Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:00 AM - Re: Tail lifting during full power static test (JOHN STARN)
2. 05:26 AM - Re: Canopy care question (glen matejcek)
3. 05:53 AM - Re: Anti Aviation Bill in Jacksonville (glen matejcek)
4. 08:21 AM - Re: Anti Aviation Bill in Jacksonville (Doc Custer)
5. 08:35 AM - Re: Re: Aluminum control stick option (Bill Boyd)
6. 08:46 AM - Bingelis Books (Richard Dudley)
7. 09:07 AM - Re: Bingelis Books (davcor@comcast.net)
8. 09:21 AM - Electric Flaps option (Tim Bryan)
9. 09:33 AM - Re: Looking for AN816-4-6D (Gerry Filby)
10. 10:18 AM - Re: Electric Flaps option (Ralph E. Capen)
11. 10:31 AM - Re: Electric Flaps option (Tim Bryan)
12. 10:35 AM - Re: Electric Flaps option (Sam Buchanan)
13. 11:02 AM - Re: Electric Flaps option (Jeff Point)
14. 11:02 AM - Re: Electric Flaps option (Ron Lee)
15. 11:21 AM - Re: Electric Flaps option (Tim Bryan)
16. 11:58 AM - Re: Electric Flaps option (Ralph E. Capen)
17. 12:42 PM - Re: Electric Flaps option (Sam Buchanan)
18. 01:27 PM - Re: Electric Flaps option (Tim Bryan)
19. 04:10 PM - [Fw: Bingelis Books] (Richard Dudley)
20. 05:29 PM - Denver (Steve Glasgow)
21. 06:12 PM - Re: Electric Flaps option (FLYaDIVE@aol.com)
22. 06:47 PM - Re: Electric Flaps option (Larry Pardue)
23. 07:07 PM - Electric Flaps option (James H Nelson)
24. 07:20 PM - Re: Electric Flaps option (Dale Walter)
25. 07:25 PM - Re: Electric Flaps option (Kevin Horton)
26. 07:34 PM - Re: Electric Flaps option (Charlie England)
27. 07:41 PM - Re: Electric Flaps option (Sam Buchanan)
28. 07:53 PM - Re: Denver (Ron Lee)
29. 08:04 PM - Re: Electric Flaps option (Larry Pardue)
30. 08:09 PM - Re: Electric Flaps option (Doug Gray)
31. 08:38 PM - Re: Electric Flaps option (Doug Gray)
32. 09:10 PM - Re: Electric Flaps option (Sherman Butler)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Tail lifting during full power static test |
60# in the baggage compartment (tied down of course) vs 230# at a much
longer moment. BUT your right the rope (we use a chain) could break, the
tie down could fail BUT not even our Rocket is going to lift an
additional 230# because at the first "forward" motion the power would be
at an idle.
Chuck Wentworth's TBM could but that's another story.
We "normally" have a third person standing in full view of the test
pilot and the "ballast". As the power slowly comes up, the third person
is watching the "ballast" ( who moves his head up & down YES to continue
or side to side NO to stop) & the tail wheel, anything happens & the
test pilot gets the slash, cut throat signal. Nothing is absolute,
(except death & taxes) 100% fool proof but we believe that our method is
well within the acceptable area of risk. BUT your mileage may vary.
You would be surprised how many helping, knowledgeable people gather
when we do a test runup. KABONG. Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: JhnstnIII@aol.com
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2006 8:27 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Tail lifting during full power static test
"Did you're engine supplier not run your engine in the test
stand before delivering it to you ? It should be marked in the
log book, I think. I.E. do you really need to run it for a
whole hour ? Aerosport ran my engine for a total of 45 mins
before it was delivered - so apart from a short short "shake
down" run and some taxi tests - its next run will be the wild
blue yonder."
It was run at the factory, but now it is installed in a new airplane
with new fuel lines, engine mount, exhaust system, etc. I would not
have felt comfortable signing the form without running it in its current
installation and knowing it would go to full power in takeoff/climb
attitude.
Re the question of how to tie down the tail securely, all I can say is
I used an airport tie down that looked solidly anchored with a rope in
good condition. I tied it around the tail spring with three loops and
two half hitches. I also added about 60 pounds to the baggage
compartment.
I would not want anyone hanging on the fuselage as some have
mentioned. That sounds like asking for trouble.
LeRoy Johnston in Ohio.
Message 2
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| Subject: | RE: Canopy care question |
--> RV-List message posted by: "glen matejcek" <aerobubba@earthlink.net>
RE: I have some drops of epoxy, around the lower end of the canopy...
...How can one remove these? ...without
>damaging the plexi glass..
>
>Thanks,
>
>Bert
>rv6a
Hi Bert-
First, is the epoxy low enough that the skirt will cover it? If so, a
little damage will be out of sight.
Also, We had a change in plans laying up my one-piece canopy skirt. We
switched from the original plan of using PVA as a release agent to using a
wax. We spaced and didn't wax the line between two rows of tape, and a
little epoxy got down to the plex. As this plex wasn't scuffed to improve
adhesion, a little force applied parallel to the surface of the plex with a
finger nail generally makes it pop right off. For the rare case where that
is inadequate, or I suddenly have visions of epoxy splinters under my
nails, I use the SIDE of a dental pick to apply the force. No damage
occurs.
