---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 01/19/07: 25 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:10 AM - Re: RV9a pushrod to aileron question (Danny Lawhon) 2. 05:55 AM - Re: Re: Why is it such a bad thing (Chuck Jensen) 3. 06:07 AM - Re: Appeal: Testify for EAA etc... (n801bh@netzero.com) 4. 06:29 AM - Re: Appeal: Testify for EAA etc... (Bob Collins) 5. 06:31 AM - Re: Re: Why is it such a bad thing (Bob Collins) 6. 07:14 AM - Re: Appeal: Testify for EAA etc... (RV7AODYSSEY@aol.com) 7. 08:17 AM - Re: Appeal: Testify for EAA etc... (Lloyd, Daniel R.) 8. 08:17 AM - Re: Appeal: Testify for EAA etc... (Tim Bryan) 9. 10:16 AM - Looking for a Certain Manufacturer (John Fasching) 10. 10:57 AM - Why is it such a bad thing - was family of pilot awarded $10.5M (Larry E. James) 11. 11:11 AM - Re: Re: Re: Why is it such a bad thing (ptrotter@optonline.net) 12. 11:20 AM - Re: Why is it such a bad thing - was family of pilot awarded $10 (Bob Collins) 13. 12:34 PM - Re: Appeal: Testify for EAA etc... (Jerry Springer) 14. 01:01 PM - Re: Re: Why is it such a bad thing - was family of pilot awarded $10 (Bob) 15. 01:10 PM - Re: Looking for a Certain Manufacturer (Antoine Moulin) 16. 01:24 PM - Tip-up Canopy Drilling (Randall E Russell) 17. 01:42 PM - Re: Why is it such a bad thing - was family of pilot awarded $10 (Bob Collins) 18. 02:08 PM - Re: Tip-up Canopy Drilling (William Gill) 19. 02:22 PM - Re: Tip-up Canopy Drilling (Brian Meyette) 20. 02:42 PM - Re: Re: Why is it such a bad thing - was family of pilot awarded $10 (LarryRobertHelming) 21. 02:59 PM - Re: Tip-up Canopy Drilling (LarryRobertHelming) 22. 03:32 PM - Re: how to wire basic resistive Isspro fuel gauges (Douglas Kohser) 23. 04:39 PM - Re: Re: Why is it such a bad thing - was family of pilot awarded $10 (LarryRobertHelming) 24. 05:06 PM - Re: Why is it such a bad thing - was family of pilot awarded $ (Bob Collins) 25. 07:37 PM - Re: how to wire basic resistive Isspro fuel gauges (Bill Boyd) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:10:53 AM PST US From: Danny Lawhon Subject: Re: RV-List: RV9a pushrod to aileron question yes thats what your suppose to do there.. because of the angle the tube travels through the hold.. Danny.. --- Jim Fogarty at Lakes & Leisure Realty wrote: > I'm trying to get the pushrod to the aileron on the > right wing to move smoothly, however, the pushrod is > hitting the inboard side of the aft spar where the > pushrod travels through the hole. Can I file the > hole bigger so the rod and the rivets will not drag > and or hit the aft spar? > > Thanks. > > Jim ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:55:09 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Why is it such a bad thing From: "Chuck Jensen" ptrotter wrote: > I also assume > that the pilot was not participating in the airshow itself and had just > flown in as a spectator. I also assume that he did not take off during the > waivered period. If these assumptions are correct, then I don't see how > EAA, as the airshow sponser, could be responsible, as they do not control > the airport during non-waivered time, and have no responsibility for airport > operations and services outside of the time the airshow is actually going > on. For all practical purposes, the pilot was simply taking off as he > probably has from many airports. In fact, I don't see how the EAA could be > responsible for providing any airport operation services to non-participants > of the airshow. Quite possibly the most cogent argument I've heard... anywhere.... ever.... about anything. Bob Collins ***** Even this situation isn't as simple as it may seem. There is a legal theory about an attractive nuisance. The EAA and Fly In operators created an attractive