Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:49 AM - Re: Facet Pump Failure (FLYaDIVE@aol.com)
2. 12:57 AM - Re: Facet Pump Failure (FLYaDIVE@aol.com)
3. 01:16 AM - Re: Roll Trim - RV-6A (FLYaDIVE@aol.com)
4. 02:47 AM - Applying cowl heat shield material (shirleyh)
5. 03:42 AM - Re: Senator Ground Loops RV-8 ()
6. 05:54 AM - Re: Applying cowl heat shield material (Tim Olson)
7. 05:55 AM - Re: Senator Ground Loops RV-8 (Sherman Butler)
8. 06:38 AM - Re: Senator Ground Loops RV-8 (Bill Boyd)
9. 06:55 AM - Re: yet another rivet question (Jeff Bearden)
10. 06:56 AM - Re: Applying cowl heat shield material (John Huft)
11. 07:36 AM - Re: Re: Senator Ground Loops RV-8 (Hans Conser)
12. 07:46 AM - Re: Facet Pump Failure (Sam Buchanan)
13. 08:23 AM - Re: Senator Ground Loops RV-8 (Tom & Cathy Ervin)
14. 09:06 AM - Re: yet another rivet question (John Jessen)
15. 10:14 AM - Re: Senator Ground Loops RV-8 (Bob Collins)
16. 10:23 AM - Re: Facet Pump Failure (Bob Collins)
17. 10:46 AM - Re: Facet Pump Failure (linn Walters)
18. 11:09 AM - Re: Facet Pump Failure (Bruce Gray)
19. 11:09 AM - Re: Re: Senator Ground Loops RV-8 (Kyle Boatright)
20. 12:09 PM - Re: Senator Ground Loops RV-8 (Tom & Cathy Ervin)
21. 12:18 PM - Re: Facet Pump Failure (RV6 Flyer)
22. 12:53 PM - Re: Senator Ground Loops RV-8 (Frank Stringham)
23. 01:18 PM - Re: Senator Ground Loops RV-8 (Bob Collins)
24. 01:27 PM - paint issues (Robert Dickson)
25. 01:30 PM - Re: Re: Senator Ground Loops RV-8 (Bill Boyd)
26. 01:37 PM - Re: Facet Pump Failure (Dan Checkoway)
27. 05:25 PM - KLX-135A Wiring Diagram ()
28. 06:08 PM - Re: KLX-135A Wiring Diagram (Robert Lynch)
29. 06:08 PM - Re: Senator Ground Loops RV-8 (c.ennis)
30. 09:53 PM - Re: Re: Senator Ground Loops RV-8 (Paul Besing)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Facet Pump Failure |
In a message dated 10/4/2006 2:44:23 AM Eastern Standard Time,
Vanremog@aol.com writes:
811 hrs same pump (carbureted in my case) mounted all standard per Van's
instructions yadda yadda also perfectamundo. Let's not re-engineer this area,
folks.
GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A, C/S, Flying 811hrs, Silicon Valley, CA)
=============================
ONLY that the little square thing should have a filter on the intake side.
As I said before, I repaired three pumps due to debris jamming the piston.
Other than that they work fine.
Barry
"Chop'd Liver"
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Facet Pump Failure |
In a message dated 10/3/2006 11:29:42 PM Eastern Standard Time,
billschlatterer@sbcglobal.net writes:
So not having looked inside one, if the piston jams on junk, will it still
flow fuel if the mechanical pump is working ? In other words, does it fail in
a
safe mode ?
Thanks Bill S
=================================
Bill:
It all depends on what you consider the safe? Yes, it will pass fuel. Will
it pass fuel in a high enough quantity for a take off, or when switching from
a dry tank, or when the throttle is fire-walled? I don't think so! And I
don't want to take the chance.
I know it will NOT pass fuel from a DRY PRIME START.
The cure is simply install a filter on BOTH feeds from the wing before it
hits the pump. The round Facet Pumps have a filter built into the bottom.
Van's did a great job designing our planes, GREAT, not PERFECT! And we are
here to help. I point out the use of a pop-rivet for the static port. Now how
many have used that method?
Barry
"Chop'd Liver"
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Roll Trim - RV-6A |
Sam:
Thank you for the information and the link, I'll try it.
Barry
Message 4
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| Subject: | Applying cowl heat shield material |
--> RV-List message posted by: "shirleyh" <shirleyh@oceanbroadband.net>
Listers - during the test period on my RV6 I noticed scorch marks on the lower
cowl. I've ordered the cowl heat shield material from Vans. Are there any tips
from those who have already done it regarding the best way to apply it? I'm thinking
about surface preparation of the cowl to ensure good adhesion and techniques
for smooth application.
All advice gratefully accepted.
Shirley in Perth, Western Australia
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=66321#66321
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Senator Ground Loops RV-8 |
>From: Hans Conser <hansconser@gmail.com>
>U.S. Sen. Jim Inhofe and an aide escaped injury Thursday when the
>small plane the Oklahoma Republican was flying spun out of control
>after landing at Tulsa's Jones Riverside Airport.
>
>"Everything was fine until the tail wheel hit the runway," he said.
