Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:22 AM - Re: Prop Bolts (Peter Mather)
2. 03:50 AM - Re: Prop Bolts (Brian Alley)
3. 05:00 AM - Re: Tank Vent problem (Stucklen, Frederic W UTPWR)
4. 05:08 AM - Re:Tank Vent problem (Stucklen, Frederic W UTPWR)
5. 05:48 AM - Re: Prop Bolts (John Porter)
6. 06:31 AM - Re: Re: Now you know why this is such B.S. (n801bh@netzero.com)
7. 06:45 AM - Re: Now you know why this is such B.S. (Bob Collins)
8. 06:53 AM - Re: Re: Aerobatics, Power Management (Bob)
9. 08:15 AM - Re: Fuel collecting in bottom of FAB (Dave B)
10. 08:48 AM - Re: Fuel collecting in bottom of FAB (Gerry Filby)
11. 09:03 AM - Re: Fuel collecting in bottom of FAB (Kyle Boatright)
12. 10:20 AM - Re: Fuel collecting in bottom of FAB (Gerry Filby)
13. 10:58 AM - Re: Fuel collecting in bottom of FAB (Jim Fogarty at Lakes & Leisure Realty)
14. 12:51 PM - new improved full swiveling tailwheel (Frazier, Vincent A)
15. 12:51 PM - Re: Fuel collecting in bottom of FAB (Dave B)
16. 07:33 PM - Help with Manifold Pressure tubing (Emrath)
17. 07:53 PM - Re: Help with Manifold Pressure tubing (Don Vs)
18. 10:06 PM - Re: [SoCAL-RVlist] Fuel collecting in bottom of FAB - FOUND IT ! (Gerry Filby)
Message 1
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Neil
Not quite sure what you mean. Vans states that the thickness of a wooden
prop should be 4 3/8" and to use spacers to make up the difference if
your prop is thinner (DWG C4). This ensures that the distance between
the spinner support plates is correct for the spinner profile. They sell
1/8" spacers ready cut and drilled. I'm using a Chris Lodge wooden prop
which is only 4" thick so am using 3 spacers between the prop and the
front spinner plate. Doing this the prop bolts are the correct length
and the spinner fits.
Hope this helps
best regards
Peter
----- Original Message -----
From: Neil-Fly
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 7:12 AM
Subject: RV-List: Prop Bolts
Listers
I'm having great difficulty in locating a source for a set of prop
bolts. I'm fitting a replacement second hand Colin Walker wooden prop
which has a boss that's thinner than the
original and used the standard bolts supplied by Vans. Can anyone
direst me to a source/supplier. I've tried Spruce and Wicks without
luck. I've also tried Colin Walker but can't locate him, would anyone
have his contact details. I need bolts with an overall length of 7 =BE"
may be someone has a set to sell.
Neil Henderson RV9A G-CCZT
Message 2
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Neil, Check with Saber Manufacturing, same people that make prop extensions. http://www.geocities.com/sabermfg/index.html
BRIAN ALLEY (N320WT)
CARBON FIBER COMPOSITES
101 Caroline Circle
Hurricane, WV 25526
www.carbonfibercomposites.net
304-562-6800 home
304-395-4932 cell
How are you going to win by a nose if you don't stick out your neck?
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Tank Vent problem |
Done properly, there is little chance that the plastic flapper idea
on the gas can would result in something else ending up in the
fuel system. Even if it did fall off, there is little chance that it
would
make it past the strainers in both the tip tank pickup or the main tank
pickup. And the hole would be to small (and restricted by the flapper)
to allow water in.
An examination of the Piper gas caps, and their lack of problems
might make you feel better about this idea....
Fred Stucklen
RV-6A N926RV 703 Hrs
Okay, I'll bite. The little plastic flapper with Pro-seal idea
makes me
nervous. I can see a small piece of plastic winding up somewhere
in the
fuel system. If proper precautions are taken it might work okay,
but be
sure that the solution is not worse than the problem.
The holes in the caps are going to let water in too. You need to
deal
with that somehow.
Godspeed,
Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas
RV-7 N727WB
http://www.myrv7.com <http://www.myrv7.com/>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re:Tank Vent problem |
Good points.
Fred Stucklen
RV-6A N926RV 703 hrs
Just keep in mind that tank vents should not inhibit the ex-hale
requirements of the air volume in the tank. My vents are close to
static
(perpendicular to longitudinal axis), No real need to point them
forward as
they very often are because they need to breath out when climbing.
