---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 09/18/06: 22 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:34 AM - Aviation pic of the weekend (Dana Overall) 2. 06:48 AM - Eliminating glare in photos. (Ron Lee) 3. 06:57 AM - Re: [Bulk] Unfortunate Mistake (David Maib) 4. 08:30 AM - Re: Eliminating glare in photos. (Rob Prior (rv7)) 5. 09:11 AM - 6a strut bolts (Charles Heathco) 6. 11:51 AM - Wing skin crack (Lonn Benson) 7. 01:02 PM - Re: Eliminating glare in photos. (RV6 Flyer) 8. 01:03 PM - Re: Unfortunate Mistake (pcowper@webtv.net (Pete Cowper)) 9. 02:59 PM - Who has the highest time on their RV? (John Jessen) 10. 03:40 PM - Flying with an open canopy (Ron Olmstead) 11. 03:59 PM - Re: Flying with an open canopy (Konrad L. Werner) 12. 05:09 PM - Re: Flying with an open canopy (scott bilinski) 13. 05:12 PM - Re: Who has the highest time on their RV? (RV6 Flyer) 14. 05:22 PM - Re: Wing skin crack (Bob Collins) 15. 06:15 PM - Re: Wing skin crack (Darrell Reiley) 16. 06:30 PM - Re: Wing skin crack (Kevin Horton) 17. 06:55 PM - Re: Van's Wheel Fairings (dick martin) 18. 06:59 PM - Re: Who has the highest time on their RV? (dick martin) 19. 07:19 PM - canopy latch (William Davis) 20. 08:43 PM - Re: Who has the highest time on their RV? (gbrasch) 21. 09:09 PM - Re: Re: Who has the highest time on their RV? (Henry) 22. 10:26 PM - Re: Re: Who has the highest time on their RV? (mark phipps) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:34:58 AM PST US From: "Dana Overall" Subject: RV-List: Aviation pic of the weekend --> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" Leaving out of Clermont Co. (Sporty's Pilot Shop), we saw the trial version of the federally funded Mexican border fence. Add a company of National Guard and you have a portion of the border secured. What a hoot, look close!! http://rvflying.tripod.com/fence.jpg Dana Overall Richmond, KY i39 RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic" O 360 A1A, C/S C2YK-1BF/F7666A4 http://rvflying.tripod.com/id30.html do not archive _________________________________________________________________ Call friends with PC-to-PC calling -- FREE http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/default.aspx?locale=en-us&source=wlmailtagline ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:48:14 AM PST US From: Ron Lee Subject: RV-List: Eliminating glare in photos. --> RV-List message posted by: Ron Lee When I first started taking pictures from my plane I was not aware of the effect of glare on the windshield or other similar surfaces. Ideally you could position everything to still have good lighting on the subject and no sun issues inside the cockpit but it happens. I am curious if anyone has found a way to eliminate reflections such as dark/black towels/cloth over everything. Ron Lee ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:57:05 AM PST US From: David Maib Subject: Re: [Bulk] RV-List: Unfortunate Mistake --> RV-List message posted by: David Maib Thanks to all for the help, suggestions, and advice. It now appears that this won't be as big a job to repair as I initially feared. I can't imagine building without these forums for information. BTW, my wings are now properly secured to the cradle! ^_^ David Maib RV-10 40559 tailcone (and right wing) On Sep 17, 2006, at 11:03 AM, Steve Eberhart wrote: --> RV-List message posted by: Steve Eberhart Find you a body man that is at least 60 years old. He will be able to hammer that out to the point you won't be able to tell were the damage was. It takes a good feel for what the metal is telling him and a good eye. The younger bondo slingers just don't have the touch. Steve Eberhart 60 year old RV-7A builder Bob J. wrote: > I've seen RV's with dents from bird strikes that weren't affected > at all in flight by dents far bigger than that one, so I > respectfully disagree with Kevin. I would make a form block out of > wood and try to work the dent out as best as you can from the > inboard side. If that doesn't work I'd remove the rib try to work > it out that way, and make a custom rib or cover plate in the rib. > If you're careful about how you remove the dent you will never > notice it with paint on the airplane. > > I have a friend with an RV-8 that had a severe dent in the leading > edge right on a rib, just outboard of the fuel tank. Much worse > than this one. It was creased right along the rib. He had an old- > timer metal man work the dent out, it took him all of 30 minutes to > accomplish. I was there and watched him do it, he made a form > block out of wood and gently pried it back into shape with a small > bottle jack and some blocks of wood inside the wing against the > spar (long story short). You cannot tell there was a dent, and > there was no body filler used. It was a very creative fix! > > Regards, > Bob Japundza > RV-6 flying, F1 under const. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:30:58 AM PST US From: "Rob Prior (rv7)" Subject: Re: RV-List: Eliminating glare in photos. --> RV-List message posted by: "Rob Prior (rv7)" On 6:47:38 2006-09-18 Ron Lee wrote: > I am curious if anyone has found a way to eliminate reflections > such as dark/black towels/cloth over everything. Funny you mention that, someone just posted a link to a photo of the "Mexican border fence" that has a lot of reflections in it, and I briefly debated replying with some advice. I've taken hundreds of photos from cockpits, and there isn't much you can do in a low wing airplane with a bubble canopy. The best possible situation is where the cockpit, all occupants, all occupants' clothing, and all seatbelts and cockpit contents, are black. Black doesn't reflect much in the windsreen. Anything not black will stand out if the sun hits it. Next best is to drape a piece of black felt over everything in the cockpit, but that gets warm and uncomfortable for the pilot after a while. Last, but not least, is to get a deep rubber lens hood, and put it right against the canopy, or very very close to the canopy. That will block any light from hitting the part of the canopy right in front of the lens, hence blocking said reflections. It does have a tendency to introduce vibration to your shot, so plan on a high shutter speed (1/500-1/1000 sec). A polarizer does work, sometimes, to remove reflections. The problem is that it usually only polarizes light coming from one narrow angle range at a time, and with a continuously curving canopy like on the RV's, you can't block it all out. But you can block the worst of it. Better yet, find a friend with a Cardinal for your air-to-air photography. Pull the passenger-side door off, the front passenger seat out, and harness yourself to the back seat supports. Works like a hot damn... no struts in the way, no windows in the way, nothing. And it's a hell of a lot of fun. :) -Rob ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:11:59 AM PST US From: "Charles Heathco" Subject: RV-List: 6a strut bolts I thought I would pass this on FWIT. I spronged my nose wheel last thur eve and was concerened about the result so I found two problems actually I dont think were related. I thing no harm done on the sprong, but Ifound that with the spacer washer on the axel, I had too much play on bearings so I took it off which resulted it it being a bit tight, but good and solid. I also found a bit of rotation on the nose strut in the engine mount and when I checked the bolt, I found it not much more that barley tight. I couldnt get a torque wrench on it so I tighted it to estimated "Guttentite". I then checked the mains and found them also pretty loose. You might want to check yours. Charlie Heathco ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:51:51 AM PST US From: "Lonn Benson" Subject: RV-List: Wing skin crack --> RV-List message posted by: "Lonn Benson" Hello everyone, I've been monitoring this list for several years now and have found it very useful while building my -8QB. I have never felt the need to post anything until now. I received word that the owner/builder of an -8A in my local area, (southwest Florida), has found a crack in the top skin of his left wing. The plane has been flown approx. 500 hours and the crack is located just outboard of the wing walk doubler, where the top skin is riveted to the rear spar. Specifically, the crack has started where the top skin overlays the doubler on the rear spar at the first rivet outboard of the doubler and has propagated outboard through the next three rivets. Has anyone else with higher time airframes noticed any skin cracks in this area? Apparently the builder contacted Vans and they were unaware of any problems from other builders and suggested that his skin might have contained flaws in that area. I am still several months away from final assembly and am wondering if I should do anything to avoid this potential problem before I hang the wings. Thanks, Lonn Benson RV-8QB (#81666) Osprey, Florida ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:02:09 PM PST US From: "RV6 Flyer" Subject: RE: RV-List: Eliminating glare in photos. --> RV-List message posted by: "RV6 Flyer" Ron: Nothing will get rid of 100% but a "Circular Polarizing" filter will remove most of it. http://www.offrench.net/photos/articles/polarizing_filter.php Gary A. Sobek "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell, 1,951 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA ----Original Message Follows---- From: Ron Lee Subject: RV-List: Eliminating glare in photos. --> RV-List message posted by: Ron Lee When I first started taking pictures from my plane I was not aware of the effect of glare on the windshield or other similar surfaces. Ideally you could position everything to still have good lighting on the subject and no sun issues inside the cockpit but it happens. I am curious if anyone has found a way to eliminate reflections such as dark/black towels/cloth over everything. Ron Lee ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 01:03:12 PM PST US From: pcowper@webtv.net (Pete Cowper) Subject: RV-List: Re: Unfortunate Mistake --> RV-List message posted by: pcowper@webtv.net (Pete Cowper) >"make a form block out of wood and try to work the dent out . . ." To help prevent the soft aluminum from stretching when doing body work, never use metal tools for both the hammer and dolly. If using a metal dolly, use a wood or plastic type hammer; likewise, if using a metal hammer, use a plastic or wood tool for a dolly. That will help prevent the aluminum from stretching. A hammer made from Delrin is very useful when working with aluminum. Pete Cowper RV8 #81139 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 02:59:00 PM PST US From: "John Jessen" Subject: RV-List: Who has the highest time on their RV? --> RV-List message posted by: "John Jessen" This may not be a question that folks want to answer, but after seeing Gary's 1,951 plus on his RV-6 (I assume it's on one plane), I wonder who has the most hours on