Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:35 AM - GA landing fee at KFLL (Dale Walter)
2. 05:17 AM - Re: Flightline Interiors (Randall E Russell)
3. 05:17 AM - Re: Flightline Interiors (Randall E Russell)
4. 05:57 AM - Re: Flightline Interiors (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Mich=E8le_Delsol?=)
5. 06:01 AM - Re: Flightline Interiors (Hopperdhh@aol.com)
6. 06:06 AM - Re: Learning Basic Aileron rolls in an RV (Jeff Linebaugh)
7. 06:43 AM - Re: Flightline Interiors (Lloyd, Daniel R.)
8. 06:44 AM - Superior Engine vs. Firewall Forward Kit (Snow, Daniel A.)
9. 09:06 AM - Re: Learning Basic Aileron rolls in an RV (David Leonard)
10. 09:45 AM - Wings Purchase is Finally Here (Stephanie Marshall)
11. 10:25 AM - Re: Learning Basic Aileron rolls in an RV (Bob J.)
12. 10:28 AM - Re: Re: Cracked canopy (Jim Pleasants)
13. 10:34 AM - Re: Learning Basic Aileron rolls in an RV (Terry Watson)
14. 11:12 AM - GRRRRRINNNNNNN !!!! N696WG First Flight !! (Gerry Filby)
15. 11:30 AM - Re: Learning Basic Aileron rolls in an RV (Dan Checkoway)
16. 11:47 AM - Re: Superior Engine vs. Firewall Forward Kit (Gerry Filby)
17. 12:09 PM - aerobatics (Wheeler North)
18. 01:25 PM - Re: Re: Cracked canopy (linn Walters)
19. 02:11 PM - Wood prop torque? (Matt Jurotich)
20. 02:49 PM - Re: GRRRRRINNNNNNN !!!! N696WG First Flight !! (RV7AODYSSEY@aol.com)
21. 04:57 PM - Re: aerobatics (Jeff Dowling)
22. 05:23 PM - Re: aerobatics (Kyle Boatright)
Message 1
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| Subject: | GA landing fee at KFLL |
Hi All
FYI
Just in case you don't get AOPA's ePilot or you missed this.
If you think "well I don't go there so it doesn't brother me" think again.
it's a foot in the door once they get it there, who's next.
Jim Scroggins <http://jimscroggins.com/> 99714 EAA, AOPA, Florida Aero Club
AOPA Close to Home ~
FORT LAUDERDALE SEEKS LANDING FEES FOR GA
The aviation department at Fort Lauderdale-Hollywood International wants to
impose on general aviation the same landing fee it charges the commercial
planes-because, according to the airport, GA doesn't pay its fair share.
AOPA contends that pilots should continue to support airport operations
through the airport's fuel flowage fee and other charges not paid by
commercial aircraft. The department proposes to charge 97 cents per 1,000
pounds of nominal gross landing weight for each GA landing, with a minimum
fee of $10-that's the same amount it currently charges the airlines. "This
minimum fee is especially objectionable," said AOPA's Florida Regional
Representative Nelson Rhodes. "Take a Cessna 172, for example. With this $10
minimum, the pilot would have to pay four times what he would at 97 cents
per thousand. That's paying too much. The fuel flowage fee adequately covers
the cost for GA to operate at the airport." Under the current proposal,
based GA aircraft would not be exempt from the landing fee. Airports
typically grant an exemption from landing fees to aircraft based at an
airport because they usually pay tiedown or hangar fees, fuel flowage fees,
and other charges. A public hearing about this proposal will take place
during the Broward County Commission meeting at 2 p.m. on Tuesday, January
23, at the Broward County Governmental Center in Room 422. Rhodes will be on
hand to testify against the proposal. AOPA members are encouraged to attend
and voice their opposition
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Flightline Interiors |
Thanks for the great feedback. Randy DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Flightline Interiors |
Thanks for the great feedback. Randy DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 4
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| Subject: | Flightline Interiors |
I also must say that I am very satisfied with her work.