(Pitt's
point them backwards to keep bugs and debris from entering the
vent system).
If tanks are, let's say half full of fuel and you are climbing,
there is a
lot of air expansion taking place and the vents are exhaling a lot
of air.
Just things to keep in mind. The tanks need to breathe in when
coming down
and they need to breathe out when climbing. The fuller the tank
will mean
less air has to escape but as fuel is used up the air volume
Increases and so the greater need for a good vent.
My situation is like most RV's. Low wing, pumped fuel.
Gravity flow systems will need its own study.
Just my own ideas.
Phil in Illinois
Message 5
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Neil,
When it comes to prop bolts and extensions, Saber IS the place! He
designed an extension for my -8 (aerobatic prop with counterweights so
van's spinner doesn't fit) that is an absolute work of art. Don't have
names in front of me, but great operation. He will give you information
on how to do it the right way.
John
#80002
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Now you know why this is such B.S. |
Some of you guys seem to be missing the boat here. The EAA and the local
Arlington chapter were sued, the EAA I am sure helped pay for the legal
team. All records. transcripts and all other BS should be available to
the EAA, they DID pay once for it, and as paying members of the EAA we a
re due this info. I nominate Bob Collins to contact the EAA in Osh and h
ave them make available ALL info so every chapter can make an informed d
ecision on whether to hold a fly in or not.....
do not archive
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
-- "Bob Collins" <bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net> wrote:
The lawsuit is a matter of public record. We just have to organize a bit
to get ahold of the documents in the case to be able to answer the ques
tions posed.
I've had a couple of lawyers (RVers and members of the list) offer to he
lp me in this and I intend to take them up on their offer). It's also a
matter of $$ to pay for obtaining the documents.
BTW, the title of this thread further exaccerbates what one might -- rig
htly or wrongly -- conclude was an attempt to obscure the original poin
t which was -- to repeat myself AGAIN -- "what is waiting to get the inf
ormation before judging the case a bad thing?"
I'm not sure what the motive behind that such a thing would be.
But *I* intend to get the fact before *I* decide what *I* think about th
e case. What you do is up to you.
Do not archive.
--------
Bob Collins
St. Paul, Minn.
RV Builder's Hotline (free!)
http://rvhotline.expercraft.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=89562#89562
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<html><P>Some of you guys seem to be missing the boat here. The EAA and
the local Arlington chapter were sued, the EAA I am sure helped pay for
the legal team. All records. transcripts and all other BS should be avai
lable to the EAA, they DID pay once for it, and as paying members of the
EAA we are due this info. I nominate Bob Collins to contact the EA
A in Osh and have them make available ALL info so every chapter can make
an informed decision on whether to hold a fly in or not.....</P>
<P>do not archive<BR><BR><BR>Ben Haas<BR>N801BH<BR>www.haaspowerair
.com<BR><BR>-- "Bob Collins" <bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net
> wrote:<BR>--> RV-List message posted by
: "Bob Collins" <bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net><BR><BR>T
he lawsuit is a matter of public reco
rd. We just have to organize a bit&nb
sp;to get ahold of the documents in t
he case to be able to answer the 
;questions posed. <BR><BR>I've had a couple&nbs
p;of lawyers (RVers and members of the&nbs
p;list) offer to help me in this and&
nbsp;I intend to take them up on thei
r offer). It's also a matter of $$&nb
sp;to pay for obtaining the documents.<BR><BR>B
TW, the title of this thread further
exaccerbates what one might -- rightly or&
nbsp;wrongly -- conclude was an attempt&n
bsp;to obscure the original point which wa
s -- to repeat myself AGAIN -- "what&
nbsp;is waiting to get the information bef
ore judging the case a bad thing?"<BR><BR>
I'm not sure what the motive behind t
hat such a thing would be.<BR><BR>But *I*&
nbsp;intend to get the fact before *I*&nbs
p;decide what *I* think about the case.&nb
sp; What you do is up to you.<BR><BR>
Do not archive.<BR><BR>--------<BR>Bob Collins<BR>St.&nbs
p;Paul, Minn.<BR>RV Builder's Hotline (free!)<BR>htt
p://rvhotline.expercraft.com<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>Read this topi
c online here:<BR><BR>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.ph
========================
========================
Use the Matronics List Features Navigator
;Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse,&n
========================
Same great content now also available&nbs
========================
========================
<BR></P>
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre></body></html>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Now you know why this is such B.S. |
I appreciate the honor of nomination but I don't work that way. I've been in the
news business for 30 years. I go to the source (the court) for the information.