nuisance by publicizing and hold the fly in. But for the fly in, it's quite reasonable to expect that the accident pilot would never have flown into this airport. And, if he hadn't been at the airport, the accident could not have happened. Railroads crossings are held to be an attractive nuisance before the law, which automatically places a certain burden on them including train lighting, keeping the weeds cut away and other ordinary and necessary precautions because of the nuisance they created. The analogy is not a long stretch. Had there been no air show, there would have been no accident...at least at that time to that pilot. So, the fly in has a duty to provide general rule-of-the-road directions, instructions, parking area, flight line personnel to direct planes, wing walkers, et al. Absent these, chaos would reign (even more than usual). Fair? I don't know, but its intended to create a fair and safe playing field for all participants. Chuck Jensen ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:07:11 AM PST US From: "n801bh@netzero.com" Subject: Re: RV-List: Appeal: Testify for EAA etc... I will help too, but......... With that said the EAA had years to prepar e for this case. There were thousands who probably witnessed that event and they could have advertised in various publications for people to com e forward to testify about what they saw, response times,poor piloting s kills of the dead pilot, the whole thing, etc. Their legal team didn't d o their homework and got smoked by some defense lawyers who lined up tes timony they knew would sway the jury. From Tom P all the way down the la dder the EAA needs to do some soul searching before this happens again, and you know it will ............. IMHO.. do not archive Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com -- Darrell Reiley wrote: m> I'm sending in my letter to testify for the EAA defense on their appeal of this decision. I would hope many will follow and show your support. We all are experimental builders! Be responsible. We don't need to blame the EAA or fire department for not saving lives. Darrell Reiley RV7A QB Slider "Reiley Rocket" N622DR Reserved N469RV Reserved CenTex_RV_Aircraft-owner@yahoogroups.com Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check. Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta. ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== ===========

I will help too, but......... With that said the EAA had years to prepare for this case. There were thousands who probably witnessed th at event and they could have advertised in various publications for peop le to come forward to testify about what they saw, response times,poor p iloting skills of the dead pilot, the whole thing, etc. Their legal team didn't do their homework and got smoked by some defense lawyers wh o lined up testimony they knew would sway the jury. From Tom P all the w ay down the ladder the EAA needs to do some soul searching before this h appens again, and you know it will ............. IMHO..

do not archive


Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair .com

-- Darrell Reiley <lifeofreiley2003@yahoo. com> wrote:
--> RV-List message posted  ;by: Darrell Reiley <lifeofreiley2003@yahoo.com>

I'm sending in my letter to testify&n bsp;for the EAA
defense on their appeal  ;of this decision. I would hope
many wi ll follow and show your support. We a ll are
experimental builders! Be responsible.&nbs p;We don't need
to blame the EAA or&nbs p;fire department for not saving lives.

      Darrell Reiley
  R V7A QB Slider "Reiley Rocket"
  N622DR& nbsp; Reserved 
  N469RV  Reserved
& nbsp;  
  CenTex_RV_Aircraft-owner@yahoogroups.co m
   
  






  ;
Expecting? Get great news right away  with email Auto-Check. 
