---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 07/31/06: 35 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:03 AM - Re: TBM Avenger / RV-6 accident at OSH (Mitchell Faatz) 2. 07:19 AM - Re: Elevator TE Problem (Folbrecht, Paul) 3. 07:19 AM - Re: TBM Avenger / RV-6 accident at OSH (czechsix@juno.com) 4. 07:19 AM - Re: Air Oil Separators (rveighta) 5. 08:02 AM - Re: Air Oil Separators (D.Bristol) 6. 09:24 AM - Oil temp limits (Charles Heathco) 7. 09:33 AM - Further thread on airborne weather services! (Morocketman@aol.com) 8. 09:48 AM - Re: Further thread on airborne weather services! (sportav8r@aol.com) 9. 09:49 AM - Who from MT was at OSH (Ralph E. Capen) 10. 10:22 AM - Re: Further thread on airborne weather services! (Ed Anderson) 11. 10:39 AM - Re: Oil temp limits (RVer273sb@aol.com) 12. 11:23 AM - Mid time 0-235 for sale (Moore, Warren) 13. 11:31 AM - Rear Prop Gov. Questions (Hopperdhh@aol.com) 14. 11:58 AM - RV 10 Mike Seager training at (1m5) (John McMahon) 15. 12:01 PM - TBM Avenger/RV-6 accident at OSH and other OSH stuff (Michael) 16. 12:19 PM - oil cooler and vernatherm (Erich_Weaver@URSCorp.com) 17. 12:22 PM - Re: Oil temp limits (FLYaDIVE@aol.com) 18. 12:27 PM - Re: Oil temp limits (FLYaDIVE@aol.com) 19. 01:38 PM - Re: Further thread on airborne weather services! (Morocketman@aol.com) 20. 01:38 PM - Re: Oil temp limits (Kevin Horton) 21. 01:55 PM - Re: TBM Avenger/RV-6 accident at OSH and other OSH stuff (Rob Prior (rv7)) 22. 03:49 PM - Re: Recommendations for Iridium plugs? (Charles Heathco) 23. 04:32 PM - Re: oil cooler and vernatherm (Mike Kraus) 24. 04:39 PM - Re: Further thread on airborne weather services! (Mike Kraus) 25. 05:15 PM - Re: Rear Prop Gov. Questions (Dale Ensing) 26. 05:15 PM - Matronics Email List Web Server Upgrade Tonight... (Matt Dralle) 27. 05:48 PM - Re: oil cooler and vernatherm (D.Bristol) 28. 05:58 PM - Looking for Reports on new David Clark X-11 Headset (tcolson) 29. 05:58 PM - Small mirrow (John McMahon) 30. 06:19 PM - Re: Small mirrow (James Freeman) 31. 06:49 PM - Re: Landing Gear (MLWynn@aol.com) 32. 06:53 PM - Re: Small mirrow (RV6 Flyer) 33. 07:05 PM - Re: Stuff For Sale (Mike Kraus) 34. 07:08 PM - Re: Further thread on airborne weather services! (Larry Bowen) 35. 07:47 PM - Re: Air Oil Separators (JOHN STARN) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:03:18 AM PST US From: Mitchell Faatz Subject: Re: RV-List: TBM Avenger / RV-6 accident at OSH --> RV-List message posted by: Mitchell Faatz Amazingly, one report said the pilot was unharmed but the passenger (a 63 year old man from Canada) was killed. http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/1110AP_Airshow_Fatality.html?source=mypi do not archive ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:19:04 AM PST US From: "Folbrecht, Paul" Subject: Re: RV-List: Elevator TE Problem --> RV-List message posted by: "Folbrecht, Paul" Jerry & Dennis, I did make it to OSH on Saturday (I'm in Milwaukee and would have gone the whole week if I could have), and talked to Van's, who recommended leaving it as is. I looked at the 9A demonstrator... and sure enuf the TE wedge on the elevators protrudes 1/16" or so just like mine. So that's what I did. Time: 07:46:31 AM PST US --> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer Folbrecht, Paul wrote: > I sent this to Vans yesterday and then realized that they, along with > everyone else in the world and everyone elses brother, is up at OSH > this week. > > Hello, > > 9A builder #1176 here. Starting TE on right elevator. The stiffeners > prevent the TE from going in all the way it sticks out about 1/16 > past the skins. Options: > > 1) Trim the stiffeners. Since theyre (obviously) installed, I cant see > how I can realistically do this without damaging the skin. > > 2) Install the TE wedge sticking out 1/16 and leave it like that. > There would be enough room from the rivets to the LE of the wedge for > structural soundness. > > 3) Install the TE wedge as-is and file/trim it afterwards. > > None of these options is terribly inviting. Which is the best? > I don't know how close to the end of the stiffeners the rivets are, but in some cases you can slip a thin strip of alum. between the stiffener and the skin to protect the skin and use a die grinder or dremel tool to cut the ends of the stiffeners off. Jerry do not archive ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:55:22 AM PST US --> RV-List message posted by: "Glaeser, Dennis A" --> I had a similar problem on my 7A rudder, only at the other end (stiffeners interfered with the spar). I slipped a thin piece of aluminum between the skin and the stiffener and used my dremel tool with a cutoff wheel - very carefully!! A fourth option is to trim the TE wedge locally to clear the stiffeners - mark the locations and 'deburr' away the TE wedge with your scotchbright wheel to clear the stiffeners. Dennis Glaeser 7A - Finishing Kit ------------------------------------------------------------------- 9A builder #1176 here. Starting TE on right elevator. The stiffeners prevent the TE from going in all the way - it sticks out about 1/16" past the skins. Options: 1) Trim the stiffeners. Since they're (obviously) installed, I can't see how I can realistically do this without damaging the skin. 2) Install the TE wedge sticking out 1/16" and leave it like that. There would be enough room from the rivets to the LE of the wedge for structural soundness. 