---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 02/08/07: 48 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:47 AM - Re: RV-4 Tail Kit Advise (Tom & Cathy Ervin) 2. 01:48 AM - Re: RV-4 Tail Kit Advise (Tom & Cathy Ervin) 3. 01:51 AM - Re: RV-4 Tail Kit Advise (Tom & Cathy Ervin) 4. 01:53 AM - Re: RV-4 Tail Kit Advise (Tom & Cathy Ervin) 5. 03:08 AM - Re: Fuel Injection System (Kevin Horton) 6. 03:38 AM - Re: Purge Valve Safety Spring () 7. 05:46 AM - battery update, Bill Dube (john schmidt) 8. 06:16 AM - Re: Fuel Injection System (dfischer@iserv.net) 9. 06:38 AM - Re: Fuel Injection System (Dan Checkoway) 10. 06:43 AM - Re: Fuel Injection System (Gerry Filby) 11. 06:43 AM - Re: battery update, Bill Dube (Dan Checkoway) 12. 07:16 AM - Re: Re: Pilot's family awarded $10.5M (Chuck Jensen) 13. 07:19 AM - RV8 and RV8A for sale (N395V) 14. 07:56 AM - Re: Re: Pilot's family awarded $10.5M (Joseph Larson) 15. 08:02 AM - Re: Fuel Injection System (Dan Checkoway) 16. 09:23 AM - Re: Fuel Injection System (Robert Savage) 17. 09:26 AM - Fuel Injection System (Erich_Weaver@URSCorp.com) 18. 10:08 AM - Re: Fuel Injection System (Gerry Filby) 19. 10:18 AM - Re: RV 6 Transition Training (Jenny Estes) 20. 10:23 AM - RV-4 Tail Kit Advise (JOHN STARN) 21. 10:52 AM - Re: RV 6 Transition Training (Dan Checkoway) 22. 11:32 AM - Re: RV 6 Transition Training (Ron Lee) 23. 12:57 PM - Re: Fuel Injection System (David E. Nelson) 24. 12:57 PM - Infinity Grips (Dennis & Helga Enns) 25. 01:13 PM - Re: 3.7 lb, 600 cranking amp, 11.5 A-hr battery (Bill Dube) 26. 01:33 PM - Re: Re: Pilot's family awarded $10.5M (n801bh@netzero.com) 27. 01:36 PM - Re: Infinity Grips (Bill Settle) 28. 01:45 PM - Re: Fuel Injection System (Dan Checkoway) 29. 02:17 PM - Back Seat Instruments (Nick+Leonard) 30. 02:38 PM - Re: Fuel Injection System (David E. Nelson) 31. 03:21 PM - Re: Back Seat Instruments () 32. 03:25 PM - Re: Back Seat Instruments (Skylor Piper) 33. 03:32 PM - Re: battery update, Bill Dube (Bill Dube) 34. 03:38 PM - Re: battery update, Bill Dube (Bill Dube) 35. 04:11 PM - Re: battery update, Bill Dube (Rob Prior) 36. 04:15 PM - Re: battery update, Bill Dube (Bill Dube) 37. 04:22 PM - Re: RV 6 Transition Training (Bobby Hester) 38. 04:23 PM - Re: RV 6 Transition Training (Bobby Hester) 39. 05:59 PM - Re: RV 6 Transition Training (Ron Lee) 40. 05:59 PM - Hinged fuse block tray (Bret Smith) 41. 06:34 PM - Re: Re: Pilot's family awarded $10.5M (Ron Lee) 42. 06:37 PM - ELT Antenna (Jerry Isler) 43. 07:32 PM - Re: battery update, Bill Dube (Bill Boyd) 44. 08:14 PM - Re: ELT Antenna (Paul Rice) 45. 08:58 PM - Re: Hinged fuse block tray (Fiveonepw@aol.com) 46. 09:17 PM - RPM Chart (Greg Williams) 47. 09:31 PM - Re: RPM Chart (Kelly McMullen) 48. 09:52 PM - Re: RPM Chart (n801bh@netzero.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:47:49 AM PST US From: "Tom & Cathy Ervin" Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-4 Tail Kit Advise Actually a HRII is what I have in mind! Several people on the list have advised me to go with .020 Skins on the elevators and rudder which sounds like a good plan. Thanks, Tom in Ohio (10G-Holmes County) ----- Original Message ----- From: JOHN STARN To: rv-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 8:15 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-4 Tail Kit Advise The original RV-4 kits were not & are not available in QB, pre-punched, pre-marked, pre-aligned, pre-anything, no jigs required....in other words. YOU measure, build, drill, jig, alignment line, one step up from plans built. Since you have a 6A, think about a HRII Rocket. Ya take some -4 parts, some parts from John Harmon, invest in a 540 Lyco as we did and build an HRII for about the same price as a -4. But you get an RV-4 on steroids. Since the RV-10 the price of 540's has gone up. When we build the Rocket they were cheaper than a IO-360. I assume you have ridden in both the -4 & an HRII.....if not do so as soon as possible. Is the HRII harder to build than a -4 ?..Yes, a little, but well worth the extra work. Too bad your in Ohio or we would give a ride in N561FS. I'm going to post on the Rocket list so watch your e-mail, someone near ya'll may offer you a ride. I assume you built the -6A so an HRII is just more of the same and "Mo Better". Do Not Archive KABONG ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom & Cathy Ervin To: rv-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 3:43 PM Subject: RV-List: RV-4 Tail Kit Advise List, I am getting the urge to build an RV-4 to set next to my RV6-A in the hanger. Since I want to build this one as reasonable as possible orphaned kits are a good option. I have located a 1989 Tail Kit with very little done at an excellent price. Question for RV-4 Builders: Are the 1989 kits less advanced than the newer ones? RV-4 kits appear to have made fewer advances.......pre drilled skins....QB, etc? Any reason other than corrosion to stay away from the 1989 tail kit? Thanks, Tom in Ohio ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:48:57 AM PST US From: "Tom & Cathy Ervin" Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-4 Tail Kit Advise MessageGordon, Thanks for the reply! I am based at 10G in Millersburg, Oh. (Holmes Co.) Amish Country. Tom in Ohio ----- Original Message ----- From: gordon or marge To: rv-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 11:09 PM Subject: RE: RV-List: RV-4 Tail Kit Advise -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom & Cathy Ervin Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 6:44 PM To: rv-list@matronics.com Subject: RV-List: RV-4 Tail Kit Advise List, I am getting the urge to build an RV-4 to set next to my RV6-A in the hanger. Since I want to build this one as reasonable as possible orphaned kits are a good option. I have located a 1989 Tail Kit with very little done at an excellent price. Question for RV-4 Builders: Are the 1989 kits less advanced than the newer ones? RV-4 kits appear to have made fewer advances.......pre drilled skins....QB, etc? Any reason other than corrosion to stay away from the 1989 tail kit? Thanks, Tom in Ohio Tom: A call to Van's would tell you if the kits have been changed but I doubt if thay have. You don't say what the mission is but you say cost is important. A -4 is great fun but a lightly built one can be even better if sporting around is its main purpose. .020" control surface skins are probably more durable but care with the stiffener installation enables .016" skins to perform well. The spar is hell for stout and you can even have the pleasure of building it yourself if you like. Check the kit for completeness. Where are you located in Ohio? Gordon Comfort N363GC ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 01:51:24 AM PST US From: "Tom & Cathy Ervin" Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-4 Tail Kit Advise Thanks Hal....Any Good RV-4 Builder Sites on the Web? Tom in Ohio ----- Original Message ----- From: HalBenjamin@aol.com To: rv-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 9:48 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-4 Tail Kit Advise In a message dated 2/7/2007 6:47:24 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, tcervin@valkyrie.net writes: Any reason other than corrosion to stay away from the 1989 tail kit? The biggest problem with the tail kit is that it often times leads to a wing kit! But seriously I think you'd be fine with it. You might want to go with the thicker skins on the rudder & elevators. Hal Benjamin RV4 Long Island, New York Finish Kit ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 01:53:17 AM PST US From: "Tom & Cathy Ervin" Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-4 Tail Kit Advise Re: RV-List: RV-4 Tail Kit AdviseSeems to be the major recommendation....thicker skins. Thanks, Tom in Ohio ----- Original Message ----- From: Doug Weiler To: RV List Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 8:31 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-4 Tail Kit Advise Tom: My RV-4 was a little newer (bought the tail kit in 1991) but I don't think there has been any change over the years to the basic kit (no predrilled skins). One item that I would recommend is that you use .020 thick aluminum skins. The original kit came with .016 thick skins. I originally built mine with the .016 skins and developed cracks at the stiffener rivet holes after 40 hours. I rebuilt both elevators and the rudder with .020 skins (which Van will supply) and also added one stiffener in each panel by decreasing the stiffener spacing (fortunately I did all this before painting). I know have 365 hours on the airplane and all is well. Doug Weiler Hudson, WI On 2/7/07 5:43 PM, "Tom & Cathy Ervin" wrote: List, I am getting the urge to build an RV-4 to set next to my RV6-A in the hanger. Since I want to build this one as reasonable as possible orphaned kits are a good option. I have located a 1989 Tail Kit with very little done at an excellent price. Question for RV-4 Builders: Are the 1989 kits less advanced than the newer ones? RV-4 kits appear to have made fewer advances.......pre drilled skins....QB, etc? Any reason other than corrosion to stay away from the 1989 tail kit? Thanks, Tom in Ohio il Forum - >http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List ; - NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - matronics.com ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 03:08:06 AM PST US From: Kevin