Try the Yahoo!  ======================== sp;         - The  = the many List utilities such as t ======================== ======================== sp;         - NEW  p;content now also available via the Web&n ======================== ===============
________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:29:43 AM PST US From: "Bob Collins" Subject: RE: RV-List: Appeal: Testify for EAA etc... Just curious. Has anyone who's gone to Arlington in the last 7 years noticed any difference in how it's staffed or conducted from the time this accident happened to today? Do not archive _____ From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of n801bh@netzero.com Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 8:05 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Appeal: Testify for EAA etc... I will help too, but......... With that said the EAA had years to prepare for this case. There were thousands who probably witnessed that event and they could have advertised in various publications for people to come forward to testify about what they saw, response times,poor piloting skills of the dead pilot, the whole thing, etc. Their legal team didn't do their homework and got smoked by some defense lawyers who lined up testimony they knew would sway the jury. From Tom P all the way down the ladder the EAA needs to do some soul searching before this happens again, and you know it will ............. IMHO.. do not archive Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com -- Darrell Reiley wrote: I'm sending in my letter to testify for the EAA defense on their appeal of this decision. I would hope many will follow and show your support. We all are experimental builders! Be responsible. We don't need to blame the EAA or fire department for not saving lives. Darrell Reiley RV7A QB Slider "Reiley Rocket" N622DR Reserved N469RV Reserved CenTex_RV_Aircraft-owner@yahoogroups.com Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check. Try the Yahoo! ========================sp; - The = the many List utilities such as t================================================sp; - NEW p;content now also available via the Web&n====================================== ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:31:56 AM PST US From: "Bob Collins" Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Why is it such a bad thing Does anyone have a picture of this? I would LOVE to see this RV! Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Springer Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 11:09 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Why is it such a bad thing Gary that woulds be Jerry Stephens in the John Deer RV-4 :-) He is from Independance, OR Jerry do not archive RV6 Flyer wrote: > > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > He did NOT build the airplane. > > Those of us that were on this list flying our airplanes when this > happened, had a discussion about the airplane having been just > purchased and the new owner's desire for TRANSITION TRAINING. > > I remember this accident. I waited at Harvey Airport with my airplane > and an RV-4 that was painted like a John Deere Tractor. The pilot of > the RV-4 wore a John Deere hat while he flew. We were just minutes > late arriving at Arlington. A few minutes sooner and we would have > landed right before the airport closed for the air show. I saw video > of the accident scene from a news hello while eating dinner at Harvey. > The RV-4 I was flying with did not have a transponder and we used my > transponder operating as a FLIGHT of two under the Bravo airspace. > > > Gary A. Sobek > "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell, > 1,976 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: Darrell Reiley > To: rv-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Why is it such a bad thing > Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 17:52:29 -0800 (PST) > > > > > And he built the plane KNOWING it was experimental and that he COULD > die in the plane. > > > Darrell Reiley > RV7A QB Slider "Reiley Rocket" > N622DR Reserved > N469RV Reserved > > CenTex_RV_Aircraft-owner@yahoogroups.com > > _________________________________________________________________ > Turn searches into helpful donations. Make your search count. > http://click4thecause.live.com/search/charity/default.aspx?source=hmem > tagline_donation&FORM=WLMTAG > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:14:31 AM PST US From: RV7AODYSSEY@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Appeal: Testify for EAA etc... Gentlemen, I have followed this thread with amusement, those on both sides. I am wondering about the taxi way accident at Oshkosh last year in which a passenger lost his life in an RV 6. I for one can understand crashes caused by pilot error, but I find it unacceptable that a pilot could lose his life while taxiing. The EAA seems to be adopting the stance , that an investigation into what happened is all that is necessary. Untill they express some outrage,that this could happen they will get no help from me. Ed ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:17:10 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV-List: Appeal: Testify for EAA etc... From: "Lloyd, Daniel R." With the way the system works, we are still about 5 years from anything happening with last year. The accident we are discussing now happened in '99, so sit back and relax and we will be talking about the TBM/RV incident in 2012 or so.... Dan _____ From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV7AODYSSEY@aol.com Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 