Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:34 AM - Re: Re: Nose Gear Intersection Leg Fairing (Dale Ensing)
2. 05:12 AM - Re: Re: Nose Gear Intersection Leg Fairing (Rick Galati)
3. 05:33 AM - Re: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR (Russell Daves)
4. 07:37 AM - Re: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR (Bruce Gray)
5. 08:44 AM - Re: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR (John Jessen)
6. 09:01 AM - Re: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR (Lloyd, Daniel R.)
7. 09:03 AM - Re: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR (Lloyd, Daniel R.)
8. 09:29 AM - Re: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR (Sam Buchanan)
9. 09:47 AM - Re: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR (Bruce Gray)
10. 09:50 AM - Re: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR (Bruce Gray)
11. 10:03 AM - Re: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR (Dana Overall)
12. 10:39 AM - Re: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR (David Maib)
13. 10:40 AM - Re: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR (Bill Boyd)
14. 10:41 AM - Re: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR (Kevin Horton)
15. 10:41 AM - Re: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR (John Jessen)
16. 10:45 AM - Re: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR (Lloyd, Daniel R.)
17. 10:46 AM - Re: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR (Dana Overall)
18. 11:15 AM - Re: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR (Dan Checkoway)
19. 12:10 PM - Re: Glass for IFR Glass for IFR (Matt Jurotich)
20. 12:21 PM - Re: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR (Bob J.)
21. 12:33 PM - Re: Glass for IFR Glass for IFR (Bill Boyd)
22. 12:40 PM - Re: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR (Bruce Gray)
23. 01:07 PM - Re: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR (Joseph Larson)
24. 01:27 PM - volume/pressure question (Brian Meyette)
25. 01:33 PM - Re: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR (Sam Buchanan)
26. 04:18 PM - Re: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR (Charles Reiche)
27. 05:29 PM - Re: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR (Sherman Butler)
28. 06:01 PM - Re: Glass for IFR (Bret Smith)
29. 06:52 PM - Re: Glass for IFR (Bruce Gray)
30. 07:30 PM - Re: Glass for IFR (Bret Smith)
31. 07:56 PM - Re: Glass for IFR (Bruce Gray)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Nose Gear Intersection Leg Fairing |
Rick,
Your nose gear intersection fairing appears to fit the gear leg fairing
much better then mine. On mine, the intersection fairing opening
(Fairings-etc) is wider than the gear leg fairing (Van's). Did you do
anything to make this a better fit?
Dale Ensing
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick Galati
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, February 26, 2007 3:52 PM
Subject: RV-List: Re: Nose Gear Intersection Leg Fairing
My high quality Bob Snedaker (Fairings-etc.) upper nose gear
intersection fairing is held in place by 2 #6 screws. The nutplates are
attached to bits of aluminum attached to the lower cowl. The fairing
sits in a recess of built-up filler producing a smooth transition with
the lower cowl. To remove the lower cowl, I just remove the 2 screws
holding the fairing in place and let the fairing slide down and out of
the way on the leg fairing.
http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/9435/uppernosegearlegfairingxc6.jpg
Rick Galati RV-6A "Darla"
Message 2
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| Subject: | re: re: Nose Gear Intersection Leg Fairing |
Dale,
The intersection fairing is wider than the gear leg fairing. I would suppose
it is designed that way to avoid certain chaffing as the nose gear flexes quite
a bit fore and aft depending upon the varying weight and load conditions imposed
upon it.
Rick Galati RV-6A "Darla"
Rick,
Your nose gear intersection fairing appears to fit the gear leg fairing much better
then mine. On mine, the intersection fairing opening (Fairings-etc) is wider
than the gear leg fairing (Van's). Did you do anything to make this a better
fit?
Dale Ensing
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR |
Nice panel. I have a stupid question, if you're flying along in solid
IMC
and all of a sudden one of your EFIS says you're turning right and
the
other
says you're turning left, on which one do you bet your life?
Bruce
www.glasair.org
You immediately turn on your autopilot which is independent of the GRT
EFIS and after the autopilot levels the airplane you turn off the bad
EFIS.
Russ Daves
N710RV - First Flight 7/28/06
Message 4
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| Subject: | Glass for IFRGlass for IFR |
Now that's scary!
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Russell Daves
Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 8:31 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR
Nice panel. I have a stupid question, if you're flying along in solid
IMC
and all of a sudden one of your EFIS says you're turning right and
the
other
says you're turning left, on which one do you bet your life?
Bruce
www.glasair.org
You immediately turn on your autopilot which is independent of the GRT
EFIS
and after the autopilot levels the airplane you turn off the bad EFIS.
Russ Daves
N710RV - First Flight 7/28/06
Message 5
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| Subject: | Glass for IFRGlass for IFR |
Guys. We the uninitiated, need to know why something is scary or why
something is cool. Thanks.
John Jessen
RV-10 emp
_____
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Gray
Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 7:33 AM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR
Now that's scary!
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Russell Daves
Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 8:31 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR
Nice panel. I have a stupid question, if you're flying along in solid
IMC
and all of a sudden one of your EFIS says you're turning right and the
other
says you're turning left, on which one do you bet your life?
