---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 11/09/06: 14 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:14 AM - MT Prop & Alum spinner (sjhdcl@kingston.net) 2. 07:03 AM - Re: Gross weight -- change to more OR less? (Paul Besing) 3. 07:05 AM - Re: MDRA rule change, gross weight increase (glen matejcek) 4. 07:57 AM - Re: Tods Canopies () 5. 08:01 AM - Re: Re: Flush Latch Source ? (carlos) 6. 09:22 AM - Re: Todd's Canopies (plennon105) 7. 11:02 AM - Re: MT Prop & Alum spinner (LessDragProd@aol.com) 8. 11:17 AM - Removing white plastic covering from aluminum (Finn Lassen) 9. 11:51 AM - Re: Removing white plastic covering from aluminum (vft@AOL.COM) 10. 12:39 PM - Re: Removing white plastic covering from aluminum (Chuck) 11. 01:38 PM - Travis Hamblen (IO-390) (William Gill) 12. 04:52 PM - Weathermeister (Jack Lockamy) 13. 05:43 PM - Re: Weathermeister (Dan Checkoway) 14. 07:43 PM - Re: Congrats (Frank Stringham) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:14:36 AM PST US Subject: RV-List: MT Prop & Alum spinner From: sjhdcl@kingston.net I have a 2 blade (MTV15B) MT Prop with the standard white spinner. Has anyone used a polished alum spinner with MT prop? Can't find one anywhere. Steve RV7A ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:03:20 AM PST US From: Paul Besing Subject: Re: RV-List: Gross weight -- change to more OR less? When I set my GW on my -6A I spoke with an unnamed person at Van's...Their response was something like this: "On the record, you should set your Max Gross at xxxx (can't remember, 1400 maybe?)" "Off the record, I personally know of many RV's flying around at 1700-1800 pounds with no problem...just keep it in CG, and don't fly aerobatics at those weights" So, like Mark said, don't exceed the CG...YOU are the manufacturer, you can set your GW wherever you like. I personally used 1650 I think which was a 200 pounds or so more. I have flown it at that, but the issue comes with an aft CG when you burn off fuel. Do what you like with the weight, but evaluate the scenarios carefully when burning off fuel, because RV's can get out of CG really easily if you exceed those weights by much after you burn off fuel. Paul Besing Mark Frederick wrote: Time: 11:16:31 PM PST US From: "Rob Prior (rv7)" Subject: Re: RV-List: MDRA rule change On 20:41:18 2006-11-07 "Jim Jewell" < jjewell@telus.net> wrote: > A month or two ago I registered my RV6-a with the MOT. The application > included a requested gross weight which I set at 1775 lb. >>What criteria did you use to arrive at this new gross weight? Did you do >>any structural analysis of the airframe to confirm that it will handle the >>increased gross weight? What will be your aerobatic gross weight? Are you >>increasing that as well? What analysis have you done to support those >>numbers? Has anyone done analysis to show that the RV-6 will operate >>safely at 1775 gross and CAR/FAR Part 23 limits? Come on -- lighten up! It's a 125LB increase! Van's has done the static testing to the limit of the wing structure, so there really isn't a reason to do that again. They say it is good for XGs at XXXX weight, and I believe them. If you want to fly at XXXX + XXX, then your G limits are reduced, and your maneuvering speed goes up. There is a bit more to it then this, but that's the Reader's Digest version. As an example, you can look in the C-172 POH and see that the ship is certified in 2 categories by using different weights and CG location limits; one category allows for higher G loading and a smaller CG range, but at lower weights, while the other limits the G with increased weight and an increase in the CG range. I'll bet your RV6 can be approved using 2 different loading schedules by using the C-172 POH as an example, along with the wing loading limits provided by Van's. I seem to recall that the RV4 specs call out a max aerobatic weight vs a MTOW, so that would suggest that Van already uses a schedule that more or less follows what Cessna uses. I will suggest that it is possible to load the ship so it is within the capabilities of the wing at a max of 2Gs, but the gear might not take the load. As an example, 1650 MTOW x 6G = 9900. So, if I load 'er up to 9900/2 or 4950LBS (GEEZ!), the wings will be within limits at 2Gs. At such weights you will need to consider the floor structure, but as far as I know, the whole ship is good for 6G at the factory spec'd weight...except for the gear, so that makes this an exercise that cannot actually be accomplished. So much for a non-stop flight to Hawaii! You'll have to stop at least once... ;-) Using the above calcs show that the 1775 lb ship will be good for 5.6G instead of 6G, and still be within the design limits of the wing. Most pilots would not have any problem staying within those limits. While the FAR 23 limits are a good design criteria to follow, the experimental world is not required to follow those criteria. Transport Canada CAN add