Horton Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel Injection System What about the engines with injectors on the front of the oil sump, like the angle valve IO-360s? Does Van sell a snorkel that fits, or do you still have to either modify one for a Silver Hawk system, or make your own? And what about firewall forward kits? Does Van sell any for engines with AFP, or are they all for engines with the Silver Hawk system? Kevin On 7 Feb 2007, at 22:39, Dan Checkoway wrote: > > It's not so "do it yourself" as Kevin implied. Van's actually > sells certain kits for AFP installs specifically. For example: > > http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi? > ident=1170905908-136-117&browse=engines&product=fab-vertical > > do not archive > )_( Dan > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Horton" > > To: > Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 6:50 PM > Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel Injection System > > >> >> On 7 Feb 2007, at 20:14, Robert Savage wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> I have been reading with interest all of the postings on purge >>> valves on the AirFlow Perfromance System. I am getting ready to >>> order an engine for my RV-7A and I am wondering if there is a >>> consensus on what brand of fuel injection that I should order. >>> I am looking at either the Silver Hawk EX or the Airflow >>> Performance system. What are the pro and cons of each? >> >> They probably both have the same performance and reliability (if >> installed in accordance with the installation instructions). >> But, the AFP is cheaper to purchase, cheaper to overhaul, and >> cheaper to tweak the injectors so all cylinders reach peak EGT at >> the same fuel flow. >> >> But, if Van sells any firewall forward stuff for a fuel injected >> engine of your type, it will be designed for the Bendix system. >> You can expect to have to make airbox mods to match the AFP >> system, as it puts the air intake in a bit different place than >> with a Bendix. Dozens (hundreds?) of RV builders have >> successfully done these mods, so it is doable. >> >> Kevin Horton >> Ottawa, Canada >> >> >> >> >> > > Kevin Horton Ottawa, Canada ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 03:38:16 AM PST US From: Subject: RV-List: Re: Purge Valve Safety Spring Charles, I did exactly what you suggested. I used a throttle return spring from the AutoZone aircraft aisle. Ran it from the purge valve arm to a AN3 bolt (one with a hole in the threads) on my baffles. It has enough force to return the purge valve actuator arm to the RUN position. I have never found a need to leave the valve in the ICO position so having it spring loaded to RUN is no imposition and it gives me peace of mind.. Ron Schreck RV-8 "Miss Izzy" Gold Hill Airpark, NC From: Charles Brame Subject: AFP Purge Valve Safety Spring Interesting discussion on purge valves. No problems with my AFP Purge Valve and it came with all the screws already safety wired. I worry about the valve cutoff arm inadvertently closing during flight resulting in an engine shut down. I've connected the arm to the cockpit with a Bowden cable which locks in "Run" position. However, I worry what would happen if the cable breaks or comes loose at the control arm. The solution seems to be a spring that would hold the arm to the "Run" position. Has anybody installed such a safety spring and how did you arrange it? Charlie Brame RV-6A N11CB San Antonio ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:46:36 AM PST US From: "john schmidt" Subject: RV-List: battery update, Bill Dube this is a recent post from the Flyrotary forum; I read it on another aviation-related list: >Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary Well, I said I was going to do it and we finally got the prototype built. We just built a 600 cranking amp, 11.5 A-hr, battery that weighs just 3.7 pounds. I've been testing it in my GMC van for the past week here in the Denver Winter. It snaps the van right over every morning without a problem. The van cranks faster than it did with the standard lead-acid battery. It is smaller than the Odyssey 680 so it fit in the same battery box with a couple of foam blocks for spacers. The battery has four status LEDs that tell you the cell balancing electronics are working OK. We are using A123 Systems M1 cells with our own custom battery management electronics. The A123 Systems cells are proven to be the safest Li-Ion cells on the market. No problems with fires (like laptop cells) because the chemistry they use is completely different. The battery can be damaged by running it completely flat (like leaving the master on) and holding the battery below 8 volts for a long time. It can also be damaged by charging it over 15.0 volts. It will likely still function after such abuse, but it won't be nearly as good as it was originally. If you don't abuse it, it should last you for many years. I think we will be in production in about a month, maybe two. Specs: 3.7 lbs 600 cranking amps 11.5 amp-hr Approximate maximum dimensions: 3" wide, 5" long, 7" tall (including terminals) Charging voltage = 13.8 to 15.0 volts (anywhere in this range is OK) Nominal voltage = 13.2 volts (Just a touch higher than your typical lead-acid, so it spins the starter a touch faster.) Cell cycle life rated at 2000 cycles (80% DOD, 90% capacity remaining) 10,000 cycles (80% DOD with 50% capacity remaining) @25 C Cell specs: http://www.a123systems.com/ht ml/products/ANR26650M1specs.pdf Maintenance free No heavy metals (iron-phosphate type cells) At this time, we estimate the retail price will be $595. (Yeah, I know this is not cheap, but this is the state-of-the-art battery technology so the parts to make it are not cheap.) Here is a picture of the prototype. We have it in a clear Lexan case so we can keep an eye on it. The production battery will have a smaller opaque case with a clear top lid (terminal end.) http://www.killacycle.com/photos/aircraft-battery/Prototype1InVan.JPG We have been racing these cells in the KillaCycle for about a year, so we know _all_ about them. http://www.KillaCycle.c om (Be sure to watch the movie clip.) We figured that most folks would want a battery that had the cranking amps to easily spin the starter and would not care much about the a-hrs. The cost is directly proportional to the amp-hrs. If we were to go to 16 amp-hrs (it's easy to do) the cost would go up to about $850. The cranking amps would also go up in proportion too. Figure about $1 per cranking amp, and about $50 per amp-hr and you won't be far off. The steps are 2.3 a-hr and 120 cranking amp increments. You pick. This battery REALLY spins the starter in my GMC van. When I turn on the key in the morning, the battery voltage is typically 13.4 volts (instead of 12.8 volts.) Anyone in the Denver area that flies daily interested in flight testing one of these? You would get to keep the battery and write anything you want about it (good or bad) as long as it was truthful. You would have to inspect it before and after each flight including noting the voltage and the BMS indicator light status. You must sign the usual liability waiver we are all now accustomed to of course. :-) You need to isolate it from over and under voltage as much as you would your present sealed lead-acid battery. I would suggest a buzzer connected to a door switch to warn you that you have left the master on. You should also have a warning light on the panel for over and under voltage. You should have these already. Keep in mind that this battery will withstand over and under voltage. It just "wounds" it much like such mistreatment "wounds" your present sealed lead-acid battery. This battery will take the abuse without creating an additional hazard. Other, less safe, types of Li-Ion batteries will do very bad things (like burst into flames) if you subject them to abuse. You wouldn't want to use anything other than a warning system for over and under voltage. This would cause a hazard greater than letting the battery "take the abuse". There is no danger in abusing the battery other than reducing its capacity for later use. To give you an idea of how tough these batteries are, we routinely heat these up to 100 C (212 F) in the bike. We routinely draw 50% more than their rated current. We routinely go below the minimum voltage (briefly.) We have accidentally over charged some of these cells. Yet, despite this abuse, we have never had to replace a single one of the 880 cells in the bike. These are not the delicate Li-Ion cells that they put in your laptop or cellphone. Bill Dube' bike@KillaCycle.com posted by John Schmidt RV 6 slow build St. Paul, MN 651 776 1717 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:16:38 AM PST US Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel Injection System From: dfischer@iserv.net If I've heard correctly, one big drawback to the AFP system compared to the Bendix-type is that AFP requires a return line to the fuel tank where the Silverhawk does not. Not a big deal if your tanks are not done, but troublesome if they are. I remember this from questions on the Yahoo XP-360 list I asked during my tank construction. If this is wrong, please correct me since I still have time to add return lines if needed, but my plan is Silverhawk. The tuning info is intriguing, however. As for cost, I plan to get my engine built with FI from the outset, but see from Aero Sport's website prices for IO-320 and O-320 the Silverhawk EX increases the price by $1000. AFP's