As ever, YMMV, and I hope this helps-
glen matejcek
aerobubba@earthlink.net
Message 3
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| Subject: | RE: Anti Aviation Bill in Jacksonville |
--> RV-List message posted by: "glen matejcek" <aerobubba@earthlink.net>
Hi Brian-
> I would appreciate it if you could pass the link around to any other
>homebuilders you know and contribute if you can. Thanks.
>
>Brian Kraut
>
>brian@jaxairplane.com
I've sent the link and your note to our chapter newsletter editor.
glen matejcek
aerobubba@earthlink.net
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Anti Aviation Bill in Jacksonville |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Doc Custer" <ddcuster@wmv-co.us>
I will include your email in EAA Chapter 1422 September newsletter (I am
the editor). Will that be soon enough?
do no archive
Doc Custer
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut@engalt.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2006 8:54 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Anti Aviation Bill in Jacksonville
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut@engalt.com>
>
> I want to thank everyone that has helped me with this battle and sent
> emails
> of support. I really appreciate it.
>
> A lot of people have asked how they can help. I have set up a legal
> defence
> fund at http://www.jaxairplane.com/contribute.htm. EAA is trying to get
> the
> ordinance changed, but they can't directly help me with my upcoming court
> case. I would appreciate it if you could pass the link around to any
> other
> homebuilders you know and contribute if you can. Thanks.
>
> Brian Kraut
>
> brian@jaxairplane.com
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Aluminum control stick option |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bill Boyd" <sportav8r@gmail.com>
Aluminum substitution sounds easier :-)
-Stormy
do not archive
On 8/17/06, PSPRV6A@aol.com <PSPRV6A@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
> I lightened the passenger side steel contol stick about 35% by tapering
> the OD with a lathe. Easy to do in my shop with a good lathe, I would not
> trust it to anyone else! A way to save a number of ounces.
> You don't have to be crazy to be an engineer, but it does help!
> Bulding RV6A
> with son Eric, done soon. Paul S. Petersen
>
>
Message 6
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--> RV-List message posted by: Richard Dudley <rhdudley1@bellsouth.net>
Hi Listers,
I have the four Classic Bingelis books: Engines, Sportplane Construction
Techniques, Firewall Forward and The Sportplane Builder. They are in
mint condition. They sell for about $20 each or $80 for the set. You can
have the set for $50.
Please contact me offline.
Regards,
Richard Dudley
-6A flying
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Bingelis Books |
Richard,
I'll take the set if you still have 'em
Dave Cordner
davcor@comcast.net
RV7 - Fuse...
-------------- Original message --------------
From: Richard Dudley <rhdudley1@bellsouth.net>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Richard Dudley
>
> Hi Listers,
>
> I have the four Classic Bingelis books: Engines, Sportplane Construction
> Techniques, Firewall Forward and The Sportplane Builder. They are in
> mint condition. They sell for about $20 each or $80 for the set. You can
> have the set for $50.
> Please contact me offline.
>
> Regards,
>
> Richard Dudley
> -6A flying
>
>
>
>
>
>
<html><body>
<DIV>Richard,</DIV>
<DIV>I'll take the set if you still have 'em</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Dave Cordner</DIV>
<DIV><A href="mailto:davcor@comcast.net">davcor@comcast.net</A></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>RV7 - Fuse...</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
</body
>
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre></body></html>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Electric Flaps option |
Ok listers, here is my questions.
I have been building my -6 for 16 years now but finalizing the assembly a
t
the airport now. I am pretty close but finding the need to change/ updat
e
some things. The tailwheel which I previously posted about needed to be
changed to full swivel. It did take me some time to mess with this, but
I
will be happier.
The flaps is the next question. I was pretty set on having manual flaps,
but beings I put a quadrant in I would like to eventually after flying ha
ve
a arm rest in the center. Unfortunately the manual flaps make this
difficult. After flying with Mike Seager using the electric flaps, I
figured it wasn't so bad. So, here's my questions:
Is changing the flaps to electric easier using the existing weldment?
What would be the disadvantages to using it?
How does the replacement weldment mount in the aircraft?
I understand the RV-10 has an electric switch that is position controlled
,
Could I use this? In the trainer we just held the switch down for 4 seco
nds
to get half flaps. This has always been my complaint about electric flap
s.
I don't want to hold a switch for a count. Sounds like the RV-10 has a f
ix
for this.
How big a job am I looking at to change this over? I am trying to figure
out weather to go ahead and do it now or get flying first. Don't want to
o
many more delays.