licensing requirements for the pilot if the wing loading is above about 20 lbs/sq ft. I would not, however, exceed the CG limits set by Van's. > Will the onus be on me to go through a structural testing regime to > prove the airframe is up to the task. >>No offense intended, but if you haven't gone through the structural >>testing, or know of someone who has, or perhaps have the blessing in >>writing from Van's Aircraft, I would go so far as to say you are foolhardy >>to request the increased gross weight in the first place. Why not just >>request the book gross weight, and load it up with whatever you want to? >>It's no safer. Nor is it any more dangerous if you do some 3rd grade math -- see my statement above. When you load outside the manufacturer's spec'd MTOW, your insurance is, of course, null and void. And as far as I know, the 'manufacturer' is the builder. >>Please keep in mind that when building an RV-6 as per the plans, the kit >>manufacturer's engineering analysis limits the airframe to a specific gross >>weight. If you have made structural changes to the airframe to raise that >>gross weight, you are no longer building a Van's RV-6. You are building a >>Jim Jewell Mk. 1, and Transport Canada has every right to request your >>engineering justification for every structural piece on the aircraft. If >>you haven't made structural changes, you're taking a risk with yourself and >>your passengers. >>Many RV-6's have been built and registered at gross weights over the Van's >>limit. It doesn't make it safe. Nor does it make it immediately unsafe -- again, see above. Additionally, FAR 23 allows for a flight program to prove the strength of aircraft structures -- calculations are not the only method of proving structural abilities. I will also suggest that such MTOW increases have been used for quite some time, and we have not heard of pilots landing their planes with damage to the structure from such loading, so it could follow that such weight increases would be allowed under FAR 23....which does not apply anyway. But, if you have data to back up your statements, by all means we had better have a look at such. >>-Rob -- Cheers! Mark --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:05:06 AM PST US From: "glen matejcek" Subject: RV-List: RE: MDRA rule change, gross weight increase Troupe, Without any flaming or offense intended, the statement "If you want to fly at XXXX + XXX, then your G limits are reduced, and your maneuvering speed goes up." is half wrong and very dangerous. A wing is designed to support a particular limit load, in pounds of force. This force is generated at the critical angle of attack and at the maneuvering speed as published for MTOW. If you achieve the critical angle of attack at a speed greater than the MTOW Va, YOU WILL EXCEED THE MAX DESIGN LOAD FOR THE WING. I suspect that lapses of understanding such as this are precisely why Van's has been so vocal in their protests against design changes lately. It's much more practical than getting everybody a degree in aero. Please, folks, if you do not have a background in aero engineering, consult with someone who does before tinkering with such fundamental design elements. After all, we don't know what we don't know. Pax- glen matejcek aerobubba@earthlink.net ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:57:53 AM PST US From: Subject: RV-List: RE: Tods Canopies There does seem to be a problem with his index page. The menu page is below which list prices and canopy types. http://www.toddscanopies.com/tdmenu.htm Regards, Pat Lennon RV7 empenage --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:01:37 AM PST US From: carlos Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Flush Latch Source ? Bill Schlatterer wrote: > That's it exactly :-) Now if I can just find B&G Aviation Parts or at worst > the Cessna shop. > > Thanks Bill S > This might help also. Here is a pdf of a Camloc catalog from Fairchild Fastners for the KM610/KM680 series flush mounted panel latches. See page H-58. http://www.unirexinc.com/catalog/camloc_ram-h.pdf Don't know the cost though. Carlos RV-7A N174PP reserved -- Carlos Hernandez Structural Engineers, LLC 2111 E. Broadway Rd. - Suite 3 Tempe, AZ 85282 Phone: 480.968.8600 Fax: 480.968.8608 www.sec-engr.com CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE The information in this email may be confidential and/or privileged. This email is intended to be reviewed by only the individual or organization named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any review, dissemination or copying of this email and its attachments, if any, or the information contained herein is prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please immediately notify the sender by return email and delete this email from your system. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:22:48 AM PST US Subject: RV-List: Re: Todd's Canopies From: "plennon105" There does seem to be a problem with his index page. The menu page is below which list prices and canopy types. http://www.toddscanopies.com/tdmenu.htm Regards, Pat Lennon RV7 empenage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=73389#73389 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:02:29 AM PST US From: LessDragProd@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: MT Prop & Alum spinner MT Propeller has what they call a "Hi-Glo" finish for their kevlar/epoxy spinner. If you would like to have your spinner refinished, I can check into the cost and delivery time. It makes the spinner look like a polished aluminum spinner. I have a "Hi-Glo" spinner on my MTV-15 aluminum 2 blade MT Propeller, and it looks really nice. Regards, Jim Ayers Less Drag Products, Inc. FAA certified MT Propeller Repair Station # LDSR535X (805) 795-5377 In a message dated 11/09/2006 6:21:52 AM Pacific Standard Time, sjhdcl@kingston.net writes: --> RV-List message posted by: sjhdcl@kingston.net I have a 2 blade (MTV15B) MT Prop with the standard white spinner. Has anyone used a polished alum spinner with MT prop? Can't find one anywhere. Steve RV7A ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:17:20 AM PST US From: Finn Lassen Subject: RV-List: Removing white plastic covering from aluminum After spedning a couple of hours trying to remove the white plastic (with black backing/glue) from the rear wing spar channel of my old RV-4 kit, I'm beginning to question the wisdom of removing it at all. Yes, I checked the archive and the hairdryer/hetgun helps, but the material is so old or fragile that it beaks. I can remove maybe an inch before it breaks, then have to start again with a plastic spartula to get an edge to hold onto to pull, etc. Anybody see any liability in leaving it on? Finn ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:51:06 AM PST US Subject: Re: RV-List: Removing white plastic covering from aluminum From: vft@AOL.COM Cover the affected area with old towels and soak them with mineral spirits. You may need to soak them for a few hours but this worked very well on my F1 project. Danny Melnik F1 #25 Melbourne (FL) Rocket Factory -----Original Message----- From: finn.lassen@verizon.net Sent: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 1:06 PM Subject: RV-List: Removing white plastic covering from aluminum After spedning a couple of hours trying to remove the white plastic (with black backing/glue) from the rear wing spar channel of my old RV-4 kit, I'm beginning to question the wisdom of removing it at all. Yes, I checked the archive and the hairdryer/hetgun helps, but the material is so old or fragile that it beaks. I can remove maybe an inch before it breaks, then have to start again with a plastic spartula to get an edge to hold onto to pull, etc. Anybody see any liability in leaving it on? Finn ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 12:39:17 PM PST US From: Chuck Subject: Re: RV-List: Removing white plastic covering from aluminum WEIGHT penalty, and possibly could enhance moistures access, hence corrosion. Finn Lassen wrote: After spedning a couple of hours trying to remove the white plastic (with black backing/glue) from the rear wing spar channel of my old RV-4 kit, I'm beginning to question the wisdom of removing it at all. Yes, I checked the archive and the hairdryer/hetgun helps, but the material is so old or fragile that it beaks. I can remove maybe an inch before it breaks, then have to start again with a plastic spartula to get an edge to hold onto to pull, etc. Anybody see any liability in leaving it on? Finn --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:38:15 PM PST US From: "William Gill" Subject: RV-List: Travis Hamblen (IO-390) Travis, Please contact me off-list if you get this message. I would like to discuss your IO-390 installation if possible. Thanks. Best regards, Bill Gill RV-7 FWF wgill10@comcast.net do not archive ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 04:52:47 PM PST US From: Jack Lockamy Subject: RV-List: Weathermeister For those who aren't aware... there is an OUTSTANDING new tool available for aviation weather info. Check out www.weathermeister.com This aviation weather website was developed and is maintained by Dan Checkoway (aka 'Sharpie') who is a SoCAL RV-7 builder/formation pilot and frequent contributor to Kitplanes Magazine. Many of you have probably visited his RV-7 website.... www.rvproject.com. Hands down the best RV builder website on the internet. Dan has created a MASTERPIECE!!! Weathermeister.com is a FREE web-based tool that will absolutely change the way you currently get your weather infomation when flying locally or coast-to-coast in your RV. After experiencing www.weathermeister.com, you will NEVER go back to DUATS. Weathermeister.com displays numerous weather charts, winds aloft info, best economy and best speed altitudes to fly based on up-to-the-minute winds aloft