Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:36 AM - Re: Re: purge line recommendation? (Kevin Horton)
2. 07:08 AM - Re: Rear Prop Gov. Questions / plate (glen matejcek)
3. 10:33 AM - Re: Will an RV Fly without the slider canopy (Morocketman@aol.com)
4. 12:26 PM - Re: Will an RV Fly without the slider canopy (kitfoxmike)
5. 01:49 PM - purge line recommendation? (James H Nelson)
6. 02:59 PM - New F.A.B. alternate air intake (Terry Watson)
7. 03:28 PM - Re: purge line recommendation? (Charles Reiche)
8. 04:05 PM - Re: purge line recommendation? (Terry Watson)
9. 06:37 PM - Re: purge line recommendation? (Charlie England)
10. 08:16 PM - Re: Will an RV Fly without the slider canopy (B25Flyer)
11. 08:33 PM - Re: Modified squeezer die set for trailing edges (Sherman Butler)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: RE: purge line recommendation? |
On 4 Aug 2006, at 24:22, Erich_Weaver@URSCorp.com wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Erich_Weaver@URSCorp.com
> Garry:
>
> Made me smile when I read your question, as thats exactly what I
> said when I got my engine from Aerosport Power (IO-360B1B).
>
> Check the archives for further info, but the purge line is in
> common use for fuel injected engines to make starting easier when
> the engine is already hot. The thought is that the fuel sitting
> stagnant in the hose within the hot engine compartment can
> vaporize, making subsequent starting difficult. How big of a
> problem this really is depends on who you talk to. I know plenty
> of pilots with fuel injection on their certified planes that have
> never heard of a purge valve either. Regardless, the "solution" to
> the problem is a purge valve at the fuel divider, where the fuel is
> distributed to the individual cylinders. The purge valve is
> manually opened the using a bowden cable, and returns the hot fuel
> into one of the lines leading to your tanks.
>
> You should also know that the purge valve is also used to kill the
> engine. Apparently, mixture control cannot completely stop all
> fuel from reaching the engine and it may be able to keep running-
> not the case when using the purge valve.
>
> Somebody else chime in if Ive missed anything.
We need to distinguish between two different fuel injection systems:
Airflow Performance (AFP) - AFP fuel injection systems are commonly
used to modify carbuereted engines to fuel injection. They are also
commonly used on new built or overhauled engines for experimental
use. AFP recommends a purge line for their system, to facilitate hot
starts, and because in many installations the engine cannot be
stopped with the mixture control.
Precision (originally made by Bendix) - this is the fuel injection
system that comes on fuel-injected engines as delivered by Lycoming.
This system, as installed on type certificated aircraft, does not
have, or need a purge valve. The vast majority of installations on
experimental aircraft are without a purge valve.
Find out what type of fuel injection your engine will have, then you
can figure out whether a fuel return line will be needed.
Kevin Horton
Ottawa, Canada
Message 2
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| Subject: | RE: Rear Prop Gov. Questions / plate |
--> RV-List message posted by: "glen matejcek" <aerobubba@earthlink.net>
Hi All-
First off, I forget who originally brought the topic of the governor pad
plate up, but the majority of you are safe as it only applies to the dual
mag engines.
To address your specific questions:
>I don't recall getting a 'plate' with my Jihostroj governor.
It's a Lyc part.
>Details please! How thick, what shape, what material, specific to governor
brand,
>where in what manual is it referred to, anyone got pictures.....?
It's a piece of sheet metal, steel I believe, that is configured just like
the gov gaskets, except that it is missing the smaller of the two holes
that lie on it's long axis. It is required because of the dual mag
accessory case, not a specific governor. It is part # LW-12347 and appears
as item #31 in figure 8, pages 2-3 and 2-4 of the Lyc IO 360 wide cylinder
flange engine parts catalog.
>You have me confused by the use of the word "case" above. I was
>under the impression that these items were located between the
>governor and the adapter. Am I wrong? Do they go between the adapter
>and the accessory case?
Sorry for the confusion- the dual mag engines don't use an adaptor, and as
such the plate goes between the accessory case pad and the governor itself.
>I too need some clarification. I have a governor, an adaptor, and an
>accessory case. At which joint does the metal plate go? Apparently the
metal
>plate must have a rough surface or serrations, etc., that hold the gaskets
>better. Is this true?
If you need an adaptor, you do not use the plate, and vice versa. The
plate is smooth, as I recall it.
>Something that I had never thought about is that the prop pressure must
run
>well above engine oil pressure -- perhaps 150 PSI? That means that the
front
>main bearing is being lubricated by this pressure too, since there are no
>seals between the prop feed and the 2 bearing surfaces on the front main
>bearing.
