---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 03/24/07: 20 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:57 AM - Re: 9A VS parts list (T.C. Chang) 2. 07:30 AM - Vne dependent on TAS? (Ken Arnold) 3. 07:38 AM - Re: Aircraft Painting 101 Video (renewhall2) 4. 08:07 AM - Re: Vne dependent on TAS? (David Leonard) 5. 08:36 AM - Re: Vne dependent on TAS? (RAS) 6. 08:40 AM - Re: Vne dependent on TAS? (Tedd McHenry) 7. 09:00 AM - Re: () 8. 09:34 AM - Rebuilding Gyros (Emrath) 9. 11:25 AM - Re: Vne dependent on TAS? (ronlee@pcisys.net) 10. 12:00 PM - Re: Vne dependent on TAS? (Robin Marks) 11. 12:04 PM - Re: Vne dependent on TAS? (Robin Marks) 12. 12:34 PM - Re: RV10-List: Kitlog Pro (Matt Dralle) 13. 01:27 PM - Re: Vne dependent on TAS? (Ken Arnold) 14. 03:26 PM - RV-4 for Sale (Paul Besing) 15. 04:18 PM - Re: Re: RV10-List: Kitlog Pro (Darrell Reiley) 16. 04:54 PM - Re: Re: RV10-List: Kitlog Pro (Matt Dralle) 17. 04:56 PM - Re: Re: RV10-List: Kitlog Pro (Bob Leffler) 18. 05:46 PM - Re: Vne dependent on TAS? (linn Walters) 19. 08:04 PM - POH (Dan Ross) 20. 08:37 PM - Re: POH (williamc@RV9Builder.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:57:07 AM PST US From: "T.C. Chang" Subject: RE: RV-List: 9A VS parts list Paul, Section 4 of your construction manual is a complete parts index. Parts for VS begins with VS and is on "PLAN PG #6". Unfortunately, several VS parts are listed at end of the list with unknown PLAN PG #. Here are what I found: VS-410PP-PC x 2 VS-411PP-PC x 2 VS-412PP-PC x 2 VS-803PP x 1 VS-808PP x 1 VS-901 x 1 VS-909 x 1 VS-702 x 1 VS-704 x 1 VS-705 x 1 VS-706 x 1 VS-707 x 1 Double check the above list against DWG 6 and see whether anything is missing. There are various rivets used and they are not listed on the parts list. Ted ------------------------------------------ T.C. Chang http://tc1234c.googlepages.com/ tc1234c@roadrunner.com RV-9A, Lycoming (ECI) O320-D2A, 160 hp, Carb, Dual Mag, Sensenich FP all electric, GRT dual DU H1, TT DigiFlight II VSGV, 125 Hobbs 3/8/2007 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Folbrecht Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2007 12:24 AM Subject: RV-List: 9A VS parts list --> My tech counselor recommended I rebuild my VS. (Biggest problem was I bucked rivets on the spar because I didn't have a squeezer that could do 1/8" rivets.) Anyway, I called Van's to order the parts and basically they have no concept of a "vertical stab" subkit - you need to have the full parts list. Does anybody happen to have this handy for a 9A?? do not archive ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:30:50 AM PST US From: "Ken Arnold" Subject: RV-List: Vne dependent on TAS? Listers, A recent article in Kitplane magazine describes the criticality of knowing TAS at relative high msl. For example, if one is flying at 8K to 10K, the indicated airspeed is significantly less than TAS. Therefore, an IAS of 90 could have TAS near Vne. I would be interested in offline comments from anyone experiencing "flutter" or some other situation at these altitudes and how you deal with the situations. Many thanks, Ken Arnold ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:38:13 AM PST US Subject: RV-List: Re: Aircraft Painting 101 Video From: "renewhall2" Jerry, Those are the standard Van's wingtips that came in my wing kit in 2002. I'm not sure when Van's changed them but I noticed that on some -7's recently. Bob -------- Bob Newhall N829RV RV Transition Training Boulder, CO renewhall2.googlepages.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=102628#102628 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:07:18 AM PST US From: "David Leonard" Subject: Re: RV-List: Vne dependent on TAS? Ken, If you search the archives you will see that this issue is beaten deader than dead (no exceeding Vne pun intended). David Leonard do not archive Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY My websites at: http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/rotaryroster/index.html http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/vp4skydoc/index.html http://leonardiniraq.blogspot.com On 3/24/07, Ken Arnold wrote: > > Listers, > > A recent article in Kitplane magazine describes the criticality of knowing > TAS at relative high msl. For example, if one is flying at 8K to 10K, the > indicated airspeed is significantly less than TAS. Therefore, an