Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:52 AM - Balancing control surfaces (Shirley Harding)
2. 04:42 AM - Re: Balancing control surfaces (Kevin Horton)
3. 04:42 AM - Re: Balancing control surfaces (Kevin Horton)
4. 04:53 AM - Re: Balancing control surfaces (shirleyh)
5. 05:15 AM - Hard Starting Without Primer (Snow, Daniel A.)
6. 05:53 AM - Re: Hard Starting Without Primer (Dale Walter)
7. 05:53 AM - Re: Hard Starting Without Primer (sheldon barrett)
8. 07:01 AM - Re: Hard Starting Without Primer (Tim Bryan)
9. 07:18 AM - Very wet lower plug (L Klingmuller)
10. 07:19 AM - Garmin GNS 430 WAAS Upgrade Questions (sturdy@att.net)
11. 07:38 AM - Re: Hard Starting Without Primer (Sam Buchanan)
12. 07:46 AM - Re: Very wet lower plug (linn Walters)
13. 07:50 AM - Re: Hard Starting Without Primer (n801bh@netzero.com)
14. 08:14 AM - Re: Very wet lower plug (Mike Robertson)
15. 08:14 AM - Re: Very wet lower plug (John Fasching)
16. 08:50 AM - Re: Garmin GNS 430 WAAS Upgrade Questions (ronlee@pcisys.net)
17. 09:34 AM - Re: Hard Starting Without Primer (Jim Jewell)
18. 10:19 AM - Re: Very wet lower plug (Dan Reeves)
19. 11:05 AM - Re: Hard Starting Without Primer (Dale Walter)
20. 02:08 PM - Re: Re: Real Men! Real Women! and REAL TAIL DRAGGERS! (John Porter)
21. 02:11 PM - Re: Very wet lower plug (linn Walters)
22. 02:59 PM - Re: Hard Starting Without Primer (Randy Lervold)
23. 03:07 PM - Re: Hard Starting Without Primer (Kyle Boatright)
24. 03:11 PM - Re: Very wet lower plug (Neal George)
25. 03:40 PM - Re: Hard Starting Without Primer (Bobby Hester)
26. 03:47 PM - Re: Hard Starting Without Primer (PittsS1@aol.com)
27. 04:48 PM - Re: Support From Vans (Robert Enos II)
28. 05:09 PM - Re: Hard Starting Without Primer (fuel dripping down carbureator) (T.C. Chang)
29. 05:58 PM - Re: Hard Starting Without Primer (Dave B)
30. 07:46 PM - Re: Hard Starting Without Primer (Jim Jewell)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Balancing control surfaces |
Listers, some advice please from those with more experience than me. Having
flown my RV6 for a year now, I've finally got round to having her painted.
(Bright red - looks fabulous!). I know that I need to rebalance the
elevators, and I think I know how to do that - the Vans manual does cover
that. However, my plastic plane colleagues are adamant that I must do the
same with the ailerons. The Vans manual is, as far as I can find, silent on
that topic. It only refers to the galvanised water pipe being the
counterweight. Other RV builders I've spoken to have not balanced the
ailerons and no-one has had any flutter problems that I know of. Any
comments or advice much appreciated.
Shirley
Perth
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Balancing control surfaces |
> <ShirleyH@oceanbroadband.net>
>
> Listers, some advice please from those with more experience than
> me. Having
> flown my RV6 for a year now, I've finally got round to having her
> painted.
> (Bright red - looks fabulous!). I know that I need to rebalance the
> elevators, and I think I know how to do that - the Vans manual does
> cover
> that. However, my plastic plane colleagues are adamant that I must
> do the
> same with the ailerons. The Vans manual is, as far as I can find,
> silent on
> that topic. It only refers to the galvanised water pipe being the
> counterweight. Other RV builders I've spoken to have not balanced the
> ailerons and no-one has had any flutter problems that I know of. Any
> comments or advice much appreciated.
The elevators are 100% balanced - i.e. the balance weight is adjusted
so it balances 100% of the moment around the hinge line. Some
aircraft have aileron balances that are required to be 100% balanced,
or some specific lower percentage. But, the short wing RVs have very
stiff wings, thus Van did not need to be so particular about aileron
balance weights. The specified water pipe is heavy enough. No need
to add weight to the aileron balance, and no need to worry about
aileron flutter.
Kevin Horton
RV-8 (Finishing Kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Balancing control surfaces |
On 11 Apr 2007, at 02:44, Shirley Harding wrote:
> <ShirleyH@oceanbroadband.net>
>
> Listers, some advice please from those with more experience than
> me. Having
> flown my RV6 for a year now, I've finally got round to having her
> painted.
> (Bright red - looks fabulous!). I know that I need to rebalance the
> elevators, and I think I know how to do that - the Vans manual does
> cover
> that. However, my plastic plane colleagues are adamant that I must
> do the
> same with the ailerons. The Vans manual is, as far as I can find,
> silent on
> that topic. It only refers to the galvanised water pipe being the
> counterweight. Other RV builders I've spoken to have not balanced the
> ailerons and no-one has had any flutter problems that I know of. Any
> comments or advice much appreciated.
>
> Shirley
> Perth
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Balancing control surfaces |
Thanks for the explanation!
Shirley
Do Not Archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=106219#106219
Message 5
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| Subject: | Hard Starting Without Primer |
Based on the experience of others, I didn't install a primer on my new
Superior XP O-320 engine. I use the mixture control to kill the engine,
so I understand fuel has to get back to the jets before it will run.
However, I'm having to crank for roughly 20 seconds, let the starter
cool, then crank again for nearly 20 seconds before it will start. My
start sequence is;
Master on
Fuel pump on for at least 10 seconds
Throttle 1/4 open
Crank for 5 seconds
Pump throttle one time and hold at 1/4 open
Continue cranking for 5 more seconds
Pump throttle one time and hold at 1/4 open
Continue cranking for 5 more seconds
Pump throttle one time and hold at 1/4 open
Continue cranking for 5 more seconds
Stop cranking and let starter cool for 2 minutes
Crank for 5 seconds
Pump throttle one time and hold at 1/4 open
Start playing with throttle to find the "sweet spot"
Starts rough until I find the "sweet spot"
Idles smoothly and runs up fine after warm
For those of you who don't use a primer, do you have any suggestions? I
don't know if I'm giving it too much fuel or not enough. I don't smell
gas at the air inlet, so I don't think I'm flooding it, but I'm afraid
to pump too much at the beginning. Do I need to just let the boost pump
run for a while with the throttle at 1/4 open to get fuel to the jets,
or is that only going to work when the engine is cranking over?
I just remembered, it restarts within a couple of revolutions when I
shut it down using the mixture control, so fuel should be reaching the
jets fairly quickly on a cold start.
