---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 01/27/07: 14 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:40 AM - Re: Phase I flight area (Tom & Cathy Ervin) 2. 04:51 AM - Re: Phase I flight area (RV6 Flyer) 3. 08:58 AM - Mattituck Buying Experience (REHughes) 4. 09:05 AM - Re: Phase I flight area (Konrad L. Werner) 5. 09:12 AM - Re: Phase I flight area (Konrad L. Werner) 6. 09:18 AM - Re: Mattituck Buying Experience (Paul Rice) 7. 10:03 AM - Re: Phase I flight area (Tom & Cathy Ervin) 8. 10:23 AM - Re: Phase I flight area (Tim Bryan) 9. 10:28 AM - Re: Phase I flight area (Konrad L. Werner) 10. 12:29 PM - Re: Mattituck Buying Experience (Dave & Brenda Emond) 11. 01:59 PM - Indemnifying a seller (Henry) 12. 05:17 PM - Re: Indemnifying a seller (LarryRobertHelming) 13. 05:50 PM - Re: Indemnifying a seller (George P. Tyler) 14. 06:16 PM - Indemnifying a seller (John Fasching) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:40:41 AM PST US From: "Tom & Cathy Ervin" Subject: Re: RV-List: Phase I flight area I got a 100 mile circle from my Cleveland FSDO and was glad I did! My RV6-A was doing 155 Knots at 75% squared...no wheel pants or gear leg fairings. With 11 miles I would be doing turns around a point!! Tom in Ohio ----- Original Message ----- From: Ron Lee To: rv-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 2:52 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Phase I flight area At 10:10 AM 1/26/2007, you wrote: I had an 11-mile square. It was PLENTY of space. Anybody who doesn't like turning shouldn't be building an RV... ;-) Got to disagree with that viewpoint Dan. 11 miles where I live doesn't get you to but one other airport. Save the 11 mile area for an ultralight but an RV needs more room. Ron Lee ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:51:36 AM PST US From: "RV6 Flyer" Subject: Re: RV-List: Phase I flight area FAA Order 8130.2 is the Order by which the FAA (DAR) are required to use for Airworthiness Certification. As of July 2006, 8130.2F Change 2 is current. http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgOrders.nsf/0/18b1d64bc8f90136862571d40072d8e1/$FILE/Order%208130F%20with%20chg%202%20incorporated.pdf (may need to copy paste the link to one line.) Section 152 on page 160 has the REQUIREMENTS for "FLIGHT TEST AREAS" of Amateur Built Experimental Aircraft. FROM THE ABOVE REVERENCED DOCUMENT: "a. General. Section 91.319(b) requires that an unproven aircraft be assigned to a flight test area. The assigned test area is prescribed in accordance with 91.305. The FAA, when requested, should assist applicants in selecting areas that comply with 91.305. The FAA is required to evaluate each application to determine that the flight test area does not exceed that which is reasonably required to accomplish the program. Actions pertaining to flight test areas must be coordinated with the nearest office of the Air Traffic Service." Since FAR 91.305 is referenced above, here is what it says: "Sec. 91.305 Flight test areas. No person may flight test an aircraft except over open water, or sparsely populated areas, having light air traffic." http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library%5CrgFAR.nsf/0/45980FAAA23BA129852566CF0067BB5C?OpenDocument IMHO, if you have a WRITTEN "Flight Test Plan", include the detailed "Flight Test Plan" with your application for airworthiness, and it documents the need for a test flight area larger than you receive, you need to bring this info to the FAA's (or DAR's) attention. Gary A. Sobek RVdar.com "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell, 1,976 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA _________________________________________________________________ Valentines Day -- Shop for gifts that spell L-O-V-E at MSN Shopping http://shopping.msn.com/content/shp/?ctId=8323,ptnrid=37,ptnrdata=24095&tcode=wlmtagline ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:58:06 AM PST US From: "REHughes" Subject: RV-List: Mattituck Buying Experience Last fall I pulled the jugs off my Skyote's C-90-8F (stuck ring, and guides needed reamed) and I found one of the cam followers had a wedding-ring fracture at the socket end. I decided to have the engine overhauled by a good shop, but found that for virtually the same price, I could get a brand-new Mattituck TMX O-200 (although it is an Experimental engine, it is built up from the latest Continental certified parts). It came with all the recent factory production improvements (removable pushrod housings, new upper cylinder design) and beautiful new certified accessories including a light-weight starter, 60 Amp Alternator, Vacuum Pump drive assembly, new Precision Carb (complete with new airbox and filter) and new Slicks. The shipping crate had an all-plywood cover, and is better looking than most of my furniture. The price was 17K, with NO core required. I will slowly rebuild the C-90 as a learning process. The Mixture Arm configuration was set up for side-to-side actuation, and my particular installation made the fore-and-aft arm the preferred type. I emailed Mahlon to find out where I could buy the alternate arm, and a couple days later the desired hardware just showed up in my mail. I would recommend Mattituck for anyone considering a new engine. My experience with them could not have been better. Mahlon Russell should be considered a national treasure. Hawkeye Hughes Skyote, RV-3 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:05:29 AM PST US From: "Konrad L. Werner" Subject: Re: RV-List: Phase I flight area Well Joe, Where you able to fly your time off anyway, regardless of the sucky one? What did you have to do, fly a slight but constant circle? I wish that I knew more about this before I flew my time off. My DAR sucked. Thanks Joe @BFI 420 hours do not