>
>"Jim felt like his rudder control was not what it should have been,
>so it was mechanical, certainly. As soon as we hit, we fish-tailed and
>spun around a couple of times."
Humm, it's not like a politician to make excuses. May be it's because he
just messed up? May be.
>"The plane looks a lot worse than it was," he said.
Hmmm of course,
>Finnerty said the plane, which he described as a "tail dragger," was
>built for the senator by a professional a few years ago.
I wounder is that legal?
It's good politicians fly, and fly home builts, just wish they would
take more responsibility and not lie so much.
Cheers George
---------------------------------
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Applying cowl heat shield material |
--> RV-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
No scorch marks from this method yet...
Degrease and sand the inside of the cowl lightly.
Mix up some West Systems or similar epoxy.
Brush the epoxy on the inside of the cowl all
over the place. Then just peel/apply/trim the
heat shield material and you're done. It's self-stick
if you got the same I did. I have good adherence
pretty much everywhere except one spot where I didn't
get quite enough degreasing done.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
shirleyh wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "shirleyh" <shirleyh@oceanbroadband.net>
>
> Listers - during the test period on my RV6 I noticed scorch marks on the lower
cowl. I've ordered the cowl heat shield material from Vans. Are there any tips
from those who have already done it regarding the best way to apply it? I'm
thinking about surface preparation of the cowl to ensure good adhesion and techniques
for smooth application.
>
> All advice gratefully accepted.
>
> Shirley in Perth, Western Australia
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=66321#66321
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Senator Ground Loops RV-8 |
Inhofe is a work, and lives in in his own reality. When the Tiger prop fell off
he balamed liberals.
"I was a Republican until they lost there minds." Charles Barkley
The senator was forced to make an emergency landing in 1999 at the
Claremore Municipal Airport after the propeller fell off the Grumman
American AA-5B he was flying.
The NTSB investigated that incident, and its report blamed an error on
the prop installation.
Sherman Butler
RV-7a Wings
Idaho Falls
---------------------------------
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Senator Ground Loops RV-8 |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bill Boyd" <sportav8r@gmail.com>
I think I know what you mean by "in in (sic) his own reality," but
then I come to "balamed" and I'm not so sure anymore. Then there's
the substitution of "there minds" for "their minds" and I begin to
detect a Gummint Schoo' grad-u-it liberal bias, perhaps?
I'll venture a guess that most of us on the List are simply glad
everyone's okay, quietly thinking out the whole nosewheel-tailwheel
controversy once more to ourselves, and, while we're not all of one
political persuasion by any means, wonder whether you come in peace or
have come to troll.
I'd like to see for myself Sen. Inhofe's statement linking the prop
accident to liberals. Would you post that here, Sherm?
Thank you, buddy. I typed this slowly, in case you don't read real fast.
-Stormy
On 10/7/06, Sherman Butler <lsbrv7a@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Inhofe is a work, and lives in in his own reality. When the Tiger prop fell
> off he balamed liberals.
>
>
> "I was a Republican until they lost there minds." Charles Barkley
>
>
> The senator was forced to make an emergency landing in 1999 at the
> Claremore Municipal Airport after the propeller fell off the Grumman
> American AA-5B he was flying.
>
> The NTSB investigated that incident, and its report blamed an error on
> the prop installation.
>
>
> Sherman Butler
> RV-7a Wings
> Idaho Falls
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: yet another rivet question |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jeff Bearden" <jb.flynavy@gmail.com>
Thanks Gents. I'll experiment with each. Think I'll start with reducing the pressure
at the gun. Maybe not banging the snot outta the rivets will help. Be
gentle with the rivets, the rivets are your friends; right??
Used to tell people the same thing teachin em to ski the bumps....
-Jeff
--------
-Jeff Bearden
Acworth, GA
RV-8
------------------
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=66344#66344
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Applying cowl heat shield material |
--> RV-List message posted by: John Huft <rv8@lazy8.net>
Shirley
If you just do a good job of degreasing it will stick fine. The problems
come in that the stuff will not stretch at all, so you have to cut it
into pieces to make it conform to the compound curves of the cowl.
Mine has been fine for 3 years or so now.
John
shirleyh wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "shirleyh" <shirleyh@oceanbroadband.net>
>
> Listers - during the test period on my RV6 I noticed scorch marks on the lower
cowl. I've ordered the cowl heat shield material from Vans. Are there any tips
from those who have already done it regarding the best way to apply it? I'm
thinking about surface preparation of the cowl to ensure good adhesion and techniques
for smooth application.
>
> All advice gratefully accepted.
>
> Shirley in Perth, Western Australia
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=66321#66321
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Senator Ground Loops RV-8 |
--> RV-List message posted by: Hans Conser <hansconser@gmail.com>
On Oct 7, 2006, at 4:40 AM, <gmcjetpilot@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> Humm, it'snot like a politician to make excuses. May be it's because
> he
> just messed up? May be.
>
>
> >"The plane looks a lot worse than it was," he said.
>
> Hmmm of course,
>
> >Finnerty said the plane, which he described as a "tail dragger," was
> >built for the senator by a professional a few years ago.
>
> I wounder is that legal?
> It'sgood politicians fly, and flyhome builts, just wish they would
> take more responsibility and not lie so much.
