---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 02/14/07: 47 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:11 AM - RV-6 static port location? (Kevin Horton) 2. 03:19 AM - Altimeter movements on landing roll (Kevin Horton) 3. 05:08 AM - Re: All electric RV! (Tom & Cathy Ervin) 4. 06:36 AM - Re: All electric RV! (Bret Smith) 5. 06:53 AM - Engine monitor survey (Bob Collins) 6. 07:20 AM - Re: All electric RV! (Bob J.) 7. 07:20 AM - Re: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M (Brian Meyette) 8. 07:54 AM - Re: RV-6 static port location? (Steve Allison) 9. 08:09 AM - Re: Altimeter movements on landing roll (David Leonard) 10. 08:10 AM - Re: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M (Bob Collins) 11. 08:31 AM - Re: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M (David Leonard) 12. 08:37 AM - Rv8 Tail Kit for sale (Al Grajek) 13. 08:58 AM - Re: Altimeter movements on landing roll (Kevin Horton) 14. 09:10 AM - Re: RV-6 static port location? (Tim Bryan) 15. 09:10 AM - Re: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M (Tim Bryan) 16. 09:15 AM - Re: Duckworks Light Dimensions (don wentz) 17. 09:23 AM - Re: RV-6 static port location? (Terry Watson) 18. 10:48 AM - Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M (Bob Collins) 19. 11:57 AM - Re: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M (Lloyd, Daniel R.) 20. 12:03 PM - Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M (Bob Collins) 21. 12:09 PM - Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M (Bob Collins) 22. 12:43 PM - Re: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M (Lloyd, Daniel R.) 23. 12:47 PM - Re: Duckworks Light Dimensions (Brian Meyette) 24. 01:03 PM - Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M (Bob Collins) 25. 01:44 PM - Re: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M (Lloyd, Daniel R.) 26. 01:46 PM - Re: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M (Ron Lee) 27. 01:47 PM - Why does my engine back-fire ? (Gerry Filby) 28. 02:32 PM - Re: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M (n801bh@netzero.com) 29. 03:14 PM - Re: Why does my engine back-fire ? () 30. 03:29 PM - Re: Why does my engine back-fire ? (Ron Lee) 31. 03:56 PM - Re: Why does my engine back-fire ? (Andy Gold) 32. 03:56 PM - Re: Why does my engine back-fire ? (Darrell Reiley) 33. 04:01 PM - Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M (Bob Collins) 34. 04:05 PM - Re: Why does my engine back-fire ? (Dave Nellis) 35. 04:24 PM - Re: Why does my engine back-fire ? (Tom Gummo) 36. 05:03 PM - A&P Recomendation at KRIC (David Schaefer) 37. 05:36 PM - Re: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M (Lloyd, Daniel R.) 38. 06:06 PM - Re: A&P Recomendation at KRIC (scott bilinski) 39. 06:45 PM - Re: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M (David Dalton) 40. 06:51 PM - Re: Why does my engine back-fire ? (Bill Boyd) 41. 08:05 PM - Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M (Bob Collins) 42. 08:50 PM - Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M (Bob Collins) 43. 09:40 PM - Re: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M (Skylor Piper) 44. 09:52 PM - Re: Why does my engine back-fire ? (Gerry Filby) 45. 10:34 PM - Re: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M (Rob Prior) 46. 11:07 PM - Re: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M (Jerry Springer) 47. 11:09 PM - Re: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M (Jerry Springer) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:11:09 AM PST US From: Kevin Horton Subject: RV-List: RV-6 static port location? I'm communicating with someone who is chasing a static system accuracy issue on an RV-6. He didn't build the aircraft, and he can't find the info on where Van recommends putting the pop rivets for the static ports. I'd appreciate it if an RV-6 builder could either provide a detailed description of the recommended location, or scan and e-mail me the sketch that Van provided. Thanks, Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) Ottawa, Canada http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8 do not archive ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:19:04 AM PST US From: Kevin Horton Subject: RV-List: Altimeter movements on landing roll I'm communicating with an RV-6 owner who has noted interesting altimeter movements as the aircraft slows down on the runway after landing. He says that "from touchdown to stop, the alitmeter goes down forty feet". I'm betting the altimeter isn't getting much attention during the landing roll, but I would be interested in hearing from anyone who has paid attention to what it does. Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) Ottawa, Canada http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8 do not archive ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:08:44 AM PST US From: "Tom & Cathy Ervin" Subject: Re: RV-List: All electric RV! Dean, I am as "Thrifty" as the next guy but I a have a B&C set up on my RV6-A and it will be the same on the Rocket I am building. Tom in Sunny Ohio (10G) ----- Original Message ----- From: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 1:57 AM Subject: RV-List: All electric RV! > > > Gotta agree with Dan here. Last year about this time I was trying to > finalize my electrical system and had decided that I was going to add a > second alternator on the vacuum pump pad as backup. But while I was > drawing > up everything on autocad I also did quite a bit of thinking. I have been > a > reader of the Aeroelectric list for the last 4 years. Those that partake > of > that list know that there has been much weeping and nashing of teeth in a > multi-month debate that has been raging about internally regulated versus > externally regulated alternators. > > Several people who bought internally regulated alternators from auto parts > stores (and a few from Van's) have had problems with them and some > multiple > problems. I'd heard a lot about the B&C externally regulated alternators > (modern day Nippon Denso modified for external regulation and balanced to > minimize vibration). I'd also heard that B&C had very few returns on > these > units over a long period of time and people on the list who'd used them > confirmed that premise. So....much as I did NOT want to spend the money > (about three times the price of a NEW alternator from an auto parts > store), > I returned Van's internally regulated unit and bought the B&C 60 amp unit > and regulator. > > I originally left off the backup alternator from my CAD drawings thinking > that I'd add it later and install it after the airplane flies (I've been > working on this RV-6 for 10 years and want to get it in the air). But > after > all the hallaballoo on the aeroelectric list and the talk of how reliable > the B&C alternators are, I gave it some more thought and now keep asking > myself if I need to do the aux alternator at all. Although I plan on > doing > instrument flying (when necessary) I don't expect it to be an > "all-the-time" > thing. This airplane is my traveling machine and stress reliever not an > air > taxi and if the weather is really bad I plan on staying on the ground. I > decided that since, the B&C alternator is so reliable, I have a magneto on > one side, a backup battery inside my Dynon EFIS and my mission is not IFR > all the time....there is no need to install the aux alternator right now > (or > maybe ever). > > Everything is new right now, including the alternator and I don't want to > spend the time and effort to install and wire an aux alternator into my > system right now. And, I'd rather not spend another $1000 for the unit > and > its regulator since I've gone way over budget on this airplane already. > Just > a few thoughts for you to ponder. No I don't work for B&C and, I don't > like > the price on these alternators but, if it turns out to be as reliable as > they say, it will have been worth it (and I shouldn't need to worry about > a > back up for a long time). > > Dean Psiropoulos > RV-6A N197DM > Registering and paying those use taxes, oh boy! > > > -----------------Original message----------------------------- >>From: "Dan Checkoway" >>Subject: Re: RV-List: All Electric RV ? >> >>None of the above (or below as the case may be). How much truly "in the >>solid soup" IFR flying do you really plan to do? How much soup time >>have you logged in the past 1-2 years? How many of those flights was a >>MUST scenario and not a MIGHT scenario (where you HAD to be somewhere). >>Be honest. >> >>Unless your engine depends on electrons flowing for the fan to keep >>turning (i.e. dual electronic ignition without backup such as LASAR or >>P-Mag), I'm a big proponent of KISS. And that means one battery, one >>HIGH QUALITY alternator, done deal. > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:36:11 AM PST US From: "Bret Smith" Subject: Re: RV-List: All electric RV! Dean, You have just eloquently detailed what Bob N calls the "worry bucket". Bret Smith RV-9A "Wings" Blue Ridge, GA www.FlightInnovations.