---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 08/31/06: 12 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:24 AM - Re: rivets (kitfoxmike) 2. 08:27 AM - Re: Re: Rant, question, suggestion: errors in (Bob Collins) 3. 10:31 AM - Re: elevator balance weight (HCRV6@comcast.net) 4. 11:12 AM - Re: elevator balance weight (Dale Ensing) 5. 12:38 PM - Re: elevator balance weight (Ed Holyoke) 6. 12:39 PM - Re: elevator balance weight (Ed Holyoke) 7. 03:14 PM - Re: Re: Re: Rant, question, suggestion: errors in (Jerry Springer) 8. 03:47 PM - Re: Sam James fiberglass video (Dave) 9. 04:28 PM - Capacitance sender (Dennis & Helga Enns) 10. 04:37 PM - Re: Re: rivets (Doc Custer) 11. 06:44 PM - yuk yuk (Wheeler North) 12. 10:19 PM - Re: elevator balance weight (HCRV6@comcast.net) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:24:03 AM PST US Subject: RV-List: Re: rivets From: "kitfoxmike" --> RV-List message posted by: "kitfoxmike" Gee, I thought that dot in the center was for drilling them back out. -------- kitfoxmike kitfox4 1200 912ul speedster http://www.frappr.com/kitfoxmike rv7 wingkit reserved 287RV Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=58727#58727 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:27:37 AM PST US From: "Bob Collins" Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Rant, question, suggestion: errors in --> RV-List message posted by: "Bob Collins" > This thread equals about 500 rivets that could have be > set? I say rivet on. If you want to offer a price to > buy Van's booming business... well Heh heh. In my next life, I actually don't want to OWN Van's. I want to be Ken Krueger. How good must the job security be when you're the guy who designs the most popular homebuilts in the world? And how cool must it be to know that the most popular homebuilt in the world came straight out of your head? Do not archive. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 10:31:16 AM PST US From: HCRV6@comcast.net Subject: Re: RV-List: elevator balance weight Ed, Not sure where you are coming from on this. After paint I had to add about 2 ounces to the left elevator and about 1 ounce to the right if memory serves me correctly. The paint definitely increased weight aft of the pivot, not forward as you are suggesting. I balanced the elevators separately because once they are installed with the manual trim cable in place it would be impossible to get a meaningful balance indication. BTW, the way I did it worked well by installing the added weight behind the existing weight pocket using a couple of rivnuts thru the elevator tip rib. Worked good for me. -- Harry Crosby RV-6 N16CX, 254 hours -------------- Original message -------------- From: "Ed Holyoke" > --> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Holyoke" > > > > Howdy list, > > I've rebuilt the elevators on our 6 due to pedestrian damage. I went > with the .020 skins (previously .016) and am using the heavier lead > counterbalance weights recommended for these skins. Pre-paint, the left > elevator balances with only about an ounce or two on the trailing edge > while the right elevator is considerably more nose heavy without the > trim tab and associated structure. I'd like to remove some of the extra > weight from the right elevator before I rivet on the tip and paint, but > I'm concerned that the left elevator won't have enough c-balance weight > and I'll need extra on the right side to do the final balance on the > whole assembly rather than balancing each individually. I know that it > all depends on how heavy the paint is and I'm not sure what that will > be. > > How much did you have to remove from the weights on your airplane to get > it to balance after paint? Did the left elevator have enough weight or > did it need make up weight on the other elevator? > > Pax, > > Ed Holyoke > > > > >
Ed,
 
Not sure where you are coming from on this.  After paint I had to add about 2 ounces to the left elevator and about 1 ounce to the right if memory serves me correctly.  The paint definitely increased weight aft of the pivot, not forward as you are suggesting.
 
I balanced the elevators separately because once they are installed with the manual trim cable in place it would be impossible to get a meaningful balance indication.
 