>
> Cheers George
>
Hey, you are talking about a fellow RV pilot here who is on OUR side,
cut the guy some slack! Most high-time tail dragger pilots I know have
groundlooped at least once...
Yes it IS legal to have someone else build a plane for you. Ain't
America great? Think about it though, if no one but the builder could
fly a homebuilt plane, no one could ever sell their plane, or let
another pilot touch the controls of that plane. Would that make much
sense?
Cheers
Hans
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Facet Pump Failure |
--> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
FLYaDIVE@aol.com wrote:
> It all depends on what you consider the safe? Yes, it will pass fuel. Will
> it pass fuel in a high enough quantity for a take off, or when switching from
> a dry tank, or when the throttle is fire-walled? I don't think so! And I
> don't want to take the chance.
> I know it will NOT pass fuel from a DRY PRIME START.
> The cure is simply install a filter on BOTH feeds from the wing before it
> hits the pump. The round Facet Pumps have a filter built into the bottom.
> Van's did a great job designing our planes, GREAT, not PERFECT! And we are
> here to help. I point out the use of a pop-rivet for the static port. Now how
> many have used that method?
How many have used pop rivets for the static ports? I suspect it would
be close to 90% of all flying RV's. And the pop rivet port is more
accurate than the alternate, "properly engineered" ports. :-)
The little square Facet pump does indeed appear to be sorta rinky-dink
for our highly engineered, garage-built airplanes, and it sounds awful.
But the thing has a great field history in hundreds and hundreds of
aircraft. There have obviously been isolated failures, but that is the
case with nearly every component on our planes. If a builder decides to
replace the pump with something more "appropriate", so be it, just be
sure safety issues aren't being introduced by tampering with a proven
design. By the way, the Facet pump on my plane was able to produce fuel
flow from a "dry prime". The same was true of the two Facet pumps I have
in automotive applications. The pump certainly has a limit as to how
high a column of fuel it can pull, but it seems in our RV application
there is sufficient head pressure, at least with ample fuel in the tank,
for the pump to self-prime.
If debris large enough to repeatedly clog the Facet was in my fuel
system, I would open up the tanks and find out where it was coming from!
I have the optional Vans fuel pickups with the screens, and that is as
fine a filter as I want near the fuel tank. Usually, filters are very
coarse near the fuel pickup, then get finer the closer you get to the
carb. The gascolator is fine enough to pick up any particles large
enough to clog carb jets, and the only stuff I have found in the
gascolator screen in nearly 800 hrs was a few tiny black specks when the
plane was new.
A couple of years ago I purchased two glass automotive filters that I
intended to put in the wing roots and then remove the gascolator.
But....I chickened out after reconsidering why I would mess with a fuel
system that had been flawless for hundreds of hours on my RV, and
countless thousands of hours on other planes.
I certainly don't want to discourage anyone from exploring ways to
improve the RV breed, but it is probably good for new builders to be
very wary of changing critical flight systems without considering the
proven track record of planes that have been in service for a long time.
Sam Buchanan (1999 RV-6 Classic, 784 hrs)
EAA Tech Counselor
http://thervjournal.com
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Senator Ground Loops RV-8 |
Senator Inhofe is a very good defender of general aviation and is
against user fees. I used to be a Democrat until the party was taken
over by Socialists in the late 60's. The Senator by the way is also
right on Global Warming. What happened to the Ice Age predicting dome
and gloom in the 70's?
Sorry do not archive .
"You can't engage in a
battle of wits with a Liberal....They're unarmed. Tom in Ohio
----- Original Message -----
From: Sherman Butler
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2006 8:55 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Senator Ground Loops RV-8
Inhofe is a work, and lives in in his own reality. When the Tiger
prop fell off he balamed liberals.
"I was a Republican until they lost there minds." Charles Barkley
The senator was forced to make an emergency landing in 1999 at the
Claremore Municipal Airport after the propeller fell off the Grumman
American AA-5B he was flying.
The NTSB investigated that incident, and its report blamed an error
on
the prop installation.
Sherman Butler
RV-7a Wings
Idaho Falls
Message 14
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| Subject: | yet another rivet question |
--> RV-List message posted by: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com>
Yeah, make sure you don't hit it too hard, but also not too light or too
short a burst. That is, don't harden the rivet, which can happen with a
series of bursts. Try to get it set in one burst, not multiple bursts,
probably at most 4-6 taps of the gun should do the -3 rivets. You got to
have that certain rhythm, ya know.
John Jessen
#40328
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doug Gray
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 5:36 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: yet another rivet question
--> RV-List message posted by: Doug Gray <dgra1233@bigpond.net.au>
I use half that pressure and only about 4-5 hits with a 3x gun when back
riveting onto a steel plate.
Doug Gray
On Thu, 2006-10-05 at 17:55 -0700, Jeff Bearden wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Jeff Bearden" <jb.flynavy@gmail.com>
>
> I know you experienced folks get tired of the "is this crappy rivet ok?"
bit, but I gotta post another one. I'm back riveting the stiffeners into
the rudder and elevator skins of an -8. The rudder stiffener rivets turned
out fine, but upon inspection of the bottom side of the port elevator, I
found about 1/3 of the rivets look like the pictures. Essentially, the shop
head is flattening half of the dimple.