Bruce
www.glasair.org
You immediately turn on your autopilot which is independent of the GRT EFIS
and after the autopilot levels the airplane you turn off the bad EFIS.
Russ Daves
N710RV - First Flight 7/28/06
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/N
avigator?RV-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 6
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| Subject: | Glass for IFRGlass for IFR |
This is also how I have it setup in my plane, if there is a conflict
between the Chelton and the Dynon, Engage the sorcerer and turn off the
offending equipment.
Dan
N289DT
_____
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Russell Daves
Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 8:31 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR
Nice panel. I have a stupid question, if you're flying along in solid
IMC
and all of a sudden one of your EFIS says you're turning right and
the
other
says you're turning left, on which one do you bet your life?
Bruce
www.glasair.org
You immediately turn on your autopilot which is independent of the GRT
EFIS and after the autopilot levels the airplane you turn off the bad
EFIS.
Russ Daves
N710RV - First Flight 7/28/06
Message 7
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| Subject: | Glass for IFRGlass for IFR |
Why is triple redundancy scary? You would also have the virtual panel in
a hand held GPS as a 4th backup.
Just how far do you want to take it? You can spend as much or as little
as you want.
Dan
N289DT
_____
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Gray
Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 10:33 AM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR
Now that's scary!
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Russell Daves
Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 8:31 AM
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR
Nice panel. I have a stupid question, if you're flying along in
solid
IMC
and all of a sudden one of your EFIS says you're turning
right and the
other
says you're turning left, on which one do you bet your
life?
Bruce
www.glasair.org
You immediately turn on your autopilot which is independent of
the GRT EFIS and after the autopilot levels the airplane you turn off
the bad EFIS.
Russ Daves
N710RV - First Flight 7/28/06
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.
c
om/Navigator?RV-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR |
Bruce Gray wrote:
> Now that's scary!
If I was flying in IMC with my dual-glass plane and there was a
conflict, I wouldn't have to worry about turning on the autopilot.
It would have already been on since entering IMC.
With the new solid-state coupled autopilots, I don't see a need for much
hand flying in IMC. Seems the FAA has *finally* come around to a similar
position as it pertains to IFR training and their new emphasis on
teaching autopilot operation.
Sam Buchanan
===========================
>
>
>
> Bruce
> www.glasair.org
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> Nice panel. I have a stupid question, if you're flying along in solid
> IMC
> and all of a sudden one of your EFIS says you're turning right and the
>
> other
> says you're turning left, on which one do you bet your life?
>
>
> Bruce
> www.glasair.org
>
> You immediately turn on your autopilot which is independent of the GRT EFIS
> and after the autopilot levels the airplane you turn off the bad EFIS.
>
> Russ Daves
> N710RV - First Flight 7/28/06
Message 9
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| Subject: | Glass for IFRGlass for IFR |
Have any of you thought of the alternator frying and in the process
burning
out the battery contactor and opps, no electro wizzies. Flip all the
dead
switches you want, no joy. Is there a reason why every certified
installation of an EFIS in a GA airplane has a Vacuum Attitude
Indicator,
ASI, and Altimeter as the backup?
Wait you say, I have a duel bus/battery power distribution system and
that
won't happen. It's happened. The last one I read about was an Airbus
loosing
all, and I mean ALL, power in the the cockpit. Total dark panel. The
only
thing left was that little 2.5 inch backup Jet Attitude Gyro and a
flashlight. (as an asside, what's the reboot time for your EFIS systems
if
you have an electrical hiccup? Can you fly without it for 3-4 minutes,
IMC,
in turblance?)
Or, you're flying along in solid IMC and the cockpit starts filling with
smoke. Smells like an electrical fire but no breakers have tripped. What
do
you do? Kill the master switch? But you need the EFIS to keep the right
side
up. Keep the electrical system operable and hope you can get on the
ground
before something more serious happens?
Think these equipment decisions through with care, your life is
dependant on
it.
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lloyd, Daniel
R.
Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 12:01 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR
This is also how I have it setup in my plane, if there is a conflict
between
the Chelton and the Dynon, Engage the sorcerer and turn off the
offending
equipment.
Dan
N289DT
_____
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Russell Daves
Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 8:31 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR
Nice panel. I have a stupid question, if you're flying along in solid
IMC
and all of a sudden one of your EFIS says you're turning right and
the
other
says you're turning left, on which one do you bet your life?
Bruce
www.glasair.org
You immediately turn on your autopilot which is independent of the GRT
EFIS
and after the autopilot levels the airplane you turn off the bad EFIS.
Russ Daves
N710RV - First Flight 7/28/06
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.
com/N
avigator?RV-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 10
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| Subject: | Glass for IFRGlass for IFR |
I think the FAA emphasis is on reducing pilot workload and using all
available tools to do so. What would you do in your airplane if you had an
electrical fire?
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam Buchanan
Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 12:29 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR
Bruce Gray wrote:
> Now that's scary!
If I was flying in IMC with my dual-glass plane and there was a
conflict, I wouldn't have to worry about turning on the autopilot.
It would have already been on since entering IMC.
With the new solid-state coupled autopilots, I don't see a need for much
hand flying in IMC. Seems the FAA has *finally* come around to a similar
position as it pertains to IFR training and their new emphasis on
teaching autopilot operation.
