---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 04/11/07: 30 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:52 AM - Balancing control surfaces (Shirley Harding) 2. 04:42 AM - Re: Balancing control surfaces (Kevin Horton) 3. 04:42 AM - Re: Balancing control surfaces (Kevin Horton) 4. 04:53 AM - Re: Balancing control surfaces (shirleyh) 5. 05:15 AM - Hard Starting Without Primer (Snow, Daniel A.) 6. 05:53 AM - Re: Hard Starting Without Primer (Dale Walter) 7. 05:53 AM - Re: Hard Starting Without Primer (sheldon barrett) 8. 07:01 AM - Re: Hard Starting Without Primer (Tim Bryan) 9. 07:18 AM - Very wet lower plug (L Klingmuller) 10. 07:19 AM - Garmin GNS 430 WAAS Upgrade Questions (sturdy@att.net) 11. 07:38 AM - Re: Hard Starting Without Primer (Sam Buchanan) 12. 07:46 AM - Re: Very wet lower plug (linn Walters) 13. 07:50 AM - Re: Hard Starting Without Primer (n801bh@netzero.com) 14. 08:14 AM - Re: Very wet lower plug (Mike Robertson) 15. 08:14 AM - Re: Very wet lower plug (John Fasching) 16. 08:50 AM - Re: Garmin GNS 430 WAAS Upgrade Questions (ronlee@pcisys.net) 17. 09:34 AM - Re: Hard Starting Without Primer (Jim Jewell) 18. 10:19 AM - Re: Very wet lower plug (Dan Reeves) 19. 11:05 AM - Re: Hard Starting Without Primer (Dale Walter) 20. 02:08 PM - Re: Re: Real Men! Real Women! and REAL TAIL DRAGGERS! (John Porter) 21. 02:11 PM - Re: Very wet lower plug (linn Walters) 22. 02:59 PM - Re: Hard Starting Without Primer (Randy Lervold) 23. 03:07 PM - Re: Hard Starting Without Primer (Kyle Boatright) 24. 03:11 PM - Re: Very wet lower plug (Neal George) 25. 03:40 PM - Re: Hard Starting Without Primer (Bobby Hester) 26. 03:47 PM - Re: Hard Starting Without Primer (PittsS1@aol.com) 27. 04:48 PM - Re: Support From Vans (Robert Enos II) 28. 05:09 PM - Re: Hard Starting Without Primer (fuel dripping down carbureator) (T.C. Chang) 29. 05:58 PM - Re: Hard Starting Without Primer (Dave B) 30. 07:46 PM - Re: Hard Starting Without Primer (Jim Jewell) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:52:47 AM PST US From: "Shirley Harding" Subject: RV-List: Balancing control surfaces Listers, some advice please from those with more experience than me. Having flown my RV6 for a year now, I've finally got round to having her painted. (Bright red - looks fabulous!). I know that I need to rebalance the elevators, and I think I know how to do that - the Vans manual does cover that. However, my plastic plane colleagues are adamant that I must do the same with the ailerons. The Vans manual is, as far as I can find, silent on that topic. It only refers to the galvanised water pipe being the counterweight. Other RV builders I've spoken to have not balanced the ailerons and no-one has had any flutter problems that I know of. Any comments or advice much appreciated. Shirley Perth ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:42:30 AM PST US From: Kevin Horton Subject: Re: RV-List: Balancing control surfaces > > > Listers, some advice please from those with more experience than > me. Having > flown my RV6 for a year now, I've finally got round to having her > painted. > (Bright red - looks fabulous!). I know that I need to rebalance the > elevators, and I think I know how to do that - the Vans manual does > cover > that. However, my plastic plane colleagues are adamant that I must > do the > same with the ailerons. The Vans manual is, as far as I can find, > silent on > that topic. It only refers to the galvanised water pipe being the > counterweight. Other RV builders I've spoken to have not balanced the > ailerons and no-one has had any flutter problems that I know of. Any > comments or advice much appreciated. The elevators are 100% balanced - i.e. the balance weight is adjusted so it balances 100% of the moment around the hinge line. Some aircraft have aileron balances that are required to be 100% balanced, or some specific lower percentage. But, the short wing RVs have very stiff wings, thus Van did not need to be so particular about aileron balance weights. The specified water pipe is heavy enough. No need to add weight to the aileron balance, and no need to worry about aileron flutter. Kevin Horton RV-8 (Finishing Kit) Ottawa, Canada http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:42:31 AM PST US From: Kevin Horton Subject: Re: RV-List: Balancing control surfaces On 11 Apr 2007, at 02:44, Shirley Harding wrote: > > > Listers, some advice please from those with more experience than > me. Having > flown my RV6 for a year now, I've finally got round to having her > painted. > (Bright red - looks fabulous!). I know that I need to rebalance the > elevators, and I think I know how to do that - the Vans manual does > cover > that. However, my plastic plane colleagues are adamant that I must > do the > same with the ailerons. The Vans manual is, as far as I can find, > silent on > that topic. It only refers to the galvanised water pipe being the > counterweight. Other RV builders I've spoken to have not balanced the > ailerons and no-one has had any flutter problems that I know of. Any > comments or advice much appreciated. > > Shirley > Perth > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:53:41 AM PST US Subject: RV-List: Re: Balancing control surfaces From: "shirleyh" Thanks for the explanation! Shirley Do Not Archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=106219#106219 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:15:23 AM PST US Subject: RV-List: Hard Starting Without Primer From: "Snow, Daniel A." Based on the experience of others, I didn't install a primer on my new Superior XP O-320 engine. I use the mixture control to kill the engine, so I understand fuel has to get back to the jets