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 1:57 AM Subject: RV-List: All electric RV! > > > Gotta agree with Dan here. Last year about this time I was trying to > finalize my electrical system and had decided that I was going to add a > second alternator on the vacuum pump pad as backup. But while I was > drawing > up everything on autocad I also did quite a bit of thinking. I have been > a > reader of the Aeroelectric list for the last 4 years. Those that partake > of > that list know that there has been much weeping and nashing of teeth in a > multi-month debate that has been raging about internally regulated versus > externally regulated alternators. > > Several people who bought internally regulated alternators from auto parts > stores (and a few from Van's) have had problems with them and some > multiple > problems. I'd heard a lot about the B&C externally regulated alternators > (modern day Nippon Denso modified for external regulation and balanced to > minimize vibration). I'd also heard that B&C had very few returns on > these > units over a long period of time and people on the list who'd used them > confirmed that premise. So....much as I did NOT want to spend the money > (about three times the price of a NEW alternator from an auto parts > store), > I returned Van's internally regulated unit and bought the B&C 60 amp unit > and regulator. > > I originally left off the backup alternator from my CAD drawings thinking > that I'd add it later and install it after the airplane flies (I've been > working on this RV-6 for 10 years and want to get it in the air). But > after > all the hallaballoo on the aeroelectric list and the talk of how reliable > the B&C alternators are, I gave it some more thought and now keep asking > myself if I need to do the aux alternator at all. Although I plan on > doing > instrument flying (when necessary) I don't expect it to be an > "all-the-time" > thing. This airplane is my traveling machine and stress reliever not an > air > taxi and if the weather is really bad I plan on staying on the ground. I > decided that since, the B&C alternator is so reliable, I have a magneto on > one side, a backup battery inside my Dynon EFIS and my mission is not IFR > all the time....there is no need to install the aux alternator right now > (or > maybe ever). > > Everything is new right now, including the alternator and I don't want to > spend the time and effort to install and wire an aux alternator into my > system right now. And, I'd rather not spend another $1000 for the unit > and > its regulator since I've gone way over budget on this airplane already. > Just > a few thoughts for you to ponder. No I don't work for B&C and, I don't > like > the price on these alternators but, if it turns out to be as reliable as > they say, it will have been worth it (and I shouldn't need to worry about > a > back up for a long time). > > Dean Psiropoulos > RV-6A N197DM > Registering and paying those use taxes, oh boy! > > > -----------------Original message----------------------------- >>From: "Dan Checkoway" >>Subject: Re: RV-List: All Electric RV ? >> >>None of the above (or below as the case may be). How much truly "in the >>solid soup" IFR flying do you really plan to do? How much soup time >>have you logged in the past 1-2 years? How many of those flights was a >>MUST scenario and not a MIGHT scenario (where you HAD to be somewhere). >>Be honest. >> >>Unless your engine depends on electrons flowing for the fan to keep >>turning (i.e. dual electronic ignition without backup such as LASAR or >>P-Mag), I'm a big proponent of KISS. And that means one battery, one >>HIGH QUALITY alternator, done deal. > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:53:14 AM PST US Subject: RV-List: Engine monitor survey From: "Bob Collins" I'm trying to put a thing together for the Hotline, similar to what I did for transition training; basically, folks reviewing their choices for engine monitors and, hopefully, both a pro and con perspective. Add it all up and it I think it provides a good companion to an interesting article in Kitplanes this month. I haven't had a heck of a lot of success with the Yahoogroup, so I'm sur the RV list will be better. I've got a series of about 6 questions. If you're in the mood, let me know and I'll send them to you. Email me at bcollinsrv7a(at)comcast.net. and thanks! -------- Bob Collins St. Paul, Minn. RV Builder's Hotline (free!) http://rvhotline.expercraft.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=94972#94972 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:20:05 AM PST US From: "Bob J." Subject: Re: RV-List: All electric RV! I have a Niagara alternator in the -6, and have had zero issues with it in over 600 hours, after going thru two Van's rebuilt alternators. Its the same ND alternator that B&C modifies. I have the same thing on the Rocket. Why anyone would want an alternator with an external regulator is beyond me, because there are several technical reasons why they are designed the way they are to begin with. I drank the ext. regulator kool-aid when I didn't know better! FWIW I horsetraded for a used B&C starter that needed to be rebuilt. When I called B&C they wanted $150 for a new brush assembly. I took it over to a friend's starter shop, he put new brushes in it, cost to replace the brushes was $5.00. Just because you pay more doesn't necessarily make something better. Regards, Bob Japundza RV-6 flying F1 under const. do not archive ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:20:05 AM PST US From: "Brian Meyette" Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M This description certainly sounds a lot different from previous accounts I've read. If true that he was alive and talking to people as he was being burned to death, with only a broken leg from the crash, that is quite a different matter and might explain what had seemed to most of us to be a egregious verdict. Brian -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bob Collins Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 5:55 PM Subject: RV-List: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M Interesting new stuff from Aircraft Maintenance Technology today. Turns out the fire crews did testify. http://www.amtonline.com/article/article.jsp?siteSection=1&id=3391 (http://www.amtonline.com/article/article.jsp?siteSection=1&id=3391) -------- Bob Collins St. Paul, Minn. RV Builder's Hotline (free!) http://rvhotline.expercraft.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=94828#94828 -- 1:23 PM -- 7:54 AM ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:54:47 AM PST US From: Steve Allison Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-6 static port location? Kevin Horton wrote: > > I'm communicating with someone who is chasing a static system accuracy > issue on an RV-6. He didn't build the aircraft, and he can't find the > info on where Van recommends putting the pop rivets for the static > ports. I'd appreciate it if an RV-6 builder could either provide a > detailed description of the recommended location, or scan and e-mail > me the sketch that Van provided. From the RV-6 builders manual, Figure 8-15: 1 inch forward of bulkhead F-607 2.5 inches below the longeron Steve RV-6A wiring ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:09:05 AM PST US From: "David Leonard" Subject: Re: RV-List: Altimeter movements on landing roll Sounds like a static port issue (low pressure area around the static port). Dave Leonard On 2/14/07, Kevin Horton wrote: > > > I'm communicating with an RV-6 owner who has noted interesting > altimeter movements as the aircraft slows down on the runway after > landing. He says that "from touchdown to stop, the alitmeter goes > down forty feet". > > I'm betting the altimeter isn't getting much attention during the > landing roll, but I would be interested in hearing from anyone who > has paid attention to what it does. > > Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) > Ottawa, Canada > http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8 > do not archive > > -- David Leonard Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY My websites at: http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/rotaryroster/index.html http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/vp4skydoc/index.html http://leonardiniraq.blogspot.com ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:10:54 AM PST US From: "Bob Collins" Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M There was no question that he was alive and talking to people. Both sides in the motions I wrote about verified this. The "broken leg" angle is a new one, and I'm not sure I believe it. The Corbitt's attorney described him as being "alive and well," which also might embellish his state a little more. But if you look at the two motions that I posted, it's quite like each side was at two different crashes. And the EAA's motion seemed to say -- that while he was alive, he was probably going to die anyway. I would like to see the transcripts of the firefighters testimony or depositions, however. And I believe there is no question that the firefighters hooked up their lines improperly and then used water on a fuel fire. To what extent that hastened his demise, I don't know, of course. The one thing that took me by surprise is this assertion "Smith also uncovered EAA documents that required the regional group arrange for full-time fire protection with a turret fire truck and trained airport rescue firefighters." That's the first I'd heard of this. Also, the writer -- who did not cover the trial -- said the town's fire chief said the fire should have been put out in 90 seconds. It wouldn't surprise me that the writer has this person confused with the gentleman from Virginia, the head of fire units at airports there, who said that. Keep in mind, only one side was quoted in this article as the other side didn't return the writers phone calls. Not sure why, but a lot of people think "no comment" makes stories go away. It doesn't. It only makes your side of the story go away. Bob Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Meyette Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 9:16 AM Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M --> This description certainly sounds a lot different from previous accounts I've read. If true that he was alive and talking to people as he was being burned to death, with only a broken leg from the crash, that is quite a different matter and might explain what had seemed to most of us to be a egregious verdict. Brian -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bob Collins Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 5:55 PM Subject: RV-List: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M Interesting new stuff from Aircraft Maintenance Technology today. Turns out the fire crews did testify. http://www.amtonline.com/article/article.jsp?siteSection=1&id=3391 (http://www.amtonline.com/article/article.jsp?siteSection=1&id=3391) -------- Bob Collins St. Paul, Minn. RV Builder's Hotline (free!) http://rvhotline.expercraft.