Sam Buchanan
===========================
>
>
>
> Bruce
> www.glasair.org
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> Nice panel. I have a stupid question, if you're flying along in solid
> IMC
> and all of a sudden one of your EFIS says you're turning right and
the
>
> other
> says you're turning left, on which one do you bet your life?
>
>
> Bruce
> www.glasair.org
>
> You immediately turn on your autopilot which is independent of the GRT
EFIS
> and after the autopilot levels the airplane you turn off the bad EFIS.
>
> Russ Daves
> N710RV - First Flight 7/28/06
Message 11
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| Subject: | Glass for IFRGlass for IFR |
>From: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce@glasair.org>
>
>Now that's scary!
>
I on the other hand see that as comforting. My glass setup has just that
style autopilot redundancy. IMC, there ya go George, fly on.
Dana Overall
Richmond, KY i39
RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic"
O 360 A1A, C/S C2YK-1BF/F7666A4
http://rvflying.tripod.com/blackwing1.jpg
http://rvflying.tripod.com
do not archive
_________________________________________________________________
Dont miss your chance to WIN 10 hours of private jet travel from Microsoft
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR |
I would make an emergency descent and land ASAP. Glass or steam
gauge. I will have at least once source of attitude reference that is
completely independent of the airplane electrical system. It will not
be vacuum.
David Maib
40559
QB wings
On Feb 27, 2007, at 11:49 AM, Bruce Gray wrote:
I think the FAA emphasis is on reducing pilot workload and using all
available tools to do so. What would you do in your airplane if you
had an
electrical fire?
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam Buchanan
Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 12:29 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR
Bruce Gray wrote:
> Now that's scary!
If I was flying in IMC with my dual-glass plane and there was a
conflict, I wouldn't have to worry about turning on the autopilot.
It would have already been on since entering IMC.
With the new solid-state coupled autopilots, I don't see a need for much
hand flying in IMC. Seems the FAA has *finally* come around to a similar
position as it pertains to IFR training and their new emphasis on
teaching autopilot operation.
Sam Buchanan
===========================
>
>
> Bruce
> www.glasair.org
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> Nice panel. I have a stupid question, if you're flying along in solid
> IMC
> and all of a sudden one of your EFIS says you're turning
> right and
the
>
> other
> says you're turning left, on which one do you bet your life?
>
>
> Bruce
> www.glasair.org
>
> You immediately turn on your autopilot which is independent of the GRT
EFIS
> and after the autopilot levels the airplane you turn off the bad EFIS.
>
> Russ Daves
> N710RV - First Flight 7/28/06
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR |
On 2/27/07, Bruce Gray <Bruce@glasair.org> wrote:
>
> I think the FAA emphasis is on reducing pilot workload and using all
> available tools to do so. What would you do in your airplane if you had an
> electrical fire?
>>
Bruce
> www.glasair.org
I'd radio my final instructions to my next of kin: get a mean lawyer
and sue the ever-loving stuffin's out of the companies that
manufactured the fuses and wire in the plane, because that simply
cannot occur unless _they_ made a _big_ mistake.
Actually, I'd roll over and go back to sleep, knowing I was dreaming,
since electrical fires don't happen in properly designed and built
cockpits, for the reason given above. But I might worry a little
that, once asleep again, I'd return to dreaming about "dark and stormy
night" scenarios. It's more likely I'd have dreams about vacuum
system failures, because they are much more likely.
Put another way, Bruce, I think if your question was posed on the
AeroElectric list, you'd eventually hear that your time could be
better spent worrying about a prop bolt failure than about the
disastrous failure of a properly-designed and built electrical system
in an OBAM aircraft, given the statistical likelihood of each. I
believe Bob N. is right about that. You are welcome to differ, but
"please bring data."
-Stormy
who has "no problem" with triple-redundancy; it's good in avionics and
it's good in DC power distribution :-)
Drink the KoolAid, Bruce ;-) Resistance is futile.
Actually, it's volts/amperes, but that's not important right now...
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR |
On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 07:31:22 -0600
"Russell Daves" <dav1111@cox.net> wrote:
> Nice panel. I have a stupid question, if you're flying along in solid
> IMC
> and all of a sudden one of your EFIS says you're turning right and the
> other
> says you're turning left, on which one do you bet your life?
>
>
> Bruce
> www.glasair.org
>
> You immediately turn on your autopilot which is independent of the GRT EFIS and
after the autopilot levels the airplane you turn off the bad EFIS.
>
If you are counting on this plan to work, you might want to see how well your autopilot
handles when you engage it during an unusual attitude. Maybe it'll do
OK, but I suspect it won't do so well from anything more than minor unusual
attitudes. If your autopilot isn't up to the task, it is better to find that
out on a nice blue sky day than to make this discovery after you end up in an
unusual attitude due to an EFIS that has lost its way.
Kevin Horton
Message 15
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| Subject: | Glass for IFRGlass for IFR |
Bruce, these are good points, but we do have all electric GA IFR aircraft
being built. I believe the Columbia is one such, with full redundancy.
