---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 03/14/07: 10 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:43 AM - URL for this list? (Brian Meyette) 2. 07:13 AM - Re: URL for this list? (Sam Buchanan) 3. 07:28 AM - Re: URL for this list? (Larry Pardue) 4. 07:51 AM - Re: URL for this list? (Tim Bolton) 5. 09:13 AM - RV8 Rudder Cable (BRUCE GRAY) 6. 09:33 AM - Painting Questions and Advice (Snow, Daniel A.) 7. 10:34 AM - RV tools For Sale (wlpmap@insightbb.com) 8. 11:12 AM - Re: Painting Questions and Advice (John Mcmahon) 9. 12:22 PM - Re: Painting Questions and Advice (Steve Eberhart) 10. 04:30 PM - Re: Painting Questions and Advice (n801bh@netzero.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:43:42 AM PST US From: "Brian Meyette" Subject: RV-List: URL for this list? I think I read somewhere that this list is also available in an online format, similar to Yahoo Groups (as opposed to getting it in my email). But I don't see any link to it on the matronics site. Is there a URL for the online discussion group? Thanks, brian -- 4:51 PM ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:13:14 AM PST US From: Sam Buchanan Subject: Re: RV-List: URL for this list? Brian Meyette wrote: > > I think I read somewhere that this list is also available in an online > format, similar to Yahoo Groups (as opposed to getting it in my email). > But I don't see any link to it on the matronics site. Is there a URL for > the online discussion group? > Thanks, > brian Check the links at the bottom of this and all list messages. Sam Buchanan ==================== ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:28:51 AM PST US From: Larry Pardue Subject: Re: RV-List: URL for this list? Please scroll to the bottom of this message. do not archive Larry Pardue On Mar 14, 2007, at 8:42 AM, Brian Meyette wrote: > > > I think I read somewhere that this list is also available in an online > format, similar to Yahoo Groups (as opposed to getting it in my > email). > But I don't see any link to it on the matronics site. Is there a > URL for > the online discussion group? > Thanks, ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:51:59 AM PST US From: "Tim Bolton" Subject: Re: RV-List: URL for this list? http://forums.matronics.com/ http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List Tim Bolton Charlotte, NC www.TheRV7.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Meyette" Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 9:42 AM Subject: RV-List: URL for this list? I think I read somewhere that this list is also available in an online format, similar to Yahoo Groups (as opposed to getting it in my email). But I don't see any link to it on the matronics site. Is there a URL for the online discussion group? Thanks, brian -- 4:51 PM ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:13:37 AM PST US From: "BRUCE GRAY" Subject: RV-List: RV8 Rudder Cable Looking for 1 unused rudder cable(F-852A) for a RV8. Cable dimensions 161.375". Van's sells them in sets only. Will pay half of the going rate or whatever you feel its worth. New set from Van's is $77.45. I botched one up when it fell into my rotary file while opening a hole. Thanks, Bruce G. RV8 Fuse _________________________________________________________________ Mortgage rates as low as 4.625% - Refinance $150,000 loan for $579 a month. Intro*Terms https://www2.nextag.com/goto.jsp?product=100000035&url=%2fst.jsp&tm=y&search=mortgage_text_links_88_h27f6&disc=y&vers=743&s=4056&p=5117 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:33:57 AM PST US Subject: RV-List: Painting Questions and Advice From: "Snow, Daniel A." First, a confession and apology; I haven't read any of the books or watched any of the videos on painting, so my questions and observations may be obvious to those that have. I'm using PPG's Concept and a Devilbiss FinishLine HVLP conversion gun. >From the start orange peel has been a problem. I kept increasing the pressure, increasing paint volume, and slowing my sweeping motion. Although orange peel was decreasing, I was using an enormous amount of paint. When I got to the wings, I decided to switch back to a conventional gun, NAPA's gravity feed. Results were much better. After talking with a painter friend, I have a couple suspicions; 1) The fast (low temperature) reducer is too fast 2) The amount of reducer is too little 3) The air pressure at the cap is too low I've been following PPG's recommended temperature range and recipe', but the friend suggested using a slower (medium temperature) reducer and doubling the amount of reducer. He also suggested increasing the pressure, but I've already maxed out the pressure both at the compressor and at the gun's regulator. Question #1: For anyone that's used Concept paint, what is your opinion about using more reducer and a slower reducer? Question #2: Do you spray rivet lines first to help fill around the rivet head? Now to share some of my experiences: Two 20" box fans force air into the booth, with "sticky" filters on the inlet side of the fans. These filters are available individually at paint stores. I started with pleated air filters at the booth exit, but they have too much resistance to airflow. I'm switching to the fiber type. The personnel entrance should be close to the inlet fans so that it's not a primary means of escape for paint fog. After a couple paint sessions, paint dust collects on the paint booth walls and floor. Lightly rinse the walls with a water hose