---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 09/10/06: 17 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:19 AM - Re: RV-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 09/09/06 (glen matejcek) 2. 10:21 AM - RV-7 F-770 forward side skin 'pucker factor' question (Charlie England) 3. 11:03 AM - Gretz Aero Pitot Wiring (Ralph Hoover) 4. 01:10 PM - RV8 A - Quickbuild vs. Standard (Thilo Kind) 5. 01:58 PM - Re: RV8 A - Quickbuild vs. Standard (Richard Seiders) 6. 02:10 PM - Re: RV8 A - Quickbuild vs. Standard (Bob Collins) 7. 02:44 PM - Re: RV8 A - Quickbuild vs. Standard (Sam Buchanan) 8. 02:53 PM - Re: RV8 A - Quickbuild vs. Standard (Doug Gray) 9. 03:07 PM - Re: RV8 A - Quickbuild vs. Standard (Kevin Horton) 10. 04:33 PM - Re: Curious (Chuck) 11. 04:40 PM - Re: Bose versus Lightspeed headset comparison (macrafic) 12. 06:17 PM - Re: RV8 A - Quickbuild vs. Standard (Dan Checkoway) 13. 07:53 PM - Re: RV8 A - Quickbuild vs. Standard (Frank Stringham) 14. 09:44 PM - Re: RV8 A - Quickbuild vs. Standard (Bob Collins) 15. 10:04 PM - Re: Gretz Aero Pitot Wiring (Scott Lewis) 16. 10:12 PM - For Sale: Vetterman exhaust (Al & Gail Herron) 17. 10:21 PM - Fuel Pumps (DEAN PSIROPOULOS) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:19:23 AM PST US From: "glen matejcek" Subject: RV-List: RE: RV-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 09/09/06 --> RV-List message posted by: "glen matejcek" Time: 06:34:26 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV-List: Aircraft Spruce -- Great Service ... LOL From: "Chuck Jensen" --> RV-List message posted by: "Chuck Jensen" Chuck- >"...it's obvious he's no >dummy....that title is reserved for those of us that decide to build a >plane and allot half the time and half the money that it's really going >to take. WOW! If you only blew it by half, you're a lot smarter than me! ; - ) And again, Do Not Archive glen matejcek aerobubba@earthlink.net ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 10:21:34 AM PST US From: Charlie England Subject: RV-List: RV-7 F-770 forward side skin 'pucker factor' question --> RV-List message posted by: Charlie England Greetings -7 fuselage builders, I've got a glitch with my F-770 forward side skins. With the mid section belly skin clecoed to the tailcone @ F706, when I add the F770 side skins & cleco them to the F704, 705 & 706 bulkheads I get a 'pucker' in the bottom edge of the skin between the rear spar carry-through & the change in angle of the bottom skin where the F-770 curved portion starts. This is where the 770 would (I assume) get riveted to the flange of the F-623 rib that lies flat in the belly skin on each side. Both sides do this. I've removed one skin & rolled the bottom corner to fit the tailcone, & it still has the 'pucker'. With the 770 clecoed to F705 bulkhead there is about a 1/4" gap at midpoint between the rear spar & the point at which the curved transistion begins. Again, one side has been curved to transition around to the belly & the other is still unbent; both exhibit the same bulge. Related question: I see in my instructions one note that says 'don't install the F-623 ribs now' but I can't find any instruction to actually install them. Anyone seen that instruction? All I've seen is an instruction to install the forward doubler attach tab for the F-623's. Thanks, Charlie ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 11:03:43 AM PST US From: Ralph Hoover Subject: RV-List: Gretz Aero Pitot Wiring --> RV-List message posted by: Ralph Hoover I have a GA-1000 heated Pitot on back-order so I don't have the install info yet. Does anyone have the details of the wiring required and the panel indicator. I tried Stein Air and Warren Gretz, so far no answers. RV7A Wiring Ralph Hoover ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 01:10:22 PM PST US From: "Thilo Kind" Subject: RV-List: RV8 A - Quickbuild vs. Standard --> RV-List message posted by: "Thilo Kind" Hi everybody, this is my first post on this list. I'm planning to build an RV 8A and will place the order as soon as I have my workshop organized. This won't be my first adventure into airplane building - I have already built a Zodiac CH 601 HDS. Have a question: what other arguements (besides cost and time saving) speak for or against the quickbuild kit versus the standard kit? Thanks Thilo Kind ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 01:58:06 PM PST US From: Richard Seiders Subject: Re: RV-List: RV8 A - Quickbuild vs. Standard --> RV-List message posted by: Richard Seiders Against: $8000. For: mega hours labor/headaches saved, alignment problems for fuse, wings, and wing'fuse fit are a non issue. No fixtures required. Prepunched panels/skins a big help, but QB still worth it in my opinion. Dick (Quickbuild RV6A completed and