Thanks,
Daniel Snow
RV-9A, 1 week to SnF, 2 weeks to inspection
Message 6
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| Subject: | Hard Starting Without Primer |
Try:
Master on
Mixture rich
Fuel pump on
Pump throttle one full stroke
Without delay; close throttle, then open 1/8 inch, crank 5 seconds, if no
start repeat throttle pump, open throttle only 1/8 inch again and crank 10
seconds.
If it does not start after 20 seconds something is wrong
After start lean mixture as much as possible while keeping engine running
smooth
After 20 years and 3,000 hrs on carb Lycoming engines I have never had to
pump while cranking.
Best of luck,
Dale
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Snow, Daniel A.
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 8:13 AM
Subject: RV-List: Hard Starting Without Primer
Based on the experience of others, I didn't install a primer on my new
Superior XP O-320 engine. I use the mixture control to kill the engine,
so I understand fuel has to get back to the jets before it will run.
However, I'm having to crank for roughly 20 seconds, let the starter
cool, then crank again for nearly 20 seconds before it will start. My
start sequence is;
Master on
Fuel pump on for at least 10 seconds
Throttle 1/4 open
Crank for 5 seconds
Pump throttle one time and hold at 1/4 open
Continue cranking for 5 more seconds
Pump throttle one time and hold at 1/4 open
Continue cranking for 5 more seconds
Pump throttle one time and hold at 1/4 open
Continue cranking for 5 more seconds
Stop cranking and let starter cool for 2 minutes
Crank for 5 seconds
Pump throttle one time and hold at 1/4 open
Start playing with throttle to find the "sweet spot"
Starts rough until I find the "sweet spot"
Idles smoothly and runs up fine after warm
For those of you who don't use a primer, do you have any suggestions? I
don't know if I'm giving it too much fuel or not enough. I don't smell
gas at the air inlet, so I don't think I'm flooding it, but I'm afraid
to pump too much at the beginning. Do I need to just let the boost pump
run for a while with the throttle at 1/4 open to get fuel to the jets,
or is that only going to work when the engine is cranking over?
I just remembered, it restarts within a couple of revolutions when I
shut it down using the mixture control, so fuel should be reaching the
jets fairly quickly on a cold start.
Thanks,
Daniel Snow
RV-9A, 1 week to SnF, 2 weeks to inspection
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Hard Starting Without Primer |
Daniel,
I had the same kind of start problem (no primer system) early on when first
learning my plane... 0-360
COLD STARTS: ( cold start = 1st start for the day).. Mixture rich, pump
throttle 3 times and leave at 1/4 open, engage starter... fires right up...
HOT STARTS: Do not push or touch throttle, leave closed (pulled back)..
leave mixture in cut off.. start cranking... slowly push mixture in.. when
engine likes it, it will start... give some throttle to keep it running...
Works every time..
Sheldon RV6A 450 hours 0-360 FP
----- Original Message -----
From: "Snow, Daniel A." <Daniel.Snow@wancdf.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 5:13 AM
Subject: RV-List: Hard Starting Without Primer
>
> Based on the experience of others, I didn't install a primer on my new
> Superior XP O-320 engine. I use the mixture control to kill the engine,
> so I understand fuel has to get back to the jets before it will run.
> However, I'm having to crank for roughly 20 seconds, let the starter
> cool, then crank again for nearly 20 seconds before it will start. My
> start sequence is;
>
> Master on
> Fuel pump on for at least 10 seconds
> Throttle 1/4 open
> Crank for 5 seconds
> Pump throttle one time and hold at 1/4 open
> Continue cranking for 5 more seconds
> Pump throttle one time and hold at 1/4 open
> Continue cranking for 5 more seconds
> Pump throttle one time and hold at 1/4 open
> Continue cranking for 5 more seconds
> Stop cranking and let starter cool for 2 minutes
> Crank for 5 seconds
> Pump throttle one time and hold at 1/4 open
> Start playing with throttle to find the "sweet spot"
> Starts rough until I find the "sweet spot"
> Idles smoothly and runs up fine after warm
>
> For those of you who don't use a primer, do you have any suggestions? I
> don't know if I'm giving it too much fuel or not enough. I don't smell
> gas at the air inlet, so I don't think I'm flooding it, but I'm afraid
> to pump too much at the beginning. Do I need to just let the boost pump
> run for a while with the throttle at 1/4 open to get fuel to the jets,
> or is that only going to work when the engine is cranking over?
>
> I just remembered, it restarts within a couple of revolutions when I
> shut it down using the mixture control, so fuel should be reaching the
> jets fairly quickly on a cold start.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Daniel Snow
> RV-9A, 1 week to SnF, 2 weeks to inspection
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Hard Starting Without Primer |
Daniel,
I have an 0-360A1A and I couldn't start mine easily without the primer. I
know I have heard others doing it, but I can't get mine started reasonably
without using it. Thankfully I installed it. Also I think you don't want
to pump the throttle unless you are cranking simultaneously. If it is an
updraft carb, then fuel can just run out into the airbox, down the drain
hole into the cowl and well, you get the point. Why not just install a
primer?
Tim
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-
> server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Snow, Daniel A.
> Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 7:13 AM
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Hard Starting Without Primer
>
>
> Based on the experience of others, I didn't install a primer on my new
> Superior XP O-320 engine. I use the mixture control to kill the engine,
> so I understand fuel has to get back to the jets before it will run.
> However, I'm having to crank for roughly 20 seconds, let the starter
> cool, then crank again for nearly 20 seconds before it will start. My
> start sequence is;
>
> Master on
> Fuel pump on for at least 10 seconds
> Throttle 1/4 open
> Crank for 5 seconds
> Pump throttle one time and hold at 1/4 open
> Continue cranking for 5 more seconds
> Pump throttle one time and hold at 1/4 open
> Continue cranking for 5 more seconds
> Pump throttle one time and hold at 1/4 open
> Continue cranking for 5 more seconds
> Stop cranking and let starter cool for 2 minutes
> Crank for 5 seconds
> Pump throttle one time and hold at 1/4 open
> Start playing with throttle to find the "sweet spot"
> Starts rough until I find the "sweet spot"
> Idles smoothly and runs up fine after warm
>
> For those of you who don't use a primer, do you have any suggestions? I
> don't know if I'm giving it too much fuel or not enough. I don't smell
> gas at the air inlet, so I don't think I'm flooding it, but I'm afraid
> to pump too much at the beginning. Do I need to just let the boost pump
> run for a while with the throttle at 1/4 open to get fuel to the jets,
> or is that only going to work when the engine is cranking over?