Perhaps many builders are not including the full redundancy, and that is
something to consider. But, I think it's fair to say that GA manufacturers
are trying hard to get vacuum out of their lexicon. From their website:
Redundant Electrical Systems - Other modern aircraft advertise being
"all-electric", however the dual electrical systems on Columbia aircraft are
fully-redundant. The critical difference between dual and redundant is that
many aircraft with dual electrical systems have a lesser back-up electric
system that cannot operate all standard systems. Consequently, the pilot is
forced to make critical decisions to shed power, pull breakers and/or run a
partial panel. The second electrical system on Columbia aircraft is a fully
redundant system equal in every way to the other system. Thus either
electrical system on a Columbia aircraft can start the aircraft and run all
standard systems independent of the other electrical system. Dual 60 amp
alternators, dual 15 amp hour batteries, dual busses and dual wiring
harnesses ensure that an electrical emergency will not force the pilot to
shed power, pull breakers, turn off critical standard systems or fly a
partial panel in the event of an electrical emergency. Safety by Design -
Not by Default.
_____
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Gray
Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 9:46 AM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR
Have any of you thought of the alternator frying and in the process burning
out the battery contactor and opps, no electro wizzies. Flip all the dead
switches you want, no joy. Is there a reason why every certified
installation of an EFIS in a GA airplane has a Vacuum Attitude Indicator,
ASI, and Altimeter as the backup?
Wait you say, I have a duel bus/battery power distribution system and that
won't happen. It's happened. The last one I read about was an Airbus loosing
all, and I mean ALL, power in the the cockpit. Total dark panel. The only
thing left was that little 2.5 inch backup Jet Attitude Gyro and a
flashlight. (as an asside, what's the reboot time for your EFIS systems if
you have an electrical hiccup? Can you fly without it for 3-4 minutes, IMC,
in turblance?)
Or, you're flying along in solid IMC and the cockpit starts filling with
smoke. Smells like an electrical fire but no breakers have tripped. What do
you do? Kill the master switch? But you need the EFIS to keep the right side
up. Keep the electrical system operable and hope you can get on the ground
before something more serious happens?
Think these equipment decisions through with care, your life is dependant on
it.
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lloyd, Daniel R.
Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 12:01 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR
This is also how I have it setup in my plane, if there is a conflict between
the Chelton and the Dynon, Engage the sorcerer and turn off the offending
equipment.
Dan
N289DT
_____
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Russell Daves
Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 8:31 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR
Nice panel. I have a stupid question, if you're flying along in solid
IMC
and all of a sudden one of your EFIS says you're turning right and the
other
says you're turning left, on which one do you bet your life?
Bruce
www.glasair.org
You immediately turn on your autopilot which is independent of the GRT EFIS
and after the autopilot levels the airplane you turn off the bad EFIS.
Russ Daves
N710RV - First Flight 7/28/06
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/N
avigator?RV-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/N
avigator?RV-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 16
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| Subject: | Glass for IFRGlass for IFR |
The way you respond to this is that my engine is electrically dependant
so I can not kill the master, but I do have redundant busses and I can
kill the avionics buss. My dynon is battery powered, the 496 is battery
powered, and so is the portable Icom radio. So I can still stay up
right, navigate, and communicate. The engine is on the e-buss and so is
the prop controller, and will last more than 1 hour on this battery,
which can be parallel, prior in the circuit to the avionics master, with
the other battery to extend the flight if necassary. Other than that we
get into sky is falling routine and if you are that paranoid you should
not be flying single engine IFR in the first place.
IMHO
Dan
N289DT
_____
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Gray
Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 12:46 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR
Have any of you thought of the alternator frying and in the process
burning out the battery contactor and opps, no electro wizzies. Flip all
the dead switches you want, no joy. Is there a reason why every
certified installation of an EFIS in a GA airplane has a Vacuum Attitude
Indicator, ASI, and Altimeter as the backup?
Wait you say, I have a duel bus/battery power distribution system and
that won't happen. It's happened. The last one I read about was an
Airbus loosing all, and I mean ALL, power in the the cockpit. Total dark
panel. The only thing left was that little 2.5 inch backup Jet Attitude
Gyro and a flashlight. (as an asside, what's the reboot time for your
EFIS systems if you have an electrical hiccup? Can you fly without it
for 3-4 minutes, IMC, in turblance?)
Or, you're flying along in solid IMC and the cockpit starts filling with
smoke. Smells like an electrical fire but no breakers have tripped. What
do you do? Kill the master switch? But you need the EFIS to keep the
right side up. Keep the electrical system operable and hope you can get
on the ground before something more serious happens?
Think these equipment decisions through with care, your life is
dependant on it.
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lloyd, Daniel
R.
Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 12:01 PM
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: RV-List: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR
This is also how I have it setup in my plane, if there is a
conflict between the Chelton and the Dynon, Engage the sorcerer and turn
off the offending equipment.
Dan
N289DT
_____
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Russell Daves
Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 8:31 AM
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR
Nice panel. I have a stupid question, if you're flying along in
solid
IMC
and all of a sudden one of your EFIS says you're turning
right and the
other
says you're turning left, on which one do you bet your
life?
Bruce
www.glasair.org
You immediately turn on your autopilot which is independent of
the GRT EFIS and after the autopilot levels the airplane you turn off
the bad EFIS.
