Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:49 AM - Re: I flew today! (Tom & Cathy Ervin)
2. 04:08 AM - Re: What pop rivet does Van's static port kit use (Hopperdhh@aol.com)
3. 04:28 AM - Re: I flew today! (Dana Overall)
4. 06:20 AM - Re: I flew today! (Tim Bryan)
5. 07:36 AM - Baffles baffling you ? (Gerry Filby)
6. 08:18 AM - Re: I flew today! (Darrell Reiley)
7. 08:23 AM - Archive search question (Tim Bryan)
8. 08:41 AM - Re: Archive search question (Sam Buchanan)
9. 08:52 AM - Re: Archive search question (Joseph Larson)
10. 08:55 AM - Re: Archive search question (Tim Bryan)
11. 08:55 AM - Re: Archive search question (Lloyd, Daniel R.)
12. 08:56 AM - Re: SAN airports (Ed Holyoke)
13. 09:06 AM - Re: Archive search question (Terry Watson)
14. 09:07 AM - Re: Archive search question (Tim Bryan)
15. 09:10 AM - Re: Archive search question (Ed Holyoke)
16. 09:24 AM - panel finishing (Frazier, Vincent A)
17. 09:32 AM - Re: Archive search question (Konrad L. Werner)
18. 09:41 AM - Re: Baffles baffling you ? (Konrad L. Werner)
19. 10:40 AM - Re: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M (Tracy Crook)
20. 11:26 AM - Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M (Bob Collins)
21. 11:29 AM - Re: Archive search question (Tim Bryan)
22. 12:15 PM - Re: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M (Bob)
23. 12:42 PM - Re: I flew today! (Brian Meyette)
24. 12:59 PM - Sirius and XM (David Burton)
25. 01:12 PM - Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M (Bob Collins)
26. 01:20 PM - Re: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M (Tracy Crook)
27. 01:21 PM - Re: Baffles baffling you ? (Gerry Filby)
28. 01:21 PM - Re: Sirius and XM (Cory Emberson)
29. 01:39 PM - Re: Sirius and XM (Joseph Larson)
30. 02:00 PM - Re: Sirius and XM (luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky))
31. 02:08 PM - Re: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M (Joseph Larson)
32. 02:15 PM - Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M (Bob Collins)
33. 02:26 PM - Re: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M (Tim Bryan)
34. 02:46 PM - Re: Sirius and XM (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
35. 02:46 PM - Re: Sirius and XM (Brian Meyette)
36. 02:56 PM - Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M (Bob Collins)
37. 03:07 PM - Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M (Bob Collins)
38. 03:11 PM - 27 Years of the RV-ator on searchable CD (Andy Gold)
39. 03:44 PM - Re: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M (bill shook)
40. 03:53 PM - Re: Pilot's Family Awarded $10.5M (John Fasching)
41. 03:59 PM - Re: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M (Tim Bryan)
42. 04:05 PM - panel finishing (Erich_Weaver@URSCorp.com)
43. 04:55 PM - Re: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M (Tracy Crook)
44. 05:37 PM - RV-7A N174JL has a new owner... (Jack Lockamy)
45. 06:14 PM - Re: RV-7A N174JL has a new owner... (Darrell Reiley)
46. 06:46 PM - Re: It's flyable! (Emrath)
47. 08:02 PM - Re: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M (Vanremog@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: I flew today! |
Congratulations BOBBY!!!!!!!! Hope to see you at the locale UFO's shortly!
Tom in Ohio RV6-A (10G)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bobby Hester" <bobbyhester@charter.net>
Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 10:58 PM
Subject: RV-List: I flew today!
> Well I finally did it! About 3pm today I got to fly my plane. It was
> great, it flew great, it performed great and everything seemed to work
> fine the first flight. Second flight the oil temp probe stopped working
> and I played with the nav side of the SL30 without much luck, but I need
> to read the book to find out exactly how it works. I'm off tomorrow and
> will fly some more.
>
> --
> Surfing the web with my laptop from Hopkinsville, KY
> Visit my RV7A website:
> http://webpages.charter.net/bobbyhester/FinishingUpPg3.htm
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: What pop rivet does Van's static port kit use |
In a message dated 2/18/2007 1:21:48 PM Eastern Standard Time,
Tim_Lewis@msm.umr.edu writes:
Listers,
Can somebody tell me what pop rivet Vans includes in their static port
kit? It looks like an SB-42-BSLF, but I'm not sure.
Thanks,
Tim Lewis
Message 3
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Good deal Bobby, ya look like a proud papa:-)
Dana Overall
Richmond, KY i39
RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic"
O 360 A1A, C/S C2YK-1BF/F7666A4
http://rvflying.tripod.com/blackwing1.jpg
http://rvflying.tripod.com
do not archive
>From: Bobby Hester <bobbyhester@charter.net>
>To: RV-List <rv-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RV-List: I flew today!
>Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2007 21:58:42 -0600
>
>Well I finally did it! About 3pm today I got to fly my plane. It was great,
>it flew great, it performed great and everything seemed to work fine the
>first flight. Second flight the oil temp probe stopped working and I played
>with the nav side of the SL30 without much luck, but I need to read the
>book to find out exactly how it works. I'm off tomorrow and will fly some
>more.
>
>--
>Surfing the web with my laptop from Hopkinsville, KY
>Visit my RV7A website:
>http://webpages.charter.net/bobbyhester/FinishingUpPg3.htm
>
><< P1010163sm.JPG >>
><< P1010177sm.JPG >>
_________________________________________________________________
The average US Credit Score is 675. The cost to see yours: $0 by Experian.
http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=660600&bcd=EMAILFOOTERAVERAGE
Message 4
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Congrats Bobby
Isn't that just the coolest thing!
Tim
80 hours and still grinnin
Do Not Archive
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-
> server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Hester
> Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 9:59 PM
> To: RV-List
> Subject: RV-List: I flew today!
>
> Well I finally did it! About 3pm today I got to fly my plane. It was
> great, it flew great, it performed great and everything seemed to work
> fine the first flight. Second flight the oil temp probe stopped working
> and I played with the nav side of the SL30 without much luck, but I need
> to read the book to find out exactly how it works. I'm off tomorrow and
> will fly some more.
>
> --
> Surfing the web with my laptop from Hopkinsville, KY
> Visit my RV7A website:
> http://webpages.charter.net/bobbyhester/FinishingUpPg3.htm
Message 5
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| Subject: | Baffles baffling you ? |
... checkout Kitplanes article on engine baffling - very interesting- and surprising
- read.
g
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: I flew today! |
Great Job Bobby! Congratulations... :)
Darrell
do not archive
We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love
(and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.
http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/265
Message 7
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| Subject: | Archive search question |
Hi Listers,
I am trying to find the info I remember from around 2004 or so when Bohannon
(I think it was him) who had landed his RV in the way up north and was not
able to get fuel or was not allowed to take off. Sorry my memory from that
period is so bad, but trying to find the details of that incident. Any
search ideas would be appreciated
Do Not Archive
Tim
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Archive search question |
Tim Bryan wrote:
>
>
> Hi Listers,
>
> I am trying to find the info I remember from around 2004 or so when Bohannon
> (I think it was him) who had landed his RV in the way up north and was not
> able to get fuel or was not allowed to take off. Sorry my memory from that
> period is so bad, but trying to find the details of that incident. Any
> search ideas would be appreciated
>
> Do Not Archive
> Tim
Sounds a lot like Jon Johansson's experience in the Antarctic (if my
memory serves me...).