Michele
RV8 Finishing
_____
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV7AODYSSEY@aol.com
Sent: dimanche 14 janvier 2007 18:40
Subject: Re: RV-List: Flightline Interiors
Hi,
I also had purchased Oregon Aero seats for my &A and had abby cover. She
did a great job, I also purchased the whole interior package from her. She
was great to deal with, worked with me on color scheme and delivered when
she said she would.
Ed
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Flightline Interiors |
In a message dated 1/15/2007 8:59:33 AM Eastern Standard Time,
michele.delsol@microsigma.fr writes:
I also must say that I am very satisfied with her work.
Michele
RV8 Finishing
Me too.
Dan Hopper
RV-7A
do not archive
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Learning Basic Aileron rolls in an RV |
Dont perform aerobatics without proper instruction. Know your limits and
never exceed themthat applies to anything in an airplane, especially
aerobatics.
Example: Locally, a T-6 owner recently nearly pulled the wings off his T-6
when he attempted an aileron roll without knowing what he was doing. Half
way through the roll he got disoriented, and pulled through a rolling split
S. Besides going well over redline, he applied rolling gs to the wing. So
bad was it, that my wife easily noticed all the wrinkles in the top surface
of the wing. The wings were replaced$$
Considering what you have in your airplane time/money wise, and considering
any family/friends you may have, you owe it to both to do it rightgo get
some dual from a qualified instructor. I think you will find that it was
the best money you spent, and the most fun you have had in an airplane!
Jeff Linebaugh
jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net
F1 Rocket #33 N240KT
Memphis, TN.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Flightline Interiors |
I also could not be happier with Flight line. She did the interior for
my 10 and it is outstanding. She works closely with you during the
design phase to make sure you get exactly what you want. Then she has
great post sale follow up to make sure you are still happy after it is
installed.
A-1++++vendor
Dan
N289DT (RV10E)
_____
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Hopperdhh@aol.com
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 9:01 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Flightline Interiors
In a message dated 1/15/2007 8:59:33 AM Eastern Standard Time,
michele.delsol@microsigma.fr writes:
I also must say that I am very satisfied with her work.
Michele
RV8 Finishing
Me too.
Dan Hopper
RV-7A
do not archive
Message 8
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| Subject: | Superior Engine vs. Firewall Forward Kit |
I've run into a couple problems trying to match Van's Firewall Forward
Kit with the Superior XP 0-320. The first is the control cable support
plate that fits between the engine and the carburetor. The mixture
cable threads do not reach to the plate, requiring some type of
extension to be added to the plate.
The second challenge is getting the FAB to mate with the carburetor.
The main throat hole in the FAB mount plate will have to be enlarged,
and the mounting holes will have to be redrilled to match the
carburetor. The carburetor also has a protrusion on the bottom for
which a new hole must be cut.
Has anyone else encountered these problems and developed modifications?
Daniel Snow
RV-9A, Engine
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Learning Basic Aileron rolls in an RV |
There has been a lot of great comments so far. The one thing I have not
seen mentioned is getting a book on basic aerobatic flying. There are
several available. Having spent the time with the book, you will understan
d
the mechanics of each maneuver and the potential pitfalls. This will then
make your time with your instructor (aka, most RV pilots) much more
effective and efficient.
Dont forget to memorize the entry speeds published by Vans.
David Leonard
Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
My websites at:
http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/rotaryroster/index.html
http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/vp4skydoc/index.html
http://leonardiniraq.blogspot.com
On 1/15/07, Jeff Linebaugh <jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> Don't perform aerobatics without proper instruction. Know your limits an
d
> never exceed them=85that applies to anything in an airplane, especially
> aerobatics.
>
>
> Example: Locally, a T-6 owner recently nearly pulled the wings off his
> T-6 when he attempted an aileron roll without knowing what he was doing.
Half
> way through the roll he got disoriented, and pulled through a rolling spl
it
> S. Besides going well over redline, he applied rolling g's to the wing.
So
> bad was it, that my wife easily noticed all the wrinkles in the top surfa
ce
> of the wing. The wings were replaced=85$$
>
>
> Considering what you have in your airplane time/money wise, and
> considering any family/friends you may have, you owe it to both to do it
> right=85go get some dual from a qualified instructor. I think you will f
ind
> that it was the best money you spent, and the most fun you have had in an
> airplane!