Thanks as always for any input
Tim Bryan
RV-6
N616TB
Message 9
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|
| Subject: | Re: Looking for AN816-4-6D |
--> RV-List message posted by: Gerry Filby <gerf@gerf.com>
Here's a picture of the transducer. It does indeed have -6
pipe fittings. The fitting in the foreground is -4. Phew,
thought I was losing it.
http://www.gerf.com/images/fuel_flow.jpg
g
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Gerry Filby <gerf@gerf.com>
>
>
> Thanks all for your comments - Dan is right about the fittings
> between the fuel controller and divider (thanks for the
> correcting the nomenclature Dan) the tubing is terminated with
> -4 flare fittings. However, the transducer I have (a red brick
> about 1 1/2" cubed), I'm pretty sure has 3/8 NPT female pipe
> fittings (I need to double check this tonight when I get to the
> hangar). I think the intent of the manufacturer of the
> transducer was that it would generally go between the high
> pressure side of the engine driven fuel pump and the fuel
> controller - that's a -6 size hose. Hence the need to reduce
> the size from a -6 to a -4.
>
> Hopefully I haven't been spinning everyone's wheels ... report
> back tomorrow.
>
> Thanks all again.
>
> g
>
> >
> > --> RV-List message posted by: <chaztuna@adelphia.net>
> >
> > Dan,
> > Exactly! #6 implies 3/8" in regards to AN tubing. However,
> > 3/8" NPT is huge. My transducer is also 1/4" NPT. I figured that
> > he was confusing definitions.
> > Charlie Kuss
> >
> > ---- Dan Checkoway <dan@rvproject.com> wrote:
> > > Charlie,
> > >
> > > Pretty sure Gerry's transducer has 1/4" NPT female "ports" on it.
> > >
> > > On an injected 360, despite the fuel supply hose being a -6, the metered
fuel line (servo to flow divider) is just a -4...at least on every installation
I've ever seen.
> > >
> > > )_( Dan
> > > do not archive
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Charlie Kuss
> > > To: rv-list@matronics.com
> > > Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 8:04 PM
> > > Subject: Re: RV-List: Looking for AN816-4-6D
> > >
> > >
> > > At 01:59 PM 8/16/2006, you wrote:
> > >
> > > --> RV-List message posted by: Gerry Filby <gerf@gerf.com>
> > >
> > >
> > > I'm trying to install my Advanced Flight Systems fuel totalizer
> > > between the fuel controller and the distribution block. The
> > > hoses are AN4 and the totalizer has #6 pipe fittings - so I
> > > think that should be AN816-4-6D. Neither Spruce nor Wicks
> > > lists them - any leads on where I can get it ?
> > >
> > > __g__
> > >
> > > Gerry,
> > > I'm a bit confused by your question. By definition, an AN816 fitting is
AN male tubing (flare) on one end and male pipe thread (NPT) on the other. You
have an AN4 hose, so you need #4 tube fitting on one end. What do you mean
by #6 pipe fitting? Pipe fitting is either 1/16", 1/8", 1/4", 3/8" or 1/2" NPT
or NPT. Do you need 1/4" NPT or 3/8" NPT?
> > > Charlie Kuss
> > > PS, Why would a fuel line for an RV only be AN4?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
--
__g__
==========================================================
Gerry Filby gerf@gerf.com
Tel: 415 203 9177
----------------------------------------------------------
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Electric Flaps option |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen@earthlink.net>
Tim,
The weldment is a different one for electric. It will get in the way of a future
armrest too.
I'm relocating the 'electric' actuator arm to the right side - next to the flap
arm and will put the motor over there too (been done before - check the archives)
to make room for my arm rest / entry foot step.
Van's has a switch which allows for nice operation...down once for 10, again for
20 again for full, up once to retract.
Ralph
RV6AQB N822AR @ N06 Firewall foreward - then wings/flaps......
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Tim Bryan
>Sent: Aug 18, 2006 12:19 PM
>To: rv-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: Electric Flaps option
>
>
>Ok listers, here is my questions.
>
>I have been building my -6 for 16 years now butfinalizing the assembly at the
airport now. I am pretty close but finding the need to change/ update some things.
The tailwheel which I previously posted about needed to be changed to full
swivel. It did take me some time to mess with this, but I will be happier.
>
>The flaps is the next question. I was pretty set on having manual flaps, but beings
I put a quadrant in I would like to eventually after flying have a arm rest
in the center. Unfortunately the manual flaps make this difficult. After flying
with Mike Seager using the electric flaps, I figured it wasn't so bad. So,
here's my questions:
>
>Is changing the flaps to electric easier using the existing weldment?
>What would be the disadvantages to using it?
>How does the replacement weldment mount in the aircraft?
>I understand the RV-10 has an electric switch that is position controlled, Could
I use this? In the trainer we just held the switch down for 4 seconds to get
half flaps. This has always been my complaint about electric flaps. I don't
want to hold a switch for a count. Sounds like the RV-10 has a fix for this.
>How big a job am I looking at to change this over? I am trying to figure out weather
to go ahead and do it now or get flying first. Don't want too many more
delays.
>
>Thanks as always for any input
>Tim Bryan
>RV-6
>N616TB
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Electric Flaps option |
Hi Ralph,
Thanks for the comments. I am not sure how the electric gets in the way
for
an armrest. I thought only the flap handle (manual) needing to move up o
r
down would be in the way. What am I missing? Also Van's catalog shows t
wo
different conversion kits. One which uses the existing weldment and anot
her
kit with the original weldment used for electric. I am not sure which wa
y
would be the best or how the other type mounts.
I love that switch idea, hope I could use that.