Russ Daves
N710RV - First Flight 7/28/06
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.
c
om/Navigator?RV-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.
c
om/Navigator?RV-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 17
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| Subject: | Glass for IFRGlass for IFR |
>From: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce@glasair.org>
>Or, you're flying along in solid IMC and the cockpit starts filling with
>smoke. Smells like an electrical fire but no breakers have tripped. What do
>you do? Kill the master switch? But you need the EFIS to keep the right
>side
>up.
Uh, rely on the internal Dynon backup battery............................
Dana Overall
Richmond, KY i39
RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic"
O 360 A1A, C/S C2YK-1BF/F7666A4
http://rvflying.tripod.com/blackwing1.jpg
http://rvflying.tripod.com
do not archive
_________________________________________________________________
The average US Credit Score is 675. The cost to see yours: $0 by Experian.
http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=660600&bcd=EMAILFOOTERAVERAGE
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR |
Anybody else have a Garmin handheld with their "simulated panel" interface?
It's actually pretty darn reliable! Definitely hope I never have to rely on
that, but at a minimum it can be an additional data point in the scan.
do not archive
)_( Dan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 10:45 AM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR
>
>
>>From: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce@glasair.org>
>
>>Or, you're flying along in solid IMC and the cockpit starts filling with
>>smoke. Smells like an electrical fire but no breakers have tripped. What
>>do
>>you do? Kill the master switch? But you need the EFIS to keep the right
>>side
>>up.
>
>
> Uh, rely on the internal Dynon backup battery............................
>
>
> Dana Overall
> Richmond, KY i39
> RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic"
> O 360 A1A, C/S C2YK-1BF/F7666A4
> http://rvflying.tripod.com/blackwing1.jpg
> http://rvflying.tripod.com
> do not archive
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> The average US Credit Score is 675. The cost to see yours: $0 by Experian.
> http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=660600&bcd=EMAILFOOTERAVERAGE
>
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Glass for IFR Glass for IFR |
I am adding a skid slip indicator just below the Garmin 480 as the
ultimate backup to the BMA and Dynon. Not flying yet.
Matthew M. Jurotich
e-mail mail to: <mjurotich@hst.nasa.gov>
phone : 301-286-5919
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR |
You know, it never ceases to amaze me how complicated the average RV builder
nowadays can make their airplane. Dual, triple, quadruple EFIS'es, dual
batteries, dual alternators, etc. I once asked a guy who had such stuff in
his airplane what he was supposed to do if the main battery shorted, and how
you would isolate it. The response I got was, well you pull this breaker,
no wait, that's not right, you pull this one, then, ummm pull this one. I
think... Hmmm... To see panel bling in an RV with a fixed-pitch prop
boggles my mind even more!
As Dan has pointed out, the Garmin simulated panel works amazingly well. A
Garmin 396 is as close to an EFIS as I will ever need in any airplane I
build, along with old school no-bling round instruments. Just my $.02.
I'll have less $$ in my F1 than many RV builders have in their panel alone,
with just as much panel functionality. Gotta put my kids thru college
someday.
Regards,
Bob Japundza
RV-6 flying F1 under const.
do not archive
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Glass for IFR Glass for IFR |
Matt, you know that won't replace gyro's, right?
So, where are you taking this - compass, ball and airspeed?
On 2/27/07, Matt Jurotich <mjurotich@hst.nasa.gov> wrote:
>
> I am adding a skid slip indicator just below the Garmin 480 as the
> ultimate backup to the BMA and Dynon. Not flying yet.
>
> Matthew M. Jurotich
>
> e-mail mail to: <mjurotich@hst.nasa.gov>
> phone : 301-286-5919
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Glass for IFRGlass for IFR |
Right on, if you can't fly your airplane with the master switch off,
you're
not doing something right.
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob J.
Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 3:21 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR
You know, it never ceases to amaze me how complicated the average RV
builder
nowadays can make their airplane. Dual, triple, quadruple EFIS'es, dual
batteries, dual alternators, etc. I once asked a guy who had such stuff
in
his airplane what he was supposed to do if the main battery shorted, and
how
you would isolate it. The response I got was, well you pull this
breaker,
no wait, that's not right, you pull this one, then, ummm pull this one.
I
think... Hmmm... To see panel bling in an RV with a fixed-pitch prop
boggles my mind even more!
As Dan has pointed out, the Garmin simulated panel works amazingly
well. A
Garmin 396 is as close to an EFIS as I will ever need in any airplane I
build, along with old school no-bling round instruments. Just my $.02.
I'll have less $$ in my F1 than many RV builders have in their panel
alone,
with just as much panel functionality. Gotta put my kids thru college
someday.
Regards,
Bob Japundza
RV-6 flying F1 under const.
do not archive
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR |
I think some bling makes sense. Because these are experimental
aircraft, I think some sort of engine monitor is a pretty good idea.
If you're going to do that, then something like dual-Dynons seems a
pretty logical choice. You end up with a very pleasant panel to fly
at a fairly reasonable cost.