3) Install the TE wedge as-is and file/ ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:19:04 AM PST US From: "czechsix@juno.com" Subject: RV-List: RE: TBM Avenger / RV-6 accident at OSH Ok, I see the news story that the pax was killed and the pilot survived. I hate spreading misinformation so I apologize for not getting the fact s straight....I'm also amazed that anyone in that cockpit could have sur vived the accident! We were watching from the passenger's side of the R V at a slight angle when it happened, after the loud noises stopped the prop was in the cockpit area and the canopy was gone....and I couldn't s ee anybody at all in the cockpit. We watched for a few minutes and I did n't see anybody get out. When the rescue crew arrived, they took a look inside and then backed everybody away and appeared to be covering it up with white sheets when we left the scene (remember I had a 5 year old wi th me so we didn't stick around for a long time...). So what I saw seeme d to confirm that there was no possibility of survivors. Anyway, very glad the pilot miraculously escaped and next time I'll chec k the news before posting something of serious nature like this... --Mark Navratil Cedar Rapids, Iowa RV-8A N2D

Ok, I see the news story that the pax was killed and the pilot surviv ed. I hate spreading misinformation so I apologize for not getting the f acts straight....I'm also amazed that anyone in that cockpit could have survived the accident!  We were watching from the passenger's side of the RV at a slight angle when it happened, after the loud noises stop ped the prop was in the cockpit area and the canopy was gone....and I co uldn't see anybody at all in the cockpit. We watched for a few minutes a nd I didn't see anybody get out. When the rescue crew arrived, they took a look inside and then backed everybody away and appeared to be&nb sp;covering it up with white sheets when we left the scene (remember I h ad a 5 year old with me so we didn't stick around for a long time...). S o what I saw seemed to confirm that there was no possibility of survivor s.

Anyway, very glad the pilot miraculously escaped and next time I'll c heck the news before posting something of serious nature like this...

--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D

 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:19:57 AM PST US From: rveighta Subject: Re: RV-List: Air Oil Separators --- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found --- A message with no text/plain MIME section was received. The entire body of the message was removed. Please resend the email using Plain Text formatting. HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section in their client's default configuration. If you're using HOTMAIL, please see your email application's settings and switch to a default mail option that uses "Plain Text". --- MIME Errors No Plain-Text Section Found --- ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:02:32 AM PST US From: "D.Bristol" Subject: Re: RV-List: Air Oil Separators The oil might not be coming from the vent. It doesn't take a very big leak to make a real mess. Dave Paul Besing wrote: > I'm not convinced on these things...not sure if the one on my > purchased RV-4 is clogged or what, but the belly get's just as dirty > in 4 flights than it would without one. I've got a return going into > the crank case, and and exit going out by the exaust, and am getting > ALOT of oil on the belly after 8-10 hours if I don't clean it regularly. > > Again, it may be clogged or something, but unfortunately there is no > way to take it apart and see. > > Paul Besing > > > lucky wrote: > > Any make/model preference on these things? I was surprised to see > such a wide range of options in the ACS catalogue. I don't know > anyone who is actally using one so this one goes out to the list. > > Anyone using the "experimental" $45 round one? I found none on > ebay for airplanes. I thought this would be an easy salvage item > to find. > > For those that are routing the oil back into the engine, are you > modifying the dip stick housing to accept a return hose? > > thx, > lucky > do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:24:12 AM PST US From: "Charles Heathco" Subject: RV-List: Oil temp limits I have noticed my newer engine is running hotter oil temp than the older one. Used to be 190-200 max. now its going up to 220-230. Anyone can say for sure what max norm opr and also max safe temp should be? Charlie Heathco ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:33:29 AM PST US From: Morocketman@aol.com Subject: RV-List: Further thread on airborne weather services! Has anyone tried a CELL PHONE weather system with success or failure? Primarily due to limited cockpit space, I am considering buying a new cell phone with a larger than average screen and using Velcro to attach it to the panel. Do you like/dislike your weather on the cell phone? Whose service do you have/have tried in the past? What problems does anyone see with it? i.e. Is it illegal to use cell phone in an airplane? What were the costs involved? Connection fee? Monthly service? Additional minutes, etc? Thanks listers, you are a walking encyclopedia of knowledge, Les Featherston ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:48:04 AM PST US From: sportav8r@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Further thread on airborne weather services! Les, first try using your cell phone for voice or text from the plane. It