>
> These are the 3.5 length rivets as specified on the drawings. I'm match
drilling to #40, then dimpling. This sure seems to give an awfully big hole
for the 3/32 rivets to move around in, although the rudder turned out ok.
>
> As far as I can tell, my surface (back rivet plate) is level and the gun
is perpendicular. The working pressure is about 44 psi (avery 2x gun).
>
> I seem to get slightly better results by driving the rivets very slowly.
>
> Any advice to improve my technique??
> Thanks,
> Jeff[img][/img]
>
> --------
> -Clam
> ------------------
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=66083#66083
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/rivetok1_medium_164.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/rivetok2_medium_128.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/rivetok3_medium_166.jpg
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Senator Ground Loops RV-8 |
I cover politics for a living. Airplane building is how I get away from
it
and relax.
I beg you all. PLEASE. Resist the urge to start a politics thread, and
we
just did the global warming thing a few weeks ago and I'm guessing
nobody's
mind got changed.
So... how 'bout them RVs!!!!
Do not archive
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom & Cathy
Ervin
Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2006 10:21 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Senator Ground Loops RV-8
Senator Inhofe is a very good defender of general aviation and is
against
user fees. I used to be a Democrat until the party was taken over by
Socialists in the late 60's. The Senator by the way is also right on
Global
Warming. What happened to the Ice Age predicting dome and gloom in the
70's?
Sorry do not archive .
Message 16
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| Subject: | Facet Pump Failure |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bob Collins" <bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net>
I'm coming to this thread late so forgive me. I also don't really know
diddly, yet, about engines as I don't have one. I installed an Airflow HP
fuel pump because a lot of builders who I've been getting advice from did
(same rason I bought a TATCO hand squeezer so you'd think I'd learn, eh?)
When you talk about filtering both wings....do you mean separately? As
in,...two filters? As you may know the AF doesn't do that either.
I'm also still kickng around whether I should put a Gasoclator on my RV.
Some people say you don't need one with an AF pump, others say "why not?"
And for those with the AF pump, how do you service that filter without
having fuel spilling all over the the floor and carpet.
Apologies in advance if these sound stupid. I blame my parents for that. (g)
Do not archive.
Bob
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam Buchanan
> Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2006 9:45 AM
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Facet Pump Failure
>
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
>
> FLYaDIVE@aol.com wrote:
>
> > It all depends on what you consider the safe? Yes, it will
> pass fuel.
> > Will
> > it pass fuel in a high enough quantity for a take off, or
> when switching from
> > a dry tank, or when the throttle is fire-walled? I don't
> think so! And I
> > don't want to take the chance.
> > I know it will NOT pass fuel from a DRY PRIME START.
> > The cure is simply install a filter on BOTH feeds from the
> wing before it
> > hits the pump. The round Facet Pumps have a filter built
> into the bottom.
> > Van's did a great job designing our planes, GREAT, not
> PERFECT! And we are
> > here to help. I point out the use of a pop-rivet for the
> static port. Now how
> > many have used that method?
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Facet Pump Failure |
Bob, can't comment on the choice of pumps (I'll probably use the
cylindrical type) but here's my thoughts on gascolators.
1. they're a PITA to keep from leaking down the road and they're more
fittings to deal with.
2. if you sump, and the wing sumps are the lowest points, why do you
need another place to 'trap' stuff????
I'd put a replaceabler filter inline where you only have one line ......
such as after the tank valve, but before the pump ...... unless your
pump has a screen built in ....... just to catch the fine stuff that MAY
get past the sumps. Some folks feel that if you're going to have the
fittings for the filter, you just might as well go the gascolator route,
but you can buy a lot of filters for what you'd pay for the gascolator.
I guess there's no wrong way to approach this scenario so it boils down
to personal preference.
Linn
Bob Collins wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Bob Collins" <bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net>
>
>I'm coming to this thread late so forgive me. I also don't really know
>diddly, yet, about engines as I don't have one. I installed an Airflow HP
>fuel pump because a lot of builders who I've been getting advice from did
>(same rason I bought a TATCO hand squeezer so you'd think I'd learn, eh?)
>
>When you talk about filtering both wings....do you mean separately? As
>in,...two filters? As you may know the AF doesn't do that either.
>
>I'm also still kickng around whether I should put a Gasoclator on my RV.
>Some people say you don't need one with an AF pump, others say "why not?"
>
>And for those with the AF pump, how do you service that filter without
>having fuel spilling all over the the floor and carpet.
>
>Apologies in advance if these sound stupid. I blame my parents for that. (g)
>
>Do not archive.
>
>Bob
>
>
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
>>[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam Buchanan
>>Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2006 9:45 AM
>>To: rv-list@matronics.com
>>Subject: Re: RV-List: Facet Pump Failure
>>
>>
>>--> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
>>
>>FLYaDIVE@aol.com wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>It all depends on what you consider the safe? Yes, it will
>>>
>>>
>>pass fuel.
>>
>>
>>>Will
>>>it pass fuel in a high enough quantity for a take off, or
>>>
>>>
>>when switching from
>>
>>
>>>a dry tank, or when the throttle is fire-walled? I don't
>>>
>>>
>>think so! And I
>>
>>
>>>don't want to take the chance.