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=94828#94828 -- 1:23 PM -- 7:54 AM ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:31:51 AM PST US From: "David Leonard" Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M You have got to be kidding me. Even if the crash didn't kill him, it still caused the fire that did kill him. He still built the plane that trapped him. He also crashed the plane causing himself to become trapped. How can that only be 15% responsible for his own death??? Sounds more like 90-100% to me. If he was so 'alive and well' why didn't he use his own fire extinguisher to put it out while it was still small? (*(*^^^%$$n lawyers! Dave Leonard On 2/14/07, Brian Meyette wrote: > > > This description certainly sounds a lot different from previous accounts > I've read. If true that he was alive and talking to people as he was > being > burned to death, with only a broken leg from the crash, that is quite a > different matter and might explain what had seemed to most of us to be a > egregious verdict. > Brian > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bob Collins > Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 5:55 PM > To: rv-list@matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M > > > Interesting new stuff from Aircraft Maintenance Technology today. Turns > out > the fire crews did testify. > > http://www.amtonline.com/article/article.jsp?siteSection=1&id=3391 > (http://www.amtonline.com/article/article.jsp?siteSection=1&id=3391) > > -------- > Bob Collins > St. Paul, Minn. > RV Builder's Hotline (free!) > http://rvhotline.expercraft.com > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=94828#94828 > > > -- > 1:23 PM > > -- > 7:54 AM > > -- David Leonard Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY My websites at: http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/rotaryroster/index.html http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/vp4skydoc/index.html http://leonardiniraq.blogspot.com ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:37:04 AM PST US From: "Al Grajek" Subject: RV-List: Rv8 Tail Kit for sale Sorry, Gang. I forgot to list the price. Ill take $1000. I am in Lexington, Ky Jetjoc ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:58:16 AM PST US From: Kevin Horton Subject: Re: RV-List: Altimeter movements on landing roll Yes, this could be caused by static system position error. But, the aircraft supposedly has Van's standard pop-rivet static ports, so I wonder why this aircraft is different from the others. I have asked him to do a static system leak check, as this is another possible cause. Kevin On Wed, 14 Feb 2007 08:06:33 -0800 "David Leonard" wrote: > Sounds like a static port issue (low pressure area around the static port). > > Dave Leonard > > > On 2/14/07, Kevin Horton wrote: > > > > > > I'm communicating with an RV-6 owner who has noted interesting > > altimeter movements as the aircraft slows down on the runway after > > landing. He says that "from touchdown to stop, the alitmeter goes > > down forty feet". > > > > I'm betting the altimeter isn't getting much attention during the > > landing roll, but I would be interested in hearing from anyone who > > has paid attention to what it does. > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:10:09 AM PST US From: "Tim Bryan" Subject: RE: RV-List: RV-6 static port location? And on both sides. In case it wasn't obviously known. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list- > server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve Allison > Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 9:51 AM > To: rv-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-6 static port location? > > > Kevin Horton wrote: > > > > I'm communicating with someone who is chasing a static system accuracy > > issue on an RV-6. He didn't build the aircraft, and he can't find the > > info on where Van recommends putting the pop rivets for the static > > ports. I'd appreciate it if an RV-6 builder could either provide a > > detailed description of the recommended location, or scan and e-mail > > me the sketch that Van provided. > > From the RV-6 builders manual, Figure 8-15: > > 1 inch forward of bulkhead F-607 > 2.5 inches below the longeron > > > Steve > RV-6A wiring > > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:10:36 AM PST US From: "Tim Bryan" Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M If you read this story (and believe it) there was no reason why the crash victim didn't just step out of the wreck and walk away from it (or hobble as his leg was broke). The story said he was standing up in the plane talking to them. This is bunk! He was trapped by the wreckage and he knew he was going to die as his comments to the first people to arrive were "Forget it, I am already dead". Do Not Archive > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list- > server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Meyette > Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 9:16 AM > To: rv-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M > > > This description certainly sounds a lot different from previous accounts > I've read. If true that he was alive and talking to people as he was > being > burned to death, with only a broken leg from the crash, that is quite a > different matter and might explain what had seemed to most of us to be a > egregious verdict. > Brian > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bob Collins > Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 5:55 PM > To: rv-list@matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M > > > Interesting new stuff from Aircraft Maintenance Technology today. Turns > out > the fire crews did testify. > > http://www.amtonline.com/article/article.jsp?siteSection=1&id=3391 > (http://www.amtonline.com/article/article.jsp?siteSection=1&id=3391) > > -------- > Bob Collins > St. Paul, Minn. > RV Builder's Hotline (free!) > http://rvhotline.expercraft.com > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=94828#94828 > > > > > > > > > > > -- > 1:23 PM > > -- > 7:54 AM > > > > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:15:29 AM PST US From: "don wentz" Subject: RE: RV-List: Duckworks Light Dimensions Hi Kyle, As the maker of the Duckworks Landing Lights, I just wanted to pass along that I have and do make any portions of my kits available to those who need an install =91for their own lamp/reflector=92. I can provide the whole kit minus the light, which would give you instructions, templates, lens, hardware, etc., or, any sub-parts. I know that sometimes a guy just wants to use =91something else=92, so I do what I can to minimize that effort for you. In addition, I=92m happy to help you come-up with a mounting solution for your lamp, or at least be a sounding board for your ideas, to assist you. Finally, we do offer 3 versions of the kits, the 55w halogen original, a 100w Round PAR-36 Halogen, and the Round PAR-36 HID/Xenon. Our HID uses the top of the line Phillips Bulb and Ballast in the D1S format. Each of the round lamps are available as upgrades to my (and other) kit installations, and install very easily, using the original mounting holes, in just a few minutes. Just wanted to make sure you all knew about the options and that I am more than happy to help in any way I can. Keep building, it=92s worth it! Don =91The Duck=92 Wentz HYPERLINK "http://www.duckworksaviation.com/"www.duckworksaviation.com RV-6 N790DW 980hrs (completed in 94) _____ From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kyle Boatright Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 6:03 PM Subject: RV-List: Duckworks Light Dimensions I'm looking for a couple of dimensions from the "standard" duckworks landing light kit, and hope someone can help me out. First, what is the overall width of the cutout in the leading edge? Second, what is the overall height of the cutout in the leading edge? (Note, I need the height of the opening in a wing, not the template dimension). Third, I need the height of the aluminum backing plate for the light. You ask why? I'm scouring the web for a cheap HID upgrade that'll fit without too much work. Thanks in advance... Kyle Boatright 2/13/2007 -- 2/13/2007 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 09:23:12 AM PST US From: "Terry Watson" Subject: RE: RV-List: RV-6 static port location? Kevin, Have a look at the instructions that came with your RV-8 kit. They might be the same instructions as for the 6. Terry -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Horton Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 3:05 AM Subject: RV-List: RV-6 static port location? I'm communicating with