Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:00 AM - Re: Re: Fuel Gauges (Trevor)
2. 04:24 AM - Re: Still Grinning - First flight of N881GP (Charles Rowbotham)
3. 07:54 AM - Re: Spurious Floscan pulses (Charles Kaluza)
4. 09:18 AM - Jeppesen Binder - for sale (Ernie & Margo)
5. 09:18 AM - Re: Spurious Floscan pulses (Leland Collins)
6. 10:05 AM - Re: Re: Spurious Floscan pulses (Sam Buchanan)
7. 10:22 AM - Re: Jeppesen Binder - for sale (Dave)
8. 10:40 AM - Re: Re: Spurious Floscan pulses (Ron Lee)
9. 11:38 AM - Re: Re: Spurious Floscan pulses (Dale Ensing)
10. 12:10 PM - Re: Re: Spurious Floscan pulses (Doug Gray)
11. 01:08 PM - Re: Re: Spurious Floscan pulses (Sam Buchanan)
12. 03:52 PM - Re: Jeppesen Binder - for sale (Ken Howell)
13. 08:01 PM - Re: Re: Spurious Floscan pulses (linn Walters)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Fuel Gauges |
I have a problem with Fuel gauges that under-read on my -6. They were
working perfectly for 6 years then one day I noticed that first the
right tank gauge and about two months later, the left started to
under-read. With tanks full they barely indicate above 1/2 and when
empty go well below the "0" On power down the one gauge whips back to
below "0" and parks on the stop while the other one winds down more
leisurely but also comes to rest well below the "0". They are the old
type Ispro gauges with float sender units. They seem to indicate fuel
decreasing as it is burnt off but it is almost as if the needles need to
be "cranked" up
I have checked the earthing points and wiring but short of pulling the
tanks off I am at a loss of what to do. Is there a resistance check one
can do and if so how does one go about it? Has anyone had this problem?
Any advice in welcome
Trevor D
Message 2
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| Subject: | Still Grinning - First flight of N881GP |
Greg,
CONGRATULATIONS AND WELL DONE !!!
Chuck & Dave Rowbotham
RV-8A
>From: "Puckett, Gregory [DENTK]" <Greg.Puckett@united.com>
>To: "Puckett, Gregory [DENTK]" <Greg.Puckett@united.com>,
><rv-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RV-List: Still Grinning - First flight of N881GP
>Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2006 07:34:07 -0700
>
>Listers,
>
>After 10 years of building, I flew my RV-8 sn 80081 for the first time
>yesterday.
>
>Greg Puckett (flying, wooo hoooo!!!!)
>Elizabeth, CO
>
_________________________________________________________________
Get free, personalized commercial-free online radio with MSN Radio powered
by Pandora http://radio.msn.com/?icid=T002MSN03A07001
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Spurious Floscan pulses |
We have had the same issue on our 6 A. Made calibration of the sender
more difficult but not a factor in cross-country flights. I was
wondering if the carburetor float and bowl were part of the issue?
Kaluza
144KL
Message 4
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| Subject: | Jeppesen Binder - for sale |
Please excuse the crass advertisement. I would like to offer this to an
RV-Lister before I go to e-bay.
I have a Jeppesen Binder that has never been used. It is the deluxe
cowhide leather binder with all stainless hardware and hinges.
It also has the "stay open bar" which allows it to stay open on your lap
while you fly. It also has a lever for inserting/removing paper
one-handed.
I will fill it with about 2" of 7-hole paper - - - JEPP flight plans,
Pilot Notes, computer paper, etc.
See the full page 661 in the new ACS catalogue for all of the other
supplies. The binder alone is ACS# 13-21738 ($87.40)
How about $50 (US or Cdn). I will prepay surface-ship anywhere (US or
Cdn).
As I prepare for the trip to the airport I realize that my mission is
really daytime, VFR cross country retiree who's in no hurry - and I
think that I like it this way. Let me know if you're interested.
