Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:09 AM - Re: Internal rivets on the leading edge-to-spar (William Gill)
2. 05:42 AM - Re: Drill bits (Craig)
3. 06:30 AM - paint issues (Mark Frederick)
4. 08:28 AM - Re: Drill Bits (Oldsfolks@aol.com)
5. 08:34 AM - Re: Drill bits ()
6. 08:49 AM - Re: Drill bits (Bruce Gray)
7. 09:12 AM - Re: Re: Drill bits ()
8. 09:56 AM - Re: Internal rivets on the leading edge-to-spar (Glaeser, Dennis A)
9. 03:41 PM - Re: (gordon or marge)
10. 06:50 PM - Re: Senator Ground Loops RV-8 (Sherman Butler)
11. 07:34 PM - DRDT-2 table pic (Bill and Tami Britton)
12. 09:20 PM - static port line (sarg314)
13. 10:01 PM - Re: static port line (Steve Allison)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Internal rivets on the leading edge-to-spar |
--> RV-List message posted by: "William Gill" <wgill10@comcast.net>
Hello Randy,
I did this solo with the wing still mounted on the wing stand using a 3X
gun and a heavy bucking bar -- 2 or 3 lbs I think. The manufacturers
head is on the aft side of the spar. They came out very nice.
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy Tonkin
Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 1:41 AM
Subject: RV-List: Internal rivets on the leading edge-to-spar
--> RV-List message posted by: Randy Tonkin <rctonkin@comcast.net>
I have a question that came up recently, perhaps some of you can
remember back to the wing construction phase and help me:
When attaching the leading edge assembly to the spar, outboard of the
fuel tank, you are suppose to rivet the forward rib flange to the spar
using an offset rivet set. I did this with the gun on the spar side and
the bucking bar held by another person reaching way inside through the
leading edge lightening holes. The results are not very pretty as the
manufactured head is against the thick spar material and the shop head
forms on the thinner rib flange side. With the spar absorbing the blows
from the gun, it takes much longer for the shop head to form, and does
not hold the rib flange snugly against the spar during the process.
Also, the manufactured head inevitably develops a significant smile
distortion because the position of the set is affected by the proximity
of the central wing ribs. I was not happy, but found drilling out these
particular rivets very messy, making the results go from bad to worse.
After doing the work, I have begun to think I was suppose to set the
rivets in the other direction (manufactured head forward), requiring
the gun to be located deep inside the leading edge, through the
lightening holes. This appears difficult but maybe not impossible,
however, nothing I have read specifies to do this.
If anyone has recently been down this road, how did you drive these
rivets, and did you have any troubles or concerns about the results?
probably do not archive something that should be this obvious.
Randy Tonkin
RV8 Wings
Vashon Island, WA
Message 2
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Listers,
Thanks for the feedback on drilling hardened steel. Lessons learned:
Use cobalt bits. (actually, I started with them but I thought another type
might work better and resorted to the Lowes "titanium" bits ..... bad choice)
Drill slowly. I was using an air drill and going much too fast.
Lubricate. I was using some of my air tool oil, but this was not very good
at such high drill speeds.
Thanks for your help.
Craig
Message 3
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Piece o cake: take your de-burr tool and clean the paint/primer out of the
dimples before screwing the screws in. Don't remove any material -- just
scrape the paint out. Might need to sharpen your tool 1st...
Carry on!
Mark
Time: 01:27:36 PM PST US
From: Robert Dickson <robert@thenews-journal.com>
Subject: RV-List: paint issues
--> RV-List message posted by: Robert Dickson <robert@thenews-journal.com>
I've got an RV-6A that was painted (for the first time) last
November. I was, and am, pleased with my paint job. Most of the flaws
are due to my errors, not the paint shop.
That said, over the past several months I've had the paint start
making little bubbles in a ring around some of the stainless screw
heads on the fuel tanks and the wing tips. It's obvious that at some
point these bubbles are going to crack and the paint is going to
flake off.
The paint shop said I had a year warranty so I went back to see the
painter this past week. He was really scratching his head over how to
keep this from happening again after he fixes the current problem.