A lot of us really don't want to put vacuum instruments into our
panel. Vacuum pumps fail. But I have *never* had an automobile
alternator fail, nor the associated equipment. I don't even take
particularly good care of my cars, and my current car has 170k miles
on it and is 12 years old.
Something to wonder -- what is the cost of a vacuum pump as compared
to a second (small) alternator and related goodies? Is swapping out
that alternator for a backup electrical system really adding anything
to the cost? I don't know, as i haven't priced it.
If the guy you talked to didn't know how to isolate his battery, that
means he didn't have things labeled clearly. It doesn't indicate a
flaw in the overall plan so much as a detail to consider. It's a
good question and one that any pilot should be able to answer before
hitting Start.
My panel will be such that a single failure in the clouds leaves me
enough system to find an airport.
-Joe
On Feb 27, 2007, at 2:21 PM, Bob J. wrote:
> You know, it never ceases to amaze me how complicated the average
> RV builder nowadays can make their airplane. Dual, triple,
> quadruple EFIS'es, dual batteries, dual alternators, etc. I once
> asked a guy who had such stuff in his airplane what he was supposed
> to do if the main battery shorted, and how you would isolate it.
> The response I got was, well you pull this breaker, no wait, that's
> not right, you pull this one, then, ummm pull this one. I
> think... Hmmm... To see panel bling in an RV with a fixed-pitch
> prop boggles my mind even more!
>
> As Dan has pointed out, the Garmin simulated panel works amazingly
> well. A Garmin 396 is as close to an EFIS as I will ever need in
> any airplane I build, along with old school no-bling round
> instruments. Just my $.02. I'll have less $$ in my F1 than many
> RV builders have in their panel alone, with just as much panel
> functionality. Gotta put my kids thru college someday.
>
> Regards,
> Bob Japundza
> RV-6 flying F1 under const.
> do not archive
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | volume/pressure question |
I know there are a lot of smart engineers out there, so I am hoping someone
can help me with a calculation that is beyond my knowledge.
BACKGROUND: My supercharged Eggenfellner STi engine starts and idles at a
too-high value (1500 rpm) after I connected the supercharger plumbing to the
intake manifold. It used to start at 1300, then drop back to 1000 after a
couple minutes, then drop to 750 after it got warmed up. With the
supercharger hooked up, and the wastegate open, it starts at 1500, then
drops to 1300, then it kind of fluctuates slowly between 1100 and 1280
awhile, then eventually (the one time I ran it that long) back to 750. Id
really rather it didnt start at such a high idle. Details & pics in my Feb
engine page http://brian76.mystarband.net/engineFeb07.htm
Id like to try to find out in advance how much overpressure I will have at
idle if I go to the not insignificant trouble of removing the supercharger
plumbing, cutting off the valve adapter, and welding on a larger valve
adapter.
THE PROBLEM: I am generating X amount of air volume in the supercharger
ducting. That volume being vented through a wastegate hole in the
ducting is causing a 7 psi pressure in the ducting, in front of the throttle
valve. If I change to a hole, what will the pressure be for that same
volume of air being generated? What would the pressure be if I changed to a
1 hole?
I suspect its more than just a simple matter of comparing the area of the
holes and multiplying that comparative ratio times the 7 psi (which of
course I can do myself). If that was true, a hole with 10 times the area
would still be holding back enough air for there to be 0.7 psi in the duct,
which I find hard to believe. I suspect its not a linear relationship, but
maybe it is. I hope someone who knows about these things can help
illuminate me.
Thanks,
brian
--
2:56 PM
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR |
Bruce Gray wrote:
>
> I think the FAA emphasis is on reducing pilot workload and using all
> available tools to do so. What would you do in your airplane if you had an
> electrical fire?
>
> Bruce
> www.glasair.org
This is a different question than the one you first posed.
You first asked "if you're flying along in solid IMC and all of a sudden
one of your EFIS says you're turning right and the other says you're
turning left, on which one do you bet your life?"
In my opinion the replies about letting the autopilot break the tie are
valid.
But you have now raised a different, unrelated question concerning an
electrical fire. Granted, ANY fire while airborne is potentially deadly
and one of our worse fears. But, with good wiring architecture the odds
of an electrical fire are very low, probably much lower than the odds I
will wad up the plane in a landing accident.
What does concern me greatly, however, is how many pilots think they can
hand fly their RVs in the crud on partial panel (airspeed, altimeter,
turn coordinator) while being stressed out with an inflight emergency. I
think the chances of surviving that scenario are very low but the odds
can be greatly improved by providing redundant, independent electrical
flight instruments (EFIS, autopilot, etc) that have the capability of
providing quality flight info.
Sam Buchanan
>
>
> Bruce Gray wrote:
>> Now that's scary!
>
> If I was flying in IMC with my dual-glass plane and there was a
> conflict, I wouldn't have to worry about turning on the autopilot.
>
> It would have already been on since entering IMC.
>
> With the new solid-state coupled autopilots, I don't see a need for much
> hand flying in IMC. Seems the FAA has *finally* come around to a similar
> position as it pertains to IFR training and their new emphasis on
> teaching autopilot operation.
