Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:20 AM - Re: Re: Leaning on ground? (FLYaDIVE@aol.com)
2. 04:28 AM - Re: oshkosh accident (Roger Embree)
3. 04:32 AM - Flap actuator to rod end - locking (Doug Gray)
4. 05:47 AM - Re: Oshkosh accident - Caution, on my Soapbox (glen matejcek)
5. 06:13 AM - Re: Re: Accident photos (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Mich=E8le_Delsol?=)
6. 07:13 AM - microfiber cloth? (bertrv6@highstream.net)
7. 07:14 AM - Re: oshkosh accident (JT Helms)
8. 07:21 AM - Re: N710RV First Flight (bertrv6@highstream.net)
9. 08:08 AM - Re: N710RV First Flight (Lloyd, Daniel R.)
10. 08:08 AM - Re: microfiber cloth? (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
11. 08:13 AM - GPS & Autopilot Setup (Albert Gardner)
12. 08:18 AM - Re: microfiber cloth? (Dale Ensing)
13. 08:18 AM - Re: Re: Oshkosh accident - Caution, on my Soapbox (Rob Prior (rv7))
14. 08:18 AM - Re: Flap actuator to rod end - locking (Albert Gardner)
15. 08:19 AM - Re: oshkosh accident (Joseph Larson)
16. 08:23 AM - Re: oshkosh accident (Rob Prior (rv7))
17. 08:45 AM - Re: GPS & Autopilot Setup (Sam Buchanan)
18. 08:51 AM - First Flight of N23BB (Bruce Bell)
19. 08:53 AM - Re: Flap actuator to rod end - locking (J. R. Dial)
20. 08:53 AM - Re: oshkosh accident (Ron Lee)
21. 09:13 AM - Sensenich metal prop bolts (J. R. Dial)
22. 09:17 AM - Re: SL-30 and GTX-327 mounting trays (Charlie Kuss)
23. 09:27 AM - Re: Re: Oshkosh accident - Caution, on my Soapboxt (Charlie Kuss)
24. 10:27 AM - Re: First Flight of N23BB (John Jessen)
25. 10:30 AM - Re: Re: Oshkosh accident - Caution, on my Soapbox (linn Walters)
26. 10:48 AM - Re: Re: Oshkosh accident - Caution, on my Soapboxt (Joseph Larson)
27. 10:57 AM - Re: Flap actuator to rod end - locking (Jeff Point)
28. 11:14 AM - Re: GPS & Autopilot Setup (Sam Buchanan)
29. 11:14 AM - TBM Accident (Wheeler North)
30. 11:44 AM - Re: First Flight of N23BB (Charles Rowbotham)
31. 12:28 PM - Flying to OXR (Bill VonDane)
32. 12:31 PM - Re: TBM Accident (Ron Lee)
33. 12:31 PM - Re: Oshkosh accident - Caution, on my Soapboxt (marknlisa@hometel.com)
34. 01:22 PM - Re: doors off? (SCOTT SPENCER)
35. 01:27 PM - Re: Flap actuator to rod end - locking (Richard Seiders)
36. 02:31 PM - Re: TBM Accident (Ed Holyoke)
37. 02:44 PM - Re: Re: Oshkosh accident - Caution, on my Soapboxt (RV6 Flyer)
38. 02:46 PM - Re: Oshkosh accident - Caution, on my Soapboxt (Dave Johnson)
39. 03:29 PM - Re: microfiber cloth? (Larry Mersek)
40. 03:31 PM - Re: Flap actuator to rod end - locking (Albert Gardner)
41. 03:58 PM - Re: Flap actuator to rod end - locking (LarryRobertHelming)
42. 04:32 PM - Re: Re: Oshkosh accident - Caution, on my Soapbox (Tim Bryan)
43. 05:58 PM - Re: GPS & Autopilot Setup (FLYaDIVE@aol.com)
44. 07:15 PM - Re: GPS & Autopilot Setup (Albert Gardner)
45. 07:42 PM - Re: GPS & Autopilot Setup (Sam Buchanan)
46. 08:20 PM - Re: Re: Oshkosh accident - Caution, on my Soapboxt (gert)
47. 10:58 PM - Re: doors off? (Bob Perkinson)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Leaning on ground? |
--> RV-List message posted by: FLYaDIVE@aol.com
In a message dated 8/7/06 11:11:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net writes:
> Hi Barry! The Lycoming 'leaning/lead removing process' is done just
> before takeoff and just before shutdown because it supposes that you
> were taxiing around with the engine just above idle power. Low power
> operations do not get the cylinder temps up so the natural lead
> scavenging process can occur. Of course, if you leaned on the ground
> that violates Lycomings "8500' 75% power" rule so they can't support
> that. Mark could lessen the low power lead fouling problem by
> aggressive leaning on the ground or switch to an unleaded fuel.
> Linn
====================================
Hi Linn:
As you said, Lycoming can't support that. And I'd bet dollars to doughnuts
that there is no data on how long at low RPM it takes to develop lead.
Morristown AP (KMMU) here in NJ has a LONG taxi to and from the runway, over a
mile
each way and many times you are waiting for a Jet to get its IFR clearance.
Now, during the taxi it would be recommended to lean aggressively. After all
you are only about 1000 to 1300 RPM not really at the 75% power point :-)
Better to do the lead scavenging procedure prior to takeoff than at shutdown
(see previous post for reasoning). There are just too many holes in Lycoming's
procedure, it does not make sense. But, then again, what does Lie-Comming do
that ever does make mechanical sense? Ya gots to ask the lawyers!
YES! By all means, use unleaded fuel.
Barry
"Chop'd Liver"
"Show them the first time, correct them the second time, kick them the third
time."
Yamashiada
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: oshkosh accident |
--> RV-List message posted by: Roger Embree <rembree@sympatico.ca>
This list certainly tosses enough ideas around for the lawyers seize. I
like Gordon Comforts ideas.
In addition to looking over my shoulder etc I wouldn't mind taxiing
along with a flag on the top of a long pole. My kids already think I am
goofy so I don't mind being uncool. Surely there is enough collective
creativity here to design something telescopic that would mount to the
back side of the seat or neatly fits into the baggage compartment. It
could be named after our fallen brother.
Just one idea.
RE
JT Helms wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "JT Helms" <jhelms@i1.net>
>
>Although I generally agree that the PIC of the Avenger was at fault, I'd bet
>my last dollar that EAA gets sued as part of that loss, though. It's their
>party after all, but the main reason is that they likely have more $ and
>insurance coverage available than the Avenger pilot (who will certainly also
>be named in any lawsuit).
>
>JT
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Flap actuator to rod end - locking |
--> RV-List message posted by: Doug Gray <dgra1233@bigpond.net.au>
I have converted my manual flap kit to electric.
What are the best options to lock the rod end bearing to prevent it
spinning out of the actuator when the jam nut works loose.
Doug Gray
RV-6 finishing kit
Message 4
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| Subject: | RE: Oshkosh accident - Caution, on my Soapbox |
--> RV-List message posted by: "glen matejcek" <aerobubba@earthlink.net>
Hi Jeff-
Thanks for your thoughtful and measured input. Personally, I like the
suggestion that warbird operations be responsible for warbird operations.
It seems to me that would be appropriate from both an experiential and
resource basis.
My other observation regards the comment "However, it was a freak
accident..." Perhaps this was a first for OSH, but it's not really an
isolated event. I can't recall the exact date, but within the last couple
of years here locally we had a couple of RV's taxiing to the fuel pumps
when one stopped and the other didn't. Fortunately, their relative sizes
precluded the kind of tragedy that occurred at the convention.