>
>
> *Jeff Linebaugh***
>
> *jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net***
>
> *F1 Rocket #33 N240KT***
>
> *Memphis, TN.*
>
>
> *
>
===========
===========
===========
> *
>
>
--
Message 10
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| Subject: | Wings Purchase is Finally Here |
Well we have finally reached the next step.....I am ordering the wings
on Friday!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I am ordering them since Baron is in the Middle East somewhere right now
or HE would be sending in THE order.
Stephanie Marshall
www.rv-8.info <http://www.rv-8.info/>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Learning Basic Aileron rolls in an RV |
Tim, a good book to read is "Better Aerobatics" by Alan Cassidy. I have
read/thumbed through a few aerobatic books, and by far this one is the
best. A couple of years ago I went up in my -6 with Greg Koontz, and
learned a lot of good stuff from him, which just reiterated some things I
read from the book. Up until that point I went up with a few experienced
guys who showed me the ropes. But for the most part you will have to teach
yourself and practice with plenty of altitude after you get someone
competent to show you how, and I emphasize "competent" (someone who either
does airshows or competitive acro). You'll be better, safer and have more
confidence if you are properly taught.
Regards,
Bob Japundza
RV-6 flying F1 under const.
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Cracked canopy |
Ben:
As a temporary fix (until a more permanent one), I know of airplanes
with cracks in the windshield, still flying.
First, stop drill the crack,
put a row of 1/16 holes on each side of the crack, about 3/8 inch
apart and 1/4 from the crack.
Lace with safety wire, so that it looks like a shoe lace on each
side.
Apply silicone sealant on both sides of the windshield (filling the
holes).
It'll last for years if necessary.
Do not archive
YMMV
Jim Pleasants
----- Original Message -----
From: n801bh@netzero.com
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 1:09 PM
Subject: RV-List: RE: Cracked canopy
On a flight around the patch with a hangar mate in his RV-6 yesterday
the canopy cracked while we were taxing out. Taxiway was a little rough
for built up ice and the temp was -2f. About halfway to the active we
heard a pop and noticed the rear portion of the canopy had a 3 inch
crack going bothways from the center stiffener, this was 5" or so
rearward of the place where the top mates with the front windshield. He
is getting stuff together to replace the thing but not looking forward
to the VERY lengthy process. Since he doesn't like puters I have two
questions for you guys that I will relay back to him.
Is there any product that can be squirted, injected, packed or by
whatever means,,, into the crack to glue it back together till he gets
the repair done???
He tells me the canopy comes in a complete section, he fitted it so
that it fit perfectly all the way around and then cut the in half at the
like Vans calls for. Has anybody ever replaced just the back half by
making a template of the bad section?? or will he need to go through the
entire whole canopy thing??
thanks in advance,
do not archive
Ben Haas
N801BH
Message 13
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| Subject: | Learning Basic Aileron rolls in an RV |
At the risk of being politically incorrect and accused of advocating
dangerous antisocial behavior, I do know of one guy who taught himself
aerobatics. It was awhile back, of course, and his name was Bob Hoover.
Disclaimer: My guess is that if he were starting over today, he would read
the books and take the lessons.
Terry
On 1/15/07, Jeff Linebaugh <jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net> wrote:
Don't perform aerobatics without proper instruction. Know your limits and
never exceed them.that applies to anything in an airplane, especially
aerobatics.
Example: Locally, a T-6 owner recently nearly pulled the wings off his T-6
when he attempted an aileron roll without knowing what he was doing. Half
way through the roll he got disoriented, and pulled through a rolling split
S. Besides going well over redline, he applied rolling g's to the wing. So
bad was it, that my wife easily noticed all the wrinkles in the top surface
of the wing. The wings were replaced.$$
Considering what you have in your airplane time/money wise, and considering
any family/friends you may have, you owe it to both to do it right.go get
some dual from a qualified instructor. I think you will find that it was
the best money you spent, and the most fun you have had in an airplane!