their original bird? Anyone able to beat Gary? John J 40328 (tailcone) do not archive Gary A. Sobek "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell, 1,951 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 03:40:24 PM PST US From: "Ron Olmstead" Subject: RV-List: Flying with an open canopy Has anyone ever asked vans if they are developing a slider that can stay open in flight?? How about someone redesigning their slider to withstand open operation?? Sure seems like a logical next step for the vans line of aircraft...... This picture made me think of it... - Ron ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 03:59:16 PM PST US From: "Konrad L. Werner" Subject: Re: RV-List: Flying with an open canopy And to balance this proposed open cockpit for RV's, you would need bombs hanging under the RV too!!! I'd be all for it... ----- Original Message ----- do not archive From: Ron Olmstead To: rv-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 4:39 PM Subject: RV-List: Flying with an open canopy Has anyone ever asked vans if they are developing a slider that can stay open in flight?? How about someone redesigning their slider to withstand open operation?? Sure seems like a logical next step for the vans line of aircraft...... This picture made me think of it... - Ron ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 05:09:59 PM PST US From: scott bilinski Subject: Re: RV-List: Flying with an open canopy ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 05:12:56 PM PST US From: "RV6 Flyer" Subject: RE: RV-List: Who has the highest time on their RV? --> RV-List message posted by: "RV6 Flyer" 10 years ago, Bob Larcel RV-3, had over 2,700 hours same RV-3. Paul Rosales RV-6A N628PV = 2,500 hours same airplane and ENGINE. 3 years ago, Keith Livingston RV-4, 2,400 hours There are more, 3 years ago at Homecoming, they asked who had the highest time RVs, There were 4 or 5 RVs at Homecoming that year with more time that I did. I am still trying to catch them. Gary A. Sobek "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell, 1,951 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA DO NOT ARCHIVE ----Original Message Follows---- From: "John Jessen" Subject: RV-List: Who has the highest time on their RV? --> RV-List message posted by: "John Jessen" This may not be a question that folks want to answer, but after seeing Gary's 1,951 plus on his RV-6 (I assume it's on one plane), I wonder who has the most hours on their original bird? Anyone able to beat Gary? John J 40328 (tailcone) do not archive Gary A. Sobek "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell, 1,951 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 05:22:27 PM PST US From: "Bob Collins" Subject: RE: RV-List: Wing skin crack --> RV-List message posted by: "Bob Collins" I don't have the answer, but I do have a question. Why would someone wait on a crack and watch it gobble up three rivets rather than stop drill it right away? Bob Do Not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lonn Benson Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 1:51 PM Subject: RV-List: Wing skin crack --> RV-List message posted by: "Lonn Benson" Hello everyone, I've been monitoring this list for several years now and have found it very useful while building my -8QB. I have never felt the need to post anything until now. I received word that the owner/builder of an -8A in my local area, (southwest Florida), has found a crack in the top skin of his left wing. The plane has been flown approx. 500 hours and the crack is located just outboard of the wing walk doubler, where the top skin is riveted to the rear spar. Specifically, the crack has started where the top skin overlays the doubler on the rear spar at the first rivet outboard of the doubler and has propagated outboard through the next three rivets. Has anyone else with higher time airframes noticed any skin cracks in this area? Apparently the builder contacted Vans and they were unaware of any problems from other builders and suggested that his skin might have contained flaws in that area. I am still several months away from final assembly and am wondering if I should do anything to avoid this potential problem before I hang the wings. Thanks, Lonn Benson RV-8QB (#81666) Osprey, Florida ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 06:15:39 PM PST US From: Darrell Reiley Subject: RE: RV-List: Wing skin crack --> RV-List message posted by: Darrell Reiley I've seen this happen with holes not being deburred before being dimpled. A slight tear can occur when the dimple is set and then the crack can follow the line of the rivets or take another direction. Also, an incorrect matching angle issue from the rear spar to the skin can cause excess stress. Darrell Reiley RV7A "Reiley Rocket" N622DR Reserved N469RV Reserved CenTex_RV_Aircraft-owner@yahoogroups.com __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 06:30:37 PM PST US From: Kevin Horton Subject: Re: RV-List: Wing skin crack --> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton > --> RV-List message posted by: "Lonn Benson" > > Has anyone else with higher time airframes noticed any skin cracks > in this > area? Apparently the builder contacted Vans and they were unaware > of any > problems from other builders and suggested that his skin might have > contained flaws in that area. > > I am still several months away from final assembly and am wondering > if I > should do anything to avoid this potential problem before I hang > the wings. I've been a subscriber to the RV-List since 1997, and the Yahoo RV-8 list (and it predecessors) since it was first created. This is the first report I can recall of a crack in any of the wing skins. I think there was something unique about this situation. Either some damage, or a builder error, or some other major event that caused this. I wouldn't make any changes in this area. Trying to add more material to beef up the structure may change the load paths, and put more stress somewhere else. You could easily make more problems than you solve. Build on. Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) Ottawa, Canada http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 06:55:33 PM PST US From: "dick martin" Subject: Re: RV-List: Van's Wheel Fairings --> RV-List message posted by: "dick martin" Barry, I had Vans pants installed and flying first. I fitted Sam James pants and flew them. Inorder to determine the performance, which appeared to be faster, I reinstalled Vans pants and flew them and then removed them and flew the Sam James pants an hour later. The James pants were approx 5 knot faster +/- l knot.. Dick Martin RV8 N233M the fast one ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2006 6:54 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Van's Wheel Fairings > --> RV-List message posted by: FLYaDIVE@aol.com > > In a message dated 8/29/06 10:16:43 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > martin@gbonline.com writes: > > The Custom III series has a much stiffer tred and side casing and holds > its > shape even with a hard landing. > >> I tried Vans pressure recovery pants first and then went to Sam James >> pressure recovery pants because they went faster and looked better. >> Good luck with your project. >> Dick Martin >> RV8 N233M > ========================= > Dick: > > I can understand the looking better part. But, how much faster and how > did > you determine that? > > Barry > "Chop'd Liver" > > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 06:59:05 PM PST US From: "dick martin" Subject: Re: RV-List: Who has the highest time on their RV? --> RV-List message posted by: "dick martin" Listers, I cannot beat Gary, but I do have 1385 hours on my RV8 with 300 plus on my IO390X Lycoming engine with an Aero Composites Prop. Dick Martin RV8 N233M the fast one ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Jessen" Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 4:57 PM Subject: RV-List: Who has the highest time on their RV? > --> RV-List message posted by: "John Jessen" > > This may not be a question that folks want to answer, but after seeing > Gary's 1,951 plus on his RV-6 (I assume it's on one plane), I wonder who > has > the most hours on their original bird? Anyone able to beat Gary? > > John J > 40328 (tailcone) > > do not archive > > > Gary A. Sobek > "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell, > 1,951 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA > > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 07:19:24 PM PST US From: "William Davis" Subject: RV-List: canopy latch RV-8 Builders, I still have some of the RV-8 canopy latches available. For a complete write up & pix, see Sam Buchanan's web site http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal/rv8-latch.html All info there is still current except for the E mail address new address is below. Bill William Davis rvpilot@earthlink.net ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 08:43:41 PM PST US Subject: RV-List: Re: Who has the highest time on their RV? From: "gbrasch" --> RV-List message posted by: "gbrasch" What about Mike Seager? -------- Glenn Brasch RV-9A Finishing #90623 Tucson, Arizona Van's Aircraft Belt Buckles http://home.earthlink.net/~gbrasch/ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=62449#62449 ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 09:09:04 PM PST US From: Henry Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Who has the highest time on their RV? --> RV-List message posted by: Henry Some of those blackjack squadron guys based up at Arlington airport in WA probably have gobs of hours. Don't know that any of them are on-line, but someone might know. DO NOT ARCHIVE gbrasch wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: "gbrasch" > > What about Mike Seager? > > -------- > Glenn Brasch > RV-9A Finishing #90623 > Tucson, Arizona > Van's Aircraft Belt Buckles > http://home.earthlink.net/~gbrasch/ > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=62449#62449 > > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 10:26:04 PM PST US From: mark phipps Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Who has the highest time on their RV? When I flew transition training in Vans "Ol Blue" RV6A with Mike Seager in August 05, it had over 6000 hours on it and was on its third or fourth engine. Henry wrote: --> RV-List message posted by: Henry Some of those blackjack squadron guys based up at Arlington airport in WA probably have gobs of hours. Don't know that any of them are on-line, but someone might know. DO NOT ARCHIVE gbrasch wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: "gbrasch" > > What about Mike Seager? > > -------- > Glenn Brasch > RV-9A Finishing #90623 > Tucson, Arizona > Van's Aircraft Belt Buckles > http://home.earthlink.net/~gbrasch/ > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=62449#62449 > > > ---------------------------------