---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 10/17/06: 14 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:26 AM - Re: Bushings vs. Conduit for wing wiring/QB wing stands (RV6 Flyer) 2. 03:50 AM - Re: 1st time engine start (Brian Alley) 3. 04:01 AM - Re: Bushings vs. Conduit for wing wiring/QB wing stands (FLYaDIVE@aol.com) 4. 06:15 AM - Re: RV-List Digest: 22 Msgs - 10/16/06 (glen matejcek) 5. 06:48 AM - Re: Question on posting (Bob Collins) 6. 08:48 AM - FS: MicroMonitor, Air Vents and Transponder (glennpaulwilkinson) 7. 10:03 AM - Re: Question on posting (Tedd McHenry) 8. 07:52 PM - test (Fiveonepw@aol.com) 9. 08:03 PM - Re: RV6 ram air issues (don wentz) 10. 08:08 PM - Re: test Success (Tim Bryan) 11. 08:22 PM - Wing skin oil-canning (Doug Fischer) 12. 08:42 PM - Re: Wing skin oil-canning (sarg314) 13. 09:10 PM - Re: Wing skin oil-canning (Bob Collins) 14. 09:40 PM - Re: Wing skin oil-canning (Vanremog@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:26:34 AM PST US From: "RV6 Flyer" Subject: RE: RV-List: Bushings vs. Conduit for wing wiring/QB wing stands --> RV-List message posted by: "RV6 Flyer" About 15 years ago, I asked Van at the Merced fly-in the same question. Van told me that the conduit was too heavy for him. I have snap bushings in the ribs along the spar. I have the NAV antenna coax in one set. (forget it if was the TOP or bottom of the wing.) The other set of holes I ran the power wires for the landing lights, strobe power supply (one in each wingtip) and nav lights. Gary A. Sobek "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell, 1,954 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA ----Original Message Follows---- From: Paul Folbrecht Subject: RV-List: Bushings vs. Conduit for wing wiring/QB wing stands --> RV-List message posted by: Paul Folbrecht I bought Van's conduit, but now I am rethinking this. Any real reason to prefer the conduit to using bushings? The latter requires only enlarging existing holes while the conduit requires new 3/4" holes in each rib. Then again, since I am doing navs/strobes and wingtip landing lights (all Creative Air) as well as a NAV antenna in one tip and COM in the other (that's COM2 with 1 under the belly), maybe I'll need BOTH. That is, two runs. Will I? About the wing stand that Van's has on the plans: certainly this is not needed for QB wings. I am wondering what is the best way to work on the wings in general: leave them in the cradle (the Checkoway style cradle I built), table-top, sawhorses. I am out of town and cannot look at the manual - have these thoughts going through my head, as I'll be starting on the wings next week. Paul 9A QB 1176 do not archive ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:50:07 AM PST US From: Brian Alley Subject: Re: RV-List: 1st time engine start I just completed a piston swap in my 0320 to change from 150 to 160 HP. I was advised to keep the cylinder head temps at 200 or less until the all important first flight. When I did make the first flight I climbed to 5500 and ran full throttle for 5 minutes, 23" map for 5 minutes then 22" for an hour. I did what i need to do to keep the cylinder temps below 400. My cylinder temps dropped 30 degrees 20 minutes into the flight indicating that the rings had seated to the freshly honed cylinders. These are plain steel cylinders and you should expect to see the same thing happen, but it could take several hours with hardened barrels. BRIAN ALLEY (N320WT) CARBON FIBER COMPOSITES 101 Caroline Circle Hurricane, WV 25526 www.carbonfibercomposites.net 304-562-6800 home 304-395-4932 cell How are you going to win by a nose if you don't stick out your neck? ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:01:33 AM PST US From: FLYaDIVE@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Bushings vs. Conduit for wing wiring/QB wing stands In a message dated 10/17/2006 4:28:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, rv6_flyer@hotmail.com writes: About 15 years ago, I asked Van at the Merced fly-in the same question. Van told me that the conduit was too heavy for him. ==================== Wow, I knew Van was weight conscious but how heavy is a piece of thin wall plastic tubing? The 3/4" is a bit large, all you need is 1/2" or what ever would fit into the existing holes and I would guess the weight for both wings would be just about 2 Lbs. Then again, 15 years ago is a long time back. Back then Van was a purest and did not have the QB Kits. Barry "Chop'd Liver" ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:15:48 AM PST US From: "glen matejcek" Subject: RV-List: RE: RV-List Digest: 22 Msgs - 10/16/06 --> RV-List message posted by: "glen matejcek" Hi Paul- I'd go with the conduit. Once the wing is closed up, adding wires, or even removing ones that are clamped snugly, would be problematic. With a conduit, you just leave a fish line in place, and you can easily add or remove wires at your convenience. As to working on the wings, I just put that rubbery non-skid carpet underlayment on my work table and put the wing on top of that. It cushions the wing and keeps it from scooting around while you work on it. No bracketry or jigging is ever in the way. I'd use that technique again in a heartbeat. > From: Paul Folbrecht > Subject: RV-List: Bushings vs. Conduit for wing wiring/QB wing