Jeff Linebaugh
jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net
F1 Rocket #33 N240KT
Memphis, TN.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com/"
target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
--
Message 14
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| Subject: | GRRRRRINNNNNNN !!!! N696WG First Flight !! |
This morning N696WG (RV-9 #90842) flew into the ice blue skies over KHAF
for the first time.
What an incredible experience.
Bart's Aerosport IO-320 hauled her off the runway like we were late for a
n angel's wedding (and it didn't use a drop of oil). She flew hands off i
mmediately. Its early days, but the first impression is that she didn't s
eem to need much elevator trim changes throughout the power range ... or
maybe I was just hanging on for grim death :-) Similarly rudder, both on
climbout and during normal turns, the ball just seemed to want to be in t
he center. I saw about 135 KIAS at 24 squared. 1/2 flaps stalled at about
42 KIAS. The whole experience was pretty intense - winds were much chopp
ier than I expected up at 3,500 ft - didn't spend much time looking at th
e gauges, although CHT's stayed comfortable despite my leaky baffles, oil
temp was a bit on the low side.
My bad ... forgot my downwind checklist and landed with no flaps. Now I'm
wondering what the flaps are good for - she landed very predictably ...
as close as I've been to a greaser for some time. The Hartzell constant s
peed prop gave me superb control, really helps on final to control the de
cent ... at least compared to the fixed pitch I've been flying recently.
To all of you builders out there banging rivets, bored of the wings, brea
king your back in the fuselage, cursing over the canopy frame and losing
sleep over the engine install - KEEP AT IT !! The payback is indescribabl
e.
And now recognition for the co-conspirators:
First to my partner Wayne for his unstinting faith, endless encouragement
and many, many hours of help; to Dan Checkoway that constant voice of un
common good sense; to Brian, Dave & Doug my fellow inmates at HAF - I gue
ss we don't need to repack the parachute ;-); to Dennis T at WVI a fellow
RV-9 driver, to Mike Seagar a gentleman and one of the best CFI's I've f
lown with, and last but not least - Dick VanGrunsven and all the folks at
Vans - what an incredible little plane :-)
... my thanks to y'all :-)
g
(My jaws aching from all this grinning :)
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Learning Basic Aileron rolls in an RV |
LOL. Tell ya what...if Bob Hoover is the model to follow, before you go
out and try going upside down without training, make sure you can at
least pour a cup of tea while doing plain old coordinated turns! ;-)
DO NOT ARCHIVE (and get some training)
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
www.rvproject.com / www.weathermeister.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Terry Watson
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 10:35 AM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Learning Basic Aileron rolls in an RV
At the risk of being politically incorrect and accused of advocating
dangerous antisocial behavior, I do know of one guy who taught himself
aerobatics. It was awhile back, of course, and his name was Bob Hoover.
Disclaimer: My guess is that if he were starting over today, he would
read the books and take the lessons.
Terry
On 1/15/07, Jeff Linebaugh <jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net> wrote:
Don't perform aerobatics without proper instruction. Know your limits
and never exceed them.that applies to anything in an airplane,
especially aerobatics.
Example: Locally, a T-6 owner recently nearly pulled the wings off
his T-6 when he attempted an aileron roll without knowing what he was
doing. Half way through the roll he got disoriented, and pulled
through a rolling split S. Besides going well over redline, he applied
rolling g's to the wing. So bad was it, that my wife easily noticed all
the wrinkles in the top surface of the wing. The wings were replaced.$$
Considering what you have in your airplane time/money wise, and
considering any family/friends you may have, you owe it to both to do it
right.go get some dual from a qualified instructor. I think you will
find that it was the best money you spent, and the most fun you have had
in an airplane!