and lay new paper drop cloth on the floor. The water will also raise the humidity and cause the paint to cure a little more slowly, which aids in it "flowing out". Wear a Tyvek paint suit with hood to minimize lint/dust contamination from your clothes. Handling all the solvents will dry out your hands very quickly (I know, I should be using gloves, but it hassssssssssnnnnnnnn'ttttttt affected me yet, hasn't affected me yet, hasn't affected me yet), and you'll be using hand lotion. That hand lotion has a sneaky way of finding its way onto parts to be painted. I suggest washing your hands with soap before working with parts to be painted. A friend also found that RTV is persistent. Alumiprep has a tendency to collect on the bottom of treated parts and drying there. You have to rinse the bottom of parts frequently until they're ready to dry. Even after Alumiprep, parts should be cleaned with a cleaning wipe, dried with a clean cloth, and wiped with a tack cloth. HVLP may be better suited to professionals. Most big parts can be suspended from wires or sawhorses in a manner that allows you to paint with each side in a horizontal position. This reduces the chances of runs and sags. For example, I placed 3' sections of 4" PVC pipe through each end of the wings and rested the pipes on sawhorses. This allows the wings to rotate around pipes. Another piece of 2" PVC placed in one end helps secure the wing in a horizontal position. Paint one side, flip the wing over, paint the other side. I've ready the recommendation to practice painting on paper. I don't know if this would work, but the slippery side of "coated" making paper might make a better test piece since it won't absorb the paint. The first "tack" coat of paint should be shot from about 12", and applied quickly to provide about 50% coverage. Wait 10 minutes, shoot the rivet lines and edges lightly, then shoot the final coat at 6"-8" and a little more slowly and more heavily. Make sure to overlap up to 50%. Pinholes - I know a lot has been written already, but I thought I could be successful with less work. WRONG! Sand the parts until there are no shiny spots left. Using a Bondo-type squeegee, work SuperFil back and forth quickly, like using a paint brush, then scrape the squeegee backwards to remove excess. The pinholes will have blue SuperFil in them and will be easy to see. Let cure overnight, then lightly sand entire piece, making sure not to remove the blue SuperFil from the pinholes. Prime several filled parts with the same primer you're using for your painting. After the primer cures, look closely for pinholes. If any pinholes remain, fill with "glazing/spot putty" available from auto parts stores. This putty is like a thinned Bondo and works into the pinholes with the same squeegee. In 15 minutes it's ready to sand, clean, and reprime. This method sounds like a lot of work, but it's effective and doesn't take a lot of elbow grease. Striping - Chances are that your paint will go on a little thicker than the manufacturer recommends. Wait a little longer to use fine line tape for stripes, or you may get tape tracks that have to be buffed out. Ask the paint store for paint spec sheets, or locate and print them off the internet, for the specific primer and paint that you'll be using. Depending on the answers to my questions above, you may want to increase the amount of reducer, and go with a reducer that is for a temperature range higher than what you'll be working in. Three good reasons to go with white; Red paint can cost twice as much as white paint, dark colors show mistakes more easily, and dark colors absorb a lot of energy from the sun. My investment: Paint booth - $250 (plastic, drop cloths, sawhorses, fans, filters, door, and duct tape) Supplies - $100 (masking tape, coated masking paper, fine line tape, coveralls, wipes, tack cloths, etc.) Paint - $1400 (1 gallon corrosion resistant primer, 2-3 gallons paint, reducer, hardener, cleaner) I'll be happy to provide more detailed information if anyone has questions. Again, this may all be covered in the books that I haven't read, and if so, I apologize. Questions can be posted on this site or to my direct email address. Happy painting! Daniel Snow RV-9A, Painting ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:34:08 AM PST US From: wlpmap@insightbb.com Subject: RV-List: RV tools For Sale Due to two new mouths to feed, I am going to have to put my RV build on hold. I have for sale a RV tool kit from Avery's, with numerous upgrades, plus some shop tools. Please email for details. wlpmap@insightbb.com Thank you. Mark ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:12:54 AM PST US From: "John Mcmahon" Subject: Re: RV-List: Painting Questions and Advice I went to the PPG paint school a few years ago,and that paint and gun has flow rates and pressures for that exact paint and gun..Meaning that if you look at Devilbiss web site it will give you what tip and pressure AT THE GUN to use..Also your PPG dealer may have a tip pressure gauge to use for that gun that will nail the perfect pressure that you will need to do a great job..Just remember to use a large enough hose 3/8 because smaller will get you in trouble,don't ask me how because it hurts!!Always use the correct temp range reducer AT THAT TIME..Practice on something first like a old car hood etc first.... Good luck John McMahon (RV6 C/S ) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Snow, Daniel A." Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 11:33 AM Subject: RV-List: Painting Questions and Advice > > First, a confession and apology; I haven't read any of the books or > watched any of the videos on painting, so my questions and observations > may be obvious to those that have. > > I'm using PPG's Concept and a Devilbiss FinishLine HVLP conversion gun. >>From the start orange peel has been a problem. I kept increasing the > pressure, increasing paint volume, and slowing my sweeping motion. > Although orange peel was decreasing, I was using an enormous amount of > paint. When I got to the wings, I decided to switch back to a > conventional gun, NAPA's gravity feed. Results were much better. After > talking with a painter friend, I have a couple suspicions; > 1) The fast (low temperature) reducer is too fast > 2) The amount of reducer is too little > 3) The air pressure at the cap is too low > I've been following PPG's recommended temperature range and recipe', but > the friend suggested using a slower (medium temperature) reducer and > doubling the amount of reducer. He also suggested increasing the > pressure, but I've already maxed out the pressure both at the compressor > and at the gun's regulator. > > Question #1: For anyone that's used Concept paint, what is your opinion > about using more reducer and a slower reducer? > > Question #2: Do you spray rivet lines first to help fill around the > rivet head? > > > Now to share some of my experiences: > > Two 20" box fans force air into the booth, with "sticky" filters on the > inlet side of the fans. These filters are available individually at > paint stores. > > I started with pleated air filters at the booth exit, but they have too > much resistance to airflow. I'm switching to the fiber type. > > The personnel entrance should be close to the inlet fans so that it's > not a primary means of escape for paint fog. > > After a couple paint sessions, paint dust collects on the paint booth > walls and floor. Lightly rinse the walls with a water hose and lay new > paper drop cloth on the floor. The water will also raise the humidity > and cause the paint to cure a little more slowly, which aids in it > "flowing out". > > Wear a Tyvek paint suit with hood to minimize lint/dust contamination > from your clothes. > > Handling all the solvents will dry out your hands very quickly (I know, > I should be using gloves, but it hassssssssssnnnnnnnn'ttttttt affected > me yet, hasn't affected me yet, hasn't affected me yet), and you'll be > using hand lotion. That hand lotion has a sneaky way of finding its way > onto parts to be painted. I suggest washing your hands with soap before > working with parts to be painted. A friend also found that RTV is > persistent. > > Alumiprep has a tendency to collect on the bottom of treated parts and > drying there. You have to rinse the bottom of parts frequently until > they're ready to dry. > > Even after Alumiprep, parts should be cleaned with a cleaning wipe, > dried with a clean cloth, and wiped with a tack cloth. > > HVLP may be better suited to professionals. > > Most big parts can be suspended from wires or sawhorses in a manner that > allows you to paint with each side in a horizontal position. This > reduces the chances of runs and sags. For example, I placed 3' sections > of 4" PVC pipe through each end of the wings and rested the pipes on > sawhorses. This allows the wings to rotate around pipes. Another piece > of 2" PVC placed in one end helps secure the wing in a horizontal > position. Paint one side, flip the wing over, paint the other side. > > I've ready the recommendation to practice painting on paper. I don't > know if this would work, but the slippery side of "coated" making paper > might make a better test piece since it won't absorb the paint. > > The first "tack" coat of paint should be shot from about 12", and > applied quickly to provide about 50% coverage. Wait 10 minutes, shoot > the rivet lines and edges lightly, then shoot the final coat at 6"-8" > and a little more slowly and more heavily. Make sure to overlap up to > 50%. > > Pinholes - I know a lot has been written already, but I thought I could > be successful with less work. WRONG! Sand the parts until there are no > shiny spots left. Using a Bondo-type squeegee, work SuperFil back and > forth quickly, like using a paint brush, then scrape the squeegee > backwards to remove excess. The pinholes will have blue SuperFil in > them and will be easy to see. Let cure overnight, then lightly sand > entire piece, making sure not to remove the blue SuperFil from the > pinholes. Prime several filled parts with the same primer you're using > for your painting. After the primer cures, look closely for pinholes. > If any pinholes remain, fill with "glazing/spot putty" available from > auto parts stores. This putty is like a thinned Bondo and works into > the pinholes with the same squeegee. In 15 minutes it's ready to sand, > clean, and reprime. This method sounds like a lot of work, but it's > effective and doesn't take a lot of elbow grease. > > Striping - Chances are that your paint will go on a little thicker than > the manufacturer recommends. Wait a little longer to use fine line tape > for stripes, or you may get tape tracks that have to be buffed out. > > Ask the paint store for paint spec sheets, or locate and print them off > the internet, for the specific primer and paint that you'll be using. > Depending on the answers to my questions above, you may want to increase > the amount