If you and your crew can come up with a plan to facilitate our success as
aviators, as well as help preserve our convention, then thank you very
much. However, it still falls to us as PIC's to protect ourselves and each
other. Please, people, be aware of your surroundings.
glen matejcek
aerobubba@earthlink.net
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Accident photos |
--> RV-List message posted by: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Mich=E8le_Delsol?= <michele.delsol@microsigma.fr>
Here is another tragedy which I relate to emphasize the need to be very
attentive as to what we do when flying. I personally know all the
protagonists, including the dead pilot, but not the controller at the
control tower.
This happened this spring at my airport in France.
Cri-Cri (for those who are unfamiliar with this airplane - Cri-Cri is the
worlds smallest twin - empty weigh 190 lbs. - two one cylinder engines) was
on runway threshold - Cessna 150 was on short final. Airport is controlled -
this is all within two hundred yards of the control tower - grass runway
which passes 50 yards in front of the control tower. For some reason which
has not been determined, Cri-cri takes off, Cessna aborts landing,
presumably (nothing certain here as accident is still under investigation)
Cri-Cri got clearance to take off and Cessna was instructed to go around. To
make a long story short, Cri-Cri flew up into the Cessna's propeller -
Cessna chewed up the T-tail rudder and horizontal stabilizer of the Cri-Cri.
The collision occurred at approximately 150 ft above the ground. Without an
empennage, the Cri-cri tumbled forward head over heels and hit the ground
flat on its back on the runway from which it was taking off - the pilot was
killed instantly on impact. The crew of two in the Cessna safely managed to
make it back the other runway.
I relate this to emphasize that the PIC should not take anything for
granted. This concerns both the Cessna's and the Cri-Cri's PICs. At the
airport, no one is debating as to who is at fault - it is a tragic loss for
us and sobering as to the inherent risk of flying. One should be on guard at
all times and not take anything for granted. This accident, as the one at
Oshkosh, should never have happened.
Please do not ask questions on this accident - I just wanted to relate it so
that it should help us be more careful as we fly.
Michele
RV8 - Fuselage
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron Lee
Sent: lundi 7 aot 2006 17:04
Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Accident photos
--> RV-List message posted by: Ron Lee <ronlee@pcisys.net>
>I'm with Jerry on this one. We have censored each other to the point that
we
>can't talk about and learn anything from the loss of those who share our
>interest in flying little airplanes. We can't talk about Scott Crossfield's
>accident because that might not show the respect he deserves. We shouldn't
>look at pictures of a beautiful RV-6 chopped up by a prop because it might
>offend someone's sensibilities?
I had never heard of Crossfield but my initial thought was that he screwed
up
royally. That opinion has only been reinforced by obtaining additional info
about the pilot error leading to death event. I learned nothing from that
pilot
error event since I already know that flying into severe thunderstorms is
stupid.
The Oshkosh Avenger/RV6 incident is not one that I had ever considered so
I did learn from it. The pictures were not gruesome but were very
informative. I
have not been in a similar taxiing situation but if I ever am I will make
appropriate
actions to NOT be in front of such a plane.
I often hear after aviation fatalities that we can all learn from
it. Personally in recent
years I don't recall any that I learned from except for this taxiing
death. There may
have been others that I don't recall. Fact is that pilots have always done
stupid
things that result in fatalities. I suspect that they always will and I
see no way to
dramatically reduce those pilot error fatalities.
It would be great if the RV community could do something to reduce fatal
pilot errors.
Perhaps some sort of web-based training that discusses the major causes of
deaths
from pilot errors. If that training resulted in a reduction in insurance
rates I would do
it every year. Ideally it would mean fewer RV pilot deaths.
And it would include photos.
Ron Lee
Message 6
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| Subject: | microfiber cloth? |
--> RV-List message posted by: bertrv6@highstream.net
Hi:
I have been reading, the postings about micro fiber cloth, to clean
windshield..
Can some one explain what is a micro fiber cloth, and where can I buy them?
I have use a regular small wash cloth, from Walt-mart...also the red type
you buy at auto store...
Am I using wrong kind...?
Bert
rv6a
do not archive
Message 7
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| Subject: | oshkosh accident |
--> RV-List message posted by: "JT Helms" <jhelms@i1.net>
I doubt highly if my mention below has somehow caught the eye of an attorney
who was previously oblivious to that accident and because of my post all of
a sudden realized there might be money to be made in this accident and that
he ought to try to get some of it. There are ambulance chasers in aviation
too, and trust me... They attend Oshkosh and other fly-ins and watch the
news reports. (not intended as a flame on all attorneys.)
It seemed to me that you were mildly flaming me for having posted my guess
that the EAA would get sued as my posting it would somehow cause it to
happen. I don't believe that was a just interpretation of my comment's
potential effect.
I know, life's not fair. I'll shut up and get back to work now.
JT
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Embree
Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 6:07 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: oshkosh accident
--> RV-List message posted by: Roger Embree <rembree@sympatico.ca>
This list certainly tosses enough ideas around for the lawyers seize. I like
Gordon Comforts ideas.
In addition to looking over my shoulder etc I wouldn't mind taxiing along
with a flag on the top of a long pole. My kids already think I am goofy so I
don't mind being uncool. Surely there is enough collective creativity here
to design something telescopic that would mount to the back side of the seat
or neatly fits into the baggage compartment. It could be named after our
fallen brother.
Just one idea.
RE
JT Helms wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "JT Helms" <jhelms@i1.net>
>
>Although I generally agree that the PIC of the Avenger was at fault, I'd
bet
>my last dollar that EAA gets sued as part of that loss, though. It's
their
>party after all, but the main reason is that they likely have more $
>and insurance coverage available than the Avenger pilot (who will
>certainly also be named in any lawsuit).
>
>JT
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | N710RV First Flight |
--> RV-List message posted by: bertrv6@highstream.net
Quoting John Jessen <jjessen@rcn.com>:
> Russ, congratulations!!!!!!
>
> John Jessen
>
> do not archive
>
> _____
>
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Russell Daves
> Sent: Friday, July 28, 2006 4:42 PM
>
>
> First flight went off without a hitch today. Felt great. Plans are to fly
> every day for the next two weeks, either before or after work on the real
> job.
>
> Russ Daves
>
>
> Russ: Congratulations again''' I would like to know, what kind of engine
and what is in your intrument panel..
How long it took you to finish it?
Do you have pictures on the process....
Photos are good.. how one do, to publish a photo like yours? I am new
on that, Need special equipment, cammera etc?
Where are you located? If you come to Orlando, we would like to see your
plane..
Thanks
Bert
>
do not archive
Message 9
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| Subject: | N710RV First Flight |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR@wernerco.com>
Bert
There are three fine examples of Flying RV10's about 90 minutes north of
you in Ocala. Jesse and his dad are up there, you should contact him,
get a tour and listen to the history of his family and their good work
down south.
Dan
40269 (N289DT)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
bertrv6@highstream.net
Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 10:22 AM
Subject: RE: RV-List: N710RV First Flight
--> RV-List message posted by: bertrv6@highstream.net
Quoting John Jessen <jjessen@rcn.com>:
> Russ, congratulations!!!!!!
>
> John Jessen
>
> do not archive
>
> _____
>
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Russell Daves
> Sent: Friday, July 28, 2006 4:42 PM
>
>
> First flight went off without a hitch today. Felt great. Plans are
to fly
> every day for the next two weeks, either before or after work on the
real
> job.
>
> Russ Daves
>
>
> Russ: Congratulations again''' I would like to know, what kind of
engine
and what is in your intrument panel..
How long it took you to finish it?
Do you have pictures on the process....
Photos are good.. how one do, to publish a photo like yours? I am new
on that, Need special equipment, cammera etc?
Where are you located? If you come to Orlando, we would like to see
your
plane..
Thanks
Bert
>
do not archive
Message 10
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| Subject: | microfiber cloth? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder@sausen.net>
You can always Google it or go to
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microfiber. You can get Microfiber cloths
from pretty much anywhere including Wallyworld and Lowes Depot.