Reply to me directly. DO NOT ARCHIVE
Ernest Kells C-GKEL
Vans RV-9A LYC O-235-N2C
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Spurious Floscan pulses |
Kaluza, my monitor shows an increased flow rate when the electric fuel pump is
rattling away, and it shows fluctuations in reading of a gallon/hour. As you suggest,
he fluctuations are likely due to variations in carburetor float level.
I would like to minimize the flow rate increase from the Facet pump.
Leland
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=79880#79880
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Spurious Floscan pulses |
Leland Collins wrote:
> <federigo@pacbell.net>
>
> Kaluza, my monitor shows an increased flow rate when the electric
> fuel pump is rattling away, and it shows fluctuations in reading of a
> gallon/hour. As you suggest, he fluctuations are likely due to
> variations in carburetor float level. I would like to minimize the
> flow rate increase from the Facet pump. Leland
The explanation I have heard for the flow rate "increase" while the pump
is running involves the design of the flow sensor. It uses an optical
sensor and rotating vanes in order to send pulses to the flowmeter which
then are counted so flow rate can be calculated. When the pump is
running, it causes the fuel flow to alternate in a forward and backward
motion which causes the sensor to generate extra pulses. I assume a
rotary pump would not cause these errors but those of us with the Facet
diaphragm pump see the error.
I don't see how the fuel level in the carb would vary provided the carb
is receiving adequate flow and the float and needle are functioning
properly.
Sam Buchanan
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Jeppesen Binder - for sale |
Mr. Kells,
My email program stripped your email address off, so I need to reply to
the list. Sorry. Do not archive.
I would like your jepp binder if it is still available. email me off the
list. dave@coltnet.net
Thanks
Dave
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Spurious Floscan pulses |
>Kaluza, my monitor shows an increased flow rate when the electric fuel
>pump is rattling away, and it shows fluctuations in reading of a
>gallon/hour. As you suggest, he fluctuations are likely due to variations
>in carburetor float level. I would like to minimize the flow rate increase
>from the Facet pump.
>Leland
Don't worry about it. The electric boost pump is only on a short time (a
few minutes).
When I fill up and the amount is within a gallon or less of what the fuel
totalizer
indicates, it is a non-issue. Just calibrate the sensor count over
several fillups
and you will be fine.
Ron Lee
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Spurious Floscan pulses |
Sam,
Wouldn't the fuel have to be compressible to get a flow alternating between
forward and backward thru the flow sensor when the pump is running? This, of
course, is assuming (as you pointed out) the carburetor float valve is doing
its job so that any head of air in the carb bowl is not being compressed.
Dale Ensing
do not archive
>> Kaluza, my monitor shows an increased flow rate when the electric
>> fuel pump is rattling away, and it shows fluctuations in reading of a
>> gallon/hour. As you suggest, he fluctuations are likely due to
>> variations in carburetor float level. I would like to minimize the
>> flow rate increase from the Facet pump. Leland
>
>
> The explanation I have heard for the flow rate "increase" while the pump
> is running involves the design of the flow sensor. It uses an optical
> sensor and rotating vanes in order to send pulses to the flowmeter which
> then are counted so flow rate can be calculated. When the pump is running,
> it causes the fuel flow to alternate in a forward and backward motion
> which causes the sensor to generate extra pulses. I assume a rotary pump
> would not cause these errors but those of us with the Facet diaphragm pump
> see the error.
>
> I don't see how the fuel level in the carb would vary provided the carb is
> receiving adequate flow and the float and needle are functioning properly.
>
> Sam Buchanan
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Spurious Floscan pulses |
Does the mechanical fuel pump have a spring loaded diaphragm to move the
fuel? If so perhaps the is allowing a small fluid flow with the Facet
pump pulses.
Does the flow sensor have a bi-phase electrical output (ie two outputs
with 90 degree phase shift)? If it does then some extra logic could be
employed to subtract rather than add the reverse flow.
Doug
On Thu, 2006-12-07 at 14:35 -0500, Dale Ensing wrote:
>
> Sam,
> Wouldn't the fuel have to be compressible to get a flow alternating between
> forward and backward thru the flow sensor when the pump is running? This, of
> course, is assuming (as you pointed out) the carburetor float valve is doing
> its job so that any head of air in the carb bowl is not being compressed.