I can't comment on the oil pathways for the lubrication of the fwd bearings
(anyone from BPA listening in?), but if my interpretation of the docs that
came with my gov (in Czech and SI) is correct, it was tested to an output
of 330 psi. I also checked with a Hartzell techie, and all he could
contribute at the moment was that they bench test their props at between
110 and 120 psi (air) and advise prop shops to not exceed 175 psi. This
is, of course, in a static condition and higher pressures could be
encountered in flight. I'll let you guys know if / when they call back
with more info.
Sorry if this exchange put a scare into any of the single mag folks out
there!
glen matejcek
aerobubba@earthlink.net
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Will an RV Fly without the slider canopy |
I kind of misunderstood the question. I thought you were referring to
inadvertent loss of the canopy rather than purposeful departure without it.
I have flown a good deal of open/no cockpit airplanes, and I would defer to
the experienced motorcyclists on the list as to what max speed is comfortable,
and what is too fast. My feeling is over 70 without a windscreen is getting
pretty fast, and over 85-95 (ie Skybolt, Pitts) with a w/s is getting on the
edge. And that is with safe head and face protection.
Them bugs start to hit danged hard.
Let us know how the flight goes........................
Les
PS Good report Gummybear!
do not archive
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Will an RV Fly without the slider canopy |
--> RV-List message posted by: "kitfoxmike" <kitfoxmike@yahoo.com>
I guess with that, is it a slider or tip up. with a slider you have somewhat of
a shield up front.
--------
kitfoxmike
kitfox4 1200 912ul speedster
http://www.frappr.com/kitfoxmike
rv7 wingkit
reserved 287RV
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=52364#52364
Message 5
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| Subject: | purge line recommendation? |
--> RV-List message posted by: James H Nelson <rv9jim@juno.com>
Garry,
Its a Air Flow Performance thing. Its necessary to be sure that
the fuel stops going to the spider and on to the injectors. The purge
valve lets off any pressure that may be there after the engine trys to
stop. (not quite). It also lets you run cooler fuel up to the
distribution spider when doing a "hot start". This stops any unwanted
burps when starting after a hot start. I don't want to be on take off
and have a air bubble in the line suddenly cause the engine to quit.
The vaporization is caused by hot fuel vaporizing in the system. I'm
told some systems do fine with out the purge system. Me? I'll use it.
Jim
Message 6
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| Subject: | New F.A.B. alternate air intake |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Terry Watson" <terry@tcwatson.com>
A couple of weeks or so ago I asked about other builder's experiences with
Van's new alternate air intake that mounts on the bottom of the Filtered Air
Box (FAB) I think I now have a solution that works, at least to my
satisfaction. No testing yet, I'm still ground-bound for awhile longer.
I bought another of Van's new shuttered oil cooler air controls ($85.00!)
and mounted it under the FAB, leaving the round metal flange of the 2nd
generation alternate air intake in place but removing the swinging door. I
spaced the shuttered door down 1/4", more or less, to create a small plenum
and adapt the larger rectangular shuttered door to the smaller round
opening. I also incorporated a larger mounting plate for the shutter so my
nutplates could all be outside the footprint of the filter. It all seems to
work. It opens and closes with a short (maybe 1-1/2") pull on the knob in
the cockpit.
Disadvantages: a) A little more weight, b) It isn't completely air tight,
and c) I have some nutplates now inside the FAB but outside the filter
creating some turbulence in the incoming air, and d) $85.00 plus the control
cable and other mounting hardware.
Terry
RV-8A finishing (?)
Seattle
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: purge line recommendation? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Charles Reiche <charlieray@optonline.net>
Unless you take off within about a minute I do not forsee this happening.
Many pilots claim to suffer from vapor hot starts but it just turns out that
they do not know how to start their own airplane.
When you pull the mixture to idle cut off it should fully make the stop and
thus close off the mixture valve or slide in varying carbs, throttle bodies,
etc. Fuel flow dividers have a spring loaded poppet valve to stop fuel flow
to the cylinders below 3psi.
FYI
Charlie
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, August 04, 2006 4:39 PM
> --> RV-List message posted by: James H Nelson <rv9jim@juno.com>
>
> Garry,
> Its a Air Flow Performance thing. Its necessary to be sure that
> the fuel stops going to the spider and on to the injectors. The purge
> valve lets off any pressure that may be there after the engine trys to
> stop. (not quite). It also lets you run cooler fuel up to the
> distribution spider when doing a "hot start". This stops any unwanted
> burps when starting after a hot start. I don't want to be on take off
> and have a air bubble in the line suddenly cause the engine to quit.