Jeff Linebaugh
jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net
F1 Rocket #33 N240KT
Memphis, TN.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-Listhref="http:
//forums.matronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
--
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Superior Engine vs. Firewall Forward Kit |
I had similar experiences with my IO-320 on an RV-9 - I have the AFP fuel
injection so I had to fabricate all my control cable terminations myself
. I had to replace the stock fuel controller engine studs with longer one
s, fabricate my own FAB mounting plate and re-glass the inlet to fit the
canopy. You just gotta do what you gotta do to make it fit.
g
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Snow, Daniel A. [mailto:Daniel.Snow@wancdf.com]
>Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 06:43 AM
>To: rv-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: Superior Engine vs. Firewall Forward Kit
>
>
>
>I've run into a couple problems trying to match Van's Firewall Forward
>Kit with the Superior XP 0-320. The first is the control cable support
>plate that fits between the engine and the carburetor. The mixture
>cable threads do not reach to the plate, requiring some type of
>extension to be added to the plate.
>
>The second challenge is getting the FAB to mate with the carburetor.
>The main throat hole in the FAB mount plate will have to be enlarged,
>and the mounting holes will have to be redrilled to match the
>carburetor. The carburetor also has a protrusion on the bottom for
>which a new hole must be cut.
>
>Has anyone else encountered these problems and developed modifications?
>
>Daniel Snow
>RV-9A, Engine
>
>
Message 17
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|
Well,
It has already been said, but let's take it from another angle.
There are only three bad things that can happen doing aerobatics, generally.
1. you hit the ground.
2. you rip the wings off and then hit the ground.
3. you unload the wings by entering a spin, then hit the ground.
As you can see, there's a common denominator here. In spite of the many
great stories of self learners as far as I know an instructor is one of the
best ways to learn how to avoid the above without killing yourself.
Disorientation and not following the plan is what causes the first. And
blowing a manuver is what causes the second and third. So I would recommend
you use an instructor to learn how to plan, how to reduce disorientation,
how to avoid the second and how avoid and recover from the third while being
totally disoriented and at any attitude.
Then learn how to do a roll.
I would also suggest you do this in a plane that has been fully vetted for
the intended manuvers.
As well you can probably see that the above applies to any form of flying so
this instruction is not just for the joy of doing aerobatics, it will make
you a safer pilot.
And finally, Duane Cole's book "Roll around a point" was a good read but I
must qualify that it was not the end all of teaching one on how to do a
roll.
W
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Cracked canopy |
Sorry Jim, but this repair will be as ugly as it gets!You did good with
the 'stop drill the cracks', but after that wick some weldon (3, I
think) down the crack and it'll glue it back together. I cracked my
canopy on the Pitts doing a rather violent outside snap, and when I
tried to line it up to put the glue on, the piece cracked completely
out. I taped the piece back in as best I could and used the acrylic
glue. Been that way for about 9 years now. I'm just too cheap to buy a
new one!!! :-P
Linn
do not archive
Jim Pleasants wrote:
> Ben:
> As a temporary fix (until a more permanent one), I know of
> airplanes with cracks in the windshield, still flying.
>
> First, stop drill the crack,
>
> put a row of 1/16 holes on each side of the crack, about 3/8 inch
> apart and 1/4 from the crack.
>
> Lace with safety wire, so that it looks like a shoe lace on each side.
>
> Apply silicone sealant on both sides of the windshield (filling
> the holes).
>
> It'll last for years if necessary.
>
> Do not archive
>
> YMMV
>
> Jim Pleasants
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: n801bh@netzero.com <mailto:n801bh@netzero.com>
> To: rv-list@matronics.com <mailto:rv-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 1:09 PM
> Subject: RV-List: RE: Cracked canopy
>
> On a flight around the patch with a hangar mate in his RV-6
> yesterday the canopy cracked while we were taxing out. Taxiway was
> a little rough for built up ice and the temp was -2f. About
> halfway to the active we heard a pop and noticed the rear portion
> of the canopy had a 3 inch crack going bothways from the center
> stiffener, this was 5" or so rearward of the place where the top
> mates with the front windshield. He is getting stuff together to
> replace the thing but not looking forward to the VERY lengthy
> process. Since he doesn't like puters I have two questions for you
> guys that I will relay back to him.
>
> Is there any product that can be squirted, injected, packed or by
> whatever means,,, into the crack to glue it back together till he
> gets the repair done???