before it will run. However, I'm having to crank for roughly 20 seconds, let the starter cool, then crank again for nearly 20 seconds before it will start. My start sequence is; Master on Fuel pump on for at least 10 seconds Throttle 1/4 open Crank for 5 seconds Pump throttle one time and hold at 1/4 open Continue cranking for 5 more seconds Pump throttle one time and hold at 1/4 open Continue cranking for 5 more seconds Pump throttle one time and hold at 1/4 open Continue cranking for 5 more seconds Stop cranking and let starter cool for 2 minutes Crank for 5 seconds Pump throttle one time and hold at 1/4 open Start playing with throttle to find the "sweet spot" Starts rough until I find the "sweet spot" Idles smoothly and runs up fine after warm For those of you who don't use a primer, do you have any suggestions? I don't know if I'm giving it too much fuel or not enough. I don't smell gas at the air inlet, so I don't think I'm flooding it, but I'm afraid to pump too much at the beginning. Do I need to just let the boost pump run for a while with the throttle at 1/4 open to get fuel to the jets, or is that only going to work when the engine is cranking over? I just remembered, it restarts within a couple of revolutions when I shut it down using the mixture control, so fuel should be reaching the jets fairly quickly on a cold start. Thanks, Daniel Snow RV-9A, 1 week to SnF, 2 weeks to inspection ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:53:17 AM PST US From: "Dale Walter" Subject: RE: RV-List: Hard Starting Without Primer Try: Master on Mixture rich Fuel pump on Pump throttle one full stroke Without delay; close throttle, then open 1/8 inch, crank 5 seconds, if no start repeat throttle pump, open throttle only 1/8 inch again and crank 10 seconds. If it does not start after 20 seconds something is wrong After start lean mixture as much as possible while keeping engine running smooth After 20 years and 3,000 hrs on carb Lycoming engines I have never had to pump while cranking. Best of luck, Dale -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Snow, Daniel A. Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 8:13 AM Subject: RV-List: Hard Starting Without Primer Based on the experience of others, I didn't install a primer on my new Superior XP O-320 engine. I use the mixture control to kill the engine, so I understand fuel has to get back to the jets before it will run. However, I'm having to crank for roughly 20 seconds, let the starter cool, then crank again for nearly 20 seconds before it will start. My start sequence is; Master on Fuel pump on for at least 10 seconds Throttle 1/4 open Crank for 5 seconds Pump throttle one time and hold at 1/4 open Continue cranking for 5 more seconds Pump throttle one time and hold at 1/4 open Continue cranking for 5 more seconds Pump throttle one time and hold at 1/4 open Continue cranking for 5 more seconds Stop cranking and let starter cool for 2 minutes Crank for 5 seconds Pump throttle one time and hold at 1/4 open Start playing with throttle to find the "sweet spot" Starts rough until I find the "sweet spot" Idles smoothly and runs up fine after warm For those of you who don't use a primer, do you have any suggestions? I don't know if I'm giving it too much fuel or not enough. I don't smell gas at the air inlet, so I don't think I'm flooding it, but I'm afraid to pump too much at the beginning. Do I need to just let the boost pump run for a while with the throttle at 1/4 open to get fuel to the jets, or is that only going to work when the engine is cranking over? I just remembered, it restarts within a couple of revolutions when I shut it down using the mixture control, so fuel should be reaching the jets fairly quickly on a cold start. Thanks, Daniel Snow RV-9A, 1 week to SnF, 2 weeks to inspection ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:53:55 AM PST US From: "sheldon barrett" Subject: Re: RV-List: Hard Starting Without Primer Daniel, I had the same kind of start problem (no primer system) early on when first learning my plane... 0-360 COLD STARTS: ( cold start = 1st start for the day).. Mixture rich, pump throttle 3 times and leave at 1/4 open, engage starter... fires right up... HOT STARTS: Do not push or touch throttle, leave closed (pulled back).. leave mixture in cut off.. start cranking... slowly push mixture in.. when engine likes it, it will start... give some throttle to keep it running... Works every time.. Sheldon RV6A 450 hours 0-360 FP ----- Original Message ----- From: "Snow, Daniel A." Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 5:13 AM Subject: RV-List: Hard Starting Without Primer > > Based on the experience of others, I didn't install a primer on my new > Superior XP O-320 engine. I use the mixture control to kill the engine, > so I understand fuel has to get back to the jets before it will run. > However, I'm having to crank for roughly 20 seconds, let the starter > cool, then crank again for nearly 20 seconds before it will start. My > start sequence is; > > Master on > Fuel pump on for at least 10 seconds > Throttle 1/4 open > Crank for 5 seconds > Pump throttle one time and hold at 1/4 open > Continue cranking for 5 more seconds > Pump throttle one time and hold at 1/4 open > Continue cranking for 5 more seconds > Pump throttle one time and hold at 1/4 open > Continue cranking for 5 more seconds > Stop cranking and let starter cool for 2 minutes > Crank for 5 seconds > Pump throttle one time and hold at 1/4 open > Start playing with throttle to find the "sweet spot" > Starts rough until I find the "sweet spot" > Idles smoothly and runs up fine after warm > > For those of you who don't use a primer, do you have any