website shows their conversion kit as $3000. Maybe AFP knocks off $2K when supplied by a engine builder such as Aero Sport and makes it comparable but I've not seen any proof yet of AFP being cheaper (less expensive). This is a good line of discussion for me since I have had the same questions of AFP vs. Silverhawk. Doug Fischer RV-9A Wings do not archive > They probably both have the same performance and reliability (if > installed in accordance with the installation instructions). But, > the AFP is cheaper to purchase, cheaper to overhaul, and cheaper to > tweak the injectors so all cylinders reach peak EGT at the same fuel > flow. >> > Kevin Horton > Ottawa, Canada > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:38:20 AM PST US From: "Dan Checkoway" Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel Injection System > What about the engines with injectors on the front of the oil sump, like > the angle valve IO-360s? Does Van sell a snorkel that fits, or do you > still have to either modify one for a Silver Hawk system, or make your > own? And what about firewall forward kits? Does Van sell any for > engines with AFP, or are they all for engines with the Silver Hawk > system? Good point. Yeah, for that setup, I think you're largely gonna have to DIY...at least in terms of the FAB mods if not the control cables as well. But from what I've seen, people using angle valve/horizontal induction are in a small minority. I'd put money on the original poster having parallel/vertical... ;-) do not archive )_( Dan ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:43:24 AM PST US From: "Gerry Filby" Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel Injection System Not quite correct. Its not a full time return line, its only for use with the purge valve for flushing he fuel lines before startup. It doesn't ne ed to extend back to the tank. In my setup its T'ed into the right tank s upply line just up stream of the fuel selector in the cabin. No changes t o the fuel tanks required, easy to retrofit even on a completed plane. g >-----Original Message----- >From: dfischer@iserv.net [mailto:dfischer@iserv.net] >Sent: Thursday, February 8, 2007 06:14 AM >To: rv-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel Injection System > > >If I've heard correctly, one big drawback to the AFP system compared to >the Bendix-type is that AFP requires a return line to the fuel tank wher e >the Silverhawk does not. Not a big deal if your tanks are not done, but >troublesome if they are. I remember this from questions on the Yahoo >XP-360 list I asked during my tank construction. If this is wrong, pleas e >correct me since I still have time to add return lines if needed, but my >plan is Silverhawk. The tuning info is intriguing, however. As for cost, >I plan to get my engine built with FI from the outset, but see from Aero >Sport's website prices for IO-320 and O-320 the Silverhawk EX increases >the price by $1000. AFP's website shows their conversion kit as $3000. >Maybe AFP knocks off $2K when supplied by a engine builder such as Aero >Sport and makes it comparable but I've not seen any proof yet of AFP bei ng >cheaper (less expensive). This is a good line of discussion for me since >I have had the same questions of AFP vs. Silverhawk. > >Doug Fischer >RV-9A Wings > >do not archive > >> They probably both have the same performance and reliability (if >> installed in accordance with the installation instructions). But, >> the AFP is cheaper to purchase, cheaper to overhaul, and cheaper to >> tweak the injectors so all cylinders reach peak EGT at the same fuel >> flow. >>> >> Kevin Horton >> Ottawa, Canada >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:43:24 AM PST US From: "Dan Checkoway" Subject: Re: RV-List: battery update, Bill Dube Bill, Cool stuff. How about an even smaller one capacity-wise? i.e. what would a 6 amp-hour or so version look like footprint & weight-wise? I ask about this in the context of providing a backup for a dual electronic ignition setup. I keep having this fantasy that in a year or two when I want to replace my mag with a 2nd Lightspeed, battery technology will hit a point where I can plop a little RC battery pack sized dealie in there. Essentially negligible weight & size, full functionality for what I need for. Like I said, a fantasy...or is it? )_( Dan do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "john schmidt" Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 5:42 AM Subject: RV-List: battery update, Bill Dube > > > this is a recent post from the Flyrotary forum; I read it on another > aviation-related list: > >>Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >>Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary > > Well, I said I was going to do it and we finally got the prototype built. > > We just built a 600 cranking amp, 11.5 A-hr, battery that weighs just > 3.7 pounds. I've been testing it in my GMC van for the past week here > in the Denver Winter. It snaps the van right over every morning > without a problem. The van cranks faster than it did with the > standard lead-acid battery. > > It is smaller than the Odyssey 680 so it fit in the same battery box > with a couple of foam blocks for spacers. > The battery has four status LEDs that tell you the cell balancing > electronics are working OK. We are using A123 Systems M1 cells with > our own custom battery management electronics. The A123 Systems cells > are proven to be the safest Li-Ion cells on the market. No problems > with fires (like laptop cells) because the chemistry they use is > completely different. > > The battery can be damaged by running it completely flat (like > leaving the master on) and holding the battery below 8 volts for a > long time. It can also be damaged by charging it over 15.0 volts. It > will likely still function after such abuse, but it won't be nearly > as good as it was originally. If you don't abuse it, it should last > you for many years. > > I think we will be in production in about a month, maybe two. > > Specs: > > 3.7 lbs > 600 cranking amps > 11.5 amp-hr > Approximate maximum dimensions: 3" wide, 5" long, 7" tall (including > terminals) > Charging voltage = 13.8 to 15.0 volts (anywhere in this range is OK) > Nominal voltage = 13.2 volts (Just a touch higher than your typical > lead-acid, so it spins the starter a touch faster.) > Cell cycle life rated at 2000 cycles (80% DOD, 90% capacity > remaining) 10,000 cycles (80% DOD with 50% capacity remaining) @25 C > Cell specs: > 3systems.com/html/products/ANR26650M1specs.pdf>http://www.a123systems.com/ht > ml/products/ANR26650M1specs.pdf > > Maintenance free > No heavy metals (iron-phosphate type cells) > > At this time, we estimate the retail price will be $595. (Yeah, I > know this is not cheap, but this is the state-of-the-art battery > technology so the parts to make it are not cheap.) > > Here is a picture of the prototype. We have it in a clear Lexan case > so we can keep an eye on it. The production battery will have a > smaller opaque case with a clear top lid (terminal end.) > http://www.killacycle.com/photos/aircraft-battery/Prototype1InVan.JPG > > > We have been racing these cells in the KillaCycle for about a year, > so we know _all_ about them. > http://www.KillaCycle.c > om (Be sure to > watch the movie clip.) > > > We figured that most folks would want a battery that had the cranking > amps to easily spin the starter and would not care much about the a-hrs. > > The cost is directly proportional to the amp-hrs. If we were to go to > 16 amp-hrs (it's easy to do) the cost would go up to about $850. The > cranking amps would also go up in proportion too. Figure about $1 per > cranking amp, and about $50 per amp-hr and you won't be far off. The > steps are 2.3 a-hr and 120 cranking amp increments. You pick. > > This battery REALLY spins the starter in my GMC van. When I turn on > the key in the morning, the battery voltage is typically 13.4 volts > (instead of 12.8 volts.) > > Anyone in the Denver area that flies daily interested in flight > testing one of these? You would get to keep the battery and write > anything you want about it (good or bad) as long as it was truthful. > You would have to inspect it before and after each flight including > noting the voltage and the BMS indicator light status. You must sign > the usual liability waiver we are all now accustomed to of course. :-) > > You need to isolate it from over and under voltage as much as you > would your present sealed lead-acid battery. I would suggest a buzzer > connected to a door switch to warn you that you have left the master > on. You should also have a warning light on the panel for over and > under voltage. You should have these already. > > Keep in mind that this battery will withstand over and under > voltage. It just "wounds" it much like such mistreatment "wounds" > your present sealed lead-acid battery. This battery will take the > abuse without creating an additional hazard. Other, less safe, types > of Li-Ion batteries will do very bad things (like burst into flames) > if you subject them to abuse. > > You wouldn't want to use anything other than a warning > system for over and under voltage. This would cause a hazard greater > than letting the battery "take the abuse". There is no danger in > abusing the battery other than reducing its capacity for later use. > > To give you an idea of how tough these batteries are, we > routinely heat these up to 100 C (212 F) in the bike. We routinely > draw 50% more than their rated current. We routinely go below the > minimum voltage (briefly.) We have accidentally over charged some of > these cells. Yet, despite this abuse, we have never had to replace a > single one of the 880 cells in the bike. > > These are not the delicate Li-Ion cells that they put in > your laptop or cellphone. > > Bill Dube' > bike@KillaCycle.com > > > posted by > John Schmidt > RV 6 slow build > St. Paul, MN > 651 776 1717 > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:16:58 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV-List: re: Pilot's family awarded $10.5M From: "Chuck Jensen" Larry James wrote... Thank you for your diligence. Your most recent posting citing Judge Kurtz's denial for a retrial is most discouraging. Sorry, but it only serves to deepen my convictions about how our legal system is screwed up. I have not read anything yet that has swayed me from my original thinking and my original statement to "lynch the family and lawyers" (figuratively speaking, of course). In speaking with a pilot friend who saw the local news coverage of this incident, Don Corbitt's wife was evidently interviewed and made comments to the effect that her lawsuit was warranted and would be a service to make things better ........ However anyone wants to frame this; I'll call bullshit again. The reasoning and actions of Mrs. Corbitt, her lawyers, the judges, the jurors, and the lawmakers that have allowed this to happen; all make me so ticked off ............ they all seem to be so inept at creating for themselves whatever they need to be happy that they justify stealing it from someone else ...... and that happens to be me and every other happy productive EAA member and payer of insurance. Yes, I do hope Mrs. Corbitt and her lawyers read this ...... no vitriol; just plain statements of reason and fact. Larry, I may not feel the same level of vitriol as you do (though its up there a little bit), I do note that anytime I hear a "victim" say, he/she is only doing to correct a wrong and make it better for the next person, this is most often code words for what they really mean to say, "SHOW ME THE MONEY!!". Chuck ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:19:16 AM PST US Subject: RV-List: RV8 and RV8A for sale From: "N395V" RV8 and RV8A Being sold by friends. Photo's info and contact numbers at do not archive -------- Milt N395V F1 Rocket Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=93651#93651 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:56:27 AM PST US From: Joseph Larson Subject: Re: RV-List: re: Pilot's family awarded $10.5M You could take a statement like "I'm doing it to fix a problem" seriously if the person then donated the bulk of the judgment to an appropriate charity. When does that happen? Which tells you that Chuck is right -- it's about the money. -Joe do not archive On Feb 8, 2007, at 9:16 AM, Chuck Jensen wrote: > I may not feel the same level of vitriol as you do (though its up > there a little bit), I do note that anytime I hear a "victim" say, > he/she is only doing to correct a wrong and make it better for the > next person, this is most often code words for what they really > mean to say, "SHOW ME THE MONEY!!". > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 08:02:14 AM PST US From: "Dan Checkoway" Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel Injection System See the attached photos for what Gerry mentioned. Very easy to tee the AFP purge return into the fuel supply. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D www.rvproject.com www.weathermeister.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Gerry Filby To: rv-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 6:42 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel Injection System Not quite correct. Its not a full time return line, its only for use with the purge valve for flushing he fuel lines before startup. It doesn't need to extend back to the tank. In my setup its T'ed into the right tank supply line just up stream of the fuel selector in the cabin. No changes to the fuel tanks required, easy to retrofit even on a completed plane. g >-----Original Message----- >From: dfischer@iserv.net [mailto:dfischer@iserv.net] >Sent: Thursday, February 8, 2007 06:14 AM >To: rv-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel Injection System > > >If I've heard correctly, one big drawback to the AFP system compared to >the Bendix-type is that AFP requires a return line to the fuel tank where >the Silverhawk does not. Not a big deal if your tanks are not done, but >troublesome if they are. I remember this from questions on the Yahoo >XP-360 list I asked during my tank construction. If this is wrong, please >correct me since I still have time to add return lines if needed, but my >plan is Silverhawk. The tuning info is intriguing, however. As for cost, >I plan to get my engine built with FI from the outset, but see from Aero >Sport's website prices for IO-320 and O-320 the Silverhawk EX increases >the price by $1000. AFP's website shows their conversion kit as $3000. >Maybe AFP knocks off $2K when supplied by a engine builder such as Aero >Sport and makes it comparable but I've not seen any proof yet of AFP being >cheaper (less expensive). This is a good line of discussion for me since >I have had the same questions of AFP vs. Silverhawk. > >Doug Fischer >RV-9A Wings > >do not archive > >> They probably both have the same performance and reliability (if >> installed in accordance with the installation instructions). But, >> the AFP is cheaper to purchase, cheaper to overhaul, and cheaper to >> tweak the injectors so all cylinders reach peak EGT at the same fuel >> flow. >>> >> Kevin Horton >> Ottawa, Canada >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > =========== =========== =========== > > > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:23:22 AM PST US From: "Robert Savage" Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel Injection System My plan is to use a Mattituck parallel valve engine with a horizontal induction. Based on what I have read on this list and how I understand that Van's firewall forward kits are put together, the Silver Hawk would be the most straightforward installation. BTW, Mattituck says that both fuel injection systems cost the same on an engine bought from them. Thanks for all of the input. Bob Finishing Kit RV7A QB >From: "Dan Checkoway" >To: >Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel Injection System >Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 06:37:14 -0800 > > >>What about the engines with injectors on the front of the oil sump, like >>the angle valve IO-360s? Does Van sell a snorkel that fits, or do you >>still have to either modify one for a Silver Hawk system, or make your >>own? And what about firewall forward kits? Does Van sell any for >>engines with AFP, or are they all for engines with the Silver Hawk >>system? > >Good point. Yeah, for that setup, I think you're largely gonna have to >DIY...at least in terms of the FAB mods if not the control cables as well. > >But from what I've seen, people using angle valve/horizontal induction are >in a small minority. I'd put money on the original poster having >parallel/vertical... ;-) > >do not archive >)_( Dan > > _________________________________________________________________ Laugh, share and connect with Windows Live Messenger ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 09:26:08 AM PST US Subject: RV-List: Fuel Injection System From: Erich_Weaver@URSCorp.com I have the AFP system on an IO-360B1B, which is essentially just like an O-360 (vertical induction) but replacing the carb with the AFP throttle body. In my case, upon informing VANs of my set up they just altered the firewall forward kit slightly. No changes to the airbox were needed. The only thing that wasnt quite right was that I had to exchange my mixture cable for one that was a few inches longer. I adjusted the location for the firewall pass-though on the mixture cable to better match the position on the throttle body and had to experiment a little making throttle and mixture cable attach brackets, but it wasnt bad overall. I have also had excellent customer service from Don at AFP. Erich Weaver ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 10:08:04 AM PST US From: "Gerry Filby" Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel Injection System To put all this in perspective ... the firewall forward kit isn't exactly "bolt on" in general. The extra effort involved, if there is any, to use the AFP injection system over an alternative is minor compared to the ma chinations you go through in general once you get forward of the firewall . Choose the best setup for your mission, the rest is details. g >-----Original Message----- >From: Robert Savage [mailto:bsavage22@hotmail.com] >Sent: Thursday, February 8, 2007 09:21 AM >To: rv-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel Injection System > > >My plan is to use a Mattituck parallel valve engine with a horizontal >induction. Based on what I have read on this list and how I understand t hat >Van's firewall forward kits are put together, the Silver Hawk would be t he >most straightforward installation. BTW, Mattituck says that both fuel >injection systems cost the same on an engine bought from them. Thanks fo r >all of the input. >Bob >Finishing Kit RV7A QB > >>From: "Dan Checkoway" >>To: >>Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel Injection System >>Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 06:37:14 -0800 >> >> >>>What about the engines with injectors on the front of the oil sump, li ke >>>the angle valve IO-360s? Does Van sell a snorkel that fits, or do you >>>still have to either modify one for a Silver Hawk system, or make your >>>own? And what about firewall forward kits? Does Van sell any for >>>engines with AFP, or are they all for engines with the Silver Hawk >>>system? >> >>Good point. Yeah, for that setup, I think you're largely gonna have to >>DIY...at least in terms of the FAB mods if not the control cables as we ll. >> >>But from what I've seen, people using angle valve/horizontal induction are >>in a small minority. I'd put money on the original poster having >>parallel/vertical... ;-) >> >>do not archive >>)_( Dan >> >> >> >> >> > >_________________________________________________________________ >Laugh, share and connect with Windows Live Messenger > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 10:18:12 AM PST US From: "Jenny Estes" Subject: Re: RV-List: RV 6 Transition Training Hi Dan, Jenny at NationAir here, Dave has a potential insured that needs help finding a CFI for an RV-6 in Florida not quite sure what part of FL. Do you know of anyone, or know where I can go look for this info? Thanks! Jenny Estes NationAir Aviation Insurance. >From: "Dan Checkoway" >To: >Subject: Re: RV-List: RV7A Transition Training >Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 18:16:57 -0800 > >Chuck, > >Are you on the SoCal-RVlist Yahoo group? That would be a good place to >post this. There are at least two "A" model CFIs in SoCal that I know >of... Mercedes Ratliffe (RV-6A, probably closer to you in 805) and Reuven >Silberman (RV-7A). Go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SoCal-RVlist to >join, and I recommend posting there. > >do not archive >)_( Dan > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Chuck & Deanna Schieffer > To: rv-list@matronics.com > Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 5:43 PM > Subject: RV-List: RV7A Transition Training > > > Dear Listers, I will be needing transition training for my RV7A in the >next several months in the So Cal area. Is anyone available and licensed >to supply this training in this area? Thanks, > Chuck > 805-531-9855 > > _________________________________________________________________ Talk now to your Hotmail contacts with Windows Live Messenger. http://get.live.com/messenger/overview ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 10:23:10 AM PST US From: "JOHN STARN" Subject: RV-List: RV-4 Tail Kit Advise I understand that several HRII's are flying with the slightly larger RV-8 tail feathers. I have no personal knowledge on that but I'm sure there are HRII drivers out there that will respond. KABONG Do Not Archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom & Cathy Ervin To: rv-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 1:44 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-4 Tail Kit Advise Actually a HRII is what I have in mind! Several people on the list have advised me to go with .020 Skins on the elevators and rudder which sounds like a good plan. ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 10:52:56 AM PST US From: "Dan Checkoway" Subject: Re: RV-List: RV 6 Transition Training Jenny, I don't know anybody offhand, but I suspect others on this list will know & reply on-list. do not archive )_( Dan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jenny Estes" Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 10:16 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: RV 6 Transition Training > > > Hi Dan, > > Jenny at NationAir here, Dave has a potential insured that needs help > finding a CFI for an RV-6 in Florida not quite sure what part of FL. Do > you know of anyone, or know where I can go look for this info? > > Thanks! > > Jenny Estes > NationAir Aviation Insurance. > >>From: "Dan Checkoway" >>To: >>Subject: Re: RV-List: RV7A Transition Training >>Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 18:16:57 -0800 >> >>Chuck, >> >>Are you on the SoCal-RVlist Yahoo group? That would be a good place to >>post this. There are at least two "A" model CFIs in SoCal that I know >>of... Mercedes Ratliffe (RV-6A, probably closer to you in 805) and Reuven >>Silberman (RV-7A). Go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SoCal-RVlist to >>join, and I recommend posting there. >> >>do not archive >>)_( Dan >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Chuck & Deanna Schieffer >> To: rv-list@matronics.com >> Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 5:43 PM >> Subject: RV-List: RV7A Transition Training >> >> >> Dear Listers, I will be needing transition training for my RV7A in the >> next several months in the So Cal area. Is anyone available and licensed >> to supply this training in this area? Thanks, >> Chuck >> 805-531-9855 >> >> >> > > _________________________________________________________________ > Talk now to your Hotmail contacts with Windows Live Messenger. > http://get.live.com/messenger/overview > > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 11:32:34 AM PST US From: Ron Lee Subject: Re: RV-List: RV 6 Transition Training Sounds like we need a comprehensive listing of transition training options Ron Lee ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 12:57:22 PM PST US From: "David E. Nelson" Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel Injection System Hi Dan, I'm curious - in looking at your pics, why didn't you plum the return in between the two backets? Thanks, /\/elson RV-7A Fuselage Austin, TX -- ~~ ** ~~ Research has shown that Mondays account for 1/7th of your time ~~ ** ~~ ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 12:57:34 PM PST US From: Dennis & Helga Enns Subject: RV-List: Infinity Grips In an RV-8 is it correct that a straight rear stick with Infinity stick grip will interfer with the back of the front seat and not allow full down elevator travel.. I read on someones website that you need to put a bend in the rear stick to get it to work.I just finished "last" assembly of my control system and would hate to have to take it apart again. It would also have to put in a multipin connector in the blue hose coming off the Infinity grip.Your answer might save me getting the tail out of storage and installing it to check stick travel. If I need a bent stick, is there anyone who provides these. Thanks, Dennis Enns - working on the finishing kit. ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 01:13:06 PM PST US From: Bill Dube Subject: Re: RV-List: 3.7 lb, 600 cranking amp, 11.5 A-hr battery Sell ya a battery for $50 right now, but it will weigh 35 lbs instead of 3.5 lbs. You pick. Bill Dube' At 10:30 PM 2/7/2007, you wrote: > > >Sounds great Bill, let me know when ultra lean, six sigma, manufacturing >processes get the price down to around $50. Then I'll try it:-) > >Dean Psiropoulos >RV-6A N197DM >Finishing Wiring, electrical checkout. > > > >From: Bill Dube > >Subject: RV-List: 3.7 lb, 600 cranking amp, 11.5 A-hr battery > > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 01:33:09 PM PST US From: "n801bh@netzero.com" Subject: RE: RV-List: re: Pilot's family awarded $10.5M The RIGHT thing to do would be for the widow to donate the millions back into the EAA Young Eagles program in the name of her husband. If it wer e not for the EAA there wouldn't be a Vans RV series for her late husban d to fly.. Well, at least try to fly.... I really hope her and her lawyers are reading this thread... do not archive Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com -- "Chuck Jensen" wrote: Larry James wrote... Thank you for your diligence. Your most r ecent posting citing Judge Kurtz=92s denial for a retrial is most discou raging. Sorry, but it only serves to deepen my convictions about how ou r legal system is screwed up. I have not read anything yet that has swa yed me from my original thinking and my original statement to =93lynch t he family and lawyers=94 (figuratively speaking, of course). In speaking with a pilot friend who saw the local news coverage of this incident, Don Corbitt=92s wife was evidently interviewed and made commen ts to the effect that her lawsuit was warranted and would be a service t o make things better =85=85.. However anyone wants to frame this; I=92l l call bullshit again. The reasoning and actions of Mrs. Corbitt, her l awyers, the judges, the jurors, and the lawmakers that have allowed this to happen; all make me so ticked off =85=85=85=85 they all seem to be so inept at creating for themselves whatever they need to be happy that they justify stealing it from someone else =85=85 and that happens to be me and every other happy productive EAA member and payer of insurance. Yes, I do hope Mrs. Corbitt and her lawyers read this =85=85 no vitriol ; just plain statements of reason and fact. Larry, I may not feel the same level of vitriol as you do (though its up there a little bit), I do note that anytime I hear a "victim" say, he/she is o nly doing to correct a wrong and make it better for the next person, thi s is most often code words for what they really mean to say, "SHOW ME TH E MONEY!!". Chuck href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics .com/Navigator?RV-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums ======================== -======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== =