10:13 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Appeal: Testify for EAA etc... Gentlemen, I have followed this thread with amusement, those on both sides. I am wondering about the taxi way accident at Oshkosh last year in which a passenger lost his life in an RV 6. I for one can understand crashes caused by pilot error, but I find it unacceptable that a pilot could lose his life while taxiing. The EAA seems to be adopting the stance , that an investigation into what happened is all that is necessary. Untill they express some outrage,that this could happen they will get no help from me. Ed ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:17:21 AM PST US From: "Tim Bryan" Subject: RE: RV-List: Appeal: Testify for EAA etc... Absolutely. Arlington adventure has declined drastically from everything of programs offered to trash pickup. I have no idea if this is related to the accident, I sort of doubt it, but you never know. I understand at one point the city pulled funding for the event, but reinstated it the next year. CAUTION*********** All of that was from my own observation or from comments heard at the event or street fair. Tim _____ From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Collins Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 8:29 AM Subject: RE: RV-List: Appeal: Testify for EAA etc... Just curious. Has anyone who's gone to Arlington in the last 7 years noticed any difference in how it's staffed or conducted from the time this accident happened to today? Do not archive _____ From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of n801bh@netzero.com Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 8:05 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Appeal: Testify for EAA etc... I will help too, but......... With that said the EAA had years to prepare for this case. There were thousands who probably witnessed that event and they could have advertised in various publications for people to come forward to testify about what they saw, response times,poor piloting skills of the dead pilot, the whole thing, etc. Their legal team didn't do their homework and got smoked by some defense lawyers who lined up testimony they knew would sway the jury. From Tom P all the way down the ladder the EAA needs to do some soul searching before this happens again, and you know it will ............. IMHO.. do not archive Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com -- Darrell Reiley wrote: I'm sending in my letter to testify for the EAA defense on their appeal of this decision. I would hope many will follow and show your support. We all are experimental builders! Be responsible. We don't need to blame the EAA or fire department for not saving lives. Darrell Reiley RV7A QB Slider "Reiley Rocket" N622DR Reserved N469RV Reserved CenTex_RV_Aircraft-owner@yahoogroups.com Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check. Try the Yahoo! ========================sp; - The = the many List utilities such as t=======================sp; - NEW p;content now also available via the Web&n============= href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/N avigator?RV-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:16:37 AM PST US From: "John Fasching" Subject: RV-List: Looking for a Certain Manufacturer I am trying to recall the name of a South African maker of digital instruments. Their products were originally aimed at the ultralight sector of aviation, but they have moved more into the mainstream now. Their products and/or perhaps their name was three letters, like MDL or MGC or somesuch...neither of these are correct. I can't recall or locate the company. Any suggestions would be appreciated. ' John ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:57:12 AM PST US From: "Larry E. James" Subject: RV-List: Why is it such a bad thing - was family of pilot awarded $10.5M Hi Mark and Bob and All, Since I was the one that called for "lynching the family" (and yes, this was meant figuratively); I will respond. In my mind we know enough about the situation (barring any extraordinary circumstances - of which none have come to light) to render a decision based on reason. The simple situation is that this pilot crashed his airplane and died as a result. No one else did anything extraordinarily right or wrong. I cannot reasonably see how the EAA or EAA-NW has any culpability in this persons' death at all. Period. In fact, it is darn fortunate that he did what he did at that place at that time; as there was more and better emergency equipment present than at any other time - which meant that he had the best chance of survival possible. So I leave sole responsibility with the pilot. I then skipped directly to the final point; that being my disapproval of the people involved with this lawsuit, and specifically the pilot's family. The lawsuit could not have been instigated nor continued without their acknowledgement and participation. This family, the attorneys, the judges, the jurors, and the politicians that uphold the set of "rules" that allowed this verdict to happen all "need to be lynched" - and I mean this figuratively). I stood up and called "bullshit" and I would be happy to address this family directly with my admonishment. Lest anyone think I am too calloused or whatever; I fully acknowledge the severity and sadness of this accident. The family's grief is completely in order and must be huge and I am sorry for their loss ..... but it does not give them a "by" to take $10.5M out of anyone else's pocket. Bob, I'm that