someone who is chasing a static system accuracy issue on an RV-6. He didn't build the aircraft, and he can't find the info on where Van recommends putting the pop rivets for the static ports. I'd appreciate it if an RV-6 builder could either provide a detailed description of the recommended location, or scan and e-mail me the sketch that Van provided. Thanks, Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) Ottawa, Canada http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8 do not archive ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 10:48:58 AM PST US Subject: RV-List: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M From: "Bob Collins" That was the testimony of one witness. I'm unfamiliar if any others heard it. His testimony, specifically was: "Did you ever talk to him?" Swift was asked. "Not an open conversation," Swift testified. "What were the first things he said to you?" "He said, 'I'm a dead man.,'" Swift said. *** The "forget it" part is new to me. However, it's important to remember that Swift's testimony doesn't make it fact. It doesn't make it not fact. It makes it his testimony. But there was also Peter Ali and Simon Butler, who submitted depositions in February 2006 to that effect. Ali said he arrived at the crash site about three minutes after the crash and, "the pilot was standing up in the middle of the aircraft and it looked like he still had some straps on -- apparently seat belt straps -- and he stood during the entire ordeal as the men were trying to keep the flames at bay with small extinguishers. People were yelling at the pilot to try and cut loose and get out of the aircraft," he said. Do not archive -------- Bob Collins St. Paul, Minn. RV Builder's Hotline (free!) http://rvhotline.expercraft.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p-039#95039 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 11:57:18 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M From: "Lloyd, Daniel R." Another thought on the standing up issue, the report states that the plane came to rest on its nose with the tail in the air. With a 5 point harness, and a person dangling in the seat would it not appear that they were standing up, slightly bent over? This from a perspective of the non-flying public who were the first on the scene? And how is 15% at fault determined when the crash would not have happened in the first place without pilot error. Also did anyone catch he built the plane? He was a buyer not a builder! Forced to back taxi? He went to the wrong end of the runway! He was a low time pilot, in a hurry to depart, did a piss poor preflight, and bought the farm for it. Short and simple. Dan -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Collins Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 1:46 PM Subject: RV-List: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M That was the testimony of one witness. I'm unfamiliar if any others heard it. His testimony, specifically was: "Did you ever talk to him?" Swift was asked. "Not an open conversation," Swift testified. "What were the first things he said to you?" "He said, 'I'm a dead man.,'" Swift said. *** The "forget it" part is new to me. However, it's important to remember that Swift's testimony doesn't make it fact. It doesn't make it not fact. It makes it his testimony. But there was also Peter Ali and Simon Butler, who submitted depositions in February 2006 to that effect. Ali said he arrived at the crash site about three minutes after the crash and, "the pilot was standing up in the middle of the aircraft and it looked like he still had some straps on -- apparently seat belt straps -- and he stood during the entire ordeal as the men were trying to keep the flames at bay with small extinguishers. People were yelling at the pilot to try and cut loose and get out of the aircraft," he said. Do not archive -------- Bob Collins St. Paul, Minn. RV Builder's Hotline (free!) http://rvhotline.expercraft.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p-039#95039 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 12:03:55 PM PST US Subject: RV-List: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M From: "Bob Collins" That's what I've been wondering too. I didn't see how someone could be both strapped in their seat AND standing up. One of the witnesses -- and I can't offhand remember who it was -- testified that he moved the tail to get at the guy. So, yeah, if the thing came in nose first, I suppose technially it looked like he was standing up. Do not archive -------- Bob Collins St. Paul, Minn. RV Builder's Hotline (free!) http://rvhotline.expercraft.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p-054#95054 ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 12:09:14 PM PST US Subject: RV-List: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M From: "Bob Collins" //And how is 15% at fault determined when the crash would not have happened in the first place without pilot error. The best example I can come up with is the chain-of-errors thing that we've always been taught. Just one error won't kill you, but if a chain of them, will. Even breaking one chain would prevent an accident. Back up a little bit in the case and you'll see the answer. One of the reasons the EAA was held liable is because they (1) Held a fly-in and (2) "Invited" Mr. Corbitt in. The "what if" can go on and on. He wouldn't have died if he hadn't crashed. True. He wouldn't have crashed if he hadn't flown in. True. He wouldn't have flown in if he hadn't been "invited." True. He wouldn't have been invited if there hadn't been a fly-in. True. Trying to find where the "chain of events" started... as with any chain... isn't always easy. And in this case, it also wasn't a fact in dispute. He died because his plane crashed. But is that the only reason he died? THAT's the question the jury appeared to have wrestled with and what much of the case was about. -------- Bob Collins St. Paul, Minn. RV Builder's Hotline (free!) http://rvhotline.expercraft.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p-058#95058 ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 12:43:38 PM PST US Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M From: "Lloyd, Daniel R." True that they invited him, but they did not make him hurry or rish the pre-flight or taxi to the wrong end of the runway. Nor did they make him as a low time pilot make the decisions he did. End result is personal responsibility. But I know it is different in this case because he would likely say it was his fault, but it is his wife and her "outstanding lawyer" that made the assertion of who was to blame. Sad situation and hope the defense gets a better lawyer on appeal.\ Dan -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Collins Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 3:09 PM Subject: RV-List: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M //And how is 15% at fault determined when the crash would not have happened in the first place without pilot error. The best example I can come up with is the chain-of-errors thing that we've always been taught. Just one error won't kill you, but if a chain of them, will. Even breaking one chain would prevent an accident. Back up a little bit in the case and you'll see the answer. One of the reasons the EAA was held liable is because they (1) Held a fly-in and (2) "Invited" Mr. Corbitt in. The "what if" can go on and on. He wouldn't have died if he hadn't crashed. True. He wouldn't have crashed if he hadn't flown in. True. He wouldn't have flown in if he hadn't been "invited." True. He wouldn't have been invited if there hadn't been a fly-in. True. Trying to find where the "chain of events" started... as with any chain... isn't always easy. And in this case, it also wasn't a fact in dispute. He died because his plane crashed. But is that the only reason he died? THAT's the question the jury appeared to have wrestled with and what much of the case was about. -------- Bob Collins St. Paul, Minn. RV Builder's Hotline (free!) http://rvhotline.expercraft.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p-058#95058 ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 12:47:08 PM PST US From: "Brian Meyette" Subject: RE: RV-List: Duckworks Light Dimensions Now thats customer service! Don was also very flexible and helpful when I was installing my Duckworks lights. brian -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of don wentz Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 12:15 PM Subject: RE: RV-List: Duckworks Light Dimensions Hi Kyle, As the maker of the Duckworks Landing Lights, I just wanted to pass along that I have and do make any portions of my kits available to those who need an install for their own lamp/reflector. I can provide the whole kit minus the light, which would give you instructions, templates, lens, hardware, etc., or, any sub-parts. I know that sometimes a guy just wants to use something else, so I do what I can to minimize that effort for you. In addition, Im happy to help you come-up with a mounting solution for your lamp, or at least be a sounding board for your ideas, to assist you. Finally, we do offer 3 versions of the kits, the 55w halogen original, a 100w Round PAR-36 Halogen, and the Round PAR-36 HID/Xenon. Our HID uses the top of the line Phillips Bulb and Ballast in the D1S format. Each of the round lamps are available as upgrades to my (and other) kit installations, and install very easily, using the original mounting holes, in just a few minutes. Just wanted to make sure you all knew about the options and that I am more than happy to help in any way