of reducer, and go with a reducer that is for a temperature > range higher than what you'll be working in. > > Three good reasons to go with white; Red paint can cost twice as much as > white paint, dark colors show mistakes more easily, and dark colors > absorb a lot of energy from the sun. > > > My investment: > Paint booth - $250 (plastic, drop cloths, sawhorses, fans, filters, > door, and duct tape) > Supplies - $100 (masking tape, coated masking paper, fine line tape, > coveralls, wipes, tack cloths, etc.) > Paint - $1400 (1 gallon corrosion resistant primer, 2-3 gallons paint, > reducer, hardener, cleaner) > > > I'll be happy to provide more detailed information if anyone has > questions. Again, this may all be covered in the books that I haven't > read, and if so, I apologize. Questions can be posted on this site or > to my direct email address. > > Happy painting! > > Daniel Snow > RV-9A, Painting > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:22:10 PM PST US From: Steve Eberhart Subject: Re: RV-List: Painting Questions and Advice Snow, Daniel A. wrote: > > First, a confession and apology; I haven't read any of the books or > watched any of the videos on painting, so my questions and observations > may be obvious to those that have. > > I'm using PPG's Concept and a Devilbiss FinishLine HVLP conversion gun. > >From the start orange peel has been a problem. I kept increasing the > pressure, increasing paint volume, and slowing my sweeping motion. > Although orange peel was decreasing, I was using an enormous amount of > paint. When I got to the wings, I decided to switch back to a > conventional gun, NAPA's gravity feed. Results were much better. After > talking with a painter friend, I have a couple suspicions; > 1) The fast (low temperature) reducer is too fast > 2) The amount of reducer is too little > 3) The air pressure at the cap is too low > I've been following PPG's recommended temperature range and recipe', but > the friend suggested using a slower (medium temperature) reducer and > doubling the amount of reducer. He also suggested increasing the > pressure, but I've already maxed out the pressure both at the compressor > and at the gun's regulator. > > Question #1: For anyone that's used Concept paint, what is your opinion > about using more reducer and a slower reducer? > > Question #2: Do you spray rivet lines first to help fill around the > rivet head? > > > Now to share some of my experiences: > > Two 20" box fans force air into the booth, with "sticky" filters on the > inlet side of the fans. These filters are available individually at > paint stores. > > I started with pleated air filters at the booth exit, but they have too > much resistance to airflow. I'm switching to the fiber type. > > The personnel entrance should be close to the inlet fans so that it's > not a primary means of escape for paint fog. > > After a couple paint sessions, paint dust collects on the paint booth > walls and floor. Lightly rinse the walls with a water hose and lay new > paper drop cloth on the floor. The water will also raise the humidity > and cause the paint to cure a little more slowly, which aids in it > "flowing out". > > Wear a Tyvek paint suit with hood to minimize lint/dust contamination > from your clothes. > > Handling all the solvents will dry out your hands very quickly (I know, > I should be using gloves, but it hassssssssssnnnnnnnn'ttttttt affected > me yet, hasn't affected me yet, hasn't affected me yet), and you'll be > using hand lotion. That hand lotion has a sneaky way of finding its way > onto parts to be painted. I suggest washing your hands with soap before > working with parts to be painted. A friend also found that RTV is > persistent. > > Alumiprep has a tendency to collect on the bottom of treated parts and > drying there. You have to rinse the bottom of parts frequently until > they're ready to dry. > > Even after Alumiprep, parts should be cleaned with a cleaning wipe, > dried with a clean cloth, and wiped with a tack cloth. > > HVLP may be better suited to professionals. > > Most big parts can be suspended from wires or sawhorses in a manner that > allows you to paint with each side in a horizontal position. This > reduces the chances of runs and sags. For example, I placed 3' sections > of 4" PVC pipe through each end of the wings and rested the pipes on > sawhorses. This allows the wings to rotate around pipes. Another piece > of 2" PVC placed in one end helps secure the wing in a horizontal > position. Paint one side, flip the wing over, paint the other side. > > I've ready the recommendation to practice painting on paper. I don't > know if this would work, but the slippery side of "coated" making paper > might make a better test piece since it won't absorb the paint. > > The first "tack" coat of paint should be shot from about 12", and > applied quickly to provide about 50% coverage. Wait 10 minutes, shoot > the rivet lines and edges lightly, then shoot the final coat at 6"-8" > and a little more slowly and more heavily. Make sure to overlap up to > 50%. > > Pinholes - I know a lot has been written already, but I thought I could > be successful with less work. WRONG! Sand the parts until there are no > shiny spots left. Using a Bondo-type squeegee, work SuperFil back and > forth quickly, like using a paint brush, then scrape the squeegee > backwards to remove excess. The pinholes will have blue SuperFil in > them and will be easy to see. Let cure overnight, then