>>>I know it will NOT pass fuel from a DRY PRIME START.
>>>The cure is simply install a filter on BOTH feeds from the
>>>
>>>
>>wing before it
>>
>>
>>>hits the pump. The round Facet Pumps have a filter built
>>>
>>>
>>into the bottom.
>>
>>
>>>Van's did a great job designing our planes, GREAT, not
>>>
>>>
>>PERFECT! And we are
>>
>>
>>>here to help. I point out the use of a pop-rivet for the
>>>
>>>
>>static port. Now how
>>
>>
>>>many have used that method?
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Facet Pump Failure |
Please, don't put anything in-line on your fuel system unless it has a
bypass valve.
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of linn Walters
Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2006 1:46 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Facet Pump Failure
Bob, can't comment on the choice of pumps (I'll probably use the
cylindrical
type) but here's my thoughts on gascolators.
1. they're a PITA to keep from leaking down the road and they're more
fittings to deal with.
2. if you sump, and the wing sumps are the lowest points, why do you
need
another place to 'trap' stuff????
I'd put a replaceabler filter inline where you only have one line ......
such as after the tank valve, but before the pump ...... unless your
pump
has a screen built in ....... just to catch the fine stuff that MAY get
past
the sumps. Some folks feel that if you're going to have the fittings
for
the filter, you just might as well go the gascolator route, but you can
buy
a lot of filters for what you'd pay for the gascolator.
I guess there's no wrong way to approach this scenario so it boils down
to
personal preference.
Linn
Bob Collins wrote:
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bob Collins"
<mailto:bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net> <bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net>
I'm coming to this thread late so forgive me. I also don't really know
diddly, yet, about engines as I don't have one. I installed an Airflow
HP
fuel pump because a lot of builders who I've been getting advice from
did
(same rason I bought a TATCO hand squeezer so you'd think I'd learn,
eh?)
When you talk about filtering both wings....do you mean separately? As
in,...two filters? As you may know the AF doesn't do that either.
I'm also still kickng around whether I should put a Gasoclator on my RV.
Some people say you don't need one with an AF pump, others say "why
not?"
And for those with the AF pump, how do you service that filter without
having fuel spilling all over the the floor and carpet.
Apologies in advance if these sound stupid. I blame my parents for that.
(g)
Do not archive.
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam Buchanan
Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2006 9:45 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Facet Pump Failure
--> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan <mailto:sbuc@hiwaay.net>
<sbuc@hiwaay.net>
FLYaDIVE@aol.com wrote:
It all depends on what you consider the safe? Yes, it will
pass fuel.
Will
it pass fuel in a high enough quantity for a take off, or
when switching from
a dry tank, or when the throttle is fire-walled? I don't
think so! And I
don't want to take the chance.
I know it will NOT pass fuel from a DRY PRIME START.
The cure is simply install a filter on BOTH feeds from the
wing before it
hits the pump. The round Facet Pumps have a filter built
into the bottom.
Van's did a great job designing our planes, GREAT, not
PERFECT! And we are
here to help. I point out the use of a pop-rivet for the
static port. Now how
many have used that method?
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Senator Ground Loops RV-8 |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Kyle Boatright" <kboatright1@comcast.net>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hans Conser" <hansconser@gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2006 10:35 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Senator Ground Loops RV-8
> --> RV-List message posted by: Hans Conser <hansconser@gmail.com>
<<<snip>>>
> Yes it IS legal to have someone else build a plane for you. Ain't America
> great? Think about it though, if no one but the builder could fly a
> homebuilt plane, no one could ever sell their plane, or let another pilot
> touch the controls of that plane. Would that make much sense?
>
> Cheers
>
> Hans
It is not legal to have someone build an aircraft for you. Period.
Amateur/Experimentals are built for recreation and education, NOT as a money
making venture, which is where professional builders violate the rules.
>From an article written by Ron Alexander and published in Sport Aviation:
"To continue our discussion of FAR 21.191(g), it is clear that to
certificate an airplane under the experimental category for amateur-built
operation, we must assemble and construct at least 51% of the airplane. The
FAA emphasizes this restriction in at least two publications. The first is
FAA Order 8130.2C, which is the airworthiness certification manual used by
FAA Inspectors as a guide to inspect an airplane and to issue an
airworthiness certificate. On page 116 of that guide, the following
guidelines appear under the eligibility section. (1) "Amateur-built aircraft
may be eligible for an experimental airworthiness certificate when the
applicant presents satisfactory evidence that the aircraft was fabricated
and assembled by an individual or group of individuals." This section goes
on to state that the project must be undertaken for educational or
recreational purposes and the FAA must find that the airplane complies with
acceptable standards. Aircraft that are manufactured and assembled as a
business for sale are not considered to be amateur-built. This statement
appears within the Order: "NOTE: Amateur-built kit owner(s) will jeopardize
eligibility for certification under FAR 21.191(g) if someone else builds the
airplane." The applicant for amateur-built certification must sign a
notarized form (FAA Form 8130-12), certifying the major portion was
fabricated and assembled for educational or recreational purposes, and that
evidence is available to support the statement. The second place the 51%
rule is emphasized is in Advisory Circular 20-27D on page 5 under 7(b). This
section simply emphasizes the major portion rule."