BTW, the way I did it worked well by installing the added weight behind the existing weight pocket using a couple of rivnuts thru the elevator tip rib.  Worked good for me.
--
Harry Crosby
RV-6 N16CX, 254 hours
 
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop@pacbell.net>

> --> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Holyoke"
>
>
>
> Howdy list,
>
> I've rebuilt the elevators on our 6 due to pedestrian damage. I went
> with the .020 skins (previously .016) and am using the heavier lead
> counterbalance weights recommended for these skins. Pre-paint, the left
> elevator balances with only about an ounce or two on the trailing edge
> while the right elevator is considerably more nose heavy without the
> trim tab and associated structure. I'd like to remove some of the extra
> weight from the right elevator before I rivet on the tip and paint, but
> I'm concerned that the left elevator won't have enough c-balance weight
> and I'll need extr a on t =====
________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 11:12:22 AM PST US From: "Dale Ensing" Subject: Re: RV-List: elevator balance weight Van's phone person told me to do final balance of the elevators after they were joined (Without the manual trim control connected if that is your setup.) Dale Ensing ----- Original Message ----- From: HCRV6@comcast.net To: rv-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 1:30 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: elevator balance weight Ed, Not sure where you are coming from on this. After paint I had to add about 2 ounces to the left elevator and about 1 ounce to the right if memory serves me correctly. The paint definitely increased weight aft of the pivot, not forward as you are suggesting. I balanced the elevators separately because once they are installed with the manual trim cable in place it would be impossible to get a meaningful balance indication. BTW, the way I did it worked well by installing the added weight behind the existing weight pocket using a couple of rivnuts thru the elevator tip rib. Worked good for me. -- Harry Crosby RV-6 N16CX, 254 hours -------------- Original message -------------- From: "Ed Holyoke" > --> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Holyoke" > > > > Howdy list, > > I've rebuilt the elevators on our 6 due to pedestrian damage. I went > with the .020 skins (previously .016) and am using the heavier lead > counterbalance weights recommended for these skins. Pre-paint, the left > elevator balances with only about an ounce or two on the trailing edge > while the right elevator is considerably more nose heavy without the > trim tab and associated structure. I'd like to remove some of the extra > weight from the right elevator before I rivet on the tip and paint, but > I'm concerned that the left elevator won't have enough c-balance weight > and I'll need extr a on t ====== ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 12:38:58 PM PST US From: "Ed Holyoke" Subject: RE: RV-List: elevator balance weight Dale, Yeah, we've got the manual trim. If it were the electric setup with the servo in the elevator, there'd be no way that the supplied weights would be enough to balance the left elevator separately even before paint. That would mean that the bolted together assembly would indeed be the only way to balance, short of adding weight to the left side. Perhaps it is of little value to balance them individually, but it is how I'd like to do it if possible. If they do become separated in flight, flutter will likely be the least of my problems. ;-) Pax, Ed Holyoke -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dale Ensing Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 11:12 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: elevator balance weight Van's phone person told me to do final balance of the elevators after they were joined (Without the manual trim control connected if that is your setup.) Dale Ensing ----- Original Message ----- From: HCRV6@comcast.net Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 1:30 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: elevator balance weight Ed, Not sure where you are coming from on this. After paint I had to add about 2 ounces to the left elevator and about 1 ounce to the right if memory serves me correctly. The paint definitely increased weight aft of the pivot, not forward as you are suggesting. I balanced the elevators separately because once they are installed with the manual trim cable in place it would be impossible to get a meaningful balance indication. BTW, the way I did it worked well by installing the added weight behind the existing weight pocket using a couple of rivnuts thru the elevator tip rib. Worked good for me. -- Harry Crosby RV-6 N16CX, 254 hours -------------- Original message -------------- From: "Ed Holyoke" > --> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Holyoke" > > > > Howdy list, > > I've rebuilt the elevators on our 6 due to pedestrian damage. I went > with the .020 skins (previously .016) and am using the heavier lead > counterbalance weights recommended for these skins. Pre-paint, the left > elevator balances with only about an ounce or two on the trailing edge > while the right elevator is considerably more nose heavy without the > trim tab and associated structure. I'd like to remove some of the extra > weight from the right elevator before I rivet on the tip and paint, but > I'm concerned that the left elevator won't have enough c-balance