---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 09/26/06: 48 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:54 AM - Re: Van's steam gauges versus Dynon EFIS (Kevin Horton) 2. 04:18 AM - Re: Van's steam gauges versus Dynon EFIS (Pascal GROELL) 3. 06:42 AM - Re: Van's steam gauges versus Dynon EFIS (Doc Custer) 4. 07:00 AM - Re: Van's steam gauges versus Dynon EFIS (Sam Buchanan) 5. 07:14 AM - Re: DRDT-2 Table (LES KEARNEY) 6. 07:26 AM - Re: Re: DRDT-2 Table (UFOBUCK@aol.com) 7. 07:29 AM - Re: Van's steam gauges versus Dynon EFIS (Lockamy, Jack L) 8. 07:35 AM - Re: Van's steam gauges versus Dynon EFIS (D.Bristol) 9. 07:52 AM - Calculate altimeter setting from barometric pressure. (Amit Dagan) 10. 07:58 AM - Re: Re: DRDT-2 Table (Bob Collins) 11. 08:06 AM - Re: Re: DRDT-2 Table (Sherman Butler) 12. 08:09 AM - Re: Re: DRDT-2 Table (carlos) 13. 08:12 AM - Rocker switches/Annunciator Lamps (Fiveonepw@aol.com) 14. 08:13 AM - Re: Re: DRDT-2 Table (Lloyd, Daniel R.) 15. 08:19 AM - Re: Van's steam gauges versus Dynon EFIS (lessdragprod@aol.com) 16. 08:23 AM - Engine pre-heat & cell phone (sjhdcl@kingston.net) 17. 08:30 AM - Van's steam gauges versus Dynon EFIS (James H Nelson) 18. 08:31 AM - Re: Re: DRDT-2 Table (smitty@smittysrv.com) 19. 08:41 AM - Re: Rocker switches/Annunciator Lamps (Bruce Gray) 20. 08:49 AM - Re: Van's steam gauges versus Dynon EFIS (Doc Custer) 21. 09:16 AM - Re: Rocker switches/Annunciator Lamps (Wayne Cahoon) 22. 09:39 AM - Re: Re: DRDT-2 Table (John Jessen) 23. 12:32 PM - What avionics checks are required pre-inspecction: ? (was: Van's steam gauges versus Dynon EFIS) (Gerry Filby) 24. 01:10 PM - Re: What avionics checks are required pre-inspecction: ? (was: Van's steam gauges versus Dynon EFIS) (Dan Checkoway) 25. 01:13 PM - Re: Rocker switches/Annunciator Lamps (J2j3h4@aol.com) 26. 01:32 PM - Re: Rocker switches/Annunciator Lamps (Dickk9@aol.com) 27. 03:08 PM - Registration/Certification (Jerry2DT@aol.com) 28. 03:37 PM - Re: Van's gauges vs Dynon (ALTIMETRY) () 29. 04:46 PM - Re: Re: Van's gauges vs Dynon (ALTIMETRY) (Larry Pardue) 30. 06:11 PM - Re: Registration/Certification (Tim Bryan) 31. 06:12 PM - Governor/ Prop operation (Tim Bryan) 32. 06:17 PM - Re: Rocker switches/Annunciator Lamps (DOUGPFLYRV@aol.com) 33. 06:37 PM - But wait...Re: DRDT-2 Table (davcor@comcast.net) 34. 06:46 PM - Re: Governor/ Prop operation (Chuck) 35. 06:58 PM - Re: Re: DRDT-2 Table (Sherman Butler) 36. 07:07 PM - Re: Governor/ Prop operation (Denis Walsh) 37. 07:47 PM - Re: Engine pre-heat & cell phone (Bobby Hester) 38. 08:13 PM - Re: Re: DRDT-2 Table (David Maib) 39. 08:14 PM - Re: But wait...Re: DRDT-2 Table (Dan Checkoway) 40. 08:25 PM - Re: But wait...Re: DRDT-2 Table (DonVS) 41. 08:49 PM - Dan's Website was Re: But wait...Re: DRDT-2 Table (LES KEARNEY) 42. 08:50 PM - Re: But wait...Re: DRDT-2 Table (David Maib) 43. 08:50 PM - Re: But wait...Re: DRDT-2 Table (Dan Checkoway) 44. 09:15 PM - Re: But wait...Re: DRDT-2 Table (DonVS) 45. 09:46 PM - hammer? no no no it was the gun (davcor@comcast.net) 46. 10:15 PM - Re: Rocker switches/Annunciator Lamps (WILLIAM AGSTER) 47. 10:28 PM - Re: Dan's Website was Re: But wait...Re: DRDT-2 Table (Dan Checkoway) 48. 10:40 PM - Hartzell AD 2006-18-15 09/25/06 (David Schaefer) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:54:44 AM PST US From: Kevin Horton Subject: Re: RV-List: Van's steam gauges versus Dynon EFIS --> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton Ah. Sorry about the confusion. Let's assume that your digital weather station is accurate. Does it correct for field elevation, or does it provide a raw barometric pressure? If it is providing a raw barometric pressure, then a reading of 29.92 represents the pressure you would expect to see at sea level on a standard day. If you put in an altimeter setting of 29.92, you have just told your altimeter that the pressure at the field elevation is the same as a standard day at that altitude. So, the altimeter is seeing a pressure of 29.92, and it should display sea level (0 ft), as that is the altitude at which the pressure would be 29.92, on a standard day. In this case your steam driven altimeter is closer than the Dynon. If your weather station corrects for field elevation, then the Dynon is probably closer than the steam driven one. But, both altimeters have means to adjust them to correct for small errors. The Dynon has a setup menu item, and the steam driven altimeter has a way to change the relationship between altitude and altimeter setting. These small errors will be corrected when you have your static system check done. Kevin On 25 Sep 2006, at 23:02, Gerry Filby wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: Gerry Filby > > > The original poster was I :-) > > The pressure - 29.92 - was read off a digital weather station > located on the field at 66 feet ASL (my personal one, nothing > to do with the airfield). I was reasoning that since I was > more-or-less at sea level (66 feet ASL) and the barometer was > reading 29.92, this must be a "standard pressure" day ... > therefore the altimeters should be reading the actual altitude > of the field - 66 feet. The Dynon EFIS read 62 feet and the > steam gauge read minus 20 - thus the steam gauge is almost 90 > feet out. I think ... ~(:-|) > > g > > >> >> --> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton >> >> All he is saying is that there is a difference between barometric >> pressure and altimeter setting. The original poster used the term >> barometer. If he read a barometer, and it was at 29.92, then the >> altimeter setting would almost certainly have been something other >> than 29.92. For example, if the pressure was as per the standard >> atmosphere, the altimeter setting would be 29.92. The barometric >> pressure at sea level would be 29.92 in HG. The barometric pressure >> at 66 ft would be 29.85 in HG. So, if the barometric pressure at 66 >> ft was actually 29.92, that implies the pressure was higher than >> standard, and the altimeter setting would be greater than 29.92. >> >> Note: the weather folks also publish barometric pressures which are >> the station pressure, corrected to sea level. But even these values >> are not the same as an altimeter setting. The difference between the >> station pressure corrected to sea level and the altimeter setting >> will depend on the air density, which also depends on the temperature >> and humidity, as mentioned earlier. >> >> I'm hoping the original poster actually used an altimeter setting, >> and that it came from a credible source (e.g. a control tower). If >> it came from a less credible source, then the altimeter setting may >> have been in error. >> >> Kevin Horton >> >> On 25 Sep 2006, at 20:00, Gerry Filby wrote: >> >>> --> RV-List message posted by: Gerry Filby >>> >>> >>> Hmm, so you're suggesting that the Dynon is making those >>> corrections ? It does have an OAT temperature sensor, but >>> obviously not a humidity sensor. >>> >>> The two instruments have consistently differed by about 80 feet >>> .. >>> >>> g >>> >>>> >>>> If you are just taking the reading from a physical barometer >>>> and setting >>>> that in the window of your steam gauge, you will almost >>>> certainly not get the >>>> correct altitude. That reading must be corrected for >>>> temperature and humidity. >>>> The reading you get from AWOS or other FAA weather source has >>>> this >>>> correction made. For an explanation see >>>> _http://www.exploratorium.edu/weather/barometer.html_ >>>> (http://www.exploratorium.edu/weather/barometer.html) >>>> >>>> Jim Hasper >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> In a message dated 9/25/2006 4:45:42 P.M. Central Daylight Time, >>>> gerf@gerf.com writes: >>>> >>>> --> RV-List message posted by: Gerry Filby >>>> >>>> >>>> At one point this weekend the barometer at the field where I'm >>>> building was exactly 29.92 - the Dyon EFIS read 62 feet, the >>>> official field elevation is 66 feet. I also installed one of >>>> Van's "steam gauge" Altimeters - supposedly a fallback >>>> instrument if my wiring/plumbing goes belly up on the first >>>> flight. The steam gauge reads minus 20 feet :-\ >>>> >>>> I know which gauge will be junked out of my panel at the first >>>> opportunity ... >>>> >>>> __g__ >>>> >>>> >> >> Kevin Horton >> Ottawa, Canada >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > -- > __g__ > > ========================================================= > Gerry Filby gerf@gerf.com > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > Kevin Horton Ottawa, Canada ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:18:30 AM PST US From: Pascal GROELL Subject: Re: RV-List: Van's steam gauges versus Dynon EFIS --> RV-List message posted by: Pascal GROELL Just to add a bit more. It would have been interesting to make a reading by having the altimeter set to the QNH. The QNH being the pressure you have to set on the altimeter to read the field's altitude on the altimeter. (the QNH being rarely if never equal to the real sea level pressure due to the difference in density between the ideal standard atmosphere between sea level and the airport and the real atmosphere we have out there). By being not to precise one could say that your QNH whas around 29.92 + 0.06 (for 66ft) : 29.98. By tuning the altimeter to 29.98 your reading would have gone up around 66ft (all this is not exactly exact due to density adjustments no being taken into account)and I concurr with Kevin the mechanical altimeter would have been nearer to the real altitude than the Dynon. To finish two remarks : - on my big aircraft (Airbus A330 and A340) the tolerance is +- 25ft between normal altimeters on the ground and +-200ft between those altimeters and standby altimeter. - it is quite difficult to understand how altimeters truly work, but try to be aware that this is a very "tricky" instrument, using a standard table for reference when the atmosphere is never standard. And we use settings which are sometimes not fully understood (QNH shows the airports altitude when set on the altimeter and aircraft on the ground, in France we sometimes use QFE which shows 0 when set on the altimeter and aircraft on ground). Those settings are correlated to measured barometric pressure but are obtained after some calculation or reading in a table. For example you can try to solve the following little puzzle : two airfields are only a few miles apart. Field A altitude is 275ft, field B altitude is 1900ft. Temperature throughout the whole atmosphere is ISA + 20 Celsius. QNH at A is 30,47 inHg. What would the QNH be at field