> Dale Ensing
> do not archive
>
>
> >> Kaluza, my monitor shows an increased flow rate when the electric
> >> fuel pump is rattling away, and it shows fluctuations in reading of a
> >> gallon/hour. As you suggest, he fluctuations are likely due to
> >> variations in carburetor float level. I would like to minimize the
> >> flow rate increase from the Facet pump. Leland
> >
> >
> > The explanation I have heard for the flow rate "increase" while the pump
> > is running involves the design of the flow sensor. It uses an optical
> > sensor and rotating vanes in order to send pulses to the flowmeter which
> > then are counted so flow rate can be calculated. When the pump is running,
> > it causes the fuel flow to alternate in a forward and backward motion
> > which causes the sensor to generate extra pulses. I assume a rotary pump
> > would not cause these errors but those of us with the Facet diaphragm pump
> > see the error.
> >
> > I don't see how the fuel level in the carb would vary provided the carb is
> > receiving adequate flow and the float and needle are functioning properly.
> >
> > Sam Buchanan
>
>
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Spurious Floscan pulses |
Dale, you make a good point about the lack of compressibility of the
fuel, but maybe Doug has hit on the reason for the less than consistent
flow rate indication.
Seems I heard the background info on this matter from RMI, the
manufacturer of the uMonitor in my plane. If I recall the setup
correctly, my monitor sees ~2900 pulses per gallon which is ~6.5 pulses
per second at cruise. If the pump is inducing a couple of pulses per
second, there is our error.
However, all of this is pretty academic since it has practically no
real-world impact on fuel management. Since the pump only runs during
takeoff, landing, and tank change, it has minimal impact on hourly fuel
calculations and reduces this whole exercise to the realm of "merely
curious". :-)
Sam Buchanan
=======================
Doug Gray wrote:
>
> Does the mechanical fuel pump have a spring loaded diaphragm to move the
> fuel? If so perhaps the is allowing a small fluid flow with the Facet
> pump pulses.
>
> Does the flow sensor have a bi-phase electrical output (ie two outputs
> with 90 degree phase shift)? If it does then some extra logic could be
> employed to subtract rather than add the reverse flow.
>
> Doug
>
> On Thu, 2006-12-07 at 14:35 -0500, Dale Ensing wrote:
>>
>> Sam,
>> Wouldn't the fuel have to be compressible to get a flow alternating between
>> forward and backward thru the flow sensor when the pump is running? This, of
>> course, is assuming (as you pointed out) the carburetor float valve is doing
>> its job so that any head of air in the carb bowl is not being compressed.
>> Dale Ensing
>>> The explanation I have heard for the flow rate "increase" while the pump
>>> is running involves the design of the flow sensor. It uses an optical
>>> sensor and rotating vanes in order to send pulses to the flowmeter which
>>> then are counted so flow rate can be calculated. When the pump is running,
>>> it causes the fuel flow to alternate in a forward and backward motion
>>> which causes the sensor to generate extra pulses. I assume a rotary pump
>>> would not cause these errors but those of us with the Facet diaphragm pump
>>> see the error.
>>>
>>> I don't see how the fuel level in the carb would vary provided the carb is
>>> receiving adequate flow and the float and needle are functioning properly.
>>>
>>> Sam Buchanan
Message 12
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| Subject: | Jeppesen Binder - for sale |
After reading this it occurred to me that there might be RV'ers out
there
who could make use of 4 leather Jeppesen binders that I have had sitting
around for the last 15 years (I tend not to throw things away). I got
tired
of doing revisions and now use USG FIP charts. You pay the postage and
they're yours. First come, first served. Reply directly.
Cheers, Ken
Cfi1513840@comcast.net
RV-7 Wings (still)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ernie & Margo
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 12:16 PM
Subject: RV-List: Jeppesen Binder - for sale
Please excuse the crass advertisement. I would like to offer this to an
RV-Lister before I go to e-bay.