can be a frustrating excercise unless you're down low. You'll want to experiment before spending the bucks, unless getting wx only before departure is what you're after. That said, I was able to make several phone calls from the air this weekend, checking out the aux feature of my new LightSpeed Mach one headset (worked beautifully) but I was only at about 1500' AGL at the time. As to cellular or in-cockpit wx services, never used them yet so cannot comment intelligently. Hope this helps. -----Original Message----- Sent: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 12:32 PM Has anyone tried a CELL PHONE weather system with success or failure? Primarily due to limited cockpit space, I am considering buying a new cell phone with a larger than average screen and using Velcro to attach it to the panel. Do you like/dislike your weather on the cell phone? Whose service do you have/have tried in the past? What problems does anyone see with it? i.e. Is it illegal to use cell phone in an airplane? What were the costs involved? Connection fee? Monthly service? Additional minutes, etc? Thanks listers, you are a walking encyclopedia of knowledge, Les Featherston ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:49:23 AM PST US From: "Ralph E. Capen" Subject: RV-List: Who from MT was at OSH --> RV-List message posted by: "Ralph E. Capen" Just lookig to find out who from MT was there. I'm expecting my prop back from MT in FL - getting the correct length hub/spinner to fit my SamJames cowl. Ralph Capen ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:22:46 AM PST US From: "Ed Anderson" Subject: Re: RV-List: Further thread on airborne weather services! I have used Ram-Page Cell phone weather service http://avwx.net/home.php. It only cost around $7.00/month at the time, I think for the price it was a great service. Having said that, it could be frustratingly slow in downloading radar/satellite photos. I tried to use it once airborne, but was at 7500 ft over west central Texas where cell towers are not plentiful. I did use it to check weather when landing at air patches with no computer connections. Ed Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW ----- Original Message ----- From: Morocketman@aol.com To: rv-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 12:32 PM Subject: RV-List: Further thread on airborne weather services! Has anyone tried a CELL PHONE weather system with success or failure? Primarily due to limited cockpit space, I am considering buying a new cell phone with a larger than average screen and using Velcro to attach it to the panel. Do you like/dislike your weather on the cell phone? Whose service do you have/have tried in the past? What problems does anyone see with it? i.e. Is it illegal to use cell phone in an airplane? What were the costs involved? Connection fee? Monthly service? Additional minutes, etc? Thanks listers, you are a walking encyclopedia of knowledge, Les Featherston ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:39:40 AM PST US From: RVer273sb@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Oil temp limits Lycoming says 240 degrees max.. Lee RV 4 do not archive ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:23:43 AM PST US From: "Moore, Warren" Subject: RV-List: Mid time 0-235 for sale My hanger buddy is parting out a varieze and will be looking to sell a mid time Lycoming 0-235, 1200 since new, and he has all the log books. Located at Cable airport, Upland California. If interested contact me off the list via email or 310-251-2743. Do not archive thanks, Warren Moore, RV4 223WM. eJ8+IiESAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQWAAwAOAAAA1gcHAB8ACwAVAB8AAQBDAQEggAMADgAAANYHBwAf AAsAFQAfAAEAQwEBCYABACEAAAAyNzhGREUxNjQzRUQ4RTQxQTQ3NTE2RjlFRUNENzEwMABJBwEE gAEAGAAAAE1pZCB0aW1lIDAtMjM1IGZvciBzYWxlACwHAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEDkAYAJAcAADAA AAADAFuACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAABShQAAJ2oBAB4AXIAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAA AFSFAAABAAAABAAAADkuMAALAICACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAAGhQAAAAAAAAMADoAIIAYA AAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAAGFAAAAAAAACwAQgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAA4UAAAAAAAAL ABGACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAAOhQAAAAAAAAMAN4AIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABCF AAAAAAAAAwA4gAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAEYUAAAAAAAADAD6ACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAA RgAAAAAYhQAAAAAAAB4AS4AIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAADaFAAABAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAeAEyA CCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAA3hQAAAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAAHgBNgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYA AAAAOIUAAAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAAIBCRABAAAAkgEAAI4BAACzAQAATFpGdfmo1ocDAAoAcmNwZzEy NRYyAPgLYG4OEDAzM08B9wKkA+MCAGNoCsBzsGV0MCAHEwKAfQqBknYIkHdrC4BkNAxgnmMAUAsD C7UF0HkgEPCDDyAEkCBidWRkE+CVBAAgCrF0C4BnIAhgMQVAYSB2CsAIkHplqxWwEoAgA/BsAyBi FkCNCQBvEmEVYHRvIBEgcxbBFcBtaRaAFTAHgCA4IEx5BaAYQBVRMC2gMjM1LCAOIDARUOkAkG5j FkBuB9AZwBZivmgWQBDwBCAHQAMgdBshTwkAFWAG4BdAcy4YwW+4Y2F0CYAVsAVAQwGgYmwWQWly cAkRGcBVdwtRFnEdgGwGkAWwAwBh+RyhSWYUwAIwBJAHkB0S3wWgAjAA0AVAGKFvASAbxO8EAAVA EiAVwGUAwAMRBbEmMw9AGYA1MRmANzSSMxyhIEQXsG5vFaHichDgaXZlCqIKhAqA7xvQAHAcgBnA