B? Same as in A, more or less? Pascal Kevin Horton a crit : > --> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton > > Ah. Sorry about the confusion. > > Let's assume that your digital weather station is accurate. Does it > correct for field elevation, or does it provide a raw barometric > pressure? If it is providing a raw barometric pressure, then a > reading of 29.92 represents the pressure you would expect to see at > sea level on a standard day. If you put in an altimeter setting of > 29.92, you have just told your altimeter that the pressure at the > field elevation is the same as a standard day at that altitude. So, > the altimeter is seeing a pressure of 29.92, and it should display sea > level (0 ft), as that is the altitude at which the pressure would be > 29.92, on a standard day. In this case your steam driven altimeter is > closer than the Dynon. > > If your weather station corrects for field elevation, then the Dynon > is probably closer than the steam driven one. > > But, both altimeters have means to adjust them to correct for small > errors. The Dynon has a setup menu item, and the steam driven > altimeter has a way to change the relationship between altitude and > altimeter setting. These small errors will be corrected when you have > your static system check done. > > Kevin > > > On 25 Sep 2006, at 23:02, Gerry Filby wrote: > >> --> RV-List message posted by: Gerry Filby >> >> >> The original poster was I :-) >> >> The pressure - 29.92 - was read off a digital weather station >> located on the field at 66 feet ASL (my personal one, nothing >> to do with the airfield). I was reasoning that since I was >> more-or-less at sea level (66 feet ASL) and the barometer was >> reading 29.92, this must be a "standard pressure" day ... >> therefore the altimeters should be reading the actual altitude >> of the field - 66 feet. The Dynon EFIS read 62 feet and the >> steam gauge read minus 20 - thus the steam gauge is almost 90 >> feet out. I think ... ~(:-|) >> >> g >> >> >>> >>> --> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton >>> >>> All he is saying is that there is a difference between barometric >>> pressure and altimeter setting. The original poster used the term >>> barometer. If he read a barometer, and it was at 29.92, then the >>> altimeter setting would almost certainly have been something other >>> than 29.92. For example, if the pressure was as per the standard >>> atmosphere, the altimeter setting would be 29.92. The barometric >>> pressure at sea level would be 29.92 in HG. The barometric pressure >>> at 66 ft would be 29.85 in HG. So, if the barometric pressure at 66 >>> ft was actually 29.92, that implies the pressure was higher than >>> standard, and the altimeter setting would be greater than 29.92. >>> >>> Note: the weather folks also publish barometric pressures which are >>> the station pressure, corrected to sea level. But even these values >>> are not the same as an altimeter setting. The difference between the >>> station pressure corrected to sea level and the altimeter setting >>> will depend on the air density, which also depends on the temperature >>> and humidity, as mentioned earlier. >>> >>> I'm hoping the original poster actually used an altimeter setting, >>> and that it came from a credible source (e.g. a control tower). If >>> it came from a less credible source, then the altimeter setting may >>> have been in error. >>> >>> Kevin Horton >>> >>> On 25 Sep 2006, at 20:00, Gerry Filby wrote: >>> >>>> --> RV-List message posted by: Gerry Filby >>>> >>>> >>>> Hmm, so you're suggesting that the Dynon is making those >>>> corrections ? It does have an OAT temperature sensor, but >>>> obviously not a humidity sensor. >>>> >>>> The two instruments have consistently differed by about 80 feet >>>> .. >>>> >>>> g >>>> >>>>> >>>>> If you are just taking the reading from a physical barometer >>>>> and setting >>>>> that in the window of your steam gauge, you will almost >>>>> certainly not get the >>>>> correct altitude. That reading must be corrected for >>>>> temperature and humidity. >>>>> The reading you get from AWOS or other FAA weather source has this >>>>> correction made. For an explanation see >>>>> _http://www.exploratorium.edu/weather/barometer.html_ >>>>> (http://www.exploratorium.edu/weather/barometer.html) >>>>> >>>>> Jim Hasper >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> In a message dated 9/25/2006 4:45:42 P.M. Central Daylight Time, >>>>> gerf@gerf.com writes: >>>>> >>>>> --> RV-List message posted by: Gerry Filby >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> At one point this weekend the barometer at the field where I'm >>>>> building was exactly 29.92 - the Dyon EFIS read 62 feet, the >>>>> official field elevation is 66 feet. I also installed one of >>>>> Van's "steam gauge" Altimeters - supposedly a fallback >>>>> instrument if my wiring/plumbing goes belly up on the first >>>>> flight. The steam gauge reads minus 20 feet :-\ >>>>> >>>>> I know which gauge will be junked out of my panel at the first >>>>> opportunity ... >>>>> >>>>> __g__ >>>>> >>>>> >>> >>> Kevin Horton >>> Ottawa, Canada >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> --__g__ >> >> ========================================================= >> Gerry Filby gerf@gerf.com >> ---------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> >> > > Kevin Horton > Ottawa, Canada > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:42:24 AM PST US From: "Doc Custer" Subject: Re: RV-List: Van's steam gauges versus Dynon EFIS The barometric altimeter "computes" the altitude using the correlation between air pressure and altitude; there are lots of opportunity for error. The GPS computes altitude based on the satellite information. The GPS should be real close to the actual elevation. Barometric altimeter error rapidly builds as it moves away (distance and time) from the corrected reporting station. That is why ATC or FS always gives you the closest reporting station altimeter reading when you contact them. Since the difference between your barometric altimeter and the GPS if fairly constant, I would suspect that there is some kind of mechanical error in the barometric altimeter. Aircraft altimeters coming out of the shop should be within some specified error. There has to be some tolerance. It is unusual to find any science based instrument with no error. The error should be small, however. Anyone out there know the tolerance for a VFR/IFR altimeter. I know it varies with the altitude. Doc Custer Retired software engineer and sometime Audiologist Building RV9-A. Fuselage ----- Original Message ----- From: J2j3h4@aol.com To: rv-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 11:31 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Van's steam gauges versus Dynon EFIS I believe the Dynon is determining altitude by GPS. The following is a quote from the Dynon Forum: GPS altitudes will not necessarily compare to barometric altitudes. They will only be the same if the atmosphere is at standard temperature all the way from the ground to the test altitude, which is never the case. While it is quite possible that your mechanical altimeter DOES have an error, you won't know that until you set it using a corrected barometer reading from an FAA weather report. Even if you were AT sea level, you still wouldn't have a standard reading unless the temperature and humidity were also at standard conditions. Jim Hasper In a message dated 9/25/2006 7:03:03 P.M. Central Daylight Time, gerf@gerf.com writes: --> RV-List message posted by: Gerry Filby Hmm, so you're suggesting that the Dynon is making those corrections ? It does have an OAT temperature sensor, but obviously not a humidity sensor. The two instruments have consistently differed by about 80 feet .. g > > If you are just taking the reading from a physical barometer > and setting > that in the window of your steam gauge, you will almost > certainly not get the > correct altitude. That reading must be corrected for > temperature and humidity. > The reading you get from AWOS or other FAA weather source has this > correction made. For an explanation see > _http://www.exploratorium.edu/weather/barometer.html_ > (http://www.exploratorium.edu/weather/barometer.html) > > Jim Hasper > > > > In a message dated 9/25/2006 4:45:42 P.M. Central Daylight Time, > gerf@gerf.com writes: > > --> RV-List message posted by: Gerry Filby > > > At one point this weekend the barometer at the field where I'm > building was exactly 29.92 - the Dyon EFIS read 62 feet, the > official field elevation is 66 feet. I also installed one of > Van's "steam gauge" Altimeters - supposedly a fallback > instrument if my wiring/plumbing goes belly up on the first > flight. The steam gauge reads minus 20 feet :-\ > > I know which gauge will be junked out of my panel at the first > opportunity ... > > __g__ > > -- __g__ ======== Gerry Filby gerf@gerf.com ---------------------------------------------------------es Day --> - NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - bsp; --> nbsp; - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI - ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:00:29 AM PST US From: Sam Buchanan Subject: Re: RV-List: Van's steam gauges versus Dynon EFIS --> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan J2j3h4@aol.com wrote: > > I believe the Dynon is determining altitude by GPS. The Dynon does not use GPS for any of its calculations. It has pressure transducers for both altimeter and airspeed solutions. Sam Buchanan ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:14:04 AM PST US From: LES KEARNEY Subject: RV-List: Re: DRDT-2 Table --> RV-List message posted by: LES KEARNEY Hi In anticipation of ordering an empennage kit on Tuesday next, I have been busy getting my workspace ready. To that end I have built two regulation EAA work tables and now would like to build a table / stand for a DRDT-2 dimplier. Does anyone have plans for such a beast so I can build the table in advance of receiving my tool order? Many thanks Les RV10 Wannabe ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:26:05 AM PST US From: UFOBUCK@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: DRDT-2 Table In a message dated 9/26/2006 9:16:50 A.M. Central Daylight Time, Kearney@shaw.ca writes: .....To that end I have built two regulation EAA work tables ..... There is an EAA regulation to the size of my work benches ???? This is getting too complicated. %-) ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:29:30 AM PST US Subject: Re: RV-List: Van's steam gauges