flying, and helping on a Quickbuild 7A). do not archive At 04:03 PM 9/10/2006, you wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Thilo Kind" > >Hi everybody, > >this is my first post on this list. I'm planning to build an RV 8A and >will place the order as soon as I have my workshop organized. This won't >be my first adventure into airplane building - I have already built a >Zodiac CH 601 HDS. > >Have a question: what other arguements (besides cost and time saving) >speak for or against the quickbuild kit versus the standard kit? > >Thanks > >Thilo Kind > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 02:10:05 PM PST US From: "Bob Collins" Subject: RE: RV-List: RV8 A - Quickbuild vs. Standard --> RV-List message posted by: "Bob Collins" I must be building my RV wrong. I'm building slo-build and I'm having a BLAST! (g) If I'd gone QB, I wouldn't have known what I was missing (wcept flying really soon, of course) Bob Collins St. Paul, Minn. RV Builder's Hotline (why sure, it's free) http://home.comcast.net/~rvnewsletter/ > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > Richard Seiders > Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 3:57 PM > To: rv-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: RV8 A - Quickbuild vs. Standard > > > --> RV-List message posted by: Richard Seiders > > Against: $8000. > For: mega hours labor/headaches saved, alignment problems for fuse, > wings, and wing'fuse fit are a non issue. No fixtures > required. Prepunched > panels/skins a big help, but QB still worth it in my opinion. > > Dick (Quickbuild RV6A completed and flying, and helping on a > Quickbuild 7A). do not archive > > > > > > > At 04:03 PM 9/10/2006, you wrote: > >--> RV-List message posted by: "Thilo Kind" > > > >Hi everybody, > > > >this is my first post on this list. I'm planning to build an > RV 8A and > >will place the order as soon as I have my workshop > organized. This won't > >be my first adventure into airplane building - I have > already built a > >Zodiac CH 601 HDS. > > > >Have a question: what other arguements (besides cost and time saving) > >speak for or against the quickbuild kit versus the standard kit? > > > >Thanks > > > >Thilo Kind > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 02:44:43 PM PST US From: Sam Buchanan Subject: Re: RV-List: RV8 A - Quickbuild vs. Standard --> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan Bob Collins wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: "Bob Collins" > > I must be building my RV wrong. I'm building slo-build and I'm having a > BLAST! (g) > > If I'd gone QB, I wouldn't have known what I was missing (wcept flying > really soon, of course) Bob, I don't know that you would be flying *that* much sooner. :-) What is often overlooked in QB vs standard discussions is that the QB only saves time during construction of the airframe. Once the airframe is looking sorta like an airplane, the project is only about half finished and at that point the QB and standard builder are faced with identical completion tasks. Keep in mind that a 50% savings of QB time over standard airframe build ends up only representing a 25% difference in total project build time. And the new, highly evolved kits are blurring these distinctions even more. There are valid reasons for going with a QB, but it seems the advantages in build time are often misunderstood and overstated. Sam Buchanan ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:53:45 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV-List: RV8 A - Quickbuild vs. Standard From: Doug Gray --> RV-List message posted by: Doug Gray How about the increased probability of completion! No so much a problem for a second time builder I should imagine. Doug Gray On Sun, 2006-09-10 at 22:03 +0200, Thilo Kind wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: "Thilo Kind" > > Hi everybody, > > this is my first post on this list. I'm planning to build an RV 8A and will > place the order as soon as I have my workshop organized. This won't be my > first adventure into airplane building - I have already built a Zodiac CH > 601 HDS. > > Have a question: what other arguements (besides cost and time saving) speak > for or against the quickbuild kit versus the standard kit? > > Thanks > > Thilo Kind > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 03:07:59 PM PST US From: Kevin Horton Subject: Re: RV-List: RV8 A - Quickbuild vs. Standard --> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton On 10 Sep 2006, at 16:03, Thilo Kind wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: "Thilo Kind" > > Have a question: what other arguements (besides cost and time > saving) speak for or against the quickbuild kit versus the standard > kit? Some builders like to make deviations from the plans to add custom features. Many of these types of mods are more difficult on a QB kit, as they would require significant disassembly and rework. Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) Ottawa, Canada http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 04:33:41 PM PST US From: Chuck Subject: Re: RV-List: Curious Thanks Bob, for the contct info. I did email them before and they sent me their rebuilt boost-pump price list. I will email they again and ask specifically for a re-build kit. By the way, I pulled her apart. The main shaft pin sheared-off. It is so small, I'm gonna have some trouble getting the old piece out and a new one to re-place it. I will also replace the vanes and seals while I've got her off/out and apart. I hope they do sell a rebuild kit; life would be so much easier if they do. Chuck "Bob J." wrote: If I had to guess it sounds like a check valve seal. They'll sell you the individual seals, according to my buddy. http://www.dukesinc.com/contact.html Regards, Bob Japundza RV-6 flying F1 under const On 9/9/06, Chuck wrote: Bob, Thanks for telling me that. Can you get the contact info for the rebuild kit. So far my research has yielded negative results. I was afraid Duke's parts were somehow proprietary and classified next to unobtainium on the Elements chart. I will crack her seals tomorrow morning and report back. Like what's his name said "... why not open her up, you've got nothing to lose." You know, ocassionally I do enjoy this list for actual RV related stuff (not just to laugh my a$$ off at ALL the pissin' & moanin' & flame wars :-) Chuck "Bob J." < rocketbob@gmail.com> wrote: A friend of mine rebuilt his Dukes pump, and I got to look at the innards when he had it apart. They're pretty simple inside, its just a vane pump with a check valve/bypass. The vanes were made of teflon IIRC. I think he paid $160 for the rebuild kit. Regards, Bob Japundza RV-6 flying F1 under const. On 9/8/06, Chuck < chuck515tigger@yahoo.com > wrote: Just curious.... I'm running an IO-320 (Ly-con) with Bendix injections, mechanical fuel pump and an electric "Dukes Inc." boost-pump. The Duke takes a dump (spins but won't pressure up). I find out the replacement Duke is $600 plus core, shipping and tax ($900 area). I went with the Duke because I got it in trade; I use to use Performance Air (?) but their price sucks too and I hated the added weight & complexity of their recommended fuel filter. Seeking thoughts & recommendations: 1. Cough-up the bucks and get the replacement Duke. 2. Crack-open the Duke's seals ans see if I can repair (might be just a spun nut/cotter-key/or sumpin' like the nylatron pump vane). 3. Skip the boost pump 'cuz I never use it anyway... 4. Forget this ever increasin' overly-expensive flyin' sh!t and spend the $$$ on girls & surfin' 5. Your suggestions........... Thanks. Chuck --------------------------------- Get your own web address for just $1.99/1st yr. We'll help. --------------------------------- Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 04:40:35 PM PST US Subject: RV-List: Re: Bose versus Lightspeed headset comparison From: "macrafic" --> RV-List message posted by: "macrafic" I had a chance to hear both the LS 30G and the Bose at Oshkosh this year, in a sound booth where you could pipe in engine noise and vary the volume. I was impressed with the LS, especially considering the price. For the sound, immediate comfort and price, I would purchase the LS hands down. However, I can't comment on the long term wear of both. Seems to me this would be a very critical criteria. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=60849#60849 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:17:03 PM PST US From: "Dan Checkoway" Subject: Re: RV-List: RV8 A - Quickbuild vs. Standard --> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" > How about the increased probability of completion! FWIW, of the "stalled out" kits that I'm aware of, the majority are QB. Yes, I know that's one guy's generalization, so take it with a grain of salt...but I'm calling it like I see it. At least the slow build guys are moving along steadily...if not "quickly." do not archive )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com http://www.weathermeister.com ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:53:58 PM PST US From: "Frank Stringham" Subject: Re: RV-List: RV8 A - Quickbuild vs. Standard --> RV-List message posted by: "Frank Stringham" one man or gals poison is anothers piece of cake. I choose the slow build because 8K on my retirement $$$$$ would really help with the panel. I have enjoyed every minute of it....well maybe not every minute but it has been fun, a great learning adventure, and even the tanks were ok! It is kind of like nose rollers vs tail dragger...... REAL MEN ___________you