---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 07/06/06: 39 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:56 AM - Idle Mixture in Fuel Injected Engine (Charles Brame) 2. 03:51 AM - Re: Idle Mixture in Fuel Injected Engine (Charles Reiche) 3. 05:14 AM - Re: 4 into 1 exhaust (glen matejcek) 4. 05:37 AM - sun sahdes (Bill VonDane) 5. 06:09 AM - Re: sun sahdes (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)) 6. 06:32 AM - Re: sun shades (Ron Lee) 7. 06:51 AM - Re: sun shades (sportav8r@aol.com) 8. 06:53 AM - Re: 4 into 1 exhaust (Charlie Kuss) 9. 07:24 AM - Re: sun shades (Ron Lee) 10. 07:27 AM - Re: sun shades (Bill VonDane) 11. 07:27 AM - Re: sun shades (Dan Checkoway) 12. 07:44 AM - Heater vent inlet up vs down (Ralph E. Capen) 13. 07:56 AM - Re: Fossil energy fuel to produce ethanol (Chris W) 14. 08:32 AM - Re: Cowl Louvers (Rick Galati) 15. 08:32 AM - Re: N161RL Flies (Charles Rowbotham) 16. 08:42 AM - Re: 4 into 1 exhaust (dannylsmith) 17. 08:48 AM - Gluing Canopy Skirt - RV-8 (rveighta) 18. 09:00 AM - (BPA) 19. 09:36 AM - Re: Gluing Canopy Skirt - RV-8 (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)) 20. 09:52 AM - Fossil energy fuel to produce ethanol (James H Nelson) 21. 10:31 AM - Re: sun shades (Larry Bowen) 22. 10:42 AM - Oil fitting position (James H Nelson) 23. 10:57 AM - Looking for Bob Hargraves (Richard Sipp) 24. 11:47 AM - Re: Gluing Canopy Skirt - RV-8 (Frank Stringham) 25. 11:58 AM - Need Help with Cowling Ducts (Morocketman@aol.com) 26. 12:41 PM - airplane items on Ebay (Frazier, Vincent A) 27. 12:49 PM - Re: MOGAS Use (Tracy Crook) 28. 01:17 PM - Re: airplane items on Ebay (Ron Lee) 29. 01:24 PM - Re: airplane items on Ebay (Paul Besing) 30. 02:09 PM - Re: Fuel economy / was Fossil energy fuel..... (Tracy Crook) 31. 03:03 PM - Re: Fuel economy / was Fossil energy fuel..... (Dan Checkoway) 32. 03:14 PM - Re: Gluing Canopy Skirt - RV-8 (John Huft) 33. 03:27 PM - Re: Fuel economy / was Fossil energy fuel..... (Ed Bundy) 34. 04:23 PM - Re: sun shades (Jim Jewell) 35. 05:00 PM - Re: Re: Fossil energy fuel to produce ethanol (c.ennis) 36. 05:05 PM - Re: Fossil energy fuel to produce ethanol (RV Builder (Michael Sausen)) 37. 05:59 PM - Oil fittings on the case (James H Nelson) 38. 07:01 PM - Re: Oil fittings on the case (Terry Watson) 39. 07:04 PM - Re: Oil fittings on the case (D.Bristol) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:56:24 AM PST US From: Charles Brame Subject: RV-List: Idle Mixture in Fuel Injected Engine --> RV-List message posted by: Charles Brame My experience with carburated engines was that a proper idle mixture usually results in a momentary RPM increase when using the mixture to shut the engine down. I've noted that when I shut down my fuel injected engine using the mixture control, I get NO increase in RPM before the engine quits. Is the no increase in RPM typical of FI engines, or am I running too lean? Charlie Brame RV-6A N11CB San Antonio ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:51:11 AM PST US From: Charles Reiche Subject: Re: RV-List: Idle Mixture in Fuel Injected Engine --> RV-List message posted by: Charles Reiche Probably, consult the maintenace manual, you will likely need some hoses and a guage to setup your fuel injection system to spec. its also good just to check this out every 2 years or so just to make sure everything is working the way its supposed to. ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 4:47 AM > --> RV-List message posted by: Charles Brame > > My experience with carburated engines was that a proper idle mixture > usually results in a momentary RPM increase when using the mixture to > shut the engine down. I've noted that when I shut down my fuel injected > engine using the mixture control, I get NO increase in RPM before the > engine quits. > > Is the no increase in RPM typical of FI engines, or am I running too > lean? > > Charlie Brame > RV-6A N11CB > San Antonio > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List > http://wiki.matronics.com > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:14:08 AM PST US From: "glen matejcek" Subject: RV-List: RE: 4 into 1 exhaust --> RV-List message posted by: "glen matejcek" Hi Charlie- There was a company somewhere in the Virginias that was making 4 into 1 systems a few years back. Sorry, I don't recall the name- glen matejcek aerobubba@earthlink.net ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:37:17 AM PST US From: "Bill VonDane" Subject: RV-List: sun sahdes --> RV-List message posted by: "Bill VonDane" Hey all... I was wanting to get some feedback on the kroger sunshade. I just got one for my -8, but after looking at it, and my canopy, and reading the instructions I am worried about it scratching the canopy over time... Anyone have any experience with this? What about other sunshande solutions? Thaznks! -Bill VonDane RV-8A ~ N8WV Colorado Springs, CO www.rv8a.com do not archive ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:09:44 AM PST US From: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" Subject: RE: RV-List: sun sahdes --> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" It scratched my canopy on my rv-6 out towards the ends. I have not seen the rv8 installation but assuming it's the wires in the shade material and the shade hugs the canopy.. then you will see scratches over time where it rubs. Mike Do not archive -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill VonDane Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 8:36 AM --> RV-List message posted by: "Bill VonDane" Hey all... I was wanting to get some feedback on the kroger sunshade. I just got one for my -8, but after looking at it, and my canopy, and reading the instructions I am worried about it scratching the canopy over time... Anyone have any experience with this? What about other sunshande solutions? Thaznks! -Bill