---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 12/30/06: 34 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:13 AM - Re: Riveting curved skin surface (LarryRobertHelming) 2. 05:15 AM - Re: Kitplanes attack (Chuck Jensen) 3. 06:31 AM - Re: Re: SNF Changes (n801bh@netzero.com) 4. 07:08 AM - Re: Kitplanes attack (Bill VonDane) 5. 07:51 AM - Re: Fuel Injection Line Run (Neil) 6. 09:46 AM - Re: Riveting curved skin surface (wskimike) 7. 10:31 AM - Re: Kitplanes attack (Paul Besing) 8. 10:32 AM - Vacuum pump fittings (BillRVSIX@aol.com) 9. 10:39 AM - Roll Servo Installation (Bob Perkinson) 10. 11:17 AM - Vacuum pump fittings (James H Nelson) 11. 11:42 AM - RV-13 ?? (Richard Reynolds) 12. 12:11 PM - Re: Riveting curved skin surface (Greg Papendick) 13. 12:22 PM - Re: Kitplanes attack (Rob Prior) 14. 02:03 PM - Re: Kitplanes attack (Tedd McHenry) 15. 03:46 PM - Re: Riveting curved skin surface (LarryRobertHelming) 16. 04:58 PM - Re: registration results (Robin Marks) 17. 05:17 PM - Re: registration results (Paul Rice) 18. 05:25 PM - Re: registration results (Terry Watson) 19. 05:54 PM - Re: Firewall Bend (MLWynn@aol.com) 20. 06:09 PM - Re: registration results (RV Builder (Michael Sausen)) 21. 06:22 PM - Re: Re: SNF Changes (dick martin) 22. 06:25 PM - Re: Re: SNF Changes (dick martin) 23. 06:31 PM - Re: Riveting curved skin surface (Greg Papendick) 24. 06:33 PM - Re: registration results (Vanremog@aol.com) 25. 06:37 PM - Re: Vacuum pump fittings (Vanremog@aol.com) 26. 06:40 PM - Re: Re: SNF Changes (Ron Lee) 27. 07:18 PM - Re: Re: SNF Changes (Fiveonepw@aol.com) 28. 07:18 PM - Re: Riveting curved skin surface (David Maib) 29. 07:26 PM - Re: [RV Builders] Superior Cylinder Recall (Bobby Hester) 30. 07:27 PM - Re: [RV Builders] Superior Cylinder Recall (Bobby Hester) 31. 07:29 PM - Re: Kitplanes attack (Paul Besing) 32. 08:32 PM - RV-9 Wings Needed (Paul A. Barker) 33. 08:50 PM - Re: Riveting curved skin surface (Steve Eberhart) 34. 10:11 PM - Re: Fuel tank sender gasket (Dave & Brenda Emond) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:13:08 AM PST US From: "LarryRobertHelming" Subject: Re: RV-List: Riveting curved skin surface David, when possible, rivet using the back rivet tool rather than the flush tool. I know you cannot back rivet them all however. The key to a perfect rivet is to hold the rivet gun head on the rivet perfectly square and have the bucker who is on the other side maintain just enough pressure to keep the bucking bar on the shop side of the rivet so the rivet is not pushed out while bucking. When back riveting the bucker must keep the bar perfectly square to the rivet with sufficient pressure to not get pushed out of the hole by the riveter. Do not be afraid of drilling out bad rivets if they truly deserve it, but consider using a rivet shaver or small file or roto sander to gently remove the high spots. You will want the high spots and high edges eliminated when you go to painting and wet sanding if you expect a good even paint job. Are you sure you have properly dimpled the problem areas? Also, when riveting to be sure the rivet will sit down fully in the hole before putting the gun to it. If not, use a gently turn or three with a countersinking tool over the dimpled hole. Best wishes, Larry in Indiana ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 8:45 PM Subject: RV-List: Riveting curved skin surface > > We are having some difficulty riveting the curved area of the side skin > where it meets the belly skin on the RV-10 tailcone. We have too many > rivet heads that are sitting "proud" and will have to be drilled out. > Looking for any tips or techniques. > > -------- > David Maib > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=84383#84383 > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:15:33 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV-List: Kitplanes attack From: "Chuck Jensen" I was unaware that Belvoir published all those magazines as well as Kit Planes. I've lined their pockets more than a little over the years. One habit of this publisher that is pretty annoying is the subscription renewal solicitation. Even after entering a 2-year renewal, within a few months, one starts receiving "oh, no, hurry, your subscription is about to expire, renew now before you go to hell", or something to that effect. It's seems obvious that Belvoir is primarily interested in collecting subscriptions and keeping your money. If I responded to all of the renewal requests, I'd be paid up well into the next decade and beyond. This seems quite intentional and is, at best, a pretty dodgy practice. Illegal, no, but it doesn't climb very high on the business ethics pole either. Given this practice, which I categorize as less than sterling, it does make me wonder about their intent with Barry's data list. Did they just misunderstand Barry's intent, were they being aggressive or were they being something else. However, one is inclined to give Belvoir the benefit of some doubt, based on Stein's assuranced that these are good people, but so far, I count two strikes against them. Let's see how they settle this matter with Barry--I'll let that be the tie breaker in my mind. Chuck Jensen Do Not Archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 10:20 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Kitplanes attack Keep in mind that Avweb is now owned and operated by Belvoir, partly because the creators of Avweb were threatened by the aviation litigation attorney Allen Wolk and couldn't afford to fight. Perhaps a bunch of letters of complaint to the other Belvoir publications, such as Av Consumer, Lt Plane Maintenance, IFR, etc and discontinuing those publications might get their attention. Do NOT archive ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:31:27 AM PST US From: "n801bh@netzero.com" Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: SNF Changes This is exactly why I am getting fed up with the EAA. They have lost tou ch with reality and safety and are looking for the bucks, to hell with c ommon sense is their motto now. Thanks to Jeff and all the unpaid worke rs at OSH who do a GREAT job in spite of the high command.. do not archive Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com -- Jeff Point wrote: LarryRobertHelming wrote: > Talking about parking tail to nose and nose to tail, they started > doing this at OSH last year when I arrived. Someone got it changed in > quick order within 30 minutes. I was there and did not like the > arrangement but was happy to move SunSeeker to a new roll and have the > lines uniform. I think it is better for spectators and owners. Larry > in Indiana Larry, I'm the guy in charge of RV parking, and I can give you some insight into why this was done and why it was changed. When it comes to RV parking, we have the problem every year of putting more planes into the same size space. We've been telling EAA for years that we need more space, but what we get is never enough. Anyway, this year someone higher than me in the food chain had the brain child to tail-in the parking rows. I told them why it was a bad idea and why it wouldn't work. He told us to do it anyway. So... what you saw on Saturday morning was the result. We weren't any more happy about it than anyone else (my RV-6 was right in there tailed in with everyone else.) We tried our best to be good soldiers and make it work, but as soon as arrivals started, it became clear that it just wasn't going to work. Pilots were on the verge of mutiny. I decided to re-mark all the parking rows and move everyone into single file, as we've done for years. It was a lot of work for about an hour, but we got the cones and markers moved, and got everyone into proper rows, thankfully before it got too busy. When my boss found out he was less than thrilled, but I think we made him understand. I suspect that the specter of tailing in might raise it's ugly head again this year, but we've told them in no uncertain terms that we will never try that again. So, if you see RVs tailed in next year, it means that I have been fired and replaced, so don't blame me. ;) Jeff Point do not archive > * > * ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== ===========

This is exactly why I am getting fed up with the EAA. They have lost touch with reality and safety and are looking for the bucks, to he ll with common sense is their motto now.  Thanks to Jeff and all th e unpaid workers at OSH who do a GREAT job in spite of the high command. .