guy, and if you want to say "shame on me" then consider it done. And I stand by what I said - even though I was a bit crude. I would rather seek principles and apply their decisions than find an easy outcome and justify that. I have watched this discourse and learned a bit. You, Mark, and others, have brought up good points. However no one has given me reason to sway my original premise. I did make a wrong statement in my original post that the cause was known to be the seatbelt around the pax stick. This has been shown to be incorrect and my mistake. It also has no effect on any of my reasoning - the crash was caused by pilot error. Until I heard about this verdict, I was not aware of any lawsuit; and I only knew about this accident 2nd hand. And here is how I looked at it: A relatively new pilot messed up at the Fly-In; stall/spin type accident near the runway; resulted in aircraft fire; really cool people nearby tried to help; emergency response was there darn quick; pilot died; people lost a husband, dad, friend, and more. And here I make some real assumptions: first that the person we lost was a great guy and the family and friends he left are equally great people (and I just-as-soon maintain this assumption). And the first responders are really great people too and how sad their efforts were in vain. And how cool is it that the Fly-In organizers had emergency procedures and people and equipment in place ?? And ultimately this pilot's accident resulted in his death .... very sad. What I have a hard time understanding is: how did this scenario of a smart guy making a mistake and a lot of good smart people working to help him turn into a lawsuit and then into the verdict that it did ???? If I ever make a mistake I can't think of a better place or around better people than pilots and specifically EAA Members - and that includes everyone on this list. DO NOT ARCHIVE Larry E. James Bellevue, WA I agree with the S/N suggestion .... even though it took me a while to figure out what he meant !!! ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:11:19 AM PST US From: ptrotter@optonline.net Subject: Re: RE: RV-List: Re: Why is it such a bad thing Chuck=2C I agree with you to some extent but I don=27t think the railroad compari son is valid=2E In the case of the railroad crossing=2C the railroad a dded something that was not there before and affected previous operation s=2E In the airshow case=2C normal airport operation take continued wit h respect to the operation of aircraft on take-off and that did not chan ge due to the airshow other than increased volume=2E If it was a towere d airport=2C it is ATC=27s responsibility to control aircraft on the gro und and in the air and for a non-towered airport=2C it is the pilot=27s responsibility=2E The airport and/or the airshow sponsor may have some responsibility to provide certain services such as crowd control and win g walking=2C but that responsibility ends when the plane takes the runwa y=2E Even at Oshkosh=2C direction and wing walking ends at a cetrain po int and ATC takes over=2E Even if the airport operator or the airshow s ponsor wanted to provide greater control there may not be able to as it might conflict with FAA rules=2E I agree that if it were not for the ai rshow=2C there would not have been an accident=2C but I believe that the airshow sponsors responibility ends when the plane takes the active run way=2E The airport operator=2C on the otherhand=2C may have some respon sibility to provide standard airport services such as emergency response =2E The issue comes down to whether those services should have been enh anced due to the greater number of planes using the airport at this time and who would be responsible for enhancing the service=2E Although I am not a lawyer=2C I would expect the attractive nuisance the ory to apply to negligence on the part of the entity creating the attrac tive nuisance=2C not negligence on the part someone attracted by that nu isance=2E This case =22seems=22 to be a case of negligence on the part of the pilot=2C although as Bob keeps stating=2C we don=27t have all the facts=2E Paul Do Not Archive ----- Original Message ----- From=3A Chuck Jensen Date=3A Friday=2C January 19=2C 2007 8=3A55 am Subject=3A RE=3A RV-List=3A Re=3A Why is it such a bad thing To=3A rv-list=40matronics=2Ecom =3E ***** =3E Even this situation isn=27t as simple as it may seem=2E There is a l egal =3E theory about an attractive nuisance=2E The EAA and Fly In operators =3E created an attractive nuisance by publicizing and hold the fly =3E in=2E But =3E for the fly in=2C it=27s quite reasonable to expect that the =3E accident pilot =3E would never have flown into this airport=2E And=2C if he hadn=27t =3E been at the =3E airport=2C the accident could not have happened=2E Railroads =3E crossings are =3E held to be an attractive nuisance before the law=2C which automatica lly =3E places a certain burden on them including train lighting=2C =3E keeping the =3E weeds cut away and other ordinary and necessary precautions =3E because of =3E the nuisance they created=2E The analogy is not a long stretch=2E Ha d =3E there been no air show=2C there would have been no accident=2E=2E=2E at =3E least at =3E that time to that pilot=2E So=2C the fly in has a duty to provide ge neral =3E rule-of-the-road directions=2C instructions=2C parking area=2C fligh t line =3E personnel to direct planes=2C wing walkers=2C et al=2E Absent these=2C chaos =3E would reign (even more than usual)=2E Fair=3F I don=27t know=2C but its =3E intended to create a fair and safe playing field for all participant s=2E =3E =3E Chuck Jensen =3E =3E ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:20:15 AM PST US Subject: RV-List: Re: Why is it such a bad thing - was family of pilot awarded $10 From: "Bob Collins" //However no one has given me reason to sway my original premise. Nobody's trying -- as near as I can tell -- to sway anyone's opinion.... unless the opinion is "I don't need any facts" to form one. (g) do not archive -------- Bob Collins St. Paul, Minn. RV Builder's Hotline (free!) http://rvhotline.expercraft.