Sam Buchanan
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Archive search question |
It was actually at the Antarctic. It was to be a south pole crossing
but he encountered stronger than expected winds and was forced to
land at the US outpost there. The folks there were pretty unhappy to
see him and wouldn't sell him any gas. Luckily, some other pilot had
cached fuel here for his own attempt, and they came to an arrangement.
For a while, it looked like a lack of a few hundred dollars of gas to
go somewhere less remote was going to cost him thousands of dollars
to get himself and his airplane home.
-J
On Feb 19, 2007, at 10:22 AM, Tim Bryan wrote:
>
>
> Hi Listers,
>
> I am trying to find the info I remember from around 2004 or so when
> Bohannon
> (I think it was him) who had landed his RV in the way up north and
> was not
> able to get fuel or was not allowed to take off. Sorry my memory
> from that
> period is so bad, but trying to find the details of that incident.
> Any
> search ideas would be appreciated
>
> Do Not Archive
> Tim
Message 10
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| Subject: | Archive search question |
Sam, that could be correct. My memory wasn't good during that time.
Antarctic does sound right.
Tim
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-
> server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam Buchanan
> Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 10:40 AM
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Archive search question
>
>
> Tim Bryan wrote:
> >
> >
> > Hi Listers,
> >
> > I am trying to find the info I remember from around 2004 or so when
> Bohannon
> > (I think it was him) who had landed his RV in the way up north and was
> not
> > able to get fuel or was not allowed to take off. Sorry my memory from
> that
> > period is so bad, but trying to find the details of that incident. Any
> > search ideas would be appreciated
> >
> > Do Not Archive
> > Tim
>
>
> Sounds a lot like Jon Johansson's experience in the Antarctic (if my
> memory serves me...).
>
> Sam Buchanan
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Archive search question |
Are you referring to Jon Johanson, and his unplanned stop in Antarctica?
If I remember correctly he had unexpected head winds on the way to
Argentina via the south pole and he had to turn back to Mcmurdo, and
they were going to fly him out, and ship his RV. He stayed with the
plane and another civilian pilot, who had a planned fuel stop there gave
him the required fuel.
Do a search on him and it should come up
Dan
N289DT
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Bryan
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 11:22 AM
Subject: RV-List: Archive search question
Hi Listers,
I am trying to find the info I remember from around 2004 or so when
Bohannon
(I think it was him) who had landed his RV in the way up north and was
not
able to get fuel or was not allowed to take off. Sorry my memory from
that
period is so bad, but trying to find the details of that incident. Any
search ideas would be appreciated
Do Not Archive
Tim
Message 12
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Airnav has Brown Field showing $3.30 - guaranteed.
Ed Holyoke
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Wheeler North
Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 9:27 PM
Subject: RV-List: SAN airports
Not sure this was answered...
Cheap fuel in San Diego???
ha ha ha ha ha ha
Best in So Cal is usually L35, Big Bear, but is high altitude airport
with
some winds so bone up on mountain flying. Restaurant is OK but Thelmas
up
the road two blocks is better. unicom freq changed recently.
Otherwise Corona or Flabob, both with OK restaurants
CRQ is in Carlsbad
MYF is closest to SAN, (Other than SAN)
SEE is most RV friendly and RV populated
SDM is EAA Ctp 14 home base
OKB is just north of Carlsbad fuel is OK usually
W
do not archive
Message 13
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| Subject: | Archive search question |
Tim,
You are probably thinking about Jon Johanson's flight over the South Pole
and subsequent landing at McMurdo Sound because headwinds prevented him from
making it to South America as planned. The U.S. base at McMurdo had a policy
to refuse to sell gas to private flights to discourage visitors. Jon was
able to buy gas from another pilot who had planned an attempted flight over
the pole and had pre-positioned gas at McMurdo.
You are probably about right about the date. I had ordered a carbon fiber
plenum from Jon and was wondering where it was. My email was answered by
someone telling me he was in the air over Antartica. A friend's daughter was
working at McMurdo at the time and said that they were discouraged from even
talking to Jon.
Terry
RV-8A
Seattle
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Bryan
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 8:22 AM
Subject: RV-List: Archive search question
Hi Listers,
I am trying to find the info I remember from around 2004 or so when Bohannon
(I think it was him) who had landed his RV in the way up north and was not
able to get fuel or was not allowed to take off. Sorry my memory from that
period is so bad, but trying to find the details of that incident. Any
search ideas would be appreciated
Do Not Archive
Tim
Message 14
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| Subject: | Archive search question |
Thanks Sam and Joseph. I was able to find it when I did my search on the
right person.
Tim
Do Not Archive
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-
> server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Joseph Larson
> Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 10:49 AM
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Archive search question
>
>
> It was actually at the Antarctic. It was to be a south pole crossing
> but he encountered stronger than expected winds and was forced to
> land at the US outpost there. The folks there were pretty unhappy to
> see him and wouldn't sell him any gas. Luckily, some other pilot had
> cached fuel here for his own attempt, and they came to an arrangement.
>
> For a while, it looked like a lack of a few hundred dollars of gas to
> go somewhere less remote was going to cost him thousands of dollars
> to get himself and his airplane home.
>
> -J
>
> On Feb 19, 2007, at 10:22 AM, Tim Bryan wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Hi Listers,
> >
> > I am trying to find the info I remember from around 2004 or so when
> > Bohannon
> > (I think it was him) who had landed his RV in the way up north and
> > was not
> > able to get fuel or was not allowed to take off. Sorry my memory
> > from that
> > period is so bad, but trying to find the details of that incident.
> > Any
> > search ideas would be appreciated
> >
> > Do Not Archive
> > Tim
>
>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Archive search question |
Are you thinking of Jon Johanson and way down south - Antarctica?
Pax,
Ed Holyoke
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Bryan
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 8:22 AM
Subject: RV-List: Archive search question
Hi Listers,
I am trying to find the info I remember from around 2004 or so when
Bohannon
(I think it was him) who had landed his RV in the way up north and was
not
able to get fuel or was not allowed to take off. Sorry my memory from
that
period is so bad, but trying to find the details of that incident. Any
search ideas would be appreciated
Do Not Archive
Tim
Message 16
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|
Another option to finish your panel(and any other flat surface) is to
use sign vinyl. There are some wicked patterns available. One that is
particularly popular right now is carbon fiber. Many nice woodgrains
are available too. Browse through some of the vinyl graphics websites
and take a look.
If you find one that you like, you can order it yourself or I'd be glad
to order it and sell you only as much as you need so you don't waste 9
yards of vinyl. I can always use it elsewhere.