VonDane RV-8A ~ N8WV Colorado Springs, CO www.rv8a.com do not archive ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:32:24 AM PST US From: Ron Lee Subject: Re: RV-List: sun shades --> RV-List message posted by: Ron Lee Bill, come see the great one and I will show you what I use. It is a suction cup sunshade that I got at Pep Boys. It comes in a small folded up size (with pouch). The advantage over the Koger is that you can move it to different locations based upon sun direction and your flight path. Ron Lee ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:51:29 AM PST US From: sportav8r@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: sun shades Automotive tint film (the static cling kind) as sold by Wal-Mart has worked well for me. From one roll of the stuff you can cut out numerous small shades which let you and your pax slap them up wherever needed and reposition as the flight progresses. A nice under-$10 solution. -Stormy -----Original Message----- Sent: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 07:30:48 -0600 --> RV-List message posted by: Ron Lee Bill, come see the great one and I will show you what I use. It is a suction cup sunshade that I got at Pep Boys. It comes in a small folded up size (with pouch). The advantage over the Koger is that you can move it to different locations based upon sun direction and your flight path. Ron Lee ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:53:07 AM PST US From: Charlie Kuss Subject: Re: RV-List: 4 into 1 exhaust Listers, AET was recently sold by the original owner. He sold the assets to two different companies. One of the new owners has no interest in low volume production. The other new owner is not yet settled into this new business and reports that they won't even consider new items for at least 6 months, maybe longer. We tried to arrange a group buy of 4 into 1 exhausts on the Yahoo RV8 group, but it fell through due to this sale. Charlie Kuss >Charlie, > >Have you talked to these people? > >http://www.aircraftexhaust.net/ > >I see that the have one that doesn't list the A models, but maybe >they'll make one up for you. > >Pax, > >Ed Holyoke > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charlie Kuss >Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2006 7:47 AM >To: rv-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: RV-List: RE MOGAS Use With FI Engines > >Glen, > You can try anything you want. If it damages the engine you're the > only one who has to pay. I fully intend to use auto fuel in my > RV8A. I'm currently trying to find someone to make a tuned 4 into 1 > exhaust system for the A model RVs. With the capability to reduce > your fuel consumption by .75 to 1 gallon per hour, a 4 into 1 tuned > exhaust is one of the best investments you can make in your RV. > Check out the CAFE Foundation's web site for more info. >Charlie > > >--> RV-List message posted by: "glen matejcek" > >Thanks, Charlie- > >glen matejcek >aerobubba@earthlink.net > > >Email Forum - > >http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List >- NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI - > >http://wiki.matronics.com >- List Contribution Web Site - >-Matt Dralle, List Admin. >http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:24:24 AM PST US From: Ron Lee Subject: Re: RV-List: sun shades --> RV-List message posted by: Ron Lee They seem to be called Suncutters now: http://www.auto-expressions.net/SunGlareReduction.pdf Ron Lee ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:27:26 AM PST US From: "Bill VonDane" Subject: Re: RV-List: sun shades --> RV-List message posted by: "Bill VonDane" I have those already... I want something more permanent (semi) do not archive ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 7:30 AM --> RV-List message posted by: Ron Lee Bill, come see the great one and I will show you what I use. It is a suction cup sunshade that I got at Pep Boys. It comes in a small folded up size (with pouch). The advantage over the Koger is that you can move it to different locations based upon sun direction and your flight path. Ron Lee ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:27:26 AM PST US From: "Dan Checkoway" Subject: Re: RV-List: sun shades --> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" http://www.autobarn.net/ac40712.html $5.99 for 2. I have 4 in the plane. 2 stay in my rear window (tip-up RV-7) all the time during summer. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D (966 hours) http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 6:30 AM > --> RV-List message posted by: Ron Lee > > Bill, come see the great one and I will show you what I use. > It is a suction cup sunshade that I got at Pep Boys. It comes > in a small folded up size (with pouch). > > The advantage over the Koger is that you can move it to different > locations based upon sun direction and your flight path. > > Ron Lee > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List > http://wiki.matronics.com > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:44:04 AM PST US From: "Ralph E. Capen" Subject: RV-List: Heater vent inlet up vs down --> RV-List message posted by: "Ralph E. Capen" Fellow listers, I'm getting ready to install my heater vents on the firewall. The way I read it, the instructions say 'inlet down'. This means that when you're not using the heater, the hot air is being blown up behind the engine instead of down towards the cowl exit area. Did I miss something? Does it matter? I would think inlet up.......Did they instruct it the other way for a reason? Pictures of how folks have already done it would be appreciated. Also, If you did it one way and didn't like it......why? Ralph Capen ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:56:21 AM PST US From: Chris W <3edcft6@cox.net> Subject: Re: RV-List: Fossil energy fuel to produce ethanol --> RV-List message posted by: Chris W <3edcft6@cox.net> RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote: > Quit worry about whether or not you fit into someone's label and start >worrying about building a gas guzzling airplane! Can we get back on >subject now. > > > RV planes aren't gas guzzlers! At 8000 ft on an economy cruise setting you get over 24 mpg (assuming no head wind) I would say that's pretty good. Fly at 10,000ft or 11,000ft and you get even better millage. That's better than I get in my Ford Ranger. It's only about 6 mpg away from what some call a high millage for cars. My 24 mpg figure was based on the range listed on Van's website for an RV-7 at 55% power with the 160 hp engine. do not archive. -- Chris W KE5GIX ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:32:41 AM PST US From: "Rick Galati" Subject: RV-List: Re: Cowl Louvers --> RV-List message posted by: "Rick Galati" Would anyone care to post a picture and the overall dimensions of the F10109 louver Van's carries? I purchased a pair of the side louvers from Race Ace http://www.raceace.com/productsside.html?x=33&y=7 and upon inspection, am having second thoughts about installing 'em before I become a little more familiar with Van's version. Thanks, Rick Galati RV-6A "Darla" 149 hours alexpeterson(at)earthlink wrote: > Van's has them. See LOUVER F-10109, I believe. > > Alex Peterson > RV6-A N66AP 761 hours > Maple Grove, MN > > > > > > > > > Greetings Listers,, > > > > Anyone know of a good source for stamped, aluminum cowl louvers? > > I am looking to increase the airflow though the cowl and was > > thinking of two louvers, placed on the bottom of the cowl, on > > either side of the inlet air scoop. > > > > Thanks,, > > > > > > > > > > Derrick L. Aubuchon > > RV-4: N184DA > > Jackson/Westover -Amador County (O70) > > n184da@volcano.net > > > > > Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=45213#45213 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 08:32:43 AM PST US From: "Charles Rowbotham" Subject: RE: RV-List: N161RL Flies --> RV-List message posted by: "Charles Rowbotham" Mannan, CONGRATULATIONS and WELL DONE !!!! Chuck & Dave Rowbotham RV-8 >From: "Mannan J. Thomason" >To: >Subject: RV-List: N161RL Flies >Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 10:13:29 -0400 > >After 4 1/2 years and after being asked "when is it going to fly?" and my >saying Thursday, about half a million times, N161RL flew Thurs.29 June. >She's an RV-8 slow build, IO-360-A3B6D, McCauley (ugh.) Prop, Sam James >Cowl. > >Mannan Thomason >RV-8 > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:42:13 AM PST US From: "dannylsmith" Subject: RV-List: Re: 4 into 1 exhaust --> RV-List message posted by: "dannylsmith" Aircraft Exhaust does not do RV exhausts anymore but Tom Heid at Aerospace Welding may. I sent him my engine type and sump info for him to give me an answer. I have a RV-7A with TMX IOF-360 with Forward facing ECI cold air sump but if enough people express an interest in 4 into 1 exhausts he may decide to do it. Tom Heid Aerospace Welding 952-890-1511 Hope this helps, Danny Smith -------- Danny Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=45219#45219 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 08:48:04 AM PST US From: rveighta Subject: RV-List: Gluing Canopy Skirt - RV-8 --> RV-List message posted by: rveighta I'm leaning towards gluing my canopy to the frame using Sikaflex as detailed in numerous posts on this list, but I'm not quite sure how to approach the issue of gluing the skirt on. It appears that Sikaflex would be ruled out due to the reqirement to have a 3/16" bead between the skirt and canopy/ frame. Someone in the archives mentioned using Scotch SemWeld. Any other suggestions, and what were the results of the SemWeld? Walt Shipley ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 09:00:28 AM PST US From: "BPA" Subject: RV-List: There is a guy in Colorado that builds quality exhausts as well. Contact info below. He has built several systems for some of our customers and will have a couple on display at OSH in our booth. We'll be in building C booth#3025. Come by and visit. Exhaust system contact: Forsling Exhausts John Forsling (303) 841-6054 forslingaviation@aol.com See you at OSH, Allen Barrett Barrett Precision Engines, Inc. www.barrettprecisionengines.com ________________________________ I've stopped 50,492 spam messages. You can too! One month FREE spam protection at www.cloudmark.com ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 09:36:57 AM PST US From: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" Subject: RE: RV-List: Gluing Canopy Skirt - RV-8 --> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" I glued mine. There is no reason why you could not get a bead in there. There is so little pressure on the canopy and skirt, the bead is of little consequence anyway IMHO. 250hours at speeds other RV-8's only dream about:) Best, Mike Do not archive -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rveighta Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 11:47 AM --> RV-List message posted by: rveighta I'm leaning towards gluing my canopy to the frame using Sikaflex as detailed in numerous posts on this list, but I'm not quite sure how to approach the issue of gluing the skirt on. It appears that Sikaflex would be ruled out due to the reqirement to have a 3/16" bead between the skirt and canopy/ frame. Someone in the archives mentioned using Scotch SemWeld. Any other suggestions, and what were the results of the SemWeld? Walt Shipley ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 09:52:44 AM PST US From: James H Nelson Subject: RV-List: Fossil energy fuel to produce ethanol --> RV-List message posted by: James H Nelson Terry, Well put, as the noise makers are beginning to take over the rational thinking individuals who just quietly