM - RV 10 main intersection fairins ready (Bob Snedaker) 13. 06:55 PM - Re: "putting back" the vinyl (Jim Jewell) 14. 07:19 PM - Re: "putting back" the vinyl (Steven DiNieri) 15. 10:24 PM - Trio Report (Wheeler North) 16. 10:40 PM - Re: RV 10 main intersection fairins ready (Paul Besing) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:41:28 AM PST US From: Paul Besing Subject: Re: RV-List: Trio EZ Pilot-Redux --> RV-List message posted by: Paul Besing Haven't flown mine yet...still finishing up the install. I can tell you this, TruTrak has some serious competition for the wing leveler/heading market. I sent my TruTrak Digitrak back. So far from the support, manual, and features, this thing is a slam dunk. TruTrak may have great higher end autopilots, but this thing blows the digitrak away. Oh and Navaid? It was a sweet ride while it lasted! How many autopilot companies monitor and respond to RV-List questions...on the weekend, no less? Paul Besing RV-4 N73DD Arizona Haven't even flown the Trio and lovin' it. --- Larry Pardue wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: Larry Pardue > > > Howdy, > > I was very discouraged with my brand new Trio > EZ-Pilot last night > after having found out it is not plug and play with > my Navaid > autopilot and then discovering baffling turn > coordinator display > issues and accompanying strange aircraft behavior. > Tonight I am > greatly encouraged and happy about my decision to > get the EZ-Pilot. > > Tonight I treated the machine in a way it would be > normally treated > after an install. First I took a hint from Gary > Sobek and moved just > one of my analog steering wires to a different > position on the GPS > connector and to a different position on the old > Navaid connector. > That let the GPS talk to the EZ-Pilot. Then I > verified, on the > ground, that the connection was working properly, > then started up and > flew. > > Things were completely different than yesterday. > First I tried all > the EZ-Pilot functions, and there are some real nice > ones. I think > the one I will use the most is where you are > tracking a course line, > then ATC tells you to turn 15 degrees right, rather > than disengage > the autopilot and have to hand fly, you can just > give it the course > to fly, then intercept the old course later, if > needed. Everything > worked beautifully and smoothly. > > Then I tried to duplicate what happened yesterday by > turning off the > GPS, entering calibration screens, turning off the > autopilot and > everything I could think of, in every order I could > think off, but I > could not confuse the autopilot. About the worst > thing I could get > to happen would be to do a steep turn then return to > wings level > flight and the turn coordinator would very slightly > and briefly > overshoot, showing an opposite direction turn. > > The only thing I can think of is what the Trio > engineer suggested > this morning. Since I never had the GPS working > correctly yesterday, > the gyro (gyros?) may never have gotten properly > oriented and may > have used an out of date bias value. As stated in > their literature, > they do not use gravity to help orient the gyro. > Today I tried what I > was worried about yesterday. I would fly a course > then turn off the > GPS. No problem, it just gave a no GPS warning and > kept trucking. I > would then maneuver (everything short of aerobatics) > and return to > straight and level with proper indications the whole > time. I also > tried wings level yaws, and yes the indicator reacts > to that. In a > stable slip it indicates level/straight, which seems > logical. > > And yes, if you were already using digital GPS > information for your > existing Navaid, it would be a fifteen minute > installation, although > Trio doesn't make that claim. If you were using > analog steering > information, you have to run one new wire, or move > an existing one over. > > By the way, those of you in the tailwheel, versus > tri-gear debate, > which I don't participate in, here is some fodder. > The tailwheel > airplane is at a big disadvantage when you drop > those little tiny > screws and nuts from the D connectors onto the > uncarpeted floor > while upside down working in a restricted area under > the panel. They > scurry straight downhill and lodge under the spar > (RV-6) where they > are lost forever. > > I really appreciate the great and cheerful support > Trio gave me > today. You guys have a terrific product. > > Larry Pardue > Carlsbad, NM > > RV-6 N441LP Flying > http://n5lp.net > > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > > > Admin. > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:47:20 AM PST US From: David Burden Subject: RV-List: Re: Vans New Nose Gear Fork Listers, I also just switched my RV9a fork to the new style. Van now uses the new fork exclusively--it comes standard in his kits. I did not send mine off but purchased a high quality threader (adjustable and not Chinese) removed the leg, clamped it in wood in a big vise, and proceeded to induce a severe case of tendenitis. I used a large "stock" or handle for the threader and had some help. Every 1/2 thread we stopped and blew out the metal and applied more cutting oil. It took about 5 cycles using progressively tighter adjustment on the threader until the nut threaded properly. The threads must be extended up about 1 inch to accomodate the new fork. We then used a mechanical hack saw to cut off the excess 1 inch of gear leg. The saw cut it without any problem. It took me a day and a half to get the threads