The RIGHT thing to do would be for the widow to donate the mill ions back into the EAA Young Eagles program in the name of her husband. If it were not for the EAA there wouldn't be a Vans RV series for her la te husband to fly.. Well, at least try to fly....

I really hope her and her lawyers are reading this thread...

do not archive


Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair .com

-- "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen@dts9000.com>  wrote:

 Larry Jam es wrote...
 

Thank you for your diligence.  Your most recent posting citing Judge Kurtz=92s denial for a retrial is most discouraging.  Sorry, but it only serves to deepen my convictions a bout how our legal system is screwed up.  I have not read anything yet that has swayed me from my original thinking and my original stateme nt to =93lynch the family and lawyers=94 (figuratively speaking, of cour se).

 

In speaking with a pilot friend who saw t he local news coverage of this incident, Don Corbitt=92s wife was eviden tly interviewed and made comments to the effect that her lawsuit was war ranted and would be a service to make things better =85=85..  Howev er anyone wants to frame this; I=92ll call bullshit again.  The rea soning and actions of Mrs. Corbitt, her lawyers, the judges, the jurors, and the lawmakers that have allowed this to happen; all make me so tick ed off =85=85=85=85  they all seem to be so inept at creating for t hemselves whatever they need to be happy that they justify stealing it f rom someone else =85=85 and that happens to be me and every other happy productive EAA member and payer of insurance.  Yes, I do hope Mrs. Corbitt and her lawyers read this =85=85 no vitriol; just plain statemen ts of reason and fact.  

 

Larry,

I may not fee l the same level of vitriol as you do (though its up there a little bit), I do note that anytime I hear a "victim" say, he/she is only doing to correct a wrong and make it better for the next person, this is most often code words for what they really mean to say, "SHOW ME THE MONEY!!" .

 

Chuck< /o:p>



href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matron
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com