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=88930#88930 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 12:34:23 PM PST US From: Jerry Springer Subject: Re: RV-List: Appeal: Testify for EAA etc... I go every year and the only things I see different is that they are very adamant that if you are leaving before the show you be gone at least 15 minutes before show time. Airport is now closed 15 minutes before show, before if you were in the area you could land or takeoff almost right up to show time. I was one of the last ones to land that day. They were hurrying the departures because it was show time. Jerry do not archive Bob Collins wrote: > Just curious. Has anyone who's gone to Arlington in the last 7 years > noticed any difference in how it's staffed or conducted from the time > this accident happened to today? > > Do not archive > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > n801bh@netzero.com > Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 8:05 AM > To: rv-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: Appeal: Testify for EAA etc... > > I will help too, but......... With that said the EAA had years to > prepare for this case. There were thousands who probably witnessed > that event and they could have advertised in various publications for > people to come forward to testify about what they saw, response > times,poor piloting skills of the dead pilot, the whole thing, etc. > Their legal team didn't do their homework and got smoked by some > defense lawyers who lined up testimony they knew would sway the jury. > From Tom P all the way down the ladder the EAA needs to do some soul > searching before this happens again, and you know it > will ............. IMHO.. > > do not archive > > > Ben Haas > N801BH > www.haaspowerair.com > > -- Darrell Reiley wrote: > > I'm sending in my letter to testify for the EAA > defense on their appeal of this decision. I would hope > many will follow and show your support. We all are > experimental builders! Be responsible. We don't need > to blame the EAA or fire department for not saving lives. > > Darrell Reiley > RV7A QB Slider "Reiley Rocket" > N622DR Reserved > N469RV Reserved > > CenTex_RV_Aircraft-owner@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check. > Try the Yahoo! ========================sp; - The = the many List utilities such as t=======================sp; - NEW p;content now also available via the Web&n============= > > >href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List >href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 01:01:48 PM PST US From: Bob Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Why is it such a bad thing - was family of pilot awarded $10 > >//However no one has given me reason to sway my original premise. > >Nobody's trying -- as near as I can tell -- to sway anyone's opinion.... >unless the opinion is "I don't need any facts" to form one. You know, this is really pissing me off. Based upon the facts we do know, it is hard to justify the $10.5 award. The people who are defending the award do so by saying we do not know the facts to determine if the award is excessive. So what are the facts? Why are they being kept "TOP SECRET". Has our legal system devolved into a third word Fascist system where the government is always right and if you question, or ask for the facts that the decision was based upon, then you are not a "Patriot" and labeled a traitior?!!! Bob ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 01:10:41 PM PST US From: "Antoine Moulin" Subject: Re: RV-List: Looking for a Certain Manufacturer Hi, The name of the company is MGL Avionics. Antoine ----- Original Message ----- From: John Fasching To: rv-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 1:15 PM Subject: RV-List: Looking for a Certain Manufacturer I am trying to recall the name of a South African maker of digital instruments. Their products were originally aimed at the ultralight sector of aviation, but they have moved more into the mainstream now. Their products and/or perhaps their name was three letters, like MDL or MGC or somesuch...neither of these are correct. I can't recall or locate the company. Any suggestions would be appreciated. ' John ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- 18/01/2007 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 01:24:19 PM PST US From: "Randall E Russell" Subject: RV-List: Tip-up Canopy Drilling I searched the archives...but could not locate the info. I am ready to drill the screw holes in the C-603 canopy side skin. Some say that one should countersink the C-603 and screw through the canopy. Others seem to indicate that dimpling the C-603 is preferable with countersinking to be done on the canopy. The instructions and drawings are very lacking. Any experience on cracking issues would be appreciated. Randy C-FYOO ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 01:42:32 PM PST US Subject: RV-List: Re: Why is it such a bad thing - was family of pilot awarded $10 From: "Bob Collins" //You