right but it was better than sending it off to the Oregon machine shop that Vans recommends -- the cost quoted by the shop was good ($75) but the shipping was going to be expensive and I did not want the plane down for 2 wks. I also thought about simply buying a new gear leg already made for the new fork but learned that my leg was one of the last to be match drilled to my specific motor mount. I understand that now all legs are drilled to a common jig. I did not want to take the chance of minor alignment issues. If you have questions about the process you can email me direct. Cheers, db ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:36:20 AM PST US From: "Tim Nash" Subject: RV-List: RV-10 Empennage For Sale I am moving to a RV-9A and have a completed RV-10 empennage for sale. It can be viewed at www.trucktrac.com/rv_project will not turn down any reasonable offer. Has been inspected by technical advisor and documented. Tim Nash (703) 591-1634 tim.nash3@verizon.net ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 12:39:27 PM PST US From: sarg314 Subject: RV-List: "putting back" the vinyl --> RV-List message posted by: sarg314 I'll be cutting/drilling my panel soon. It doesn't have any protective vinyl on it (if indeed it ever did). Is there any way I can protect the surface from scratching while I work on it? I need to be able to draw on what ever I cover it with, although I guess I could draw on the bare aluminum first and then coat it with something transparent. Any ideas? -- Tom Sargent, RV-6A ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 12:57:16 PM PST US From: Sam Buchanan Subject: Re: RV-List: "putting back" the vinyl --> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan sarg314 wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: sarg314 > > I'll be cutting/drilling my panel soon. It doesn't have any protective > vinyl on it (if indeed it ever did). Is there any way I can protect > the surface from scratching while I work on it? I need to be able to > draw on what ever I cover it with, although I guess I could draw on the > bare aluminum first and then coat it with something transparent. > > Any ideas? Masking tape. Sam Buchanan ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 01:14:25 PM PST US From: Mickey Coggins Subject: Re: RV-List: "putting back" the vinyl --> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins > I'll be cutting/drilling my panel soon. It doesn't have any protective > vinyl on it (if indeed it ever did). Is there any way I can protect > the surface from scratching while I work on it? I need to be able to > draw on what ever I cover it with, although I guess I could draw on the > bare aluminum first and then coat it with something transparent. > > Any ideas? > -- > Tom Sargent, RV-6A Tom, you can go to just about any home improvement store and buy clear shelf paper that will stick nicely. I use this stuff all over the project when I want to temporarily protect something. It sticks well, but is easy to peel off without leaving behind a lot of gunk. Prevents scratching, and is easy to mark on with a permanent marker. -- Mickey Coggins http://www.rv8.ch/ #82007 finishing do not archive ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 02:13:32 PM PST US From: Dave Nellis Subject: Re: RV-List: "putting back" the vinyl --> RV-List message posted by: Dave Nellis Sam has good idea. But to better it that idea, use blue painter's masking tape. It has lighter tack and won't leave a glue residue if left on for a long time. Dave --- Sam Buchanan wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan > > > sarg314 wrote: > > --> RV-List message posted by: sarg314 > > > > > I'll be cutting/drilling my panel soon. It > doesn't have any protective > > vinyl on it (if indeed it ever did). Is there > any way I can protect > > the surface from scratching while I work on it? I > need to be able to > > draw on what ever I cover it with, although I > guess I could draw on the > > bare aluminum first and then coat it with > something transparent. > > > > Any ideas? > > > > Masking tape. > > Sam Buchanan > > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > > > Admin. > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 03:31:59 PM PST US From: sarg314 Subject: RV-List: vetterman exhaust, RV-6A with 0-360 --> RV-List message posted by: sarg314 I'm trying to get my exhaust to fit with the cowl - clearance between heat muff (on the right side of plane) and the lower cowl is an issue. When I get the pipes twisted around so that they 1) give me the best clearance between heat muff & cowl and ehxhaust pipe & engine mount 2) exit the cowl scoop pretty well parallel to the long axis of the plane as seen from looking up laying underneath it, the right one is angled down a lot more than the left one. Left one (which has lots of clearance) is about 25 deg. rel. to bottom of fuselage, right one is about 40 deg. Is this normal? The end of the right pipe sticks down about 2.5" below the ram scoop while the left one stick down about 1.5". My recollection is that RV's usually have some assymmetry in this respect. Or, have I just got it adjusted wrong? - Tom Sargent ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 03:46:21 PM PST US From: FLYaDIVE@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: vetterman exhaust, RV-6A with 0-360 --> RV-List message posted by: FLYaDIVE@aol.com In a message dated 6/25/06 6:33:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time, sarg314@comcast.net writes: > 2) exit the cowl scoop pretty