VwrACXADoA5NFzAJcBnAUlY0IGIyGZBXTS4kxBHhAAEoIAAAHgBwAAEAAAAYAAAATWlkIHRpbWUg MC0yMzUgZm9yIHNhbGUAAgFxAAEAAAAWAAAAAca0zmhxbzHCJiCGEduMFAAC4wli9gAAAwAmAAAA AAADADYAAAAAAAsAAgABAAAAAwAJWQMAAAADAN4/r28AAEAAOQAQC7olzrTGAQMA8T8JBAAAHgAx QAEAAAANAAAAV0FSUkVOIE1PT1JFAAAAAAMAGkAAAAAAHgAwQAEAAAANAAAAV0FSUkVOIE1PT1JF AAAAAAMAGUAAAAAAAwD9P+QEAAADAIAQ/////wIBRwABAAAANQAAAGM9VVM7YT0gO3A9VGlkZWxh bmRzIE9pbDtsPUxPQ1VUVVMtMDYwNzMxMTgyMTMxWi01MjYAAAAAAgH5PwEAAABUAAAAAAAAANyn QMjAQhAatLkIACsv4YIBAAAAAAAAAC9PPVRJREVMQU5EUyBPSUwvT1U9TkVYVVMvQ049UkVDSVBJ RU5UUy9DTj1XQVJSRU4gTU9PUkUAHgD4PwEAAAAOAAAATW9vcmUsIFdhcnJlbgAAAB4AOEABAAAA DQAAAFdBUlJFTiBNT09SRQAAAAACAfs/AQAAAFQAAAAAAAAA3KdAyMBCEBq0uQgAKy/hggEAAAAA AAAAL089VElERUxBTkRTIE9JTC9PVT1ORVhVUy9DTj1SRUNJUElFTlRTL0NOPVdBUlJFTiBNT09S RQAeAPo/AQAAAA4AAABNb29yZSwgV2FycmVuAAAAHgA5QAEAAAANAAAAV0FSUkVOIE1PT1JFAAAA AEAABzDQuk6ezbTGAUAACDDwVt0lzrTGAR4APQABAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAeAB0OAQAAABgAAABNaWQg dGltZSAwLTIzNSBmb3Igc2FsZQAeADUQAQAAAEIAAAA8QTFGMkI5MEM2MkY0RDMxMUJCMTgwMDUw OEI4QkZDMUMxNzNBRTJAbG9jdXR1cy50aWRlbGFuZHNvaWwuY29tPgAAAAsAKQAAAAAACwAjAAAA AAADAAYQFDanuQMABxDyAAAAAwAQEAAAAAADABEQAQAAAB4ACBABAAAAZQAAAE1ZSEFOR0VSQlVE RFlJU1BBUlRJTkdPVVRBVkFSSUVaRUFORFdJTExCRUxPT0tJTkdUT1NFTExBTUlEVElNRUxZQ09N SU5HMC0yMzUsMTIwMFNJTkNFTkVXLEFOREhFSEFTQUwAAAAAAgF/AAEAAABCAAAAPEExRjJCOTBD NjJGNEQzMTFCQjE4MDA1MDhCOEJGQzFDMTczQUUyQGxvY3V0dXMudGlkZWxhbmRzb2lsLmNvbT4A AABKcA= ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 11:31:44 AM PST US From: Hopperdhh@aol.com Subject: RV-List: Rear Prop Gov. Questions I posted this last week, but didn't get answers. Maybe someone on the list could point me to a picture of a rear mounted prop governor so I could get a feel for how much room there is. Probably an O-360 would be the same. Thanks, Dan I searched the archives, but couldn't find answers to these questions. I am thinking of putting an IO-360-A1A engine in my RV-7A. It has been flying with an IO-360-A1D6 which has a front mounted governor. Could someone on the list please tell me approximately what the thickness of the rear mounted prop governor adapter pad is on an IO-360-A1A? I have an old one that measures about 2 1/16 inches. Is there a thinner one available? The dimension I need is from the accessory case to the prop governor itself. Also, will the McCauley governor off the left front of my IO-360-A1D6 work on the rear of the -A1A? There is about 3 percent difference in the drive ratio -- 0.866 vs 0.895. I would assume that the governor could be adjusted for this difference. Is there some other reason why it won't work? Thanks, Dan Hopper RV-7A ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 11:58:38 AM PST US From: "John McMahon" Subject: RV-List: RV 10 Mike Seager training at (1m5) Mike Saeger will be in Portland,Tn (1M5) 50 miles north of Nashville,Tn Sept 13,14,15..He will be giving flight training in the factory RV-10..The cost is $155.00 per Hr.If you are interested in flying with Mike, please E-Mail me at (rv6@earthlink.net) or call me at 615-452-8742..When I get a feel for who is interested I will set up a schedule to accommodate you..First come first serve!! There is a Motel in Franklin,Ky $98.00 nite,270-598-8001 Hampton Inn.. John McMahon (RV6 180/CS) Flying Gallatin,Tn ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 12:01:36 PM PST US From: "Michael" Subject: RV-List: TBM Avenger/RV-6 accident at OSH and other OSH stuff --> RV-List message posted by: "Michael" >I'm reluctant to post this but feel like I need to share it in hopes it never happens again........... Man, this was definitely in the "could have happened to me" category, from the cockpit of BOTH aircraft. I had a T-18 homebuilt behind me. Red with orange stripes. Ask me how I know (see below). Now: what do we learn from this. Yes, be vigilant, but you can't see and predict everything. Who would have thought the TBM pilot would not have been REALLY vigilant when taxiing around with smaller airplanes everywhere (you can't see squat from the front seat of a TBM). The RV pilot should have been vigilant as to where the huge aircraft behind him was (you can see squat from an RV, however). NOT to place blame on ANYONE; you just can't see everything all the time. S-turning helps you see most everything, but obviously, not everything. Spacing while taxiing can be variable at any airport. Some who saw this happen said there were three RV's in a row and the TBM pilot may have lost count of how many there were. Who knows; I was not there. Lord knows I have had some stupid close calls while taxiing. (Young stud J-3 pilot, pulls up in front of the open hanger and powers the tail around only to slam the wingtip into the hanger door frame. Still have the piece with the two shallow grooves in it to remind myself what a hotshot I was.) I have a mirror for seeing behind me and use it every time I fly. I use it to check rudder movement on preflight control check, check passengers to see how much they are enjoying the flight, check six for aircraft, both in the air and on the ground, especially when I do a mag check. Nothing like blasting the airplanes behind you because you didn't look. When I was in line yesterday at OSH, I was looking in the mirror to see six traffic. That was the T-18. I also used it as I departed to make sure someone wasn't running up my tail. Should it be standard equipment? No; it's just my preference. One mirror would not work as well in a -6/7 as there is another side of