data, TFRs, forecast weather conditions at your destination and airports under your flight path, and much, much more. If you sign up for the premium service ($4.95 monthly or $49.95 yearly...), you can store your own aircraft info and frequently flown cross-country routes that will accurately give you fuel burn, ETE, etc. The premium service is an unbelievable value once you see how powerful, and easy to use the tools available really are. I encourage everyone to visit www.weathermeister.com., evaluate it's awesome capabilities, and sign-up for the premium service to keep the site alive! (NOTE: The Premium service provides a LOT more info than the free site.) As a government employee, I still don't understand how a fellow like Dan Checkoway can single-handedly provide such a useful tool for evaluating flight weather conditions when the entire government (read FAA...) can not provide readable or barely understandable weather info to us. Weathermeister.com displays it all so clearly. If you haven't checked out www.weathermeister.com, you owe it to yourself to try it. I use it EVERY time I intend to fly... Tell a friend about the site. They WILL thank you!!! Jack Lockamy RV-7A N174JL 250 hrs. Camarillo, CA www.jacklockamy.com NOTE: Although Dan C. is a friend of mine, he is not aware of this posting nor did he endorse this message. I am in no way affiliated with www.weathermeister.com. I'm just a a VERY grateful user that appreciates the weather tool Dan has created and wanted to share it with my fellow RV builders/pilots who may not have discovered it yet. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 05:43:13 PM PST US From: "Dan Checkoway" Subject: Re: RV-List: Weathermeister Thanks for the plug, Jack! Sounds like it's been treating you well on all those trips out to NM. More customization features in the works... do not archive )_( Dan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jack Lockamy" Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 4:51 PM Subject: RV-List: Weathermeister > > For those who aren't aware... there is an OUTSTANDING new tool available > for aviation weather info. Check out www.weathermeister.com > > This aviation weather website was developed and is maintained by Dan > Checkoway (aka 'Sharpie') who is a SoCAL RV-7 builder/formation pilot and > frequent contributor to Kitplanes Magazine. Many of you have probably > visited his RV-7 website.... www.rvproject.com. Hands down the best RV > builder website on the internet. > > Dan has created a MASTERPIECE!!! Weathermeister.com is a FREE web-based > tool that will absolutely change the way you currently get your weather > infomation when flying locally or coast-to-coast in your RV. After > experiencing www.weathermeister.com, you will NEVER go back to DUATS. > > Weathermeister.com displays numerous weather charts, winds aloft info, > best economy and best speed altitudes to fly based on up-to-the-minute > winds aloft data, TFRs, forecast weather conditions at your destination > and airports under your flight path, and much, much more. > > If you sign up for the premium service ($4.95 monthly or $49.95 > yearly...), you can store your own aircraft info and frequently flown > cross-country routes that will accurately give you fuel burn, ETE, etc. > The premium service is an unbelievable value once you see how powerful, > and easy to use the tools available really are. I encourage everyone to > visit www.weathermeister.com., evaluate it's awesome capabilities, and > sign-up for the premium service to keep the site alive! (NOTE: The > Premium service provides a LOT more info than the free site.) > > As a government employee, I still don't understand how a fellow like Dan > Checkoway can single-handedly provide such a useful tool for evaluating > flight weather conditions when the entire government (read FAA...) can not > provide readable or barely understandable weather info to us. > Weathermeister.com displays it all so clearly. > > If you haven't checked out www.weathermeister.com, you owe it to yourself > to try it. I use it EVERY time I intend to fly... > > Tell a friend about the site. They WILL thank you!!! > > Jack Lockamy > RV-7A N174JL 250 hrs. > Camarillo, CA > www.jacklockamy.com > > NOTE: Although Dan C. is a friend of mine, he is not aware of this > posting nor did he endorse this message. I am in no way affiliated with > www.weathermeister.com. I'm just a a VERY grateful user that appreciates > the weather tool Dan has created and wanted to share it with my fellow RV > builders/pilots who may not have discovered it yet. > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:43:52 PM PST US From: "Frank Stringham" Subject: Re: RV-List: Congrats Dan Congrats on the Sport Aviation plug on the Sport Air workshop. Good Luck! Frank @ SGU and SLC _________________________________________________________________ All-in-one security and maintenance for your PC. Get a free 90-day trial!