stands > > --> RV-List message posted by: Paul Folbrecht > > I bought Van's conduit, but now I am rethinking this. Any real > reason to prefer the conduit to using bushings? > > About the wing stand that Van's has on the plans: certainly this is > not needed for QB wings. I am wondering what is the best way to work > on the wings in general: glen matejcek aerobubba@earthlink.net ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:48:04 AM PST US From: "Bob Collins" Subject: RE: RV-List: Question on posting Might be using Word for your e-mail editor. Word uses things like "smartie quotes" which regular html can't figure out. Question marks, apostrophes, quotation marks, colons, sem-colons. As with everything else, it's Bill Gates' fault. (g) Bob St. Paul -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jrlewismail-rv@yahoo.com Sent: Monday, October 16, 2006 7:18 PM Subject: RV-List: Question on posting Someone please tell me the trick to posting a message that does not end up scrambled with extra characters. I have posted several notes and each gets trashed. What am I doing wrong? R, JRL ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:48:33 AM PST US From: "glennpaulwilkinson" Subject: RV-List: FS: MicroMonitor, Air Vents and Transponder Rocky Mt. MicroMonitor includes 2 backup batteries and all manuals 2nd digit of CHT is dim but readable, factory says can be fixed in the field. $650.00 OBO Aluminum Air Vents eyeball type, full swivel, clear anodized, also includes 2 new hose flanges. Spruce sell for 176.50 ea. Asking $150.00 Terra TRT 250 Transponder w/ Terra AT-3000 Blind Encoder Set for $500.00 OBO Glenn Wilkinson gpww@alltel.net 478-452-6813 wk 478-453-3297 hw ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:03:56 AM PST US From: Tedd McHenry Subject: RE: RV-List: Question on posting --> RV-List message posted by: Tedd McHenry > Someone please tell me the trick to posting a message that does not end up > scrambled with extra characters. I have posted several notes and each gets > trashed. What am I doing wrong? The simplest thing is to send your email as plain text, rather than HTML, RTF, or some other format. Tedd McHenry Surrey, BC do not archive ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:52:37 PM PST US From: Fiveonepw@aol.com Subject: RV-List: test do not archive ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:03:40 PM PST US From: "don wentz" Subject: RE: RV-List: RV6 ram air issues Ben, I have AFP in a setup with a 180 degree bend from a rear sump which puts the metering unit right under the sump facing forward. I have tried some straight ram air solutions, with mostly poor results. This is in an RV-6 with O-360. I=92m currently using an enclosure that connects directly to the std fwd air scoop and has a K&N cone filter pointing forward inside of it, attached to an extension on the front of the unit. It=92s working pretty well. I may be able to scare-up some photos of the installations if you want them. Also, I found that the unit ran far too rich with the ram air issues, requiring leaning at high power settings. Dw RV-6 950hrs _____ From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of n801bh@netzero.com Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2006 5:58 PM Subject: RV-List: RV6 ram air issues My hangar mate here in Jackson Hole Wy has a RV-6 with a 0-320, Airflow Perf injection and a Vetter crossflow exhaust. In testing the other day his idea was to remove the air filter to try to maximize the ram air effect to the intake. He removed the filter, took off on the carb heat source feeding the injector and at a few hundred feet up switched over the straight ram air. Low and behold the motor just about stopped so he quickly pulled the carb air source again and proceeded to climb up a few more thousand feet to play with it again. He tried all different fuel settings but the motor would never smooth out running just on the ram air alone. He called Vans and they suggested he reinstall the filter and just leave it that way. He then called Airflow Perf and the guy there stated he has heard of several guys that removed the filter without any hiccups. Our consensus is that the incoming air is so turbulant that it is not feeding the throat of the injector body properly. We are really looking for some feedback on others who have tried this similar trick.. The details are,,,, he is at 6600 MSL, the temp was 56f and he did most of the testing at 10,000 msl. Ok guys, anyone want to jump right up and give us some input,, please. Thanks in advance... do not archive Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com < --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List=========== =============sp; - NEat content now also available via the ======================= bsp;some info to the Matronics Email List&======================= =sp; - List&nbsnbsp; & --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List"http://www.matronics.com/Navi gat or?RV-List "http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com "http://wiki.matronics.com"http://wiki.matronics.com "http://www.matronics.com/contribution"http://www.matronics.com/contribut ion 10/12/2006 -- 10/12/2006 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:08:47 PM PST US From: "Tim Bryan" Subject: RE: RV-List: test Success Yeah it