Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:08 AM - Re: Engine Backfires (Bill Boyd)
2. 09:36 AM - Re: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M (Tracy Crook)
3. 06:57 PM - Re: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M (Vanremog@aol.com)
4. 08:14 PM - Re: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M (Jeffery J. Morgan)
5. 10:21 PM - Re: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M (Vanremog@aol.com)
6. 10:31 PM - Re: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M (Jeffery J. Morgan)
7. 11:38 PM - Re: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M (Vanremog@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Backfires |
Thanks, Ed. I feel exonerated and "affirmed" for my earlier post in
this thread.
-Stormy
On 2/15/07, Ed Anderson <eanderson@carolina.rr.com> wrote:
>
>
> "After fire" occurring in the exhaust system is the result of several
> factors.
>
> One, when you close the throttle, you have immediately reduced the amount
> of air available to cylinders to combust fuel. But the fuel quantity already
> in the manifold does not fall off as quickly. That means there is
> generally some unburned fuel ending up in the exhaust system. This fuel can
> be "cooked off" by the temperatures it encounters in the exhaust - this is
> promoted in short exhausts as there are "reversion" waves reflected back
> from the exhaust pipe opening which can push some oxygen back into the
> exhaust system. When these two factors combine - "after fire" is a common
> result. There is generally no damage and nothing to worry about - unless
> you have a passenger with a weak heart. However, it occurred frequently and
> prolonged I would check my exhaust valves for cracks.
>
>
> "Back firing" (occurring in the intake manifold) is generally when the
> combustion process occurs in the cylinder before the intake valve is
> completely closed. This may cause air/fuel mixture in the intake manifold
> to ignite - sometimes blowing off components depending on the degree of
> air/fuel mixture and other factors. This can happened due to misfire due to
> ignition time set incorrectly or to an overly lean mixture. Lean mixtures
> burn slowly and the process may not be completed if the mixture is very lean
> by the time the intake valve again opens. This can then ignite the mixture
> in the intake manifold. Back firing can result in damage.
>
> At least that's what I recall about the topic.
>
> Ed
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Gerry Filby
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 1:19 PM
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine Backfires
>
> Agreed that I am confused, if one can be confused having no knowledge
> whatsoever.
>
> If "afterfire" is the case - where is the excess fuel coming from, assuming:
>
> - fuel is burned to provide power when the throttle is open
> - there is little or no fuel when the throttle is closed (or the engine
> would be developing power)
>
> (BTW I have the muffled exhaust from Vettermans, although I understand its
> little more than 2 expansion chambers.)
>
> g
>
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Al Grajek [mailto:algrajek@msn.com]
> >Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 09:47 AM
> >To: rv-list@matronics.com
> >Subject: RV-List: Engine Backfires
> >
> >
> >I think you are confused between BACKfire and AFTERfire.
> >All(or most) of the engines have afterfire when you pull to idle. All
> >engines do it. The ony reason you hear it in the RVs is you dont have a
> >muffler. It is just excess fuel burning off at the idle setting.
> >Al Grajek
> >RV8
> >
> >
> >
> ===========
> ===========
> ===========
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M |
Wouldn't matter to me if he was dancing a jig and reciting the
Gettysburg address while burning to death. (am I going to hell for
that?) People around him did their personal best to save him but he
died anyway. If mistakes were made, well too bad, he obviously made the
first and primary mistake that caused his death and others should not
have to pay for that fact.
Tracy Crook
----- Original Message -----
From: Brian Meyette<mailto:brianpublic2@starband.net>
To: rv-list@matronics.com<mailto:rv-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 10:16 AM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M
<brianpublic2@starband.net<mailto:brianpublic2@starband.net>>
This description certainly sounds a lot different from previous
accounts
I've read. If true that he was alive and talking to people as he was
being
burned to death, with only a broken leg from the crash, that is quite
a
different matter and might explain what had seemed to most of us to be
a
egregious verdict.
Brian
-----Original Message-----
From:
owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com<mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.
com>
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bob Collins
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 5:55 PM
To: rv-list@matronics.com<mailto:rv-list@matronics.com>
Subject: RV-List: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M
<bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net<mailto:bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net>>
Interesting new stuff from Aircraft Maintenance Technology today.
Turns out
the fire crews did testify.
http://www.amtonline.com/article/article.jsp?siteSection=1&id=3391<ht
tp://www.amtonline.com/article/article.jsp?siteSection=1&id=3391>
(http://www.amtonline.com/article/article.jsp?siteSection=1&id=3391<h
ttp://www.amtonline.com/article/article.jsp?siteSection=1&id=3391>)
--------
Bob Collins
St. Paul, Minn.