> The vaporization is caused by hot fuel vaporizing in the system. I'm
> told some systems do fine with out the purge system. Me? I'll use it.
>
>
> Jim
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | purge line recommendation? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Terry Watson" <terry@tcwatson.com>
We have been through all this before, more than once. Check the archives.
Airflow Performance's owner's manual states that idle cut-off with the
mixture will NOT reliably shut off the engine. Some fuel still leaks by. So
they recommend installing the purge valve to be used to recirculate the fuel
to cool it down when it the engine gets head soak, AND to shut down the
engine.
Terry
RV-8A, Aerosport Power/Superior IO-360B1B (180hp) with Airflow Performance
fuel injection
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charles Reiche
Sent: Friday, August 04, 2006 3:24 PM
--> RV-List message posted by: Charles Reiche <charlieray@optonline.net>
Unless you take off within about a minute I do not forsee this happening.
Many pilots claim to suffer from vapor hot starts but it just turns out that
they do not know how to start their own airplane.
When you pull the mixture to idle cut off it should fully make the stop and
thus close off the mixture valve or slide in varying carbs, throttle bodies,
etc. Fuel flow dividers have a spring loaded poppet valve to stop fuel flow
to the cylinders below 3psi.
FYI
Charlie
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, August 04, 2006 4:39 PM
> --> RV-List message posted by: James H Nelson <rv9jim@juno.com>
>
> Garry,
> Its a Air Flow Performance thing. Its necessary to be sure that
> the fuel stops going to the spider and on to the injectors. The purge
> valve lets off any pressure that may be there after the engine trys to
> stop. (not quite). It also lets you run cooler fuel up to the
> distribution spider when doing a "hot start". This stops any unwanted
> burps when starting after a hot start. I don't want to be on take off
> and have a air bubble in the line suddenly cause the engine to quit.
> The vaporization is caused by hot fuel vaporizing in the system. I'm
> told some systems do fine with out the purge system. Me? I'll use it.
>
>
> Jim
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: purge line recommendation? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Charlie England <ceengland@bellsouth.net>
Terry Watson wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Terry Watson" <terry@tcwatson.com>
>
>We have been through all this before, more than once. Check the archives.
>
>Airflow Performance's owner's manual states that idle cut-off with the
>mixture will NOT reliably shut off the engine. Some fuel still leaks by. So
>they recommend installing the purge valve to be used to recirculate the fuel
>to cool it down when it the engine gets head soak, AND to shut down the
>engine.
>
>Terry
>RV-8A, Aerosport Power/Superior IO-360B1B (180hp) with Airflow Performance
>fuel injection
>
You know, every time that I've just about convinced myself to forget
about auto conversions because they are just too much trouble to adapt &
install, I get a little reminder about 'aircraft quality'. (And this
thing is supposed to be an *improvement* over the Bendix !)
:-)
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Will an RV Fly without the slider canopy |
--> RV-List message posted by: "B25Flyer" <dougr@petroblend.com>
I lost a tip-over canopy (no windshield) on a full scale plastic replica of a P-51
with a T-53 Lycoming Turbine. I was at about 185 kias when it came off.
I flew about 5 miles back to the airport and landed. I had to add some power
on downwind/ base and the helmet nearly tore my head off. It was the most physically
demanding thing I have ever done in my life!!!!
The visor was ripped off my helmet, but the helmet kept my glasses on my face and
protected my eyes. Without them I doubt I could have done it.
We found the canopy on the roof of a building, buffed out the scratches, glued
the hinges on again and 24 hours later, we were flying again. With a safety latch.
There was a harmonic in the latch lever. The lever vibrated and came unlatched
again while I was being photographed on the East side of Lake Winnebago at OSH
and it was a long scary trip back to OSH, but the safety latch held.
I would not recommend it. Latch your canopy and check it twice!
I like the fixed windscreen on the Rocket!
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
F1 EVO
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=52476#52476
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Modified squeezer die set for trailing edges |
Sure. I have one. I thought it worked great.
"Folbrecht, Paul" <PFolbrecht@starkinvestments.com> wrote: After not the best
results using the traditional method on my rudder TE, I'd like to try this:
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/jimnbev@olypen.com.07.29.2003/index.html
on the elevators.
Does anybody happen to have a set of grinded dies for this purpose? If there
was a set available for sale or lending I would prefer that to making my own.
I can be reached off-list at paul.folbrecht@veribox.net.
Thanks,
Paul
9A QB #1176
Sherman Butler
RV-7a Wings
Idaho Falls
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