versus Dynon EFIS From: "Lockamy, Jack L" Gerry, Before the first flight in my RV-7A, I had the airspeed indicator, altimeter and transponder checked for IFR tolerances. The Dynon EFIS-D10 was right-on altitude and within 2-3 KTS accuracy on airspeed from S/L up to 40KFT. The mechanic doing the certification test was extremely impressed with the accuracy of the Dynon EFIS-D10. You can also adjust the Dynon altimeter up/down in 10 foot increments to correct any errors that may be present. Mine is set at "0" and is nuts on.... The same can not be said for the Van's/UMA back-up steam gauges I installed. The airspeed indicator has a 10 KT fast error that can not be adjusted. The altimeter was over 300 FT off but CAN be adjusted. There is a small screw just left of the adjustment knob on the altimeter. If I remember correctly, I adjusted the altimeter to the known field elevation, loosen the screw, then turn the adjustment knob to the correct barometric reading (ie. 29.92, etc.) in the window. Once the field elevation and the current barometric reading are both correct.... tighten the adjustment screw and you are good to go... Jack Lockamy RV-7A N174JL (240 hrs) Camarillo, CA www.jacklockamy.com ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:35:37 AM PST US From: "D.Bristol" Subject: Re: RV-List: Van's steam gauges versus Dynon EFIS The altitude that the air traffic system uses is based on the air pressure that is measured by the barometric altimeter, not on the true altitude that you get from GPS. When ATC tells you to fly at 8000 feet, they're talking about pressure altitude, not actual altitude. So, unless the GPS altitude is somehow corrected for pressure, you'll be at the wrong altitude when using the GPS altimeter. Dave EAA Technical Counselor Doc Custer wrote: > The barometric altimeter "computes" the altitude using the correlation > between air pressure and altitude; there are lots of opportunity for > error. The GPS computes altitude based on the satellite information. > The GPS should be real close to the actual elevation. > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:52:44 AM PST US From: "Amit Dagan" Subject: RV-List: Calculate altimeter setting from barometric pressure. --> RV-List message posted by: "Amit Dagan" // convert the sensed pressure to the altimeter setting: // // http://www.srh.noaa.gov/elp/wxcalc/formulas/altimeterSetting.html // // Alt = (p - 0.3) * (1 + K * (h / (p - 0.3)^^E))^^(1.0 / E) // E = 0.190284; // K = 1013.25^^E * 0.0065 / 288 = 8.4229e-5 // // where // // p = station pressure in millibars // h = station elevation in meters // Alt will be in millibars. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:58:43 AM PST US From: "Bob Collins" Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: DRDT-2 Table --> RV-List message posted by: "Bob Collins" Here you go http://www.experimentalaero.com/DRDT-2%20Manual%20&%20Drawings.pdf Bob Collins RV Builder's Hotline http://home.comcast.net/~rvnewsletter/ ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:06:03 AM PST US From: Sherman Butler Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: DRDT-2 Table Les, This is the table I made. The EAA tables are level with adn suppor the work. LES KEARNEY wrote: --> RV-List message posted by: LES KEARNEY Hi In anticipation of ordering an empennage kit on Tuesday next, I have been busy getting my workspace ready. To that end I have built two regulation EAA work tables and now would like to build a table / stand for a DRDT-2 dimplier. Does anyone have plans for such a beast so I can build the table in advance of receiving my tool order? Many thanks Les RV10 Wannabe Sherman Butler RV-7a Wings Idaho Falls --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:09:50 AM PST US From: carlos Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: DRDT-2 Table --> RV-List message posted by: carlos LES KEARNEY wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: LES KEARNEY > > Hi > > In anticipation of ordering an empennage kit on Tuesday next, I have been busy getting my workspace ready. To that end I have built two regulation EAA work tables and now would like to build a table / stand for a DRDT-2 dimplier. > > Does anyone have plans for such a beast so I can build the table in advance of receiving my tool order? > > Many thanks > > Les > > RV10 Wannabe > > > > Here you go. http://www.experimentalaero.com/DRDT-2%20Manual%20&%20Drawings.pdf Carlos RV7A N174PP "Pretty Penny" -- Carlos Hernandez Structural Engineers, LLC 2111 E. Broadway Rd. - Suite 3 Tempe, AZ 85282 Phone: 480.968.8600 Fax: 480.968.8608 www.sec-engr.com ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:12:51 AM PST US From: Fiveonepw@aol.com Subject: RV-List: Rocker switches/Annunciator Lamps Howdy, Listers- Can anyone recommend a source for the rectangular rocker switches I've seen on many aircraft (illuminated preferably with LEDs) with the legends engraved or printed on them? I'd also like to find some square lamps of similar appearance to use as annunciator lamps. What would be perfect would be lamps that are also illuminated pushbuttons (momentary) so they can be wired with a push-to-test feature. No joy on usual suspects (ACS, Wicks, and WAY too much time googling, which is getting to be like "fishing for trout in a landfill"- even tried some street rod sites, etc.) Thanks Mark Phillips do not archive ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:13:56 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: DRDT-2 Table From: "Lloyd, Daniel R." Here is a copy of the plans you will get from Experimentalaero when you purchase your DRDT-2 Dan 40269 (N289DT) -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of LES KEARNEY Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 10:13 AM Subject: RV-List: Re: DRDT-2 Table --> RV-List message posted by: LES KEARNEY Hi In anticipation of ordering an empennage kit on Tuesday next, I have been busy getting my workspace ready. To that end I have built two regulation EAA work tables and now would like to build a table / stand for a DRDT-2 dimplier. Does anyone have plans for such a beast so I can build the table in advance of receiving my tool order? Many thanks Les RV10 Wannabe ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 08:19:48 AM PST US Subject: Re: RV-List: Van's steam gauges versus Dynon EFIS From: lessdragprod@aol.com There are three different altitudes commonly used in aviation. 1.) Below 18,000' the station pressure is used to adjust the altimeter for local variations in pressure. 2.) Above 18.000' a pressure setting of 29.92 is used. This is also called the pressure altitude. 3.) Density altitude. The pressure altitude can be adjusted for the OAT to obtain the density altitude. The Dynon with an OAT can provide the density altitude readout. Density altitude is used for performance flight testing. (Station altitude and pressure altitude, by themselves, are useless for performance testing.) I understand that GPS horizontal position is supposed to be accurate within 60 feet. And the vertical position is less accurate. Our pilot training provided a common altimeter base so we would be likely to have the same altitude reference while flying. Doing flight performance testing at a fixed density altitude can be interesting, since the station altitude can be 2,000' different. Regards, Jim Ayers -----Original Message----- From: J2j3h4@aol.com Sent: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 10:31 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Van's steam gauges versus Dynon EFIS I believe the Dynon is determining altitude by GPS. The following is a quote from the Dynon Forum: GPS altitudes will not necessarily compare to barometric altitudes. They will only be the same if the atmosphere is at standard temperature all the way from the ground to the test altitude, which is never the case. While it is quite possible that your mechanical altimeter DOES have an error, you won't know that until you set it using a corrected barometer reading from an FAA weather report. Even if you were AT sea level, you still wouldn't have a standard reading unless the temperature and humidity were also at standard conditions. Jim Hasper In a message dated 9/25/2006 7:03:03 P.M. Central Daylight Time, gerf@gerf.com writes: --> RV-List message posted by: Gerry Filby Hmm, so you're suggesting that the Dynon is making those corrections ? It does have an OAT temperature sensor, but obviously not a humidity sensor. The two instruments have consistently differed by about 80 feet .. g > > If you are just taking the reading from a physical barometer > and setting > that in the window of your steam gauge, you will almost > certainly not get the > correct altitude. That reading must be corrected for > temperature and humidity. > The reading you get from AWOS or other FAA weather source has this > correction made. For an explanation see > _http://www.exploratorium.edu/weather/barometer.html_ > (http://www.exploratorium.edu/weather/barometer.html) > > Jim Hasper > > > > In a message dated 9/25/2006 4:45:42 P.M. Central Daylight Time, > gerf@gerf.com writes: > > --> RV-List message posted by: Gerry Filby > > > At one point this weekend the barometer at the field where I'm > building was exactly 29.92 - the Dyon EFIS read 62 feet, the > official field elevation is 66 feet. I also installed one of > Van's "steam gauge" Altimeters - supposedly a fallback > instrument if my wiring/plumbing goes belly up on the first > flight. The steam gauge reads minus 20 feet :-\ > > I know which gauge will be junked out of my panel at the first > opportunity ... > > __g__ > > -- __g__ ================================= Gerry Filby gerf@gerf.com ---------------------------------------------------------es Day --> - NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - bsp; --> nbsp; - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI - ________________________________________________________________________ Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:23:15 AM PST US Subject: RV-List: Engine pre-heat & cell phone From: sjhdcl@kingston.net --> RV-List message posted by: sjhdcl@kingston.net Anybody use a cell phone to turn on a timer at the hanger? I would like to use this to start the engine pre-heater. Internet is not a option in this WWII hanger. Thanks Steve RV7A ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 08:30:19 AM PST US Subject: RV-List: Van's steam gauges versus Dynon EFIS From: James H Nelson --> RV-List message posted by: James H Nelson Gerry, I use to be an instrument instructor in the Army for helicopter pilots. Our rule was if the "K" factor was 7 or less, to note it on our flight plan and apply that correction factor to any barrometric reading while in flight. 