know, this is really pissing me off. //Based upon the facts we do know, it is hard to justify the $10.5 award. //The people who are defending the award do so by saying we do not //know the facts to determine if the award is excessive. I'm kinda hoping some of you are reading the plans and instructions in building your RV more closely than you're reading the messages in this thread. Not one SINGLE person -- not one -- in this debate has defended the award. Not one. Got it? What some of us are saying is: it's better -- much better -- to know the facts about something before rendering a judgment rather than NOT knowing the facts before rendering a judgement. But unfortunately, someone changed the name of the thread to "What so Bad -- $10 million judgement" to make it APPEAR that the question was "what's so bad about the $10 million judgment." They were quoting one of my posts which asked "what's so bad... about waiting to learn the facts in this case?" A question, by the way, that not a single person answered. Now, if you think that's screwed up logic, let me ask you this: Suppose the jury didn't listen to any testimony. Suppose it didn't look at any evidence. Suppose that -- as some people here have suggested -- they showed up with their preconceived notions and just said "give th widow the money." That would -- I think we can (and have) agree -- is a terrible, terrible way to run the court system. And it's EXACTLY the technique many of you have used in the court of public opinion. So what are the facts? Why are they being kept "TOP SECRET". Has our legal system devolved into a third word Fascist system where the government is always right and if you question, or ask for the facts that the decision was based upon, then you are not a "Patriot" and labeled a traitior?!!! Facts are the difference between knowledge and ignorance. I happen to like 'em. Bob -------- Bob Collins St. Paul, Minn. RV Builder's Hotline (free!) http://rvhotline.expercraft.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=88957#88957 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 02:08:43 PM PST US From: "William Gill" Subject: RE: RV-List: Tip-up Canopy Drilling Randy, Dimple the canopy side skin for rivet and screw locations Bill -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randall E Russell Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 3:21 PM Subject: RV-List: Tip-up Canopy Drilling I searched the archives...but could not locate the info. I am ready to drill the screw holes in the C-603 canopy side skin. Some say that one should countersink the C-603 and screw through the canopy. Others seem to indicate that dimpling the C-603 is preferable with countersinking to be done on the canopy. The instructions and drawings are very lacking. Any experience on cracking issues would be appreciated. Randy C-FYOO ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 02:22:32 PM PST US From: "Brian Meyette" Subject: RE: RV-List: Tip-up Canopy Drilling My C603 work starts on this page. I dimpled mine http://brian76.mystarband.net/CanopyDec04.htm#dec29 HTH, brian -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Randall E Russell Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 4:21 PM Subject: RV-List: Tip-up Canopy Drilling I searched the archives...but could not locate the info. I am ready to drill the screw holes in the C-603 canopy side skin. Some say that one should countersink the C-603 and screw through the canopy. Others seem to indicate that dimpling the C-603 is preferable with countersinking to be done on the canopy. The instructions and drawings are very lacking. Any experience on cracking issues would be appreciated. Randy C-FYOO -- 6:47 PM ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 02:42:04 PM PST US From: "LarryRobertHelming" Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Why is it such a bad thing - was family of pilot awarded $10 Why TOP SECRET??,,,,,, it is probably called confidentiality. The government has nothing to do with it. The lawyers will not violate the client - attorney relationship rights. The clients involved don't want others to know their going ons. I don't know the facts; I would like to however, but the effort and resources to understand it might be more commitment than I want to give it. The defendants can appeal if the settlement/award is felt to be excessive. They and the insurance companies have keen interest in this. I don't think it is final and over just yet. If it weren't for awards like this, I might suggest the cost to camp at EAA's AirVenture in Oshkosh would be $4 a night instead of $8. We, the right doers, are all paying. do not archive Indiana Larry ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Why is it such a bad thing - was family of pilot awarded $10 >> > > You know, this is really pissing me off. > > Based upon the facts we do know, it is hard to justify the $10.5 award. > The people who are defending the award do so by saying we do not know the > facts to determine if the award is excessive. > > So what are the facts? Why are they being kept "TOP SECRET". Has our > legal system devolved into a third word Fascist system where the > government is always right and if you question, or ask for the facts that > the decision was based upon, then you are not a "Patriot" and labeled a > traitior?!!! > > > Bob > > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 02:59:56 PM PST US From: "LarryRobertHelming" Subject: Re: RV-List: Tip-up Canopy Drilling The best way to minimize cracking is to spread the load over as wide an area as possible. Countersinking