>
> He tells me the canopy comes in a complete section, he fitted it
> so that it fit perfectly all the way around and then cut the in
> half at the like Vans calls for. Has anybody ever replaced just
> the back half by making a template of the bad section?? or will he
> need to go through the entire whole canopy thing??
>
> thanks in advance,
>
> do not archive
>
> Ben Haas
> N801BH
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Wood prop torque? |
Folks
I have a RV 6A with 180 hp O260 A1A using 1/2 inch prop bolts for a
wood prop. What is the proper torque? How often to re-torque?
Thanks in advance.
Matthew M. Jurotich
e-mail mail to: <mjurotich@hst.nasa.gov>
phone : 301-286-5919
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: GRRRRRINNNNNNN !!!! N696WG First Flight !! |
congradulations,well done.
Ed
Message 21
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I forgot if Vans put it in the plans or if I saw it in the rvator but
he explains how to do simple aerobatics in your rv.
Shemp
Wheeler North wrote:
>
> Well,
>
> It has already been said, but let's take it from another angle.
>
> There are only three bad things that can happen doing aerobatics, generally.
>
> 1. you hit the ground.
>
> 2. you rip the wings off and then hit the ground.
>
> 3. you unload the wings by entering a spin, then hit the ground.
>
> As you can see, there's a common denominator here. In spite of the many
> great stories of self learners as far as I know an instructor is one of the
> best ways to learn how to avoid the above without killing yourself.
>
> Disorientation and not following the plan is what causes the first. And
> blowing a manuver is what causes the second and third. So I would recommend
> you use an instructor to learn how to plan, how to reduce disorientation,
> how to avoid the second and how avoid and recover from the third while being
> totally disoriented and at any attitude.
>
> Then learn how to do a roll.
>
> I would also suggest you do this in a plane that has been fully vetted for
> the intended manuvers.
>
> As well you can probably see that the above applies to any form of flying so
> this instruction is not just for the joy of doing aerobatics, it will make
> you a safer pilot.
>
> And finally, Duane Cole's book "Roll around a point" was a good read but I
> must qualify that it was not the end all of teaching one on how to do a
> roll.
>
> W
>
>
>
Message 22
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In the builder's manual, allowed maneuvers, entry speeds, etc. are listed.
In an RVator 2-3 years ago, he went into the subject of self taught
aerobatics. The gist of the article was "It isn't recommended, but since
you're gonna do it anyway, here's some advice to reduce your chances of
getting killed."
KB
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Dowling" <shempdowling2@earthlink.net>
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 7:54 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: aerobatics
>
> I forgot if Vans put it in the plans or if I saw it in the rvator but he
> explains how to do simple aerobatics in your rv.
>
> Shemp
>
>
> Wheeler North wrote:
>>
>> Well,
>>
>> It has already been said, but let's take it from another angle.
>>
>> There are only three bad things that can happen doing aerobatics,
>> generally.
>>
>> 1. you hit the ground.
>>
>> 2. you rip the wings off and then hit the ground.
>>
>> 3. you unload the wings by entering a spin, then hit the ground.
>>
>> As you can see, there's a common denominator here. In spite of the many
>> great stories of self learners as far as I know an instructor is one of
>> the
>> best ways to learn how to avoid the above without killing yourself.
>>
>> Disorientation and not following the plan is what causes the first. And
>> blowing a manuver is what causes the second and third. So I would
>> recommend
>> you use an instructor to learn how to plan, how to reduce disorientation,
>> how to avoid the second and how avoid and recover from the third while
>> being
>> totally disoriented and at any attitude.
>>
>> Then learn how to do a roll.
>>
>> I would also suggest you do this in a plane that has been fully vetted
>> for
>> the intended manuvers.
>>
>> As well you can probably see that the above applies to any form of flying
>> so
>> this instruction is not just for the joy of doing aerobatics, it will
>> make
>> you a safer pilot.
>>
>> And finally, Duane Cole's book "Roll around a point" was a good read but
>> I
>> must qualify that it was not the end all of teaching one on how to do a
>> roll.
>> W
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
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