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tp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
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tronics.com
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________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 01:36:57 PM PST US From: Bill Settle Subject: Re: RV-List: Infinity Grips > > From: Dennis & Helga Enns > Date: 2007/02/08 Thu PM 03:57:00 EST > To: rv-list@matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: Infinity Grips Snip- > If I need a bent stick, is there anyone who provides these. Try.... http://www.rvwoody.com/index.html > > In an RV-8 is it correct that a straight rear stick with Infinity stick > grip will interfer with the back of the front seat and not allow full > down elevator travel.. I read on someones website that you need to put a > bend in the rear stick to get it to work.I just finished "last" assembly > of my control system and would hate to have to take it apart again. It > would also have to put in a multipin connector in the blue hose coming > off the Infinity grip.Your answer might save me getting the tail out of > storage and installing it to check stick travel. If I need a bent stick, > is there anyone who provides these. > > > Thanks, > Dennis Enns - working on the finishing kit. > > > > ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 01:45:41 PM PST US From: "Dan Checkoway" Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel Injection System My philosophy was...the closer to the tank the better. I don't think it makes much difference. )_( Dan ----- Original Message ----- From: "David E. Nelson" Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 12:55 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel Injection System > > > Hi Dan, > > I'm curious - in looking at your pics, why didn't you plum the return in > between the two backets? > > Thanks, > /\/elson > RV-7A Fuselage > Austin, TX > > -- > ~~ ** ~~ Research has shown that Mondays account for 1/7th of your time ~~ > ** ~~ > > > ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 02:17:50 PM PST US Subject: RV-List: Back Seat Instruments From: Nick+Leonard Somebody must have put some basic electronic flight/engine instruments in an RV4/8 for the back seat passenger. I can't seem to find anything concrete on what works or doesn't work in that space behind the front seat. Does anyone have any pictures, know of someone or had any experiences (good or bad) with putting in a Dynon, VMC1000, GRT, or any panels back there? Room (depth) is obviously an issue to contend with, so any help would be appreciated. Nick Building and RV-10 along side a friend's RV-8A He has a hard time spelling internet so I'm doing the searching and asking ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 02:38:00 PM PST US From: "David E. Nelson" Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel Injection System Sounds reasonable. Thanks, /\/elson Do not archive On Thu, 8 Feb 2007, Dan Checkoway wrote: > > My philosophy was...the closer to the tank the better. I don't think it > makes much difference. > > )_( Dan > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "David E. Nelson" > To: > Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 12:55 PM > Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel Injection System > > >> >> >> Hi Dan, >> >> I'm curious - in looking at your pics, why didn't you plum the return in >> between the two backets? >> >> Thanks, >> /\/elson >> RV-7A Fuselage >> Austin, TX >> >> -- >> ~~ ** ~~ Research has shown that Mondays account for 1/7th of your time ~~ >> ** ~~ >> >> >> >> > > -- ~~ ** ~~ Research has shown that Mondays account for 1/7th of your time ~~ ** ~~ ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 03:21:45 PM PST US Subject: RE: RV-List: Back Seat Instruments From: Hi Nick, Might I suggest a look at the following http://www.lightflying.com.au/index.htm These guys sell a range of glass ultralight instruments at a pretty reasonable price especially when you consider the favourable exchange rate. Lets face it for the rear seat your only really interested in the basics and cost is a major consideration. The ultralight guys over here give these things a real hard life and they seem to be pretty robust. Cheers John Morrissey -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Nick+Leonard Sent: Friday, 9 February 2007 9:16 AM Subject: RV-List: Back Seat Instruments Somebody must have put some basic electronic flight/engine instruments in an RV4/8 for the back seat passenger. I can't seem to find anything concrete on what works or doesn't work in that space behind the front seat. Does anyone have any pictures, know of someone or had any experiences (good or bad) with putting in a Dynon, VMC1000, GRT, or any panels back there? Room (depth) is obviously an issue to contend with, so any help would be appreciated. Nick Building and RV-10 along side a friend's RV-8A He has a hard time spelling internet so I'm doing the searching and asking ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 03:25:58 PM PST US From: Skylor Piper Subject: Re: RV-List: Back Seat Instruments Nick, I am building and RV-8 and I am planning to use a Grand Rapids EFIS system (which I already have). I am planning to use 2 displays (with EIS) in the panel, and I plan to use the third display in the back seat. On the GRT system any of the mulite function displays is capable of displaying any of the various display screens (PFD, Moving Map, Engine instrumentation) or combinations of them, all flight, nav, and engine data will be available in the back seat. While I haven't actually planned how I am going to mount the rear seat display, I don't see any space issues since the display is only about 3 inches thick. Skylor RV-8QB Under Construction Wiring, FWF, etc. --- Nick+Leonard wrote: > > > > Somebody must have put some basic electronic > flight/engine instruments in an RV4/8 for the back > seat passenger. I can't seem to find anything > concrete on what works or doesn't work in that space > behind the front seat. Does anyone have any > pictures, know of someone or had any experiences > (good or bad) with putting in a Dynon, VMC1000, GRT, > or any panels back there? Room (depth) is obviously > an issue to contend with, so any help would be > appreciated. > > Nick > Building and RV-10 along side a friend's RV-8A > He has a hard time spelling internet so I'm doing > the searching and asking > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > > Web Forums! > > > > > Don't get soaked. Take a quick peak at the forecast with the Yahoo! Search weather shortcut. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#loc_weather ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 03:32:30 PM PST US From: Bill Dube Subject: Re: RV-List: battery update, Bill Dube Sure, smaller is easy. The increments are 2.3 a-hrs and 120 cranking amps. The cells are 26650 size. That is, they are ~ 26 mm in diameter and ~65 mm long. To make a battery that is nominally 12 volts, we put 4 in series. We them parallel up as many as required to get the amp-hrs and cranking amps we need. We weld the tabs on with the cells side-by-side. We leave them in that configuration for the starting battery we are about to produce. If you want a slightly different shape, we can "unfold" the tabs to make some, or all, of the series cells stack end-to-end. Thus, we can make a battery that is as thin as 1 inch and 11 inches long, or 2 inches thick and 5 1/2 inches long. The width is set by the amp-hrs (and cranking amps). For each 2.3 amp-hrs, add another inch in width. The cost roughly scales with amp-hrs (and cranking amps) Bill Dube' At 07:42 AM 2/8/2007, you wrote: > >Bill, > >Cool stuff. How about an even smaller one capacity-wise? i.e. what >would a 6 amp-hour or so version look like footprint & >weight-wise? I ask about this in the context of providing a backup >for a dual electronic ignition setup. > >I keep having this fantasy that in a year or two when I want to >replace my mag with a 2nd Lightspeed, battery technology will hit a >point where I can plop a little RC battery pack sized dealie in >there. Essentially negligible weight & size, full functionality for >what I need for. Like I said, a fantasy...or is it? > >)_( Dan >do not archive > >----- Original Message ----- From: "john schmidt" >To: >Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 5:42 AM >Subject: RV-List: battery update, Bill Dube > > >> >> >> >> >>this is a recent post from the Flyrotary forum; I read it on >>another aviation-related list: >> >>>Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >>>Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary >> >>Well, I said I was going to do it and we finally got the prototype built. >> >>We just built a 600 cranking amp, 11.5 A-hr, battery that weighs just >>3.7 pounds. I've been testing it in my GMC van for the past week here >>in the Denver Winter. It snaps the van right over every morning >>without a problem. The van cranks faster than it did with the >>standard lead-acid battery. >> >>It is smaller than the Odyssey 680 so it fit in the same battery box >>with a couple of foam blocks for spacers. >>The battery has four status LEDs that tell you the cell balancing >>electronics are working OK. We are using A123 Systems M1 cells with >>our own custom battery management electronics. The A123 Systems cells >>are proven to be the safest Li-Ion cells on the market. No problems >>with fires (like laptop cells) because the chemistry they use is >>completely different. >> >>The battery can be damaged by running it completely flat (like >>leaving the master on) and holding the battery below 8 volts for a >>long time. It can also be damaged by charging it over 15.0 volts. It >>will likely still function after such abuse, but it won't be nearly >>as good as it was originally. If you don't abuse it, it should last >>you for many years. >> >>I think we will be in production in about a month, maybe two. >> >>Specs: >> >>3.7 lbs >>600 cranking amps >>11.5 amp-hr >>Approximate maximum dimensions: 3" wide, 5" long, 7" tall (including >>terminals) >>Charging voltage = 13.8 to 15.0 volts (anywhere in this range is OK) >>Nominal voltage = 13.2 volts (Just a touch higher than your typical >>lead-acid, so it spins the starter a touch faster.) >>Cell cycle life rated at 2000 cycles (80% DOD, 90% capacity >>remaining) 10,000 cycles (80% DOD with 50% capacity remaining) @25 C >>Cell specs: >> >>3systems.com/html/products/ANR26650M1specs.pdf>http://www.a123systems.com/ht >>ml/products/ANR26650M1specs.pdf >> >>Maintenance free >>No heavy metals (iron-phosphate type cells) >> >>At this time, we estimate the retail price will be $595. (Yeah, I >>know this is not cheap, but this is the state-of-the-art battery >>technology so the parts to make it are not cheap.) >> >>Here is a picture of the prototype. We have it in a clear Lexan case >>so we can keep an eye on it. The production battery will have a >>smaller opaque case with a clear top lid (terminal end.) >>http://www.killacycle.com/photos/aircraft-battery/Prototype1InVan.JPG >> >> >>We have been racing these cells in the KillaCycle for about a year, >>so we know _all_ about them. >>http://www.KillaCycle.c >>om (Be sure to >>watch the movie clip.) >> >> >> >>We figured that most folks would want a battery that had the cranking >>amps to easily spin the starter and would not care much about the a-hrs. >> >>The cost is directly proportional to the amp-hrs. If we were to go to >>16 amp-hrs (it's easy to do) the cost would go up to about $850. The >>cranking amps would also go up in proportion too. Figure about $1 per >>cranking amp, and about $50 per amp-hr and you won't be far off. The >>steps are 2.3 a-hr and 120 cranking amp increments. You pick. >> >>This battery REALLY spins the starter in my GMC van. When I turn on >>the key in the morning, the battery voltage is typically 13.4 volts >>(instead of 12.8 volts.) >> >>Anyone in the Denver area that flies daily interested in flight >>testing one of these? You would get to keep the battery and write >>anything you want about it (good or bad) as long as it was truthful. >>You would have to inspect it before and after each flight including >>noting the voltage and the BMS indicator light status. You must sign >>the usual liability waiver we are all now accustomed to of