Tim
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen@earthlink.net>
The weldment is a different one for electric. It will get in the way of
a
future armrest too.
I'm relocating the 'electric' actuator arm to the right side - next to th
e
flap arm and will put the motor over there too (been done before - check
the
archives) to make room for my arm rest / entry foot step.
Van's has a switch which allows for nice operation...down once for 10, ag
ain
for 20 again for full, up once to retract.
Ralph
RV6AQB N822AR @ N06 Firewall foreward - then wings/flaps......
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Electric Flaps option |
--> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
Tim Bryan wrote:
<snip>
> The flaps is the next question. I was pretty set on having manual flaps,
> but beings I put a quadrant in I would like to eventually after flying have
> a arm rest in the center. Unfortunately the manual flaps make this
> difficult. After flying with Mike Seager using the electric flaps, I
> figured it wasn't so bad. So, here's my questions:
> Is changing the flaps to electric easier using the existing weldment?
>
> What would be the disadvantages to using it?
>
> How does the replacement weldment mount in the aircraft?
>
> I understand the RV-10 has an electric switch that is position controlled,
> Could I use this? In the trainer we just held the switch down for 4 seconds
> to get half flaps. This has always been my complaint about electric flaps.
> I don't want to hold a switch for a count. Sounds like the RV-10 has a fix
> for this.
>
> How big a job am I looking at to change this over? I am trying to figure
> out weather to go ahead and do it now or get flying first. Don't want too
> many more delays.
Here is a link to notes on the manual to electric flap conversion in my
RV-6:
http://thervjournal.com/fuse7.html#flaps
If you can weld or have access to someone that can, the manual torque
tube can be readily modified. Otherwise, it would be easier to buy the
arm from Vans.
In my opinion the conversion is one of the best mods you can make to
your RV-6 (full-swivel tailwheel was a good one, too). Total shop time
for the mode was about 18 hrs. I find it easier to make a quick glance
over the shoulder to check flap deployment rather than counting.
Electric flap operation quickly becomes intuitive as you sense the
impact of flaps on the airplane attitude/speed and the whole "counting"
thing becomes moot. I suggest you make the mod now while you are in
building mode and so you can get accustomed to electric flaps from the
get-go.
Go for it!
Sam Buchanan
Message 13
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|
| Subject: | Re: Electric Flaps option |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jeff Point <jpoint@mindspring.com>
Sam did this a few years ago and write it up on his website:
http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal/fuse7.html#flaps
The device used in the 10 to position the flaps is available from Vans
for all other RVs as well:
http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi?ident=1155923952-384-594&browse=electrical&product=fps
Jeff Point
RV-6 flying
RV-8 preview plans in hand...
Milwaukee
>*
>*
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Electric Flaps option |
--> RV-List message posted by: Ron Lee <ronlee@pcisys.net>
>Can't answer you questions but as long as it is possible to retrofit
this change just go fly and wait until winter to make the change.
Ron Lee
do not archive
Message 15
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|
| Subject: | Re: Electric Flaps option |
Sam,
Pictures are worth a lot. Thanks for directing me there. The one thing
I
notice is the flap tube is now mounted on the back side the side mounts.
Does this require any reworking of the mount area? Also is the modified
weldment the same thing as the weldment if purchased from Vans?
Thanks for the help.
Tim
-------Original Message-------
--> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
<snip>
>>Here is a link to notes on the manual to electric flap conversion in my
>>RV-6:
>>http://thervjournal.com/fuse7.html#flaps
>>If you can weld or have access to someone that can, the manual torque
>>tube can be readily modified. Otherwise, it would be easier to buy the
>>arm from Vans.
>>In my opinion the conversion is one of the best mods you can make to
>>your RV-6 (full-swivel tailwheel was a good one, too). Total shop time
>>for the mode was about 18 hrs. I find it easier to make a quick glance
>>over the shoulder to check flap deployment rather than counting.
>>Electric flap operation quickly becomes intuitive as you sense the
>>impact of flaps on the airplane attitude/speed and the whole "counting"
>>thing becomes moot. I suggest you make the mod now while you are in
>>building mode and so you can get accustomed to electric flaps from the
>>get-go.
>>Go for it!
>>Sam Buchanan
Message 16
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|
| Subject: | Re: Electric Flaps option |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen@earthlink.net>
Tim,
You should be able to use the switch if you're using electric flaps - there's a
part that attaches to the flap motor.
I don't know about using a manula actuator for electric operation...I do remember
that I bought my QB with elec flaps and there were a few parts that stick out
forward into the 'armrest' area. I'll try to remember my elec flap instructions
this weekend and zap them to you so you can see what you're getting into.
I agree with Sam do it now - I would also suggest looking at how it operates to
determine what impact it will have on your armrest. IMHO it's easier to get
an elec flap weldment than search out a welder - although I'll have to do that
for my mod regardless.
Ralph
-----Original Message-----
>From: Tim Bryan <flyrv6@bryantechnology.com>
>Sent: Aug 18, 2006 1:28 PM
>To: rv-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Electric Flaps option
>
>Hi Ralph,
>
>
>
>Thanks for the comments. I am not sure how the electric gets in the way for
>an armrest. I thought only the flap handle (manual) needing to move up or
>down would be in the way. What am I missing? Also Van's catalog shows two
>different conversion kits. One which uses the existing weldment and another
>kit with the original weldment used for electric. I am not sure which way
>would be the best or how the other type mounts.