The screws were all hand-tightened after the plane was painted so I'm
pretty sure they weren't over torqued.
I assured the painter, a conscientious young man who has painted many
airplanes, that there are bunches of RVs out there flying around with
unpainted stainless screws holding the tanks and tips on that don't
have my problem. He doesn't seem to doubt me but I don't think he
feels confident that he can apply the paint so it won't happen again.
My opinion is that he just put too much paint on but he doesn't think
so.
So I thought I'd ask the list what your experiences are in this area.
Do you have unpainted stainless screws attaching your tanks and wing
tips? Have you had any problem with bubbles forming around the
screws? Is is just too much paint? Or contamination? I told the
painter I'd ask these questions and report back.
thanks,
Robert Dickson
RV-6A
Carrboro NC
Message 4
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Craig;
At your NAPA store get "Rapid Tap" cutting fluid. It comes in a small can
like 3 in 1 oil. Get one can for steel and another for aluminum.
The Cobalt drill, low speed and Rapid Tap should get the job done.
For drilling and tapping inside aluminum tube you need the Rapid Tap for
aluminum.
Bob Olds
two time builder RV-4
Charleston,Arkansas
Message 5
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--> RV-List message posted by: <chaztuna@adelphia.net>
---- David Burton <dburton@nwlink.com> wrote:
>
>
> I just ran through about a half dozen drill bits drilling the cotter pin
> holes in one wheel axle of my RV8A. That is some tough steel! Does anyone
> have a suggestion on what kind of drill bits to use here? There has got to
> be something tougher than the "titanium" bits I got at Lowes.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Craig Gallenbach
> RV8A ...... trying to get it on the gear
>
>
>
> Well, Lowes is not the place to buy drill bits.
>
> High speed steel from a source like the ones Charley suggested will be OK.
> Avery or Cleveland also sells good drill bits
>
> I'd also suggest learning how to sharpen a drill bit. It only takes a few
> seconds. I'm working out of the same drill bit set I purchased in the late
> 60s. I admit that I purchase bags of #30 etc because they are cheap and I
> want them sharp and true. The smaller the drill bit the more fussy they can
> be to sharpen.
>
> It's important to use the correct cutting fluid to drill aluminum or steel.
> Obviously we don't use cutting fluid when drilling skins. Thicker parts
> require cutting fluid to keep from damaging your bit. The pressure and
> temperature the cutting edge of your bit experiences is great. Cutting
> fluid and not just any oil you have handy will make a huge difference.
>
> Good luck,
>
> Dave
Craig,
Both Bob J and Dave offer good advice. I also sharpen bits above 3/16" diameter.
Small bits are hard to sharpen (hey, I'm over 50, my eyes aren't the greatest
anymore) small bits. Small #30 and #40 Cobolt bits cost twice what quality
HHS (high speed steel) bits do. However, I find that they last 5 times longer
when drilling 2024-T3 aluminum. Be cheap, buy quality!
Charlie Kuss
Message 6
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce@glasair.org>
The best investment I made was high quality drill bits and a Drill Doctor to
sharpen them.
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
chaztuna@adelphia.net
Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 11:34 AM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Drill bits
--> RV-List message posted by: <chaztuna@adelphia.net>
---- David Burton <dburton@nwlink.com> wrote:
>
>
> I just ran through about a half dozen drill bits drilling the cotter pin
> holes in one wheel axle of my RV8A. That is some tough steel! Does
anyone
> have a suggestion on what kind of drill bits to use here? There has got
to
> be something tougher than the "titanium" bits I got at Lowes.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Craig Gallenbach
> RV8A ...... trying to get it on the gear
>
>
>
> Well, Lowes is not the place to buy drill bits.
>
> High speed steel from a source like the ones Charley suggested will be OK.
> Avery or Cleveland also sells good drill bits
>
> I'd also suggest learning how to sharpen a drill bit. It only takes a few
> seconds. I'm working out of the same drill bit set I purchased in the
late
> 60s. I admit that I purchase bags of #30 etc because they are cheap and I
> want them sharp and true. The smaller the drill bit the more fussy they
can
> be to sharpen.