lightly sand > entire piece, making sure not to remove the blue SuperFil from the > pinholes. Prime several filled parts with the same primer you're using > for your painting. After the primer cures, look closely for pinholes. > If any pinholes remain, fill with "glazing/spot putty" available from > auto parts stores. This putty is like a thinned Bondo and works into > the pinholes with the same squeegee. In 15 minutes it's ready to sand, > clean, and reprime. This method sounds like a lot of work, but it's > effective and doesn't take a lot of elbow grease. > > Striping - Chances are that your paint will go on a little thicker than > the manufacturer recommends. Wait a little longer to use fine line tape > for stripes, or you may get tape tracks that have to be buffed out. > > Ask the paint store for paint spec sheets, or locate and print them off > the internet, for the specific primer and paint that you'll be using. > Depending on the answers to my questions above, you may want to increase > the amount of reducer, and go with a reducer that is for a temperature > range higher than what you'll be working in. > > Three good reasons to go with white; Red paint can cost twice as much as > white paint, dark colors show mistakes more easily, and dark colors > absorb a lot of energy from the sun. > > > My investment: > Paint booth - $250 (plastic, drop cloths, sawhorses, fans, filters, > door, and duct tape) > Supplies - $100 (masking tape, coated masking paper, fine line tape, > coveralls, wipes, tack cloths, etc.) > Paint - $1400 (1 gallon corrosion resistant primer, 2-3 gallons paint, > reducer, hardener, cleaner) > > > I'll be happy to provide more detailed information if anyone has > questions. Again, this may all be covered in the books that I haven't > read, and if so, I apologize. Questions can be posted on this site or > to my direct email address. > > Happy painting! > > Daniel Snow > I painted an RV-8 with the same paint and gun that you are using. With just a couple of changes in your procedures you will love the Concept/DeVilbiss FinishLine gun combination as much as I do. First you want to get a 1.3mm tip. My gun came with 1.5, 1.8 and 2.2mm tips. Don't screw around with this, get the 1.3mm tip. the next thing is you want to run with a little higher pressure at the gun. Mine usually runs around 38+ psi at the gun. Make sure you have a centrifugal filter at the gun. Now the secret to using Concept is how you thin it. I have had great success thinning it just like lacquer. This is a sight/feel thing not a measure thing. First measure your paint and thinner using your ratio paint cup. Add your paint and the amount of thinner recommended on the can. This is just the starting point. You are going to add probably about 20% to 30% more thinner. BUT, you are not going to measure it you are going to add small amounts of thiner and watch how the paint flows off of the end of the mixing stick. Mixed to the ratio printed on the can you will see the paint flow off of the stick in an unbroken stream. We want to keep adding thinner until the paint transitions into dropping in droplets rather than a smooth flow. If you are going to err, err on the side of more thinner rather than less. You are going to have to develop the technique of handling the gun during the spraying process. If you mix the paint like I described above and you are using the reducer recommended by the paint store for your local conditions you can easily get beautiful results. It sure sounds like you are getting way too much paint. I also really like the plastic baggies in the paint cup. This frees you up so you can spray with the gun upside down and not worry about paint dripping. I am sure you will get as many suggestions as there are painters. This is just what has worked for me. Steve Eberhart RV-7A, O-360-A1A, Catto 3 blade, working on finish kit ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 04:30:16 PM PST US From: "n801bh@netzero.com" Subject: Re: RV-List: Painting Questions and Advice I am not a professional painter and I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Expre ss last night either. I have painted my street rods, boats and god o nly knows what other stuff I have spiffed up in the past. Your approach is sound and well thought out. Painting is like flying, driving a race c ar or any other highly demanding activity. There is not substitute for " seat time".. As alot of us that have painted our kit planes know by now, there is a VERY fine line between getting a slick finish with very li ttle orange peel and creating that dreaded ,,, RUN .. I am curious thoug h, with the product your are spraying,, How long do you wait for the pai nt to cure till you tape off for stripes??? Thanks in advance.. Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com -- "Snow, Daniel A." wrote: > First, a confession and apology; I haven't read any of the books or watched any of the videos on painting, so my questions and observations may be obvious to those that have. I'm using PPG's Concept and a Devilbiss FinishLine HVLP conversion gun. >From the start orange peel has been a problem. I kept increasing the pressure, increasing paint volume, and slowing my sweeping motion. Although orange peel was decreasing, I was using an enormous amount of paint. When I got to the wings, I decided to switch back to a conventional gun, NAPA's gravity feed. Results were much better. After talking with a painter friend, I have a couple suspicions; 1) The fast (low temperature) reducer is too fast 2) The amount of reducer is too little 3) The air pressure at the cap is too low I've been following PPG's recommended temperature range and recipe', but the friend suggested using a slower (medium temperature) reducer and doubling the amount of reducer. He also suggested increasing the pressure, but I've already maxed out the pressure both at the compressor and at the gun's regulator. Question #1: For anyone that's used Concept paint, what is your opinion about using more reducer and a slower reducer? Question #2: Do you spray rivet lines first to help fill around the rivet head? Now to share some of my experiences: Two 20" box fans force air into the booth, with "sticky" filters on the inlet side of the fans. These filters are available individually at paint stores. I started with pleated air filters at the booth exit, but they have too much resistance to airflow. I'm switching to the fiber type. The personnel entrance should be close to the inlet fans so that it's not a primary means of escape for paint fog. After a couple paint sessions, paint dust collects on the paint booth walls and floor. Lightly rinse the walls with a water hose and lay new paper drop cloth on the floor. The water will also raise the humidity and cause the paint to cure a little more slowly, which aids in it "flowing out". Wear a Tyvek paint suit with hood to minimize lint/dust contamination from your clothes. Handling all the solvents will dry out your hands very quickly (I know, I should be using gloves, but it hassssssssssnnnnnnnn'ttttttt affected me yet, hasn't affected me yet, hasn't affected me yet), and you'll be using hand lotion. That hand lotion has a sneaky way of finding its way onto parts to be painted. I suggest washing your hands with soap before working with parts to be painted. A friend also found that RTV is persistent. Alumiprep has a tendency to collect on the bottom of treated parts and drying there. You have to rinse the bottom of parts frequently until they're ready to dry. Even after Alumiprep, parts should be cleaned with a cleaning wipe, dried with a clean cloth, and wiped with a tack cloth. HVLP may be better suited to professionals. Most big parts can be suspended from wires or sawhorses in a manner that allows you to paint with each side in a horizontal position. This reduces the chances of runs and sags. For example, I placed 3' sections of 4" PVC pipe through each end of the wings and rested the pipes on sawhorses. This allows the wings to rotate around pipes. Another piece of 2" PVC placed in one end helps secure the wing in a horizontal position. Paint one side, flip the wing over, paint the other side. I've ready the recommendation to practice painting on paper. I don't know if this would work, but the slippery side of "coated" making paper might make a better test piece since it won't absorb the paint. The first "tack" coat of paint should be shot from about 12", and applied quickly to provide about 50% coverage. Wait 10 minutes, shoot the rivet lines and edges lightly, then shoot the final coat at 6"-8" and a little more slowly and more heavily. Make sure to overlap up to 50%. Pinholes - I know a lot has been written already, but I thought I could be successful with less work. WRONG! Sand the parts until there are no shiny spots left. Using a Bondo-type squeegee, work SuperFil back and forth quickly, like using a paint brush, then scrape the squeegee backwards to remove excess. The pinholes will have blue SuperFil in them and will be easy to see. Let cure overnight, then lightly sand entire piece, making sure not to remove the blue SuperFil from the pinholes. Prime several filled parts with the same primer you're using for your painting. After the primer cures, look closely for pinholes. If any pinholes remain, fill with "glazing/spot putty" available from auto parts stores. This putty is like a thinned Bondo and works into the pinholes with the same squeegee. In 15 minutes it's ready to sand, clean, and reprime. This method sounds like a lot of work, but it's effective and doesn't take a lot of elbow grease. Striping - Chances are that your paint will go on a little thicker than the manufacturer recommends. Wait a little longer to use fine line tape for stripes, or you may get tape tracks that have to be buffed out. Ask the paint store for paint spec sheets, or locate and print them off the internet, for the specific primer and paint that you'll be using. Depending on the answers to my questions above, you may want to increase the amount of reducer, and go with a reducer that is for a temperature range higher than what you'll be working in. Three good reasons to go with white; Red paint can cost twice as much as white paint, dark colors show mistakes more easily, and dark colors absorb a lot of energy from the sun. My investment: Paint booth - $250 (plastic, drop cloths, sawhorses, fans, filters, door, and duct tape) Supplies - $100 (masking tape, coated masking paper, fine line tape, coveralls, wipes, tack cloths, etc.) Paint - $1400 (1 gallon corrosion resistant primer, 2-3 gallons paint, reducer, hardener, cleaner) I'll be happy to provide more detailed information if anyone has questions. Again, this may all be covered in the books that I haven't read, and if so, I apologize. Questions can be posted on this site or to my direct email address. Happy painting! Daniel Snow RV-9A, Painting ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== ===========