Michael Sausen
RV-10 #352 Buildus Interuptus due to moving
Do Not Archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
bertrv6@highstream.net
Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 9:12 AM
Subject: RV-List: microfiber cloth?
--> RV-List message posted by: bertrv6@highstream.net
Hi:
I have been reading, the postings about micro fiber cloth, to clean
windshield..
Can some one explain what is a micro fiber cloth, and where can I buy
them?
I have use a regular small wash cloth, from Walt-mart...also the red
type you buy at auto store...
Am I using wrong kind...?
Bert
rv6a
do not archive
Message 11
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| Subject: | GPS & Autopilot Setup |
I am using a ControlVision GPS (HP ipaq 4700) connected to my Trio EZ Pilot
Autopilot and it is not working properly. Is anyone else using this same
setup? I'm trying to resolve the problem and I'm wondering if it's working
for someone else.
Albert Gardner
Yuma, AZ
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: microfiber cloth? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dale Ensing" <densing@carolina.rr.com>
Bert,
Go here for explanation of microfiber cloth
and the type you should use.
http://www.autogeek.net/leabmi.html
Dale Ensing
> I have been reading, the postings about micro fiber cloth, to clean
> windshield..
> Can some one explain what is a micro fiber cloth, and where can I buy
them?
> I have use a regular small wash cloth, from Walt-mart...also the red type
> you buy at auto store...
> Am I using wrong kind...?
>
> Bert
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Oshkosh accident - Caution, on my Soapbox |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Rob Prior (rv7)" <rv7@b4.ca>
On 5:44:47 2006-08-08 "glen matejcek" <aerobubba@earthlink.net> wrote:
> My other observation regards the comment "However, it was a freak
> accident..." Perhaps this was a first for OSH, but it's not really an
> isolated event.
Not at all. The event I related from Reno a few years back is another (Sea
Fury meeting Lancair), but didn't a warbird overrun another warbird on
takeoff a few years back at Oshkosh? I seem to recall one radial-engined
warbird overrunning another after a miscommunication of takeoff procedure
during a formation flight.
But that being said, why are we discussing this on the RV-List?
-Rob
do not archive
Message 14
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| Subject: | Flap actuator to rod end - locking |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Albert Gardner" <ibspud@adelphia.net>
Van's suggest you drill a small hole at the lip of the actuator tube and
safety wire the tube so that it can't spin relative to the rod end bearing.
It's a little hard to get a hole there but a small drill started
perpendicular to the tube and then angled seems to work.
Albert Gardner
Yuma, AZ
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 4:30 AM
Subject: RV-List: Flap actuator to rod end - locking
I have converted my manual flap kit to electric.
What are the best options to lock the rod end bearing to prevent it
spinning out of the actuator when the jam nut works loose.
Doug Gray
RV-6 finishing kit
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: oshkosh accident |
--> RV-List message posted by: Joseph Larson <jpl@showpage.org>
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Roger Embree <rembree@sympatico.ca>
> In addition to looking over my shoulder etc I wouldn't mind taxiing
> along
> with a flag on the top of a long pole. My kids already think I am
> goofy so I
> don't mind being uncool. Surely there is enough collective
> creativity here
> to design something telescopic that would mount to the back side of
> the seat
> or neatly fits into the baggage compartment. It could be named
> after our
> fallen brother.
I don't think we need to carry around flagpoles for our airplanes.
But I wonder if a very very small change would make us more visible.
What if the policy was for small aircraft to sort of hug the left
side of the taxiway instead of doing what we all do -- plant the
front wheel on the centerline and be proud of our ability to taxi
precisely.
If the small aircraft hugged the left side, and the big aircraft did
what they could do S-turn or hug right, everyone should be able to
see everyone.
But I've never been in an aircraft where the pilot couldn't see an RV
parked in front of it, so I'm not sure if this would be sufficient
for the situation.
-Joe
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: oshkosh accident |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Rob Prior (rv7)" <rv7@b4.ca>
On 4:07:20 2006-08-08 Roger Embree <rembree@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> Surely there is enough
> collective creativity here to design something telescopic that would
> mount to the back side of the seat or neatly fits into the baggage
> compartment. It could be named after our fallen brother.
> Just one idea.
That's a great idea, but i'll add one feature to the device you describe...
It shouldn't stick straight up. In order to be seen over the nose of a
TBM, it would need to be nearly 20' high. I suggest that it be angled to
one side, so the "flag" appears about ten feet above the left wing. That
puts it on the pilot's side of most aircraft, and possibly far enough
"off-axis" that the rear plane would be able to see it. Of course,
S-turning would help too.
-Rob
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: GPS & Autopilot Setup |
--> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
Albert Gardner wrote:
> I am using a ControlVision GPS (HP ipaq 4700) connected to my Trio EZ
> Pilot Autopilot and it is not working properly. Is anyone else using
> this same setup? Im trying to resolve the problem and Im wondering if
> its working for someone else.
>
> Albert Gardner
>
Albert, the versions of AWM that I tried with the Trio did not provide
the standard NMEA protocol that the EZ-Pilot requires. I understand
there was considerable effort on the part of Trio to convince Control
Vision to standardize the NMEA output of AWM but it seems that may not
have happened.
Sam Buchanan
http://thervjournal.com
Message 18
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| Subject: | First Flight of N23BB |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bruce Bell" <brucebell74@sbcglobal.net>
Hi All,
After eleven years of fun N23BB flew for the first time this morning, 4 days
after my 76th birthday. Using N9X flight test program. Thanks to my wife of
49 years Anita Bell for her help and understanding. Stan Blanton was always
ready to drop everything and come over to help. Stan also planned a very
smooth move to the airport. Rick Liles EAA Chapter 19 Tech thanks for all
the tech help and move to the airport. Engine ran fine and no leaks on
postflight inspection. Able to walk away after the landing and 23BB can fly
again without any major repair! Thanks to Ann and Russ Daves for their
friendly first flight support.
Regards ,
Bruce Bell
Lubbock, Texas
Message 19
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| Subject: | Flap actuator to rod end - locking |
--> RV-List message posted by: "J. R. Dial" <jrdial@hal-pc.org>
They show how to drill and safety wire the lock nut in the
drawings. I did not do it and mine came loose so I would sure recommend
doing it. I did not pay attention to how it worked but when the motor
runs it puts a small amount of torque on the shaft that can eventually
cause the nut to loosen up. It took mine 225 hours to come loose.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doug Gray
Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 6:30 AM
Subject: RV-List: Flap actuator to rod end - locking
--> RV-List message posted by: Doug Gray <dgra1233@bigpond.net.au>
I have converted my manual flap kit to electric.
What are the best options to lock the rod end bearing to prevent it
spinning out of the actuator when the jam nut works loose.
Doug Gray
RV-6 finishing kit
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: oshkosh accident |
--> RV-List message posted by: Ron Lee <ronlee@pcisys.net>
>I don't think we need to carry around flagpoles for our airplanes.
I sure will not. I understand how people may want to relive the Rat Patrol
concept but it makes more sense for the big warbirds to install a forward
facing video system.
Ron Lee
Message 21
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| Subject: | Sensenich metal prop bolts |
I have a set of Sensenich bolts & washers for the series
72FM8S16 Sensenich metal prop that I will sell for $120. They came off
an RV6 with an XP-360 that is going to a CS prop. I will pay freight in
USA.
Email jrdial@hal-pc.org
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: SL-30 and GTX-327 mounting trays |
Tom,
This is something to consider. You want to keep the radio's side to
side "slop" movement in the tray to a minimum. Excessive movement can
damage the radio internals and does nothing good for the connector
pins. Use of screws below size #8 is problematic, as they tend to
break off easily if installed in nutplates. Best to use the largest
diameter screws which space will allow for your SL-30. The larger
diameter screw heads will act to reduce excess slop space.