weight > and I'll need extr a on t ====== com/Navigator?RV-List ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:39:22 PM PST US From: "Ed Holyoke" Subject: RE: RV-List: elevator balance weight Harry, You've got me wrong. I do understand that the paint is going to move the balance point aft. Van's directions say that weight will have to be removed from the counterbalances by drilling holes implying that the weights are too heavy. The balance point is much further forward on the right side and I'm wondering if I can remove some of the extra weight now. I'm wanting to get a little closer to the correct weight so that I don't have to swiss cheese it so much later. One thing I did after asking the question yesterday was too attach the outboard weights to the elevators with rivets holding nutplates so that I'll be able to remove the inboard weights and shave and/or drill the back sides where it won't be visible. Do you have the .020 skins and the .020 weights? Pax, Ed Holyoke -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of HCRV6@comcast.net Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 10:31 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: elevator balance weight Ed, Not sure where you are coming from on this. After paint I had to add about 2 ounces to the left elevator and about 1 ounce to the right if memory serves me correctly. The paint definitely increased weight aft of the pivot, not forward as you are suggesting. I balanced the elevators separately because once they are installed with the manual trim cable in place it would be impossible to get a meaningful balance indication. BTW, the way I did it worked well by installing the added weight behind the existing weight pocket using a couple of rivnuts thru the elevator tip rib. Worked good for me. -- Harry Crosby RV-6 N16CX, 254 hours -------------- Original message -------------- From: "Ed Holyoke" > --> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Holyoke" > > > > Howdy list, > > I've rebuilt the elevators on our 6 due to pedestrian damage. I went > with the .020 skins (previously .016) and am using the heavier lead > counterbalance weights recommended for these skins. Pre-paint, the left > elevator balances with only about an ounce or two on the trailing edge > while the right elevator is considerably more nose heavy without the > trim tab and associated structure. I'd like to remove some of the extra > weight from the right elevator before I rivet on the tip and paint, but > I'm concerned that the left elevator won't have enough c-balance weight > and I'll need extr a on t ====== ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 03:14:08 PM PST US From: Jerry Springer Subject: Re: RE: RV-List: Re: Rant, question, suggestion: errors in --> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer >From: Bob Collins >Date: 2006/08/31 Thu AM 10:27:00 CDT >To: rv-list@matronics.com >Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Rant, question, suggestion: errors in >--> RV-List message posted by: "Bob Collins" > >> This thread equals about 500 rivets that could have be >> set? I say rivet on. If you want to offer a price to >> buy Van's booming business... well > >Heh heh. In my next life, I actually don't want to OWN Van's. I want to be >Ken Krueger. How good must the job security be when you're the guy who >designs the most popular homebuilts in the world? And how cool must it be to >know that the most popular homebuilt in the world came straight out of your >head? > >Do not archive. > > That is not quite true, Van had the most popular homebuilt in the world before Ken started work there. he has defiantly helped with the construction procedures but did not really have anything to do with the design itself of the earlier kits. do not archive ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 03:47:07 PM PST US From: "Dave" Subject: Re: RV-List: Sam James fiberglass video --> RV-List message posted by: "Dave" Oops, Sorry, didn't mean to send it to the list. Do not archive!!! Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave" Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 6:53 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Sam James fiberglass video > --> RV-List message posted by: "Dave" > > Andy, > > I caved in an bought the dvd from you. Plus a few other things. Thanks > for the website > > Dave > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Aircraft Technical Book Company" > To: > Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 8:27 AM > Subject: Re: RV-List: Sam James fiberglass video > > >> --> RV-List message posted by: "Aircraft Technical Book Company" >> >> >> Builder's Bookstore has them in stock >> http://www.buildersbooks.com/fiberglass_101.htm?19,52 >> >> Andy >> 800 780-4115 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Dave" >> To: >> Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2006 10:37 PM >> Subject: RV-List: Sam James fiberglass video >> >> >>> --> RV-List message posted by: "Dave" >>> >>> Listers >>> >>> Anyone have a Sam James fiberglass dvd there are ready to sell? >>> >>> Thanks >>> >>> Dave >>> >>> Do not archive >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 04:28:36 PM PST US From: "Dennis & Helga Enns" Subject: RV-List: Capacitance sender I am using Van's capacitance plates but need info on the capacitance to voltage converter. I will be using a Dynon EMS D10 for fuel level display. 1. Source for converter 2. Make and model number 3. How is the connection made between the converter and the BNC connection on the tanks. 