I can. Keep building, its worth it! Don The Duck Wentz www.duckworksaviation.com RV-6 N790DW 980hrs (completed in 94) _____ From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kyle Boatright Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 6:03 PM Subject: RV-List: Duckworks Light Dimensions I'm looking for a couple of dimensions from the "standard" duckworks landing light kit, and hope someone can help me out. First, what is the overall width of the cutout in the leading edge? Second, what is the overall height of the cutout in the leading edge? (Note, I need the height of the opening in a wing, not the template dimension). Third, I need the height of the aluminum backing plate for the light. You ask why? I'm scouring the web for a cheap HID upgrade that'll fit without too much work. Thanks in advance... Kyle Boatright -- Release Date: 2/13/2007 -- 2/13/2007 -- 7:54 AM ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 01:03:20 PM PST US Subject: RV-List: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M From: "Bob Collins" LloydDR(at)wernerco.com wrote: > True that they invited him, but they did not make him hurry or rish the > pre-flight or taxi to the wrong end of the runway. Nor did they make him > as a low time pilot make the decisions he did. End result is personal > responsibility. > But I know it is different in this case because he would likely say it > was his fault, but it is his wife and her "outstanding lawyer" that made > the assertion of who was to blame. > Sad situation and hope the defense gets a better lawyer on appeal. > Dan > -- Well, you're right of course, Dan. If he hadn't flown in, he would not be dead. But I think we have to approach this from a more legal perspective. It's a given that he died because he crashed his plane. But what if he COULD have lived had the fire department not taken so much time getting their equipment on, hadn't screwed up while connecting the hoses, and had used a foam suppressant instead of water on a fuel-fed fire. Let's say he could have lived if any of those things testimony suggested the fire department did hadn't been done. Then did he still die ONLY because he crashed his plane? I don't think so. I think he died for a couple of reasons. And that's what the jury was asked to decide and, indeed, decided. The "personal respnsibility" thing is a difficult proposition that sounds simple. You're respnosible for 100% of your own actions but it doesn't take much, as I said, to find the flaws in it because it's usually applied in a limited manner. What would make it difficult in this case? What if there had been a passenger who didn't rush his takeoff, who didn't stall the plane and yet did suffer the same consequences of burning to death? Does he have the same liability as the pilot? Do not archive -------- Bob Collins St. Paul, Minn. RV Builder's Hotline (free!) http://rvhotline.expercraft.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p-069#95069 ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 01:44:03 PM PST US Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M From: "Lloyd, Daniel R." I guess this is my personal opinion, but the only way I could find fault with the fire department is if by spraying the water they caused him to die. My point in this whole thing is personal responsibility, and for me, and only for me and my opinion, even if the fire department did not show up, I chose to partake in an inherently risky adventure and if I died while trying to do it then so be it. The only way I would find fault with another in this situation is if they poured and lit the AVGAS on me, other than that I chose to partake in the activity, and I crashed, I killed myself, no different if I crash in front of a crowd, or at a lonely, out of the way airfield that has no fire support. My hobby, my responsibility, and yes, my wife and I have discussed this, and unless someone sets me on fire, or runs me over in a TBM, it was my fault and there is no way she should sue, I have the appropriate life insurance and savings to take care of her and the children, so greed is not there. The wife in this situation is also well taken care of in the sense that he retired wealthy at 38 from Microsoft, so she/the lawyer is just being greedy. Once again, my opinion. Tort reform needs to be enacted to reduce these types of scenario's Dan -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Collins Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 4:02 PM Subject: RV-List: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M LloydDR(at)wernerco.com wrote: > True that they invited him, but they did not make him hurry or rish the > pre-flight or taxi to the wrong end of the runway. Nor did they make him > as a low time pilot make the decisions he did. End result is personal > responsibility. > But I know it is different in this case because he would likely say it > was his fault, but it is his wife and her "outstanding lawyer" that made > the assertion of who was to blame. > Sad situation and hope the defense gets a better lawyer on appeal. > Dan > -- Well, you're right of course, Dan. If he hadn't flown in, he would not be dead. But I think we have to approach this from a more legal perspective. It's a given that he died because he crashed his plane. But what if he COULD have lived had the fire department not taken so much time getting their equipment on, hadn't screwed up while connecting the hoses, and had used a foam suppressant instead of water on a fuel-fed fire. Let's say he could have lived if any of those things testimony suggested the fire department did hadn't been done. Then did he still die ONLY because he crashed his plane? I don't think so. I think he died for a couple of reasons. And that's what the jury was asked to decide and, indeed, decided. The "personal respnsibility" thing is a difficult proposition that sounds simple. You're respnosible for 100% of your own actions but it doesn't take much, as I said, to find the flaws in it because it's usually applied in a limited manner. What would make it difficult in this case? What if there had been a passenger who didn't rush his takeoff, who didn't stall the plane and yet did suffer the same consequences of burning to death? Does he have the same liability as the pilot? Do not archive -------- Bob Collins St. Paul, Minn. RV Builder's Hotline (free!) http://rvhotline.expercraft.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p-069#95069 ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 01:46:22 PM PST US From: Ron Lee Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M >True that they invited him, but they did not make him hurry or rish the >pre-flight or taxi to the wrong end of the runway. Nor did they make him >as a low time pilot make the decisions he did. End result is personal >responsibility. >But I know it is different in this case because he would likely say it >was his fault, but it is his wife and her "outstanding lawyer" that made >the assertion of who was to blame. >Sad situation and hope the defense gets a better lawyer on appeal.\ >Dan I will repeat my view that if I die doing something as suicidally bone-headed as this person may have done, I do not want anyone to be sued for my stupidity. Add appropriate legalese crap being of sound mind and body and stuff. Ron Lee N54RL RV-6A ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 01:47:15 PM PST US From: "Gerry Filby" Subject: RV-List: Why does my engine back-fire ? (Not just my engine - just about every RV I've ever come across.) It does it when I pull the throttle to idle, even if I do it fairly slowly ... and if I lean too far in flight ... I was thinking that idle throttle, or lean mixture means less fuel - so what's to burn in the exhaust ? g ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 02:32:20 PM PST US From: "n801bh@netzero.com" Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M LloydDR(at)wernerco.com wrote: > True that they invited him, but they did not make him hurry or rish th e > pre-flight or taxi to the wrong end of the runway. Nor did they make h im > as a low time pilot make the decisions he did. End result is personal > responsibility. > But I know it is different in this case because he would likely say it > was his fault, but it is his wife and her "outstanding lawyer" that ma de > the assertion of who was to blame. > Sad situation and hope the defense gets a better lawyer on appeal. > Dan > -- The fact that the lawyer determined that burning to death should be com pensated at 1 million a minute is stupid. They claim it took 5 minuted t o die so the family gets 5 million. I still contend that the pilot caus ed his death because of poor piloting skills/ improper preflight/showing off in front of the crowd. God only knows the real reason. What about t he 10's 100's maybe thousands of human beings that witnessed a person bu rn to death because of his own negligence. Those people should file suit against the widow for mental anguish because "her" husband scarred the thoughts of all those people for life..... So back to the 1 million a mi nute theory. All spectators should be paid 5 million each for viewing th is crash. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. do not archive Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com : ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== ===========

LloydDR(at)wernerco.com wrote:
> True that they invited h im, but they did not make him hurry or rish the
> pre-flight or ta xi to the wrong end of the runway. Nor did they make him
> as a lo w time pilot make the decisions he did. End result is personal
> r esponsibility.