Is the SL-30 tray made of aluminum or steel? If steel, is it heavy
gauge steel, like the GTX 327 tray? My 8A radio rack is a variation
of Mark Richardson's excellent design. I can email photos off list if you like.
Charlie
>--> RV-List message posted by: sarg314 <sarg314@comcast.net>
>
>Charlie:
> You are correct. I'm surprised, but that looks like it will
> work. I also checked the SL-30 tray and found that it has about
> 1/16" of space for the screw head, not 1/32". Stark Avionics
> informs me that they use 6-32 countersunk screws on the SL-30
> mounting tray. The heads stick up, since the you can't countersink
> the tray, but once again, they don't stick up enough to interfere
> with the radio sliding in and out. Not pretty, but they say it
> works well. (Why doesn't Garmin supply the right screws?) I called
> Garmin and they couldn't tell me what screw to use.
>Thanks,
>
>chaztuna@adelphia.net wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>Tom,
>>I can't address the problem with the SL-30. However, my GTX 320A
>>uses the exact same tray as your GTX 327. I used AN509-10 flush
>>screws to mount my GTX 320A, Icom A200 and RMI uMonitor. You are
>>correct that the dimple in the tray of the Garmin transponder does
>>not allow the head of the screw to fit flush. However, there is
>>room to install the radio with the screw head protruding. The
>>protruding screw head actually acts as an internal shim, to steady
>>the radio in the tray.
>>The Garmin tray was wider (thicker material) than my other 2 trays.
>>I simply made shims to compensate on the Icom and the uMonitor. I
>>am very pleased with the fit and cosmetics of my installation.
>>I suspect that you will find your SL-30 fits between the installed
>>screw heads. If it doesn't, you could always dimple the tray mounting holes.
>>Charlie Kuss
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Oshkosh accident - Caution, on my Soapboxt |
>snipped
>Obviously, the large tail dragger pilot also has full responsibility
>to taxi safely, but the "system" should make every effort to put him
>in a situation where that is possible. If the taxi way is too narrow
>to allow S-turns, then the only way a large tail dragger can taxi
>safely is with some outside assistance. The Avenger pilot was put in
>a very difficult situation. Once he was marshalled onto a narrow
>taxi way with no wing walkers, he had two choices: press on and hope
>for the best, or shut down and become a road block. He gambled with
>option 1, and he lost.
>
>Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
>Ottawa, Canada
>http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
Kevin,
He could have asked his wife to get out and act as a spotter. He
had a choice.
Just playing devils advocate
Charlie Kuss
Message 24
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| Subject: | First Flight of N23BB |
--> RV-List message posted by: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com>
Wow! 76 and flying and a loving wife ta boot! How lucky can you be!
Congratulations on the flight and your persistence and your family. Hope to
see some pictures one day. Enjoy!
John Jessen
RV-10 Tailcone
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Bell
Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 8:50 AM
Subject: RV-List: First Flight of N23BB
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bruce Bell" <brucebell74@sbcglobal.net>
Hi All,
After eleven years of fun N23BB flew for the first time this morning, 4 days
after my 76th birthday. Using N9X flight test program. Thanks to my wife of
49 years Anita Bell for her help and understanding. Stan Blanton was always
ready to drop everything and come over to help. Stan also planned a very
smooth move to the airport. Rick Liles EAA Chapter 19 Tech thanks for all
the tech help and move to the airport. Engine ran fine and no leaks on
postflight inspection. Able to walk away after the landing and 23BB can fly
again without any major repair! Thanks to Ann and Russ Daves for their
friendly first flight support.
Regards ,
Bruce Bell
Lubbock, Texas
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Oshkosh accident - Caution, on my Soapbox |
Charlie Kuss wrote:
>> snipped
>> Obviously, the large tail dragger pilot also has full responsibility
>> to taxi safely, but the "system" should make every effort to put him
>> in a situation where that is possible. If the taxi way is too narrow
>> to allow S-turns, then the only way a large tail dragger can taxi
>> safely is with some outside assistance. The Avenger pilot was put in
>> a very difficult situation. Once he was marshalled onto a narrow
>> taxi way with no wing walkers, he had two choices: press on and hope
>> for the best, or shut down and become a road block. He gambled with
>> option 1, and he lost.
>>
>> Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
>> Ottawa, Canada
>> http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
>
>
> Kevin,
> He could have asked his wife to get out and act as a spotter. He had
> a choice.
> Just playing devils advocate
> Charlie Kuss
Good point Charlie. There were lots of things that COULD have been done
.... but none were. However, I would have loved to hear what she said
after he made her get out and walk!!! :-D
Linn
do not archive
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Oshkosh accident - Caution, on my Soapboxt |
Just because the controllers at the airfield tell you to do something
doesn't mean you have to do it. In my one trip to Oshkosh, I was
told that I'd be directed to a run up area. Instead, the ground
controllers basically "pushed" me onto the runway with no run up. I
didn't know what else to do, so I just ran off the other side of the
runway and told the tower I'd like a run up before takeoff.
Optimal? Certainly not. And to this day, I don't know what I was
supposed to do. I don't think doing a run up in the parking area is
the right choice. Maybe I was supposed to do it during the taxi.
But I really expected a chance to pull over and do a proper run up.
It wasn't until they gestured me onto the runway that I realized I
was about to take off on an IFR flight plan without finishing my pre-
takeoff checklist.
But my point -- you CAN interrupt procedures if you don't think
they're safe, regardless of how annoying doing so might be to the
controllers. And difficulty in seeing the guy in front of you
definitely counts.
-J
On Aug 8, 2006, at 11:08 AM, Charlie Kuss wrote:
>> snipped
>> Obviously, the large tail dragger pilot also has full responsibility
>> to taxi safely, but the "system" should make every effort to put him
>> in a situation where that is possible. If the taxi way is too narrow
>> to allow S-turns, then the only way a large tail dragger can taxi
>> safely is with some outside assistance. The Avenger pilot was put in
>> a very difficult situation. Once he was marshalled onto a narrow
>> taxi way with no wing walkers, he had two choices: press on and hope
>> for the best, or shut down and become a road block. He gambled with
>> option 1, and he lost.
>>
>> Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
>> Ottawa, Canada
>> http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
>
> Kevin,
> He could have asked his wife to get out and act as a spotter. He
> had a choice.
> Just playing devils advocate
> Charlie Kuss
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Flap actuator to rod end - locking |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jeff Point <jpoint@mindspring.com>
I spun a nylock nut on backwards, and torqued it against the rod end as
a stop nut. Hasn't budged a bit, but I check it every annual.
Jeff Point
RV-6
Milwaukee
>
>
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: GPS & Autopilot Setup |
--> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
Sam Buchanan wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
>
> Albert Gardner wrote:
>> I am using a ControlVision GPS (HP ipaq 4700) connected to my Trio EZ
>> Pilot Autopilot and it is not working properly. Is anyone else using
>> this same setup? Im trying to resolve the problem and Im wondering
>> if its working for someone else.
>>
>> Albert Gardner
>>
>
>
> Albert, the versions of AWM that I tried with the Trio did not provide
> the standard NMEA protocol that the EZ-Pilot requires. I understand
> there was considerable effort on the part of Trio to convince Control
> Vision to standardize the NMEA output of AWM but it seems that may not
> have happened.
>
> Sam Buchanan
> http://thervjournal.com
I just received word from Trio (they monitor this list!) that apparently
the latest version of Anywhere Map does indeed send out a standardized
NMEA data stream.
Sam Buchanan
Message 29
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--> RV-List message posted by: Wheeler North <wnorth@sdccd.edu>
Well,
I would personally like to thank Jeff for his comments. As one who works
under Mike, aka Susie Q, this accident was one of those rare things that was
just that, an accident.
Go ahead write a boat load of rules and changes and policies and you will
still have a few accidents. Which by the way this year was the first time in
a few that we've had fatalities on field, which I think is a good record
given what we do.