do not archive


Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair .com

-- Jeff Point <jpoint@mindspring.com>&n bsp;wrote:
--> RV-List message posted by:  ;Jeff Point <jpoint@mindspring.com>

LarryRobertHe lming wrote:
> Talking about parking tail  to nose and nose to tail, they  started 
> doing this at OSH last&nb sp;year when I arrived.  Someone got  it changed in 
> quick order within& nbsp;30 minutes.  I was there and did  not like the 
> arrangement but&nbs p;was happy to move SunSeeker to a ne w roll and have the 
> lines un iform.  I think it is better for  ;spectators and owners.  Larry 
> in  Indiana
Larry,
I'm the guy in charge&nbs p;of RV parking, and I can give you&n bsp;some insight 
into why this was don e and why it was changed.  When  it comes to RV 
parking, we have t he problem every year of putting more  ;planes into the 
same size space. &nbs p;We've been telling EAA for years that&nb sp;we need more 
space, but what we&nbs p;get is never enough.  Anyway, this  year someone 
higher than me in the&nbs p;food chain had the brain child to t ail-in the 
parking rows.  I told  them why it was a bad idea and w hy it wouldn't 
work.  He told us& nbsp;to do it anyway.

So... what you&nbs p;saw on Saturday morning was the result.& nbsp; We weren't any 
more happy about& nbsp;it than anyone else (my RV-6 was  ;right in there tailed 
in with everyon e else.)  We tried our best to b e good soldiers and make 
it work,  ;but as soon as arrivals started, it  became clear that it just 
wasn't going  to work.  Pilots were on the ve rge of mutiny.  I decided to 
re-m ark all the parking rows and move eve ryone into single file, as 
we've done& nbsp;for years.  It was a lot of  ;work for about an hour, but we 
g ot the cones and markers moved, and g ot everyone into proper rows, 
thankfully&nb sp;before it got too busy.

When my  boss found out he was less than thril led, but I think we made 
him unde rstand.  I suspect that the specter o f tailing in might raise 
it's ugly&nbs p;head again this year, but we've told&nbs p;them in no uncertain 
terms that we&n bsp;will never try that again.  So, i f you see RVs tailed in 
next year , it means that I have been fired&nbs p;and replaced, so don't blame 
me. ;)< BR>
Jeff Point
do not archive

> *
________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:08:35 AM PST US From: "Bill VonDane" Subject: Re: RV-List: Kitplanes attack I have been talking with Brian and have decided to build a community web site to house the database.....so all the content can be community owned and managed... I have my own web server so its no biggy for me... I also have a programmer who can do the job for me... I will also add some other features like forums, blogs, builder pages and logs, photo and video galleries, downloads and etc.....also all community owned and managed... We'll make it community owned and all the data will be posted by the community.....and the site will be free of course... It will take me a bit to get this going, but I will keep you posted... -Bill www.rv8a.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris W" <3edcft6@cox.net> Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2006 12:32 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Kitplanes attack Brian Meyette wrote: > > I got an email this morning from a Phil Penny at Belvoir Media Group, > claiming that Kitplanes magazine owns the homebuilt plane vendor directory > spreadsheet I created this fall from various sources, mainly the Internet. > He claims it's theirs because I used similar codes as they did in their > "pay-per-view" directory, like "wf" for wood & fabric, "m" for metal, etc. Stuff like this really gets on my nerves. I think it is always good to remind everyone that copyright and patent laws were written to promote the free exchange of ideas, not to give someone exclusive eternal rights to something. In this case I don't see how they can claim rights to the data. I would change your logical abbreviations to symbols or maybe graphics and then see what their complaint is. Another idea is to make it user maintained. So an automated site would let users submit corrections to the data. That way you can say the data is entered by any number of people and can't possibly be theirs. I would be glad to help build the pages need to do this if you like. I have a possible solution though. If the fight with their lawyers becomes more than it is worth, just have someone else put it up on their web site. When they find out about it just move it again. I'm sure there are several people here that have web sites up. I have a few web sites I would be glad to post it on. Though none of them are aviation related, I would even be willing to make an aviation related site just for this. Of course I would eventually end up having other things there too. -- Chris W KE5GIX "Protect your digital freedom and privacy, eliminate DRM, learn more at http://www.defectivebydesign.org/what_is_drm" ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:51:50 AM PST US From: "Neil" Subject: RE: RV-List: Fuel Injection Line Run I ran mine that way and put a heat shield on the exhaust and some extra vinyl tubing on the fuel line for additional anti-chafe. It's a tight fit but no problems so far. No pictures handy right now. Neil -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Emrath Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2006 3:31 PM Subject: RV-List: Fuel Injection Line Run I've a question for anyone who has done this. I have a Bendix Fuel Injection system installed in my RV-6A, with the servo mounted vertically where one normally has a carb. I'm in the process of running the fuel line from the servo to the distribution spider. I've seen installations that run this line right in front of the sump, to a hole in the inter-cylinder baffling and up to the spider. Using Vetterman's cross over pipes, I've about 7/8" clearance between the pipes and the sump. Has anyone done this and could they share pictures of their installation. Thanks for your help. Marty ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:46:03 AM PST US From: "wskimike" Subject: Re: RV-List: Riveting curved skin surface You need to use a smaller set on your rivet gun. Make sure you practice with it because if you let it move around, you will have a dent in the skin. Mike Harris ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 8:45 PM Subject: RV-List: Riveting curved skin surface > > We are having some difficulty riveting the curved area of the side skin where it meets the belly skin on the RV-10 tailcone. We have too many rivet heads that are sitting "proud" and will have to be drilled out. Looking for any tips or techniques. > > -------- > David Maib > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=84383#84383 > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:31:29 AM PST US From: Paul Besing Subject: Re: RV-List: Kitplanes attack What a bunch of losers...this is virtual space...don't respond to an