I am not a professional painter and I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night either. <G> I have painted my street rods, boats and god only knows what other stuff I have spiffed up in the past. Your approach is sound and well thought out. Painting is like flying, d riving a race car or any other highly demanding activity. There is not s ubstitute for "seat time".. As alot of us that have painted our kit plan es know by now, there is a  VERY fine line between getting a slick finish  with very little orange peel and creating that dreaded ,,, RUN .. I am curious though, with the product your are spraying,, Ho w long do you wait for the paint to cure till you tape off for stri pes??? 

Thanks in advance..


Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspow erair.com

-- "Snow, Daniel A." <Daniel.Sno w@wancdf.com> wrote:
--> RV-List message po sted by: "Snow, Daniel A." <Daniel.Snow@wanc df.com>

First, a confession and apology;&n bsp; I haven't read any of the books& nbsp;or
watched any of the videos on pa inting, so my questions and observations
may  be obvious to those that have.

I'm  using PPG's Concept and a Devilbiss  FinishLine HVLP conversion gun.
>From the  ;start orange peel has been a problem.&nbs p; I kept increasing the
pressure, increasin g paint volume, and slowing my sweeping&nb sp;motion.
Although orange peel was decreasing,&n bsp;I was using an enormous amount of
p aint.  When I got to the wings,  I decided to switch back to a
conventio nal gun, NAPA's gravity feed.  Results&nbs p;were much better.  After
talking with  ;a painter friend, I have a couple su spicions;
1)  The fast (low temperature)&nbs p;reducer is too fast
2)  The amount&nb sp;of reducer is too little
3)  The&nbs p;air pressure at the cap is too low< BR>I've been following PPG's recommended temper ature range and recipe', but
the friend  ;suggested using a slower (medium temperature)& nbsp;reducer and
doubling the amount of redu cer.  He also suggested increasing the
pressure, but I've already maxed out the&n bsp;pressure both at the compressor
and at&n bsp;the gun's regulator.

Question #1:  F or anyone that's used Concept paint, what& nbsp;is your opinion
about using more reduce r and a slower reducer?

Question #2:&nbs p; Do you spray rivet lines first to& nbsp;help fill around the
rivet head?


Now to share some of my experiences:
Two 20" box fans force air into the  booth, with "sticky" filters on the
in let side of the fans.  These filters& nbsp;are available individually at
paint stores.< BR>
I started with pleated air filters  at the booth exit, but they have too< BR>much resistance to airflow.  I'm switch ing to the fiber type.

The personnel&nbs p;entrance should be close to the inlet&nb sp;fans so that it's
not a primary mean s of escape for paint fog.

After a& nbsp;couple paint sessions, paint dust collects  on the paint booth
walls and floor.&nb sp; Lightly rinse the walls with a wa ter hose and lay new
paper drop cloth&n bsp;on the floor.  The water will als o raise the humidity
and cause the pain t to cure a little more slowly, which  aids in it
"flowing out".