I hate to be callous but get over it, the war birds are here to stay and we
want them. They cause the public gate to at least triple from what it would
be were they not here. That income is needed for this event to happen.
Make bigger taxi ways, it won't do squat. In a 1000' it's entirely possible
(as in I've seen it many times) for both planes to be in wiggle phase and
not be able to see each other if they are close. And who is going to make
bigger taxiways at every airport the TBM lands at?
Go ahead put wing walkers out there, that way the TBM will have more targets
to run over and kill.
RE control towers, guess what the only legal obligation of a control tower
for vfr traffic is to provide sequencing. Get over it, that's been tested in
court many times. They are not obligated nor able to provide separation
services in any vfr environment, particualrly on the gorund at Oshkosh.
And the TBM is taking a risk when it taxi's but that risk is no different
then the same risk you take when you taxi. I've seen little kids run out in
front of various aircraft, fortunately none I've seen were hurt. But by some
of this logic put forth we should outlaw kids and any airplane that might
run them over. Yes we have rules to help reduce those risks, but that said
all they do is reduce the risk, they never prevent entirely.
The two airplanes did not, and apparently could not see each other, that is
the cause of most aircraft collisions and to date no rule has ever fixed
that. I'm pretty certain no new rules will help things any.
If you are little and worried get a rearview mirror.
Or better yet give up flying, stop driving, avoid earthquake and volcano
country and don't eat at McDonald's any more.
The bottom line is that our emotional response to tragic events in aviation
is to cast a cause out there in the hopes of future prevention. This is one
of those cases where the accident chain wasn't broken and so it occured. But
any of the proposed fixes just make room for alternative chains without
really reducing the overall risk much.
You want to talk about safety, let's talk about the fact that an hour before
this happended the controllers were launching aircraft into 35 kt tailwind
takeoffs with rain in an effort to oblige the many who wanted to depart
pre-hurricane. They finally got it and closed the airport. But that closure
put even more pressure on the limited time slot for departures pre-airshow
after the WX system passed. So guess what, it's partly God's fault,
therefore I would suggest we write a rule forbidding God from having short
term hurricanes at Oshkosh.
And while we're at it the simplest fix would be to not allow RV's to come to
Oshkosh as that will eliminate about 2/3 of the overall traffic which will
greatly reduce the number of accidents.
In fact there's some good data to support this fix as RV's (and Bonanzas)
tend to be involved in many of the incidents that happen at Oshkosh.
So, yes I feel horrible about this, as I do about the Europa, and the Cub,
and the few others who perished coming to or from Oshkosh. And I feel bad
about those who perished just flying that week as I do about the estimated
98000 people who die each year from boo boos that happen in US hospitals.
That's almost twice the number of people who die in auto accidents and I'll
bet most of you didn't even know that statistic.
Get a life, be happy that you are alive, go fly your airplane and celebrate
those who can longer join us for that ride.
W
Message 30
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| Subject: | First Flight of N23BB |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham@hotmail.com>
Bruce,
CONGRATULATIONS and WELL DONE !!
Chuck & Dave Rowbotham
RV-8A
>From: "Bruce Bell" <brucebell74@sbcglobal.net>
>To: "RV List" <RV-List@matronics.com>
>Subject: RV-List: First Flight of N23BB
>Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 10:50:22 -0500
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Bruce Bell" <brucebell74@sbcglobal.net>
>
>Hi All,
>After eleven years of fun N23BB flew for the first time this morning, 4
>days after my 76th birthday. Using N9X flight test program. Thanks to my
>wife of 49 years Anita Bell for her help and understanding. >Regards ,
>Bruce Bell
>Lubbock, Texas
Message 31
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Bill VonDane" <bill@vondane.com>
Hey all...
In the next couple weeks I will be making a trip from Colorado Springs to
Oxnard Airport (OXR), by way of either Page, AZ or Sedona, AZ, and am
looking for a place to stay for a few days while I am in CA... I don't need
much, just a bed will do me just fine.....if anyone has any spare room in
the area please drop me a line...
Thanks in advance!!
-Bill VonDane
RV-8A ~ www.rv8a.com
bill@vondane.com
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: TBM Accident |
--> RV-List message posted by: Ron Lee <ronlee@pcisys.net>
>The bottom line is that our emotional response to tragic events in aviation
>is to cast a cause out there in the hopes of future prevention. This is one
>of those cases where the accident chain wasn't broken and so it occured. But
>any of the proposed fixes just make room for alternative chains without
>really reducing the overall risk much.
The fact that a warbird ran over an RV and killed someone sounds like
a broken accident chain to me. As far as "getting over it" I can think of
two families who probably won't be able to easily.
Ron Lee
>
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Oshkosh accident - Caution, on my Soapboxt |
--> RV-List message posted by: marknlisa@hometel.com
>From another lister:
> Obviously, the large tail dragger pilot also has full responsibility
> to taxi safely, but the "system" should make every effort to put him
> in a situation where that is possible. If the taxi way is too narrow
> to allow S-turns, then the only way a large tail dragger can taxi
> safely is with some outside assistance.
This argument, on its face, makes perfect sense - especially in light of
the possibility of "saving lives." Again I urge caution, I believe this to
be the first step down a slippery slope, at the bottom of which you'll
find Pandora's Box. I, for one, do not wish the system to do my job for
me, because the system rarely makes an effort to do anything, other
than to tell me what I cant do. Do you see the "system' making the
taxiways wider in response to this accident?
Making a mandatory rule (for that can be the system's only response) to
deal specifically with this situation may very well prevent its
reoccurrence, but at what cost? We are all (those certificated at least)
qualified pilots, qualified to operate an aircraft from chocks out to
chocks in. We already have a plethora of rules whose boundaries we are
obliged to remain within - do we really want more?
The counter-argument is, "It's only one rule, and it just might save
someone's life." Those making this counter-argument seek to trump all
future arguments by making potential opponents seem callous and uncaring
about human life.
One of flyings biggest draws is a marvelous sense of freedom. Part of
that sense of freedom comes from feeling the pride of accomplishment. It's
knowing we are engaging in a risky endeavor, risks we overcome through the
effective application of skills learned in training. Our training allows
us to bend an unruly aero-machine to our will. How long until "...just one
rule..." becomes too many rules? In Mexico one can't fly his or her
aircraft VFR at night. The Government thinks it's too risky...
We could save a tremendous number of lives in this country by making a
national 55 mph speed limit, and enforcing it with a speed governor on
every automobile. I don't know the specific ratios (I'm sure the hobby
physicists among us will correct me), but reducing the speed of an impact
by a factor of 1 reduces the force of that impact by a factor of 4 (Energy
= Mass times Velocity squared, I hate math...) The point is we don't have
a national speed limit; a deadly impact is a risk we are all willing to
accept - along with the freedom to drive faster.
As has been pointed out by another poster, this is the one and only time
an accident such as this has occurred at OSH in its long and storied
history. After this one, assuming *NO RULES* are added, how long do you
think it will be before another? How many of us will blithely sit on a
busy taxiway without knowing who or what is taxiing behind us? How about a
simple radio call, "Avenger taxiing south on Bravo, do you see the RV in
front of you?"
> You seem to be saying that one fatality in 36 years is an acceptable
> loss rate, so no changes are needed. What loss rate would it take
> before you would conclude that changes were warranted?
Another question designed to intimidate the opponent by making him or her
appear to be unconcerned about the loss of life - and is also very close
to a personal attack. Let me be clear, NO FATALITIES ARE ACCEPTABLE! The
question isnt whether fatalities are acceptable; the question is what
reaction to this accident is appropriate. Its not unusual to feel the
need to do something in the face of a tragic accident, but we must
approach the situation carefully so that whatever we do (or dont do) is
appropriate!