email, don't engage with them, etc. They would have to subpeona your ISP to get your contact information just to send you a certified letter. I got an email this morning from a Phil Penny at Belvoir Media Group, claiming that Kitplanes magazine owns the homebuilt plane vendor directory spreadsheet I created this fall from various sources, mainly the Internet. He claims it's theirs because I used similar codes as they did in their "pay-per-view" directory, like "wf" for wood & fabric, "m" for metal, etc. I guess he thought I should have used "Z" for metal and "QP" for wood & fabric. He also objected to the fact that my directory has data similar to theirs. Well, I hope it's similar; otherwise someone has incorrect data; a plane's wingspan, for example, is a rather fixed value. It's bad enough that these people are so cheap they even charge subscribers to view things on their web page, but this really takes the cake. Phil threatened to sue me if I don't take it down, and I told Phil it wasn't theirs or copied from theirs, and I won't be taking it down. So, now he's "referring this to our legal counsel". Apparently, there is no limit to their greed. If anyone wants a copy of it, I suggest getting it now. Also, several people have given me updated info to put into it, so if you know of any incorrect or missing data, please let me know, and I will update it with that info. I'm only on a couple lists, but if you're on other homebuilder lists, you might want to forward this URL to other lists you are on, so more people can access the directory while it's still available (just in case they are successful if getting it removed). I put a lot of work into this, as a resource that we can all keep up to date and share. It's a shame there are people and companies like this out there to harass people who are trying to do something decent for everyone. The directory is at http://brian76.mystarband.net/misc.htm#directory -- 8:22 AM __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:32:24 AM PST US From: BillRVSIX@aol.com Subject: RV-List: Vacuum pump fittings Hello I am having trouble with the vacuum pump fittings, on the pump its self and on the instruments. I have sprayed them with silicone spray like the directions say. They say not to use Teflon tape or any liquid form stuff. But when I install the fittings with the silicon and just snug it up I can't get the fittings off without destroying the fittings I Evan had one snap off when I tried to back it out and I only snuged it up a minute before. Any one have any idea what I am doing wrong. I am using the Rapco vacuum pump Kit. Thanks Bill ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:39:02 AM PST US From: "Bob Perkinson" Subject: RV-List: Roll Servo Installation I am in the process of installing the Trio Avionics Autopilot Roll Servo in my RV-9. My intentions are to install it in the right wing adjacent to the aileron bell crank. I would like to see photos or links to photos showing how this instillation was accomplished. You can email me direct at bobperk@bellsouth.net all help and ideas will be appreciated Bob Perkinson Hendersonville, TN. RV9 N658RP Reserved If nothing changes Nothing changes ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:17:24 AM PST US Subject: RV-List: Vacuum pump fittings From: James H Nelson Bill, What is a vacuum pump? Isn't that 50's technology? A mechanical item that is looking to fail at the most inopportune time? Electric Jim ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:42:08 AM PST US From: Richard Reynolds Subject: RV-List: RV-13 ?? Naw, it's fiberglass and jet powered. www.jet-man.com ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 12:11:29 PM PST US From: "Greg Papendick" Subject: Re: RV-List: Riveting curved skin surface Larry, Do you know if it is possible/acceptable to back rivet the turtle deck or would it be better to rivet the conventional way? I am going to be ordering the fastback for my QB RV8 fuselage and since I did not rivet the original deck I thought I would ask how it is normally done. Thanks, Greg LarryRobertHelming wrote on 12/30/2006, 8:11 AM: > > > David, when possible, rivet using the back rivet tool rather than the > flush > tool. I know you cannot back rivet them all however. > > The key to a perfect rivet is to hold the rivet gun head on the rivet > perfectly square and have the bucker who is on the other side maintain > just > enough pressure to keep the bucking bar on the shop side of the rivet > so the > rivet is not pushed out while bucking. When back riveting the bucker > must > keep the bar perfectly square to the rivet with sufficient pressure to > not > get pushed out of the hole by the riveter. Do not be afraid of > drilling out > bad rivets if they truly deserve it, but consider using a rivet shaver or > small file or roto sander to gently remove the high spots. You will want > the high spots and high edges eliminated when you go to painting and wet > sanding if you expect a good even paint job. Are you sure you have > properly > dimpled the problem areas? Also, when riveting to be sure the rivet will > sit down fully in the hole before putting the gun to it. If not, use a > gently turn or three with a countersinking tool over the dimpled hole. > > Best wishes, Larry in Indiana > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 8:45 PM > Subject: RV-List: Riveting curved skin surface > > > > > > We are having some difficulty riveting the curved area of the side skin > > where it meets the belly skin on the RV-10 tailcone. We have too many > > rivet heads that are sitting "proud" and will have to be drilled out. > > Looking for any tips or techniques. > > > > -------- > > David Maib > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=84383#84383 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 12:22:13 PM PST US From: "Rob Prior" Subject: Re: RV-List: Kitplanes attack On 10:25 2006-12-30 Paul Besing wrote: > What a bunch of losers...this is virtual space...don't respond to an > email, don't engage with them, etc. They would have to subpeona your > ISP to get your contact information just to send you a certified > letter. No, it's much easier than that. All they have to do is send an official sounding letter to your ISP, and the ISP will pull your website in fear of being the target of litigation. Don't laugh, it's been done to many websites that post information that is contrary or dissenting to a majority (or a corporate) opinion. Most large national ISP's don't want the hassle, so they err on the side of caution and direct their customer to pull the content. Some smaller ISP's are willing to look at each case as it comes in, and take the time to make a determination whether there's any copyright infringement, slander, libel, etc. that needs to be removed. If not, they'll fight. Maybe all that's necessary is to have a talk with your ISP and see whether they will back you up. -Rob ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 02:03:39 PM PST US From: Tedd