suggestions? I > don't know if I'm giving it too much fuel or not enough. I don't smell > gas at the air inlet, so I don't think I'm flooding it, but I'm afraid > to pump too much at the beginning. Do I need to just let the boost pump > run for a while with the throttle at 1/4 open to get fuel to the jets, > or is that only going to work when the engine is cranking over? > > I just remembered, it restarts within a couple of revolutions when I > shut it down using the mixture control, so fuel should be reaching the > jets fairly quickly on a cold start. > > Thanks, > > Daniel Snow > RV-9A, 1 week to SnF, 2 weeks to inspection > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:01:15 AM PST US From: "Tim Bryan" Subject: RE: RV-List: Hard Starting Without Primer Daniel, I have an 0-360A1A and I couldn't start mine easily without the primer. I know I have heard others doing it, but I can't get mine started reasonably without using it. Thankfully I installed it. Also I think you don't want to pump the throttle unless you are cranking simultaneously. If it is an updraft carb, then fuel can just run out into the airbox, down the drain hole into the cowl and well, you get the point. Why not just install a primer? Tim > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list- > server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Snow, Daniel A. > Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 7:13 AM > To: rv-list@matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: Hard Starting Without Primer > > > Based on the experience of others, I didn't install a primer on my new > Superior XP O-320 engine. I use the mixture control to kill the engine, > so I understand fuel has to get back to the jets before it will run. > However, I'm having to crank for roughly 20 seconds, let the starter > cool, then crank again for nearly 20 seconds before it will start. My > start sequence is; > > Master on > Fuel pump on for at least 10 seconds > Throttle 1/4 open > Crank for 5 seconds > Pump throttle one time and hold at 1/4 open > Continue cranking for 5 more seconds > Pump throttle one time and hold at 1/4 open > Continue cranking for 5 more seconds > Pump throttle one time and hold at 1/4 open > Continue cranking for 5 more seconds > Stop cranking and let starter cool for 2 minutes > Crank for 5 seconds > Pump throttle one time and hold at 1/4 open > Start playing with throttle to find the "sweet spot" > Starts rough until I find the "sweet spot" > Idles smoothly and runs up fine after warm > > For those of you who don't use a primer, do you have any suggestions? I > don't know if I'm giving it too much fuel or not enough. I don't smell > gas at the air inlet, so I don't think I'm flooding it, but I'm afraid > to pump too much at the beginning. Do I need to just let the boost pump > run for a while with the throttle at 1/4 open to get fuel to the jets, > or is that only going to work when the engine is cranking over? > > I just remembered, it restarts within a couple of revolutions when I > shut it down using the mixture control, so fuel should be reaching the > jets fairly quickly on a cold start. > > Thanks, > > Daniel Snow > RV-9A, 1 week to SnF, 2 weeks to inspection > > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:18:24 AM PST US From: "L Klingmuller" Subject: RV-List: Very wet lower plug When I was building, I was not aware that lots of flying also requires maintenance, lots of it at times! Returning recently from a long, very pleasant x-country trip, I discovered a slight drop in the mag check of about 125 rpm. 50 to 75 is normal for my Lycoming 0-360 A1A. So, I pulled the lower plugs which always collect more lead than the upper. Darn, the lower #2 plug was full of green oil!! Never seen oil before. What next? Fly the plane for a couple of hours and then check the plug again hoping that the ring gaps have shifted? Pull the cylinder? Those of you who have lots of engine experience, please help me out here with your knowledge. Lothar, 6A, 700 hrs on a new Lyc. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:19:17 AM PST US From: sturdy@att.net Subject: RV-List: Garmin GNS 430 WAAS Upgrade Questions I recently had the wiring of my Garmin 420 to the Indicator done in preparation for the WAAS Upgrade. I had to have 4 wires (2 Glide Slope and 2 Vertical Flag) wires installed. After install, during the self test after start up, my Garmin 420 nows shows the normal half left needle BUT ALSO a half up needle and both flags disappear. With that wiring done, my unit can now be sent in for the upgrade and new cable and antenna, and will slide into the same tray. In talking with someone who has already had it done, he says that he now gets vertical guidance during a GPS approach. Stu McCurdy RV-8 Flying ----------------------------------- From: ronlee@pcisys.net Subject: RV-List: Garmin GNS 430 WAAS Upgrade Questions From Garmin I learned the following (hopefully all is correct) 1) Turnaround time is one week 2) Terrain/obstacle functionality is included in the $1500 price. Price may increase some time next year (TBD). 3) Primary nav software may be out 3rd quarter of 2007 4) New antenna and coax are included 5) Retains the current mounting tray 6) May require autopilot wiring change/addition >From Jeppesen the database renewals use the same JSUM software and Skybound adapter. Annual cost increases from $375 to $410 My question from anyone who has made the upgrade is it really a remove and replace situation? Will it still drive my Trio wing leveler autopilot with no wiring changes? Is the possible autpipilot wiring change if you have altitude autopilot? Any other issues that may affect a decision to upgrade? Ron Lee