well parallel to the long axis of the > plane as seen from looking up laying underneath it, > > the right one is angled down a lot more than the left one. Left one > (which has lots of clearance) is about 25 deg. rel. to bottom of > fuselage, right one is about 40 deg. Is this normal? > > The end of the right pipe sticks down about 2.5" below the ram scoop > while the left one stick down about 1.5". My recollection is that RV's > usually have some assymmetry in this respect. > Or, have I just got it adjusted wrong? > - > Tom Sargent ======================= Tom: You are correct. I have the same problem ... right one is lower than the left. I also have been fighting CO in the cabin. I tried what I believe is very thing ... Until I came up with a solution. I added extensions with a downward bend and a baloney cut to the exhaust. This reduced the CO to ZERO. But, the right side is still lower than the left. Barry "Chop'd Liver" ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 04:19:48 PM PST US From: sarg314 Subject: Re: RV-List: vetterman exhaust, RV-6A with 0-360 --> RV-List message posted by: sarg314 FLYaDIVE@aol.com wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: FLYaDIVE@aol.com > >In a message dated 6/25/06 6:33:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >sarg314@comcast.net writes: > > > >>2) exit the cowl scoop pretty well parallel to the long axis of the >> plane as seen from looking up laying underneath it, >> >> the right one is angled down a lot more than the left one. Left one >> (which has lots of clearance) is about 25 deg. rel. to bottom of >> fuselage, right one is about 40 deg. Is this normal? >> >> The end of the right pipe sticks down about 2.5" below the ram scoop >> while the left one stick down about 1.5". My recollection is that RV's >> usually have some assymmetry in this respect. >> Or, have I just got it adjusted wrong? >> - >> Tom Sargent >> >> >======================= >Tom: > >You are correct. I have the same problem ... right one is lower than the >left. I also have been fighting CO in the cabin. I tried what I believe is very >thing ... Until I came up with a solution. I added extensions with a >downward bend and a baloney cut to the exhaust. This reduced the CO to ZERO. > >But, the right side is still lower than the left. > >Barry >"Chop'd Liver" > > Barry: Interesting. Which way was the cut? Was it horizontal or vertical? -- Tom S. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 04:43:04 PM PST US From: FLYaDIVE@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: vetterman exhaust, RV-6A with 0-360 --> RV-List message posted by: FLYaDIVE@aol.com In a message dated 6/25/06 7:21:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time, sarg314@comcast.net writes: > Barry: > Interesting. Which way was the cut? Was it horizontal or vertical? > -- > Tom S. ========================== Tom: HORIZONTAL and parallel to the ground in a S&L flight ... I'm an RV-6 ;-) I really had to get the exhaust down and into the air-stream. It was being sucked in at points I could not find. I did seal off the flap area, wing root, and added a scupper in the tail. NO great improvement. But when I added the extensions .. WOW Z E R O CO! Barry "Chop'd Liver" ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:31:43 PM PST US From: Bob Snedaker Subject: RV-List: RV 10 main intersection fairins ready --> RV-List message posted by: Bob Snedaker They can be ordered on my web site: www.fairinga-etc.com. Costs are: Upper Main Intersection Fairings (one set) $120 Lower Main Intersection Fairings (one set) $130 Please shipping/handling and sales tax where applicable. Thanks for your support. -- Sincerely, Bob Snedaker Fairings-Etc PO Box 5488 Goodyear, AZ 85338 623 203 9795 -- Sincerely, Bob Snedaker Fairings-Etc PO Box 5488 Goodyear, AZ 85338 623 203 9795 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 06:55:10 PM PST US From: "Jim Jewell" Subject: Re: RV-List: "putting back" the vinyl --> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" Hi,Tom, I used 2" wide masking tape on mine. I drew a grid of one inch squares on the tape over the whole panel that was quite helpful during layout and cutting process. Jim in Kelowna ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2006 12:31 PM > --> RV-List message posted by: sarg314 > > I'll be cutting/drilling my panel soon. It doesn't have any protective > vinyl on it (if indeed it ever did). Is there any way I can protect the > surface from scratching while I work on it? I need to be able to draw on > what ever I cover it with, although I guess I could draw on the bare > aluminum first and then coat it with something transparent. > > Any ideas? > -- > Tom Sargent, RV-6A > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List > http://wiki.matronics.com > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:19:04 PM PST US From: "Steven DiNieri" Subject: RE: RV-List: "putting back" the vinyl --> RV-List message posted by: "Steven DiNieri" I've used shelfliner "contact paper" from wally world that has "post it" type adhesive to protect any painted surfaces I work near. Its easily removed and has a descent thickness to prevent booboo's. Steve capsteve@adelphia.net 40205 -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Jewell Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2006 9:56 PM --> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" Hi,Tom, I used 2" wide masking tape on mine. I drew a grid of one inch squares on the tape over the whole panel that was quite helpful during layout