the plexi and dimpling the metal is the way to proceed. After the plexi is drilled using the special plexi drill bits and countersunk, use the next larger size bit to open the plexi holes up to minimize the contact of the bolts with the plexi. The canopy will be held by the angle of the plexi countersink and the dimpled skin rather than touching the bolt. Larry with SunSeeker in Indiana ----- Original Message ----- From: Randall E Russell To: RV-List Digest Server Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 3:21 PM Subject: RV-List: Tip-up Canopy Drilling I searched the archives...but could not locate the info. I am ready to drill the screw holes in the C-603 canopy side skin. Some say that one should countersink the C-603 and screw through the canopy. Others seem to indicate that dimpling the C-603 is preferable with countersinking to be done on the canopy. The instructions and drawings are very lacking. Any experience on cracking issues would be appreciated. Randy C-FYOO ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 03:32:36 PM PST US From: "Douglas Kohser" Subject: RE: RV-List: how to wire basic resistive Isspro fuel gauges Finally something other than this waste of bandwidth....sorry did I say that out loud....I have them somewhere, I will try to find them this weekend, scan them and send you a copy in an email.... I find myself in need of the wiring schematic for the Isspro fuel gauges that Van's sells - I think they're #8690, and am unable to find it at the company website or with Google. I need to know how the senders wire to the gauges and where the 12V and GND connections are made. Confession time: I have these gauges in my plane now, but have lost the old wiring diagram I drew at the time (which would have been an embarassment if it still existed, like the rat's nest behind my present panel). I need the info to design relevant parts of the diagram for the new electrical system. Thanks, -Bill B. ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 04:39:42 PM PST US From: "LarryRobertHelming" Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Why is it such a bad thing - was family of pilot awarded $10 Interesting, the NTSB report identifies the airport as S88 instead of AWO. Anyone know why that would be? do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob" Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 3:56 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Why is it such a bad thing - was family of pilot awarded $10 > > >> >>//However no one has given me reason to sway my original premise. >> >>Nobody's trying -- as near as I can tell -- to sway anyone's opinion.... >>unless the opinion is "I don't need any facts" to form one. > > You know, this is really pissing me off. > > Based upon the facts we do know, it is hard to justify the $10.5 award. > The people who are defending the award do so by saying we do not know the > facts to determine if the award is excessive. > > So what are the facts? Why are they being kept "TOP SECRET". Has our > legal system devolved into a third word Fascist system where the > government is always right and if you question, or ask for the facts that > the decision was based upon, then you are not a "Patriot" and labeled a > traitior?!!! > > > Bob > > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 05:06:07 PM PST US Subject: RV-List: Re: Why is it such a bad thing - was family of pilot awarded $ From: "Bob Collins" lhelming(at)sigecom.net wrote: > If it weren't for awards like this, I might > suggest the cost to camp at EAA's AirVenture in Oshkosh would be $4 a night > instead of $8. We, the right doers, are all paying. do not archive > > Indiana Larry > > --- I think it was $18 last year. But I think it was about $15 in 1999. Not unreasonable although I think the only way to control costs at AirVenture is to put the whole operation in the hands of that church that runs the brat stand over near the bus terminal. Soda and water for $1. Hot dogs and brats for $2!!! They know how to do it right!! (if only it were still a secret. Couldn't get close to the place last year.) do not archive -------- Bob Collins St. Paul, Minn. RV Builder's Hotline (free!) http://rvhotline.expercraft.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=89003#89003 ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 07:37:21 PM PST US From: "Bill Boyd" Subject: Re: RV-List: how to wire basic resistive Isspro fuel gauges Several others have already done so; I have a great sufficiency of schematics now. Thank you. do not archive On 1/19/07, Douglas Kohser wrote: > > Finally something other than this waste of bandwidth....sorry did I say that > out loud....I have them somewhere, I will try to find them this weekend, > scan them and send you a copy in an email.... > > I find myself in need of the wiring schematic for the Isspro fuel > gauges that Van's sells - I think they're #8690, and am unable to find > it at the company website or with Google. I need to know how the > senders wire to the gauges and where the 12V and GND connections are > made. > > Confession time: I have these gauges in my plane now, but have lost > the old wiring diagram I drew at the time (which would have been an > embarassment if it still existed, like the rat's nest behind my > present panel). I need the info to design relevant parts of the > diagram for the new electrical system. > > Thanks, > > -Bill B. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rv-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rv-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.