choose______! I have had the opportunity to work on a quick build 7 and the work on the fuse and wing are first rate. Frank @ SGU and SLC >From: Richard Seiders >To: rv-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: RV-List: RV8 A - Quickbuild vs. Standard >Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2006 16:56:59 -0400 > >--> RV-List message posted by: Richard Seiders > >Against: $8000. > For: mega hours labor/headaches saved, alignment problems for fuse, >wings, and wing'fuse fit are a non issue. No fixtures required. Prepunched >panels/skins a big help, but QB still worth it in my opinion. > >Dick (Quickbuild RV6A completed and flying, and helping on a Quickbuild >7A). >do not archive > > >At 04:03 PM 9/10/2006, you wrote: >>--> RV-List message posted by: "Thilo Kind" >> >>Hi everybody, >> >>this is my first post on this list. I'm planning to build an RV 8A and >>will place the order as soon as I have my workshop organized. This won't >>be my first adventure into airplane building - I have already built a >>Zodiac CH 601 HDS. >> >>Have a question: what other arguements (besides cost and time saving) >>speak for or against the quickbuild kit versus the standard kit? >> >>Thanks >> >>Thilo Kind >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:44:58 PM PST US From: "Bob Collins" Subject: RE: RV-List: RV8 A - Quickbuild vs. Standard --> RV-List message posted by: "Bob Collins" The other thing I like about the slo-build. Every night when I close the garage door and just before turning out the light, I look back at this thing and I say, "*I* built that; every rivet. (OK, except the main wing spar). I can't tell you how cool that feels. (http://stirringsfromtheemptynest.blogspot.com/2006/07/right-here-provenzani .html). It's my $8,000 feeling. On the other hand, I know a guy who started his 7A just a little before I did and I think he went QB all the way. Five years later, he's about as far ahead of me -- not too much -- as we were five years ago. He had to do a QB, not because he wanted to get in the air fast -- although maybe he did -- but his lifestyle didn't allow for a slow build. Bottom line? Like so many things in RV building, there's no *right* answer. Bob St. Paul, Minn. ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:04:59 PM PST US From: Scott Lewis Subject: Re: RV-List: Gretz Aero Pitot Wiring --> RV-List message posted by: Scott Lewis Ralph, Will reply to you off list. Regards, Scott Lewis Ralph Hoover wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: Ralph Hoover > > I have a GA-1000 heated Pitot on back-order so I don't have the install > info yet. Does anyone have the details of the wiring required and the > panel indicator. I tried Stein Air and Warren Gretz, so far no answers. > RV7A Wiring > Ralph Hoover > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 10:12:53 PM PST US From: Al & Gail Herron Subject: RV-List: For Sale: Vetterman exhaust Due to a last-minute engine component change, I have available a brand-new Vetterman exhaust system that will fit an IO-360 with a Superior forward-facing composite sump. Complete as shipped, includes cabin heat muff. Fits an RV-7A; I'm reasonably certain it would also fit a -7. I paid $855, will sell for $750 and I'll pay the shipping. Please e-mail me direct to minimize List traffic. do not archive Al Herron RV-7A "Glue on" canopy complete, about to mis-wire the panel. ; ) ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 10:21:39 PM PST US From: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" Subject: RV-List: Fuel Pumps --> RV-List message posted by: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" These pumps are not rocket science but they are obviously "aircraft" parts because the price is about 10 TIMES what it ought to be. I ended up with an AFP fuel pump when Mattituck sent me my finished engine. I can't help but speculate that there HAS to be a similar pump in the auto racing world that can be used for this purpose. That pump will likely cost between 50-100 dollars and be of equal or better quality than a PMA stamped part (who knows maybe even AFP adapts one of these pumps). Not to knock the AFP system, it's likely the best mechanical system to be had today and Don Rivera's service is top notch. But... these ridiculous prices for simple and proven pumping technology is idiotic (like many old low tech aircraft parts). Anyone researched using an automotive racing pump (ie. Holley, Edelbrock, etc) for this purpose. Dean Psiropoulos RV-6A N197DM Always blown away by the cost of "aircraft" parts. >Subject: RE: RV-List: Curious >From: "BPA" > >The Airflow Performance boost pump is around 500.00 bucks. Lighweight, >simple in design and works. Everybody I know has problems with Duke >pumps and end up chucking them in the trash.