>
> I just remembered, it restarts within a couple of revolutions when I
> shut it down using the mixture control, so fuel should be reaching the
> jets fairly quickly on a cold start.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Daniel Snow
> RV-9A, 1 week to SnF, 2 weeks to inspection
>
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Very wet lower plug |
When I was building, I was not aware that lots of flying also requires maintenance,
lots of it at times!
Returning recently from a long, very pleasant x-country trip, I discovered a slight
drop in the mag check of about 125 rpm. 50 to 75 is normal for my Lycoming
0-360 A1A. So, I pulled the lower plugs which always collect more lead
than the upper.
Darn, the lower #2 plug was full of green oil!! Never seen oil before.
What next? Fly the plane for a couple of hours and then check the plug again hoping
that the ring gaps have shifted? Pull the cylinder?
Those of you who have lots of engine experience, please help me out here with your
knowledge.
Lothar, 6A, 700 hrs on a new Lyc.
Message 10
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| Subject: | Garmin GNS 430 WAAS Upgrade Questions |
I recently had the wiring of my Garmin 420 to the Indicator done in preparation
for the WAAS Upgrade. I had to have 4 wires (2 Glide Slope and 2 Vertical Flag)
wires installed. After install, during the self test after start up, my Garmin
420 nows shows the normal half left needle BUT ALSO a half up needle and
both flags disappear. With that wiring done, my unit can now be sent in for
the upgrade and new cable and antenna, and will slide into the same tray. In
talking with someone who has already had it done, he says that he now gets vertical
guidance during a GPS approach.
Stu McCurdy
RV-8 Flying
-----------------------------------
From: ronlee@pcisys.net
Subject: RV-List: Garmin GNS 430 WAAS Upgrade Questions
From Garmin I learned the following (hopefully all is correct)
1) Turnaround time is one week
2) Terrain/obstacle functionality is included in the $1500 price. Price
may increase some time next year (TBD).
3) Primary nav software may be out 3rd quarter of 2007
4) New antenna and coax are included
5) Retains the current mounting tray
6) May require autopilot wiring change/addition
>From Jeppesen the database renewals use the same JSUM software and
Skybound adapter. Annual cost increases from $375 to $410
My question from anyone who has made the upgrade is it really a remove
and replace situation? Will it still drive my Trio wing leveler
autopilot with no wiring changes? Is the possible autpipilot wiring
change if you have altitude autopilot? Any other issues that may affect
a decision to upgrade?
Ron Lee
<html>
<!-- BEGIN WEBMAIL STATIONERY -->
<head></head>
<body>
<!-- WEBMAIL STATIONERY noneset -->
<DIV><BR>I recently had the wiring of my Garmin 420 to the Indicator done in preparation
for the WAAS Upgrade. I had to have 4 wires (2 Glide Slope and
2 Vertical Flag) wires installed. After install, during the self test after
start up, my Garmin 420 nows shows the normal half left needle BUT ALSO a
half up needle and both flags disappear. With that wiring done, my unit
can now be sent in for the upgrade and new cable and antenna, and will slide
into the same tray. In talking with someone who has already had it done,
he says that he now gets vertical guidance during a GPS approach.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Stu McCurdy</DIV>
<DIV>RV-8 Flying</DIV>
<DIV>-----------------------------------</DIV>
<DIV>From: <A onclick="return doCompose(this);" href="http://webmail.att.net/wmc/v/wm/461CE65F000CE3EE00001BE62160281060970B9D9A9B9C?cmd=ComposeTo&adr=ronlee%40pcisys%2Enet&sid=c0" lid="ronlee@pcisys.net">ronlee@pcisys.net</A><BR>Subject: RV-List: Garmin GNS 430 WAAS Upgrade Questions<BR><BR> From Garmin I learned the following (hopefully all is correct)<BR>1) Turnaround time is one week<BR>2) Terrain/obstacle functionality is included in the $1500 price. Price <BR>may increase some time next year (TBD).<BR>3) Primary nav software may be out 3rd quarter of 2007<BR>4) New antenna and coax are included<BR>5) Retains the current mounting tray<BR>6) May require autopilot wiring change/addition<BR><BR>>From Jeppesen the database renewals use the same JSUM software and <BR>Skybound adapter. Annual cost increases from $375 to $410<BR><BR>My question from anyone who has made the upgrade is it really a remove <BR>an
d repl
ace situation? Will it still drive my Trio wing leveler <BR>autopilot with
no wiring changes? Is the possible autpipilot wiring <BR>change if you
have altitude autopilot? Any other issues that may affect <BR>a decision
to upgrade?<BR><BR>Ron Lee<BR></DIV>
<!-- END WEBMAIL STATIONERY -->
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre></body></html>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Hard Starting Without Primer |
Daniel,
I've been flying my primerless O-320 for over seven years. I think if
you will pull the throttle nearly closed instead of 1/4 open you will
enjoy good starts. With my engine, it is turn on fuel pump until
pressure is established then pump off, one or two full strokes of the
throttle depending on how cold the ambient air, pull the throttle
lightly closed, hit the starter button, and the engine will start within
2-5 blades (lightweight starter, two Slick mags). Hot starts are the
same except no fuel pump or stroking of the throttle.
The nearly closed throttle creates more vacuum in the carb and pulls the
rich mixture into the engine better than having the throttle 1/4 open.
If your carb idle mixture screw is set correctly, the engine should
start fine on nearly closed throttle.
Sam Buchanan
=================================
Snow, Daniel A. wrote:
>
> Based on the experience of others, I didn't install a primer on my new
> Superior XP O-320 engine. I use the mixture control to kill the engine,
> so I understand fuel has to get back to the jets before it will run.
> However, I'm having to crank for roughly 20 seconds, let the starter
> cool, then crank again for nearly 20 seconds before it will start. My
> start sequence is;
>
> Master on
> Fuel pump on for at least 10 seconds
> Throttle 1/4 open
> Crank for 5 seconds
> Pump throttle one time and hold at 1/4 open
> Continue cranking for 5 more seconds
> Pump throttle one time and hold at 1/4 open
> Continue cranking for 5 more seconds
> Pump throttle one time and hold at 1/4 open
> Continue cranking for 5 more seconds
> Stop cranking and let starter cool for 2 minutes
> Crank for 5 seconds
> Pump throttle one time and hold at 1/4 open
> Start playing with throttle to find the "sweet spot"
> Starts rough until I find the "sweet spot"
> Idles smoothly and runs up fine after warm
>
> For those of you who don't use a primer, do you have any suggestions? I
> don't know if I'm giving it too much fuel or not enough. I don't smell
> gas at the air inlet, so I don't think I'm flooding it, but I'm afraid
> to pump too much at the beginning. Do I need to just let the boost pump
> run for a while with the throttle at 1/4 open to get fuel to the jets,
> or is that only going to work when the engine is cranking over?