> The Avenger pilot was put in a very difficult situation. Once he
> was marshalled onto a narrow taxi way with no wing walkers, he had
> two choices: press on and hope for the best, or shut down and
> become a road block.
This argument is a little specious. Assuming the Avenger pilot even
considered the dangers of taxiing on a narrow taxiway in a row of mixed
traffic, he had an infinite number of options. If he was feeling
uncomfortable with the situation he may very well have chosen to continue
due to percieved pressure to do so - this, of course, is mere speculation.
We could also speculate that the perceived pressure to taxi and avoid
becoming a "road block" would surely have paled in comparison to the
eventual outcome, if only he had the gift of clairvoyance.
So what is the final outcome? What if there are no wing walkers available,
do we prohibit taxiing without them? Can we make enough rules so as to
rule out the possibility of one of making mistakes? I submit that the
umbrella of rules under which we currently operate is quite broad, but not
so broad as to prevent any number of tragic accidents from happening on a
daily basis. How many more would do the trick?
No, the reality is the Avenger's pilot operated within the rules, and
still made mistakes - mistakes that proved fatal for the victim in this
case. We can argue what he, the RV pilot, the EAA and/or the FAA should or
shouldn't have done until the cows come home, and it won't change the fact
that this accident was a freakish tragedy exactly *BECAUSE* it was so
unexpected, unlikely, unusual and uncommon.
Everyone involved in our avocation knows (or should know) the risks. Every
time we "slip the surly bonds" we are risking our life, the lives of our
passengers and assorted potential victims on the ground. We've all heard
the clich, "The only way to conduct a flight in complete safety is to not
conduct it at all," or something close to it.
It may be clich, but there is a small seed of truth there if one cares to
look for it. You have to look beyond the irony, beyond the sarcasm and
think! You'll find one of the immutable truths upon which our system of
liberty and freedom is founded - the very system that allows us the
freedom of personal flight. That truth, simply stated, tells us that we
are responsible and accountable for our actions. To abdicate that
responsibility is to abdicate our freedom. My fear is that the little seed
of truth found in the clich, a truth which can grow to understanding and
enlightenment, will wither and die if shielded from the sunlight of
freedom by the umbrella of rules.
IMHO, the *BEST* way to prevent this tragedy's reenactment is through
education, not legislation. In that regard, lets keep the ideas coming
for what we as pilots, not as regulators, can do.
Mark Sletten
Legacy FG N828LM
www.legacyfgbuilder.com
Message 34
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I would think you can't take the doors doors off your 172 without an STC to do
so.... at least that's the way it is for the Cessna 140. There is an STC (a friend
of mine has it) that allows ONE door to be off of a 140. It's a paperwork-only
sort of STC -but the fact that only one door is allowed off at a time kinda'
leads one to believe that the plane won't fly very well with both off. My
buddy says that his 140 is very windy and doggy on the performance with a door
off -and the interior trim tries very hard to leave the plane...
Scott
N4ZW
CFII A&P ATP
Message 35
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| Subject: | Flap actuator to rod end - locking |
--> RV-List message posted by: Richard Seiders <seiders@bellsouth.net>
The safety wire is new since my 6A.. Rod end loosened one time about 300
hrs ago. I put some loctite on it and no problem since.
DICK
At 11:53 AM 8/8/2006, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "J. R. Dial" <jrdial@hal-pc.org>
>
>
> They show how to drill and safety wire the lock nut in the
>drawings. I did not do it and mine came loose so I would sure recommend
>doing it. I did not pay attention to how it worked but when the motor
>runs it puts a small amount of torque on the shaft that can eventually
>cause the nut to loosen up. It took mine 225 hours to come loose.
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doug Gray
>Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 6:30 AM
>To: rv-list
>Subject: RV-List: Flap actuator to rod end - locking
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: Doug Gray <dgra1233@bigpond.net.au>
>
>I have converted my manual flap kit to electric.
>What are the best options to lock the rod end bearing to prevent it
>spinning out of the actuator when the jam nut works loose.
>Doug Gray
>RV-6 finishing kit
>
>
Message 36
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop@pacbell.net>
Wheeler,
I'm with you about new rules and policies in general. However, if a
procedural change can be made to address the cause, it might not be an
entirely bad thing.
The real problem was that the TBM pilot didn't know what airplane he was
following. He thought he was following the Tundra and hung back far
enough to see it, but was not even aware that there was an RV behind the
Tundra. When the Tundra pulled off, he thought he was clear ahead and
tried to move up and take station on whatever airplane was ahead of the
Tundra. He stated that he had 100 yards of clear pavement ahead. He
never once saw the RV.
The RV pilot said he didn't know the guy was behind him. He said that he
was directed to enter the taxiway by aircraft marshallers. That means
that either he pulled into the gap in front of the TBM while he was
already following the Tundra or the TBM pulled out behind him after he
taxied past. Either way, the Avenger driver never saw the RV. The
Lancair pilot behind the TBM (who chose not to pull out in front of the
big airplane even though aircraft marshallers were gesturing to him to
do so) said that he didn't see the TBM S-turning before he hit the RV.
I'm supposing here that he didn't feel that S-turns were necessary
because he could see the airplane he thought he was following - the
Tundra.
Maybe the accident chain would have been broken if the marshaller who
(possibly) directed the RV onto the taxiway ahead of the TBM had made a
point to inform the larger plane of who was in front of him as he
passed. Yeah, I know, he would have to run in behind the guy's wing and
it wouldn't be easy to make himself heard. Or maybe a handheld radio
could have been used to inform the taildragger pilot. If the TBM was
sequenced onto the taxi way after the RV, maybe that marshaller should
have informed him of who he was going to be following. It may be that
marshallers shouldn't be directing small airplanes into the queue ahead
of aircraft with bad forward visibility. If you can't see ahead and you
leave space so you can see who you're following, having that space fill
up like the freeway at rush hour makes it more likely that something
like this will happen again.
When we approach these large airshows for landing, we are identified by
type and color and told to follow an aircraft by type and color. Maybe
something like this should be done on the taxiway at least for aircraft
with limited visibility. We are already told to monitor a ground
frequency so theoretically everybody should be listening. It could go
something like this: "Avenger on taxiway P1 wiggle your ailerons, Roger
you are following a white RV who is behind a green and white Tundra".
Once he was thus sequenced, care would have to be taken not to run in
anybody else in front of him and it would still be incumbent on him to
occasionally verify that no new airplanes had snuck in on him. A radio
call might need to be made at several points along the taxiway.
Pax,
Ed Holyoke
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Wheeler North
Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 11:14 AM
Subject: RV-List: TBM Accident
--> RV-List message posted by: Wheeler North <wnorth@sdccd.edu>
Well,
I would personally like to thank Jeff for his comments. As one who works
under Mike, aka Susie Q, this accident was one of those rare things that
was
just that, an accident.
Go ahead write a boat load of rules and changes and policies and you
will
still have a few accidents. Which by the way this year was the first
time in
a few that we've had fatalities on field, which I think is a good record
given what we do.
I hate to be callous but get over it, the war birds are here to stay and
we
want them. They cause the public gate to at least triple from what it
would
be were they not here. That income is needed for this event to happen.
Make bigger taxi ways, it won't do squat. In a 1000' it's entirely
possible
(as in I've seen it many times) for both planes to be in wiggle phase
and
not be able to see each other if they are close. And who is going to
make
bigger taxiways at every airport the TBM lands at?
Go ahead put wing walkers out there, that way the TBM will have more
targets
to run over and kill.
RE control towers, guess what the only legal obligation of a control
tower
for vfr traffic is to provide sequencing. Get over it, that's been
tested in
court many times. They are not obligated nor able to provide separation
services in any vfr environment, particualrly on the gorund at Oshkosh.