> But I know it is different in this case because h e would likely say it
> was his fault, but it is his wife and her "outstanding lawyer" that made
> the assertion of who was to blame .
> Sad situation and hope the defense gets a better lawyer on app eal.
> Dan
> --
 

The fact  that the lawyer determined that burning to death shoul d be compensated at 1 million a minute is stupid. They claim it took 5 m inuted to die so the family gets 5 million.  I still contend that t he pilot caused his death because of poor piloting skills/ improper pref light/showing off in front of the crowd. God only knows the real reason. What about the 10's 100's maybe thousands of human beings that witnesse d a person burn to death because of his own negligence. Those people sho uld file suit against the widow for mental anguish because "he r" husband scarred the thoughts of all those people for life..... So bac k to the 1 million a minute theory. All spectators should be paid 5 mill ion each for viewing this crash. What's good for the goose is good for t he gander.

do not archive


Ben Haas
N801BH
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________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 03:14:56 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: RV-List: Why does my engine back-fire ? We had same problem. Potential cause is too lean mixture, which could indicate an air leak in carb. In our case, there were some burrs in the throttle body of the carb. We had to send away to get corrected. It is much, much better now and only cracks or pops only occasionally. RV-6, Lycoming O-360-A1A. ----- Original Message ----- From: Gerry Filby To: rv-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 4:46 PM Subject: RV-List: Why does my engine back-fire ? (Not just my engine - just about every RV I've ever come across.) It does it when I pull the throttle to idle, even if I do it fairly slowly ... and if I lean too far in flight ... I was thinking that idle throttle, or lean mixture means less fuel - so what's to burn in the exhaust ? g ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 03:29:00 PM PST US From: Ron Lee Subject: Re: RV-List: Why does my engine back-fire ? At 02:46 PM 2/14/2007, you wrote: >(Not just my engine - just about every RV I've ever come across.) > >It does it when I pull the throttle to idle, even if I do it fairly slowly >... and if I lean too far in flight ... > >I was thinking that idle throttle, or lean mixture means less fuel - so >what's to burn in the exhaust ? > >g Mine does not Ron Lee Do not archive ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 03:56:40 PM PST US From: "Andy Gold" Subject: Re: RV-List: Why does my engine back-fire ? Mine did too, until I started using TCP in the fuel. Andy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Lee" Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 4:28 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Why does my engine back-fire ? > > At 02:46 PM 2/14/2007, you wrote: >>(Not just my engine - just about every RV I've ever come across.) >> >>It does it when I pull the throttle to idle, even if I do it fairly slowly >>... and if I lean too far in flight ... >> >>I was thinking that idle throttle, or lean mixture means less fuel - so >>what's to burn in the exhaust ? >> >>g > > Mine does not > > Ron Lee > > Do not archive > > > ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 03:56:52 PM PST US From: Darrell Reiley Subject: Re: RV-List: Why does my engine back-fire ? If I'm not mistaken, an intake tube sucking air will also cause this problem. Darrell --- dwhite17@columbus.rr.com wrote: > We had same problem. Potential cause is too lean > mixture, which could indicate an air leak in carb. > In our case, there were some burrs in the throttle > body of the carb. We had to send away to get > corrected. It is much, much better now and only > cracks or pops only occasionally. > > RV-6, Lycoming O-360-A1A. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Gerry Filby > To: rv-list@matronics.com > Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 4:46 PM > Subject: RV-List: Why does my engine back-fire ? > > > (Not just my engine - just about every RV I've > ever come across.) > > It does it when I pull the throttle to idle, even > if I do it fairly slowly ... and if I lean too far > in flight ... > > I was thinking that idle throttle, or lean mixture > means less fuel - so what's to burn in the exhaust ? > > g > > > > > > Any questions? Get answers on any topic at www.Answers.yahoo.com. Try it now. ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 04:01:11 PM PST US Subject: RV-List: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M From: "Bob Collins" n801bh(at)netzero.com wrote: > LloydDR(at)wernerco.com wrote: > The fact that the lawyer determined that burning to death should be compensated at 1 million a minute is stupid. They claim it took 5 minuted to die so the family gets 5 million. I still contend that the pilot caused his death because of poor piloting skills/ improper preflight/showing off in front of the crowd. God only knows the real reason. What about the 10's 100's maybe thousands of human beings that witnessed a person burn to death because of his own negligence. I didn't see anything in the testimony that made any claim that the pilot was showing off at the time. Nor do I believe the calculation of the money had anything to do with how long it took him to die. I believe it was calculated based on the lost earnings potential. The theory about "he was flying, it's his fault" is an interesting one. But when we get in trouble, a fire, a crash, a mugging... we EXPECT the people we call to respond. Why? When the cops don't show up, we get upset. Why? Maybe we shouldn't have been walking down that street. Or maybe we shouldn't have bought a house that could catch fire. Silly? Of course it is. The fact is that personal responsibility or no personal responsibility, we all have our OWN responsibilities that aren't waived because of someone else's. If your responsibility is to be on a fire crew, you have a responsibility to perform your tasks dutifully. Now maybe they did and maybe they didn't. But that question isn't irrelevant. Beyond that, I think a lot of folks have missed the real point of the litigation. IF the fire crews themselves were deemed NOT liable in this case -- because Washington state law gives the city of Arlington immunity -- then how on earth can that liability then be transferred to the EAA? THAT is the question. -------- Bob Collins St. Paul, Minn. RV Builder's Hotline (free!) http://rvhotline.expercraft.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p-112#95112 ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 04:05:35 PM PST US From: Dave Nellis Subject: Re: RV-List: Why does my engine back-fire ? Check this link out and see if it helps. Dave http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Back-fire --- dwhite17@columbus.rr.com wrote: > We had same problem. Potential cause is too lean > mixture, which could indicate an air leak in carb. > In our case, there were some burrs in the throttle > body of the carb. We had to send away to get > corrected. It is much, much better now and only > cracks or pops only occasionally. > > RV-6, Lycoming O-360-A1A. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Gerry Filby > To: rv-list@matronics.com > Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 4:46 PM > Subject: RV-List: Why does my engine back-fire ? > > > (Not just my engine - just about every RV I've > ever come across.) > > It does it when I pull the throttle to idle, even > if I do it fairly slowly ... and if I lean too far > in flight ... > > I was thinking that idle throttle, or lean mixture > means less fuel - so what's to burn in the exhaust ? > > g > > > > > > Cheap talk? ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 04:24:03 PM PST US From: "Tom Gummo" Subject: Re: RV-List: Why does my engine back-fire ? I had a leak in the induction system of my FI system. Extra air means extra lean. Leak fixed, backfires stopped. Tom Gummo Apple Valley, CA Harmon Rocket-II do not archive http://mysite.verizon.net/t.gummo/index.html ----- Original Message ----- From: Gerry Filby To: rv-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 1:46 PM Subject: RV-List: Why does my engine back-fire ? (Not just my engine - just about every RV I've ever come across.) It does it when I pull the throttle to idle, even if I do it fairly slowly ... and if I lean too far in flight ... I was thinking that idle throttle, or lean mixture means less fuel - so what's to burn in the exhaust ? g ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 05:03:08 PM PST US From: "David Schaefer" Subject: RV-List: A&P Recomendation at KRIC A friend is looking at buying a spam can in Richmond, VA (don't ask why! ;-) ). Does anyone have a recommendation for a good A&P that can do a pre-buy inspection in the area? Please email me off line. Thank you, David W. Schaefer RV6-A N142DS www.n142ds.com ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 05:36:50 PM PST US Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M From: "Lloyd, Daniel R." You need to re-read the article it states the lawyer determined a million a minute was fair, and that was how they determined the amount. No matter how we dice it, and regardless of what the suite was about, I think the amount of the finding was ridiculous. Dan -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Collins Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 7:01 PM Subject: RV-List: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M n801bh(at)netzero.com wrote: > LloydDR(at)wernerco.com wrote: > The fact that the lawyer determined that burning to death should be compensated at 1 million a minute is stupid. They claim it took 5 minuted to die so the family gets 5 million. I still contend that the pilot caused his death because of poor piloting skills/ improper preflight/showing off in front of the crowd. God only knows the real reason. What about the 10's 100's maybe thousands of human beings that witnessed a person burn to death because of his own negligence. I didn't see anything in the testimony that made any claim that the pilot was showing off at the time. Nor do I believe the calculation of the money had anything to do with how long it took him to die. I believe it was calculated based on the lost earnings potential. The theory about "he was flying, it's his fault" is an interesting one. But when we get in trouble, a fire, a crash, a mugging... we EXPECT the people we call to respond. Why? When the cops don't show up, we get upset. Why? Maybe we shouldn't have been walking down that street. Or maybe we shouldn't have bought a house that could catch fire. Silly? Of course it is. The fact is that personal responsibility or no personal responsibility, we all have our OWN responsibilities that aren't waived because of someone else's. If your responsibility is to be on a fire crew, you have a responsibility to perform your tasks dutifully. Now maybe they did and maybe they didn't. But that question isn't irrelevant. Beyond that, I think a lot of folks have missed the real point of the litigation. IF the fire crews themselves were deemed NOT liable in this case -- because Washington state law gives the city of Arlington immunity -- then how on earth can that liability then be transferred to the EAA? THAT is the question. -------- Bob Collins St. Paul, Minn. RV Builder's Hotline (free!) http://rvhotline.expercraft.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p-112#95112 ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 06:06:55 PM PST US From: scott bilinski Subject: Re: RV-List: A&P Recomendation at KRIC "A friend is looking at buying a spam can"=0A=0AIm sorry..........Oh, you w anted a helpful response..........=0A=0ADo not archive=0A =0AScott=0A=0A=0A =0A_______________________________________________________________________ _____________=0AFinding fabulous fares is fun. =0ALet Yahoo! FareChase sea rch your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains.=0Ahttp:// farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097 ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 06:45:23 PM PST US From: "David Dalton" Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M Haven't we beat this one to death yet? How about moving this conversation to the lawyers and legal forum and let's talk about building airplanes (Smile). DD On 2/14/07, Bob Collins wrote: > > > > LloydDR(at)wernerco.com wrote: > > True that they invited him, but they did not make him hurry or rish the > > pre-flight or taxi to the wrong end of the runway. Nor did they make him > > as a low time pilot make the decisions he did. End result is personal > > responsibility. > > But I know it is different in this case because he would likely say it > > was his fault, but it is his wife and her "outstanding lawyer" that made > > the assertion of who was to blame. > > Sad situation and hope the defense gets a better lawyer on appeal. > > Dan > > -- > > > Well, you're right of course, Dan. If he hadn't flown in, he would not be > dead. But I think we have to approach this from a more legal perspective. > It's a given that he died because he crashed his plane. > > But what if he COULD have lived had the fire department not taken so much > time getting their equipment on, hadn't screwed up while connecting the > hoses, and had used a foam suppressant instead of water on a fuel-fed fire. > > Let's say he could have lived if any of those things testimony > suggested the fire department did hadn't been done. Then did he still die > ONLY because he crashed his plane? > > I don't think so. I think he died for a couple of reasons. And that's what > the jury was asked to decide and, indeed, decided. > > The "personal respnsibility" thing is a difficult proposition that sounds > simple. You're respnosible for 100% of your own actions but it doesn't take > much, as I said, to find the flaws in it because it's usually applied in a > limited manner. > > What would make it difficult in this case? What if there had been a > passenger who didn't rush his takeoff, who didn't stall the plane and yet > did suffer the same consequences of burning to death? Does he have the same > liability as the pilot? > > Do not archive > > -------- > Bob Collins > St. Paul, Minn. > RV Builder's Hotline (free!) > http://rvhotline.expercraft.com > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p-069#95069 > > ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 06:51:08 PM PST US From: "Bill Boyd" Subject: Re: RV-List: Why does my engine back-fire ? Backfire? Or afterfire? Two different problems, if I understand correctly. Is the fire coming out the exhaust, or the air intake? When I close the throttle quickly, I get some popping, but always assumed it was after-firing, from mixture going rich. Never seen any evidence that the air filter was being hit with a flame front, but I'm out of my expertise here. Anyone? -Stormy On 2/14/07, Tom Gummo wrote: > > > I had a leak in the induction system of my FI system. Extra air means extra > lean. > Leak fixed, backfires stopped. > > Tom Gummo > Apple Valley, CA > Harmon Rocket-II > > do not archive > > http://mysite.verizon.net/t.gummo/index.html > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Gerry Filby > To: rv-list@matronics.com > Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 1:46 PM > Subject: RV-List: Why does my engine back-fire ? > > (Not just my engine - just about every RV I've ever come across.) > > It does it when I pull the throttle to idle, even if I do it fairly slowly > ... and if I lean too far in flight ... > > I was thinking that idle throttle, or lean mixture means less fuel - so > what's to burn in the exhaust ? > > g > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > > ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 08:05:23 PM PST US Subject: RV-List: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M From: "Bob Collins" LloydDR(at)wernerco.com wrote: > You need to re-read the article it states the lawyer determined a > million a minute was fair, and that was how they determined the amount. > I did better. I read the court documents. The time it took for the man to die had nothing to do with how the how the amount was determined. The documents are posted online if you'd like to read them. And while I'm sure the work of the writer in the article mention tried, nothing compares to the piece RVator John Wiegenstein wrote. (http://rvhotline.expercraft.com/articles/2007/eaa_court_motion_result.html) Beyond that, I'm still anxious to find out what changes the EAA has made since the accident at this particular fly-in. Even better, I'll be anxious to hear if anything noticeable changes at Sun n' Fun. -------- Bob Collins St. Paul, Minn. RV Builder's Hotline (free!) http://rvhotline.expercraft.