>
> It's important to use the correct cutting fluid to drill aluminum or
steel.
> Obviously we don't use cutting fluid when drilling skins. Thicker parts
> require cutting fluid to keep from damaging your bit. The pressure and
> temperature the cutting edge of your bit experiences is great. Cutting
> fluid and not just any oil you have handy will make a huge difference.
>
> Good luck,
>
> Dave
Craig,
Both Bob J and Dave offer good advice. I also sharpen bits above 3/16"
diameter. Small bits are hard to sharpen (hey, I'm over 50, my eyes aren't
the greatest anymore) small bits. Small #30 and #40 Cobolt bits cost twice
what quality HHS (high speed steel) bits do. However, I find that they last
5 times longer when drilling 2024-T3 aluminum. Be cheap, buy quality!
Charlie Kuss
Message 7
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--> RV-List message posted by: <chaztuna@adelphia.net>
---- Craig <craigtxtx@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Listers,
>
> Thanks for the feedback on drilling hardened steel. Lessons learned:
>
>
> Use cobalt bits. (actually, I started with them but I thought another type
might work better and resorted to the Lowes "titanium" bits ..... bad choice)
> Drill slowly. I was using an air drill and going much too fast.
> Lubricate. I was using some of my air tool oil, but this was not very good
at such high drill speeds.
> Thanks for your help.
>
> Craig
Craig,
TIN (titanium) drill bits are only coated with Titanium, so they are not that
great. The purpose of cutting oil is to cool the drill bit, not the lubricate.
Cutting oils generally have a high sulfur content. Air drills are a no no for
drilling steel.
Charlie Kuss
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Internal rivets on the leading edge-to-spar |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Glaeser, Dennis A" <dennis.glaeser@eds.com>
Van's allows the use of LP4 rivets in those locations as an option for
those of us who have fat arms and aren't double jointed :-) (Dan C has
this documented on his site). Even those require a rivet puller that
can get close enough (just like the rivets that hold the attach brackets
to the back of the tanks).
Dennis Glaeser
RV7A Finishing Kit
--> RV-List message posted by: Randy Tonkin
I have a question that came up recently, perhaps some of you can
remember back to the wing construction phase and help me:
When attaching the leading edge assembly to the spar, outboard of the
fuel tank, you are suppose to rivet the forward rib flange to the spar
using an offset rivet set. I did this with the gun on the spar side and
the bucking bar held by another person reaching way inside through the
leading edge lightening holes. The results are not very pretty as the
manufactured head is against the thick spar material and the shop head
forms on the thinner rib flange side. With the spar absorbing the blows
from the gun, it takes much longer for the shop head to form, and does
not hold the rib flange snugly against the spar during the process.
Also, the manufactured head inevitably develops a significant smile
distortion because the position of the set is affected by the proximity
of the central wing ribs. I was not happy, but found drilling out these
particular rivets very messy, making the results go from bad to worse.
After doing the work, I have begun to think I was suppose to set the
rivets in the other direction (manufactured head forward), requiring
the gun to be located deep inside the leading edge, through the
lightening holes. This appears difficult but maybe not impossible,
however, nothing I have read specifies to do this.
If anyone has recently been down this road, how did you drive these
rivets, and did you have any troubles or concerns about the results?
probably do not archive something that should be this obvious.
Randy Tonkin
RV8 Wings
Vashon Island, WA
Message 9
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--> RV-List message posted by: "gordon or marge" <gcomfo@tc3net.com>
Listers:
Does anyone on the list know whether or not the magazine "Experimental
Aircraft Technology" is still being published? I received several issues
and did not follow up promptly when they stopped. Recent efforts to contact
them by e-mail and telephone have not been successful. Bret Hahn lives (or
lived) in White Sands, NM and Enchanted Publications was there also. I
found Enchanted in Ruidoso, NM but they don't answer their phone either. I
liked what I saw and would like to see more if that is possible.