You'd want to apply the vinyl after you're done cutting/drilling the
panel. Then just install your stuff over it.
The vinyls are very durable and will last for 9+ years even outdoors.
It should last the life of your plane if you keep it hangared most of
the time. Even if the vinyl gets damaged, nasty, or the plaid pattern
you chose goes out of style, it is relatively easy to remove by peeling
off with a little heat. Then apply some new and your done. No
stripping, no paint fuems, easy.
Check my website for other graphics. And I sell the world's best
performing RV full swivel tailwheels too.
Vince Frazier
Screaming Eagle Graphics and Accessories, LLC
3965 Caborn Road
Mount Vernon, IN 47620
812-464-1839
http://vincesrocket.com/products.htm
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Archive search question |
Tim,
You are not planning to fly over the pole, or are you??? What happened
to your memory in that time? Are you sure it got better by now?
(sorry, could not resist that one)
do not archive
Sam, that could be correct. My memory wasn't good during that time.
Antarctic does sound right.
Tim
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Baffles baffling you ? |
Gerry,
Which edition of KP? do not archive
Subject: RV-List: Baffles baffling you ?
... checkout Kitplanes article on engine baffling - very interesting-
and surprising - read.
g
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M |
// Let's not attribute any phony collective wisdom to this jury.
Politicians and celebrities can't afford to say what they often know to
be the truth. Fortunately, I do have that luxury. John Q. Public is
often a cowardly empty headed slavering beast who will sacrifice reason
and truth for any number of petty reasons.
Maybe. But part of the problem is the law itself and while we might be
able to ignore elements of it we find rather distasteful, a jury doesn't
have that luxury. That's why I think the instructions to the jury are so
very important.
// True, I got carried away from my original point which you bring me
back to, which is: Juries * DO * have that luxury, sometimes for the
worse (OJ Simpson) but they are there for expressly that purpose, to
over-ride laws that are nonsense. Lawyers will scoff at this assertion
but if it were not so, then the jury system makes no sense at all. A
panel of lawyers could do the job of 'interpreting the law' far better
than a jury. I won't bore anyone with the historical evidence for this
opinion.
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Collins<mailto:bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net>
To: rv-list@matronics.com<mailto:rv-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 3:35 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M
I think that's a very good point. I think the message of the jury
is if you contract for services, your obligation and liability doesn't
end when you sign the contract. At that point, as near as I can tell,
the EAA/NWEAA couldn't just say "it's *their* problem now. Apparently
the EAA/NWEAA had an obligation to make sure that the standard of
services was appropriate. I believe there was a section in the testimony
where the fly-in director didn't know what level of services were
provided, and I think the court was saying that she should have. Again,
I'm not saying I agree with this; I'm not saying I don't agree with it.
For one thing, I don't live in Washington State and it's up to the
people who do to change the law if this is, indeed, the case and they
find it inappropriate.
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List<http://www.matronics.com/Navig
ator?RV-List>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M |
lors01(at)msn.com wrote:
> Juries * DO * have that luxury, sometimes for the worse (OJ Simpson) but
they are there for expressly that purpose, to over-ride laws that are nonsense.
Lawyers will scoff at this assertion but if it were not so, then the
jury system makes no sense at all. A panel of lawyers could do the job of
'interpreting the law' far better than a jury. I won't bore anyone with
the historical evidence for this opinion.
>
Well, as I indicated, I'm not a resident of Washington state so maybe there juries
make the laws and decide which ones make sense and which don't.
To take it a step further, why even have trials at all? Why not just post about
4 sentences on an Internet bulletin board about what the case is about and have
an online survey that determines whether someone is guilty or not?
It sure would also save a lot of time in trying to empanel an impartial jury willing
to listen to both side of an argument.
Do not archive
--------
Bob Collins
St. Paul, Minn.
RV Builder's Hotline (free!)
http://rvhotline.expercraft.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p'068#96068
Message 21
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| Subject: | Archive search question |
Well, I am not planning to fly there but we were talking about it the other
day with a friend. I remembered there was a thread but couldn't remember
the details. Yes, I am better now, the brain tumor has been removed.
(sorry, could not resist that one)
That's OK, I understand.
Tim
_____
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Konrad L. Werner
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 11:32 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Archive search question
Tim,
You are not planning to fly over the pole, or are you??? What happened to
your memory in that time? Are you sure it got better by now? (sorry, could
not resist that one)
do not archive
Sam, that could be correct. My memory wasn't good during that time.
Antarctic does sound right.
Tim
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M |
At 08:53 PM 2/17/07, you wrote:
>In a message dated 2/17/2007 12:44:05 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
>bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net writes:
>Well, that's a judgment an intelligent person could only make AFTER he/she
>gets the information. Not before.
>
>It's illogical to say that information you don't even have is worthless
>
>==================================
>
>Not worthless, just pointless in this case.
>
>-GV
If I had known in 1994 what I know now five years after I have completed my
RV, I would not have built it. On the other hand, 10 years from know, I
will know, what I don't know now, and my response might be, you bet I made
the right decision to build the RV.
Intellectuals (which I include myself as one) have a tendency to study a
situation, or problem to death and never make a decision. I have learned
at some point I must stop searching for more information and make a
decision. It took me 34 years to decide what airplane to build and when to
start it. It took a good friend to get me to start building when he said,
"Just Do It, if you don't do it soon you will be too old to fly it."
One could make the point that the Jury did not have sufficient knowledge or
information to make their decision. Did they have 25 years of fire
fighting experience? Then how could they sit in judgement of
firefighters? Did they have 30 years experience as a pilot, or builder,
then how can they judge a pilot or builder. Did they ever run an Air show?
One smart person once told me, "you don't need to know the physics of how a
microwave oven works, to use it. But, you do need to know how to stop and
start it."
I doubt any one person alive knows all the facts. But that did not stop
the jury from making a decision. So why should it stop me from having an
opinion?
Anyway, that is how I see the world. I understand that others do see it
differently!
Do Not Archive
Bob
Message 23
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Congratulations, Bobby - I know you've been working on this a long time.
Best wishes with it.
brian
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bobby Hester
Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 10:59 PM
Subject: RV-List: I flew today!
Well I finally did it! About 3pm today I got to fly my plane. It was
great, it flew great, it performed great and everything seemed to work
fine the first flight. Second flight the oil temp probe stopped working
and I played with the nav side of the SL30 without much luck, but I need
to read the book to find out exactly how it works. I'm off tomorrow and
will fly some more.
--
Surfing the web with my laptop from Hopkinsville, KY
Visit my RV7A website:
http://webpages.charter.net/bobbyhester/FinishingUpPg3.htm
--
5:06 PM
--
4:35 PM
Message 24
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After a lot of speculation it looks like a deal has been made for Sirius and
XM to merge. Somehow I think the Federal regulators are going to have
problems with this since it will remove any competition between satellite
radio providers. I wonder what the effect on our equipment and service will
be if this goes through.