I have a Jeppesen Binder that has never been used. It is the deluxe
cowhide
leather binder with all stainless hardware and hinges.
It also has the "stay open bar" which allows it to stay open on your lap
while you fly. It also has a lever for inserting/removing paper
one-handed.
I will fill it with about 2" of 7-hole paper - - - JEPP flight plans,
Pilot
Notes, computer paper, etc.
See the full page 661 in the new ACS catalogue for all of the other
supplies. The binder alone is ACS# 13-21738 ($87.40)
How about $50 (US or Cdn). I will prepay surface-ship anywhere (US or
Cdn).
As I prepare for the trip to the airport I realize that my mission is
really
daytime, VFR cross country retiree who's in no hurry - and I think that
I
like it this way. Let me know if you're interested.
Reply to me directly. DO NOT ARCHIVE
Ernest Kells C-GKEL
Vans RV-9A LYC O-235-N2C
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Spurious Floscan pulses |
Not being knowledgeable about the specific flow sensor, let me comment
generally. The auto units I'm familiar with use a ball in racetrack to
measure fuel flow. The ball will come between a lamp and photocell,
creating a pulse each revolution round the racetrack. This is an
electrical pulse. The fuel pump, on the other hand, will create a
pressure pulse ......causing variations in the fuel flow ..... but not
directly measureable by the photocell since the pulse is of short
duration. However, if the pulse was high enough and the ball in the
right position under the photocell, it could move forward from under the
photocell on the pressure side (creating the pulse), and flow back under
the photocell (pressure decrease) to create an extra pulse. The timing
would have to be just right in this scenario. I may be totally off base
here, but it's the only way to account for extra pulses caused by the pump.
Linn
do not archive
Sam Buchanan wrote:
>
> Dale, you make a good point about the lack of compressibility of the
> fuel, but maybe Doug has hit on the reason for the less than
> consistent flow rate indication.
>
> Seems I heard the background info on this matter from RMI, the
> manufacturer of the uMonitor in my plane. If I recall the setup
> correctly, my monitor sees ~2900 pulses per gallon which is ~6.5
> pulses per second at cruise. If the pump is inducing a couple of
> pulses per second, there is our error.
>
> However, all of this is pretty academic since it has practically no
> real-world impact on fuel management. Since the pump only runs during
> takeoff, landing, and tank change, it has minimal impact on hourly
> fuel calculations and reduces this whole exercise to the realm of
> "merely curious". :-)
>
> Sam Buchanan
>
> =======================
>
> Doug Gray wrote:
>
>>
>> Does the mechanical fuel pump have a spring loaded diaphragm to move the
>> fuel? If so perhaps the is allowing a small fluid flow with the Facet
>> pump pulses.
>>
>> Does the flow sensor have a bi-phase electrical output (ie two outputs
>> with 90 degree phase shift)? If it does then some extra logic could be
>> employed to subtract rather than add the reverse flow.
>>
>> Doug
>>
>> On Thu, 2006-12-07 at 14:35 -0500, Dale Ensing wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Sam,
>>> Wouldn't the fuel have to be compressible to get a flow alternating
>>> between forward and backward thru the flow sensor when the pump is
>>> running? This, of course, is assuming (as you pointed out) the
>>> carburetor float valve is doing its job so that any head of air in
>>> the carb bowl is not being compressed.
>>> Dale Ensing
>>
>
>>>> The explanation I have heard for the flow rate "increase" while the
>>>> pump is running involves the design of the flow sensor. It uses an
>>>> optical sensor and rotating vanes in order to send pulses to the
>>>> flowmeter which then are counted so flow rate can be calculated.
>>>> When the pump is running, it causes the fuel flow to alternate in a
>>>> forward and backward motion which causes the sensor to generate
>>>> extra pulses. I assume a rotary pump would not cause these errors
>>>> but those of us with the Facet diaphragm pump see the error.
>>>>
>>>> I don't see how the fuel level in the carb would vary provided the
>>>> carb is receiving adequate flow and the float and needle are
>>>> functioning properly.
>>>>
>>>> Sam Buchanan
>>>
>
>
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