archive ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:12:21 AM PST US From: "Konrad L. Werner" Subject: Re: RV-List: Phase I flight area Tom, How does on square 75% power? I can somewhat understand on how to square RPM+MP to achieve 75% Power as a result, but how do you square the percentage itself? Perhaps I am somewhat math challenged, but I am eager to learn and understand... do not archive I got a 100 mile circle from my Cleveland FSDO and was glad I did! My RV6-A was doing 155 Knots at 75% squared...no wheel pants or gear leg fairings. With 11 miles I would be doing turns around a point!! Tom in Ohio ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:18:39 AM PST US From: "Paul Rice" Subject: Re: RV-List: Mattituck Buying Experience Ditto ----- Original Message ----- From: REHughes To: rv-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 11:56 AM Subject: RV-List: Mattituck Buying Experience Skyote, RV-3 http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:03:38 AM PST US From: "Tom & Cathy Ervin" Subject: Re: RV-List: Phase I flight area I'm running an 0-360A1A with Hartzell and according to my Lycoming Operations Manual and factory cell test 75% power is 24 lbs. manifold pressure at 2400 RPM. Square is the term used by Lycoming so I give up. Sorry not much Help. Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: Konrad L. Werner To: rv-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 12:11 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Phase I flight area Tom, How does on square 75% power? I can somewhat understand on how to square RPM+MP to achieve 75% Power as a result, but how do you square the percentage itself? Perhaps I am somewhat math challenged, but I am eager to learn and understand... do not archive I got a 100 mile circle from my Cleveland FSDO and was glad I did! My RV6-A was doing 155 Knots at 75% squared...no wheel pants or gear leg fairings. With 11 miles I would be doing turns around a point!! Tom in Ohio ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:23:17 AM PST US From: "Tim Bryan" Subject: RE: RV-List: Phase I flight area Ok, with the same configuration what would be 65% power? Would love to know. Tim _____ From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom & Cathy Ervin Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 12:02 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Phase I flight area I'm running an 0-360A1A with Hartzell and according to my Lycoming Operations Manual and factory cell test 75% power is 24 lbs. manifold pressure at 2400 RPM. Square is the term used by Lycoming so I give up. Sorry not much Help. Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: Konrad L. Werner Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 12:11 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Phase I flight area Tom, How does on square 75% power? I can somewhat understand on how to square RPM+MP to achieve 75% Power as a result, but how do you square the percentage itself? Perhaps I am somewhat math challenged, but I am eager to learn and understand... do not archive I got a 100 mile circle from my Cleveland FSDO and was glad I did! My RV6-A was doing 155 Knots at 75% squared...no wheel pants or gear leg fairings. With 11 miles I would be doing turns around a point!! Tom in Ohio href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/N avigator?RV-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:28:43 AM PST US From: "Konrad L. Werner" Subject: Re: RV-List: Phase I flight area Tom, Got it!!! One can square RPM & MP to arrive at a certain percentage of Power. What threw me off is your statement of "75% squared" (which is impossible I think)? One can square RPM with MP, but not %. Do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom & Cathy Ervin To: rv-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 11:02 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Phase I flight area I'm running an 0-360A1A with Hartzell and according to my Lycoming Operations Manual and factory cell test 75% power is 24 lbs. manifold pressure at 2400 RPM. Square is the term used by Lycoming so I give up. Sorry not much Help. Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: Konrad L. Werner To: rv-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 12:11 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Phase I flight area Tom, How does on square 75% power? I can somewhat understand on how to square RPM+MP to achieve 75% Power as a result, but how do you square the percentage itself? Perhaps I am somewhat math challenged, but I am eager to learn and understand... do not archive I got a 100 mile circle from my Cleveland FSDO and was glad I did! My RV6-A was doing 155 Knots at 75% squared...no wheel pants or gear leg fairings. With 11 miles I would be doing turns around a point!! Tom in Ohio href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics. com/Navigator?RV-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 12:29:16 PM PST US From: "Dave & Brenda Emond" Subject: Re: RV-List: Mattituck Buying Experience I support your view. My purchase of a TMX IO-540 went without a hitch. Mahlon has given terriffic support, beyond expectation. Thanks Mahlon. Dave Emond RV-10 40159 ----- Original Message ----- From: REHughes To: rv-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 6:56 PM Subject: RV-List: Mattituck Buying Experience Last fall I pulled the jugs off my Skyote's C-90-8F (stuck ring, and guides needed reamed) and I found one of the cam followers had a wedding-ring fracture at the socket end. I decided to have the engine overhauled by a good shop, but found that for virtually the same price, I could get a brand-new Mattituck TMX O-200 (although it is an Experimental engine, it is built up from the latest Continental certified