29.75 +,- .07 is an example of acceptable. More than the 7 points was reason to have the altimeter replaced. Of course this is only my opinion and is for my use only as a disclaimer. Jim Nelson ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 08:31:54 AM PST US From: "smitty@smittysrv.com" Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: DRDT-2 Table --> RV-List message posted by: "smitty@smittysrv.com" Yeah, and you have to spend a minimum of 5.25 hours in construction on the tables, take pictures and get a DAR sign off. (jes' kidding) do not archive Smitty's RV http://SmittysRV.com Original Message: ----------------- From: UFOBUCK@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: DRDT-2 Table In a message dated 9/26/2006 9:16:50 A.M. Central Daylight Time, Kearney@shaw.ca writes: .....To that end I have built two regulation EAA work tables ..... There is an EAA regulation to the size of my work benches ???? This is getting too complicated. %-) -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 08:41:02 AM PST US From: "Bruce Gray" Subject: RE: RV-List: Rocker switches/Annunciator Lamps Honeywell Microswitch. http://catalog.sensing.honeywell.com/datasheet.asp?PN=AML34FBA4AA01 &FAM=pki&P=4532,5576 Bruce www.glasair.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fiveonepw@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 11:12 AM Subject: RV-List: Rocker switches/Annunciator Lamps Howdy, Listers- Can anyone recommend a source for the rectangular rocker switches I've seen on many aircraft (illuminated preferably with LEDs) with the legends engraved or printed on them? I'd also like to find some square lamps of similar appearance to use as annunciator lamps. What would be perfect would be lamps that are also illuminated pushbuttons (momentary) so they can be wired with a push-to-test feature. No joy on usual suspects (ACS, Wicks, and WAY too much time googling, which is getting to be like "fishing for trout in a landfill"- even tried some street rod sites, etc.) Thanks Mark Phillips do not archive ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 08:49:16 AM PST US From: "Doc Custer" Subject: Re: RV-List: Van's steam gauges versus Dynon EFIS Good to know. Doc Custer Retired software engineer and sometime Audiologist Building RV9-A. Fuselage ----- Original Message ----- From: D.Bristol To: rv-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 8:34 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Van's steam gauges versus Dynon EFIS The altitude that the air traffic system uses is based on the air pressure that is measured by the barometric altimeter, not on the true altitude that you get from GPS. When ATC tells you to fly at 8000 feet, they're talking about pressure altitude, not actual altitude. So, unless the GPS altitude is somehow corrected for pressure, you'll be at the wrong altitude when using the GPS altimeter. Dave EAA Technical Counselor Doc Custer wrote: The barometric altimeter "computes" the altitude using the correlation between air pressure and altitude; there are lots of opportunity for error. The GPS computes altitude based on the satellite information. The GPS should be real close to the actual elevation. ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 09:16:38 AM PST US From: "Wayne Cahoon" Subject: Re: RV-List: Rocker switches/Annunciator Lamps Aircraft Engravers can engrave the rocker switch operators with what ever text you need. See http://engravers.net/aircraft/rocker_switches.htm Wayne Cahoon Aircraft Engravers (860) 653-2780 ph (860) 653-7324 fax http://www.engravers.net/ ----- Original Message ----- From: Fiveonepw@aol.com To: rv-list@matronics.com ; aeroelectric-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 11:11 AM Subject: RV-List: Rocker switches/Annunciator Lamps Howdy, Listers- Can anyone recommend a source for the rectangular rocker switches I've seen on many aircraft (illuminated preferably with LEDs) with the legends engraved or printed on them? I'd also like to find some square lamps of similar appearance to use as annunciator lamps. What would be perfect would be lamps that are also illuminated pushbuttons (momentary) so they can be wired with a push-to-test feature. No joy on usual suspects (ACS, Wicks, and WAY too much time googling, which is getting to be like "fishing for trout in a landfill"- even tried some street rod sites, etc.) Thanks Mark Phillips do not archive ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 09:39:10 AM PST US From: "John Jessen" Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: DRDT-2 Table Did you save the cutting list? Nice job! John Jessen RV-10 do not archive _____ From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sherman Butler Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 8:05 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: DRDT-2 Table Les, This is the table I made. The EAA tables are level with adn suppor the work. LES KEARNEY wrote: --> RV-List message posted by: LES KEARNEY Hi In anticipation of ordering an empennage kit on Tuesday next, I have been busy getting my workspace ready. To that end I have built two regulation EAA work tables and now would like to build a table / stand for a DRDT-2 dimplier. Does anyone have plans for such a beast so I can build the table in advance of receiving my tool order? Many thanks Les RV10 Wannabe Sherman Butler RV-7a Wings Idaho Falls ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 12:32:08 PM PST US Subject: RV-List: What avionics checks are required pre-inspecction: ? (was: Van's steam gauges versus Dynon EFIS) From: Gerry Filby --> RV-List message posted by: Gerry Filby (Yikes ! No wonder people end up flying into the side of a mountain. Thanks for the heads up on the available adjustment - that's helpfull.) Can anyone point me in the right direction for a list of the (certified?) avionics checks that have to be done and documented before I call over the DAR ? I'm flying VFR, but I'd happily go the extra mile and come up to IFR standard just for the safety margin. Thx g > Gerry, > > Before the first flight in my RV-7A, I had the airspeed > indicator, altimeter and transponder checked for IFR > tolerances. The Dynon EFIS-D10 was right-on altitude and within > 2-3 KTS accuracy on airspeed from S/L up to 40KFT. The > mechanic doing the certification test was extremely impressed > with the accuracy of the Dynon EFIS-D10. You can also adjust > the Dynon altimeter up/down in 10 foot increments to correct > any errors that may be present. Mine is set at "0" and is nuts > on.... > > The same can not be said for the Van's/UMA back-up steam gauges > I installed. The airspeed indicator has a 10 KT fast error > that can not be adjusted. The altimeter was over 300 FT off but > CAN be adjusted. There is a small screw just left of the > adjustment knob on the altimeter. If I remember correctly, I > adjusted the altimeter to the known field elevation, loosen the > screw, then turn the adjustment knob to the correct barometric > reading (ie. 29.92, etc.) in the window. Once the field > elevation and the current barometric reading are both > correct.... tighten the adjustment screw and you are good to > go... > > Jack Lockamy > RV-7A N174JL (240 hrs) > Camarillo, CA > www.jacklockamy.com > -- __g__ ========================================================== Gerry Filby gerf@gerf.com ---------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 01:10:42 PM PST US From: "Dan Checkoway" Subject: Re: RV-List: What avionics checks are required pre-inspecction: ? (was: Van's steam gauges versus Dynon EFIS) --> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" > Can anyone point me in the right direction for a list of the > (certified?) avionics checks that have to be done and > documented before I call over the DAR ? I'm flying VFR, but I'd > happily go the extra mile and come up to IFR standard just for > the safety margin. Gary Sobek has a good checklist on his AB-DAR web site: http://www.rvdar.com/ Click "What You Need" and you'll see what I mean. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D "Priorities" www.rvproject.com / www.weathermeister.com ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 01:13:11 PM PST US From: J2j3h4@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Rocker switches/Annunciator Lamps You may want to check out _http://www.waytekwire.com/_ (http://www.waytekwire.com/) They seem to make high quality automotive products. If you subscribe to their email, they will send you samples of neat stuff from time to time. Jim Hasper In a message dated 9/26/2006 10:15:25 A.M. Central Daylight Time, Fiveonepw@aol.com writes: Howdy, Listers- Can anyone recommend a source for the rectangular rocker switches I've seen on many aircraft (illuminated preferably with LEDs) with the legends engraved or printed on them? I'd also like to find some square lamps of similar appearance to use as annunciator lamps. What would be perfect would be lamps that are also illuminated pushbuttons (momentary) so they can be wired with a push-to-test feature. No joy on usual suspects (ACS, Wicks, and WAY too much time googling, which is getting to be like "fishing for trout in a landfill"- even tried some street rod sites, etc.) Thanks Mark Phillips do not archive ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 01:32:09 PM PST US From: Dickk9@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Rocker switches/Annunciator Lamps Jim try _www.mouser.com_ (http://www.mouser.com) ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 03:08:01 PM PST US From: Jerry2DT@aol.com Subject: RV-List: Registration/Certification Group, I'm just now going thru the registration/ certification process, so here are a few "heads ups" I found. 1) Start the process 6 months before expected inspection date. FAA states 60-90 days just to process registration, which must be complete before inspection/certification. 2) Don't expect your local FSDO to know anything about registration. That is not their job. OTOH, don't expect anyone to answer the phone in OK City, all I got this morn was a busy signal, not even elevator music, so tried the FSDO which although sympathetic, could not answer questions about registration, only certification. 3) After putting both me and spouse's names on Bill of Sale from Van's, I wish I hadn't, raises questions about paperwork, which is why I needed to call FAA in the first place. 