Dave
Flying 172/182
Building RV6
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M |
//I doubt any one person alive knows all the facts. But that did not stop the
jury from making a decision. So why should it stop me from having an opinion?
I'm not sure I understand this. What evidence do we have that the jury made a decision
without having the facts? It appears they listened to the evidence and
even -- according to John's article -- sent numerous questions back to the judge
seeking clarification. That indicated to me they were engaged with the facts...
Certainly more so than many of the folks on the RV list who've called them
stupid have been.
I'm not sure, at this point, what folks expected the jury to do? If the case came
down to a question of whether Washington state law allows the EAA to not check
to be sure the firefighting services they contracted for were, in fact, provided
(and the testimony says it did not), and if Washington state law says
that signing a contract doesn't transfer liability away from the EAA, then what
exactly is a jury supposed to do if the person running the fly-in testifies
that she didn't know what services were being provided? If we expect the jury
to ignore the law that the legislators -- acting as representatives of the voters
-- enacted, then aren't we saying to them: ignore the FACT of law?
I think one of the distressing elements of society today, frankly, is that we assume
people who don't share the same opinion we share, are stupid. To me --
as someone who has covered politics for years -- this is what has led to our polarized
society. We are so entrenched with our opinions, that we demonize those
who have different opinions. Pretty soon the merits of a discussion fall victim
to some sort of "good vs. evil" ... "smart vs. stupid."
In many ways, life has come to mirror the art of Internet bulletin boards I'm
pretty sure this all comes back to the PC vs. Apple debate. (g)
It's time to move on from this now, and concentrate on convincing me whether I
not I should install the canopy release mechanism.(g)
Do not archive
--------
Bob Collins
St. Paul, Minn.
RV Builder's Hotline (free!)
http://rvhotline.expercraft.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p'087#96087
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M |
T. Crook wrote:
> Juries * DO * have that luxury, sometimes for the worse (OJ Simpson)
but they are there for expressly that purpose, to over-ride laws that
are nonsense. Lawyers will scoff at this assertion but if it were
not so, then the jury system makes no sense at all. A panel of lawyers
could do the job of 'interpreting the law' far better than a jury. I
won't bore anyone with the historical evidence for this opinion.
>
Well, as I indicated, I'm not a resident of Washington state so maybe
there juries make the laws and decide which ones make sense and which
don't.
To take it a step further, why even have trials at all? Why not just
post about 4 sentences on an Internet bulletin board about what the case
is about and have an online survey that determines whether someone is
guilty or not?
It sure would also save a lot of time in trying to empanel an impartial
jury willing to listen to both side of an argument.
Do not archive
--------
Bob Collins
It is no surprise that you didn't take this seriously (almost no one
does) and that is precisely why we had the profoundly wrong jury
decision that started this thread. But I'll pretend your comments were
serious and respond that the U.S. Constitution establishes the right to
a trial by a jury of one's peers. This has nothing to do with
Washington state laws. To answer meaningfully, you would have to give
a logical reason why the framers of the Constitution wanted a jury
system if it was not as a check on a legal system gone bad.
Tracy Crook (back from another disgusting day in our court system)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=96068#96068<http://forums.m
atronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=96068#96068>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List<http://www.matronics.com/Navig
ator?RV-List>
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Baffles baffling you ? |
=EF=BB I got the email for the electronic edition today ... its the Ap
ril 2007 print edition.
g
-----Original Message-----
From: Konrad L. Werner [mailto:klwerner@comcast.net]
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 09:41 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Baffles baffling you ?
Gerry,
Which edition of KP? do not archive
Subject: RV-List: Baffles baffling you ?
... checkout Kitplanes article on engine baffling - very interesting- and
surprising - read.
g
========================_
=====
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Sirius and XM |
That's a good question. I'll be looking on AvFlash for that one.
(I hope they don't name the merged service "S&M". <g>)
do not archive
David Burton wrote:
> After a lot of speculation it looks like a deal has been made for
> Sirius and XM to merge. Somehow I think the Federal regulators are
> going to have problems with this since it will remove any competition
> between satellite radio providers. I wonder what the effect on our
> equipment and service will be if this goes through...
>
>
>
> Dave
>
> Flying 172/182
>
> Building RV6
>
>
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Sirius and XM |
Hmm. Can this even be regulated by the feds? The sats are in outer
space, which isn't managed by the US govt.
-J
do not archive
On Feb 19, 2007, at 2:51 PM, David Burton wrote:
> After a lot of speculation it looks like a deal has been made for
> Sirius and XM to merge. Somehow I think the Federal regulators are
> going to have problems with this since it will remove any
> competition between satellite radio providers. I wonder what the
> effect on our equipment and service will be if this goes through=85
>
>
> Dave
>
> Flying 172/182
>
> Building RV6
>
> ========================
> ========================
>
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Sirius and XM |
"outer space" is controlled, frequencies are controlled, american companies are
controlled, etc,
-------------- Original message --------------
From: Joseph Larson <jpl@showpage.org>
Hmm. Can this even be regulated by the feds? The sats are in outer space, which
isn't managed by the US govt.
-J
do not archive
On Feb 19, 2007, at 2:51 PM, David Burton wrote:
After a lot of speculation it looks like a deal has been made for Sirius and XM
to merge. Somehow I think the Federal regulators are going to have problems with
this since it will remove any competition between satellite radio providers.
I wonder what the effect on our equipment and service will be if this goes
through
Dave
Flying 172/182
Building RV6
- The RV-List Email Forum - class="Apple-converted-space"> --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List - NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - class="Apple-converted-space"> --> http://forums.matronics.com
<html><body>
<DIV>"outer space" is controlled, frequencies are controlled, american companies
are controlled, etc,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px
solid">-------------- Original message -------------- <BR>From: Joseph Larson
<jpl@showpage.org> <BR>Hmm. Can this even be regulated by the feds? The
sats are in outer space, which isn't managed by the US govt.
