Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:51 AM - Fuel sensors (Ron Schreck)
2. 04:11 AM - Re: Fuel sensors (Dale Ensing)
3. 04:17 AM - Re: Odyssey style battery -- low cost (glen matejcek)
4. 06:00 AM - Re: Drilling B-Nuts (Rick Galati)
5. 07:15 AM - Re: Re: Drilling B-Nuts (Ralph E. Capen)
6. 07:49 AM - Re: Drilling B-Nuts (Jim Pleasants)
7. 03:43 PM - Re: Fuel sensors (Charles Reiche)
8. 06:23 PM - Sigma-Tek 4000B30 DG for sale (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
9. 07:29 PM - Can you identify this filter (Matt Jurotich)
10. 08:49 PM - Re: Fuel sensors (David Dalton)
Message 1
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David,
Your post brings up a subject which merits some discussion. I often
hear builders saying they want to do "limited aerobatics" so they are
installing this or that thingamajig on their RV. As delivered, the RV
(except the 9 and 10) is capable of many aerobatic maneuvers and it is a
joy to flop about with reckless abandon, knowing that it will eventually
come out upright with the pointy end going ahead of the tail. Generally
the "as delivered" RV is capable of most POSITIVE "G" maneuvers and this
gives it quite a long list of available aerobatic options. David, I'm
not picking on you, but just adding a flop tube in one of your fuel
tanks is not going to give you NEGATIVE "G" capability and thus expand
the range of aerobatic maneuvers.
A carburetor will starve your engine immediately at negative "G". Cost
of a fuel injection system: $3000+
After 15 to 30 seconds of negative "G" flight your oil pressure will go
to zero. Cost of inverted oil system: $1200+
If you have a standard constant speed prop, a momentary loss of oil
pressure (even possible with inverted oil system) can cause the prop to
go to fine pitch at high power setting and overspeed your engine.
Additional cost for an aerobatic constant speed prop: $1500+
Now, if you do spend $6000+ to truly make your RV "fully" aerobatic you
really should do something about that single lap belt and purchase a
parachute just for safety sake. (Also, remove any ADI (vacuum or
electric) with a mechanical ADI or you will eventually ruin the gyro
bearings.)
And now you are ready to turn that baby downside up, but the airfoil is
not symmetrical so you will really need to work hard to make it perform
inverted maneuvers, and did I mention how uncomfortable inverted flight
is on your body!
Bottom Line: Most RV's are capable of limited aerobatics when built
according to plans and they are a blast to fly. If you want more
performance, go buy an airplane that is purpose-made for aerobatics.
I bring all this up, not to discourage anybody, but to give those who
may be inclined to equip their RV for "limited" aerobatics something to
ponder before you spend the milk money on the next thingamajig. Flame
away. Nomex installed.
Ron "Smokey" Schreck
RV-8 "Miss Izzy"
Gold Hill Airpark, NC
Time: 10:21:24 PM PST US
From: "David Dalton" <ddalton536@gmail.com>
> I have a question for the more experienced builders out there
regarding fuel
>sensors. I just purchased a used wing kit for my -7. It came
with the
>float type fuel sensors. My question is, what would the
advantages or
>disadvantages of capacitive sensors over the floats? I intend
on having a
>fuel totalizer built into the engine monitor, and will probably
install a
>flop tube for limited aerobatics. Thanks in advance for your
advice.
>David Dalton
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel sensors |
David,
Advantage = No moving parts to wear and better accuracy over the
range. But, if you will have a fuel flow sensor/computer you will find
that the fuel gauges will become a reference only.
The mechanical sensors will do fine.
I have the capacitive sensors on one OBAM aircraft that has no fuel
flow computer and would recommend them in that case. But, have fuel flow
sensor on the 6A and it gives much better useful info.
Dale Ensing
----- Original Message -----
From: David Dalton
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2006 1:19 AM
Subject: RV-List: Fuel sensors
I have a question for the more experienced builders out there
regarding fuel sensors. I just purchased a used wing kit for my -7. It
came with the float type fuel sensors. My question is, what would the
advantages or disadvantages of capacative sensors over the floats? I
intend on having a fuel totalizer built into the engine monitor, and
will probably install a flop tube for limited aerobatics. Thanks in
advance for your advice.
Beer30?
David Dalton
Message 3
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| Subject: | RE: Odyssey style battery -- low cost |
--> RV-List message posted by: "glen matejcek" <aerobubba@earthlink.net>
Howdy Rich-
I got my no-name 17 AH AGM's from the local batteries plus outlet. They
also stocked the PC 680's there.
>Does anyone know if these low cost or real oddesy batteries are
>available locally, such as an auto supply or Radio Shack, in case you
>got stuck with a bad battery in the middle of a trip? One less spare to
>worry about!