>
> Sam Buchanan
>
> ===========================
>>
>>
>>
>> Bruce
>> www.glasair.org
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>
>> Nice panel. I have a stupid question, if you're flying along in solid
>> IMC
>> and all of a sudden one of your EFIS says you're turning right and
> the
>> other
>> says you're turning left, on which one do you bet your life?
>>
>>
>> Bruce
>> www.glasair.org
>>
>> You immediately turn on your autopilot which is independent of the GRT
> EFIS
>> and after the autopilot levels the airplane you turn off the bad EFIS.
>>
>> Russ Daves
>> N710RV - First Flight 7/28/06
>
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR |
MessageThe G1000 beechcraft have no vacuum driven instruments. You have a battery
backup attitude indicator and airspeed and altimeter.
----- Original Message -----
From: Bruce Gray
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 12:45 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR
Have any of you thought of the alternator frying and in the process burning out
the battery contactor and opps, no electro wizzies. Flip all the dead switches
you want, no joy. Is there a reason why every certified installation of an
EFIS in a GA airplane has a Vacuum Attitude Indicator, ASI, and Altimeter as
the backup?
Wait you say, I have a duel bus/battery power distribution system and that won't
happen. It's happened. The last one I read about was an Airbus loosing all,
and I mean ALL, power in the the cockpit. Total dark panel. The only thing left
was that little 2.5 inch backup Jet Attitude Gyro and a flashlight. (as an
asside, what's the reboot time for your EFIS systems if you have an electrical
hiccup? Can you fly without it for 3-4 minutes, IMC, in turblance?)
Or, you're flying along in solid IMC and the cockpit starts filling with smoke.
Smells like an electrical fire but no breakers have tripped. What do you do?
Kill the master switch? But you need the EFIS to keep the right side up. Keep
the electrical system operable and hope you can get on the ground before something
more serious happens?
Think these equipment decisions through with care, your life is dependant on
it.
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lloyd, Daniel R.
Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 12:01 PM
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: RV-List: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR
This is also how I have it setup in my plane, if there is a conflict between
the Chelton and the Dynon, Engage the sorcerer and turn off the offending equipment.
Dan
N289DT
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Russell Daves
Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 8:31 AM
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR
Nice panel. I have a stupid question, if you're flying along in solid
IMC
and all of a sudden one of your EFIS says you're turning right and the
other
says you're turning left, on which one do you bet your life?
Bruce
www.glasair.org
You immediately turn on your autopilot which is independent of the GRT EFIS
and after the autopilot levels the airplane you turn off the bad EFIS.
Russ Daves
N710RV - First Flight 7/28/06
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 27
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| Subject: | Glass for IFRGlass for IFR |
I think the right answer is any pilot is in for a few moments of stress at minimum.
I believe there was a study where there was an IMC system failure in a simulator.
The results were that nearly everyone lost control within minutes.
With system failure try to fly the airplane.
My brother, IFR current, in IMC in a Cessna 414 cycled the prop heat and everything
went blank. Total electrical failure. The plane stalled twice, bending
the airplane. He said he was able to gain control and find a clear area only
with the help of our Uncle Bobs ghost, a B-25 pilot. A certified aircraft redundant
systems. If you see a 414 with a tail out of wack and ripples in the
skin it could be the one.
Do not archive.
Bruce Gray <Bruce@glasair.org> wrote: Have any of you thought of the alternator
frying and in the process burning out the battery contactor and opps,
no electro wizzies. Flip all the dead switches you want, no joy. Is there a
reason why every certified installation of an EFIS in a GA airplane has a Vacuum
Attitude Indicator, ASI, and Altimeter as the backup?
Or, you're flying along in solid IMC and the cockpit starts filling with smoke.
Think these equipment decisions through with care, your life is dependant on
it.
Sherman Butler
RV-7a Wings
Idaho Falls
---------------------------------
Message 28
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Bruce, why is that scary? The autopilot is considered a primary instrument
during single-pilot IFR. This is also a procedure taught during IFR
training.
Bret Smith
RV-9A (91314)
Mineral Bluff, GA
www.FlightInnovations.com
_____
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Gray
Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 10:33 AM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR
Now that's scary!
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Russell Daves
Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 8:31 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR
Nice panel. I have a stupid question, if you're flying along in solid
IMC
and all of a sudden one of your EFIS says you're turning right and the
other
says you're turning left, on which one do you bet your life?
Bruce
www.glasair.org
You immediately turn on your autopilot which is independent of the GRT EFIS
and after the autopilot levels the airplane you turn off the bad EFIS.
Russ Daves
N710RV - First Flight 7/28/06
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/N
avigator?RV-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 29
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Back in my Aero Engineering school days we had to study a subject called
Human Factors Engineering or man/machine interfacing. Most pilots like
to
flip a switch/pull a knob and then monitor the results of that action,
in
real time, as the desired or commanded action takes place. Move the
stick
and watch the ADI change. This is called closed loop control, the pilot
is
in the control loop and can reverse or correct any undesired results.
With your autopilot controlled recovery and a dark EFIS, the pilot is
out of
the control loop. While the results might be successful, the time
waiting
for the end of the process, to me at least would be terrifying. With a
redundant ADI, ASI, and altimeter the pilot would at least be able to
monitor the aircrafts return to controlled flight. It's all a matter of
what
your comfortable with, I guess. Engaging the autopilot and hoping for
the
best just doesn't cut it with me.