parts). It came with all the recent factory production improvements (removable pushrod housings, new upper cylinder design) and beautiful new certified accessories including a light-weight starter, 60 Amp Alternator, Vacuum Pump drive assembly, new Precision Carb (complete with new airbox and filter) and new Slicks. The shipping crate had an all-plywood cover, and is better looking than most of my furniture. The price was 17K, with NO core required. I will slowly rebuild the C-90 as a learning process. The Mixture Arm configuration was set up for side-to-side actuation, and my particular installation made the fore-and-aft arm the preferred type. I emailed Mahlon to find out where I could buy the alternate arm, and a couple days later the desired hardware just showed up in my mail. I would recommend Mattituck for anyone considering a new engine. My experience with them could not have been better. Mahlon Russell should be considered a national treasure. Hawkeye Hughes Skyote, RV-3 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:59:09 PM PST US From: Henry Subject: RV-List: Indemnifying a seller Good afternoon: A friend and I were looking at buying a homebuilt from the original builder. We had no problem with signing a waiver of non responsibility for ourselves, but the owner insisted on an indemnity clause in perpetuity asking us to be responsible for any liability from the day of the sale until the end of the plane's life. EAA insurance said such a clause would negate our coverage. I believe Falcon said the same thing. While I can understand the seller's need and desire to protect himself, this is an impossible responsibility financial or otherwise for the buyer. Needless to say it was a deal killer. How are all of you out there dealing with situation like this, or more likely, how do you think you will deal with it if you ever sell your pride and joy in the future. Henry H. Mooney 252TSE N252MK KPAE Everett, WA > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 05:17:52 PM PST US From: "LarryRobertHelming" Subject: Re: RV-List: Indemnifying a seller The question is: "How could a plane be sold to limit the liability and litigation trail back to the original seller?" One possible solution is to dismantle the plane into tail assemblies, wing and tank assemblies, and one or more fuselage assemblies. Sell it that way and the buyer is responsible for the subassembly parts and not it becoming anything else. You should have its air worthiness certificate revoked/voided. The new buyer of the assemblies would go through the process of re-registering it should some or all the of the parts later become a plane or parts on several planes. A sales agreement would state the parts are just that -- parts, not a completed assembly of anything that serves a purpose such as an airplane and if it is made into one, the parts buyer is fully responsible for whatever is made of them. Larry in Indiana ----- Original Message ----- From: "Henry" Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 3:57 PM Subject: RV-List: Indemnifying a seller > > > Good afternoon: > > A friend and I were looking at buying a homebuilt from the original > builder. We had no problem with signing a waiver of non responsibility for > ourselves, but the owner insisted on an indemnity clause in perpetuity > asking us to be responsible for any liability from the day of the sale > until the end of the plane's life. EAA insurance said such a clause would > negate our coverage. I believe Falcon said the same thing. > While I can understand the seller's need and desire to protect himself, > this is an impossible responsibility financial or otherwise for the buyer. > Needless to say it was a deal killer. > How are all of you out there dealing with situation like this, or more > likely, how do you think you will deal with it if you ever sell your pride > and joy in the future. > > Henry H. > Mooney 252TSE > N252MK > KPAE Everett, WA >> > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 05:50:40 PM PST US From: "George P. Tyler" Subject: Re: RV-List: Indemnifying a seller Don't worry about it ,you can not sign away someone else's right to sue. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Henry" Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 4:57 PM Subject: RV-List: Indemnifying a seller > > > Good afternoon: > > A friend and I were looking at buying a homebuilt from the original > builder. We had no problem with signing a waiver of non responsibility > for ourselves, but the owner insisted on an indemnity clause in > perpetuity asking us to be responsible for any liability from the day of > the sale until the end of the plane's life. EAA insurance said such a > clause would negate our coverage. I believe Falcon said the same thing. > While I can understand the seller's need and desire to protect himself, > this is an impossible responsibility financial or otherwise for the > buyer. Needless to say it was a deal killer. > How are all of you out there dealing with situation like this, or more > likely, how do you think you will deal with it if you ever sell your > pride and joy in the future. > > Henry H. > Mooney 252TSE > N252MK > KPAE Everett, WA > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 06:16:15 PM PST US From: "John Fasching" Subject: RV-List: Indemnifying a seller I wonder if the Statute of Repose would apply...recall that a few years ago Congress passed a law that manufacturers were not liable for aircraft make over 18-years ago? Perhaps there are not many Rvs in that age bracket, but I suspect (without actually having read that statute) that this might be the ultimate solution. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rv-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rv-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.