>Rich Zeidman
>RV7
glen matejcek
aerobubba@earthlink.net
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Drilling B-Nuts |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Rick Galati" <rick6a@yahoo.com>
recapen(at)earthlink.net wrote:
> Any hints on an easy way to drill the B-Nuts........
Works with bolts AND nuts .http://www.wicksaircraft.com/catalog/product_detail.php/pid01~subid=2673/index.html
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=71315#71315
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Drilling B-Nuts |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen@earthlink.net>
Thanks Rick!
-----Original Message-----
>From: Rick Galati <rick6a@yahoo.com>
>Sent: Oct 31, 2006 8:59 AM
>To: rv-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: Re: Drilling B-Nuts
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Rick Galati" <rick6a@yahoo.com>
>
>
>recapen(at)earthlink.net wrote:
>> Any hints on an easy way to drill the B-Nuts........
>Works with bolts AND nuts .http://www.wicksaircraft.com/catalog/product_detail.php/pid01~subid=2673/index.html
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=71315#71315
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Drilling B-Nuts |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Pleasants" <jpleasants@bellsouth.net>
I did it freehand, also. 1/16 inch bits are cheap, and I broke at least
one.
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: <dfischer@iserv.net>
Sent: Monday, October 30, 2006 2:25 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Drilling B-Nuts
> --> RV-List message posted by: dfischer@iserv.net
>
> I cross-drilled without the jig (though I've bought one since). The soft
> aluminum makes it pretty easy. Just dimple the nut with your center
> punch, start the drill at an angle (so it doesn't slip) and rotate it as
> you drill to the correct angle to cross-drill the corner.
>
> Doug Fischer
> RV-9A Wings
>
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce@glasair.org>
> >
> > I have a jig that allows me to drill across a corner tip any nut.
> >
> > Bruce
> > www.glasair.org
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ralph E. Capen
> > Sent: Monday, October 30, 2006 12:44 PM
> > To: rv-list; RV7 Yahoo list
> > Subject: RV-List: Drilling B-Nuts
> >
> >
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen@earthlink.net>
> >
> > Fellow listers,
> >
> > Any hints on an easy way to drill the B-Nuts to comply with Vans fuel
> > pickup
> > bulletin?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Ralph Capen
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
10/26/2006
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel sensors |
MessageHow DARE you have the GALL to actually make sense!
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Ron Schreck
To: 'RV List'
Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2006 6:48 AM
Subject: RV-List: Fuel sensors
David,
Your post brings up a subject which merits some discussion. I often hear builders
saying they want to do "limited aerobatics" so they are installing this
or that thingamajig on their RV. As delivered, the RV (except the 9 and 10) is
capable of many aerobatic maneuvers and it is a joy to flop about with reckless
abandon, knowing that it will eventually come out upright with the pointy
end going ahead of the tail. Generally the "as delivered" RV is capable of most
POSITIVE "G" maneuvers and this gives it quite a long list of available aerobatic
options. David, I'm not picking on you, but just adding a flop tube in
one of your fuel tanks is not going to give you NEGATIVE "G" capability and thus
expand the range of aerobatic maneuvers.
A carburetor will starve your engine immediately at negative "G". Cost of a
fuel injection system: $3000+
After 15 to 30 seconds of negative "G" flight your oil pressure will go to zero.
Cost of inverted oil system: $1200+
If you have a standard constant speed prop, a momentary loss of oil pressure
(even possible with inverted oil system) can cause the prop to go to fine pitch
at high power setting and overspeed your engine. Additional cost for an aerobatic
constant speed prop: $1500+
Now, if you do spend $6000+ to truly make your RV "fully" aerobatic you really
should do something about that single lap belt and purchase a parachute just
for safety sake. (Also, remove any ADI (vacuum or electric) with a mechanical
ADI or you will eventually ruin the gyro bearings.)
And now you are ready to turn that baby downside up, but the airfoil is not symmetrical
so you will really need to work hard to make it perform inverted maneuvers,
and did I mention how uncomfortable inverted flight is on your body!
Bottom Line: Most RV's are capable of limited aerobatics when built according
to plans and they are a blast to fly. If you want more performance, go buy
an airplane that is purpose-made for aerobatics.
I bring all this up, not to discourage anybody, but to give those who may be
inclined to equip their RV for "limited" aerobatics something to ponder before
you spend the milk money on the next thingamajig. Flame away. Nomex installed.
Ron "Smokey" Schreck
RV-8 "Miss Izzy"
Gold Hill Airpark, NC
Time: 10:21:24 PM PST US
From: "David Dalton" <ddalton536@gmail.com>
> I have a question for the more experienced builders out there regarding
fuel
>sensors. I just purchased a used wing kit for my -7. It came with the
>float type fuel sensors. My question is, what would the advantages or
>disadvantages of capacitive sensors over the floats? I intend on having
a
>fuel totalizer built into the engine monitor, and will probably install
a
>flop tube for limited aerobatics. Thanks in advance for your advice.