And the TBM is taking a risk when it taxi's but that risk is no
different
then the same risk you take when you taxi. I've seen little kids run out
in
front of various aircraft, fortunately none I've seen were hurt. But by
some
of this logic put forth we should outlaw kids and any airplane that
might
run them over. Yes we have rules to help reduce those risks, but that
said
all they do is reduce the risk, they never prevent entirely.
The two airplanes did not, and apparently could not see each other, that
is
the cause of most aircraft collisions and to date no rule has ever fixed
that. I'm pretty certain no new rules will help things any.
If you are little and worried get a rearview mirror.
Or better yet give up flying, stop driving, avoid earthquake and volcano
country and don't eat at McDonald's any more.
The bottom line is that our emotional response to tragic events in
aviation
is to cast a cause out there in the hopes of future prevention. This is
one
of those cases where the accident chain wasn't broken and so it occured.
But
any of the proposed fixes just make room for alternative chains without
really reducing the overall risk much.
You want to talk about safety, let's talk about the fact that an hour
before
this happended the controllers were launching aircraft into 35 kt
tailwind
takeoffs with rain in an effort to oblige the many who wanted to depart
pre-hurricane. They finally got it and closed the airport. But that
closure
put even more pressure on the limited time slot for departures
pre-airshow
after the WX system passed. So guess what, it's partly God's fault,
therefore I would suggest we write a rule forbidding God from having
short
term hurricanes at Oshkosh.
And while we're at it the simplest fix would be to not allow RV's to
come to
Oshkosh as that will eliminate about 2/3 of the overall traffic which
will
greatly reduce the number of accidents.
In fact there's some good data to support this fix as RV's (and
Bonanzas)
tend to be involved in many of the incidents that happen at Oshkosh.
So, yes I feel horrible about this, as I do about the Europa, and the
Cub,
and the few others who perished coming to or from Oshkosh. And I feel
bad
about those who perished just flying that week as I do about the
estimated
98000 people who die each year from boo boos that happen in US
hospitals.
That's almost twice the number of people who die in auto accidents and
I'll
bet most of you didn't even know that statistic.
Get a life, be happy that you are alive, go fly your airplane and
celebrate
those who can longer join us for that ride.
W
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: Oshkosh accident - Caution, on my Soapboxt |
--> RV-List message posted by: "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer@hotmail.com>
The taxiway is wide enough for a flight of 15 RVs to taxi staggard (side by
side). How wide are we to make it?
Everything we do in VFR flying is SEE and AVOID. Take all the space you
need behind other aircraft so that you can taxi without hitting someone. DO
NOT let others tell you to get closer than you want.
I purchased my REAR VIEW Mirror from Pep Boys over 4 years ago.
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
1,932 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA
http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com
----Original Message Follows----
>From another lister:
> Obviously, the large tail dragger pilot also has full responsibility
> to taxi safely, but the "system" should make every effort to put him
> in a situation where that is possible. If the taxi way is too narrow
> to allow S-turns, then the only way a large tail dragger can taxi
> safely is with some outside assistance.
This argument, on its face, makes perfect sense - especially in light of
the possibility of "saving lives." Again I urge caution, I believe this to
be the first step down a slippery slope, at the bottom of which you'll
find Pandora's Box. I, for one, do not wish the system to do my job for
me, because the system rarely makes an effort to do anything, other
than to tell me what I cant do. Do you see the "system' making the
taxiways wider in response to this accident?
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: Oshkosh accident - Caution, on my Soapboxt |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dave Johnson" <rv@discursion.com>
You've summarized my thoughts perfectly. Nicely stated. Slippery slope indeed,
and PIC responsibility is where me must stop the buck. It really is that simple.
More rules are not the solution...obeying the cardinal rule *is*.
Dave
Do not archive.
>
> Making a mandatory rule (for that can be the ?system's? only response) to
> deal specifically with this situation may very well prevent its
> reoccurrence, but at what cost? We are all (those certificated at least)
> qualified pilots, qualified to operate an aircraft from chocks out to
> chocks in. We already have a plethora of rules whose boundaries we are
> obliged to remain within - do we really want more?
>
> The counter-argument is, "It's only one rule, and it just might save
> someone's life." Those making this counter-argument seek to trump all
> future arguments by making potential opponents seem callous and uncaring
> about human life.
>
> One of flying?s biggest draws is a marvelous sense of freedom. Part of
> that sense of freedom comes from feeling the pride of accomplishment. It's
> knowing we are engaging in a risky endeavor, risks we overcome through the
> effective application of skills learned in training. Our training allows
> us to bend an unruly aero-machine to our will. How long until "...just one
> rule..." becomes too many rules? In Mexico one can't fly his or her
> aircraft VFR at night. The Government thinks it's too risky...
>
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=53478#53478
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: microfiber cloth? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Mersek" <1rv6flyer@internet49.com>
Microfiber cloths? 24 for $9.39 at Costco; I just bought more today.
--Larry Mersek
RV-6 flying
----- Original Message -----
From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder@sausen.net>
Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 8:08 AM
Subject: RE: RV-List: microfiber cloth?
| --> RV-List message posted by: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)"
<rvbuilder@sausen.net>
|
| You can always Google it or go to
| http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microfiber. You can get Microfiber cloths
| from pretty much anywhere including Wallyworld and Lowes Depot.
|
| Michael Sausen
| RV-10 #352 Buildus Interuptus due to moving
| Do Not Archive
|
|
| -----Original Message-----
| From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
| [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
| bertrv6@highstream.net
| Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 9:12 AM
| To: rv-list@matronics.com
| Subject: RV-List: microfiber cloth?
|
| --> RV-List message posted by: bertrv6@highstream.net
|
|
| Hi:
|
| I have been reading, the postings about micro fiber cloth, to clean
| windshield..
|
| Can some one explain what is a micro fiber cloth, and where can I buy
| them?
|
| I have use a regular small wash cloth, from Walt-mart...also the red
| type you buy at auto store...
|
| Am I using wrong kind...?
|
| Bert
|
| rv6a
|
| do not archive
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Message 40
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| Subject: | Flap actuator to rod end - locking |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Albert Gardner" <ibspud@adelphia.net>
The safety wire solution is not the only way to solve this problem but it is
fairly simple to do. When my rod end came loose, I was on final. Going from
half to full flaps, there was a bang, and all at once I had no flaps. Bit of
a surprise.
Albert Gardner
RV-9A N872RV
Yuma, AZ
Message 41
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| Subject: | Re: Flap actuator to rod end - locking |
--> RV-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming@sigecom.net>
The safety wire approach is the way of construction on the newer RV7/A
models. I guess it is one of the improvements learned from the 6. Find
someone with a 7 kit and take a look at their builder's book. Larry in
Indiana do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Seiders" <seiders@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 3:09 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Flap actuator to rod end - locking
> --> RV-List message posted by: Richard Seiders <seiders@bellsouth.net>
>
> The safety wire is new since my 6A.. Rod end loosened one time about 300
> hrs ago. I put some loctite on it and no problem since.
> DICK
>
Message 42
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| Subject: | Re: Oshkosh accident - Caution, on my Soapbox |
There is an additional thing that is troubling me. The avenger pilot
apparently *Thought* he was following the tundra. At some point when he
turned onto the taxiway, should he not have made a mental note of who he
was
actually following? Not to be confused with flaming the pilot, as things
obviously happen and the focus is to prevent it from happening again.
Also, while the controllers in the tower are very busy, could a person be
placed in the tower having good visibility over the taxiways to watch. A
re
the airplanes on the taxiways monitoring the ground frequency? I have no
t
flown into Osh, but have attended. I do realize how big this event is.
These are just questions. If someone was watching from the tower, they
most likely couldn't have seen every movement all the time, but when seei
ng
a large tailwheel aircraft following a small (RV) type aircraft, a simple
Avenger pilot, confirm you can see the RV aircraft in front of you" might
have gone along way.