and cutting process. Jim in Kelowna ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2006 12:31 PM > --> RV-List message posted by: sarg314 > > I'll be cutting/drilling my panel soon. It doesn't have any protective > vinyl on it (if indeed it ever did). Is there any way I can protect the > surface from scratching while I work on it? I need to be able to draw on > what ever I cover it with, although I guess I could draw on the bare > aluminum first and then coat it with something transparent. > > Any ideas? > -- > Tom Sargent, RV-6A > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List > http://wiki.matronics.com > > > -- No virus found in this incoming message. -- ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:24:27 PM PST US From: Wheeler North Subject: RV-List: Trio Report --> RV-List message posted by: Wheeler North Well, I haven't had much chance to speak to this much due to an unusual bunch of stuff to do, but I've been flying the Trio altitude hold version 2 for a while now, fine tuning a few of the safety features of it. Wow, what a neat upgrade to an already awesome system. Having vertical speed management is way cool. Just tick the encoder and rotate to the VS you want and pop the go button and the VSI locks onto that number. I never realized how quickly I get bored with 300 fpm and add power for a rocket rise. But this deal makes it really easy to "manage" a proper climb to cruise or an approach. I'm not really an IFR person, and certainly don't recommend hard IFR with a non-certified unit, but this thing stays pegged to the approach plate using its numbers. There are some neat safety features like min and max airspeed settings one can capture. When these are hit the unit will give up on sustained altitude and prevent the airspeed exceptions. The low speed thought is if one does pass out and fly until no fuel then the unit will start into a slow speed descent rather than allowing a stall. Their units also have a number of places where they can be customized in various settings like differing gains for the different modes of operation, and dead band, and a host of others. This is the same philosphy used in their autopilot which can be equally fine tuned if one so desires. That said, while I played with all of these, a lot, just to see what did what and how we could get it to operate the smoothest between descents, climbs, holds, and turns, in both minimum and maximum conditions the truth is our final results were pretty close to their defaults so most will not have to tweek it much, if any. Under most conditions it holds within 20 ft. At worst case I set up a 2000 fpm blast downhill and popped the hold on and it recovers within 40 to 60 ft and gently returns the plane to the "set" altitude. The encoder can still be adjusted in hold to compensate for pressure changes. The unit does require that Pitot and Static are run to it for the safety features of it to be functional, and they must be functional or it won't let you play spin the bottle. Installation is a breeze in most RVs as they have some neat kits for this, although one can't avoid the trip back into the tail cone section for half a day or so... The other neat feature is it will drive the pitch trim motor to keep the trim matched to the current airspeed. This is really cool when one goes to disengage after slowing down quite a bit for a final approach. Of course this only works for those with electric trim. As well it can be used in conjunction with your existing trim operations with the use of a relay. All in all this is a great product in its first form, and it is an even better product in this next enhanced version. (I would also add that the two versions are more than just software different, they need some extra components in the main brain box as well as a few software tweeks to the others.) And to the list police I do not work for the three pros from Dover, nor do I make a dime off of those tightwads... (OK, I lied, they are prodisiously generous and are adamant about helping with my fuel costs on some of the debugging flights we've done. And they do occasionally attept to poison me with a special blend of the the Navy's finest South Pole, heart popping black tar java, which doubles as a wonderful fuel tank sealant as well as eliminating any remote need for those delighful Ex-lax products.) And finally, to those who wish to debate Trio vs their competitors issues I'm not up to going there. I personally feel the Trio units have enough more useful features for an equal cost value that it's a no brainer for me. W ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 10:40:52 PM PST US From: Paul Besing Subject: Re: RV-List: RV 10 main intersection fairins ready --> RV-List message posted by: Paul Besing Bob, you had a typo below for your website. I'm assuming you wanted them to go to www.fairings-etc.com Paul Besing --- Bob Snedaker wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: Bob Snedaker > > > They can be ordered on my web site: > www.fairinga-etc.com. > > Costs are: > Upper Main Intersection Fairings (one set) $120 > Lower Main Intersection Fairings (one set) $130 > > Please shipping/handling and sales tax where > applicable. > > Thanks for your support. > -- > Sincerely, > Bob Snedaker > Fairings-Etc > PO Box 5488 > Goodyear, AZ 85338 > 623 203 9795 > > -- > Sincerely, > Bob Snedaker > Fairings-Etc > PO Box 5488 > Goodyear, AZ 85338 > 623 203 9795 > > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > > > Admin. > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________