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bret Smith
Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 9:01 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Glass for IFR
Bruce, why is that scary? The autopilot is considered a primary
instrument
during single-pilot IFR. This is also a procedure taught during IFR
training.
Bret Smith
RV-9A (91314)
Mineral Bluff, GA
www.FlightInnovations.com
_____
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Gray
Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 10:33 AM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR
Now that's scary!
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Russell Daves
Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 8:31 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR
Nice panel. I have a stupid question, if you're flying along in solid
IMC
and all of a sudden one of your EFIS says you're turning right and
the
other
says you're turning left, on which one do you bet your life?
Bruce
www.glasair.org
You immediately turn on your autopilot which is independent of the GRT
EFIS
and after the autopilot levels the airplane you turn off the bad EFIS.
Russ Daves
N710RV - First Flight 7/28/06
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.
com/N
avigator?RV-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.
com/N
avigator?RV-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 30
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>Engaging the autopilot and hoping for the best just doesn't cut it with
me.<
Whatever lightens your "worry bucket"... Like Sam said, my A/P is ALWAYS on
in solid IMC.
Bret Smith
RV-9A (91314)
Mineral Bluff, GA
www.FlightInnovations.com
_____
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Gray
Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 9:51 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Glass for IFR
Back in my Aero Engineering school days we had to study a subject called
Human Factors Engineering or man/machine interfacing. Most pilots like to
flip a switch/pull a knob and then monitor the results of that action, in
real time, as the desired or commanded action takes place. Move the stick
and watch the ADI change. This is called closed loop control, the pilot is
in the control loop and can reverse or correct any undesired results.
With your autopilot controlled recovery and a dark EFIS, the pilot is out of
the control loop. While the results might be successful, the time waiting
for the end of the process, to me at least would be terrifying. With a
redundant ADI, ASI, and altimeter the pilot would at least be able to
monitor the aircrafts return to controlled flight. It's all a matter of what
your comfortable with, I guess. Engaging the autopilot and hoping for the
best just doesn't cut it with me.
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bret Smith
Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 9:01 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Glass for IFR
Bruce, why is that scary? The autopilot is considered a primary instrument
during single-pilot IFR. This is also a procedure taught during IFR
training.
Bret Smith
RV-9A (91314)
Mineral Bluff, GA
www.FlightInnovations.com
_____
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Gray
Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 10:33 AM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR
Now that's scary!
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Russell Daves
Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 8:31 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR
Nice panel. I have a stupid question, if you're flying along in solid
IMC
and all of a sudden one of your EFIS says you're turning right and the
other
says you're turning left, on which one do you bet your life?
Bruce
www.glasair.org
You immediately turn on your autopilot which is independent of the GRT EFIS
and after the autopilot levels the airplane you turn off the bad EFIS.
Russ Daves
N710RV - First Flight 7/28/06
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/N
avigator?RV-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/N
avigator?RV-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/N
avigator?RV-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 31
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Surprisingly, so is mine.
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bret Smith
Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 10:30 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Glass for IFR
>Engaging the autopilot and hoping for the best just doesn't cut it with
me.<
Whatever lightens your "worry bucket"... Like Sam said, my A/P is ALWAYS
on
in solid IMC.
Bret Smith
RV-9A (91314)
Mineral Bluff, GA
www.FlightInnovations.com
_____
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Gray
Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 9:51 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Glass for IFR
Back in my Aero Engineering school days we had to study a subject called
Human Factors Engineering or man/machine interfacing. Most pilots like
to
flip a switch/pull a knob and then monitor the results of that action,
in
real time, as the desired or commanded action takes place. Move the
stick
and watch the ADI change. This is called closed loop control, the pilot
is
in the control loop and can reverse or correct any undesired results.
With your autopilot controlled recovery and a dark EFIS, the pilot is
out of
the control loop. While the results might be successful, the time
waiting
for the end of the process, to me at least would be terrifying. With a
redundant ADI, ASI, and altimeter the pilot would at least be able to
monitor the aircrafts return to controlled flight. It's all a matter of
what
your comfortable with, I guess. Engaging the autopilot and hoping for
the
best just doesn't cut it with me.
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bret Smith
Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 9:01 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Glass for IFR
Bruce, why is that scary? The autopilot is considered a primary
instrument
during single-pilot IFR. This is also a procedure taught during IFR
training.
Bret Smith
RV-9A (91314)
Mineral Bluff, GA
www.FlightInnovations.com
_____
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Gray
Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 10:33 AM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR
Now that's scary!
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Russell Daves
Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 8:31 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR
Nice panel. I have a stupid question, if you're flying along in solid
IMC
and all of a sudden one of your EFIS says you're turning right and
the
other
says you're turning left, on which one do you bet your life?
Bruce
www.glasair.org
You immediately turn on your autopilot which is independent of the GRT
EFIS
and after the autopilot levels the airplane you turn off the bad EFIS.
Russ Daves
N710RV - First Flight 7/28/06
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.
com/N
avigator?RV-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.
com/N
avigator?RV-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.
com/N
avigator?RV-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.
com/N
avigator?RV-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
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