>
>
>I love that switch idea, hope I could use that.
>
>
>
>Tim
>
>
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen@earthlink.net>
>
>
>
>
>
>The weldment is a different one for electric. It will get in the way of a
>future armrest too.
>
>I'm relocating the 'electric' actuator arm to the right side - next to the
>flap arm and will put the motor over there too (been done before - check the
>archives) to make room for my arm rest / entry foot step.
>
>Van's has a switch which allows for nice operation...down once for 10, again
>for 20 again for full, up once to retract.
>
>
>
>Ralph
>
>RV6AQB N822AR @ N06 Firewall foreward - then wings/flaps......
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Electric Flaps option |
--> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
Tim Bryan wrote:
> Sam,
>
>
>
> Pictures are worth a lot. Thanks for directing me there. The one
> thing I notice is the flap tube is now mounted on the back side the
> side mounts. Does this require any reworking of the mount area? Also
> is the modified weldment the same thing as the weldment if purchased
> from Vans?
Tim, it's been several years since I did the mod so some of the details
have escaped me. I don't recall anything more than just moving the tube
blocks to the backside of the bulkhead. Seems I used the same bolt holes.
The modified torque tube will end up being the same as a new electric
tube. The entire process is well documented in the instructions that
come with the kit and the welding required is simple, just a matter of
welding on new ends for the rod end bearings after you shorten the arms.
My hangar-mate has electric flaps in his RV-6A and also has an armrest.
Seems to me the only reason some might move the motor to the side of the
plane is so the storage compartment in the armrest could be bigger. I
considered putting the motor on the side but decided it wasn't worth the
effort of modding the mod. :-)
Sam Buchanan
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Electric Flaps option |
Hi Sam,
Do Not Archive
I agree with you after looking at your pictures it appears there is room
for
an armrest. Mostly it isn't for storage for my purpose but a place to re
st
my arm while using the quadrant. Now is a good time for me besides the
extra time since the flaps are currently off, and the handle comes easily
out.
Thanks for your help
Tim
-------Original Message-------
From: Sam Buchanan
Subject: Re: RV-List: Electric Flaps option
--> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
Tim Bryan wrote:
> Sam,
>
>
> Pictures are worth a lot. Thanks for directing me there. The one
> thing I notice is the flap tube is now mounted on the back side the
> side mounts. Does this require any reworking of the mount area? Also
> is the modified weldment the same thing as the weldment if purchased
> from Vans?
Tim, it's been several years since I did the mod so some of the details
have escaped me. I don't recall anything more than just moving the tube
blocks to the backside of the bulkhead. Seems I used the same bolt holes.
The modified torque tube will end up being the same as a new electric
tube. The entire process is well documented in the instructions that
come with the kit and the welding required is simple, just a matter of
welding on new ends for the rod end bearings after you shorten the arms.
My hangar-mate has electric flaps in his RV-6A and also has an armrest.
Seems to me the only reason some might move the motor to the side of the
plane is so the storage compartment in the armrest could be bigger. I
considered putting the motor on the side but decided it wasn't worth the
effort of modding the mod. :-)
Sam Buchanan
==========
==========
==========
==========
==========
Message 19
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| Subject: | [Fwd: Bingelis Books] |
Hi RV Listers,
If anyone else is interested in the Bingelis books, I have sold mine to
the first responder. However, I am forwarding an e-mail from Doug
Gardner who says he also has the books for sale. Please contact him
directly, if you are interested in his Bingelis books.
Best regards,
Richard Dudey
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Bingelis Books
From: Douglas P. Gardner <seabearfl@netzero.net>
Hi Rickard,
I can't seem to be able to post to the RV list, but I also have a like
new set of Tony's books I'll sell for $50.00 + shipping. If you have
requests for another set, would you sent them this email.
Thanks Richard
Doug Gardner RV-8A FLYING 11.4 Hrs
Palm Harbor, Florida 34683
(727) 784-2600 Fax (727) 785-4767
Email : seabearfl@netzero.com
Message 20
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Steve Glasgow" <willfly@carolina.rr.com>
Any RVers in the Denver area? Im planning of flying my RV8 to Centennial
Airport arriving September 13 and need advice on possible temporary hangar
space and/or tie down.
Please contact off list.
Thanks
Steve Glasgow-Cappy
N123SG RV-8
Cappy's Toy
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Electric Flaps option |
--> RV-List message posted by: FLYaDIVE@aol.com
In a message dated 8/18/06 12:25:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
flyrv6@bryantechnology.com writes:
> I would like to eventually after flying have
> a arm rest in the center.
======================================
Tim:
The simple answer is DO NOT INSTAL A CENTER ARM REST!
1 - There is not enough room.
2 - It will be in the way when you Need to work under the panel ... And you
WILL need to work under the panel.
3 - Unless you and your copilot are 100 Lbs each There is not enough room.
Yo already will be bumping elbows and maybe even butts.
4 - The RV-6 does not need an arm rest, your legs are your arm rests.