IAS of 90 > could have TAS near Vne. > > I would be interested in offline comments from anyone experiencing > "flutter" or some other situation at these altitudes and how you deal with > the situations. > > Many thanks, > Ken Arnold > > * > * > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:36:43 AM PST US From: "RAS" Subject: Re: RV-List: Vne dependent on TAS? Ken, This is the very reason Van's doesn't support the use of engines higher than advertised and normally aspirated. A normaly aspirated Lycoming will usually reach full throttle height around 7500 feet AMSL/standard atmosphere. RV's can usually go a bit higher due to the RAM effect of the intake air if the cowling and baffling of intake has been carefully constructed, sometimnes as much as 1"MP can be gained. Save for a very light RV, little fuel, no lugagge, 1POB, I don't think it's an issue really. However should you have the urge to up the HP even a bit or use a TURBO where you can maintain your MP above the 7500 then you will quickly come very close to the VNE, in a similar way as you can quickly achieve VNE at low levels by high powersetting and just pushing the nose down. I recall it could be achieved within a 1000feet drop with only 1800RPM set during the testfase of my RV7.(180HP, FP, 1029LBS empty). ----- Original Message ----- From: Ken Arnold To: RV-List@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2007 2:27 PM Subject: RV-List: Vne dependent on TAS? Listers, A recent article in Kitplane magazine describes the criticality of knowing TAS at relative high msl. For example, if one is flying at 8K to 10K, the indicated airspeed is significantly less than TAS. Therefore, an IAS of 90 could have TAS near Vne. I would be interested in offline comments from anyone experiencing "flutter" or some other situation at these altitudes and how you deal with the situations. Many thanks, Ken Arnold ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:40:22 AM PST US From: Tedd McHenry Subject: Re: RV-List: Vne dependent on TAS? Ken: There's was a discussion of the relationship between TAS and flutter on the RV List a year or so ago. You should find lots about it in the archives. The RV List discussion was inspired by an article in the RVator called "Flying High and Fast" (6th issue of 2004), in which Ken Krueger talks about the risk of encountering flutter at high altitude, due to TAS being much higher than IAS. (I'm not attempting to re-open the debate here, only to point Ken toward what he's looking for.) Tedd McHenry Surrey, BC, Canada DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:00:23 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: RV-List: -Mark, I am building an RV-6A with H-4 Eggie and David Domeier has a flying RV-7A. For more info, contact offline. Ron Burnett--- marknlisa@hometel.com wrote: > > Listers, > > Are there any Subaru-powered RVs in the Saint Louis area? > > Mark Sletten > > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:34:36 AM PST US From: "Emrath" Subject: RV-List: Rebuilding Gyros Is there anyone on the "list" that has rebuilt a gyro themselves? I have a ADI of B.F.Goodrich origin that I would like to rebuild. Corollary question, who would be a good source to have the gyro overall, less yellow tag as this is for an experimental? Marty RV-6A finishing. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:25:50 AM PST US From: ronlee@pcisys.net Subject: Re: RV-List: Vne dependent on TAS? Go to the Vans Aircatft website and select RV 9/9A and then "Performance". There is an article about Why can't I use a bigger engine" that has some good info. Ron Lee --------------------------------------------- This message was sent using Endymion MailMan. http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/ ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 12:00:12 PM PST US Subject: RE: RV-List: Vne dependent on TAS? From: "Robin Marks" Does anyone know if this article is available online? Robin RV-4 Sold RV-6A 350 Hours RV-10 parts, parts, parts -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tedd McHenry Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2007 8:38 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Vne dependent on TAS? Ken: There's was a discussion of the relationship between TAS and flutter on the RV List a year or so ago. You should find lots about it in the archives. The RV List