I recently had the wiring of my Garmin 420 to the Indicator done in preparation for the WAAS Upgrade.  I had to have 4 wires (2 Glide Slope and 2 Vertical Flag) wires installed.  After install, during the self test after start up, my Garmin 420 nows shows the normal half left needle BUT ALSO a half up needle and both flags disappear.  With that wiring done, my unit can now be sent in for the upgrade and new cable and antenna, and will slide into the same tray.  In talking with someone who has already had it done, he says that he now gets vertical guidance during a GPS approach.
 
Stu McCurdy
RV-8 Flying
-----------------------------------
From: ronlee@pcisys.net
Subject: RV-List: Garmin GNS 430 WAAS Upgrade Questions

 From Garmin I learned the following (hopefully all is correct)
1)  Turnaround time is one week
2)  Terrain/obstacle functionality is included in the $1500 price.  Price
may increase some time next year (TBD).
3)  Primary nav software may be out 3rd quarter of 2007
4)  New antenna and coax are included
5)  Retains the current mounting tray
6)  May require autopilot wiring change/addition

>From Jeppesen the database renewals use the same JSUM software and
Skybound adapter.  Annual cost increases from  $375 to $410

My question from anyone who has made the upgrade is it really a remove
an d repl ace situation?  Will it still drive my Trio wing leveler
autopilot with no wiring changes?  Is the possible autpipilot wiring
change if you have altitude autopilot?  Any other issues that may affect
a decision to upgrade?