5 - I have always preferred MANUAL FLAPS but both RV-6's I fly have electric
flaps. They are acceptable. But, I still prefer Manual.
Why? I lost all electric and could not deploy the flaps.
When was the last time you practiced a ZERO FLAP landing?
Did you hit the numbers?
How long did it take you to stop?
I read the spec sheet too and seen what they say about how SLOW the stall
speed is. I was also taught by a CFII/ATP that has 2000 Hours in RV-6's. His
answer was: "You want to fly 5 Kts over Stall on approach? Not with Me or My
Plane! 80 Kts over the fence!"
The RV-6 is not the most stable of planes at slow speeds and the flaps do
make it MUCH better on the final approach.
And before you guys light your flame throwers. I have about 250 Hours in
RV-6's, just don't expect them to fly like a C-150. My comments are REAL and you
have to keep it real if you don't want to bend any metal.
Barry
"Chop'd Liver"
"Show them the first time, correct them the second time, kick them the third
time."
Yamashiada
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Electric Flaps option |
--> RV-List message posted by: Larry Pardue <n5lp@warpdriveonline.com>
On Aug 18, 2006, at 7:11 PM, FLYaDIVE@aol.com wrote:
> . I was also taught by a CFII/ATP that has 2000 Hours in RV-6's. His
> answer was: "You want to fly 5 Kts over Stall on approach? Not
> with Me or My
> Plane! 80 Kts over the fence!"
Just goes to show that it doesn't take a whole lot of sense to become
a CFII/ATP. I don't believe in 5 kts over stall either, but 80 knots
over the fence is unsafe and stupid.
do not archive
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
RV-6 N441LP Flying
http://n5lp.net
Message 23
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| Subject: | Electric Flaps option |
--> RV-List message posted by: James H Nelson <rv9jim@juno.com>
Hi Tim,
The electric flaps are the way to go. I would use
"aircraftextras.com" flap controller if I was to do it again. I have the
three position system from Van's but it is a locked in system. The other
system is variable and you can set it where you want and how you want. I
spent a bit of time getting the fixed system to be "right". I would have
liked a simpler system and I think aircraft extras has that option.
Jim Nelson
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Electric Flaps option |
You might consider a small removable console. This works pretty well for us
(175 lbs and 120 lbs). picture attached. Do not archive.
Dale
----- Original Message -----
From: <FLYaDIVE@aol.com>
Sent: Friday, August 18, 2006 9:11 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Electric Flaps option
> --> RV-List message posted by: FLYaDIVE@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 8/18/06 12:25:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> flyrv6@bryantechnology.com writes:
>
>> I would like to eventually after flying have
>> a arm rest in the center.
> ======================================
> Tim:
>
> The simple answer is DO NOT INSTAL A CENTER ARM REST!
>
> 1 - There is not enough room.
> 2 - It will be in the way when you Need to work under the panel ... And
> you
> WILL need to work under the panel.
> 3 - Unless you and your copilot are 100 Lbs each There is not enough room.
> Yo already will be bumping elbows and maybe even butts.
> 4 - The RV-6 does not need an arm rest, your legs are your arm rests.
> 5 - I have always preferred MANUAL FLAPS but both RV-6's I fly have
> electric
> flaps. They are acceptable. But, I still prefer Manual.
> Why? I lost all electric and could not deploy the flaps.
> When was the last time you practiced a ZERO FLAP landing?
> Did you hit the numbers?
> How long did it take you to stop?
> I read the spec sheet too and seen what they say about how SLOW the stall
> speed is. I was also taught by a CFII/ATP that has 2000 Hours in RV-6's.
> His
> answer was: "You want to fly 5 Kts over Stall on approach? Not with Me or
> My
> Plane! 80 Kts over the fence!"
> The RV-6 is not the most stable of planes at slow speeds and the flaps do
> make it MUCH better on the final approach.
> And before you guys light your flame throwers. I have about 250 Hours in
> RV-6's, just don't expect them to fly like a C-150. My comments are REAL
> and you
> have to keep it real if you don't want to bend any metal.
>
>
> Barry
> "Chop'd Liver"
>
> "Show them the first time, correct them the second time, kick them the
> third
> time."
> Yamashiada
>
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Electric Flaps option |
--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
On 18 Aug 2006, at 21:46, Larry Pardue wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Larry Pardue <n5lp@warpdriveonline.com>
>
> On Aug 18, 2006, at 7:11 PM, FLYaDIVE@aol.com wrote:
>
>> . I was also taught by a CFII/ATP that has 2000 Hours in RV-6's.
>> His
>> answer was: "You want to fly 5 Kts over Stall on approach? Not
>> with Me or My
>> Plane! 80 Kts over the fence!"
>
> I don't believe in 5 kts over stall either, but 80 knots over the
> fence is unsafe and stupid.
>
> do not archive
Let's keep in mind that every aircraft has different airspeed system
errors. ASI instrument errors differ, and sometimes they can be
quite large (I've seen reports of ASIs with 10 mph instrument
errors). And, many builders install something other than Van's
static ports, which can affect the static system errors, producing
several knots of airspeed error. Static and pitot system leaks may
also affect airspeed system accuracy. Thus, 80 kt IAS in one
person's aircraft might be exactly the same CAS as 70 kt IAS in
someone else's aircraft.