<DIV><BR class=khtml-block-placeholder></DIV>
<DIV>-J</DIV>
<DIV><BR class=khtml-block-placeholder></DIV>
<DIV>do not archive</DIV>
<DIV><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV>On Feb 19, 2007, at 2:51 PM, David Burton wrote:</DIV><BR class=Apple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="WORD-SPACING: 0px;
FONT: 12px Helvetica; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); TEXT-INDENT: 0px;
WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; border-spacing:
0px 0px; khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; apple-text-size-adjust:
auto; orphans: 2; widows: 2">
<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 16px;
FONT-FAMILY: Courier New"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE:
16px; FONT-FAMILY: Courier New">After a lot of speculation it looks like a deal
has been made for Sirius and XM to merge. Somehow I think the Federal regulators
are going to have problems with this since it will remove any competition
between satellite radio providers. I wonder what the effect on our equipment
and service will be if this goes through</SPAN><?XML:NAMESPACE PREFIX = O /><O:P
style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: Courier New"></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE:
16px; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Courier New"><O:P style="FONT-SIZE:
16px; FONT-FAMILY: Courier New"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE:
16px; FONT-FAMILY: Courier New"></SPAN></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE:
16px; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Courier New"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: Courier New">Dave</SPAN><O:P style="FONT-SIZE:
16px; FONT-FAMILY: Courier New"></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE:
16px; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Courier New"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: Courier New">Flying 172/182</SPAN><O:P
style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: Courier New"></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Courier New"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: Courier New">Building RV6</SPAN><O:P style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: Courier New"></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV><PRE style="WHITE-SPACE: pre"><B style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; WHITE-SPACE: pre"><FONT face="courier new,courier" color=#000000 size=2><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10px; FONT-FAMILY: courier new; WHITE-SPACE: pre; class: " Apple-converted-space?> </SPAN> <SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN> <SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN> <SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>- The RV-List Email Forum - class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN>--> </SPAN><A href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style
"FONT-
WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10px; COLOR: rgb(0,0,255); FONT-FAMILY: courier new; WHITE-SPACE: pre; khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: underline">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List</SPAN></A><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10px; FONT-FAMILY: courier new; WHITE-SPACE: pre; class: " Apple-converted-space?> </SPAN> <SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN> <SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN> <SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN> <SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN> <SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>- NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN> <SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>--> </SPAN><A href="http://forums.matronics.com/"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10px; COLOR: rgb(0,0,255); FONT-FAMILY: courier new; WHITE-SPACE:
pre; k
html-text-decorations-in-effect: underline">http://forums.matronics.com</SPAN></A><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10px; FONT-FAMILY: courier new; WHITE-SPACE: pre; SPAN: " face="courier new,courier" color="#000000" 2?></FONT></PRE><BR class=Apple-interchange-newline></SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></DIV><PRE><B><FONT face="courier new,courier" size=2 color000000?>
</B></FONT></PRE></BLOCKQUOTE></B>
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre></body></html>
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M |
Bob,
I think the basic problem is that none of us can be convinced that
the EAA should have been expected to contract with services more
qualified than the local fire department. I also don't feel that any
of us can be convinced that the EAA should be expected to perform
some sort of quality test on the local services. You might verify
they have trucks and personnel and those personnel know how to handle
gas fires and such, but you don't actually run your own tests to make
sure the people are in top condition and responsiveness.
I don't think any of us can understand why the EAA is responsible but
the organization that was on scene providing the so-called faulty
services was exempt. The ONLY reason I can imagine this being the
case is if the plaintiff's lawyers didn't want the local jury to have
to give an award that was coming out of their taxes. Fine, move the
darned trial somewhere, but if there were faulty services, the FIRST
people to blame are the ones who performed the faulty services.
My expectation when I fly somewhere is that if I have a crash, that
the nearest available units will respond in a timely and professional
manner, but I have no expectations that the nearest people will be
available on field. I certainly don't expect rescue services to
actually be in their hot, hot gear around the clock. And if I die
because they were too slow, even unprofessionally slow, that's my
tough luck. Unless I specifically contracted with the people for
services they didn't provide, too bad, so sad. This concept of
implied responsibility is very distressing.
This case isn't a case of no rescue services available. It's not
even a case of whether those rescue services were some shoddy, fly by
night operation. It was the local fire department who in virtually
all cases should be considered "good enough" without further checks.
If those services were insufficient, it's the local fire department's
fault, not the EAA's.
I think there's plenty of blame to pass around on this issue, but
none of it on the EAA.
-J
do not archive
On Feb 19, 2007, at 3:11 PM, Bob Collins wrote:
> <bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net>
>
> //I doubt any one person alive knows all the facts. But that did
> not stop the jury from making a decision. So why should it stop me
> from having an opinion?
>
> I'm not sure I understand this. What evidence do we have that the
> jury made a decision without having the facts? It appears they
> listened to the evidence and even -- according to John's article --
> sent numerous questions back to the judge seeking clarification.
> That indicated to me they were engaged with the facts... Certainly
> more so than many of the folks on the RV list who've called them
> stupid have been.
>
> I'm not sure, at this point, what folks expected the jury to do?
> If the case came down to a question of whether Washington state law
> allows the EAA to not check to be sure the firefighting services
> they contracted for were, in fact, provided (and the testimony says
> it did not), and if Washington state law says that signing a
> contract doesn't transfer liability away from the EAA, then what
> exactly is a jury supposed to do if the person running the fly-in
> testifies that she didn't know what services were being provided?
> If we expect the jury to ignore the law that the legislators --
> acting as representatives of the voters -- enacted, then aren't we
> saying to them: ignore the FACT of law?
>
> I think one of the distressing elements of society today, frankly,
> is that we assume people who don't share the same opinion we share,
> are stupid. To me -- as someone who has covered politics for years
> -- this is what has led to our polarized society. We are so
> entrenched with our opinions, that we demonize those who have
> different opinions. Pretty soon the merits of a discussion fall
> victim to some sort of "good vs. evil" ... "smart vs. stupid."
>
> In many ways, life has come to mirror the art of Internet bulletin
> boards I'm pretty sure this all comes back to the PC vs. Apple
> debate. (g)
>
> It's time to move on from this now, and concentrate on convincing
> me whether I not I should install the canopy release mechanism.(g)
>
> Do not archive
>
> --------
> Bob Collins
> St. Paul, Minn.
> RV Builder's Hotline (free!)
> http://rvhotline.expercraft.com
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p'087#96087
>
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M |
[quote="lors01(at)msn.com"]To answer meaningfully, you would have to give a logical
reason why the framers of the Constitution wanted a jury system if it was
not as a check on a legal system gone bad.
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p'068#96068 (http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p'068#96068)
The founding fathers did nothing to the state of Washington as to how its laws
would be formulated, followed, and changed. That is the state's obligation.
The jury system was part of an entire system of governance enacted by tthe Founding
Fathers. To say that the jury system exists because the Founding Fathers
knew the rest of the system they devised had already "gone bad" is a questionable
conclusion.
What the Founding Father didn't particularly care for,one could argue, is the Chamber
of Star, in which arbitrary power was wielded. The same kind of power,
by the way, that you suggest juries should have in determining -- in secret --
what laws of the state of Washington they should be interested in observing on
any particular day.
Defintely do not archive
--------
Bob Collins
St. Paul, Minn.
RV Builder's Hotline (free!)
http://rvhotline.expercraft.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p'109#96109
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M |
On the flip side of this.. Had the EAA performed those tests and the service
still failed they would certainly have been held responsible and maybe
rightfully so. When you take that extra step you also become extra
responsible or liable. EAA had every right to expect the fire rescue team
to be knowledgeable in their field. Yes I realize they were volunteers, but
they don't just pull people off the street who know nothing about fires.
I find it unfortunate the responders were immune to the lawsuit but others
in the field were allowed to come testify to what a bad job they did. Kind
of got their cake and ate it too.
Tim
Do Not Archive
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-
> server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Joseph Larson
> Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 4:07 PM
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M
>
>
> Bob,
>
> I think the basic problem is that none of us can be convinced that
> the EAA should have been expected to contract with services more
> qualified than the local fire department. I also don't feel that any
> of us can be convinced that the EAA should be expected to perform
> some sort of quality test on the local services. You might verify
> they have trucks and personnel and those personnel know how to handle
> gas fires and such, but you don't actually run your own tests to make
> sure the people are in top condition and responsiveness.