>David Dalton
Message 8
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| Subject: | Sigma-Tek 4000B30 DG for sale |
Howdy Listers-
A buddy has upgraded a Sigma-Tek DG like this one:
http://gulfcoastavionics.com/detail.asp?id=4245
with a fancier model and has it for sale for $500 firm- it has 101 hours on
it and works fine.
If interested, please contact me off-list for details, fiveonepw@aol.com
Mark Phillips, Columbia TN - do not archive
Message 9
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| Subject: | Can you identify this filter |
The filter in the attached jpg is 1+15/16 inches tall, 1+1/2 inches
in diameter, the inlet "tit" is a little less than 7/16 in diameter
and a littler more than 1/4 tall. Bob Burk who is no longer with us
used this in a customized gascolater in an RV 6A. There is no
readable part number. If you can identify it, please let me know a
part number or just where it might be bought.
<mjurotich@hst.nasa.gov>
Thanks
Matthew M. Jurotich
e-mail mail to: <mjurotich@hst.nasa.gov>
phone : 301-286-5919
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel sensors |
Ron,
Thanks for the words of wisdom. You bring up some good points. I was
already planning on the CS prop to get the climb performance (I live in
Denver), I had considered and knew of the need for the inverted oil system
(to protect the engine and keep the belly clean) but did not know the cost.
I hadn't considered the CS prop's ability to maintain pitch, although the
Super Decathlon I flew had a CS prop, and seemed to do OK with negative G
stuff.
In any event, you have me thinking about this, and more research is
certainly in order. Thanks to everyone else who responded. I think I'll
stick with the float sensors and the fuel totalizer.
Keep on riviting,
DD
On 10/31/06, Ron Schreck <ronschreck@alltel.net> wrote:
>
> David,
>
> Your post brings up a subject which merits some discussion. I often hear
> builders saying they want to do "limited aerobatics" so they are installing
> this or that thingamajig on their RV. As delivered, the RV (except the 9
> and 10) is capable of many aerobatic maneuvers and it is a joy to flop about
> with reckless abandon, knowing that it will eventually come out upright with
> the pointy end going ahead of the tail. Generally the "as delivered" RV is
> capable of most POSITIVE "G" maneuvers and this gives it quite a long list
> of available aerobatic options. David, I'm not picking on you, but just
> adding a flop tube in one of your fuel tanks is not going to give you
> NEGATIVE "G" capability and thus expand the range of aerobatic maneuvers.
>
> A carburetor will starve your engine immediately at negative "G". Cost of
> a fuel injection system: $3000+
>
> After 15 to 30 seconds of negative "G" flight your oil pressure will go to
> zero. Cost of inverted oil system: $1200+
>
> If you have a standard constant speed prop, a momentary loss of oil
> pressure (even possible with inverted oil system) can cause the prop to go
> to fine pitch at high power setting and overspeed your engine. Additional
> cost for an aerobatic constant speed prop: $1500+
>
> Now, if you do spend $6000+ to truly make your RV "fully" aerobatic you
> really should do something about that single lap belt and purchase a
> parachute just for safety sake. (Also, remove any ADI (vacuum or electric)
> with a mechanical ADI or you will eventually ruin the gyro bearings.)
>
> And now you are ready to turn that baby downside up, but the airfoil is
> not symmetrical so you will really need to work hard to make it perform
> inverted maneuvers, and did I mention how uncomfortable inverted flight is
> on your body!
>
> Bottom Line: Most RV's are capable of limited aerobatics when built
> according to plans and they are a blast to fly. If you want more
> performance, go buy an airplane that is purpose-made for aerobatics.
>
> I bring all this up, not to discourage anybody, but to give those who may
> be inclined to equip their RV for "limited" aerobatics something to ponder
> before you spend the milk money on the next thingamajig. Flame away. Nomex
> installed.
>
> Ron "Smokey" Schreck
> RV-8 "Miss Izzy"
> Gold Hill Airpark, NC
>
>
> *Time: * *10:21:24 PM PST US*
> *From: * *"David Dalton" <ddalton536@gmail.com>*
>
> > I have a question for the more experienced builders out there
> regarding fuel
> >sensors. I just purchased a used wing kit for my -7. It came with
> the
> >float type fuel sensors. My question is, what would the
> advantages or
> >disadvantages of capacitive sensors over the floats? I intend on
> having a
> >fuel totalizer built into the engine monitor, and will probably
> install a
> >flop tube for limited aerobatics. Thanks in advance for your
> advice.
>
>
> >David Dalton
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
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