the airplane you can't see behind. >I hope the folks at EAA make it standard policy from now on to have spotters >available to help out any tail dragger pilot who needs a second set of eyes for> taxiing. Being one of those EAA folks that "works the line", I can comment on that. There is not the personnel available to "spot" every large airplane that gets in the mix with smaller airplanes on an 8,000 foot-long taxiway. Especially on the last day, a lot of those volunteers (me) are in their airplanes leaving, too. But even when the convention is in full tilt boogie, there aren't enough people; impossible task. We try to see events like the above before they get to the destructive phase, but you just can't see everything. You would be amazed how many "events" we do stop at an early phase. Example: this year, I only saw two aircraft attempting to land on the (very active) taxi way. Both diverted and used the runway, thanks to some sharp-eyed tower controllers. The fewest attempts in years. And no actually landings on the taxi way, either. Maybe a first. You can't fly the airplane for them, and you can't taxi it for them. When you get 10-13,000 airplanes in the same area all at the same time, things can happen. As EAA volunteers, we do everything we can to help avoid situations as happened Sunday. But you can't see and intervene in all of them. Ah, that we could. Another note: I was appalled this year at the radio chatter as I sat in the departure line between storms yesterday at OSH, a wait of about 20 minutes. There was PLENTY mouthy chatter (way too much; any mouthy chatter at ALL is too much) with people complaining to the controllers (why them?) on the TOWER FREQUENCY about the A-10 departure delay, the AeroShell T-6 departure delay, sitting in line too long and cylinder head temperatures, threatening to shut down on the runway to just prove to someone how unhappy he was, etc. You get the occasional quip on the tower frequency but yesterday was a study in anger, meanness, immaturity, and "all about ME"-ness. It was NOT the controllers that scheduled the A-10 departure while we were waiting in line in the rain. It wasn't the EAA that scheduled the rain while we were waiting in line for the A-10s. So who do you blame? Why didn't the complainers leave Saturday when the weather was better? Maybe it was the complainers fault for not planning ahead. I have taxied at OSH for 45 minutes, including a change in runways that took forever for everyone to line up again. Even with that there was little complaining. Yesterday, with a VICIOUS storm having just moved through and who-knows-what-else about to descend on us again, tempers were short. Getting in a hurry, being angry and frustrated are not conducive to intelligent decisions while flying (or taxiing). This is NOT to say this was a contributing factor in the accident, just an observation of our increasingly angry world. Too bad aviation can't be exempt from such. I am sad for the pilot of the TBM, the people who had to witness that event, the pilot next to his passenger that died and the passenger. It reinforces that all we have is now and not much else and something totally unpredictable can sneak up and bite you when you least expect it. A good friend of mine died in his -4 when another airplane landed on his as he landed at a TOWER-CONTROLLED AIRPORT. Yikes. The closest encounter I had yesterday was 20 miles from my home field in Colorado (flying home from OSH) when a CAP C-182 passed overhead from my 8 o'clock, but 100 feet higher. Would I have seen him if he wasn't just a little higher? I don't know. It would have been a collision course. He didn't see me, even when I rocked my wings. It was an eye-opener. Stay safe; keep looking, including in the rear-view mirror. Michael N232 Suzie Q Great time at OSH; good to be home. Dryer, anyway....... \ Do not archive ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 12:19:18 PM PST US From: Erich_Weaver@URSCorp.com Subject: RV-List: oil cooler and vernatherm --> RV-List message posted by: Erich_Weaver@URSCorp.com I am considering purchasing the oil cooler shutter that Vans offers, but dont exactly understand the need for this product. Shouldnt a correctly operating vernatherm, which most of our engines come with, do the same job, or am I missing something? Erich Weaver ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 12:22:59 PM PST US From: FLYaDIVE@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Oil temp limits --> RV-List message posted by: FLYaDIVE@aol.com In a message dated 7/31/06 12:26:00 PM Eastern Daylight Time, cheathco@cox.net writes: > I have noticed my newer engine is running hotter oil temp than the older one. > Used to be 190-200 max. now its going up to 220-230. > Anyone can say for sure what max norm opr and also max safe temp should be? > Charlie Heathco ================================= Charlie: You did not mention which engine you have? Most engine manufactures recommend 245 - 250 Deg F as the Max point. This is also the accepted point by oil manufactures as well. You are correct you will be seeing higher oil and CHT's with a new engine, it is breaking in. Keep your climbs shallow, air speed high and the RPMs high also. Don't baby the engine, oil consumption should stabilize in 50 hours or a little less. Change your oil after the first 10 hours and then at 20 hour intervals until oil consumption is stabilized Your 220 - 230 Deg F is quite normal especially for this time