I go to the participants for THEIR translation. First stop, Snohomish County.
It's still not even clear to me, yet, whether it was the judge or the jury that
decided the amount.
Do not archive
--------
Bob Collins
St. Paul, Minn.
RV Builder's Hotline (free!)
http://rvhotline.expercraft.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=89729#89729
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Aerobatics, Power Management |
Alan Cassidy wrote a good book called "Better Aerobatics". He discusses
power management in great detail. Basically he states maintain max power
at all times (I think he is talking mainly about competition aerobatics
where energy management is much more critical than in fun aerobatics where
if you run out of energy, take a break and get it back, not suppose to do
that in competition). In an purpose designed aerobatic machine this makes
sense. But I find in the RV during a downline, if I use full power it is a
very short downline, hard to get one vertical roll, let alone more on the
vertical downline. That RV can really accelerate going downhill. To make
the RV a better aerobatic machine, it needs more drag built in.
If you have a constant speed prop it is not too much of a problem as the
prop will act somewhat as a brake, but with a fixed pitch prop, I reduce
power whenever in a vertical downline. As for loops, on the backside I
sometimes reduce power, or will maintain max power if the next maneuver
requires a lot of energy, i.e. a hammerhead. For a Split S enter at
or below entry speed (I use 100 KTS), if you use full power, then use more
G to keep the speed below Vne, if you retard the power, then use less G to
complete the maneuver. Alan Cassidy discusses this strategy in his book.
As far as shock cooling and all that stuff. My TBO is 2000 hours non
aerobatic, or 1200 hours aerobatic. Aerobatics are hard on the
engine. Dick Rihn (father of: Dan Rihn, designer of the Aerobatic One
Design) told me once that snap rolls and tailslides are real hard on the
crankshaft. I believe him, and I do not routinely do either. I don't mean
to start a controversy about this, but he is a much more experience
aerobatic pilot that I and I would be foolish not to heed his comments.
People sometimes tell me that there is no such thing as light IFR. I do
not do IFR, but I sometimes think there is no such thing as light
aerobatics (gentleman aerobatics). They tell me they will never do a 6G
maneuver and I answer, would you do a 6G pullout to avoid going Vne, or
impacting the earth?
A well planned and executed aerobatic maneuver is so easy to do if done
right, if done wrong it is the most gut wrenching difficult thing you can
imagine. An example, for a slow roll (used in many aerobatic maneuvers,
cuban, immelman etc.) you use top rudder when in a 90 degree roll
attitude. But, if you get confused on what will be the top rudder (like in
a cuban 8) and you use bottom rudder by mistake, then this gentleman
maneuver becomes aishow exciting.
Of course Charlie in your case, I am preaching to the choir. BTW, my
sister was a former T-37 instructor pilot.
Bob
>I'm an old fighter pilot and former spin instructor in the T-37.
>Consequently, I have little fear of aerobatics and/or spins, erect or
>inverted. I do realize the RV is not a hard acro bird, and don't plan
>anything other than gentlemen's aerobatics. However, all my
>experience is (was) in jets and I've done very limited acro in a
>conventional powered airplane.
>
>My questions pertain to power management doing acro in an RV (or any
>conventionally powered airplane for that matter.) What does one do
>with engine power in a loop or split S? Any difference between fixed
>and constant speed props? Should I be concerned about shock cooling
>while doing acro? I'm really talking about planned power changes and
>not emergency power reduction because the nose is buried and the
>speed is approaching Vne.
>
>Can anyone recommend a book regarding conventional aerobatics?
>
>Charlie Brame
>RV-6A N11CB
>San Antonio
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel collecting in bottom of FAB |
So why did you smell fuel on climb out? I can't see why shutdown would
have anything to do with fumes in the cockpit when flying.
Dave
Gerry Filby wrote:
> I was busy climbing out of the pattern this morning when I began to
> smell fuel inside the cabin. First glitch that's caused me to do a
> 180 and get straight back on the ground, nervously fingering the fuel
> shut off.
>
> Fuel is collecting in the bottom of the FAB (AFP fuel injection,
> vertical induction on an Aerosport IO-320). Talking to Don at AFP its
> normal to have a little fuel dribble back down the intake pipes as the
> injector lines get heated up after shutdown - only place for the fuel
> to go is the cylinder head and down the intake tubes.