4) Read everything the EAA says about the process, they have a ton of stuff. FAA does also. 5) Van's can't tell you anything about the process, not their thing. 6) Find a fellow builder who has gone thru the process recently and have them review before you send the registration app to OK City. Thank you, Len Kaufmann... 7) One would just hate to wait 90 days, then have to do it all again because of an undotted "i" or sumpin'. 8) Now I'll just wait and hope. I think the FAA has some sort of tracking thing that lets you see how your paperwork is doing... 9) Did I mention "Start Early"? Regards, Jerry Cochran ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 03:37:13 PM PST US From: Subject: RV-List: Re: Van's gauges vs Dynon (ALTIMETRY) OH MY GOSH! GPS has nothing to do with altimeter settings. First if your altimeter is with in 20 feet of field with local QNH (Baro setting from tower, atis or approved weather observer) YOU ARE DOING GREAT. IF you want to get rid of that altimeter send it to me, please, email me, I'll take it. The FAR limit is +/- 75 feet or 150 feet total spread. When comparing two altimeters, what ever temp or humidity errors there are, they are the same on both, so that washes out. In part 135 and 121 there are dual altimeter limits and they are set by the manufacture, but typically they can be as much as 100 to 150 feet, e.g., one can be 75 feet low and one 75 feet high from field. Small Part 91 GA planes don't have dual instrument requirement, unless fitted with an advance flight deck, for example RVSM (Reduced Vertical Separation Min from 2000' to 1000 from FL290-FL410). Bottom line it's the +/- 75 rule. ALSO where YOU really AT the field elevation ref point????? Airport elevation at the same field can be way different from one spot to another on the field. May be you where 20 feet lower than you thought and the mechanical altimeter was perfect and the dynon was off 22 feet or what ever? ALSO altimeters have non-linear error with altitude. It must be accurate within 75 feet when set on the ground, but it must also be accurate with 75 feet throughout. The error can very as you climb. An altimeter may be off 2 feet at sea level and 100 feet at FL180. That is why altimeters are bench tested throughout their range, not just at one altitude. Please, any one think GPS is used, read your flight manual on altimeters or write me. I am sure EFIS altimeters are just based just on corrected pressure, no magic. The Dynon comment just means it does not compensate for non standard conditions. GPS altitude can be very inaccurate based on the angles and position of the satellites. All you have to do is look at the altitudes your gps gives you. We fly INDICATED ALTITUDE. If it is a perfect standard day and atmosphere, than that is hight above MSL. However with non standard, pressures, lapse rate, temps and humidity we have errors that make use higher or lower from true MSL. That is why we have the old saying: FLY from HOT to COLD, HIGH to LOW, LOOK out BELOW. The biggest driver is pressure, than temp, than humidity. Humidity has the effect of making the air less dense. You are lower than you think based on indicated altitude, which is reading higher than normal or standard conditions. Thus every 100 nm reset your Kollsman window. Regardless all altimeters are set the same BARO or QNH (below FL180) or QNA (29.92 above FL180), so we are all on the same page. There are no special corrections by EFIS altimeters vs mechanical. THERE are special ATC and IFR procedures for extreme temps and pressures, but that is beyond the topic at hand, simple altimetry is all we have, which can be confusing. The original posters errors mean nothing. They are indeed both good and very acceptable. Their error may also change from day to day at different conditons, temps or field elevations. The electronic transducer in the dynon may have some temp compensation issues that might increase its error? Heep in mind the altimeter may be TSO'ed and the Dynon not. I have a Dynon BTW in a RV-7 so I like it and I do not use a back-up for VFR flight. Cheers George CFI-II-MEI, ATP ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Gerry Filby --> RV-List message posted by: Gerry Filby At one point this weekend the barometer at the field where I'm building was exactly 29.92 - the Dyon EFIS read 62 feet, the official field elevation is 66 feet. I also installed one of Van's "steam gauge" Altimeters - supposedly a fallback instrument if my wiring/plumbing goes belly up on the first flight. The steam gauge reads minus 20 feet :-\ I know which gauge will be junked out of my panel at the first opportunity ... __g__ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 04:46:08 PM PST US From: Larry Pardue Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Van's gauges vs Dynon (ALTIMETRY) --> RV-List message posted by: Larry Pardue On Sep 26, 2006, at 4:35 PM, wrote: > > > The Dynon comment just means it does not compensate for non > standard conditions. GPS altitude can be very inaccurate based on > the angles and position of the satellites. All you have to do is > look at the altitudes your gps gives you. > Well if you compare your GPS altitude to altimeter altitude it does vary. If I am flying I am going to use the altimeter and if I want to know the actual height of a mountain I am going to use GPS. These are different missions and each method has its strengths. Our aircraft altimeters are not good at all at telling us our actual height above sea level. This is because the atmospheric profile is rarely standard. If temperatures aloft are cold, we will be lower than the indication. It doesn't matter too much as long as we don't fly too close to the mountain. Note the required clearances for IFR flight. If for some reason I want to actually now how high I am, I will go with GPS. I check the automobile one at every marked elevation and rarely see an error of more than 20 feet. Really pretty extraordinary. Larry Pardue Carlsbad, NM RV-6 N441LP Flying http://n5lp.net ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 06:11:10 PM PST US From: "Tim Bryan" Subject: RE: RV-List: Registration/Certification Well, you couldn't be more right. I just got my A/W today after a couple of weeks of wrangling. One issue is I moved since I registered the a/c and put my new address on the A/W application. In short - Don't. I got lucky and was able to backtrack. A friend attempted to get his done same time as I and as it turns out he put "Zenith" as the Manufacture. Don't make that mistake. I would ask your inspector to go over your paperwork at least 2 weeks prior to inspection to verify you have everything right before you submit it. Tim Bryan RV-6 N616TB soon to be amongst the flying _____ From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry2DT@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 3:05 PM Subject: RV-List: Registration/Certification Group, I'm just now going thru the registration/ certification process, so here are a few "heads ups" I found. 1) Start the process 6 months before expected inspection date. FAA states 60-90 days just to process registration, which must be complete before inspection/certification. 2) Don't expect your local FSDO to know anything about registration. That is not their job. OTOH, don't expect anyone to answer the phone in OK City, all I got this morn was a busy signal, not even elevator music, so tried the FSDO which although sympathetic, could not answer questions about registration, only certification. 3) After putting both me and spouse's names on Bill of Sale from Van's, I wish I hadn't, raises questions about paperwork, which is why I needed to call FAA in the first place. 4) Read everything the EAA says about the process, they have a ton of stuff. FAA does also. 5) Van's can't tell you anything about the process, not their thing. 6) Find a fellow builder who has gone thru the process recently and have them review before you send the registration app to OK City. Thank you, Len Kaufmann... 7) One would just hate to wait 90 days, then have to do it all again because of an undotted "i" or sumpin'. 8) Now I'll just wait and hope. I think the FAA has some sort of tracking thing that lets you see how your paperwork is doing... 9) Did I mention "Start Early"? Regards, Jerry Cochran ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 06:12:57 PM PST US From: "Tim Bryan" Subject: RV-List: Governor/ Prop operation --> RV-List message posted by: "Tim Bryan" Hello Listers, My -6 just got its airworthy cert today. I took it out and fueled it plus taxi tested it. I did a run-up and found very little change when I cycle the prop. How do I begin to determine the problem with this? Thanks for any input Tim RV-6 N616TB ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 06:17:47 PM PST US From: DOUGPFLYRV@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Rocker switches/Annunciator Lamps Mark, this is where we bought our switches for the 7A & 10......very pleased. Doug Preston BHM ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 06:37:24 PM PST US From: davcor@comcast.net Subject: RV-List: But wait...Re: DRDT-2 Table Hi, Many techniques to consider... Ya know, I wish I had paid more attention to Dan Checkoway's web contents as I watched him finish his plane. Then I bought his CD and reviewed as I was building, when I got to the centersection prep steps, Dan has a great picture showing the rivet gun and C-Frame to buck a few rivets. A few weeks later as I needed to dimple the centersection bottom skins, dreading getting my elbow fired up again (swinging the dead-blow), I said... I wonder... dimpled the scenter section in 45 min! I wish I knew this when I dimpled the wing skins... So while I lusted after the DRDT-2 as being obviously easier on the elbow, the C-Frame works great, set the air down, use two hands to move the skin in-progress, one-hand reach and pull the trigger... ya can get a real rhythm going... Dave Cordner RV7 - N898DC (rsvd) center section joined, side skins drilled, (fast) dimple party on skins this weekend ;^) -------------- Original message -------------- From: LES KEARNEY > --> RV-List message posted by: LES KEARNEY > > Hi > > In anticipation of ordering an empennage kit on Tuesday next, I have been busy > getting my workspace ready. To that end I have built two regulation EAA work > tables and now would like to build a table / stand for a DRDT-2 dimplier. > > Does anyone have plans for such a beast so I can build the table in advance of > receiving my tool order? > > Many thanks > > Les > > RV10 Wannabe > > > > > >
Hi,
Many techniques to consider...
 