Optimum indicated airspeeds for various phases of flight need to be
determined by each builder, and are specific to that aircraft.
Kevin Horton
Ottawa, Canada
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Electric Flaps option |
--> RV-List message posted by: Charlie England <ceengland@bellsouth.net>
FLYaDIVE@aol.com wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: FLYaDIVE@aol.com
>
>In a message dated 8/18/06 12:25:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
>flyrv6@bryantechnology.com writes:
>
>
>
>>I would like to eventually after flying have
>> a arm rest in the center.
>>
>>
>======================================
>Tim:
>
>The simple answer is DO NOT INSTAL A CENTER ARM REST!
>
>1 - There is not enough room.
>2 - It will be in the way when you Need to work under the panel ... And you
>WILL need to work under the panel.
>3 - Unless you and your copilot are 100 Lbs each There is not enough room.
>Yo already will be bumping elbows and maybe even butts.
>4 - The RV-6 does not need an arm rest, your legs are your arm rests.
>5 - I have always preferred MANUAL FLAPS but both RV-6's I fly have electric
>flaps. They are acceptable. But, I still prefer Manual.
>Why? I lost all electric and could not deploy the flaps.
>When was the last time you practiced a ZERO FLAP landing?
>Did you hit the numbers?
>How long did it take you to stop?
>I read the spec sheet too and seen what they say about how SLOW the stall
>speed is. I was also taught by a CFII/ATP that has 2000 Hours in RV-6's. His
>answer was: "You want to fly 5 Kts over Stall on approach? Not with Me or My
>Plane! 80 Kts over the fence!"
>The RV-6 is not the most stable of planes at slow speeds and the flaps do
>make it MUCH better on the final approach.
>And before you guys light your flame throwers. I have about 250 Hours in
>RV-6's, just don't expect them to fly like a C-150. My comments are REAL and
you
>have to keep it real if you don't want to bend any metal.
>
And practicing '80 kts over the fence', don't expect to live if you have
an engine failure & have to land off-airport.
Please name the cfii so we'll know who to avoid. ;-)
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Electric Flaps option |
--> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
FLYaDIVE@aol.com wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: FLYaDIVE@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 8/18/06 12:25:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> flyrv6@bryantechnology.com writes:
>
>> I would like to eventually after flying have
>> a arm rest in the center.
> ======================================
> Tim:
>
> The simple answer is DO NOT INSTAL A CENTER ARM REST!
Well....don't know how simple my answers will be but I'll interject some
differing opinions.
> 1 - There is not enough room.
Guess this is sorta subjective. The several armrests I have seen in RV's
are only about three inches wide (the width of the space between seat
cushions, and the pilots I polled seemed quite happy with the armrests.
My hangarmate put an armrest in his RV-6A and its still there after ~800
flight hours.
> 2 - It will be in the way when you Need to work under the panel ... And you
> WILL need to work under the panel.
This situation is resolved by making the armrest easily removable.
> 3 - Unless you and your copilot are 100 Lbs each There is not enough room.
> Yo already will be bumping elbows and maybe even butts.
One rationalization I have heard for the armrest to *prevent* bumping
posteriors. ;-)
> 4 - The RV-6 does not need an arm rest, your legs are your arm rests.
Tim wants an armrest because he has a throttle quadrant and wants to
brace his arm. Even though I don't have an armrest in my plane, if I
didn't have the cupholders between the seats I might have an armrest
with a little map pocket in it.
> 5 - I have always preferred MANUAL FLAPS but both RV-6's I fly have electric
> flaps. They are acceptable. But, I still prefer Manual.
Some folks do.
> Why? I lost all electric and could not deploy the flaps.
> When was the last time you practiced a ZERO FLAP landing?
Quite often, matter of fact.
> Did you hit the numbers?
Usually no, but then I hardly ever do hit the numbers. ;-)
> How long did it take you to stop?
Kinda a moot point on a 6000' runway. But I guess if the engine stopped
running and the battery fell out of the plane just before a forced
landing in a little cow pasture, I would probably be wishing I had
manual flaps. But I find electric flaps to be quite satisfactory for the
frequent short, grass field landings I make. By the way, the flaps on my
plane are connected with a fused lead directly to the battery so the
flaps are available even if the master has been turned off.
> I read the spec sheet too and seen what they say about how SLOW the stall
> speed is. I was also taught by a CFII/ATP that has 2000 Hours in RV-6's. His
> answer was: "You want to fly 5 Kts over Stall on approach? Not with Me or My
> Plane! 80 Kts over the fence!"
Speaking of hitting the numbers or stopping in a short distance, it just
ain't gonna happen if you try landing an RV-6 after arriving at the
runway carrying 80 kts....
> The RV-6 is not the most stable of planes at slow speeds and the flaps do
> make it MUCH better on the final approach.
Hmmmmm, guess this one will depend on pilot experience and preferences, too.
> And before you guys light your flame throwers. I have about 250 Hours in
> RV-6's, just don't expect them to fly like a C-150. My comments are REAL and
you
> have to keep it real if you don't want to bend any metal.