>
> Any of you guys out there running the AFP setup on an IO-320 ? Have
> you had similar experiences ? Did you fit a drain tube to the bottom
> of the FAB to dump the excess overboard ? I see some (Dan C) fitting
> a "sniffle valve" on the bottom of the IO-360, doesn't seem to be an
> option on the IO-320.
>
> g
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel collecting in bottom of FAB |
This is still an open question - my original supposition was that the fue
l that was collecting after shutdown was leaking out of the drain hole in
the bottom of the FAB and soaking into the bottom of the cowling. During
climbout the exhausts would warm up the cowling and the fuel evaporates.
Others have commented that this is not likely the source of the odor and
have relayed experiences when the tanks are overfull and the sun warms t
hem up - fuel gets into the vent line which can lead to odor in the cabin
.
So my course of action is going to be:
- run tube to dump the gas collecting in the FAB overboard so it doesn't
stay inside the cowling
- don't overfill the tanks so there's some expansion space.
I'll report back on how things develop.
g
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Dave B [mailto:dbris200@sbcglobal.net]
>Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 08:14 AM
>To: rv-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel collecting in bottom of FAB
>
>
>So why did you smell fuel on climb out? I can't see why shutdown would
>have anything to do with fumes in the cockpit when flying.
>
>Dave
>
>Gerry Filby wrote:
>> I was busy climbing out of the pattern this morning when I began to
>> smell fuel inside the cabin. First glitch that's caused me to do a
>> 180 and get straight back on the ground, nervously fingering the fuel
>> shut off.
>>
>> Fuel is collecting in the bottom of the FAB (AFP fuel injection,
>> vertical induction on an Aerosport IO-320). Talking to Don at AFP its
>> normal to have a little fuel dribble back down the intake pipes as the
>> injector lines get heated up after shutdown - only place for the fuel
>> to go is the cylinder head and down the intake tubes.
>>
>> Any of you guys out there running the AFP setup on an IO-320 ? Have
>> you had similar experiences ? Did you fit a drain tube to the bottom
>> of the FAB to dump the excess overboard ? I see some (Dan C) fitting
>> a "sniffle valve" on the bottom of the IO-360, doesn't seem to be an
>> option on the IO-320.
>>
>> g
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel collecting in bottom of FAB |
I have seen minor weeps around the fuel selector valve. This causes a
noticeable smell in the cockpit. The quantity of fuel is very small,
not even a drop or two, but it does catch your attention.
Is there any chance that your cockpit fuel smell is caused by a leak
inside the cockpit, rather than something in front of the firewall?
KB
>
>Gerry Filby wrote:
>> I was busy climbing out of the pattern this morning when I began to
>> smell fuel inside the cabin. First glitch that's caused me to do a
>> 180 and get straight back on the ground, nervously fingering the
fuel
>> shut off.
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel collecting in bottom of FAB |
=EF=BB Absolutely possible (although I have already searched around th
e fuel selector and high pressure pump). Since I've reached the 10 hour m
ark on the engine and airframe I'm going to take the opportunity this wee
kend to repeat my condition inspection and make sure that nothing has rat
tled loose.
g
-----Original Message-----
From: Kyle Boatright [mailto:kboatright1@comcast.net]
Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 09:01 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel collecting in bottom of FAB
I have seen minor weeps around the fuel selector valve. This causes a not
iceable smell in the cockpit. The quantity of fuel is very small, not eve
n a drop or two, but it does catch your attention.
Is there any chance that your cockpit fuel smell is caused by a leak insi
de the cockpit, rather than something in front of the firewall?
KB
>
>Gerry Filby wrote:
>> I was busy climbing out of the pattern this morning when I began to
>> smell fuel inside the cabin. First glitch that's caused me to do a
>> 180 and get straight back on the ground, nervously fingering the fuel
>> shut off.
========================_
=====
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel collecting in bottom of FAB |
Guys, what do we use to seal all the fittings in the RV from the pitot
tube, fuel lines, brake line, etc? Thanks.
Jim Fogarty
----- Original Message -----
From: Kyle Boatright
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 11:01 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel collecting in bottom of FAB
I have seen minor weeps around the fuel selector valve. This causes a
noticeable smell in the cockpit. The quantity of fuel is very small,
not even a drop or two, but it does catch your attention.
Is there any chance that your cockpit fuel smell is caused by a leak
inside the cockpit, rather than something in front of the firewall?