>
> I just remembered, it restarts within a couple of revolutions when I
> shut it down using the mixture control, so fuel should be reaching the
> jets fairly quickly on a cold start.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Daniel Snow
> RV-9A, 1 week to SnF, 2 weeks to inspection
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Very wet lower plug |
L Klingmuller wrote:
> When I was building, I was not aware that lots of flying also requires
> maintenance, lots of it at times!
>
> Returning recently from a long, very pleasant x-country trip, I
> discovered a slight drop in the mag check of about 125 rpm. 50 to 75
> is normal for my Lycoming 0-360 A1A. So, I pulled the lower plugs
> which always collect more lead than the upper.
>
> Darn, the lower #2 plug was full of green oil!! Never seen oil before.
Never seen green oil either!!! :-)
> What next? Fly the plane for a couple of hours and then check the
> plug again hoping that the ring gaps have shifted? Pull the cylinder?
Well, you could try the REM37BYs in the bottom. They've got an
extended ceramic tip. I don't need them in my O-360 ..... so be sure
they fit. They'll take care of lead and oil.
> Those of you who have lots of engine experience, please help me out
> here with your knowledge.
Well, you have me stumped on the green oil. With the x-country, the oil
should be between tan and black, but not green.
Linn
do not archive
>
> Lothar, 6A, 700 hrs on a new Lyc.
>
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Hard Starting Without Primer |
The carb is an updraft one and it is located on the bottom of the motor.
You need intake velocity to carry the mixture up and into the cylinders
. Just as you get the motor turning over with the starter pump the throt
tle several times, that will spray the fuel from the accelerator pump je
t into the incoming airstream and then it will be carried to the cylind
ers.Just pumping the throttle while the motor is not spinning will cause
the fuel to puddle into the airbox,,, Just my two cents worth.. do not
archive
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
-- "Snow, Daniel A." <Daniel.Snow@wancdf.com> wrote:
>
Based on the experience of others, I didn't install a primer on my new
Superior XP O-320 engine. I use the mixture control to kill the engine,
so I understand fuel has to get back to the jets before it will run.
However, I'm having to crank for roughly 20 seconds, let the starter
cool, then crank again for nearly 20 seconds before it will start. My
start sequence is;
Master on
Fuel pump on for at least 10 seconds
Throttle 1/4 open
Crank for 5 seconds
Pump throttle one time and hold at 1/4 open
Continue cranking for 5 more seconds
Pump throttle one time and hold at 1/4 open
Continue cranking for 5 more seconds
Pump throttle one time and hold at 1/4 open
Continue cranking for 5 more seconds
Stop cranking and let starter cool for 2 minutes
Crank for 5 seconds
Pump throttle one time and hold at 1/4 open
Start playing with throttle to find the "sweet spot"
Starts rough until I find the "sweet spot"
Idles smoothly and runs up fine after warm
For those of you who don't use a primer, do you have any suggestions? I
don't know if I'm giving it too much fuel or not enough. I don't smell
gas at the air inlet, so I don't think I'm flooding it, but I'm afraid
to pump too much at the beginning. Do I need to just let the boost pump
run for a while with the throttle at 1/4 open to get fuel to the jets,
or is that only going to work when the engine is cranking over?
I just remembered, it restarts within a couple of revolutions when I
shut it down using the mixture control, so fuel should be reaching the
jets fairly quickly on a cold start.
Thanks,
Daniel Snow
RV-9A, 1 week to SnF, 2 weeks to inspection
========================
===========
========================
===========
========================
===========
<html>The carb is an updraft one and it is located on the bottom of the
motor. You need intake velocity to carry the mixture up and into the cyl
inders. Just as you get the motor turning over with the starter pump the
throttle several times, that will spray the fuel from the accelerator p
ump jet into the incoming airstream and then it will be carried to
the cylinders.Just pumping the throttle while the motor is not spinning
will cause the fuel to puddle into the airbox,,, Just my two cents wort
h.. do not archive<BR><BR><BR>Ben Haas<BR>N801BH<BR>www.haaspowerai
r.com<BR><BR>-- "Snow, Daniel A." <Daniel.Snow@wa
ncdf.com> wrote:<BR>--> RV-List message posted
by: "Snow, Daniel A." <Daniel.Snow@wancdf.c
om><BR><BR>Based on the experience of others
, I didn't install a primer on my&nbs
p;new<BR>Superior XP O-320 engine. I use&
nbsp;the mixture control to kill the engin
e,<BR>so I understand fuel has to get 
;back to the jets before it will run.
<BR>However, I'm having to crank for rough
ly 20 seconds, let the starter<BR>cool, th
en crank again for nearly 20 seconds
before it will start. My<BR>start sequenc
e is;<BR><BR>Master on<BR>Fuel pump on for 
;at least 10 seconds<BR>Throttle 1/4 open<BR>Cr
ank for 5 seconds<BR>Pump throttle one tim
e and hold at 1/4 open<BR>Continue crankin
g for 5 more seconds<BR>Pump throttle one&
nbsp;time and hold at 1/4 open<BR>Continue 
;cranking for 5 more seconds<BR>Pump throttle&n
bsp;one time and hold at 1/4 open<BR>Conti
nue cranking for 5 more seconds<BR>Stop cr
anking and let starter cool for 2 min
utes<BR>Crank for 5 seconds<BR>Pump throttle on
e time and hold at 1/4 open<BR>Start
playing with throttle to find the "sweet&n
bsp;spot"<BR>Starts rough until I find the 
;"sweet spot"<BR>Idles smoothly and runs up&nbs
p;fine after warm<BR><BR>For those of you
who don't use a primer, do you have&n
bsp;any suggestions? I<BR>don't know if I
'm giving it too much fuel or not&nbs
p;enough. I don't smell<BR>gas at the&nbs
p;air inlet, so I don't think I'm flo
oding it, but I'm afraid<BR>to pump too&nb
sp;much at the beginning. Do I need&
nbsp;to just let the boost pump<BR>run for
a while with the throttle at 1/4&nbs
p;open to get fuel to the jets,<BR>or 
;is that only going to work when the&
nbsp;engine is cranking over?<BR><BR>I just rem
embered, it restarts within a couple of&nb
sp;revolutions when I<BR>shut it down using&nbs
p;the mixture control, so fuel should be&n
bsp;reaching the<BR>jets fairly quickly on a&nb
sp;cold start.<BR><BR>Thanks,<BR><BR>Daniel Snow<BR>RV-9A,&nbs
p;1 week to SnF, 2 weeks to inspectio
========================
- The RV-List&
the many List utilities such as the S
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========================
- NEW MATRONIC
now also available via the Web Forum
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<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre></body></html>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Very wet lower plug |
If you are getting oil in the upper cylinder chamber it is probably one of
two problems. The most likely reason is either the intake valve guide has
worn too much or the oil scraper ring on the piston has gone bad. Of the t
wo the most likely is a valve guide. I would check the cylinder compressio
n right off, then I would recommend changing the oil filter and carefully c
hecking the filter element for metal. If that is ok then I would clean the
plug and fly a couple of hours doing a mag check before and after each fli
ght. You might also want to remove the cylinder cover and do a simple visu
al check of the rockers and valves. If nothing appears out of sorts, and t
he compression is still good then you may want to see how much oil it is bu
rning. The Lycoming Service Instruction 1427B tells you the max oil consum
ption is found by using the following formula: .006 X BHP X 4 / 7.4 = Qt/
Hr. So for your 180hp engine it works out to .584 quarts per hour.