of year. Barry "Chop'd Liver" "Show them the first time, correct them the second time, kick them the third time." Yamashiada ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 12:27:38 PM PST US From: FLYaDIVE@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Oil temp limits --> RV-List message posted by: FLYaDIVE@aol.com In a message dated 7/31/06 12:26:00 PM Eastern Daylight Time, cheathco@cox.net writes: > I have noticed my newer engine is running hotter oil temp than the older one. > Used to be 190-200 max. now its going up to 220-230. > Anyone can say for sure what max norm opr and also max safe temp should be? > Charlie Heathco ============================= Charlie: A PS to my previous post... You did not mention what the CHT were. If yo have a gage keep them LOW ... Lycoming use to say 500 Deg F, they recently went down to 450 Deg F, I have my limit of No Higher than 435 Deg F. Barry "Chop'd Liver" "Show them the first time, correct them the second time, kick them the third time." Yamashiada ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 01:38:56 PM PST US From: Morocketman@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Further thread on airborne weather services! Thank you Ed! The website you mentioned avwx.net/home.php was just the answer I wanted. They stated that airborne reception was "spotty, at best", and that the FAA doesn't consider them an approved preflight source. The other little hidden cost was also a surprise............your cell phone has to be web-enabled by your provider at an additional cost. O.K. We have got cell phones covered. What are the best devices to receive airborne weather services? Good work Ed, Les Featherston ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 01:38:56 PM PST US From: Kevin Horton Subject: Re: RV-List: Oil temp limits On 31 Jul 2006, at 12:21, Charles Heathco wrote: > I have noticed my newer engine is running hotter oil temp than the > older one. Used to be 190-200 max. now its going up to 220-230. > Anyone can say for sure what max norm opr and also max safe temp > should be? Charlie Heathco > Is this with the same oil temp sender and indicator as the old engine? Has the oil temp indication system been calibrated so you are sure it is telling you the truth? Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) Ottawa, Canada http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8 ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 01:55:18 PM PST US From: "Rob Prior (rv7)" Subject: Re: RV-List: TBM Avenger/RV-6 accident at OSH and other OSH stuff --> RV-List message posted by: "Rob Prior (rv7)" Having seen almost the same scenario played out at Reno a number of years ago, with a Sea Fury taxiing up the back end of a Lancair, I can see how it happens. It's a large plane, with (I would guess) a high workload during taxi and run-up. Losing track of just how many small planes are in front of you would be very easy. In the incident I witnessed, the Lancair was pushed ahead enough by the impact that by the time the Sea Fury shut down he was still a foot from the cockpit. But the Lancair was still running, and as I recall it taxiied itself further ahead before shutting down to get out and inspect the damage. Still, my condolences to all involved, if anyone here knows any of them. As someone pointed out, it was a relatively incident-free year at Oshkosh this year, it's unfortunate that this had to be one of the incidents. -Rob ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 03:49:27 PM PST US From: "Charles Heathco" Subject: Re: RV-List: Recommendations for Iridium plugs? May have all info you need. I have Irridiums I put in year ago, I burn mostly mogas, so cant say much about lead exept that when I do burn some out of my left "takeoff" tank I have no fouling. They stay clean as a whislte all the time. They are expensive. Charlie Heathco ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 04:32:03 PM PST US From: "Mike Kraus" Subject: RE: RV-List: oil cooler and vernatherm --> RV-List message posted by: "Mike Kraus" Contrary to what I have read on some of the posts, the vernitherm always lets a bit of oil through to the oil cooler. I know because I tested it. By blocking the airflow to the oil cooler, you will be able to raise the oil temp. My concern with Van's set-up is that when their shutter is open, it is also blocking 1/2 of the air to the oil cooler..... So when your engine is running hot and you need to cool the oil real bad, you are losing airflow. I know you could remove it in the summer, but that would defeat the purpose. -Mike Kraus -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Erich_Weaver@URSCorp.com Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 3:18 PM --> RV-List message posted by: Erich_Weaver@URSCorp.com I am considering purchasing the oil cooler shutter that Vans offers, but dont exactly understand the need for this product. Shouldnt a correctly operating vernatherm, which most of our engines come with, do the same job, or am I missing something? Erich Weaver ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 04:39:58 PM PST US From: "Mike Kraus" Subject: RE: RV-List: Further thread on airborne weather services! The biggest obstacle would be getting the phone to work at anything over 2,000' agl. Mine works close to the ground, but it never works at the altitudes I fly. -Mike -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Morocketman@aol.com Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 