As amateurs, we have a huge amount of leeway in building our own aircraft.
Wouldn't it be a huge shame if the FAA had a knee jerk reaction to this or
other instances of pro-built aircraft and made a mess of things for those of
us who follow the rules?
KB
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Senator Ground Loops RV-8 |
MessageBob, 1) This tread was started by a liberal notify them not me!
2) If you cover Politics for a living then we understand your
left wing slant.
3) Don't "Engage" and you won't get a reply.
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Collins
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2006 1:13 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Senator Ground Loops RV-8
I cover politics for a living. Airplane building is how I get away
from it and relax.
I beg you all. PLEASE. Resist the urge to start a politics thread,
and we just did the global warming thing a few weeks ago and I'm
guessing nobody's mind got changed.
So... how 'bout them RVs!!!!
Do not archive
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom & Cathy
Ervin
Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2006 10:21 AM
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: Senator Ground Loops RV-8
Senator Inhofe is a very good defender of general aviation and is
against user fees. I used to be a Democrat until the party was taken
over by Socialists in the late 60's. The Senator by the way is also
right on Global Warming. What happened to the Ice Age predicting dome
and gloom in the 70's?
Sorry do not archive .
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Facet Pump Failure |
--> RV-List message posted by: "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer@hotmail.com>
I remember reading from EAA the following statistics.
Running out of gas was the number 1 cause of engine stoppage in Amateur
Built aircraft.
Number 2 was fuel stoppage due to changes in fuel system.
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
1,953 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Senator Ground Loops RV-8 |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Frank Stringham" <fstringham@hotmail.com>
To all you wingers right or left
How is your project coming and don't you just love WINGS on planes!!!!!!!!!!
Frank @ SGU and SLC......wiring
>From: "Tom & Cathy Ervin" <tcervin@valkyrie.net>
>To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Senator Ground Loops RV-8
>Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2006 15:08:30 -0400
>
>MessageBob, 1) This tread was started by a liberal notify them not me!
> 2) If you cover Politics for a living then we understand your
>left wing slant.
> 3) Don't "Engage" and you won't get a reply.
>
> Do Not Archive
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Bob Collins
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2006 1:13 PM
> Subject: RE: RV-List: Senator Ground Loops RV-8
>
>
> I cover politics for a living. Airplane building is how I get away from
>it and relax.
>
> I beg you all. PLEASE. Resist the urge to start a politics thread, and
>we just did the global warming thing a few weeks ago and I'm guessing
>nobody's mind got changed.
>
> So... how 'bout them RVs!!!!
>
> Do not archive
>
> Bob
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom & Cathy Ervin
> Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2006 10:21 AM
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Senator Ground Loops RV-8
>
>
> Senator Inhofe is a very good defender of general aviation and is
>against user fees. I used to be a Democrat until the party was taken over
>by Socialists in the late 60's. The Senator by the way is also right on
>Global Warming. What happened to the Ice Age predicting dome and gloom in
>the 70's?
> Sorry do not archive .
>
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Senator Ground Loops RV-8 |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bob Collins" <bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net>
Wings are cool. I'm putting the empennage on, everything's going great.
Going to make the pushrood for the elevators now. Here's a question -- oh,
maybe I should ask: the RV list is still a place to ask questions about
building an RV, right? (g) -- when you drill the holes to attach the VA-XXX
to the tube, I usually drill both at the same time. But there's no deburring
possibility because if I should be able to remove the VA-XXX to deburr it,
the odds seem stacked against getting it back in and the holes to align
properly for riveting. How do you all approach this mundane task.
As for my left wing slant. I don't have one...or a right one. But I do have
a forward sweep, but only 1/32" and Van's says don't worry 'bout it unless
it's a 1/2". So I don't.
Bob
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Frank Stringham
> Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2006 2:53 PM
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Senator Ground Loops RV-8
>
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Frank Stringham"
> --> <fstringham@hotmail.com>
>
> To all you wingers right or left
>
> How is your project coming and don't you just love WINGS on
> planes!!!!!!!!!!
>
> Frank @ SGU and SLC......wiring
>
>
> >From: "Tom & Cathy Ervin" <tcervin@valkyrie.net>
> >To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> >Subject: Re: RV-List: Senator Ground Loops RV-8
> >Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2006 15:08:30 -0400
> >
> >MessageBob, 1) This tread was started by a liberal notify
> them not me!
> > 2) If you cover Politics for a living then we understand
> >your
> >left wing slant.
> > 3) Don't "Engage" and you won't get a reply.
> >
>
> > Do Not Archive
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Bob Collins
> > To: rv-list@matronics.com
> > Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2006 1:13 PM
> > Subject: RE: RV-List: Senator Ground Loops RV-8
> >
> >
> > I cover politics for a living. Airplane building is how I
> get away
> >from
> >it and relax.
> >
> > I beg you all. PLEASE. Resist the urge to start a
> politics thread, and
> >we just did the global warming thing a few weeks ago and I'm guessing
> >nobody's mind got changed.