If your oil consumption is greater than that then you will have to remove
the cylinder and figure out why.
Good Luck,
Mike Robertson
From: l_klingmuller6@earthlink.netTo: rv-list@matronics.comSubject: RV-List
: Very wet lower plugDate: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 08:13:17 -0600
When I was building, I was not aware that lots of flying also requires main
tenance, lots of it at times!
Returning recently from a long, very pleasant x-country trip, I discovered
a slight drop in the mag check of about 125 rpm. 50 to 75 is normal for
my Lycoming 0-360 A1A. So, I pulled the lower plugs which always collect
more lead than the upper.
Darn, the lower #2 plug was full of green oil!! Never seen oil before.
What next? Fly the plane for a couple of hours and then check the plug aga
in hoping that the ring gaps have shifted? Pull the cylinder?
Those of you who have lots of engine experience, please help me out here wi
th your knowledge.
Lothar, 6A, 700 hrs on a new Lyc.
_________________________________________________________________
Your friends are close to you.-Keep them that way.
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Very wet lower plug |
Lothor - I had this once in my O-320. It was also #2 cylinder. The
hangar neighbor, an A & P offered a guess that ring gaps might get
aligned and allow some oil to seep down. . he suggested to keep flying
and just monitor it. I did that. It never happened again. I am uncertain
if his explanation (guess) was correct, but he was right about not
getting too excited and to just monitor it.
John at Salida
L Klingmuller wrote:
>
> *When I was building, I was not aware that lots of flying also
> requires maintenance, lots of it at times!*
> **
> *Returning recently from a long, very pleasant x-country trip, I
> discovered a slight drop in the mag check of about 125 rpm. 50 to 75
> is normal for my Lycoming 0-360 A1A. So, I pulled the lower plugs
> which always collect more lead than the upper.*
> **
> *Darn, the lower #2 plug was full of green oil!! Never seen oil before.*
> *What next? Fly the plane for a couple of hours and then check the
> plug again hoping that the ring gaps have shifted? Pull the cylinder? *
> **
> *Those of you who have lots of engine experience, please help me out
> here with your knowledge.*
> **
> *Lothar, 6A, 700 hrs on a new Lyc.*
>
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Garmin GNS 430 WAAS Upgrade Questions |
Stu, I already have an indicator for the ILS functionality. Are you
saying that the vertical guidance from WAAS needs a separate wire? I
know that I get horizontal/lateral guidance from GPS positioning on my
indicator so at least that seems to be the same wire(s).
My guess (without pinout info) is that I already have the vertical part
connected.
Will you have to go through a dealer or do the upgrade yourself?
Ron
Lee
---------------------------------------------
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Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Hard Starting Without Primer |
Ben,
I think your two cents worth are well worth the investment. If I may I
would like to add my own two cents worth;
The fuel "puddle in the airbox" and surrounding area then becomes
subject to potential fire hazard conditions due to subsequent engine
backfire.
It has happened to others in the past.
Reduction of fire hazard and easier starting are two of the main reasons
for the addition of primmer systems.
During starting raw fuel is best introduced into the intake ports
immediately ahead of the intake valve (carbureted systems) or in the
cylinders (fuel injected systems).
Raw fuel in the airbox is ill advised, hard on the environment, at least
partially wasted, and has been known to waste aircraft in the past.
OK, maybe three cents worth, {[;-)
Jim in Kelowna RV6A !.5 hr.
----- Original Message -----
From: n801bh@netzero.com
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 6:11 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Hard Starting Without Primer
The carb is an updraft one and it is located on the bottom of the
motor. You need intake velocity to carry the mixture up and into the
cylinders. Just as you get the motor turning over with the starter pump
the throttle several times, that will spray the fuel from the
accelerator pump jet into the incoming airstream and then it will be
carried to the cylinders.Just pumping the throttle while the motor is
not spinning will cause the fuel to puddle into the airbox,,, Just my
two cents worth.. do not archive
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
-- "Snow, Daniel A." <Daniel.Snow@wancdf.com> wrote:
<Daniel.Snow@wancdf.com>
Based on the experience of others, I didn't install a primer on my new
Superior XP O-320 engine. I use the mixture control to kill the
engine,
so I understand fuel has to get back to the jets before it will run.
However, I'm having to crank for roughly 20 seconds, let the starter
cool, then crank again for nearly 20 seconds before it will start. My
start sequence is;
Master on
Fuel pump on for at least 10 seconds
Throttle 1/4 open
Crank for 5 seconds
Pump throttle one time and hold at 1/4 open
Continue cranking for 5 more seconds
Pump throttle one time and hold at 1/4 open
Continue cranking for 5 more seconds
Pump throttle one time and hold at 1/4 open
Continue cranking for 5 more seconds
Stop cranking and let starter cool for 2 minutes
Crank for 5 seconds
Pump throttle one time and hold at 1/4 open
Start playing with throttle to find the "sweet spot"
Starts rough until I find the "sweet spot"
Idles smoothly and runs up fine after warm
For those of you who don't use a primer, do you have any suggestions?
I
don't know if I'm giving it too much fuel or not enough. I don't
smell
gas at the air inlet, so I don't think I'm flooding it, but I'm afraid
to pump too much at the beginning. Do I need to just let the boost
pump
run for a while with the throttle at 1/4 open to get fuel to the jets,
or is that only going to work when the engine is cranking over?
I just remembered, it restarts within a couple of revolutions when I
shut it down using the mixture control, so fuel should be reaching the
jets fairly quickly on a cold start.
Thanks,
Daniel Snow
RV-9A, 1 week to SnF, 2 weeks to
inspectio======================
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Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Very wet lower plug |
I just received my engine from Aero Sport Power and the pickling oil is greenish...
linn Walters <pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net> wrote: L Klingmuller wrote:
When I was building, I was not aware that lots of flying also requires maintenance,
lots of it at times!