course. :-) >> >>You need to isolate it from over and under voltage as much as you >>would your present sealed lead-acid battery. I would suggest a buzzer >>connected to a door switch to warn you that you have left the master >>on. You should also have a warning light on the panel for over and >>under voltage. You should have these already. >> >>Keep in mind that this battery will withstand over and under >>voltage. It just "wounds" it much like such mistreatment "wounds" >>your present sealed lead-acid battery. This battery will take the >>abuse without creating an additional hazard. Other, less safe, types >>of Li-Ion batteries will do very bad things (like burst into flames) >>if you subject them to abuse. >> >>You wouldn't want to use anything other than a warning >>system for over and under voltage. This would cause a hazard greater >>than letting the battery "take the abuse". There is no danger in >>abusing the battery other than reducing its capacity for later use. >> >>To give you an idea of how tough these batteries are, we >>routinely heat these up to 100 C (212 F) in the bike. We routinely >>draw 50% more than their rated current. We routinely go below the >>minimum voltage (briefly.) We have accidentally over charged some of >>these cells. Yet, despite this abuse, we have never had to replace a >>single one of the 880 cells in the bike. >> >>These are not the delicate Li-Ion cells that they put in >>your laptop or cellphone. >> >>Bill Dube' >>bike@KillaCycle.com >> >> >> >>posted by >>John Schmidt >>RV 6 slow build >>St. Paul, MN >>651 776 1717 >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 03:38:15 PM PST US From: Bill Dube Subject: Re: RV-List: battery update, Bill Dube Hi Dan, A private note. You fly quite a few hours, and are technically able to take good data. You also are well-respected in the RV community. Would you be interested in flight testing one of my batteries? You get a free battery out of the deal. All you have to do is note the voltage before and after each flight, note the indicator light status before and after each flight, and write an honest review. (Good or bad is no matter as long as it is honest.) You can run it in your car for awhile first, if you like. :-) Bill Dube' 2244 Grape St Denver, CO 80207 303 329-9158 303 497-3933 ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 04:11:19 PM PST US From: "Rob Prior" Subject: Re: RV-List: battery update, Bill Dube On 15:35 2007-02-08 Bill Dube wrote: > Hi Dan, > > A private note. I *hate* it when I do that. :) -Rob do not archive ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 04:15:15 PM PST US From: Bill Dube Subject: Re: RV-List: battery update, Bill Dube At 04:35 PM 2/8/2007, you wrote: > >Hi Dan, > > A private note. Meant this to go to Dan, not the list, sorry Bill D. ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 04:22:15 PM PST US From: Bobby Hester Subject: Re: RV-List: RV 6 Transition Training We already have it: http://www.vansairforce.net/transition_training.htm Surfing the web with my laptop from Hopkinsville, KY Visit my RV7A website: http://webpages.charter.net/bobbyhester/FinishingUpPg3.htm Ron Lee wrote: > > Sounds like we need a comprehensive listing of transition training > options > > Ron Lee > > ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 04:23:23 PM PST US From: Bobby Hester Subject: Re: RV-List: RV 6 Transition Training USA Florida Jan Bussell / janjoyce@strato.net 863-467-9354 Found this info here: http://www.vansairforce.net/transition_training.htm Surfing the web with my laptop from Hopkinsville, KY Visit my RV7A website: http://webpages.charter.net/bobbyhester/FinishingUpPg3.htm Jenny Estes wrote: > > > Hi Dan, > > Jenny at NationAir here, Dave has a potential insured that needs help > finding a CFI for an RV-6 in Florida not quite sure what part of FL. > Do you know of anyone, or know where I can go look for this info? > > Thanks! > > Jenny Estes > NationAir Aviation Insurance. > >> From: "Dan Checkoway" >> To: >> Subject: Re: RV-List: RV7A Transition Training >> Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 18:16:57 -0800 >> >> Chuck, >> >> Are you on the SoCal-RVlist Yahoo group? That would be a good place >> to post this. There are at least two "A" model CFIs in SoCal that I >> know of... Mercedes Ratliffe (RV-6A, probably closer to you in 805) >> and Reuven Silberman (RV-7A). Go to >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SoCal-RVlist to join, and I recommend >> posting there. >> >> do not archive >> )_( Dan >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Chuck & Deanna Schieffer >> To: rv-list@matronics.com >> Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 5:43 PM >> Subject: RV-List: RV7A Transition Training >> >> >> Dear Listers, I will be needing transition training for my RV7A in >> the next several months in the So Cal area. Is anyone available and >> licensed to supply this training in this area? Thanks, >> Chuck >> 805-531-9855 >> >> >> > > _________________________________________________________________ > Talk now to your Hotmail contacts with Windows Live Messenger. > http://get.live.com/messenger/overview > > ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 05:59:43 PM PST US From: Ron Lee Subject: Re: RV-List: RV 6 Transition Training At 05:21 PM 2/8/2007, you wrote: > >We already have it: >http://www.vansairforce.net/transition_training.htm > So there are only six in the entire USA? Ron Lee ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 05:59:43 PM PST US From: "Bret Smith" Subject: RV-List: Hinged fuse block tray A while back, I saw where someone had fabricated a hinged tray for their fuse blocks that folded up and latched neatly under the panel. I would appreciate any links. TIA Bret Smith RV-9A (91314) Mineral Bluff, GA www.FlightInnovations.com ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 06:34:31 PM PST US From: Ron Lee Subject: RE: RV-List: re: Pilot's family awarded $10.5M At 02:29 PM 2/8/2007, you wrote: >The RIGHT thing to do would be for the widow to donate the millions back >into the EAA Young Eagles program in the name of her husband. If it were >not for the EAA there wouldn't be a Vans RV series for her late husband to >fly.. Well, at least try to fly.... If this judgment stands then giving that money to YE or Mother Teresa will mean nothing. The chilling effect on fly-ins may cause many to cease to exist. Ron Lee ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 06:37:30 PM PST US From: "Jerry Isler" Subject: RV-List: ELT Antenna What is your current opinion of where the ELT antenna should be installed on an RV-4? My ACK ELT is mounted on the upper shelf of the baggage compartment. I am leaning toward mounting the antenna on the topside of the turtle deck right behind the canopy. If you have a snappy location that is better concealed I would like to know. The airplane is finished and this is one of the small details I have left to complete. Also, what does the large molded rubber base do on the ELT antenna? Is it a strain relief to keep the antenna from snapping off in the breeze at 200+ MPH? Does it cover something up like a coil or what ever? I want to be able to trim this rubber off so I can possibly mount the antenna inside the cabin. However I do not want to destroy the antenna by sawing off something important. Jerry Isler Donalsonville, GA RV4 N455J Cessna C140A N9641A ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 07:32:05 PM PST US From: "Bill Boyd" Subject: Re: RV-List: battery update, Bill Dube It's okay, Bill. We ALL meet your qualifications for beta testing and we ALL want a free battery to try out for you. Get busy; big production run going out the door now ;-) -Stormy On 2/8/07, Bill Dube wrote: > > At 04:35 PM 2/8/2007, you wrote: > > > >Hi Dan, > > > > A private note. > > Meant this to go to Dan, not the list, sorry > > Bill D. > > ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 08:14:09 PM PST US From: "Paul Rice" Subject: Re: RV-List: ELT Antenna Hey Jerry, I just mounted mine in my -8 on the rear seat arm rest as far back as possible and zip tied it around the curve of the fuselage thru a hole just large enough to get the zip tie thru. I saw it somewhere else and copied the idea. It is now out of the way, not creating drag, and doen't hinder the rear seater. See you in the air. Paul Rice ----- Original Message ----- From: Jerry Isler To: rv-list@matronics.com ; aeroelectric-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 9:30 PM Subject: RV-List: ELT Antenna > What is your current opinion of where the ELT antenna should be installed on an RV-4? My ACK ELT is mounted on the upper shelf of the baggage compartment. I am leaning toward mounting the antenna on the topside of the turtle deck right behind the canopy. If you have a snappy location that is better concealed I would like to know. The airplane is finished and this is one of the small details I have left to complete. Also, what does the large molded rubber base do on the ELT antenna? Is it a strain relief to keep the antenna from snapping off in the breeze at 200+ MPH? Does it cover something up like a coil or what ever? I want to be able to trim this rubber off so I can possibly mount the antenna inside the cabin. However I do not want to destroy the antenna by sawing off something important. Jerry Isler Donalsonville, GA RV4 N455J Cessna C140A N9641A http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List ________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________ Time: 08:58:23 PM PST US From: Fiveonepw@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Hinged fuse block tray Hi Bret- Here's mine: http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=5002 I've got some more fotos I could dig up if needed... >From The PossumWorks in TN Mark ________________________________ Message 46 ____________________________________ Time: 09:17:02 PM PST US From: "Greg Williams" Subject: RV-List: RPM Chart My RV-7 has an IO-360, lightspeed ignition and Hartzell constant speed prop. I'm looking for a chart with RPM & MP & %power that I can use to set up cruise flight efficiently. My Lycoming & Hartzell books don't help. Any help out there? Greg ________________________________ Message 47 ____________________________________ Time: 09:31:01 PM PST US From: Kelly McMullen Subject: Re: RV-List: RPM Chart Get your hands on owners manual for 200hp Mooney, Cardinal, Arrow for a starting point. Generally rpm/100+MP=49 will put you pretty close to 75%, give or take 3%. Fuel flow ROP will be about 10.5-11. Lean of peak figure 9.5-10gph. Make sure with Hartzell the rpm recommendations/limitations for your specific engine/crank and prop combination. Many have restricted areas. Especially the A1A engine with the more desirable non-counterweighted crank, at least if aerobatics are contemplated. (My Mooney with that combination has restricted range from 2000-2350) Greg Williams wrote: > My RV-7 has an IO-360, lightspeed ignition and Hartzell constant speed > prop. I'm looking for a chart with RPM & MP & %power that I can use > to set up cruise flight efficiently. My Lycoming & Hartzell books > don't help. Any help out there? Greg > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 48 ____________________________________ Time: 09:52:03 PM PST US From: "n801bh@netzero.com" Subject: Re: RV-List: RPM Chart GPS, a fuel flow meter and some cruising around will give you the best n umbers.. do not archive Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com -- "Greg Williams" wrote: My RV-7 has an IO-360, lightspeed ignition and Hartzell constant speed p rop. I'm looking for a chart with RPM & MP & %power that I can use to s et up cruise flight efficiently. My Lycoming & Hartzell books don't hel p. Any help out there? Greg ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== ====================

GPS, a fuel flow meter and some cruising around will give you t he best numbers..

do not archive


Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair .com

-- "Greg Williams" <mr.gsun@gmail.com>& nbsp;wrote:
My RV-7 has an IO-360, lightspeed ignition and Hartzell c onstant speed prop.  I'm looking for a chart with RPM & MP & ; %power that I can use to set up cruise flight efficiently.  My Ly coming & Hartzell books don't help.  Any help out there?  Greg



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