>
> I don't think any of us can understand why the EAA is responsible but
> the organization that was on scene providing the so-called faulty
> services was exempt. The ONLY reason I can imagine this being the
> case is if the plaintiff's lawyers didn't want the local jury to have
> to give an award that was coming out of their taxes. Fine, move the
> darned trial somewhere, but if there were faulty services, the FIRST
> people to blame are the ones who performed the faulty services.
>
> My expectation when I fly somewhere is that if I have a crash, that
> the nearest available units will respond in a timely and professional
> manner, but I have no expectations that the nearest people will be
> available on field. I certainly don't expect rescue services to
> actually be in their hot, hot gear around the clock. And if I die
> because they were too slow, even unprofessionally slow, that's my
> tough luck. Unless I specifically contracted with the people for
> services they didn't provide, too bad, so sad. This concept of
> implied responsibility is very distressing.
>
> This case isn't a case of no rescue services available. It's not
> even a case of whether those rescue services were some shoddy, fly by
> night operation. It was the local fire department who in virtually
> all cases should be considered "good enough" without further checks.
> If those services were insufficient, it's the local fire department's
> fault, not the EAA's.
>
> I think there's plenty of blame to pass around on this issue, but
> none of it on the EAA.
>
> -J
>
> do not archive
>
>
> On Feb 19, 2007, at 3:11 PM, Bob Collins wrote:
>
> > <bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net>
> >
> > //I doubt any one person alive knows all the facts. But that did
> > not stop the jury from making a decision. So why should it stop me
> > from having an opinion?
> >
> > I'm not sure I understand this. What evidence do we have that the
> > jury made a decision without having the facts? It appears they
> > listened to the evidence and even -- according to John's article --
> > sent numerous questions back to the judge seeking clarification.
> > That indicated to me they were engaged with the facts... Certainly
> > more so than many of the folks on the RV list who've called them
> > stupid have been.
> >
> > I'm not sure, at this point, what folks expected the jury to do?
> > If the case came down to a question of whether Washington state law
> > allows the EAA to not check to be sure the firefighting services
> > they contracted for were, in fact, provided (and the testimony says
> > it did not), and if Washington state law says that signing a
> > contract doesn't transfer liability away from the EAA, then what
> > exactly is a jury supposed to do if the person running the fly-in
> > testifies that she didn't know what services were being provided?
> > If we expect the jury to ignore the law that the legislators --
> > acting as representatives of the voters -- enacted, then aren't we
> > saying to them: ignore the FACT of law?
> >
> > I think one of the distressing elements of society today, frankly,
> > is that we assume people who don't share the same opinion we share,
> > are stupid. To me -- as someone who has covered politics for years
> > -- this is what has led to our polarized society. We are so
> > entrenched with our opinions, that we demonize those who have
> > different opinions. Pretty soon the merits of a discussion fall
> > victim to some sort of "good vs. evil" ... "smart vs. stupid."
> >
> > In many ways, life has come to mirror the art of Internet bulletin
> > boards I'm pretty sure this all comes back to the PC vs. Apple
> > debate. (g)
> >
> > It's time to move on from this now, and concentrate on convincing
> > me whether I not I should install the canopy release mechanism.(g)
> >
> > Do not archive
> >
> > --------
> > Bob Collins
> > St. Paul, Minn.
> > RV Builder's Hotline (free!)
> > http://rvhotline.expercraft.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p'087#96087
> >
>
>
>
>
Message 34
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Here is a link to the article. The FCC made their respective licenses
conditional on the fact they couldn't ever merge. Should be interesting
to see how this shakes out. I don't think anyone really ever expected
two companies to survive.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070219/ap_on_bi_ge/xm_radio_sirius
Michael Sausen
-10 #352 Limbo
Do not archive
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of lucky
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 4:00 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Sirius and XM
"outer space" is controlled, frequencies are controlled, american
companies are controlled, etc,
-------------- Original message --------------
From: Joseph Larson <jpl@showpage.org>
Hmm. Can this even be regulated by the feds? The sats are in
outer space, which isn't managed by the US govt.
-J
do not archive
On Feb 19, 2007, at 2:51 PM, David Burton wrote:
After a lot of speculation it looks like a deal has been made
for Sirius and XM to merge. Somehow I think the Federal regulators are
going to have problems with this since it will remove any competition
between satellite radio providers. I wonder what the effect on our
equipment and service will be if this goes through...
Dave
Flying 172/182
Building RV6
- The RV-List Email Forum -
class="Apple-converted-space"> -->
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List> - NEW
MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - class="Apple-converted-space"> -->
http://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com/>
Message 35
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Apparently it is true:
http://tinyurl.com/2rdjoj
funny, after theyve been denying it for so long, like fer example:
http://www.orbitcast.com/archives/sirius-xm-merger-enough-already.html
it MAY help me, as I have Sirius subscription & hardware & will need XM
for weather in the plane when its done
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of David Burton
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 3:52 PM
Subject: RV-List: Sirius and XM
After a lot of speculation it looks like a deal has been made for Sirius and
XM to merge. Somehow I think the Federal regulators are going to have
problems with this since it will remove any competition between satellite
radio providers. I wonder what the effect on our equipment and service will
be if this goes through
Dave
Flying 172/182
Building RV6
--
4:35 PM
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M |
n616tb(at)btsapps.com wrote:
> On the flip side of this.. Had the EAA performed those tests and the service
> still failed they would certainly have been held responsible and maybe
> rightfully so. When you take that extra step you also become extra
> responsible or liable.
I'm not sure that they would have been more liable if they'd taken that step. The
jury seemed to suggest that they were liable TO take that step. Taking that
step, it seems to me, would have only exposed the EAA further *IF* the services
provided were not up to the standards. But I would expect -- and I think the
court would have to agree -- that the entire point would have been if the fire
services were not up to par, the EAA/NWEAA does not proceded with the fly-in.
I don't think the EAA becomes any more liable if the fly-in exec. director had
been *more* knowledgeable about these details.
BTW, is it established that this was a volunteer fire crew? I don't know anything
about the city of Arlington.
Do not archive
--------
Bob Collins
St. Paul, Minn.
RV Builder's Hotline (free!)
http://rvhotline.expercraft.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p'128#96128
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M |
jpl(at)showpage.org wrote:
> Bob,
>
> I think the basic problem is that none of us can be convinced that
> the EAA should have been expected to contract with services more
> qualified than the local fire department.
I'm not convinced of that either. The problem is that was the job of the EAA/NWEAA
to make that case. Not the jury to make that decision.
See, the way the court looked at is by merely signing a contract to provide the
services, the EAA was acknowledging that fire services were important. So they
couldn't really come out at this point and say, 'oh, we couldn't be expected
to provide fire services.'