Returning recently from a long, very pleasant x-country trip, I discovered a
slight drop in the mag check of about 125 rpm. 50 to 75 is normal for my Lycoming
0-360 A1A. So, I pulled the lower plugs which always collect more lead
than the upper.
Darn, the lower #2 plug was full of green oil!! Never seen oil before.
Never seen green oil either!!! :-)
What next? Fly the plane for a couple of hours and then check the plug again
hoping that the ring gaps have shifted? Pull the cylinder?
Well, you could try the REM37BYs in the bottom. They've got an extended ceramic
tip. I don't need them in my O-360 ..... so be sure they fit. They'll take
care of lead and oil.
Those of you who have lots of engine experience, please help me out here with
your knowledge.
Well, you have me stumped on the green oil. With the x-country, the oil should
be between tan and black, but not green.
Linn
do not archive
Lothar, 6A, 700 hrs on a new Lyc.
---------------------------------
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Message 19
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| Subject: | Hard Starting Without Primer |
Two things to consider:
If the result of one pump of throttle is liquid and not spray, your cranking
engine will not pull the liquid against gravity.
2nd; my method is to pump once and crank immediately before it condenses.
This allows me to set the throttle to correct position (nearly closed eg 1/8
inch from closed) for cold start.
I agree that multiple pumps will cause excess liquid fuel and is a fire
hazard, even while cranking. Multiple pumps is similar to working with
hammers and pliers when you need wrenches.
Dale
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Bryan
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 9:57 AM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Hard Starting Without Primer
Daniel,
I have an 0-360A1A and I couldn't start mine easily without the primer. I
know I have heard others doing it, but I can't get mine started reasonably
without using it. Thankfully I installed it. Also I think you don't want
to pump the throttle unless you are cranking simultaneously. If it is an
updraft carb, then fuel can just run out into the airbox, down the drain
hole into the cowl and well, you get the point. Why not just install a
primer?
Tim
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-
> server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Snow, Daniel A.
> Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 7:13 AM
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Hard Starting Without Primer
>
>
> Based on the experience of others, I didn't install a primer on my new
> Superior XP O-320 engine. I use the mixture control to kill the engine,
> so I understand fuel has to get back to the jets before it will run.
> However, I'm having to crank for roughly 20 seconds, let the starter
> cool, then crank again for nearly 20 seconds before it will start. My
> start sequence is;
>
> Master on
> Fuel pump on for at least 10 seconds
> Throttle 1/4 open
> Crank for 5 seconds
> Pump throttle one time and hold at 1/4 open
> Continue cranking for 5 more seconds
> Pump throttle one time and hold at 1/4 open
> Continue cranking for 5 more seconds
> Pump throttle one time and hold at 1/4 open
> Continue cranking for 5 more seconds
> Stop cranking and let starter cool for 2 minutes
> Crank for 5 seconds
> Pump throttle one time and hold at 1/4 open
> Start playing with throttle to find the "sweet spot"
> Starts rough until I find the "sweet spot"
> Idles smoothly and runs up fine after warm
>
> For those of you who don't use a primer, do you have any suggestions? I
> don't know if I'm giving it too much fuel or not enough. I don't smell
> gas at the air inlet, so I don't think I'm flooding it, but I'm afraid
> to pump too much at the beginning. Do I need to just let the boost pump
> run for a while with the throttle at 1/4 open to get fuel to the jets,
> or is that only going to work when the engine is cranking over?
>
> I just remembered, it restarts within a couple of revolutions when I
> shut it down using the mixture control, so fuel should be reaching the
> jets fairly quickly on a cold start.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Daniel Snow
> RV-9A, 1 week to SnF, 2 weeks to inspection
>
>
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Real Men! Real Women! and REAL TAIL DRAGGERS! |
Bob,
I can hardly wait for when 130 kts is "slowing down". Just gotta get
this thing finished.
John
80002
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob J.
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 12:09 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Real Men! Real Women! and REAL TAIL
DRAGGERS!
Hi Sherman, I got on the brakes fairly hard to get slowed down as fast
as I could, so I taxiied in at a very slow speed with full right
aileron. I don't really remember weathervaning much, but I do remember
being very happy that I was able to make that landing, the ride home was
on the borderline of being painful. It was so bumpy on the way down
from altitude and down low that I had to slow down to about 130KTS about
50 miles out, which I don't have to do often being a flat-lander.
To be honest flying a tailwheel airplane has become second nature to
me, I don't put much thought into where the little wheel is. I've flown
the A models and to be honest, never felt like they were any easier or
took less effort to land. Just my .$.02.
Regards,
Bob Japundza
RV-6 flying F1 under const.
do not archive
On 4/10/07, Sherman Butler <lsbrv7a@yahoo.com> wrote:
Bob - How was it to taxi? I do not have much experience with
conventional landing gear.
My Grumman AA1C was hard to taxi when the winds were above 25kts.
BTW ATC called out 40 gusting to 45 when I was on final with the
Bonanza yesterday. I taxied slowly, and the V-tail does not seem to
weather vane much.
"Bob J." <rocketbob@gmail.com> wrote:
Coming home from SNF 2004, we landed on our airpark on runway 18.
Wind from nearby AWOS was from 250 at 29KTS gusting 38KTS. I remember
it quite vividly. I started on the right side of the runway and had the
right wingtip almost dragging the grass (I was watching it out of the
corner of my eye.) Figured I'd try it once and if it didn't go well
then I'd go around and to the nearby airport with runway 23 into the
wind. Turned out to be a non-event, but the pucker factor was high.
Ended up towards the left side of the center of the runway with full
right aileron and lots of right rudder, half flaps. This was in my
"traditional gear" RV-6.
Doubt if you want but I have no reason to lie. The airplane is
capable of doing it.
Regards,
Bob Japundza
RV-6 flying F1 under const.
Do Not archive
Sherman Butler
RV-7a Wings
Idaho Falls
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Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find
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Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Very wet lower plug |
Thanks Dan .... I've never been able to afford green oil!!! :-D
For the life of me, I can't imagine any green (pickling) oil being left
on a plug after a long trip ...... unless it was never drained and and
was used as breakin oil. :-(
Linn
do not archive
Dan Reeves wrote:
> I just received my engine from Aero Sport Power and the pickling oil
> is greenish...
>
> linn Walters <pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> L Klingmuller wrote:
>
>> When I was building, I was not aware that lots of flying also
>> requires maintenance, lots of it at times!
>>
>> Returning recently from a long, very pleasant x-country trip, I
>> discovered a slight drop in the mag check of about 125 rpm. 50
>> to 75 is normal for my Lycoming 0-360 A1A. So, I pulled the
>> lower plugs which always collect more lead than the upper.
>>
>> Darn, the lower #2 plug was full of green oil!! Never seen oil
>> before.