I certainly have no intentions of tossing any flames, just offering a
different viewpoint. Its been so long since I flew a C150 I've forgotten
how they fly, but after nearly 800 hrs in my RV-6, I do have some
opinions on how *my* particular plane lands at various speeds and
configurations. Since my plane stalls at ~50kts indicated (but I'm
usually looking more at the LRI), I find "coming over the fence" at
70kts with the speed steadily decreasing to 55-60kts at touchdown works
very nicely when the wind isn't gusting. Any faster and the plane won't
three-point without skipping and a wheel landing is more apt to bounce
as well. When the tail drops and the wing incidence goes positive any
faster than 65 kts, the stubby little wings think they are being called
upon to fly!
Sam Buchanan
Message 28
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--> RV-List message posted by: Ron Lee <ronlee@pcisys.net>
>Any RVer's in the Denver area? I'm planning of flying my RV8 to Centennial
>Airport arriving September 13 and need advice on possible temporary hangar
>space and/or tie down.
In case you are not used to high altitude flying here are a few suggestions.
1) Fly your normal airspeeds on approach. There may actually be some delta
as altitude changes but the point is that your groundspeed will be higher than
you are used to for the same indicated airspeed. Do not use groundspeed to
determine flare.
2) Lean the engine during runup according to your engine manufacturer.
3) Be aware of the Denver Class B airspace altitudes.
4) If you want to go to Leadville to get your highest airport certificate
let me know.
Ron Lee
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Electric Flaps option |
--> RV-List message posted by: Larry Pardue <n5lp@warpdriveonline.com>
On Aug 18, 2006, at 8:24 PM, Kevin Horton wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
>
> On 18 Aug 2006, at 21:46, Larry Pardue wrote:
>
>> --> RV-List message posted by: Larry Pardue
>> <n5lp@warpdriveonline.com>
>>
>> On Aug 18, 2006, at 7:11 PM, FLYaDIVE@aol.com wrote:
>>
>>> . I was also taught by a CFII/ATP that has 2000 Hours in
>>> RV-6's. His
>>> answer was: "You want to fly 5 Kts over Stall on approach? Not
>>> with Me or My
>>> Plane! 80 Kts over the fence!"
>>
>> I don't believe in 5 kts over stall either, but 80 knots over the
>> fence is unsafe and stupid.
>>
>> do not archive
>
> Let's keep in mind that every aircraft has different airspeed
> system errors. ASI instrument errors differ, and sometimes they
> can be quite large (I've seen reports of ASIs with 10 mph
> instrument errors). And, many builders install something other
> than Van's static ports, which can affect the static system errors,
> producing several knots of airspeed error. Static and pitot system
> leaks may also affect airspeed system accuracy. Thus, 80 kt IAS in
> one person's aircraft might be exactly the same CAS as 70 kt IAS in
> someone else's aircraft.
>
> Optimum indicated airspeeds for various phases of flight need to be
> determined by each builder, and are specific to that aircraft.
>
> Kevin Horton
> Ottawa, Canada
>
But it sounds like this guy has a general rule not related to the
individual airplane.
Larry
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Electric Flaps option |
--> RV-List message posted by: Doug Gray <dgra1233@bigpond.net.au>
My kit was delivered with manual flap option and during the building I
have converted it to electric. Modifying the torque tube assembly was
no big deal. Just cut the three tubes and have a welder fit the three
steel 'brackets' in place.
It seemed a bit stupid to scrap the entire manual weldment for the sake
of three welds.
Of course you do need to find a capable aircraft welder to do the job.
I have found several jobs that needed to be done along the way so it is
good to know who to turn to.
BTW are your rudder pedals modified according to the Vans AD? If not
then get these welded at the same time.
Doug Gray
On Fri, 2006-08-18 at 22:06 -0400, James H Nelson wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: James H Nelson <rv9jim@juno.com>
>
> Hi Tim,
> The electric flaps are the way to go. I would use
> "aircraftextras.com" flap controller if I was to do it again. I have the
> three position system from Van's but it is a locked in system. The other
> system is variable and you can set it where you want and how you want. I
> spent a bit of time getting the fixed system to be "right". I would have
> liked a simpler system and I think aircraft extras has that option.
>
> Jim Nelson
>
>
>
>
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Electric Flaps option |
--> RV-List message posted by: Doug Gray <dgra1233@bigpond.net.au>
> And practicing '80 kts over the fence', don't expect to live if you have
> an engine failure & have to land off-airport.
>
> Please name the cfii so we'll know who to avoid. ;-)
At 80kts over the fence it's a wonder you can hit the numbers on the far
end of the runway. Perhaps the fence is a mile downwind.
I thought the rule of thumb was approach safety speed is 1.3 times stall
IAS in the landing configuration. I guess it is possible that the ASI
errors are so bad that IAS at flapless stall is >60kts.
Doug Gray
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Electric Flaps option |
The maximum safe controllability occurs at Va.
> The RV-6 is not the most stable of planes at slow speeds and the
flaps do
> make it MUCH better on the final approach.
Do not archive Do not archive
Sherman Butler
RV-7a Wings
Idaho Falls
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