McHenry Subject: Re: RV-List: Kitplanes attack The best approach is probably to not build a database yourself, offline, and then publish it online. Since it's bound to contain much of the same data as someone's proprietary database, you're open to allegations of copyright infringement. And the database itself could form a "preponderance of evidence" against you. Instead, build the database in the open, on the web, perhaps using wiki software, and giving all references. Then you're safe. Plus, the workload can be spread out among multiple people. Some people may disparage Kitplanes' publisher, but they do have a right to protect their effort in building their database. Do an end-run around that by building a database cooperatively, out in the open, which YOU have a right to do. --- Tedd McHenry Surrey, BC, Canada DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 03:46:04 PM PST US From: "LarryRobertHelming" Subject: Re: RV-List: Riveting curved skin surface It is acceptable to back rivet the turtle deck. The key to doing it successfully is being able to get to the shop side of the rivets pretty much square on. I have two back rivet tools. One has a black spring thingy on it that helps keep the head on the rivet. The other is a longer tool that is all steel and has a slight bend in one end. I got both from Avery tools. With a bit of effort I could get you a part number is you think you need it. The longer tool is primarily designed for back riveting the top of the wings. You should have no trouble being able to use the one with the spring in it for the turtle deck. The advantage to back riveting is it helps prevent slight indentations on the out side. When you drive the gun from the outside, you are pushing in and if a slight gap is between the skin and the bulkhead you will bet the slight indentation. Applying the power of the blow from the inside out helps push the flange on the bulkhead to the skin to get it flush. Better finish will be accomplished with careful bending of the bulkhead flanges to get them perfectly angled to fit the angle of the finished skin before you drill and rivet. Hope this helps. Let me know if you need more info. Glad to help. Larry in Indiana ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Papendick" Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2006 2:10 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Riveting curved skin surface > > Larry, > > Do you know if it is possible/acceptable to back rivet the turtle deck > or would it be better to rivet the conventional way? I am going to be > ordering the fastback for my QB RV8 fuselage and since I did not rivet > the original deck I thought I would ask how it is normally done. > > Thanks, > Greg > > LarryRobertHelming wrote on 12/30/2006, 8:11 AM: > > > > > > > David, when possible, rivet using the back rivet tool rather than the > > flush > > tool. I know you cannot back rivet them all however. > > > > The key to a perfect rivet is to hold the rivet gun head on the rivet > > perfectly square and have the bucker who is on the other side maintain > > just > > enough pressure to keep the bucking bar on the shop side of the rivet > > so the > > rivet is not pushed out while bucking. When back riveting the bucker > > must > > keep the bar perfectly square to the rivet with sufficient pressure to > > not > > get pushed out of the hole by the riveter. Do not be afraid of > > drilling out > > bad rivets if they truly deserve it, but consider using a rivet shaver > > or > > small file or roto sander to gently remove the high spots. You will > > want > > the high spots and high edges eliminated when you go to painting and wet > > sanding if you expect a good even paint job. Are you sure you have > > properly > > dimpled the problem areas? Also, when riveting to be sure the rivet > > will > > sit down fully in the hole before putting the gun to it. If not, use a > > gently turn or three with a countersinking tool over the dimpled hole. > > > > Best wishes, Larry in Indiana > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > To: > > Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 8:45 PM > > Subject: RV-List: Riveting curved skin surface > > > > > > > > > > We are having some difficulty riveting the curved area of the side > > > skin > > > where it meets the belly skin on the RV-10 tailcone. We have too many > > > rivet heads that are sitting "proud" and will have to be drilled out. > > > Looking for any tips or techniques. > > > > > > -------- > > > David Maib > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=84383#84383 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 04:58:47 PM PST US Subject: RE: RV-List: registration results From: "Robin Marks" Sort of late to the party on this one but... In 5 of the 6 years that Dick Cheney ran Halliburton the company paid not a cent in US taxes. ZERO! In 2005 some of Dick Cheney's stock options increased in value 3,281%. Valued at $241,498 in December 2004 in one year they were re-valued at $8,000,000. He still holds over half a million options. How is your 401K doing, or your pension plan that is not protected by this government and leveraged by corporate raiders to purchase & dismantle companies? Anyone out there pounding rivets while your stock options are rising 3,000%? If not I strongly suggest that next Christmas you ask for some No Bid Contracts. Beats an iPod. I will make every effort to pay all taxes due when the America we once had is returned to the people. Please don't get me started on Katrina, the Bankruptcy Bill, WMD, Domestic Spying, No Child Left Behind, the Clean Air Act..... Now back to programming my 496. Robin Do not archive ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 05:17:07 PM PST US From: "Paul Rice" Subject: Re: RV-List: registration results Robin, What do you think makes us little people strive to get to the top. God bless America then and now. Please don't use this sight as your personal soapbox. Paul, RV8 - almost finished. Do not archive. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin Marks" Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2006 7:57 PM Subject: RE: RV-List: registration results Sort of late to the party on this one but... In 5 of the 6 years that Dick Cheney ran Halliburton the company paid not a cent in US taxes. ZERO! In 2005 some of Dick Cheney's stock options increased in value 3,281%. Valued at $241,498 in December 2004 in one year they were re-valued at $8,000,000. He still holds over half a million options. How is your 401K doing, or your pension plan that is not protected by this government and leveraged by corporate raiders to purchase & dismantle companies? Anyone out there pounding rivets while your stock options are rising 3,000%? If not I strongly suggest that next Christmas you ask for some No Bid Contracts. Beats an iPod. I will make every effort to pay all taxes due when the America we once had is returned to the people. Please don't get me started on Katrina, the Bankruptcy Bill, WMD, Domestic Spying, No Child Left Behind, the Clean Air Act..... Now back to programming my 496. Robin Do not archive ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 05:25:27 PM PST US From: "Terry Watson" Subject: RE: RV-List: registration results That's a mighty slim excuse for a political tirade. Maybe you can find another list where people are interested in what you have to say. Try moveon.org. Terry _____ From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robin Marks Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2006 4:57 PM Subject: RE: RV-List: registration results Sort of late to the party on this one but... In 5 of the 6 years that Dick Cheney ran Halliburton the company paid not a cent in US taxes. ZERO! In 2005 some of Dick Cheney's stock options increased in value 3,281%. Valued at $241,498 in December 2004 in one year they were re-valued at $8,000,000. He still holds over half a million options. How is your 401K doing, or your pension plan that is not protected by this government and leveraged by corporate raiders to purchase & dismantle companies? Anyone out there pounding rivets while your stock options are rising 3,000%? If not I strongly suggest that next Christmas you ask for some No Bid Contracts. Beats an iPod. I will make every effort to pay all taxes due when the America we once had is returned to the people. Please don't get me started on Katrina, the Bankruptcy Bill, WMD, Domestic Spying, No Child Left Behind, the Clean Air Act..... Now back to programming my 496. Robin Do not archive ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 05:54:54 PM PST US From: MLWynn@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Firewall Bend Thanks to all for your input. The reason I am doing it now is that in the prepunch instructions, it comes along on the second page. Makes sense to do it before dimpling the firewall or riveting anything to it. Someone suggested that my backing board probably bent away. I think that is correct. I fixed the issue by clamping boards on both sides (fore and aft) of the bend line. I then faced it down (Vans instructions had you bending up) and went across the bend line with a wood block and a rubber hammer. It is not completely sharp all the way across, but definitely acceptable. I did not want to work harden the firewall by being over-compulsive. If I were to do it again, I would use the two board technique and maybe even use something like a wallpaper roller to make an consistent and straight bend. Regards, Michael Wynn RV 8 (Prepunch) Fuselage ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 06:09:35 PM PST US Subject: RE: RV-List: registration results From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" I have a couple of stock picks that are up over 2000% in the last couple years and I'm just a peon where I work. Guess that means I part of a deep dark conspiracy. Cool, I always wanted to be in the know. Heh And just to be double sure, do not archive this drivel. ________________________________ From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robin Marks Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2006 4:57 PM Subject: RE: RV-List: registration results Sort of late to the party on this one but... In 5 of the 6 years that Dick Cheney ran Halliburton the company paid not a cent in US taxes. ZERO! In 2005 some of Dick Cheney's stock options increased in value 3,281%. Valued at $241,498 in December 2004 in one year they were re-valued at $8,000,000. He still holds over half a million options. How is your 401K doing, or your pension plan that is not protected by this government and leveraged by corporate raiders to purchase & dismantle companies? Anyone out there pounding rivets while your stock options are rising 3,000%? If not I strongly suggest that next Christmas you ask for some No Bid Contracts. Beats an iPod. I will make every effort to pay all taxes due when the America we once had is returned to the people. Please don't get me started on Katrina, the Bankruptcy Bill, WMD, Domestic Spying, No Child Left Behind, the Clean Air Act..... Now back to programming my 496. Robin Do not archive ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 06:22:51 PM PST US From: "dick martin" Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: SNF Changes Listers, lest some of you become afraid to come to OSH, i offer the following:, I have attened every flyin for the last 25 years and yes if you park up in front at Air Show Special, you will experience the horror stories expressed. For the last many years, I have declined parking up in front at Air Show special on the flight line and parked in the back on the west side of the airfield specially designated for RVs Since it is inconvenient for the local gawkers to go their, you will see virually no problems in this area (other than talking other RV enthusiasts). I hope to see all of you at OSH this next summer with your airplanes. Dick Martin RV8 N233M the fast one ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Collins" Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2006 6:10 PM Subject: RV-List: Re: SNF Changes > > > gert.v(at)sbcglobal.net wrote: >> having worked for many a year now at Oshkosh i can attest to the horror >> stories, i have seen the wing as diaper change areas, i have seen folks >> poking in fabric covered wings and caught folks stuffing coke cans in >> exhausts, folding chairs stacked 4 deep against the fiberglass bodies, > > > I say this only HALF in jest. Ban strollers. I hate strollers. Folks are > pushing strollers, looking up and BANG...right into my ankles. > > Seriously, I too have seen the crowds along the flightline. I don't think > I'd park there. Plus the atmosphere in the South 40 is wayyyyyyyy too cool > to ever want to leave. > > -------- > Bob Collins > St. Paul, Minn. > RV Builder's Hotline (free!) > http://rvhotline.expercraft.com > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=84074#84074 > > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 06:25:01 PM PST US From: "dick martin" Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: SNF Changes Oops, I did not see the reference to SNF. Enjoy your trip to OSH. Dick Martin RV8 N233M the fast one ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Collins" Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2006 6:10 PM Subject: RV-List: Re: SNF Changes > > > gert.v(at)sbcglobal.net wrote: >> having worked for many a year now at Oshkosh i can attest to the horror >> stories, i have seen the wing as diaper change areas, i have seen folks >> poking in fabric covered wings and caught folks stuffing coke cans in >> exhausts, folding chairs stacked 4 deep against the fiberglass bodies, > > > I say this only HALF in jest. Ban strollers. I hate strollers. Folks are > pushing strollers, looking up and BANG...right into my ankles. > > Seriously, I too have seen the crowds along the flightline. I don't think > I'd park there. Plus the atmosphere in the South 40 is wayyyyyyyy too