>
> Never seen green oil either!!! :-)
>
>> What next? Fly the plane for a couple of hours and then check
>> the plug again hoping that the ring gaps have shifted? Pull the
>> cylinder?
>
> Well, you could try the REM37BYs in the bottom. They've got an
> extended ceramic tip. I don't need them in my O-360 ..... so be
> sure they fit. They'll take care of lead and oil.
>
>> Those of you who have lots of engine experience, please help me
>> out here with your knowledge.
>
> Well, you have me stumped on the green oil. With the x-country, the
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> <%0A%3Cpre%3E%3Cb%3E%3Cfont%20size=2%20color=>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Hard Starting Without Primer |
If you pump the throttle without the engine turning over to suck the fuel
from the accelerator pump in you are risking an intake fire. I've actually
seen it happen right before my eyes. Therefore I would strongly recommend
you pump the throttle AFTER you engage the starter.
Also, IIRC, while the MA4-5 carburetor used on virtually all carbureted
O-360s has an accelerator I seem to remember that many of the models for the
O-320 do not. Get the exact model number of your carburetor and do some
reasearch on it to determine whether it has an accelerator pump or not. If
it doesn't then pumping won't do any good. Once you get the model number you
can always call Precision Airmotive for confirmation...
http://www.precisionairmotive.com/
Randy Lervold
----- Original Message -----
From: "sheldon barrett" <sheldonb@frontiernet.net>
Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2007 3:04 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Hard Starting Without Primer
> <sheldonb@frontiernet.net>
>
> Daniel,
> I had the same kind of start problem (no primer system) early on when
> first learning my plane... 0-360
> COLD STARTS: ( cold start = 1st start for the day).. Mixture rich, pump
> throttle 3 times and leave at 1/4 open, engage starter... fires right
> up...
> HOT STARTS: Do not push or touch throttle, leave closed (pulled back)..
> leave mixture in cut off.. start cranking... slowly push mixture in.. when
> engine likes it, it will start... give some throttle to keep it running...
> Works every time..
> Sheldon RV6A 450 hours 0-360 FP
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Snow, Daniel A." <Daniel.Snow@wancdf.com>
> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 5:13 AM
> Subject: RV-List: Hard Starting Without Primer
>
>
>>
>> Based on the experience of others, I didn't install a primer on my new
>> Superior XP O-320 engine. I use the mixture control to kill the engine,
>> so I understand fuel has to get back to the jets before it will run.
>> However, I'm having to crank for roughly 20 seconds, let the starter
>> cool, then crank again for nearly 20 seconds before it will start. My
>> start sequence is;
>>
>> Master on
>> Fuel pump on for at least 10 seconds
>> Throttle 1/4 open
>> Crank for 5 seconds
>> Pump throttle one time and hold at 1/4 open
>> Continue cranking for 5 more seconds
>> Pump throttle one time and hold at 1/4 open
>> Continue cranking for 5 more seconds
>> Pump throttle one time and hold at 1/4 open
>> Continue cranking for 5 more seconds
>> Stop cranking and let starter cool for 2 minutes
>> Crank for 5 seconds
>> Pump throttle one time and hold at 1/4 open
>> Start playing with throttle to find the "sweet spot"
>> Starts rough until I find the "sweet spot"
>> Idles smoothly and runs up fine after warm
>>
>> For those of you who don't use a primer, do you have any suggestions? I
>> don't know if I'm giving it too much fuel or not enough. I don't smell
>> gas at the air inlet, so I don't think I'm flooding it, but I'm afraid
>> to pump too much at the beginning. Do I need to just let the boost pump
>> run for a while with the throttle at 1/4 open to get fuel to the jets,
>> or is that only going to work when the engine is cranking over?
>>
>> I just remembered, it restarts within a couple of revolutions when I
>> shut it down using the mixture control, so fuel should be reaching the
>> jets fairly quickly on a cold start.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Daniel Snow
>> RV-9A, 1 week to SnF, 2 weeks to inspection
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Hard Starting Without Primer |
My experience is similar to what Sam Buchanan posted.
My technique is to turn the fuel pump on, mixture rich, one pump of the
throttle, then wait for 10-20 seconds (in my case, that's about how long it
takes to fasten all of the belts). Then, throttle barely cracked and hit
the starter. The engine starts right up.
KB
----- Original Message ----- >> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-
>> server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Snow, Daniel A.
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 7:13 AM
>> To: rv-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: RV-List: Hard Starting Without Primer
>>
>>
>> Based on the experience of others, I didn't install a primer on my new
>> Superior XP O-320 engine. I use the mixture control to kill the engine,
>> so I understand fuel has to get back to the jets before it will run.
>> However, I'm having to crank for roughly 20 seconds, let the starter
>> cool, then crank again for nearly 20 seconds before it will start. My
>> start sequence is;
>>
>> Master on
>> Fuel pump on for at least 10 seconds
>> Throttle 1/4 open
>> Crank for 5 seconds
>> Pump throttle one time and hold at 1/4 open
>> Continue cranking for 5 more seconds
>> Pump throttle one time and hold at 1/4 open
>> Continue cranking for 5 more seconds
>> Pump throttle one time and hold at 1/4 open
>> Continue cranking for 5 more seconds
>> Stop cranking and let starter cool for 2 minutes
>> Crank for 5 seconds
>> Pump throttle one time and hold at 1/4 open
>> Start playing with throttle to find the "sweet spot"
>> Starts rough until I find the "sweet spot"
>> Idles smoothly and runs up fine after warm
>>
>> For those of you who don't use a primer, do you have any suggestions? I
>> don't know if I'm giving it too much fuel or not enough. I don't smell
>> gas at the air inlet, so I don't think I'm flooding it, but I'm afraid
>> to pump too much at the beginning. Do I need to just let the boost pump
>> run for a while with the throttle at 1/4 open to get fuel to the jets,
>> or is that only going to work when the engine is cranking over?
>>
>> I just remembered, it restarts within a couple of revolutions when I
>> shut it down using the mixture control, so fuel should be reaching the
>> jets fairly quickly on a cold start.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Daniel Snow
>> RV-9A, 1 week to SnF, 2 weeks to inspection
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Very wet lower plug |
LawnBoy 2-cycle oil is green...
But it has no business in your plugs :)
neal
_____
Never seen green oil either!!! :-)
Linn
do not archive
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Hard Starting Without Primer |
I only have 22 hrs on my XP-O360 and I start it just Like Ben says below
and it starts just fine!