Ya know, I wish I had paid more attention to Dan Checkoway's web contents as I watched him finish his plane. Then I bought his CD and reviewed as I was building, when I got to the centersection prep steps, Dan has a great picture showing the rivet gun and C-Frame to buck a few rivets.
A few weeks later as I needed to dimple the centersection bottom skins, dreading getting my elbow fired up again (swinging the dead-blow), I said... I wonder... dimpled the scenter section in 45 min! I wish I knew this when I dimpled the wing skins...
 
So while I lusted after the DRDT-2 as being obviously easier on the elbow, the C-Frame works great, set the air down, use two hands to move the skin in-progress, one-hand reach and pull the trigger... ya can get a real rhythm going...
 
Dave Cordner
RV7 - N898DC (rsvd)
center section joined, side skins drilled,
(fast) dimple party on skins this weekend ;^)
utilit ===== ====
>
>
>
________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 06:46:29 PM PST US From: Chuck Subject: Re: RV-List: Governor/ Prop operation Tim, Start checking connections... controls, oil lines, etc... Chuck Tim Bryan wrote: --> RV-List message posted by: "Tim Bryan" Hello Listers, My -6 just got its airworthy cert today. I took it out and fueled it plus taxi tested it. I did a run-up and found very little change when I cycle the prop. How do I begin to determine the problem with this? Thanks for any input Tim RV-6 N616TB --------------------------------- All-new Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster. ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 06:58:10 PM PST US From: Sherman Butler Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: DRDT-2 Table John, The table is 2' X 3' . I started with the EAA table dimensions and I shortened the legs the height of the DRDT-2 table and wheels combined, placed the bottom shelf on the bottom to provide a larger bearing area for the wheel frames. The sliding table is much like the table in the DRDT-2 plans. I used heavy wheels to provide ballast to the table. My son was here for the weekend, and he worked one summer in a belly landing repair shop. He LOVED it ------- until I showed him the pneumatic squeezer. do not archive John Jessen wrote: Did you save the cutting list? Nice job! John Jessen RV-10 do not archive --------------------------------- Les, This is the table I made. The EAA tables are level with adn suppor the work. Does anyone have plans for such a beast so I can build the table in advance of receiving my tool order? Many thanks Les Sherman Butler RV-7a Wings Idaho Falls Sherman Butler RV-7a Wings Idaho Falls --------------------------------- Get your email and more, right on the new Yahoo.com ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 07:07:04 PM PST US From: Denis Walsh Subject: Re: RV-List: Governor/ Prop operation --> RV-List message posted by: Denis Walsh First let's hope for the b est. !0 out of 10 people I know have had the same problem. It is typical for the first cycle of the prop/gov. Apparently the oil doesn't get up to the prop unless you "cycle it three times." So first thing go back out and run it up and pull that sucker out, count to two, then do it again. The third time is the charm. If that don't work get advice from someone else; however it has worked for every case I know of. Cheers Denis Walsh On Sep 26, 2006, at 07:11 690820009, Tim Bryan wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: "Tim Bryan" > > > Hello Listers, > > My -6 just got its airworthy cert today. I took it out and fueled > it plus > taxi tested it. I did a run-up and found very little change when I > cycle > the prop. How do I begin to determine the problem with this? > > Thanks for any input > Tim > RV-6 > N616TB > > ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 07:47:15 PM PST US From: Bobby Hester Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine pre-heat & cell phone --> RV-List message posted by: Bobby Hester I haven't used it but here it is, look at the remote on/off switch: http://www.reiffpreheat.com/product.htm My new email address: bobbyhester@charter.net Surfing the Web from Hopkinsville, KY Visit my web site at: http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/RVSite/ RV7A N857BH SB wings-QB Fuse-XPO360 engine :-) sjhdcl@kingston.net wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: sjhdcl@kingston.net > >Anybody use a cell phone to turn on a timer at the hanger? I would like >to use this to start the engine pre-heater. > >Internet is not a option in this WWII hanger. > >Thanks >Steve >RV7A > > > > ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 08:13:43 PM PST US From: David Maib Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: DRDT-2 Table --> RV-List message posted by: David Maib Les, I built two of the EAA work tables and am very happy with them. I built the DRDT-2 table from the plans that came with the DRDT-2 and it is great. Here is a photo of the DRDT-2 table. [URL=http://img87.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img0652jd6.jpg][IMG] http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/88/img0652jd6.th.jpg[/IMG][/URL] Regards, David Maib #40559 On Sep 26, 2006, at 9:13 AM, LES KEARNEY wrote: --> RV-List message posted by: LES KEARNEY Hi In anticipation of ordering an empennage kit on Tuesday next, I have been busy getting my workspace ready. To that end I have built two regulation EAA work tables and now would like to build a table / stand for a DRDT-2 dimplier. Does anyone have plans for such a beast so I can build the table in advance of receiving my tool order? Many thanks Les RV10 Wannabe ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 08:14:45 PM PST US From: "Dan Checkoway" Subject: Re: RV-List: But wait...Re: DRDT-2 Table Dave, Are you using your rivet gun to dimple with the C-frame? Which shaft/attachment are you using? Please enlighten me... ;-) I do use my C-frame to rivet, but only with the shaft that has the flush/solid end...and only with a hammer (so far!). Interested in finding out your method with the rivet gun & C-frame. FWIW, I would love to have a DRDT-2. Maybe for my next project I'll buy one if the budget permits. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D "Priorities" www.rvproject.com / www.weathermeister.com ----- Original Message ----- From: davcor@comcast.net To: rv-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 6:35 PM Subject: RV-List: But wait...Re: DRDT-2 Table Hi, Many techniques to consider... Ya know, I wish I had paid more attention to Dan Checkoway's web contents as I watched him finish his plane. Then I bought his CD and reviewed as I was building, when I got to the centersection prep steps, Dan has a great picture showing the rivet gun and C-Frame to buck a few rivets. A few weeks later as I needed to dimple the centersection bottom skins, dreading getting my elbow fired up again (swinging the dead-blow), I said... I wonder... dimpled the scenter section in 45 min! I wish I knew this when I dimpled the wing skins... So while I lusted after the DRDT-2 as being obviously easier on the elbow, the C-Frame works great, set the air down, use two hands to move the skin in-progress, one-hand reach and pull the trigger... ya can get a real rhythm going... Dave Cordner RV7 - N898DC (rsvd) center section joined, side skins drilled, (fast) dimple party on skins this weekend ;^) utilit ====== ==== > > > ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 08:25:25 PM PST US From: "DonVS" Subject: RE: RV-List: But wait...Re: DRDT-2 Table Dan, I use my c frame to rivet with the gun as well. It came with a shaft that has one flat end and one for rivet sets. The flat end fits in my rivet gun and works just fine. Don -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dan Checkoway Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 8:13 PM To: rv-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: RV-List: But wait...Re: DRDT-2 Table Dave, Are you using your rivet gun to dimple with the C-frame? Which shaft/attachment are you using? Please enlighten me... ;-) I do use my C-frame to rivet, but only with the shaft that has the flush/solid end...and only with a hammer (so far!). Interested in finding out your method with the rivet gun & C-frame. FWIW, I would love to have a DRDT-2. Maybe for my next project I'll buy one if the budget permits. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D "Priorities" www.rvproject.com / www.weathermeister.com ----- Original Message ----- From: davcor@comcast.net To: rv-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 6:35 PM Subject: RV-List: But wait...Re: DRDT-2 Table Hi, Many techniques to consider... Ya know, I wish I had paid more attention to Dan Checkoway's web contents as I watched him finish his plane. Then I bought his CD and reviewed as I was building, when I got to the centersection prep steps, Dan has a great picture showing the rivet gun and C-Frame to buck a few rivets. A few weeks later as I needed to dimple the centersection bottom skins, dreading getting my elbow fired up again (swinging the dead-blow), I said... I wonder... dimpled the scenter section in 45 min! I wish I knew this when I dimpled the wing skins... So while I lusted after the DRDT-2 as being obviously easier on the elbow, the C-Frame works great, set the air down, use two hands to move the skin in-progress, one-hand reach and pull the trigger... ya can get a real rhythm going... Dave Cordner RV7 - N898DC (rsvd) center section joined, side skins drilled, (fast) dimple party on skins this weekend ;^) utilit ====== === > > > com/Navigator?RV-List ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 08:49:58 PM PST US From: LES KEARNEY Subject: Dan's Website was Re: RV-List: But wait...Re: DRDT-2 Table --> RV-List message posted by: LES KEARNEY Hi Dan I have just spent a couple of hours wandering throgh your website. You have some very cool photo's, tips, hints and links. I am planning an RV10 QB but your comments on SB vs QB have given me pause. When I visit Van's next week for a demo flight I plan to have a serious chat with them about QB kits vs SB kits. Cheers Les Kearney RV10 Wannabe ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 08:50:18 PM PST US From: David Maib Subject: Re: RV-List: But wait...Re: DRDT-2 Table I use my c-frame to rivet with the gun as well. Learned from Wally Anderson at Synergy Air in his Fundamentals of Building class. David Maib RV-10 #40559 On Sep 26, 2006, at 10:25 PM, DonVS wrote: Dan, I use my c frame to rivet with the gun as well. It came with a shaft that has one flat end and one for rivet sets. The flat end fits in my rivet gun and works just fine. Don -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list- server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dan Checkoway Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 8:13 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: But wait...Re: DRDT-2 Table Dave, Are you using your rivet gun to dimple with the C-frame? Which shaft/ attachment are you using? Please enlighten me... ;-) I do use my C- frame to rivet, but only with the shaft that has the flush/solid end...and only with a hammer (so far!). Interested in finding out your method with the rivet gun & C-frame. FWIW, I would love to have a DRDT-2. Maybe for my next project I'll buy one if the budget permits. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D "Priorities" www.rvproject.com / www.weathermeister.com ----- Original Message ----- From: davcor@comcast.net Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 6:35 PM Subject: RV-List: But wait...Re: DRDT-2 Table Hi, Many techniques to consider... Ya know, I wish I had paid more attention to Dan Checkoway's web contents as I watched him finish his plane. Then I bought his CD and reviewed as I was building, when I got to the centersection prep steps, Dan has a great picture showing the rivet gun and C-Frame to buck a few rivets. A few weeks later as I needed to dimple the centersection bottom skins, dreading getting my elbow fired up again (swinging the dead- blow), I said... I wonder... dimpled the scenter section in 45 min! I wish I knew this when I dimpled the wing skins... So while I lusted after the DRDT-2 as being obviously easier on the elbow, the C-Frame works great, set the air down, use two hands to move the skin in-progress, one-hand reach and pull the trigger... ya can get a real rhythm going... Dave Cordner RV7 - N898DC (rsvd) center section joined, side skins drilled, (fast) dimple party on skins this weekend ;^) utilit ====== === > > > com/Navigator?RV-List com/Navigator?RV-List www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List_- ============================================================ _- forums.matronics.com_- ============================================================ _- ============================================================ _- =========================================================== ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 08:50:41 PM PST US From: "Dan Checkoway" Subject: Re: RV-List: But wait...Re: DRDT-2 Table Wow. I think you might potentially be doing damage to the rivet gun. If the piston in the rivet gun isn't impacting the shaft directly, it could easily split and jam the gun. Just as we were taught "never fire a rivet gun into the air," the reason is because the piston goes slamming into the end of the cylinder and can literally shatter. If the piston is really hitting the dimpling shaft then disregard...but be careful, it could trash an expensive tool. )_( Dan ----- Original Message ----- From: DonVS To: rv-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 8:25 PM Subject: RE: RV-List: But wait...Re: DRDT-2 Table Dan, I use my c frame to rivet with the gun as well. It came with a shaft that has one flat end and one for rivet sets. The flat end fits in my rivet gun and works just fine. Don -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dan Checkoway Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 8:13 PM To: rv-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: RV-List: But wait...Re: DRDT-2 Table Dave, Are you using your rivet gun to dimple with the C-frame? Which shaft/attachment are you using? Please enlighten me... ;-) I do use my C-frame to rivet, but only with the shaft that has the flush/solid end...and only with a hammer (so far!). Interested in finding out your method with the rivet gun & C-frame. FWIW, I would love to have a DRDT-2. Maybe for my next project I'll buy one if the budget permits. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D "Priorities" www.rvproject.com / www.weathermeister.com ----- Original Message ----- From: davcor@comcast.net To: rv-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 6:35 PM Subject: RV-List: But wait...Re: DRDT-2 Table Hi, Many techniques to consider... Ya know, I wish I had paid more attention to Dan Checkoway's web contents as I watched him finish his plane. Then I bought his CD and reviewed as I was building, when I got to the centersection prep steps, Dan has a great picture showing the rivet gun and C-Frame to buck a few rivets. A few weeks later as I needed to dimple the centersection bottom skins, dreading getting my elbow fired up again (swinging the dead-blow), I said... I wonder... dimpled the scenter section in 45 min! I wish I knew this when I dimpled the wing skins... So while I lusted after the DRDT-2 as being obviously easier on the elbow, the C-Frame works great, set the air down, use two hands to move the skin in-progress, one-hand reach and pull the trigger... ya can get a real rhythm going... Dave Cordner RV7 - N898DC (rsvd) center section joined, side skins drilled, (fast) dimple party on skins this weekend ;^) utilit ====== ==== > > > com/Navigator?RV-List com/Navigator?RV-List ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 09:15:17 PM PST US From: "DonVS" Subject: RE: RV-List: But wait...Re: DRDT-2 Table I reported one thing wrong. The shaft is shaped just like a rivet set made for the gun. Avery claims that the shaft is for use with a gun. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dan Checkoway Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 8:49 PM To: rv-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: RV-List: But wait...Re: DRDT-2 Table Wow. I think you might potentially be doing damage to the rivet gun. If the piston in the rivet gun isn't impacting the shaft directly, it could easily split and jam the gun. Just as we were taught "never fire a rivet gun into the air," the reason is because the piston goes slamming into the end of the cylinder and can literally shatter. If the piston is really hitting the dimpling shaft then disregard...but be careful, it could trash an expensive tool. )_( Dan ----- Original Message ----- From: DonVS To: rv-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 8:25 PM Subject: RE: RV-List: But wait...Re: DRDT-2 Table Dan, I use my c frame to rivet with the gun as well. It came with a shaft that has one flat end and one for rivet sets. The flat end fits in my rivet gun and works just fine. Don -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dan Checkoway Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 8:13 PM To: rv-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: RV-List: But wait...Re: DRDT-2 Table Dave, Are you using your rivet gun to dimple with the C-frame? Which shaft/attachment are you using? Please enlighten me... ;-) I do use my C-frame to rivet, but only with the shaft that has the flush/solid end...and only with a hammer (so far!). Interested in finding out your method with the rivet gun & C-frame. FWIW, I would love to have a DRDT-2. Maybe for my next project I'll buy one if the budget permits. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D "Priorities" www.rvproject.com / www.weathermeister.com ----- Original Message ----- From: davcor@comcast.net To: rv-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 6:35 PM Subject: RV-List: But wait...Re: DRDT-2 Table Hi, Many techniques to consider... Ya know, I wish I had paid more attention to Dan Checkoway's web contents as I watched him finish his plane. Then I bought his CD and reviewed as I was building, when I got to the centersection prep steps, Dan has a great picture showing the rivet gun and C-Frame to buck a few rivets. A few weeks later as I needed to dimple the centersection bottom skins, dreading getting my elbow fired up again (swinging the dead-blow), I said... I wonder... dimpled the scenter section in 45 min! I wish I knew this when I dimpled the wing skins... So while I lusted after the DRDT-2 as being obviously easier on the elbow, the C-Frame works great, set the air down, use two hands to move the skin in-progress, one-hand reach and pull the trigger... ya can get a real rhythm going... Dave Cordner RV7 - N898DC (rsvd) center section joined, side skins drilled, (fast) dimple party on skins this weekend ;^) utilit ====== === > > > com/Navigator?RV-List com/Navigator?RV-List com/Navigator?RV-List ________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________ Time: 09:46:37 PM PST US From: davcor@comcast.net Subject: RV-List: hammer? no no no it was the gun Dan, This is the pic from your CD that got me going... Forgive the novel... I took the same shaft and used a transfer punch to mark the center. To do this I took some 3" tape, wrapped (sticky side out) around the end, used the nearest diameter punch, whack! I then put the shaft in a machinist vice (held vertical in "v" groove), went to the drill press and drilled a pilot hole, and snuck up on the shaft size of the die. I'm going to make another, or see if I can get a longer shaft from Bob Avery maybe talk him into making it for me. Nah, I'll just order it and ask around at the chapter to see if someone has a lathe. I have the little taig lathe like Tom Emery's but it's just too small, the shaft will not got theough the chuck-race. Ok, nomenclature nomenclature I know, the hole that goes therough the chuck... Bottom line, I need to do a more precise job as the die is a little offset. When I wrote 45 min, it was actually faster. The compressor is 20' from the final filter & reg. The reg at the compressor was at 30#, The hose from the final filter was about 20' too so I'm estimating that I had 20# at the gun, was pretty quiet. I locked the collar onto the shaft, spring under the colar. need/want about 2" more on the shaft. Works great! Dimples are crisp and all the same. Center section skin looked great till I couldn't wait for a helper and rivited the skin myself in a couple hrs. Tried backriveting with a dumbell bucking bar, but ended up just using the swivel set and a "T" shaped bucking bar underneath. Oh well, when I was worrying about my rudder, I looked at one of the Vans planes at a Colorado fly-in. I got on the ground and was eyeballing the line looking up. I think it was Scott who walked over and said, 'I know what you're looking at, don't worry about it, just press on. And besides if you get too close and personal like this with other builders planes, ya might get your fingers stepped on'. Anyhow, given that I have a few of these spots, I'm toying with getting a (very) small decal made that says 'Caution, if you can read this, you're too close, the builder/owner is about to step on your hand' ;^) Dave 719.660.6665 (cell) if you want to talk it over rather than just email tag -------------- Original message -------------- From: "Dan Checkoway" Dave, Are you using your rivet gun to dimple with the C-frame? Which shaft/attachment are you using? Please enlighten me... ;-) I do use my C-frame to rivet, but only with the shaft that has the flush/solid end...and only with a hammer (so far!). Interested in finding out your method with the rivet gun & C-frame. FWIW, I would love to have a DRDT-2. Maybe for my next project I'll buy one if the budget permits. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D "Priorities" www.rvproject.com / www.weathermeister.com ----- Original Message ----- From: davcor@comcast.net Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 6:35 PM Subject: RV-List: But wait...Re: DRDT-2 Table Hi, Many techniques to consider... Ya know, I wish I had paid more attention to Dan Checkoway's web contents as I watched him finish his plane. Then I bought his CD and reviewed as I was building, when I got to the centersection prep steps, Dan has a great picture showing the rivet gun and C-Frame to buck a few rivets. A few weeks later as I needed to dimple the centersection bottom skins, dreading getting my elbow fired up again (swinging the dead-blow), I said... I wonder... dimpled the scenter section in 45 min! I wish I knew this when I dimpled the wing skins... So while I lusted after the DRDT-2 as being obviously easier on the elbow, the C-Frame works great, set the air down, use two hands to move the skin in-progress, one-hand reach and pull the trigger... ya can get a real rhythm going... Dave Cordner RV7 - N898DC (rsvd) center section joined, side skins drilled, (fast) dimple party on skins this weekend ;^) utilit ====== ==== > > > com/Navigator?RV-List
Dan,
This is the pic from your CD that got me going...
Forgive the novel...
 