12:32 PM Has anyone tried a CELL PHONE weather system with success or failure? Primarily due to limited cockpit space, I am considering buying a new cell phone with a larger than average screen and using Velcro to attach it to the panel. Do you like/dislike your weather on the cell phone? Whose service do you have/have tried in the past? What problems does anyone see with it? i.e. Is it illegal to use cell phone in an airplane? What were the costs involved? Connection fee? Monthly service? Additional minutes, etc? Thanks listers, you are a walking encyclopedia of knowledge, Les Featherston ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 05:15:39 PM PST US From: "Dale Ensing" Subject: Re: RV-List: Rear Prop Gov. Questions Dan, I'll try to get a decent picture tomorrow of my rear mounted govenor. However, my set up is a Woodward govenor on a O-360 in a 6A. But, if you think it well help I'll send the picture. Dale Ensing Maybe someone on the list could point me to a picture of a rear mounted prop governor so I could get a feel for how much room there is. Probably an O-360 would be the same. Thanks, Dan ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 05:15:39 PM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: RV-List: Matronics Email List Web Server Upgrade Tonight... --> RV-List message posted by: Matt Dralle Dear Listers, This evening I will be upgrading the Matronics Web Server hardware to a new Quad-processor 2.8Ghz Xeon system (yes, 4-physical CPUs!) with an Ultra 320 SCSI Raid 5 disk system and 5GB of DDR2 RAM. As with the older system, the new system will be running the latest version of Redhat Linux. Most of the software configuration work is already done for the migration, but I still have to sync all of the archive and forum data from the old system to the new system. I am anticipating about 2 to 3 hours of downtime for me to fully make the transition, although it could be considerable less if everything goes according to plan. The Matronics Webserver will be *UNavailable* from the Internet during the work, and you will receive a time-out if you try to connect during the upgrade. Email List Distribution will be *available* during the upgrade of the Web Server, and List message distribution will function as normal. This represents a significant performance upgrade for the Matronics Web Server and you should notice nicely improved searching and surfing performance following the upgrade! Best regards, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 05:48:55 PM PST US From: "D.Bristol" Subject: Re: RV-List: oil cooler and vernatherm The vernatherm only bypasses the oil cooler, it does not restrict the flow to it, so you will always have some oil going to the cooler. Dave Mike Kraus wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Mike Kraus" > >Contrary to what I have read on some of the posts, the vernitherm always >lets a bit of oil through to the oil cooler. I know because I tested >it. > >By blocking the airflow to the oil cooler, you will be able to raise the >oil temp. My concern with Van's set-up is that when their shutter is >open, it is also blocking 1/2 of the air to the oil cooler..... So when >your engine is running hot and you need to cool the oil real bad, you >are losing airflow. I know you could remove it in the summer, but that >would defeat the purpose. > >-Mike Kraus > >-----Original Message----- >[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of >Erich_Weaver@URSCorp.com >Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 3:18 PM > > >--> RV-List message posted by: Erich_Weaver@URSCorp.com > > >I am considering purchasing the oil cooler shutter that Vans offers, >but dont exactly understand the need for this product. Shouldnt a >correctly operating vernatherm, which most of our engines come with, do >the same job, or am I missing something? > >Erich Weaver > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 05:58:00 PM PST US From: "tcolson" Subject: RV-List: Looking for Reports on new David Clark X-11 Headset Are there any RV pilots out there that can provide an objective report on this new headset released at Oshkosh? I am particularly interested in an evaluation in the noise environment of a typical RV and how well the active noise cancellation works. The rest looked pretty good at Oshkosh. Thanks Tom Olson ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 05:58:49 PM PST US From: "John McMahon" Subject: RV-List: Small mirrow Does any one have on their roll bar a small mirror,like about 1" wide and about 3 or 4 inches long?? I have looked, and no luck!! Where did you get it??? Thanks John M (RV6 180/CS) ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 06:19:55 PM PST US From: James Freeman Subject: Re: RV-List: Small mirrow Try "baby mirrors" from a store that sells baby/infant supplies. They are designed so parents can see their offspring in the back seat. This is what's working for me in the RV-8 On Jul 31, 2006, at 7:57 PM, John McMahon wrote: > Does any one have on their roll bar a small mirror,like about 1" wide > and about 3 or 4 inches long?? I have looked, and no luck!! > Where did you get it??? > Thanks > John M (RV6 180/CS) > ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 06:49:20 PM PST US From: MLWynn@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Landing Gear This is really interesting stuff for a newbie like myself. Could not really comment without some study but