KB
>
>Gerry Filby wrote:
>> I was busy climbing out of the pattern this morning when I began
to
>> smell fuel inside the cabin. First glitch that's caused me to do
a
>> 180 and get straight back on the ground, nervously fingering the
fuel
>> shut off.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
1/23/2007 11:04 AM
Message 14
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| Subject: | new improved full swiveling tailwheel |
I apologize to those who consider this type of email to be spam.
However, many of you with heavier RVs or Rockets will benefit immensely
from this new improved full swiveling tailwheel.
I won't bore you with details, but if you're not happy with the sloppy
response from your stock Van's type tailwheel, if you've ever snagged it
on uneven pavement (crunch!), or if you just want a tailwheel that can
actually accommodate a tailwheel pant.... this is for you.
http://www.vincesrocket.com/products.htm
Vince Frazier
http://vincesrocket.com
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel collecting in bottom of FAB |
Also check the tanks themselves for seepage as that smell will get into
the cockpit too. Take a close look at the bottom of the wings towards
the root for blue stains.
Dave
Gerry Filby wrote:
>
> Absolutely possible (although I have already searched around the fuel
> selector and high pressure pump). Since I've reached the 10 hour mark
> on the engine and airframe I'm going to take the opportunity this
> weekend to repeat my condition inspection and make sure that nothing
> has rattled loose.
>
> g
>
> -----Original Message-----
> *From:* Kyle Boatright [mailto:kboatright1@comcast.net]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 23, 2007 09:01 AM
> *To:* rv-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: RV-List: Fuel collecting in bottom of FAB
>
> I have seen minor weeps around the fuel selector valve. This
> causes a noticeable smell in the cockpit. The quantity of fuel is
> very small, not even a drop or two, but it does catch your attention.
>
> Is there any chance that your cockpit fuel smell is caused by a
> leak inside the cockpit, rather than something in front of the
> firewall?
>
> KB
>
>
> >
> >Gerry Filby wrote:
> >> I was busy climbing out of the pattern this morning when I
> began to
> >> smell fuel inside the cabin. First glitch that's caused me
> to do a
> >> 180 and get straight back on the ground, nervously
> fingering the fuel
> >> shut off.
>
>
>
> *
>
> get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
> http://forums.matronics.com
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 16
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| Subject: | Help with Manifold Pressure tubing |
While surfing around the net, I recently saw someone's pictures of how they
modified a AN832 bulkhead type fitting to accept a fitting from McMaster
Carr for connection with barbed fitting to the MAP gage tubing. Great idea
I'd like to copy, but I can't seem to find the source. Can anyone point me
to the pictures/article about this?
Do not archive.
Marty
Message 17
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| Subject: | Help with Manifold Pressure tubing |
I think you are talking about the way Dan C and others, (me) show it on our
web sites. The fitting is the stock fitting grom Van's
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Emrath
Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 7:31 PM
Subject: RV-List: Help with Manifold Pressure tubing
While surfing around the net, I recently saw someone's pictures of how they
modified a AN832 bulkhead type fitting to accept a fitting from McMaster
Carr for connection with barbed fitting to the MAP gage tubing. Great idea
I'd like to copy, but I can't seem to find the source. Can anyone point me
to the pictures/article about this?
Do not archive.
Marty
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: [SoCAL-RVlist] Fuel collecting in bottom of FAB - FOUND |
IT !
Well I think I've found the source of the odor. There's an obvious fuel
stain running aft from the right tank drain fitting on the underside of t
he cabin. It runs all the way back to the tooling hole that the tri-gear
folks use to locate their brake lines. I don't have anything on the floor
in the cabin yet, so I'll bet that's where the gas/odor was coming in.
Someone mentioned that this is a possibility if you fill the tanks to the
top. I guess I'll have to be a little more careful when I go to the pump
next time.
Well that's a load off .... a million thanks to everyone who contributed
to my nervous debugging :-)
g
-----Original Message-----
From: mark936@webtv.net [mailto:mark936@webtv.net]
Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 09:10 PM
Subject: Re: [SoCAL-RVlist] Fuel collecting in bottom of FAB
On the horizontals
Some people drill a small hole in the bottom of the FAB so that fuel or
water can run out the bottom and NOT liquid lock the engine.
i.e. John Harmon was up at a Northern CA or Oregon fly in and after a
hard rain overnight his plane wouldn't start or crank.
He drilled a small hole and tons of water ran out. IIRC
i.e. Or, if the mixture shut off isn't 100 percent tight, fuel can run
if there during boost and liquid lock an engine unless there is a drain
hole.
Also, maybe a gasolator leak on the firewall?
FWIW
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