> >
> > So... how 'bout them RVs!!!!
> >
> > Do not archive
> >
> > Bob
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> >[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom
> & Cathy Ervin
> > Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2006 10:21 AM
> > To: rv-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: RV-List: Senator Ground Loops RV-8
> >
> >
> > Senator Inhofe is a very good defender of general
> aviation and is
> >against user fees. I used to be a Democrat until the party
> was taken over
> >by Socialists in the late 60's. The Senator by the way is
> also right on
> >Global Warming. What happened to the Ice Age predicting dome
> and gloom in
> >the 70's?
> > Sorry do not archive .
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 24
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--> RV-List message posted by: Robert Dickson <robert@thenews-journal.com>
I've got an RV-6A that was painted (for the first time) last
November. I was, and am, pleased with my paint job. Most of the flaws
are due to my errors, not the paint shop.
That said, over the past several months I've had the paint start
making little bubbles in a ring around some of the stainless screw
heads on the fuel tanks and the wing tips. It's obvious that at some
point these bubbles are going to crack and the paint is going to
flake off.
The paint shop said I had a year warranty so I went back to see the
painter this past week. He was really scratching his head over how to
keep this from happening again after he fixes the current problem.
The screws were all hand-tightened after the plane was painted so I'm
pretty sure they weren't over torqued.
I assured the painter, a conscientious young man who has painted many
airplanes, that there are bunches of RVs out there flying around with
unpainted stainless screws holding the tanks and tips on that don't
have my problem. He doesn't seem to doubt me but I don't think he
feels confident that he can apply the paint so it won't happen again.
My opinion is that he just put too much paint on but he doesn't think
so.
So I thought I'd ask the list what your experiences are in this area.
Do you have unpainted stainless screws attaching your tanks and wing
tips? Have you had any problem with bubbles forming around the
screws? Is is just too much paint? Or contamination? I told the
painter I'd ask these questions and report back.
thanks,
Robert Dickson
RV-6A
Carrboro NC
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Senator Ground Loops RV-8 |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bill Boyd" <sportav8r@gmail.com>
I see your point there, Kyle, and largely agree, especially with not
wanting to lose a precious privilege. However, there are alot of
repeat offenders out there who build an RV and have hardly flown the
time off before they have it up for sale and are building again. And
it's hard to imagine building an experimental airplane kit, even for
the tenth time, and not learning anything from it or enjoying the
process. If we're learning and enjoying, I believe we've got
"recreation and education" pretty well covered, even for purposes of
parsing words in court. (That could depend on what your definition of
"is" is <g>.)
-Stormy
On 10/7/06, Kyle Boatright <kboatright1@comcast.net> wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Kyle Boatright" <kboatright1@comcast.net>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Hans Conser" <hansconser@gmail.com>
> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2006 10:35 AM
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Senator Ground Loops RV-8
>
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: Hans Conser <hansconser@gmail.com>
>
> <<<snip>>>
>
> > Yes it IS legal to have someone else build a plane for you. Ain't America
> > great? Think about it though, if no one but the builder could fly a
> > homebuilt plane, no one could ever sell their plane, or let another pilot
> > touch the controls of that plane. Would that make much sense?
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Hans
>
>
> It is not legal to have someone build an aircraft for you. Period.
> Amateur/Experimentals are built for recreation and education, NOT as a money
> making venture, which is where professional builders violate the rules.
>
> >From an article written by Ron Alexander and published in Sport Aviation:
>
> "To continue our discussion of FAR 21.191(g), it is clear that to
> certificate an airplane under the experimental category for amateur-built
> operation, we must assemble and construct at least 51% of the airplane. The
> FAA emphasizes this restriction in at least two publications. The first is
> FAA Order 8130.2C, which is the airworthiness certification manual used by
> FAA Inspectors as a guide to inspect an airplane and to issue an
> airworthiness certificate. On page 116 of that guide, the following
> guidelines appear under the eligibility section. (1) "Amateur-built aircraft
> may be eligible for an experimental airworthiness certificate when the
> applicant presents satisfactory evidence that the aircraft was fabricated
> and assembled by an individual or group of individuals." This section goes
> on to state that the project must be undertaken for educational or
> recreational purposes and the FAA must find that the airplane complies with
> acceptable standards. Aircraft that are manufactured and assembled as a
> business for sale are not considered to be amateur-built. This statement
> appears within the Order: "NOTE: Amateur-built kit owner(s) will jeopardize
> eligibility for certification under FAR 21.191(g) if someone else builds the
> airplane." The applicant for amateur-built certification must sign a
> notarized form (FAA Form 8130-12), certifying the major portion was
> fabricated and assembled for educational or recreational purposes, and that
> evidence is available to support the statement. The second place the 51%
> rule is emphasized is in Advisory Circular 20-27D on page 5 under 7(b). This
> section simply emphasizes the major portion rule."
>
>
> As amateurs, we have a huge amount of leeway in building our own aircraft.
> Wouldn't it be a huge shame if the FAA had a knee jerk reaction to this or
> other instances of pro-built aircraft and made a mess of things for those of
> us who follow the rules?
>
> KB
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Facet Pump Failure |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
> And for those with the AF pump, how do you service that filter without
> having fuel spilling all over the the floor and carpet.