discussion was inspired by an article in the RVator called "Flying High and Fast" (6th issue of 2004), in which Ken Krueger talks about the risk of encountering flutter at high altitude, due to TAS being much higher than IAS. (I'm not attempting to re-open the debate here, only to point Ken toward what he's looking for.) Tedd McHenry Surrey, BC, Canada DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 12:04:20 PM PST US Subject: RE: RV-List: Vne dependent on TAS? From: "Robin Marks" Found it! http://www.vansaircraft.com/pdf/hp_limts.pdf as a discussion of the relationship between TAS and flutter on the RV List a year or so ago. You should find lots about it in the archives. The RV List discussion was inspired by an article in the RVator called "Flying High and Fast" (6th issue of 2004), in which Ken Krueger talks about the risk of encountering flutter at high altitude, due to TAS being much higher than IAS. Robin RV-10 still in pieces... ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 12:34:36 PM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: RV-List: RE: RV10-List: Kitlog Pro At 05:29 AM 3/22/2007 Thursday, RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote: >Matt bought KitLog?!? Wow, thats cool! Maybe he will fix the problem where clicking next on a project web page takes you backward in dates instead of forward. That has always drove me nuts along with the run on paragraphs. Spell check would be great too. I also mentioned to Paul way back when I was beta testing his 2.0 release that adding the ability to attach files to entries like scanned receipts to expenses would be useful. > >Michael Sausen Michael/Kitlog Users, I think you will be pleased. I've updated the "Next/Previous" functionality on the individual log entry pages so that the function is now more intuitive. Give it a try and let me know what you think... http://www.mykitlog.com/users/display_log.php?user=msausen&project=22&category=0&log=16675&row=5 How's that for customer service? Tell a friend! Best regards, Matt Dralle Matronics / Kitlog Pro Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 01:27:28 PM PST US From: "Ken Arnold" Subject: Re: RV-List: Vne dependent on TAS? Listers, Many thanks for all the good comments re: TAS effect on Vne. The Ken Kruger article is very good and very clear. ie be very careful when calculating your closeness to Vne at higher altitudes. My engine is Rotax 912 ULS. I have determined the rule of thumb is multiply thousands by 1.5 which gives a percentage number to find IAS to compare with TAS. For example, at 8K msl, multiply 8 x 1.5 = 12% reduction. If Vne at sealevel was 110 mph then 110 x 0.88 = 96.8 mph IAS. This is important news. Other docs have sort of ignored the situation by discussing how much more efficient it is to fly a little higher. Further, I think a placard pasted to the panel at some sample altitudes would be handy. Again, many thanks, Ken Arnold ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin Marks" Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2007 3:01 PM Subject: RE: RV-List: Vne dependent on TAS? > > Found it! > > http://www.vansaircraft.com/pdf/hp_limts.pdf > > as a discussion of the relationship between TAS and flutter on the RV > List a year or so ago. You should find lots about it in the archives. > The RV List discussion was inspired by an article in the RVator called > "Flying High and Fast" (6th issue of 2004), in which Ken Krueger talks > about the risk of encountering flutter at high altitude, due to TAS > being much higher than IAS. > > Robin > RV-10 still in pieces... > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 03:26:46 PM PST US From: Paul Besing Subject: RV-List: RV-4 for Sale 1989 RV-4 for sale IO-360 fixed pitch 10:1 Pistons Ported/Polished New IFR panel Klaus Savier racing prop Hangared in Arizona One of the fastest RV-4's around. 170 KTAS all day long! Military deployment forces sale. Pictures at www.mykitlog.com/pbesing $65,000 Paul Besing do not archive --------------------------------- Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection. Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta. ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 04:18:20 PM PST US From: Darrell Reiley Subject: Re: RV-List: RE: RV10-List: Kitlog Pro Matt, Would this be something requiring an update? I've clicked on the check for updates and the reply is no updates available. Thanks, Darrell --- Matt Dralle wrote: > > > At 05:29 AM 3/22/2007 Thursday, RV Builder (Michael > Sausen) wrote: > >Matt bought KitLog?!? Wow, thats cool! Maybe he > will fix the problem where clicking next on a > project web page takes you backward in dates instead > of forward. That has always drove me nuts along > with the run on paragraphs. Spell check would be > great too. I also mentioned to Paul way back when I > was beta testing his 2.0 release that adding the > ability to attach files to entries like scanned > receipts to expenses would be useful. > > > >Michael Sausen > > Michael/Kitlog Users, > > I think you will be pleased. I've updated the > "Next/Previous" functionality on the individual log > entry pages so that the function is now more > intuitive. Give it a try and let me know what you > think... > > http://www.mykitlog.com/users/display_log.php?user=msausen&project=22&category=0&log=16675&row=5 > > How's that for customer service? Tell a friend! > > Best regards, > Matt Dralle > Matronics / Kitlog Pro > > > > Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | > CA | 94551 > 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | > dralle@matronics.com Email > http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products > For Aircraft > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > > Web Forums! > > > > > Don't get soaked. Take a quick peek at the forecast with the Yahoo! Search weather shortcut. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#loc_weather ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 04:54:35 PM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Re: RV-List: RE: RV10-List: Kitlog Pro Darrell, No, all of these changes were made on the MyKitlog.com webserver side; no update to your Windows Application is required to take advantage of them. Matt Dralle At 04:15 PM 3/24/2007 Saturday, you wrote: > >Matt, > >Would this be something requiring an update? I've >clicked on the check for updates and the reply is no >updates available. > >Thanks, > >Darrell > >--- Matt Dralle wrote: > >> >> >> At 05:29 AM 3/22/2007 Thursday, RV Builder (Michael >> Sausen) wrote: >> >Matt bought KitLog?!? Wow, thats cool! Maybe he >> will fix the problem where clicking next on a >> project web page takes you backward in dates instead >> of forward. That has always drove me nuts along >> with the run on paragraphs. Spell check would be >> great too. I also mentioned to Paul way back when I >> was beta testing his 2.0 release that adding the >> ability to attach files to entries like scanned >> receipts to expenses would be useful. >> > >> >Michael Sausen >> >> Michael/Kitlog Users, >> >> I think you will be pleased. I've updated the >> "Next/Previous" functionality on the individual log >> entry pages so that the function is now more >> intuitive. Give it a try and let me know what you >> think... >> >> >http://www.mykitlog.com/users/display_log.php?user=msausen&project=22&category=0&log=16675&row=5 >> >> How's that for customer service? Tell a friend! >> >> Best regards, >> Matt Dralle >> Matronics / Kitlog Pro >> >> >> >> Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | >> CA | 94551 >> 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | >> dralle@matronics.com Email >> http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products >> For Aircraft >> >> >> >> browse >> Subscriptions page, >> FAQ, >> >> Web Forums! >> >> >> >> >> > > > >Don't get soaked. Take a quick peek at the forecast >with the Yahoo! Search weather shortcut. >http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#loc_weather > Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 04:56:43 PM PST US From: "Bob Leffler" Subject: RE: RV-List: RE: RV10-List: Kitlog Pro All of Matt's recent changes effect how the web pages are displayed and didn't require any changes to the PC application. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Reiley Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2007 7:15 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: RE: RV10-List: Kitlog Pro Matt, Would this be something requiring an update? I've clicked on the check for updates and the reply is no updates available. Thanks, Darrell --- Matt Dralle wrote: > > > At 05:29 AM 3/22/2007 Thursday, RV Builder (Michael > Sausen) wrote: > >Matt bought KitLog?!? Wow, that's cool! Maybe he > will fix the problem where clicking next on a > project web page takes you backward in dates instead > of forward. That' has always drove me nuts along > with the run on paragraphs. Spell check would be > great too. I also mentioned to Paul way back when I > was beta testing his 2.0 release that adding the > ability to attach files to entries like scanned > receipts to expenses would be useful. > > > >Michael Sausen > > Michael/Kitlog Users, > > I think you will be pleased. I've updated the > "Next/Previous" functionality on the individual log > entry pages so that the function is now more > intuitive. Give it a try and let me know what you > think... > > http://www.mykitlog.com/users/display_log.php?user=msausen&project=22&catego ry=0&log=16675&row=5 > > How's that for customer service? Tell a friend! > > Best regards, > Matt Dralle > Matronics / Kitlog Pro > > > > Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | > CA | 94551 > 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | > dralle@matronics.com Email > http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products > For Aircraft > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > > Web Forums! > > > > > Don't get soaked. Take a quick peek at the forecast with the Yahoo! Search weather shortcut. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#loc_weather ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 05:46:32 PM PST US From: linn Walters Subject: Re: RV-List: Vne dependent on TAS? I'm confused. Well, maybe not. If the discussion is based on 'bigger engines', then I can see the basis for the discussion. However, VNE probably can't be attained in level flight ...... even with a lot of extra HP, so the VNE/TAS discussion should die right there. In the absence of a turbo, flying at altitude will make that attempt even farther from attainment. Also, the flutter design limit is higher than VNE (or should be :-P ) so that shouldn't be a problem. So, where's the fear?? Linn do not archive Ken Arnold wrote: > > Listers, > Many thanks for all the good comments re: TAS effect on Vne. The Ken > Kruger article is very good and very clear. ie be very careful when > calculating your closeness to Vne at higher altitudes. > > My engine is Rotax 912 ULS. I have determined the rule of thumb is > multiply thousands by 1.5 which gives a percentage number to find IAS > to compare with TAS. For example, at 8K msl, multiply 8 x 1.5 = 12% > reduction. If Vne at sealevel was 110 mph then 110 x 0.88 = 96.8 mph > IAS. > > This is important news. Other docs have sort of ignored the situation > by discussing how much more efficient it is to fly a little higher. > Further, I think a placard pasted to the panel at some sample > altitudes would be handy. > > Again, many thanks, > Ken Arnold > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin Marks" > To: > Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2007 3:01 PM > Subject: RE: RV-List: Vne dependent on TAS? > > >> >> Found it! >> >> http://www.vansaircraft.com/pdf/hp_limts.pdf >> >> as a discussion of the relationship between TAS and flutter on the RV >> List a year or so ago. You should find lots about it in the archives. >> The RV List discussion was inspired by an article in the RVator called >> "Flying High and Fast" (6th issue of 2004), in which Ken Krueger talks >> about the risk of encountering flutter at high altitude, due to TAS >> being much higher than IAS. >> >> Robin >> RV-10 still in pieces... >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 08:04:38 PM PST US From: "Dan Ross" Subject: RV-List: POH Guys: Has anyone put together a POH for the -9A? It would be great to have one online so as to make the minor changes to airspeed, rate of climb, and so on each homebuilt before printing. Thanks, Dan. Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 08:37:56 PM PST US From: williamc@RV9Builder.com Subject: Re: RV-List: POH Check Vans Airforce web site. I know there are some POHs there but not sure about the 9A. ----- Original Message ----- From: Dan Ross To: rv-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2007 8:00 PM Subject: RV-List: POH Guys: Has anyone put together a POH for the -9A? It would be great to have one online so as to make the minor changes to airspeed, rate of climb, and so on each homebuilt before printing. Thanks, Dan. 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