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p-174#95174 ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 08:50:12 PM PST US Subject: RV-List: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M From: "Bob Collins" In the process of putting together this week's Hotline, I always check to see if any NTSB investigations have been completed on RV-related incidents. Tonight I found this one (http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id 041110X01799&key=1). It's interesting -- to me -- for a number of reasons: (1) The NTSB report delves deeply into the construction of the nosegear on this particular RV-6A (2) It reinforces why you should pay attention to edge distance (3) It raises some question about the advice Van's gave to a builder who called seeking advice. Apparently the builder has questions about the edge distance on a nose gear component, called Van's, and then -- according to the NTSB -- followed the instructions he was given. The nose gear collapsed, the bird flipped, the pilot died and the NTSB said he was responsible because he flew with a known deficiency. Van's told the NTSB they don't keep a record of what advice they give to an individual builder. It apparently is in the hands of an attorney. Reinforces, though, that when you're building these things, LISTEN to the voice in your head and don't automatically listen to the people who just say "build on" without knowing for sure whether that part really is compromised. Throw the part away. Make it right. -------- Bob Collins St. Paul, Minn. RV Builder's Hotline (free!) http://rvhotline.expercraft.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p-189#95189 ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 09:40:36 PM PST US From: Skylor Piper Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M Perhaps I'm missing something, but I see no discussion in the NTSB report discussing edge distance of the nose gear assembly. All of the edge distance discussion refers to the canopy support structure/roll over structure that apparently failed when the plane ended up on its back. I wonder if this accident is the reason that Van's came out with a redesign of the roll over structure for the -7's (and 6's, I think) last year. Skylor RV-8 QB Under Construction --- Bob Collins wrote: > > > In the process of putting together this week's > Hotline, I always check to see if any NTSB > investigations have been completed on RV-related > incidents. > > Tonight I found this one > (http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id 041110X01799&key=1). > > > It's interesting -- to me -- for a number of > reasons: > > (1) The NTSB report delves deeply into the > construction of the nosegear on this particular > RV-6A > (2) It reinforces why you should pay attention to > edge distance > (3) It raises some question about the advice Van's > gave to a builder who called seeking advice. > > Apparently the builder has questions about the edge > distance on a nose gear component, called Van's, and > then -- according to the NTSB -- followed the > instructions he was given. The nose gear collapsed, > the bird flipped, the pilot died and the NTSB said > he was responsible because he flew with a known > deficiency. > > Van's told the NTSB they don't keep a record of what > advice they give to an individual builder. > > It apparently is in the hands of an attorney. > > Reinforces, though, that when you're building these > things, LISTEN to the voice in your head and don't > automatically listen to the people who just say > "build on" without knowing for sure whether that > part really is compromised. > > Throw the part away. Make it right. > > -------- > Bob Collins > St. Paul, Minn. > RV Builder's Hotline (free!) > http://rvhotline.expercraft.com > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p-189#95189 > > > > > > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > > Web Forums! > > > > > Never miss an email again! Yahoo! Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail arrives. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/ ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 09:52:28 PM PST US From: "Gerry Filby" Subject: Re: RV-List: Why does my engine back-fire ? Hard to say where its happening - I'm usually in the cockpit :D You description of "close the throttle quickly" and "popping" sounds like what I'm experiencing. The same thing happened when I was flying the fac tory 7 with Mike Seager. Dan C's did it as he swooped down into the patte rn at HAF when he came to seem my project. I'm not worried about it, seem s to be common - just curious why it does it. g >-----Original Message----- >From: Bill Boyd [mailto:sportav8r@gmail.com] >Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 06:50 PM >To: rv-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: RV-List: Why does my engine back-fire ? > > >Backfire? Or afterfire? Two different problems, if I understand >correctly. Is the fire coming out the exhaust, or the air intake? > >When I close the throttle quickly, I get some popping, but always >assumed it was after-firing, from mixture going rich. Never seen any >evidence that the air filter was being hit with a flame front, but I'm >out of my expertise here. > >Anyone? > >-Stormy > >On 2/14/07, Tom Gummo wrote: >> >> >> I had a leak in the induction system of my FI system. Extra air means extra >> lean. >> Leak fixed, backfires stopped. >> >> Tom Gummo >> Apple Valley, CA >> Harmon Rocket-II >> >> do not archive >> >> http://mysite.verizon.net/t.gummo/index.html >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Gerry Filby >> To: rv-list@matronics.com >> Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 1:46 PM >> Subject: RV-List: Why does my engine back-fire ? >> >> (Not just my engine - just about every RV I've ever come across.) >> >> It does it when I pull the throttle to idle, even if I do it fairly sl owly >> ... and if I lean too far in flight ... >> >> I was thinking that idle throttle, or lean mixture means less fuel - s o >> what's to burn in the exhaust ? >> >> g >> >> >> >> >> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matroni cs.com/Navigator?RV-List >> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________ Time: 10:34:09 PM PST US From: "Rob Prior" Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M When did this become rv-legal-list@matronics.com? Can we get back to RV's? -Rob do not archive ________________________________ Message 46 ____________________________________ Time: 11:07:15 PM PST US From: Jerry Springer Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M Bob Collins wrote: > >In the process of putting together this week's Hotline, I always check to see if any NTSB investigations have been completed on RV-related incidents. > >Tonight I found this one (http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id 041110X01799&key=1). > >It's interesting -- to me -- for a number of reasons: > >(1) The NTSB report delves deeply into the construction of the nosegear on this particular RV-6A >(2) It reinforces why you should pay attention to edge distance >(3) It raises some question about the advice Van's gave to a builder who called seeking advice. > >Apparently the builder has questions about the edge distance on a nose gear component, called Van's, and then -- according to the NTSB -- followed the instructions he was given. The nose gear collapsed, the bird flipped, the pilot died and the NTSB said he was responsible because he flew with a known deficiency. > > > I think there is some misinformation being given here. The pilot was questioning the roll over structure rivet edge distance. The report say the nose gear gave way for undetermined resons. Lets see, reported roughness on previous landings, a botched landing on the landing prior to the accident, gee wonder if that could have anything to do with the nose gear failure? Nose gears do not just bend back for no reason. BTW Bob I may have missed you saying so but are you an attorney? Jerry do not archive ________________________________ Message 47 ____________________________________ Time: 11:09:06 PM PST US From: Jerry Springer Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M Rob Prior wrote: > >When did this become rv-legal-list@matronics.com? > >Can we get back to RV's? > >-Rob > >do not archive > > > I agree Rob, but at the same time you cannot let stand any misinformation being posted. do not archive ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rv-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rv-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.