4. How many and what gauge wires need to be run between the converter and the Dynon EMS. I expect the converters will be installed in the wing roots but would really like to get a handle on the wiring so I can proceed with it. PS: I have tried to contacting Princeton Electronics but get no reply to email or voice mail. I also understand that Dynon is working on a converter design but it has not yet reached the try out stage. Thanks Dennis Enns ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 04:37:04 PM PST US From: "Doc Custer" Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: rivets --> RV-List message posted by: "Doc Custer" Chuckle Doc ----- Original Message ----- From: "kitfoxmike" Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 8:22 AM Subject: RV-List: Re: rivets > --> RV-List message posted by: "kitfoxmike" > > Gee, I thought that dot in the center was for drilling them back out. > > -------- > kitfoxmike > kitfox4 1200 912ul speedster > http://www.frappr.com/kitfoxmike > rv7 wingkit > reserved 287RV > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=58727#58727 > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:44:57 PM PST US From: Wheeler North Subject: RV-List: yuk yuk --> RV-List message posted by: Wheeler North Interesting rant on vans plans you guys ought to try working on certified AC with certified manuals/plans... often 43.13 is the best thing you have.... particularly on the old ones. The reason they call them aircraft is because you are supposed to be a craft's person to build 'em and to fly 'em. Vans plan's fasteners diameters are rarely wrong but lengths are always wrong, buy a ruler or inside bolt hole gauge and get over it. 2117 AD structural rivets should have a dimple in the top, one only. These come in flush an426 or universal an470 head design mostly these days. They tend to be good for about five to ten years then need to be reannealed as they do age harden slowly. Try crushing a few if they cracks chuck 'em or anneal 'em. No dimple means 1100 soft aluminum and the list goes on, check AC43.13 1A or 1B or AC65-15A for the list. W ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:19:37 PM PST US From: HCRV6@comcast.net Subject: RE: RV-List: elevator balance weight Ed, OK, I understand. I planned to fly my -6 before painting so I balanced the elevators first without paint, then had to add weight after painting to rebalance. Your approach sounds good if you plan to paint before first flight, then shave the weights as required to balance. Hopefully they are oversize to start with. When I built my elevators we still had to cast the weights into the tips. Oh yes, I have the 0.016 skins. Harry Crosby RV-6 N16CX, 254 hours -------------- Original message -------------- From: "Ed Holyoke" Harry, Youve got me wrong. I do understand that the paint is going to move the balance point aft. Vans directions say that weight will have to be removed from the counterbalances by drilling holes implying that the weights are too heavy. The balance point is much further forward on the right side and Im wondering if I can remove some of the extra weight now. Im wanting to get a little closer to the correct weight so that I dont have to swiss cheese it so much later. One thing I did after asking the question yesterday was too attach the outboard weights to the elevators with rivets holding nutplates so that Ill be able to remove the inboard weights and shave and/or drill the back sides where it wont be visible. Do you have the .020 skins and the .020 weights? Pax, Ed Holyoke -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of HCRV6@comcast.net Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 10:31 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: elevator balance weight Ed, Not sure where you are coming from on this. After paint I had to add about 2 ounces to the left elevator and about 1 ounce to the right if memory serves me correctly. The paint definitely increased weight aft of the pivot, not forward as you are suggesting. I balanced the elevators separately because once they are installed with the manual trim cable in place it would be impossible to get a meaningful balance indication. BTW, the way I did it worked well by installing the added weight behind the existing weight pocket using a couple of rivnuts thru the elevator tip rib. Worked good for me. -- Harry Crosby RV-6 N16CX, 254 hours -------------- Original message -------------- From: "Ed Holyoke" > --> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Holyoke" > > > > Howdy list, > > I've rebuilt the elevators on our 6 due to pedestrian damage. I went > with the .020 skins (previously .016) and am using the heavier lead > counterbalance weights recommended for these skins. Pre-paint, the left > elevator balances with only about an ounce or two on the trailing edge > while the right elevator is considerably more nose heavy without the > trim tab and associated structure. I'd like to remove some of the extra > weight from the right elevator before I rivet on the tip and paint, but > I'm concerned that the left elevator won't have enough c-balance weight > and I'll need extr a on t ====== - The RV-List Email Forum - --> - NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - --> - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI - --> - List Contribution Web Site - Thank you for your generous support! -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -->
Ed,
 