RV Builder's Hotline (free!)
http://rvhotline.expercraft.com<http://rvhotline.expercraft.com/>
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=94828#94828<http://forums.m
atronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=94828#94828>
--
1:23 PM
--
7:54 AM
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List<http://www.matronics.com/Navig
ator?RV-List>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M |
In a message dated 2/16/2007 9:38:09 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
lors01@msn.com writes:
Wouldn't matter to me if he was dancing a jig and reciting the Gettysburg
address while burning to death. (am I going to hell for that?) People around
him did their personal best to save him but he died anyway. If mistakes were
made, well too bad, he obviously made the first and primary mistake that
caused his death and others should not have to pay for that fact.
===================================================
I have remained silent on this issue until now, but I have to agree with
Tracy's assertion of "any good Samaritan (professional or amateur) doing their
level best to help out someone in trouble is absolved of liability". I want
people to help others in need, even if they fail to succeed. Stuff happens
and you can't always put Humpty Dumpty back together again. This is the sad
fact, get over it, but learn from it.
Others' assertions that we need to know the minutiae of the case in order to
fully understand the nuanced but higher wisdom of a jury acting in a
frivolous suit against those who tried to help is nonsense. IMO, the issue should
have never come before the court.
GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A, C/S, Flying 833hrs, Silicon Valley, CA)
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M |
Professionally trained folks are not just people passing by and we
expect a level of training, performance, and knowledge from them when
responding. I expect that police officer knows how to aim and fire his
gun. I expect the paramedic to know the drugs he is using and what their
affect will be. I expect that pilot of my airline plane to know how to
navigate and use the systems available to him. I hold all of them to a
standard that is very different then just someone trying help. To
suggest that because the fire department showed up, that is all that
they need to do is ridiculous! I cannot believe that I even read that
in this group.
If the fire department didn't use their training and execute properly
for the accident that they responded to, they should be called on it.
How can you say that it is okay for them to not be held responsible for
not using their training and then turn and criticize the pilot for the
exact same thing? Pick a side.
Everyone is upset at what happened, but the family has a right to ask
the questions as to what happened. Hundreds of years ago it was just
the workers fault that they stuck their hand into the machines.
Shouldn't have had it there in the first place, right? OSHA has made
the work place safer and helped many people. That occurred by people
questioning the experts. There are examples all over the world around
us.
Now, I am not suggesting that I agree or disagree with the results, but
will say that the idea that experts are excused is a bunch of bologna.
They should do it better, thus the expert title.
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Vanremog@aol.com
Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 8:55 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M
In a message dated 2/16/2007 9:38:09 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
lors01@msn.com writes:
Wouldn't matter to me if he was dancing a jig and reciting the
Gettysburg address while burning to death. (am I going to hell for
that?) People around him did their personal best to save him but he
died anyway. If mistakes were made, well too bad, he obviously made the
first and primary mistake that caused his death and others should not
have to pay for that fact.
=
I have remained silent on this issue until now, but I have to agree with
Tracy's assertion of "any good Samaritan (professional or amateur) doing
their level best to help out someone in trouble is absolved of
liability". I want people to help others in need, even if they fail to
succeed. Stuff happens and you can't always put Humpty Dumpty back
together again. This is the sad fact, get over it, but learn from it.
Others' assertions that we need to know the minutiae of the case in
order to fully understand the nuanced but higher wisdom of a jury acting
in a frivolous suit against those who tried to help is nonsense. IMO,
the issue should have never come before the court.
GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A, C/S, Flying 833hrs, Silicon Valley, CA)
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M |
In a message dated 2/16/2007 8:16:15 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
jmorgan@compnetconcepts.com writes:
Professionally trained folks are not just people passing by and we expect a
level of training, performance, and knowledge from them when responding. I
expect that police officer knows how to aim and fire his gun. I expect the
paramedic to know the drugs he is using and what their affect will be. I ex
pect
that pilot of my airline plane to know how to navigate and use the systems
available to him. I hold all of them to a standard that is very different t
hen
just someone trying help. To suggest that because the fire department sho
wed
up, that is all that they need to do is ridiculous! I cannot believe that
I even read that in this group.
If the fire department didn=99t use their training and execute proper
ly for
the accident that they responded to, they should be called on it. How can
you
say that it is okay for them to not be held responsible for not using thei
r
training and then turn and criticize the pilot for the exact same thing?
Pick a side.
======
And even professional money managers often lose money. Past performance is
not a guarantee of future results, and with the ton of variables out there,
it's not always their fault.
If it's intentional bad management (such as in the case of Enron) then you
may have a point. If the fire squad drove up to the burning plane and brok
e
out their sticks and marshmallows, that would be the only careless disregar
d
finding I could agree with.
GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A, C/S, Flying 833hrs, Silicon Valley, CA)
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M |
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Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M |
In a message dated 2/16/2007 10:32:53 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
jmorgan@compnetconcepts.com writes:
There is a difference between finance and physical science. The rules of
fire are absolute. Ask any of them.
============================
Unfortunately, I'm sure they would be equally clear that positive short term
results are still not absolutely assured in either case, because time is
such a major aspect in both. Maybe he just didn't pray hard enough in those
final moments. Do not archive.
GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A, C/S, Flying 833hrs, Silicon Valley, CA)
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