works, but boy is it quiet Do Not Archive Tim _____ From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fiveonepw@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 7:52 PM Subject: RV-List: test do not archive ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:22:10 PM PST US From: "Doug Fischer" Subject: RV-List: Wing skin oil-canning I just finished riveting on the top LH wing skins and I noticed one of the "squares" was indented and would "oil can" when pushed from the inside. The square is bounded by two ribs (the fourth and fifth from the tip), the forward spar, and the "J"stringer. It is the fourth bay inboard from the tip (RV-9). All other skin "squares" are tight/neutral. Any ideas (other than drilling out every rivet in the skin) to address this issue? I was thinking of drilling out the rivets around the square to allow the skin to average out between three squares and re-rivet. Just wanted to see if anyone else has run into this problem and worked out a solution. Other than this the skin is perfect (well, pretty good at least). Thanks in advance for the help! Doug Fischer Jenison, MI RV-9A Wings do not archive ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:42:01 PM PST US From: sarg314 Subject: Re: RV-List: Wing skin oil-canning --> RV-List message posted by: sarg314 Doug: How about rivetting a stiffener to the underside of the skin right across the middle of the square. A piece of that real light 0.025 "angle" that's used to stiffen the elevators and rudder would probably do it. An extra line of 5 or 6 rivets won't be noticed. Doug Fischer wrote: > I just finished riveting on the top LH wing skins and I noticed one of > the > "squares" was indented and would "oil can" when pushed from the inside. > The square is bounded by two ribs (the fourth and fifth from the tip), > the > forward spar, and the "J"stringer. It is the fourth bay inboard from the > tip (RV-9). All other skin "squares" are tight/neutral. Any ideas > (other > than drilling out every rivet in the skin) to address this issue? I was > thinking of drilling out the rivets around the square to allow the > skin to > average out between three squares and re-rivet. Just wanted to see if > anyone else has run into this problem and worked out a solution. Other > than this the skin is perfect (well, pretty good at least). Thanks in > advance for the help! -- Tom Sargent ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:10:20 PM PST US From: "Bob Collins" Subject: RE: RV-List: Wing skin oil-canning --> RV-List message posted by: "Bob Collins" Mine had oil canned a bit but once I had all the skins on it worked fine,'' Bob -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of sarg314 Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 10:41 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Wing skin oil-canning --> RV-List message posted by: sarg314 Doug: How about rivetting a stiffener to the underside of the skin right across the middle of the square. A piece of that real light 0.025 "angle" that's used to stiffen the elevators and rudder would probably do it. An extra line of 5 or 6 rivets won't be noticed. Doug Fischer wrote: > I just finished riveting on the top LH wing skins and I noticed one of > the "squares" was indented and would "oil can" when pushed from the > inside. > The square is bounded by two ribs (the fourth and fifth from the tip), > the forward spar, and the "J"stringer. It is the fourth bay inboard > from the tip (RV-9). All other skin "squares" are tight/neutral. Any > ideas (other than drilling out every rivet in the skin) to address > this issue? I was thinking of drilling out the rivets around the > square to allow the skin to average out between three squares and > re-rivet. Just wanted to see if anyone else has run into this problem > and worked out a solution. Other than this the skin is perfect (well, > pretty good at least). Thanks in advance for the help! -- Tom Sargent ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:40:54 PM PST US From: Vanremog@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Wing skin oil-canning In a message dated 10/17/2006 8:23:51 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, dfischer@iserv.net writes: I just finished riveting on the top LH wing skins and I noticed one of the "squares" was indented and would "oil can" when pushed from the inside. The square is bounded by two ribs (the fourth and fifth from the tip), the forward spar, and the "J"stringer. It is the fourth bay inboard from the tip (RV-9). All other skin "squares" are tight/neutral. Any ideas (other than drilling out every rivet in the skin) to address this issue? I was thinking of drilling out the rivets around the square to allow the skin to average out between three squares and re-rivet. Just wanted to see if anyone else has run into this problem and worked out a solution. Other than this the skin is perfect (well, pretty good at least). Thanks in advance for the help! ============================== IMO, this case screams out for a very light aluminum angle bonded to the underside of the skin using one of the 3M structural acrylic adhesive tapes others have discussed on this list in the past for attaching rudder and aileron stiffeners. GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A, C/S, Flying 813hrs, Silicon Valley, CA)