Surfing the web from Hopkinsville, KY
My RV7A website: http://webpages.charter.net/bobbyhester/MyFlyingRV7A.htm
n801bh@netzero.com wrote:
> The carb is an updraft one and it is located on the bottom of the
> motor. You need intake velocity to carry the mixture up and into the
> cylinders. Just as you get the motor turning over with the starter
> pump the throttle several times, that will spray the fuel from the
> accelerator pump jet into the incoming airstream and then it will be
> carried to the cylinders.Just pumping the throttle while the motor is
> not spinning will cause the fuel to puddle into the airbox,,, Just my
> two cents worth.. do not archive
>
>
> Ben Haas
> N801BH
> www.haaspowerair.com
>
> -- "Snow, Daniel A." <Daniel.Snow@wancdf.com> wrote:
>
> Based on the experience of others, I didn't install a primer on my new
> Superior XP O-320 engine. I use the mixture control to kill the engine,
> so I understand fuel has to get back to the jets before it will run.
> However, I'm having to crank for roughly 20 seconds, let the starter
> cool, then crank again for nearly 20 seconds before it will start. My
> start sequence is;
>
> Master on
> Fuel pump on for at least 10 seconds
> Throttle 1/4 open
> Crank for 5 seconds
> Pump throttle one time and hold at 1/4 open
> Continue cranking for 5 more seconds
> Pump throttle one time and hold at 1/4 open
> Continue cranking for 5 more seconds
> Pump throttle one time and hold at 1/4 open
> Continue cranking for 5 more seconds
> Stop cranking and let starter cool for 2 minutes
> Crank for 5 seconds
> Pump throttle one time and hold at 1/4 open
> Start playing with throttle to find the "sweet spot"
> Starts rough until I find the "sweet spot"
> Idles smoothly and runs up fine after warm
>
> For those of you who don't use a primer, do you have any suggestions? I
> don't know if I'm giving it too much fuel or not enough. I don't smell
> gas at the air inlet, so I don't think I'm flooding it, but I'm afraid
> to pump too much at the beginning. Do I need to just let the boost pump
> run for a while with the throttle at 1/4 open to get fuel to the jets,
> or is that only going to work when the engine is cranking over?
>
> I just remembered, it restarts within a couple of revolutions when I
> shut it down using the mixture control, so fuel should be reaching the
> jets fairly quickly on a cold start.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Daniel Snow
> RV-9A, 1 week to SnF, 2 weeks to inspectio======================== - The
RV-List&the many List utilities such as the S================================================
- NEW MATRONIC now also available via the Web Forum====================================
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Hard Starting Without Primer |
starting ... you guys sure make it difficult
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Support From Vans |
Hi Dan,
I'm a RV-7a builder from Westport, MA. Currently I'm working on the
canopy. I have a few other friends in the area that are building a RV7
& RV8.
If you ever in the area feel free to give me a call and stop by. The
closest airport to me is EWB where I currently fly an RV4.
Hope the building is going well.
Rob Enos
508.965.5549
----- Original Message -----
From: danbergeronham@aol.com
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, April 02, 2007 8:59 PM
Subject: RV-List: Support From Vans
I'm a first time builder, have been working on my RV-7A for more than
four years, and have recently taken delivery of the finishing kit. (The
pace is going to pick up come June 30th when I finally retire.) I'm
lucky in that I have a great source of local support and advice in the
person of three-time builder (two 6As and a 7A) Fred Stucklen from East
Windsor, CT so I haven't had to call Vans for advice all that often. In
four years I've probably called the builders' assistance office 15 times
at the very most. With but one exception, all of the folks I've spoken
with have been professional, helpful and courteous. I don't recall who
the exception was but I do recall he was a bit of a wise guy. My
experience with Vans over the past four years has been quite positive;
they're a class act and they put out a great pro duct.
Dan Bergeron
RV-7A/N307TB (reserved)
Chicopee, MA
Do not archive.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Message 28
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| Subject: | Hard Starting Without Primer (fuel dripping down carbureator) |
The MA 4SPA carburetor on my O-320 does have an accelerator. I don't have
any starting problem. However, today when I had the cowl off to adjust the
idle a friend observed a small amount of fuel dripping down the airbox after
I have pulled the mixture off (not during the engine run). In the past few
flights I noticed some black streaks on my nose wheel pant. It must be dirt
washed down by the fuel. Any suggestions on what I should look into?
Ted
------------------------------------------
T.C. Chang
http://tc1234c.googlepages.com/
RV-9A, Lycoming (ECI) O320-D2A, 160 hp, Carb, Dual Mag, Sensenich FP
GRT dual DU H1, TT DigiFlight II VSGV, 133.4 Hobbs 4/9/2007
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy Lervold
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 7:57 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Hard Starting Without Primer
If you pump the throttle without the engine turning over to suck the fuel
from the accelerator pump in you are risking an intake fire. I've actually
seen it happen right before my eyes. Therefore I would strongly recommend
you pump the throttle AFTER you engage the starter.
Also, IIRC, while the MA4-5 carburetor used on virtually all carbureted
O-360s has an accelerator I seem to remember that many of the models for the
O-320 do not. Get the exact model number of your carburetor and do some
reasearch on it to determine whether it has an accelerator pump or not. If
it doesn't then pumping won't do any good. Once you get the model number you
can always call Precision Airmotive for confirmation...
http://www.precisionairmotive.com/
Randy Lervold
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Hard Starting Without Primer |
If you crank the engine with the throttle partially open, you'll draw
very little fuel into the cylinders. If the throttle is completely
closed it will pull fuel through the idle circuit and make starting a
lot easier. I learned this early on when I started flying a hand propped
Continental. You had to pull the prop through with the throttle closed
until it sounded "squishy" then crack the throttle and it started on the
first blade. If you have to pump the throttle, you're doing something wrong.
Dave
Also, a minor point, the primer and injectors both add the fuel before
the valve, not directly into the cylinder.
> During starting raw fuel is best introduced into the intake ports
> immediately ahead of the intake valve (carbureted systems) or in the
> cylinders (fuel injected systems).
> *
> *
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Hard Starting Without Primer |
Hi Dave,
You are right , I stand corrected.
Jim in Kelowna
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave B" <dbris200@sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 5:56 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Hard Starting Without Primer
>
> If you crank the engine with the throttle partially open, you'll draw very
> little fuel into the cylinders. If the throttle is completely closed it
> will pull fuel through the idle circuit and make starting a lot easier. I
> learned this early on when I started flying a hand propped Continental.
> You had to pull the prop through with the throttle closed until it sounded
> "squishy" then crack the throttle and it started on the first blade. If
> you have to pump the throttle, you're doing something wrong.
>
> Dave
>
> Also, a minor point, the primer and injectors both add the fuel before the
> valve, not directly into the cylinder.
>
>> During starting raw fuel is best introduced into the intake ports
>> immediately ahead of the intake valve (carbureted systems) or in the
>> cylinders (fuel injected systems).
>> *
>> *
>
>
>
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