cool > to ever want to leave. > > -------- > Bob Collins > St. Paul, Minn. > RV Builder's Hotline (free!) > http://rvhotline.expercraft.com > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=84074#84074 > > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 06:31:13 PM PST US From: "Greg Papendick" Subject: Re: RV-List: Riveting curved skin surface Larry, Thanks for the advice. I have a back riveting tool that has a spring loaded cage that surrounds the shop head, sounds similar to what you have. I had hoped others had back riveted the turtle deck sucessfully as I have limited help and putting someone inside with the bucking bar might be more than I could hope for. I have help that would do fine outside. Regards, Greg LarryRobertHelming wrote on 12/30/2006, 6:23 PM: > > > It is acceptable to back rivet the turtle deck. The key to doing it > successfully is being able to get to the shop side of the rivets > pretty much > square on. I have two back rivet tools. One has a black spring > thingy on > it that helps keep the head on the rivet. The other is a longer tool > that > is all steel and has a slight bend in one end. I got both from Avery > tools. > With a bit of effort I could get you a part number is you think you > need it. > The longer tool is primarily designed for back riveting the top of the > wings. > > You should have no trouble being able to use the one with the spring > in it > for the turtle deck. The advantage to back riveting is it helps prevent > slight indentations on the out side. When you drive the gun from the > outside, you are pushing in and if a slight gap is between the skin > and the > bulkhead you will bet the slight indentation. Applying the power of the > blow from the inside out helps push the flange on the bulkhead to the > skin > to get it flush. Better finish will be accomplished with careful > bending of > the bulkhead flanges to get them perfectly angled to fit the angle of the > finished skin before you drill and rivet. > > Hope this helps. Let me know if you need more info. Glad to help. > > Larry in Indiana > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Greg Papendick" > To: > Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2006 2:10 PM > Subject: Re: RV-List: Riveting curved skin surface > > > > > > Larry, > > > > Do you know if it is possible/acceptable to back rivet the turtle deck > > or would it be better to rivet the conventional way? I am going to be > > ordering the fastback for my QB RV8 fuselage and since I did not rivet > > the original deck I thought I would ask how it is normally done. > > > > Thanks, > > Greg > > > > LarryRobertHelming wrote on 12/30/2006, 8:11 AM: > > > > > > > > > > > David, when possible, rivet using the back rivet tool rather than the > > > flush > > > tool. I know you cannot back rivet them all however. > > > > > > The key to a perfect rivet is to hold the rivet gun head on the rivet > > > perfectly square and have the bucker who is on the other side > maintain > > > just > > > enough pressure to keep the bucking bar on the shop side of the rivet > > > so the > > > rivet is not pushed out while bucking. When back riveting the bucker > > > must > > > keep the bar perfectly square to the rivet with sufficient > pressure to > > > not > > > get pushed out of the hole by the riveter. Do not be afraid of > > > drilling out > > > bad rivets if they truly deserve it, but consider using a rivet > shaver > > > or > > > small file or roto sander to gently remove the high spots. You will > > > want > > > the high spots and high edges eliminated when you go to painting > and wet > > > sanding if you expect a good even paint job. Are you sure you have > > > properly > > > dimpled the problem areas? Also, when riveting to be sure the rivet > > > will > > > sit down fully in the hole before putting the gun to it. If not, > use a > > > gently turn or three with a countersinking tool over the dimpled > hole. > > > > > > Best wishes, Larry in Indiana > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: > > > To: > > > Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 8:45 PM > > > Subject: RV-List: Riveting curved skin surface > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We are having some difficulty riveting the curved area of the side > > > > skin > > > > where it meets the belly skin on the RV-10 tailcone. We have too > many > > > > rivet heads that are sitting "proud" and will have to be drilled > out. > > > > Looking for any tips or techniques. > > > > > > > > -------- > > > > David Maib > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=84383#84383 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 06:33:40 PM PST US From: Vanremog@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: registration results In a message dated 12/30/2006 5:00:25 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, robin1@mrmoisture.com writes: In 5 of the 6 years that Dick Cheney ran Halliburton the company paid not a cent in US taxes. ZERO! In 2005 some of Dick Cheney's stock options increased in value 3,281%. Valued at $241,498 in December 2004 in one year they were re-valued at $8,0 00,000. He still holds over half a million options. How is your 401K doing, or your pension plan that is not protected by this government and leveraged by corporate raiders to purchase & dismantle companies? Anyone out there pounding rivets while your stock options are ri sing 3,000%? If not I strongly suggest that next Christmas you ask for some No B id Contracts. Beats an iPod. I will make every effort to pay all taxes due when the America we once had is returned to the people. Please don=99t get me started on Katrina, the Bankruptcy Bill, WMD, D omestic Spying, No Child Left Behind, the Clean Air Act..... Now back to programming my 496. ======== While I agree with many of your assertions, this is not the place for this info. Besides, most of the people here are not of our political persuasion , so why beat a dead horse? Do not archive. GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A, C/S, Flying 830hrs, Silicon Valley, CA) ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 06:37:22 PM PST US From: Vanremog@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Vacuum pump fittings In a message dated 12/30/2006 11:18:39 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, rv9jim@juno.com writes: What is a vacuum pump? Isn't that 50's technology? A mechanical item that is looking to fail at the most inopportune time? And with my vacuum pump still working at 830 hrs, while the attitude gyro needs it's second set of bearings. GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A, C/S, Flying 830hrs, Silicon Valley, CA) ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 06:40:52 PM PST US From: Ron Lee Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: SNF Changes At 07:24 PM 12/30/2006, you wrote: > >Oops, >I did not see the reference to SNF. Enjoy your trip to OSH. Pretty sneaky to put that in the subject line. :) Ron Lee do not