Ron Lee
________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:38:27 AM PST US From: Sam Buchanan Subject: Re: RV-List: Hard Starting Without Primer Daniel, I've been flying my primerless O-320 for over seven years. I think if you will pull the throttle nearly closed instead of 1/4 open you will enjoy good starts. With my engine, it is turn on fuel pump until pressure is established then pump off, one or two full strokes of the throttle depending on how cold the ambient air, pull the throttle lightly closed, hit the starter button, and the engine will start within 2-5 blades (lightweight starter, two Slick mags). Hot starts are the same except no fuel pump or stroking of the throttle. The nearly closed throttle creates more vacuum in the carb and pulls the rich mixture into the engine better than having the throttle 1/4 open. If your carb idle mixture screw is set correctly, the engine should start fine on nearly closed throttle. Sam Buchanan ================================= Snow, Daniel A. wrote: > > Based on the experience of others, I didn't install a primer on my new > Superior XP O-320 engine. I use the mixture control to kill the engine, > so I understand fuel has to get back to the jets before it will run. > However, I'm having to crank for roughly 20 seconds, let the starter > cool, then crank again for nearly 20 seconds before it will start. My > start sequence is; > > Master on > Fuel pump on for at least 10 seconds > Throttle 1/4 open > Crank for 5 seconds > Pump throttle one time and hold at 1/4 open > Continue cranking for 5 more seconds > Pump throttle one time and hold at 1/4 open > Continue cranking for 5 more seconds > Pump throttle one time and hold at 1/4 open > Continue cranking for 5 more seconds > Stop cranking and let starter cool for 2 minutes > Crank for 5 seconds > Pump throttle one time and hold at 1/4 open > Start playing with throttle to find the "sweet spot" > Starts rough until I find the "sweet spot" > Idles smoothly and runs up fine after warm > > For those of you who don't use a primer, do you have any suggestions? I > don't know if I'm giving it too much fuel or not enough. I don't smell > gas at the air inlet, so I don't think I'm flooding it, but I'm afraid > to pump too much at the beginning. Do I need to just let the boost pump > run for a while with the throttle at 1/4 open to get fuel to the jets, > or is that only going to work when the engine is cranking over? > > I just remembered, it restarts within a couple of revolutions when I > shut it down using the mixture control, so fuel should be reaching the > jets fairly quickly on a cold start. > > Thanks, > > Daniel Snow > RV-9A, 1 week to SnF, 2 weeks to inspection ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:46:12 AM PST US From: linn Walters Subject: Re: RV-List: Very wet lower plug L Klingmuller wrote: > When I was building, I was not aware that lots of flying also requires > maintenance, lots of it at times! > > Returning recently from a long, very pleasant x-country trip, I > discovered a slight drop in the mag check of about 125 rpm. 50 to 75 > is normal for my Lycoming 0-360 A1A. So, I pulled the lower plugs > which always collect more lead than the upper. > > Darn, the lower #2 plug was full of green oil!! Never seen oil before. Never seen green oil either!!! :-) > What next? Fly the plane for a couple of hours and then check the > plug again hoping that the ring gaps have shifted? Pull the cylinder? Well, you could try the REM37BYs in the bottom. They've got an extended ceramic tip. I don't need them in my O-360 ..... so be sure they fit. They'll take care of lead and oil. > Those of you who have lots of engine experience, please help me out > here with your knowledge. Well, you have me stumped on the green oil. With the x-country, the oil should be between tan and black, but not green. Linn do not archive > > Lothar, 6A, 700 hrs on a new Lyc. > > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:50:14 AM PST US From: "n801bh@netzero.com" Subject: Re: RV-List: Hard Starting Without Primer The carb is an updraft one and it is located on the bottom of the motor. You need intake velocity to carry the mixture up and into the cylinders . Just as you get the motor turning over with the starter pump the throt tle several times, that will spray the fuel from the accelerator pump je t into the incoming airstream and then it will be carried to the cylind ers.Just pumping the throttle while the motor is not spinning will cause the fuel to puddle into the airbox,,, Just my two cents worth.. do not archive Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com -- "Snow, Daniel A." wrote: > Based on the experience of others, I didn't install a primer on my new Superior XP O-320 engine. I use the mixture control to kill the engine, so I understand fuel has to get back to the jets before it will run. However, I'm having to crank for roughly 20 seconds, let the starter cool, then crank again for nearly 20 seconds before it will start. My start sequence is; Master on Fuel pump on for at least 10 seconds Throttle 1/4 open Crank for 5 seconds Pump throttle one time and hold at 1/4 open Continue cranking for 5 more seconds Pump throttle one time and hold at 1/4 open Continue cranking for 5 more seconds Pump throttle one time and hold at 1/4 open Continue cranking for 5 more seconds Stop cranking and let starter cool for 2 minutes Crank for 5 seconds Pump throttle one time and hold at 1/4 open Start playing with throttle to find the "sweet spot" Starts rough until I find the "sweet spot" Idles smoothly and runs up fine after warm For those of you who don't use a primer, do you have any suggestions? I don't know if I'm giving it too much fuel or not enough. I don't smell gas at the air inlet, so I don't think I'm flooding it, but I'm afraid to pump too much at the beginning. Do I need to just let the boost pump run for a while with the throttle at 1/4 open to get fuel to the jets, or is that only going to work when the engine is cranking over? I just remembered, it restarts within a couple of revolutions when I shut it down using the mixture control, so fuel should be reaching the jets fairly quickly on a cold start. Thanks, Daniel Snow RV-9A, 1 week to SnF, 2 weeks to inspection ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== The carb is an updraft one and it is located on the bottom of the motor. You need intake velocity to carry the mixture up and into the cyl inders. Just as you get the motor turning over with the starter pump the throttle several times, that will spray the fuel from the accelerator p ump jet into the incoming airstream and  then it will be carried to the cylinders.Just pumping the throttle while the motor is not spinning will cause the fuel to puddle into the airbox,,, Just my two cents wort h.. do not archive


Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerai r.com

-- "Snow, Daniel A." <Daniel.Snow@wa ncdf.com> wrote:
--> RV-List message posted  by: "Snow, Daniel A." <Daniel.Snow@wancdf.c om>

Based on the experience of others , I didn't install a primer on my&nbs p;new
Superior XP O-320 engine.  I use& nbsp;the mixture control to kill the engin e,
so I understand fuel has to get  ;back to the jets before it will run.
However, I'm having to crank for rough ly 20 seconds, let the starter
cool, th en crank again for nearly 20 seconds  before it will start.  My
start sequenc e is;

Master on
Fuel pump on for  ;at least 10 seconds
Throttle 1/4 open
Cr ank for 5 seconds
Pump throttle one tim e and hold at 1/4 open
Continue crankin g for 5 more seconds
Pump throttle one& nbsp;time and hold at 1/4 open
Continue  ;cranking for 5 more seconds
Pump throttle&n bsp;one time and hold at 1/4 open
Conti nue cranking for 5 more seconds
Stop cr anking and let starter cool for 2 min utes
Crank for 5 seconds
Pump throttle on e time and hold at 1/4 open
Start  playing with throttle to find the "sweet&n bsp;spot"
Starts rough until I find the  ;"sweet spot"
Idles smoothly and runs up&nbs p;fine after warm

For those of you  who don't use a primer, do you have&n bsp;any suggestions?  I
don't know if I 'm giving it too much fuel or not&nbs p;enough.  I don't smell
gas at the&nbs p;air inlet, so I don't think I'm flo oding it, but I'm afraid
to pump too&nb sp;much at the beginning.  Do I need& nbsp;to just let the boost pump
run for  a while with the throttle at 1/4&nbs p;open to get fuel to the jets,
or  ;is that only going to work when the& nbsp;engine is cranking over?

I just rem embered, it restarts within a couple of&nb sp;revolutions when I
shut it down using&nbs p;the mixture control, so fuel should be&n bsp;reaching the
jets fairly quickly on a&nb sp;cold start.