The guy who really creamed the EAA here was James Nilo, the guy who runs the Virginia
airports fire response. He testified about the standards and the EAA's
response. IN my reading of the court documents, the EAA's response to that was
rather to define these standards, the lawyers opted instead to make two points
(1) a crew stationed at midfield would not have reached the RVator any quicker
and (2) The RVator would've died anyway.
You may well be right in your point and I think it's a bit unfortunate the EAA/NWEAA
attorneys didn't attempt to redefine what proper standards would be in a
fly-in like this.
//I don't think any of us can understand why the EAA is responsible but
the organization that was on scene providing the so-called faulty
services was exempt. The ONLY reason I can imagine this being the
case is if the plaintiff's lawyers didn't want the local jury to have
to give an award that was coming out of their taxes. Fine, move the
darned trial somewhere, but if there were faulty services, the FIRST
people to blame are the ones who performed the faulty services.
Read the article again if you have time. Apparently it's state law in Washington
that the City of Arlington would be exempt in a case like this. I don't think
the plaintiff's lawyers had anything to do with it. I think they probably would've
been happy to have Arlington held liable.
The problem is that -- because of Snohomish County's screwy law -- different judges
sat on this case at different points. So the first judge says "Arlingotn
is exempt" and the second judge -- later -- says "OK, Arlington is exempt, and
now the liability transfers to the EAA/NWEA>"
And in the end, what the EAA concentrated on was trying to convince one judge,
what the OTHER judge meant. That's just plain nuts.
//If those services were insufficient, it's the local fire department's
fault, not the EAA's.
//I think there's plenty of blame to pass around on this issue, but
none of it on the EAA.
I personally think that's a reasonable conclusion. Unfortunately, I don't think
the judge didn't give the jury the leeway to reach it.
do not archive
--------
Bob Collins
St. Paul, Minn.
RV Builder's Hotline (free!)
http://rvhotline.expercraft.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p'130#96130
Message 38
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| Subject: | 27 Years of the RV-ator on searchable CD |
27 Years of the RVator will be available in early April. This year,
besides as a book, it will also be available on a fully searchable CD.
The book is getting fatter and fatter, and regardless of how much care
we take to organize the articles in what we think is the most logical
way, there are still many times when certain important pieces of
information are not easily found. As a CD, or as an e-Book, you simply
search for what you need (for example exhaust systems) and you are
directed to every article Van has written on the subject, regardless of
whether we put it in Engine Installation chapter, or Powerplant
Operation, or Safety Notices, or Options, or wherever.
SPECIAL OFFER
As we've still got about 100 copies of the 24 Year Book on the shelf,
here's an offer while they last. Order a copy of the 24 Year book today
from the link below, and besides the book now, we will send you a FREE
copy of the 27 Year CD when it becomes available in April. Just write
in the special notes section of the shopping cart "27Year CD". Or
place the order by phone to 800 780-4115
http://www.buildersbooks.com/24_years_of_the_rvator_vans_.htm
Thanks,
Andy Gold
Builders Bookstore
www.buildersbooks.com
800 780-4115
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M |
Like most of us I can only draw from my own experience. When I go to the race
track to
race my car with others of like minds...I pay someone for the use of that track
and the
facilities/services provided there. The services I pay for are defined in documentation
and I do very much expect them to be competent, properly equipped and capable of
saving
me when things go wrong. The article I read (posted here) stated that the EAA
had
required a certain type of equipment be onsite for this event. Which means EAA
members
flying in could and should expect that equipment be onsite. That equipment was
not
there.
That ladies and gentlemen ends our discussion on why the EAA is responsible for
paying
$10.5M. If you MAKE the requirement, and then do not follow it...you have shot
yourself
in the posterior and nobody can save you. They wrote down the requirement...there
just
is no way around it. Negligence, pay up.
Bill
Don't pick lemons.
See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.
http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html
Message 40
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| Subject: | re: Pilot's Family Awarded $10.5M |
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Any idea how much insurance coverage the EAA parent organization has?
Message 41
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| Subject: | Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M |
Bill, that isn't so. There was equipment on the field at the time. This
occurred just prior to the airport being closed for the airshow. A fire
engine was stationed on the west side of the field as it is every day at
almost any airshow I have attended. I am not entirely sure why the choice
was made to dispatch a truck from somewhere else other than because the
accident occurred on the East side of the field across the active runways.
The accident did not look survivable and it may have played a contributing
factor in decisions made in the heat of the moment. I do not know how they
do this. I also could not speak to weather this would have made a
difference.
Tim
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-
> server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bill shook
> Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 5:43 PM
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M
>
>
> Like most of us I can only draw from my own experience. When I go to the
> race track to
> race my car with others of like minds...I pay someone for the use of that
> track and the
> facilities/services provided there. The services I pay for are defined in
> documentation
> and I do very much expect them to be competent, properly equipped and
> capable of saving
> me when things go wrong. The article I read (posted here) stated that the
> EAA had
> required a certain type of equipment be onsite for this event. Which
> means EAA members
> flying in could and should expect that equipment be onsite. That
> equipment was not
> there.
>
> That ladies and gentlemen ends our discussion on why the EAA is
> responsible for paying
> $10.5M. If you MAKE the requirement, and then do not follow it...you have
> shot yourself
> in the posterior and nobody can save you. They wrote down the
> requirement...there just
> is no way around it. Negligence, pay up.
>
> Bill
>
>
>
> Don't pick lemons.
> See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.
> http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html
>
>
>
Message 42
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Vincent:
Thanks for the tip. It hadnt occurred to me that vinyl was an option for
panel finishing and I am now considering going this route. Question: Some
of my instruments fit into their corresponding holes from the back of the
panel, so that from the front of the panel, there is absolutely no
overlapping bezel to hide any imperfections in the hole cut in the panel
and any overlying vinyl that would be applied. Maybe its not a big deal,
but Im concerned that I may not be able to apply the vinyl over my panel
and then cut a hole in it that perfectly matches the hole cut in the
underlying panel. Do you have a suggested foolproof technique? I guess the
upside is that if blow it, I can easily start over.
Related questions: (1) Do you have any recommendations for panel labeling
on top of a vinyl covered panel?
(2) I dont trust matching colors from my computer screen. I assume
suppliers will generally provide samples for this?
thanks
Erich Weaver
Message 43
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| Subject: | Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M |
// [quote="lors01(at)msn.com"]To answer meaningfully, you would have
to give a logical reason why the framers of the Constitution wanted a
jury system if it was not as a check on a legal system gone bad.
T.C.
The jury system was part of an entire system of governance enacted by
tthe Founding Fathers. To say that the jury system exists because the
Founding Fathers knew the rest of the system they devised had already
"gone bad" is a questionable conclusion.
Defintely do not archive
--------
Bob Collins
Not questionable at all. As much as I revere and cherish it, they knew
full well that the system they set in motion was inherently unstable.
To quote one of them, "The price of Liberty is eternal vigilance".
There is a killing lack of that.
Tracy Crook
Message 44
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| Subject: | RV-7A N174JL has a new owner... |
Just thought I would inform you that my RV-7A, N174JL has a new owner.