Gordon Comfort
N363GC
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Senator Ground Loops RV-8 |
I guess need to apologize for not connecting the dots.
Yes, Sen Inhofe has done good things for aviation.
Could he have done more? dunno
The political winds seem to be changing i.e Barkley.
He has baggage that can interfere with his effectiveness if the winds do change.
Aviation needs to court more political friends.
It was not to be an engagement with the PC crowd
I would like to have a better working government.
Do not archive
Tom & Cathy Ervin <tcervin@valkyrie.net> wrote:
Bob, 1) This tread was started by a liberal notify them not me!
2) If you cover Politics for a living then we understand your left
wing slant.
3) Don't "Engage" and you won't get a reply.
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Collins
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2006 1:13 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Senator Ground Loops RV-8
I cover politics for a living. Airplane building is how I get away from it and
relax.
I beg you all. PLEASE. Resist the urge to start a politics thread, and we just
did the global warming thing a few weeks ago and I'm guessing nobody's mind
got changed.
So... how 'bout them RVs!!!!
Do not archive
Bob
-----
Sherman Butler
RV-7a Wings
Idaho Falls
---------------------------------
Get your email and more, right on the new Yahoo.com
Message 11
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| Subject: | DRDT-2 table pic |
Guys, sorry it took me so long to get you some pictures. It's been
pretty busy on the farm this fall but luckily we're getting a little
moisture tonight so we've got a little bit of a break. Anyway, here's
pictures of the 3 X 5 tables with the DRDT-2 setup I put together. (Not
sure if my tables are acutally 3 X 5 but that shouldn't matter that
much).
Any ????'s just ask.
Bill Britton
If you can, I'd like some pictures, too. Thanks.
John Jessen (with an unused DRDT-2 and a couple tables that might work.)
#40328
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill and Tami
Britton
Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 6:16 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: DRDT-2 Table
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bill and Tami Britton"
--> <william@gbta.net>
Les, I've got 2 of the 3' X 5' tables also. Due to lack of space in my
garage for another table that will be used minimally, I just slid the
two
tables together end to end and screwed the DRDT-2 to a 2 X 6, then I
screwed
the 2 X 6 on to the legs of each table (so the dimpling sets were flush
with
the table top). Now, when I don't need it (the DRDT-2) I can either
unscrew
the dimpler form the board and leave the board on the tables (leaves me
a
gap between tables about 6-8 inches wide) or remove the board
completely. I
know that every time I need to do some dimpling I have to mess with
screwing
either the whole setup back on or atleast the dimpler back on. But, for
no
more often than you really use the dimpler it's not that big of a deal,
especially if you've got a cordless drill.
CLEAR AS MUD, right???
If you would like to see some pictures let me know.
Bill Britton
Message 12
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| Subject: | static port line |
--> RV-List message posted by: sarg314 <sarg314@comcast.net>
I am installing my static port line (RV-6A), following van's
instructions. I need some way of keeping the poly tube up under the top
longeron as it goes forward from the F-607 bulkhead where it
originates. Just a couple of support points are needed back there.
The only thing I can think of is to drill a #40 hole (maybe a tad
larger) at 2 points in the longeron and run a tie wrap through it. Does
any one have a better suggestion?
Tom Sargent, RV-6A.
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: static port line |
--> RV-List message posted by: Steve Allison <stevea@svpal.org>
sarg314 wrote:
> I am installing my static port line (RV-6A), following van's
> instructions. I need some way of keeping the poly tube up under the
> top longeron as it goes forward from the F-607 bulkhead where it
> originates. Just a couple of support points are needed back there.
>
> Tom Sargent, RV-6A.
Use some adhesive backed cable tie mounts or adhesive backed cable
clips. Examples shown here: http://www.mouser.com/catalog/627/800.pdf
If/when the adhesive dries out and and fails, nothing particularly bad
happens. The static line will droop down below the canopy
deck/longeron. Throw the old ones away, stick some new ones in place,
re-secure the static line, and go fly.
Steve
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