Wear a&nbs p;Tyvek paint suit with hood to minimize&n bsp;lint/dust contamination
from your clothes.

Handling all the solvents will dry out&nbs p;your hands very quickly (I know,
I sh ould be using gloves, but it hassssssssssn nnnnnnn'ttttttt affected
me yet, hasn't affected& nbsp;me yet, hasn't affected me yet), and& nbsp;you'll be
using hand lotion.  That  ;hand lotion has a sneaky way of find ing its way
onto parts to be painted.&n bsp; I suggest washing your hands with&nbs p;soap before
working with parts to be  painted.  A friend also found that RT V is
persistent.

Alumiprep has a tendency& nbsp;to collect on the bottom of treated&n bsp;parts and
drying there.  You have t o rinse the bottom of parts frequently&nbs p;until
they're ready to dry.

Even after&n bsp;Alumiprep, parts should be cleaned with&nbs p;a cleaning wipe,
dried with a clean c loth, and wiped with a tack cloth.

HVLP may be better suited to professionals .

Most big parts can be suspended f rom wires or sawhorses in a manner th at
allows you to paint with each side&n bsp;in a horizontal position.  This
reduces& nbsp;the chances of runs and sags.  F or example, I placed 3' sections
of 4"& nbsp;PVC pipe through each end of the  ;wings and rested the pipes on
sawhorses.&nb sp; This allows the wings to rotate a round pipes.  Another piece
of 2" PVC&n bsp;placed in one end helps secure the&nbs p;wing in a horizontal
position.  Paint  ;one side, flip the wing over, paint  the other side.

I've ready the recommend ation to practice painting on paper.   ;I don't
know if this would work, but&n bsp;the slippery side of "coated" making p aper
might make a better test piece sin ce it won't absorb the paint.

The f irst "tack" coat of paint should be s hot from about 12", and
applied quickly  ;to provide about 50% coverage.  Wait  ;10 minutes, shoot
the rivet lines and  edges lightly, then shoot the final coat&n bsp;at 6"-8"
and a little more slowly a nd more heavily.  Make sure to overla p up to
50%.

Pinholes - I know a  lot has been written already, but I& nbsp;thought I could
be successful with less  work.  WRONG!  Sand the parts u ntil there are no
shiny spots left. &nb sp;Using a Bondo-type squeegee, work SuperFil&n bsp;back and
forth quickly, like using a&nbs p;paint brush, then scrape the squeegee
back wards to remove excess.  The pinholes  ;will have blue SuperFil in
them and wi ll be easy to see.  Let cure ove rnight, then lightly sand
entire piece, maki ng sure not to remove the blue SuperF il from the
pinholes.  Prime several fi lled parts with the same primer you're&nbs p;using
for your painting.  After the p rimer cures, look closely for pinholes.
If&n bsp;any pinholes remain, fill with "glazing/spo t putty" available from
auto parts stores.&n bsp; This putty is like a thinned Bon do and works into
the pinholes with the  same squeegee.  In 15 minutes it's&n bsp;ready to sand,
clean, and reprime.   ;This method sounds like a lot of wor k, but it's
effective and doesn't take  a lot of elbow grease.

Striping - C hances are that your paint will go on  a little thicker than
the manufacturer  ;recommends.  Wait a little longer to  ;use fine line tape
for stripes, or you  may get tape tracks that have to&nbs p;be buffed out.

Ask the paint store&nbs p;for paint spec sheets, or locate and&nbs p;print them off
the internet, for the  specific primer and paint that you'll be&n bsp;using.
Depending on the answers to my&nb sp;questions above, you may want to increa se
the amount of reducer, and go with&n bsp;a reducer that is for a temperature
range higher than what you'll be working& nbsp;in.

Three good reasons to go with&n bsp;white; Red paint can cost twice as&nbs p;much as
white paint, dark colors show  ;mistakes more easily, and dark colors
absor b a lot of energy from the sun.

My investment:
Paint booth - $250 (pla stic, drop cloths, sawhorses, fans, filters,
door, and duct tape)
Supplies - $100 ( masking tape, coated masking paper, fine l ine tape,
coveralls, wipes, tack cloths, etc .)
Paint - $1400 (1 gallon corrosion re sistant primer, 2-3 gallons paint,
reducer,  hardener, cleaner)


I'll be happy to  provide more detailed information if anyone&nbs p;has
questions.  Again, this may all b e covered in the books that I haven't
read, and if so, I apologize.  Qu estions can be posted on this site or
to my direct email address.

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