would really like to know what others think. Regards, Michael Wynn RV 8 Wings ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 06:53:22 PM PST US From: "RV6 Flyer" Subject: RE: RV-List: Small mirrow --> RV-List message posted by: "RV6 Flyer" John: Mine came from Pep Boys. I needed to add a small film of RTV over the clamp so that it would stay in positon on the roll bar brace. Gary A. Sobek "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell, 1,917 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com ----Original Message Follows---- Does any one have on their roll bar a small mirror,like about 1" wide and about 3 or 4 inches long?? I have looked, and no luck!! Where did you get it??? Thanks John M (RV6 180/CS) ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 07:05:26 PM PST US From: "Mike Kraus" Subject: RE: RV-List: Stuff For Sale --> RV-List message posted by: "Mike Kraus" Do you still have the AOA for sale? Please advise, thanks! -Mike -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rveighta Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 6:17 PM --> RV-List message posted by: rveighta I have the following items for sale: ITEM CONDITION PRICE Angle of Attack (vans p/n IF AOA PRO) new $1,000 Microair 760 VHF Transciever slightly used $575 Rose Electroair electronic ignition used $400 RV-8(A) fiberglass wingtip light fairings new $10 Westach CHT gauge (p/n 2C1) new $15 Westach EGT gauge (p/n 2C2) new $15 If you need additional info, email me direct or give me a call at (423) 257-6566. Walt Shipley ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 07:08:41 PM PST US From: "Larry Bowen" Subject: RE: RV-List: Further thread on airborne weather services! http://mobile.wunderground.com provides decent info for free if you can surf the web via your phone. That was my plan before I invested in the 396. I mostly used it on the ground, not in flight. I have a Treo 650 and verizon service. - Larry Bowen Larry@BowenAero.com http://BowenAero.com _____ Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 7:38 PM The biggest obstacle would be getting the phone to work at anything over 2,000' agl. Mine works close to the ground, but it never works at the altitudes I fly. -Mike -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Morocketman@aol.com Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 12:32 PM Has anyone tried a CELL PHONE weather system with success or failure? Primarily due to limited cockpit space, I am considering buying a new cell phone with a larger than average screen and using Velcro to attach it to the panel. Do you like/dislike your weather on the cell phone? Whose service do you have/have tried in the past? What problems does anyone see with it? i.e. Is it illegal to use cell phone in an airplane? What were the costs involved? Connection fee? Monthly service? Additional minutes, etc? Thanks listers, you are a walking encyclopedia of knowledge, Les Featherston ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 07:47:59 PM PST US From: "JOHN STARN" Subject: Re: RV-List: Air Oil Separators OK, I'll add a little to our story. We installed three separators (one at a time), put in reducers to make them fit, 3/4" ID down to the sizes on the separator, looped in a high point, put a relief hole in the top of the loop and tried everything anyone could recommend to make them work & not soil the belly. Blow-by did not seem to be a problem (newly rebuilt) BUT too much oil in the sump and ANY restriction of the vent line resulted in oil leaks. Two of the case/cover leaks disappeared & have stayed gone as soon as we ran the vent full line size without restriction. Two other leaks area were lessened but we loosened the bolts holding them, added RTV & retorked them. If we overfill by a cup, we get a cup of oil on the belly. We did reinstall the full sized rubber line with a high loop and that solved our problem. Your invited out & can stick your finger up in the vent line and you'll get it dirty but not enough oil to form a single drop. I realize that this is anecdotal and your mileage may differ BUT you would have to talk long & loud to get us to put any separator back on N561FS. HRII IO-540 J4A5 Do Not Archive. KABONG (GBA & GWB) ----- Original Message ----- From: D.Bristol To: rv-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 7:59 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Air Oil Separators The oil might not be coming from the vent. It doesn't take a very big leak to make a real mess. Dave Paul Besing wrote: I'm not convinced on these things...not sure if the one on my purchased RV-4 is clogged or what, but the belly get's just as dirty in 4 flights than it would without one. I've got a return going into the crank case, and and exit going out by the exaust, and am getting ALOT of oil on the belly after 8-10 hours if I don't clean it regularly. Again, it may be clogged or something, but unfortunately there is no way to take it apart and see. Paul Besing lucky wrote: Any make/model preference on these things? I was surprised to see such a wide range of options in the ACS catalogue. I don't know anyone who is actally using one so this one goes out to the list. Anyone using the "experimental" $45 round one? I found none on ebay for airplanes. I thought this would be an easy salvage item to find. For those that are routing the oil back into the engine, are you modifying the dip stick housing to accept a return hose? thx, lucky do not archive