OK, I understand.  I planned to fly my -6 before painting so I balanced the elevators first without paint, then had to add weight after painting to rebalance.  Your approach sounds good if you plan to paint before first flight, then shave the weights as required to balance.  Hopefully they are oversize to start with.  When I built my elevators we still had to cast the weights into the tips.
 
Oh yes, I have the 0.016 skins.
 
Harry Crosby
RV-6 N16CX, 254 hours
 
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop@pacbell.net>

Harry,

 

Youve got me wrong. I do understand that the paint is going to move the balance point aft.

 

Vans directions say that weight will have to be removed from the counterbalances by drilling holes implying that the weights are too heavy. The balance point is much further forward on the right side and Im wondering if I can remove some of the extra weight now. Im wanting to get a little closer to the correct weight so that I dont have to swiss cheese it so much later.

 

One thing I did after asking the question yesterday was too attach the outboard weights to the elevators with rivets holding nutplates so that Ill be able to remove the inboard weights and shave and/or drill the back sides where it wont be visible.

 

Do you have the .020 skins and the .020 weights?

 

Pax,

 

Ed Holyoke

 

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of HCRV6@comcast.net
Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 10:31 AM
< B>To: rv-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: elevator balance weight

 

Ed,

 

Not sure where you are coming from on this.  After paint I had to add about 2 ounces to the left elevator and about 1 ounce to the right if memory serves me correctly.  The paint definitely increased weight aft of the pivot, not forward as you are suggesting.

 

I balanced the elevators separately because once they are installed with the manual trim cable in place it would be impossible to get a meaningful balance indication.

 

BTW, the way I did it worked well by installing the added weight behind the existing weight pocket using a couple of rivnuts thru the elevator tip rib.  Worked good for me.

--
Harry Crosby
RV-6 N16CX, 254 hours

 

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop@pacbell.net>

> --> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Holyoke"
>
>
>
> Howdy list,
>
> I've rebuilt the elevators on our 6 due to pedestrian damage. I went
> with the .020 skins (previously .016) and am using the heavier lead
> counterbalance weights recommended for these skins. Pre-paint, the left
> elevator balances with only about an ounce or two on the trailing edge
> while the right elevator is considerably more nose heavy without the
> trim tab and associated structure. I'd like to remove some of the extra
> weight from the right elevator before I rivet on the tip and paint, but
> I'm concerned that the left elevator won't have enough c-balance weight
> and I'll need extr a on t ====== 

 
 
         
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