go about their business. Some people think they know the answer but have not researched for the FACTS before they open their mouths. Nuff said--- Lets get back to building our little planes and have some fun. Jim Nelson do not archive ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 10:31:27 AM PST US From: "Larry Bowen" Subject: Re: RV-List: sun shades --> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" Have you seem those city busses with ads on the entire side of the bus, even the side windows? You can see though them from the inside, but from the outside they look almost opaque. I was going to look into getting some of that material, I guess it's vinyl, in black, maybe 10" wide, and putting it on the top of the canopy on the inside. It should be semi-permenant. Thoughts? -- Larry Bowen Larry@BowenAero.com http://BowenAero.com Bill VonDane wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: "Bill VonDane" > > I have those already... I want something more permanent (semi) > > do not archive > > > ----- Original Message ----- > Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 7:30 AM > > > --> RV-List message posted by: Ron Lee > > Bill, come see the great one and I will show you what I use. > It is a suction cup sunshade that I got at Pep Boys. It comes > in a small folded up size (with pouch). > > The advantage over the Koger is that you can move it to different > locations based upon sun direction and your flight path. > > Ron Lee > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 10:42:09 AM PST US From: James H Nelson Subject: RV-List: Oil fitting position --> RV-List message posted by: James H Nelson I'm installing the oil fittings for the oil cooler. The upper fitting is a 45 degree fitting and I need to know where it should point when installed. Down along side the mag (toward the center of the engine) or up and over the mag pointing toward the #4 cylinder. Jim Nelson ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 10:57:16 AM PST US From: "Richard Sipp" Subject: RV-List: Looking for Bob Hargraves Bob Hargraves: If you monitor this list, please reply to this message. Thanks Dick Sipp RV10 40065 do not archieve ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 11:47:09 AM PST US From: "Frank Stringham" Subject: RE: RV-List: Gluing Canopy Skirt - RV-8 --> RV-List message posted by: "Frank Stringham" Walt Like you I contemplated and just about went with the Sika canopy option. The more I read, the more I realized that there isn't alot of long term historical info on this product used in this application. Decide i didn't want to be trail blazer. I finally went with the tried and true Van's method. It was alot easier than I thought and came out great. Frank @ sgu and slc.......wiring...plus.......... >From: rveighta >To: "rv-list@matronics.com" >Subject: RV-List: Gluing Canopy Skirt - RV-8 >Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 11:46:36 -0400 (EDT) > >--> RV-List message posted by: rveighta > >I'm leaning towards gluing my canopy to the frame using Sikaflex as >detailed in numerous posts on this list, but I'm not quite sure how to >approach the issue of gluing the skirt on. > >It appears that Sikaflex would be ruled out due to the reqirement to >have a 3/16" bead between the skirt and canopy/ frame. Someone >in the archives mentioned using Scotch SemWeld. Any other suggestions, >and what were the results of the SemWeld? > >Walt Shipley > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 11:58:19 AM PST US From: Morocketman@aol.com Subject: RV-List: Need Help with Cowling Ducts John Goodman just finished and flew his beautiful RV-9/Suburu. His oil cooler is supplied by a 2 1/2" S.C.A.T. tube that begans in the left intake of the cowling. With the intake horizontal at the bottom of the intake, oil temps were at the very upper limit near 250F. After installing a 2 inch "temporary" 90 degree elbow (thanks to the Aviation Department at Lowe's), temps are acceptable at about 205F on 90F days here in Missouri. Does anyone have expertise in ducts in the left side of RV cowlings? Would a N.A.C.A. duct work installed at 45 degrees to the airstream on the forward underside of the cowl? Would a plain round duct work just as well? There is a guy in Dallas (?) whose RV-8 (?) has several ducts to cool his turbo chargers. The airplane has a nickname like "Greased Lightning"? Anyone know him or his experience with ducting? Please respond off list, or send me his phone number. Anyone know of a source of fiberglass ducts which would adapt well to the inside of an RV-9 cowling into a S.C.A.T. tube? Thanks everyone, Les Featherston 417-425-3595 ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 12:41:50 PM PST US From: "Frazier, Vincent A" Subject: RV-List: airplane items on Ebay I have several items on Ebay that might be useful to a homebuilt or other project: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1,1&item= 290 003266978&ih=019&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT mechanical fuel pump 4-6 psi, used, but working fine when removed and replaced with high pressure pump for my fuel injection http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1,1&item= 290 003264220&ih=019&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT fuel primer pump exc. cond. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1,1&item= 290 003276336&ih=019&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT heated pitot tube. exc. condition The URLs always end up on two lines.... paste them back together in your browser. Please don't send notes to the list saying "the URL doesn't work". They'll work. I have several other aviation items listed... Sikorsky rudder pedal assembly with bellcranks, pedals, etc (somewhat similar to an RV-6), Champ aileron, Stinson flap, Stinson LE slat, Ammco cylinder glaze breaking hone, etc All my listings end tomorrow. Anything that is left will go to the zoo (fly market tent) at Oshkosh. do not archive Vince ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 12:49:12 PM PST US From: "Tracy Crook" Subject: Re: RV-List: MOGAS Use >--> RV-List message posted by: Ron Lee > > >At 03:44 PM 7/4/2006, you wrote: >>Guys I have been running over four years and 500+ hours on a mix of >>25% 100LL, 75% 87 octane no-alcohol unleaded which I purchase from >>the local farm bureau. Never had any trouble, other than the >>stains it makes on the paint. No signs of detonation or elevated >>temperatures. Typically as a flatlander I rarely go above 7500ft >>and have flown many times where the OAT was 95 deg. F. At the >>moment my fuel costs are $31.98/hr, and if I go 100% 100LL its >>$40.00/hr, for a savings of $8.02/hour. (based on 10gph, 87 octane >>at $2.93/gal and 100LL at $4.00/gal.). I typically fly 10 hours a >>month, for a net savings of $80.20 a month, $962.40/year. It's >>worth the hassle! > > >So what happens at up to 17,500' ? > >Ron Lee I normally fly as close to 18,000 ft (I am VFR only) as sky, wx, and regulations allow. About the only point I agree with that Mr gmcjetpilot made is that fuel system & installation do matter. I have nothing more exotic in my plane than the 2004 RX-8 car that donated the engine (actually more like the 1986 RX-7) and it works fine on 87 octane auto fuel (and on one occasion up to 19,500, don't ask). I've said it before but it bears repeating: The typical aircraft engine fuel system is about the most vapor lock prone thing you could design. That is the reason for most of the auto fuel horror stories (IMO). As far as detonation on Lycomings is concerned, I have to defer to the experts that I've read. Won't rehash it here, but they tell me that 91 octane would work in most as-is (assuming a suitable fuel delivery system) and a system with knock sensor (yes, of course NOT an average auto knock sensor) or combustion pressure sensor would allow almost all the rest to work. The top of the line turbo and 10:1 CR models might have to be de-rated slightly. None of this should come as a surprise to those with any engine savvy. Yes, Mazda specifies Premium gas for the 10:1 CR RX-8 engine. It probably needs that to meet the 238 HP spec they advertise but it will happily run on 87 octane (due to the knock sensor equipped ECU bumping down the ignition timing) and actually gets better fuel economy on the cheap stuff (again for reasons that every gear head knows). I don't use a knock sensor or the original EFI controller in the plane so I back the timing off by 1.875 degrees (only at 29" Hg MAP or more) which eliminates any problems with detonation. And it is not heavier than an equivalent Lycoming. At 278 lbs installed it weighs the same as an 0 - 320 and puts out the same power as an angle valve IO - 360. Loud? It does need a muffler but according to my sound pressure measuring instrument it is no louder than most Lyc powered RV's. Prop noise is less too because prop speed is lower. Most every Mazda rotary installation (in aircraft) is unique at this point so YMMV. Ethanol: If it made sense and was cheaper, the government would not have to subsidize it. Even when subsidized, is gas cheaper when it is added? I don't know what could make the truth about it clearer. Someday some chap working in a biology lab will bio-engineer a microbe which will eat most anything and piss 200 proof moonshine. Ethanol will then have arrived as a viable fuel. I'm hoping that he makes it piss oil instead, it still takes almost twice as much alcohol to fly any given mission. Don't want to have to put 60 gallon tanks in my RV-4 and leave my beautiful bride behind. The point of my original rant on the subject was not to advocate auto or Mogas but to bitch about the bureaucracy that prevents easily implemented answers to the problems associated with 100LL (and about a million other things). It is a personal weakness that I try to resist but occasionally fail. Tracy Crook Rotary powered RV-4, 1600 hours of 87 octane Hmm... do not archive this drivel ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 01:17:56 PM PST US From: Ron Lee Subject: Re: RV-List: airplane items on Ebay Even better is to go to tinyurl.com and create a URL that is of a manageable length. Ron Lee Do not archive At 01:40 PM 7/6/2006, you wrote: >I have several items on Ebay that might be useful to a homebuilt or other >project: > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaym otors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1,1&item=290003266978&ih=019&sspage name=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT >mechanical fuel pump 4-6 psi, used, but working fine when removed and >replaced with high pressure pump for my fuel injection > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaym otors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1,1&item=290003264220&ih=019&sspage name=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT >fuel primer pump exc. cond. > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaym otors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1,1&item=290003276336&ih=019&sspage name=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT >heated pitot tube. exc. condition > >The URLs always end up on two lines=85. paste them back together in your >browser. Please don't send notes to the list saying "the URL doesn't >work". They'll work. > >I have several other aviation items listed=85 Sikorsky rudder pedal assembly >with bellcranks, pedals, etc (somewhat similar to an RV-6), Champ aileron, >Stinson flap, Stinson LE slat, Ammco cylinder glaze breaking hone, etc > >All my listings end tomorrow. Anything that is left will go to the zoo >(fly market tent) at Oshkosh. > >do not archive > >Vince ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 01:24:57 PM PST US From: Paul Besing Subject: Re: RV-List: airplane items on Ebay --> RV-List message posted by: Paul Besing You can truncate Ebay URLs right after the item number like this: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1,1&item=290003276336 And it will still work. Paul Besing Do not archive --- "Frazier, Vincent A" wrote: > > I have several items on Ebay that might be useful to > a homebuilt or > other project: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1,1&item=290 > 003266978&ih=019&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT > mechanical fuel pump 4-6 > psi, used, but working fine when removed and > replaced with high pressure > pump for my fuel injection > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1,1&item=290 > 003264220&ih=019&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT fuel > primer pump exc. > cond. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1,1&item=290 > 003276336&ih=019&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT heated > pitot tube. exc. > condition > > The URLs always end up on two lines.... paste them > back together in your > browser. Please don't send notes to the list saying > "the URL doesn't > work". They'll work. > > I have several other aviation items listed... > Sikorsky rudder pedal > assembly with bellcranks, pedals, etc (somewhat > similar to an RV-6), > Champ aileron, Stinson flap, Stinson LE slat, Ammco > cylinder glaze > breaking hone, etc > > All my listings end tomorrow. Anything that is left > will go to the zoo > (fly market tent) at Oshkosh. > > do not archive > > Vince > __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 02:09:47 PM PST US From: "Tracy Crook" Subject: Re: RV-List:Fuel economy / was Fossil energy fuel..... RV planes aren't gas guzzlers! At 8000 ft on an economy cruise setting you get over 24 mpg (assuming no head wind) I would say that's pretty good. Fly at 10,000ft or 11,000ft and you get even better millage. That's better than I get in my Ford Ranger. It's only about 6 mpg away from what some call a high millage for cars. My 24 mpg figure was based on the range listed on Van's website for an RV-7 at 55% power with the 160 hp engine. do not archive. Chris W KE5GIX Good data point, I hadn't read that on Van's site. I typically fly higher than 8000 feet, and since I've always been an efficiency freak, my engine monitor has a readout directly in MPG (based on TAS and fuel flow). I spend a lot of time tweaking & tuning to eke out that last possible .1 mpg on those long cross countries. At 15,500 I can do a little better than 30 MPG at 175 mph TAS. Anyone else into fuel efficiency? I'd love to hear your numbers. I honestly don't know how the rotary engine compares to a Lyc when flown for max efficiency. But I suspect it isn't much different. While I have always been into energy efficiency, I have grown weary of the painfully stupid mass media debate on the subject. Many of the same folks who demand better fuel economy standards are often the same ones to decry small cars as dangerous. Now I intend to use all the fuel I want while dreading the day someone decides that private aviation is too much of a security risk. Tracy Crook (Wacko of many types) ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 03:03:39 PM PST US From: "Dan Checkoway" Subject: Re: RV-List:Fuel economy / was Fossil energy fuel..... Tracy, you might get a kick out of this: http://www.rvproject.com/20060419.html )_( Dan RV-7 N714D (967 hours) http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Tracy Crook To: rv-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 2:04 PM Subject: Re: RV-List:Fuel economy / was Fossil energy fuel..... RV planes aren't gas guzzlers! At 8000 ft on an economy cruise setting you get over 24 mpg (assuming no head wind) I would say that's pretty good. Fly at 10,000ft or 11,000ft and you get even better millage. That's better than I get in my Ford Ranger. It's only about 6 mpg away from what some call a high millage for cars. My 24 mpg figure was based on the range listed on Van's website for an RV-7 at 55% power with the 160 hp engine. do not archive. Chris W KE5GIX Good data point, I hadn't read that on Van's site. I typically fly higher than 8000 feet, and since I've always been an efficiency freak, my engine monitor has a readout directly in MPG (based on TAS and fuel flow). I spend a lot of time tweaking & tuning to eke out that last possible .1 mpg on those long cross countries. At 15,500 I can do a little better than 30 MPG at 175 mph TAS. Anyone else into fuel efficiency? I'd love to hear your numbers. I honestly don't know how the rotary engine compares to a Lyc when flown for max efficiency. But I suspect it isn't much different. While I have always been into energy efficiency, I have grown weary of the painfully stupid mass media debate on the subject. Many of the same folks who demand better fuel economy standards are often the same ones to decry small cars as dangerous. Now I intend to use all the fuel I want while dreading the day someone decides that private aviation is too much of a security risk. Tracy Crook (Wacko of many types) ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 03:14:27 PM PST US From: John Huft Subject: Re: RV-List: Gluing Canopy Skirt - RV-8 --> RV-List message posted by: John Huft Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta) wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" > > I glued mine. There is no reason why you could not get a bead in there. > There is so little pressure on the canopy and skirt, the bead is of > little consequence anyway IMHO. 250hours at speeds other RV-8's only > dream about:) > > Best, > Mike > Do not archive > > Well, Mike, I'm not sure WHO is dreaming...why don't you show for one of the races and give us a demo? John ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 03:27:46 PM PST US From: "Ed Bundy" Subject: RE: RV-List:Fuel economy / was Fossil energy fuel..... I've always been an efficiency nut as well. I fly all cross countries at what I consider the "sweet spot" altitudes of 11,500/12,500'. At 8000' I get 183mphtas on 8.25gph or 22mpg. 11,500' gives 178tas on 7gph for 25+mpg, and 13,500' rewards me with 171tas on 6gph for 28.5mpg. Above 15000' the efficiency starts to drop off as my 160hp Lycoming can't keep the airplane "on the step" and the reduction in TAS is greater than the reduction in fuel burn. Most people scoff at giving up 5mph, but saving 1.25gph has always been worth it to me, even back when 100LL was <$2 a gallon. Ed Bundy I typically fly higher than 8000 feet, and since I've always been an efficiency freak, my engine monitor has a readout directly in MPG (based on TAS and fuel flow). I spend a lot of time tweaking & tuning to eke out that last possible .1 mpg on those long cross countries. At 15,500 I can do a little better than 30 MPG at 175 mph TAS. Anyone else into fuel efficiency? I'd love to hear your numbers. I honestly don't know how the rotary engine compares to a Lyc when flown for max efficiency. But I suspect it isn't much different. Tracy Crook (Wacko of many types) ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 04:23:21 PM PST US From: "Jim Jewell" Subject: Re: RV-List: sun shades --> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" Hi Larry, Some time ago someone posted saying that they had attached some form of dark cling like material. They described damage to the canopy due to direct sunlight heating the film and subsequently the canopy. The canopy warped and sagged if I am remembering correctly. I decided not to try the above kind of approach based on the report. I had originally planned on using a similar product that has worked very well for many years in my pickup. I have and will use the foldable suction cup type screens. Jim in Kelowna ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 10:29 AM > --> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" > > Have you seem those city busses with ads on the entire side of the bus, > even the side windows? You can see though them from the inside, but from > the outside they look almost opaque. I was going to look into getting > some of that material, I guess it's vinyl, in black, maybe 10" wide, and > putting it on the top of the canopy on the inside. It should be > semi-permenant. Thoughts? > > -- > Larry Bowen > Larry@BowenAero.com > http://BowenAero.com > > Bill VonDane wrote: >> --> RV-List message posted by: "Bill VonDane" >> >> I have those already... I want something more permanent (semi) >> >> do not archive >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 7:30 AM >> >> >> --> RV-List message posted by: Ron Lee >> >> Bill, come see the great one and I will show you what I use. >> It is a suction cup sunshade that I got at Pep Boys. It comes >> in a small folded up size (with pouch). >> >> The advantage over the Koger is that you can move it to different >> locations based upon sun direction and your flight path. >> >> Ron Lee >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 05:00:05 PM PST US From: "c.ennis" Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Fossil energy fuel to produce ethanol --> RV-List message posted by: "c.ennis" Bryan, Let me say, I agree with you...I work for a manufacturing facility which employs an environmental engineer, a real one with a degree ;}. He and I have had several discussions about this very subject. His take is, an environmental engineer, knows but doesn't care, while an environmentalist, cares but doesn't know. A bit tongue in cheek but a good point, all the same. Everyone has opinions and "feelings" about the environment. The emotional among us "feel" that someone should be doing something about it, generally based, on as you say JUNK, science. I like to think, key word think, as opposed to feel, that based on my limited education on the subject, that we may be into a natural warming cycle which we can not possibly have any control over. Sure we could go back to the horse and buggy days on the slim chance the wackos are right. I have grown really fond of the modern lifestyle. I have been living with electricity, furnaces, plastics, hot-running water and the ability to travel over 30 miles on any given day...the list goes on and on. Maybe we could be selective as to what we would be willing to give up. Wouldn't that make for an interesting discussion on the beltway. Yes sir, we could all go back to the pre-petroleum days, that would be around 1885 or so...hold it, every one would have to live within walking distance of work, farming, logging or manufacturing in the urban areas. Yes sir a whole economy based on WOOD for an energy source. Seems to me that we have a little trouble in that area too. By the way a very large part of our population depends on the automotive/patroleum industry for their livelyhood, perhaps they would be willing to throw themselves on their swords in order to reduce our population numbers to a more convenient level? OK, so we are doomed to be living on a slowly dying planet, it seems to me, that, all things considered, nature functions in a life and death cycle. Get used to it. If we could function on solar energy alone, we would still eventually cease to exist. It seems the sun is consuming itself also. Meanwhile, back in realityville, why don't we all continue to breed (our sole purpose for being alive) and continue to enjoy the things we have created for our comfort and convinence for the rest of the time nature lets us. Really sorry about the rant, guys, occasionally I find myself boiling over on this subject. Charlie RV-6A 60 hrs. since first flight. Pls. Do Not Archive ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2006 9:37 PM > --> RV-List message posted by: "low pass" > > The whole pop-culture enviro