I took the same shaft and used a transfer punch to mark the center. To do this I took some 3" tape, wrapped (sticky side out) around the end, used the nearest diameter punch, whack! I then put the shaft in a machinist vice (held vertical in "v" groove), went to the drill press and drilled a pilot hole, and snuck up on the shaft size of the die.
I'm going to make another, or see if I can get a longer shaft from Bob Avery maybe talk him into making it for me. Nah, I'll just order it and ask around at the chapter to see if someone has a lathe. I have the little taig lathe like Tom Emery's but it's just too small, the shaft will not got theough the chuck-race. Ok, nomenclature nomenclature I know, the hole that goes therough the chuck...
 
Bottom line, I need to do a more precise job as the die is a little offset.
 
When I wrote 45 min, it was actually faster.
 
The compressor is 20' from the final filter & reg. The reg at the compressor was at 30#, The hose from the final filter was about 20' too so I'm estimating that I had 20# at the gun, was pretty quiet.
 
I locked the collar onto the shaft, spring under the colar. need/want about 2" more on the shaft.
 
Works great! Dimples are crisp and all the same. Center section skin looked great till I couldn't wait for a helper and rivited the skin myself in a couple hrs. Tried backriveting with a dumbell bucking bar, but ended up just using the swivel set and a "T" shaped bucking bar underneath.
 
Oh well, when I was worrying about my rudder, I looked at one of the Vans planes at a Colorado fly-in. I got on the ground and was eyeballing the line looking up. I think it was Scott who walked over and said, 'I know what you're looking at, don't worry about it, just press on. And besides if you get too close and personal like this with other builders planes, ya might get your fingers stepped on'.
Anyhow, given that I have a few of these spots, I'm toying with getting a (very) small decal made that says 'Caution, if you can read this, you're too close, the builder/owner is about to step on your hand' ;^)
 
Dave
719.660.6665 (cell) if you want to talk it over rather than just email tag
 
 
 
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
Dave,
 
Are you using your rivet gun to dimple with the C-frame?  Which shaft/attachment are you using?  Please enlighten me...  ;-)  I do use my C-frame to rivet, but only with the shaft that has the flush/solid end...and only with a hammer (so far!).  Interested in finding out your method with the rivet gun & C-frame.
 
FWIW, I would love to have a DRDT-2.  Maybe for my next project I'll buy one if the budget permits.
 
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D "Priorities"
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 6:35 PM
Subject: RV-List: But wait...Re: DRDT-2 Table

Hi,
Many techniques to consider...
 
Ya know, I wish I had paid more attention to Dan Checkoway's web contents as I watched him finish his plane. Then I bought his CD and reviewed as I was building, when I got to the centersection prep steps, Dan has a great picture showing the rivet gun and C-Frame to buck a few rivets.
A few weeks later as I needed to dimple the centersection bottom skins, dreading getting my elbow fired up again (swinging the dead-blow), I said... I wonder... dimpled the scenter section in 45 min! I wish I knew this when I dimpled the wing skins...
 
So while I lusted after the DRDT-2 as being obviously easier on the elbow, the C-Frame works great, set the air down, use two hands to move the skin in-progress, one-hand reach and pull the trigger... ya can get a real rhythm going...
 
Dave Cordner
RV7 - N898DC (rsvd)
center section joined, side skins drilled,
(fast) dimple party on skins this weekend ;^)
utilit ====== ====
>
>
> 


com/Navigator?RV-List
________________________________ Message 46 ____________________________________ Time: 10:15:59 PM PST US From: "WILLIAM AGSTER" Subject: Re: RV-List: Rocker switches/Annunciator Lamps Try the catalog at Pacific Coast Avionics. You can get them engraved with anything you want on them. I do think they are incandescent though, not LED ----- Original Message ----- From: Fiveonepw@aol.com To: rv-list@matronics.com ; aeroelectric-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 9:11 AM Subject: RV-List: Rocker switches/Annunciator Lamps Howdy, Listers- Can anyone recommend a source for the rectangular rocker switches I've seen on many aircraft (illuminated preferably with LEDs) with the legends engraved or printed on them? I'd also like to find some square lamps of similar appearance to use as annunciator lamps. What would be perfect would be lamps that are also illuminated pushbuttons (momentary) so they can be wired with a push-to-test feature. No joy on usual suspects (ACS, Wicks, and WAY too much time googling, which is getting to be like "fishing for trout in a landfill"- even tried some street rod sites, etc.) Thanks Mark Phillips do not archive http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 47 ____________________________________ Time: 10:28:46 PM PST US From: "Dan Checkoway" Subject: Re: Dan's Website was Re: RV-List: But wait...Re: DRDT-2 Table --> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" Les, Don't let my opinion sway you if you really want to go QB. On the -10 I would think the QB makes a relatively bigger difference...there seems to be "more of everything" -- the sheer # of holes/deburring/dimpling/riveting alone. Granted you pay the same premium (last I checked) %-wise regardless of model, but I think relative to the final cost of the airplane, the cost of QB blends in a little better on the -10. Bottom line, you'll find no shortage of opinions out there (including this email I'm writing right now), but do what's right for your mission & budget. Not everybody's lives/lifestyles/priorities translate directly to other builders. do not archive )_( Dan ----- Original Message ----- From: "LES KEARNEY" Cc: Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 8:48 PM Subject: Dan's Website was Re: RV-List: But wait...Re: DRDT-2 Table > Hi Dan > > I have just spent a couple of hours wandering throgh your website. You > have some very cool photo's, tips, hints and links. > > I am planning an RV10 QB but your comments on SB vs QB have given me > pause. When I visit Van's next week for a demo flight I plan to have a > serious chat with them about QB kits vs SB kits. > > Cheers > > Les Kearney > RV10 Wannabe > > ________________________________ Message 48 ____________________________________ Time: 10:40:37 PM PST US From: "David Schaefer" Subject: RV-List: Hartzell AD 2006-18-15 09/25/06 Has anyone else seen this AD from Hartzell? As I read it, it applies to the HC-C2YR-1BF/F7496 props we purchased from Vans and is an inspection of the front hub to look for cracks that apparently resulted in a blade seperation from an aircraft. This appears to be an expensive, repetitive AD requiring eddy testing etc. Can one of our A&Ps check into this? Thanks... -- David W. Schaefer RV-6A N142DS "Geek One" www.n142ds.com