After posting a recent For Sale ad on the SoCAL and RV-List, it took only
hours before I was contacted by Chuck Olsen, USAF Major from Edwards AFB,
resident of Tehachapi, CA, (and MANY others) who were interested in the
plane. Chuck drove 2.5 hrs to Camarillo prior to the Super Bowl, 4 FEB,
inspected the plane, went for a ride, and made me an offer I accepted.
Chuck is a Global-Hawk drone pilot, C130 Gunship Navigator at Edwards AFB,
first-time aircraft owner, and a great guy!
Chuck and I completed an annual inspection this past Saturday, and put
N174JL back together. It was Saturday afternoon when the winds had died
down, and we planned to take a few laps around the field here at Camarillo
and perform a few touch & go's. Wouldn't you know it... the FLAP MOTOR
decided it didn't want to work (flaps were extended) and we were grounded!
The flap motor had worked flawlessly up until now and had been cycled at
least 4+ times during the annual inspection!!! A quick call to Gregg Healy
(RV-7A builder at CMA) and he allowed me to go to his hangar early Sunday
morning, remove his flap motor in his 'not-yet-flying' RV-7A, then I pulled
the flap motor from N174JL, and had the new motor ready to be installed as
Chuck was arriving around 0830! Wheeeeewwww.... what a chore! (Thanks
Gregg... your new, replacement flap motor is on order from Van's).
Chuck and I did a few touch and go's at Oxnard Airport (KOXR) Sunday morning
and then returned to CMA to meet his co-pilot Jim who has an RV-6A with a
Subaru installed. At approx. 1115, Chuck and Jim departed KCMA in N174JL
and she was off to her new home in a hangar at Tehachapi, CA (KTSP). Falcon
Insurance required a 3-hour check-out in N174JL for Chuck so Jim was
performing that duty after I climbed out of the right seat...
N174JL was just one-month short of being 2 years old. First flight was on
3/17/2005 (see http://www.jacklockamy.com/N174JL_First_Flight_Video.wmv).
She had 260.3 wonderful hours on the tach and hasn't missed a beat! Great
airplane but I am doing LOTS of cross-country flight these days on business
and have decided to go into a partnership in a 2003 Cirrus SR20. My new
partner also has an RV-3A for local, fun flights but it may soon be for sale
to make room for a possible Harmon Rocket project (I still have all my tools
and LOVE to build airplanes...).
Please welcome Chuck Olsen, his wife Carla, and N174JL when you see them
flying in the SoCAL area.... You guys (and gals) have been wonderful and
I'll see you all on a ramp around the area soon I'm sure...
Jack Lockamy
Camarillo, CA
N174JL RV-7A SOLD
N200GR Cirrus SR20
N633TB RV-3A
www.jacklockamy.com
jacklockamy@verizon.net
Message 45
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| Subject: | Re: RV-7A N174JL has a new owner... |
Jack,
I knew the plane would not last. Nice job on the
construction!! I'm feeling you'll build another, ;-)
Darrell
do not archive
--- Jack Lockamy <jacklockamy@verizon.net> wrote:
> Just thought I would inform you that my RV-7A,
> N174JL has a new owner.
>
>
>
> After posting a recent For Sale ad on the SoCAL and
> RV-List, it took only
> hours before I was contacted by Chuck Olsen, USAF
> Major from Edwards AFB,
> resident of Tehachapi, CA, (and MANY others) who
> were interested in the
> plane. Chuck drove 2.5 hrs to Camarillo prior to
> the Super Bowl, 4 FEB,
> inspected the plane, went for a ride, and made me an
> offer I accepted.
> Chuck is a Global-Hawk drone pilot, C130 Gunship
> Navigator at Edwards AFB,
> first-time aircraft owner, and a great guy!
>
>
>
> Chuck and I completed an annual inspection this past
> Saturday, and put
> N174JL back together. It was Saturday afternoon
> when the winds had died
> down, and we planned to take a few laps around the
> field here at Camarillo
> and perform a few touch & go's. Wouldn't you know
> it... the FLAP MOTOR
> decided it didn't want to work (flaps were extended)
> and we were grounded!
> The flap motor had worked flawlessly up until now
> and had been cycled at
> least 4+ times during the annual inspection!!! A
> quick call to Gregg Healy
> (RV-7A builder at CMA) and he allowed me to go to
> his hangar early Sunday
> morning, remove his flap motor in his
> 'not-yet-flying' RV-7A, then I pulled
> the flap motor from N174JL, and had the new motor
> ready to be installed as
> Chuck was arriving around 0830! Wheeeeewwww....
> what a chore! (Thanks
> Gregg... your new, replacement flap motor is on
> order from Van's).
>
>
>
> Chuck and I did a few touch and go's at Oxnard
> Airport (KOXR) Sunday morning
> and then returned to CMA to meet his co-pilot Jim
> who has an RV-6A with a
> Subaru installed. At approx. 1115, Chuck and Jim
> departed KCMA in N174JL
> and she was off to her new home in a hangar at
> Tehachapi, CA (KTSP). Falcon
> Insurance required a 3-hour check-out in N174JL for
> Chuck so Jim was
> performing that duty after I climbed out of the
> right seat...
>
>
>
> N174JL was just one-month short of being 2 years
> old. First flight was on
> 3/17/2005 (see
>
http://www.jacklockamy.com/N174JL_First_Flight_Video.wmv).
> She had 260.3 wonderful hours on the tach and hasn't
> missed a beat! Great
> airplane but I am doing LOTS of cross-country flight
> these days on business
> and have decided to go into a partnership in a 2003
> Cirrus SR20. My new
> partner also has an RV-3A for local, fun flights but
> it may soon be for sale
> to make room for a possible Harmon Rocket project (I
> still have all my tools
> and LOVE to build airplanes...).
>
>
>
> Please welcome Chuck Olsen, his wife Carla, and
> N174JL when you see them
> flying in the SoCAL area.... You guys (and gals)
> have been wonderful and
> I'll see you all on a ramp around the area soon I'm
> sure...
>
>
>
> Jack Lockamy
>
> Camarillo, CA
>
> N174JL RV-7A SOLD
>
> N200GR Cirrus SR20
>
> N633TB RV-3A
>
> www.jacklockamy.com
>
> jacklockamy@verizon.net
>
>
>
>
No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go
with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/mail
Message 46
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| Subject: | Re: It's flyable! |
Congratulations Bobby, good on ya!
Marty
Message 47
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| Subject: | Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M |
In a message dated 2/19/2007 1:19:12 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net writes:
I think one of the distressing elements of society today, frankly, is that
we assume people who don't share the same opinion we share, are stupid.
=====================================
Not stupid, just misguided, and I forgive you all in advance. All of my
forgiveness will never amount to my agreeing with them, however. Much of the
argumentation these days surrounds issues such as how many angels can dance on
the head of a pin, or what is the sound of one hand clapping, when the
answers are meaningless.
GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A, C/S, Flying 833hrs, Silicon Valley, CA)
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