Tim
-------Original Message-------
From: linn Walters
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Oshkosh accident - Caution, on my Soapbox
Charlie Kuss wrote:
snipped
Obviously, the large tail dragger pilot also has full responsibility
to taxi safely, but the "system" should make every effort to put him
in a situation where that is possible. If the taxi way is too narrow
to allow S-turns, then the only way a large tail dragger can taxi
safely is with some outside assistance. The Avenger pilot was put in
a very difficult situation. Once he was marshalled onto a narrow
taxi way with no wing walkers, he had two choices: press on and hope
for the best, or shut down and become a road block. He gambled with
option 1, and he lost.
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
Kevin,
He could have asked his wife to get out and act as a spotter. He had a
choice.
Just playing devils advocate
Charlie Kuss
Good point Charlie. There were lots of things that COULD have been done
=2E..
=2E but none were. However, I would have loved to hear what she said aft
er he
made her get out and walk!!! :-D
Linn
do not archive
Message 43
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| Subject: | Re: GPS & Autopilot Setup |
--> RV-List message posted by: FLYaDIVE@aol.com
In a message dated 8/8/06 11:49:31 AM Eastern Daylight Time, sbuc@hiwaay.net
writes:
> the versions of AWM that I tried with the Trio did not provide
> the standard NMEA protocol that the EZ-Pilot requires. I understand
> there was considerable effort on the part of Trio to convince Control
> Vision to standardize the NMEA output of AWM but it seems that may not
> have happened.
>
> Sam Buchanan
> http://thervjournal.com
=========================
Sam:
What type of output does AWM use? The three I a familiar with are:
RS-232
IEEE
and the
NEMA versions. There are a few versions of NEMA.
The next question is what input does the Trio require?
Barry
"Chop'd Liver"
"Show them the first time, correct them the second time, kick them the third
time."
Yamashiada
Message 44
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| Subject: | GPS & Autopilot Setup |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Albert Gardner" <ibspud@adelphia.net>
Well, the plot thickens. Talking to AWM leads me to believe that they think
they are putting out the "right stuff." Trio thinks they will work if the
"right stuff" comes in. I'm taking the whole shebang over to El Cajon (Trio
Avionics) tomorrow to see if they can find a problem. Trio is great to work
with so I am very optimistic.
Albert Gardner
Yuma, AZ
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of FLYaDIVE@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 5:57 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: GPS & Autopilot Setup
--> RV-List message posted by: FLYaDIVE@aol.com
In a message dated 8/8/06 11:49:31 AM Eastern Daylight Time, sbuc@hiwaay.net
writes:
> the versions of AWM that I tried with the Trio did not provide
> the standard NMEA protocol that the EZ-Pilot requires. I understand
> there was considerable effort on the part of Trio to convince Control
> Vision to standardize the NMEA output of AWM but it seems that may not
> have happened.
> Sam Buchanan
> http://thervjournal.com
Message 45
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| Subject: | Re: GPS & Autopilot Setup |
--> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
FLYaDIVE@aol.com wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: FLYaDIVE@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 8/8/06 11:49:31 AM Eastern Daylight Time, sbuc@hiwaay.net
> writes:
>
>> the versions of AWM that I tried with the Trio did not provide
>> the standard NMEA protocol that the EZ-Pilot requires. I understand
>> there was considerable effort on the part of Trio to convince Control
>> Vision to standardize the NMEA output of AWM but it seems that may not
>> have happened.
>>
>> Sam Buchanan
>> http://thervjournal.com
> =========================
> Sam:
>
> What type of output does AWM use? The three I a familiar with are:
> RS-232
> IEEE
> and the
> NEMA versions. There are a few versions of NEMA.
> The next question is what input does the Trio require?
>
> Barry
> "Chop'd Liver"
Barry, you must have missed the update I sent out shortly after posting
the above message. Trio informed me that they have had success getting
the latest version of AWM to drive the EZ-Pilot. I suggest you contact
Trio if you need more specific info on their system.
Both AWM and the EZ-Pilot use NMEA data. I have had success driving the
EZ-Pilot with a Lowrance Airmap 100 and Airmap 1000. Fellow RVers in the
area also get excellent results with Garmin units. Apparently earlier
versions of AWM did not send all the sentences of the NMEA data or the
sentences were in non-standard form. Since the guys at Trio are very
particular about assuring their unit is flying only on good data, the
EZ-Pilot filters would reject non-standard data protocol.
Sam Buchanan
Message 46
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| Subject: | Re: Oshkosh accident - Caution, on my Soapboxt |
--> RV-List message posted by: gert <gert.v@sbcglobal.net>
But let's not forget we (the volunteers) WERE there. anytime the avenger
pilot felt unsafe, he could have stopped and waved any of the volunteers
along Papa and stated his problem and his request.
it would not be the first pilot and will not be the last pilot asking
for help. I myself have helped warbird pilots, as well as others, along
Papa who needed space, direction, urge to do a run-up then and there,
etc. All u have to do is ask and we will do our best to secure the area
for u.
And papa seems to get smaller and smaller as this thread moves along,
the main gear of a super conny fits on it, so did the B24 and the B17 as
well as the lancaster gear without running off in the grass on either
side, just to put width in perspective. The avenger is not that wide
compared to the above planes. Yes i know, they don't have to S-turn,
just pointing out other warbird tail draggers can and do on papa taxiway.
RV6 Flyer wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer@hotmail.com>
>
>
> The taxiway is wide enough for a flight of 15 RVs to taxi staggard
> (side by side). How wide are we to make it?
>
> Everything we do in VFR flying is SEE and AVOID. Take all the space
> you need behind other aircraft so that you can taxi without hitting
> someone. DO NOT let others tell you to get closer than you want.
>
> I purchased my REAR VIEW Mirror from Pep Boys over 4 years ago.
>
>
> Gary A. Sobek
> "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
> 1,932 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA
> http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com
>
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
>
> >From another lister:
>
> > Obviously, the large tail dragger pilot also has full responsibility
> > to taxi safely, but the "system" should make every effort to put him
> > in a situation where that is possible. If the taxi way is too narrow
> > to allow S-turns, then the only way a large tail dragger can taxi
> > safely is with some outside assistance.
>
> This argument, on its face, makes perfect sense - especially in light of
> the possibility of "saving lives." Again I urge caution, I believe
> this to
> be the first step down a slippery slope, at the bottom of which you'll
> find Pandora's Box. I, for one, do not wish the system to do my job for
> me, because the system rarely makes an effort to do anything, other
> than to tell me what I cant do. Do you see the "system' making the
> taxiways wider in response to this accident?
>
>
--
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Message 47
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No biting to it if you pull the power back, put full flaps down and force
both doors open (works better if there are two people in the plane, the
plane will literally fall flat out of the sky. Air speed will drop
drastically( may be because the static system reference is screwed up
because the doors are forced open) VSI falls out the bottom and altimeter
will verify this. Just make sure that you keep plenty for forward pressure
on the yoke, and give yourself plenty of altitude to recover. You can
also set up turns by using the doors at cruse speed, although at slower
speeds the airplane will exhibits sever adverse yaw. When your young and
foolish and have an airplane at your disposal and extra time, you tend to
push the envelop a little. Shortest take off and landing contest were just
about an every day event, Open doors will help slow down a plane that is on
the ground..Never did any damage to the plane tko.
Bob Perkinson
Hendersonville, TN.
RV9 N658RP Reserved
If nothing changes
Nothing changes
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of MLWynn@aol.com
Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 11:28 PM
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: doors off?
In a message dated 8/7/2006 9:25:13 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
bobperk@bellsouth.net writes:
do know that if you open both doors at the same time on a 150 with the
flaps down you go down a whole lot faster than normal. You can fall out
of
the sky almost straight down, no forward air speed flat as a pancake. I
know.
Alright, I'll bite.
How do you know this? Details?
Regards,
Michael Wynn
RV-8, Wings
San Ramon, California
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