movement is based upon an mostly JUNK > science. Global warming, my eye! What caused the previous warming cycles > of the last million years? Dinosaur flatulence? So we need to reduce > dependence upon foreign oil? How about opening up coastal exploration?! > It's too destructive for the US to drill off the Florida coast, but not > for Cuba and China to drill there. > > I'm an engineer. A real one with a degree, a license and experience in > petroleum refining. If you enviros really want to get off petroleum, then > you'll have to wait about 10-20 years while we BUILD about 200 NUCLEAR > POWER PLANTS!!! But we can't do that because it's such an evil danger!! > You know - like the world ending with all the "Three Mile Islands" that > were destined to end the world. > > So now our existing gasoline production is further bastardized with this > foolish ethanol fantasy. You want to know why gasoline costs $3.15 a > gallon? In part due to ethanol, part due to the illogical and inane > efforts of the EPA and their 50+ formulations of gasoline mandated across > the US. > > I'm also a naturalist. I like trees, clean water, air, birds and fish. > But there's a big difference between a naturalist and an enviro whacko. > It's called logic and science, and a lot less Algore hype-fiction. > > So why do the enviros want to prohibit use of petroleum through restricted > drilling, restricted refining, displacement with ethanol? Read plank 6 of > the Communist Manifesto. > > Bryan Jones > Houston > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=45095#45095 > > > ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 05:05:17 PM PST US From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" Subject: RE: RV-List: Fossil energy fuel to produce ethanol --> RV-List message posted by: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" Actually, for the RV-10 with the Lycoming 540 you are looking at something in the neighborhood of 16MPG at economy cruise. Not a guzzler but not great either. Of course if you want to get somewhere with the throttle firewalled you drop to about 7MPG. Besides, I never said RV. :) Michael Sausen -10 #352 Fuselage -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris W Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 9:55 AM --> RV-List message posted by: Chris W <3edcft6@cox.net> RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote: > Quit worry about whether or not you fit into someone's label and >start worrying about building a gas guzzling airplane! Can we get back >on subject now. > > > RV planes aren't gas guzzlers! At 8000 ft on an economy cruise setting you get over 24 mpg (assuming no head wind) I would say that's pretty good. Fly at 10,000ft or 11,000ft and you get even better millage. That's better than I get in my Ford Ranger. It's only about 6 mpg away from what some call a high millage for cars. My 24 mpg figure was based on the range listed on Van's website for an RV-7 at 55% power with the 160 hp engine. do not archive. -- Chris W KE5GIX ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 05:59:15 PM PST US From: James H Nelson Subject: RV-List: Oil fittings on the case --> RV-List message posted by: James H Nelson I am doing this again as I think I failed to get the message through before. I am installing the oil fittings in the case for the oil cooler. The straight fitting goes in around the center of the accessory case. The return fitting goes in just above the right mag and just behind the oil filter. This fitting is a 45 degree unit and I need to know where to point the fitting. Does it point downward toward the center of the engine between the oil filter and right mag or out over the mag toward the #4 cylinder ? Inquiring minds want to know! Jim Nelson ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 07:01:13 PM PST US From: "Terry Watson" Subject: RE: RV-List: Oil fittings on the case --> RV-List message posted by: "Terry Watson" Jim, On my Superior XP-I0-360 B1B (180 hp) the 45 degree fitting is rotated so it points down maybe 20 degrees from horizontal so the hose clears the oil filter. Terry RV-8A Seattle -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of James H Nelson Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 5:54 PM --> RV-List message posted by: James H Nelson I am doing this again as I think I failed to get the message through before. I am installing the oil fittings in the case for the oil cooler. The straight fitting goes in around the center of the accessory case. The return fitting goes in just above the right mag and just behind the oil filter. This fitting is a 45 degree unit and I need to know where to point the fitting. Does it point downward toward the center of the engine between the oil filter and right mag or out over the mag toward the #4 cylinder ? Inquiring minds want to know! Jim Nelson ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 07:04:03 PM PST US From: "D.Bristol" Subject: Re: RV-List: Oil fittings on the case Mine points toward the #4 cylinder but it kind of depends on just where your oil cooler is going to be hung. I think I'd wait until you install the cooler and hoses before picking a final orientation for the fitting. Dave James H Nelson wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: James H Nelson > >I am doing this again as I think I failed to get the message through >before. I am installing the oil fittings in the case for the oil cooler. > The straight fitting goes in around the center of the accessory case. >The return fitting goes in just above the right mag and just behind the >oil filter. This fitting is a 45 degree unit and I need to know where to >point the fitting. Does it point downward toward the center of the >engine between the oil filter and right mag or out over the mag toward >the #4 cylinder ? Inquiring minds want to know! > >Jim Nelson > > > > > > > > >