1. Fuel valve OFF when you do this.
2. If you can, let the plane sit overnight (after the last run) before you
crack open the fittings at the filter.
3. Put a rag under it.
A little fuel does drip out, but if you keep the filter *level* as you
remove it, you shouldn't spill any. Once you have the filter out of the
airplane, tip it and dump out whatever residual fuel was in there.
I've done this half a dozen times and it's no big deal. Obviously don't do
it with the system pressurized. ;-)
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D (1088 hours)
www.rvproject.com / www.weathermeister.com
Message 27
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|
| Subject: | KLX-135A Wiring Diagram |
Would anyone on the list have a King KLX-135A wiring diagram? Need
diagram that depicts avionics rack connector pin arrangement,
specifically which pins are used for database update cable.
H. Williamson
Message 28
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|
| Subject: | Re: KLX-135A Wiring Diagram |
I've got one, ping me direct and I will get it for you tomorrow.
Bob
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Senator Ground Loops RV-8 |
MessageThank You Bob!! and Amen. Now how about another prime discussion?
Do not archive.
Charlie Ennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Collins
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2006 12:13 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Senator Ground Loops RV-8
I cover politics for a living. Airplane building is how I get away
from it and relax.
I beg you all. PLEASE. Resist the urge to start a politics thread,
and we just did the global warming thing a few weeks ago and I'm
guessing nobody's mind got changed.
So... how 'bout them RVs!!!!
Do not archive
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom & Cathy
Ervin
Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2006 10:21 AM
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: Senator Ground Loops RV-8
Senator Inhofe is a very good defender of general aviation and is
against user fees. I used to be a Democrat until the party was taken
over by Socialists in the late 60's. The Senator by the way is also
right on Global Warming. What happened to the Ice Age predicting dome
and gloom in the 70's?
Sorry do not archive .
Message 30
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|
| Subject: | Re: Senator Ground Loops RV-8 |
The easiest solution to this problem is to purchase the kit, ship it to the person
building the airplane. Have that person build it, and that person apply for
the airworthiness certificate.
That way, the person who built it, did it for "recreation and education." Then,
the builder sells it to the new owner for the construction fees. Perfectly
within the regs at that point. Kind of a loophole, but nevertheless, you are
"buying" the airplane from the person who built it, not paying them to build
and claim that you are the builder. The only thing is, the new owner can't have
a repairman's certficate, but he shouldn't anyway if he didn't build it.
One problem with this solution is, however, is that the "professional kit builder"
mentioned above, now has his name on the airworthiness certficate forever,
and if he does many different aircraft, then he is opening up many legal windows
for anyone who may have an accident in one of the airplanes down the road.
Agreed on the previous statements, however, that if this industry doesn't play
by the rules, experimental aviation could be changed significantly.
Paul Besing
Kyle Boatright <kboatright1@comcast.net> wrote:
--> RV-List message posted by: "Kyle Boatright"
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hans Conser"
Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2006 10:35 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Senator Ground Loops RV-8
> --> RV-List message posted by: Hans Conser
<<>>
> Yes it IS legal to have someone else build a plane for you. Ain't America
> great? Think about it though, if no one but the builder could fly a
> homebuilt plane, no one could ever sell their plane, or let another pilot
> touch the controls of that plane. Would that make much sense?
>
> Cheers
>
> Hans
It is not legal to have someone build an aircraft for you. Period.
Amateur/Experimentals are built for recreation and education, NOT as a money
making venture, which is where professional builders violate the rules.
>From an article written by Ron Alexander and published in Sport Aviation:
"To continue our discussion of FAR 21.191(g), it is clear that to
certificate an airplane under the experimental category for amateur-built
operation, we must assemble and construct at least 51% of the airplane. The
FAA emphasizes this restriction in at least two publications. The first is
FAA Order 8130.2C, which is the airworthiness certification manual used by
FAA Inspectors as a guide to inspect an airplane and to issue an
airworthiness certificate. On page 116 of that guide, the following
guidelines appear under the eligibility section. (1) "Amateur-built aircraft
may be eligible for an experimental airworthiness certificate when the
applicant presents satisfactory evidence that the aircraft was fabricated
and assembled by an individual or group of individuals." This section goes
on to state that the project must be undertaken for educational or
recreational purposes and the FAA must find that the airplane complies with
acceptable standards. Aircraft that are manufactured and assembled as a
business for sale are not considered to be amateur-built. This statement
appears within the Order: "NOTE: Amateur-built kit owner(s) will jeopardize
eligibility for certification under FAR 21.191(g) if someone else builds the
airplane." The applicant for amateur-built certification must sign a
notarized form (FAA Form 8130-12), certifying the major portion was
fabricated and assembled for educational or recreational purposes, and that
evidence is available to support the statement. The second place the 51%
rule is emphasized is in Advisory Circular 20-27D on page 5 under 7(b). This
section simply emphasizes the major portion rule."
As amateurs, we have a huge amount of leeway in building our own aircraft.
Wouldn't it be a huge shame if the FAA had a knee jerk reaction to this or
other instances of pro-built aircraft and made a mess of things for those of
us who follow the rules?
KB
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