archive ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 07:18:52 PM PST US From: Fiveonepw@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: SNF Changes In a message dated 12/29/2006 8:59:57 PM Central Standard Time, bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net writes: What do you suppose the plan will be for accomodating them all? >>> RV week at OSH! Or maybe Rockford or Appleton would like to host the RV community for the week? And if Jeff Point gets fired for doing the right thing, I'm staying home!!! Mark Phillips - do not archive ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 07:18:52 PM PST US From: David Maib Subject: Re: RV-List: Riveting curved skin surface Vince and Larry, Thanks for the tips. We had much better luck today. It seems that we were both pushing way too hard on the bucking bar. That, coupled with making sure the rivet heads were sitting flush in the dimples, took care of the problem. We pretty much finished the tailcone today without any more problems. Thanks again. This list is priceless. David Maib RV-10 #40559 Tailcone Do Not Archive Here is what I did for this area on my RV8: 1. Don't use the swivel rivet head, use the fixed head that you may or not have received with your rivet gun. The fixed rivet head is easier to control, won't slip off, and hits just the rivet. 2. In addition to dimpling, you will have to slightly counter sink the dimpled holes with the deburring tool or the counter sink tool. I am assuming these are flush rivet holes that you used a dimple tool (like in Avery) to create the dimple. Reason for going a little deeper is that the dimpling tool does a good job, but I found that in weird areas, curves, and thick skins, I had to slightly countersink the wholes to get a truly flush fit. For experiment, dimple a piece of scrap, put in a flush rivet and observe the fit. Next use the deburring tool to deepen the dimple slightly. Insert the flush rivet and you will see that it sits better in the hole. This technique is especially helpful on the thicker skins. Hope this helps, Vince H. RV8 - Finish On Dec 30, 2006, at 7:11 AM, LarryRobertHelming wrote: David, when possible, rivet using the back rivet tool rather than the flush tool. I know you cannot back rivet them all however. The key to a perfect rivet is to hold the rivet gun head on the rivet perfectly square and have the bucker who is on the other side maintain just enough pressure to keep the bucking bar on the shop side of the rivet so the rivet is not pushed out while bucking. When back riveting the bucker must keep the bar perfectly square to the rivet with sufficient pressure to not get pushed out of the hole by the riveter. Do not be afraid of drilling out bad rivets if they truly deserve it, but consider using a rivet shaver or small file or roto sander to gently remove the high spots. You will want the high spots and high edges eliminated when you go to painting and wet sanding if you expect a good even paint job. Are you sure you have properly dimpled the problem areas? Also, when riveting to be sure the rivet will sit down fully in the hole before putting the gun to it. If not, use a gently turn or three with a countersinking tool over the dimpled hole. Best wishes, Larry in Indiana ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 8:45 PM Subject: RV-List: Riveting curved skin surface > > We are having some difficulty riveting the curved area of the side > skin where it meets the belly skin on the RV-10 tailcone. We have > too many rivet heads that are sitting "proud" and will have to be > drilled out. Looking for any tips or techniques. > > -------- > David Maib > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=84383#84383 > > ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 07:26:45 PM PST US From: Bobby Hester Subject: RV-List: Re: [RV Builders] Superior Cylinder Recall I talked to Fred Marsden at Superior late Friday. He is the person handling this recall. Here is some additional info that I found out. The FAA had them issue the Service Bulletin right away. They know who owns the cylinders that are recalled and will be sending out letters to the affective customers as soon as possible. To speed up the process they created the Quick check form link from the online service bulletin http://www.superiorairparts.com/sb0601/ this is were you can type in your serial numbers and find out if they are on the recall list. If they are, you need to fill out the online Warrenty Claims Form. They will use this info to process the recall. Manufacture date format info In the recall it shows were to find the date of manufacture of the cylinder from within serial number. The example shown is 52-F05-32055. F05 is the date code BUT IT DOES NOT MEAN FEB. 05' , It means June 05' A=JAN B=FEB C=MARCH D=APRIL E=MAY F=JUNE G=JULY H=AUG I=Is not used J=SEPT K=OCT L=NOV M=DEC I will be having a local A&P mechanic help me to replace my cylinders as soon as the new ones arrive. ------ Surfing the web from my laptop in Hopkinsville, KY Visit my RV7A site: http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/RVSite/ Bobby Hester wrote: > I was just surfing around and happened to look at Superior's web site > and found this recall that was issued on Dec. 18, 06 > > http://www.superiorairparts.com/sb0601/letter.asp > > > I'll be checking mine tomarrow, I have all of 0.5 hrs on mine and > hoping to start putting alot more on them in Feb. I hope they are not > part of this recall. > > -- > ------ > Surfing the web from my laptop in Hopkinsville, KY > Visit my RV7A site: http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/RVSite/ > > > __._,_.___ > Messages in this topic > > (1) Reply (via web post) > > > > Messages > > > > > > > > > > The RV Aircraft Builders Group > Yahoo! Groups > > > Change settings via the Web > > (Yahoo! ID required) > Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest > > > > Visit Your Group > > Unsubscribe > Recent Activity > > * > 11 > New Members > > > Visit Your Group > > > > * Aviation school > > * Plane tickets > > * Charter plane > > * Aviation headset > > * Bose aviation headsets > > > Yahoo! News > > Fashion News > > > What's the word on > > fashion and style? > > Y! Personals > > Get a love life > > > Post a profile > > and see who visits > > Sell Online > > Yahoo! > > e-commerce > > comes with 24 hour > > phone support. > > . > > __,_._,___ ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 07:27:17 PM PST US From: Bobby Hester Subject: RV-List: Re: [RV Builders] Superior Cylinder Recall I talked to Fred Marsden at Superior late Friday. He is the person handling this recall. Here is some additional info that I found out. The FAA had them issue the Service Bulletin right away. They know who owns the cylinders that are recalled and will be sending out letters to the affective customers as soon as possible. To speed up the process they created the Quick check form link from the online service bulletin http://www.superiorairparts.com/sb0601/ this is were you can type in your serial numbers and find out if they are on the recall list. If they are, you need to fill out the online Warrenty Claims Form. They will use this info to process the recall. Manufacture date format info In the recall it shows were to find the date of manufacture of the cylinder from within serial number. The example shown is 52-F05-32055. F05 is the date code BUT IT DOES NOT MEAN FEB. 05' , It means June 05' A=JAN B=FEB C=MARCH D=APRIL E=MAY F=JUNE G=JULY H=AUG I=Is not used J=SEPT K=OCT L=NOV M=DEC I will be having a local A&P mechanic help me to replace my cylinders as soon as the new ones arrive. ------ Surfing the web from my laptop in Hopkinsville, KY Visit my RV7A site: http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/RVSite/ Bobby Hester wrote: > I was just surfing around and happened to look at Superior's web site > and found this recall that was issued on Dec. 18, 06 > > http://www.superiorairparts.com/sb0601/letter.asp > > > I'll be checking mine tomarrow, I have all of 0.5 hrs on mine and > hoping to start putting alot more on them in Feb. I hope they are not > part of this recall. > > -- > ------ > Surfing the web from my laptop in Hopkinsville, KY > Visit my RV7A site: http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/RVSite/ > > > __._,_.___ > Messages in this topic > > (1) Reply (via web post) > > > > Messages > > > > > > > > > > The RV Aircraft Builders Group > Yahoo! Groups > > > Change settings via the Web > > (Yahoo! ID required) > Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest > > > > Visit Your Group > > Unsubscribe > Recent Activity > > * > 11 > New Members > > > Visit Your Group > > > > * Aviation school > > * Plane tickets > > * Charter plane > > * Aviation headset > > * Bose aviation headsets > > > Yahoo! News > > Fashion News > > > What's the word on > > fashion and style? > > Y! Personals > > Get a love life > > > Post a profile > > and see who visits > > Sell Online > > Yahoo! > > e-commerce > > comes with 24 hour > > phone support. > > . > > __,_._,___ ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 07:29:02 PM PST US From: Paul Besing Subject: Re: RV-List: Kitplanes attack Good point...didn't think of that. Well, if you have your own web server, then it's not a problem I guess... do not archive Rob Prior wrote: On 10:25 2006-12-30 Paul Besing wrote: > What a bunch of losers...this is virtual space...don't respond to an > email, don't engage with them, etc. They would have to subpeona your > ISP to get your contact information just to send you a certified > letter. No, it's much easier than that. All they have to do is send an official sounding letter to your ISP, and the ISP will pull your website in fear of being the target of litigation. Don't laugh, it's been done to many websites that post information that is contrary or dissenting to a majority (or a corporate) opinion. Most large national ISP's don't want the hassle, so they err on the side of caution and direct their customer to pull the content. Some smaller ISP's are willing to look at each case as it comes in, and take the time to make a determination whether there's any copyright infringement, slander, libel, etc. that needs to be removed. If not, they'll fight. Maybe all that's necessary is to have a talk with your ISP and see whether they will back you up. -Rob __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 08:32:07 PM PST US From: "Paul A. Barker" Subject: RV-List: RV-9 Wings Needed Does anybody out there happen to have an RV-9 wing kit in any state of completion that they no longer want? Please contact me off list if so. Thanks, PAB ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 08:50:11 PM PST US From: Steve Eberhart Subject: Re: RV-List: Riveting curved skin surface Hi Greg, Larry is right. I was the one inside the tail cone while Larry was bucking on the outside. The spring loaded back rivet tool works great on the turtle deck. I used the longer one, Larry described for wing use, when we riveted the upside down canoe. Should have used the spring loaded one as I smashed some interior smilies into the skins. This is a fun time, it is where it starts looking like an airplane. Steve Eberhart RV-7A, just mounted the stabilizer, hangar mate of "Indiana Larry" http://www.newtech.com/n14se/P1010326.JPG Greg Papendick wrote: > > > Larry, > Thanks for the advice. I have a back riveting tool that has a spring > loaded cage that surrounds the shop head, sounds similar to what you > have. I had hoped others had back riveted the turtle deck sucessfully > as I have limited help and putting someone inside with the bucking bar > might be more than I could hope for. I have help that would do fine > outside. > > Regards, > Greg > LarryRobertHelming wrote on 12/30/2006, 6:23 PM: > > > > > > > It is acceptable to back rivet the turtle deck. The key to doing it > > successfully is being able to get to the shop side of the rivets > > pretty much > > square on. I have two back rivet tools. One has a black spring > > thingy on > > it that helps keep the head on the rivet. The other is a longer tool > > that > > is all steel and has a slight bend in one end. I got both from Avery > > tools. > > With a bit of effort I could get you a part number is you think you > > need it. > > The longer tool is primarily designed for back riveting the top of the > > wings. > > > > You should have no trouble being able to use the one with the spring > > in it > > for the turtle deck. The advantage to back riveting is it helps prevent > > slight indentations on the out side. When you drive the gun from the > > outside, you are pushing in and if a slight gap is between the skin > > and the > > bulkhead you will bet the slight indentation. Applying the power of the > > blow from the inside out helps push the flange on the bulkhead to the > > skin > > to get it flush. Better finish will be accomplished with careful > > bending of > > the bulkhead flanges to get them perfectly angled to fit the angle of the > > finished skin before you drill and rivet. > > > > Hope this helps. Let me know if you need more info. Glad to help. > > > > Larry in Indiana > ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 10:11:18 PM PST US From: "Dave & Brenda Emond" Subject: RV-List: Re: Fuel tank sender gasket I fitted my tank sender units to the tank using just the rubber gaskets, and a little automotive sealer on the screws. After filling the tanks with Avgas to check for leaks, within a week the Avgas has caused the rubber gaskets to deform and bulge, causing a major leak. I am contemplating doing what many other builders before me recommended, leave the gasket out and proseal the sender unit in place. I want to share this experience with all those that might be thinking along the same lines as I was. Dave Emond RV10 - #40159 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rv-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rv-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.