Thanks,

Daniel Snow
RV-9A,&nbs p;1 week to SnF, 2 weeks to inspectio ========================         - The RV-List& the many List utilities such as the S ======================== ========================         - NEW MATRONIC  now also available via the Web Forum ======================== ===========
________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:14:59 AM PST US From: Mike Robertson Subject: RE: RV-List: Very wet lower plug If you are getting oil in the upper cylinder chamber it is probably one of two problems. The most likely reason is either the intake valve guide has worn too much or the oil scraper ring on the piston has gone bad. Of the t wo the most likely is a valve guide. I would check the cylinder compressio n right off, then I would recommend changing the oil filter and carefully c hecking the filter element for metal. If that is ok then I would clean the plug and fly a couple of hours doing a mag check before and after each fli ght. You might also want to remove the cylinder cover and do a simple visu al check of the rockers and valves. If nothing appears out of sorts, and t he compression is still good then you may want to see how much oil it is bu rning. The Lycoming Service Instruction 1427B tells you the max oil consum ption is found by using the following formula: .006 X BHP X 4 / 7.4 = Qt/ Hr. So for your 180hp engine it works out to .584 quarts per hour. If your oil consumption is greater than that then you will have to remove the cylinder and figure out why. Good Luck, Mike Robertson From: l_klingmuller6@earthlink.netTo: rv-list@matronics.comSubject: RV-List : Very wet lower plugDate: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 08:13:17 -0600 When I was building, I was not aware that lots of flying also requires main tenance, lots of it at times! Returning recently from a long, very pleasant x-country trip, I discovered a slight drop in the mag check of about 125 rpm. 50 to 75 is normal for my Lycoming 0-360 A1A. So, I pulled the lower plugs which always collect more lead than the upper. Darn, the lower #2 plug was full of green oil!! Never seen oil before. What next? Fly the plane for a couple of hours and then check the plug aga in hoping that the ring gaps have shifted? Pull the cylinder? Those of you who have lots of engine experience, please help me out here wi th your knowledge. Lothar, 6A, 700 hrs on a new Lyc. _________________________________________________________________ Your friends are close to you.-Keep them that way. ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 08:14:59 AM PST US From: John Fasching Subject: Re: RV-List: Very wet lower plug Lothor - I had this once in my O-320. It was also #2 cylinder. The hangar neighbor, an A & P offered a guess that ring gaps might get aligned and allow some oil to seep down. . he suggested to keep flying and just monitor it. I did that. It never happened again. I am uncertain if his explanation (guess) was correct, but he was right about not getting too excited and to just monitor it. John at Salida L Klingmuller wrote: > > *When I was building, I was not aware that lots of flying also > requires maintenance, lots of it at times!* > ** > *Returning recently from a long, very pleasant x-country trip, I > discovered a slight drop in the mag check of about 125 rpm. 50 to 75 > is normal for my Lycoming 0-360 A1A. So, I pulled the lower plugs > which always collect more lead than the upper.* > ** > *Darn, the lower #2 plug was full of green oil!! Never seen oil before.* > *What next? Fly the plane for a couple of hours and then check the > plug again hoping that the ring gaps have shifted? Pull the cylinder? * > ** > *Those of you who have lots of engine experience, please help me out > here with your knowledge.* > ** > *Lothar, 6A, 700 hrs on a new Lyc.* > > > > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:50:41 AM PST US From: ronlee@pcisys.net Subject: Re: RV-List: Garmin GNS 430 WAAS Upgrade Questions Stu, I already have an indicator for the ILS functionality. Are you saying that the vertical guidance from WAAS needs a separate wire? I know that I get horizontal/lateral guidance from GPS positioning on my indicator so at least that seems to be the same wire(s). My guess (without pinout info) is that I already have the vertical part connected. Will you have to go through a dealer or do the upgrade yourself? Ron Lee --------------------------------------------- This message was sent using Endymion MailMan. http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/ ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 09:34:29 AM PST US From: "Jim Jewell" Subject: Re: RV-List: Hard Starting Without Primer Ben, I think your two cents worth are well worth the investment. If I may I would like to add my own two cents worth; The fuel "puddle in the airbox" and surrounding area then becomes subject to potential fire hazard conditions due to subsequent engine backfire. It has happened to others in the past. Reduction of fire hazard and easier starting are two of the main reasons for the addition of primmer systems. During starting raw fuel is best introduced into the intake ports immediately ahead of the intake valve (carbureted systems) or in the cylinders (fuel injected systems). Raw fuel in the airbox is ill advised, hard on the environment, at least partially wasted, and has been known to waste aircraft in the past. OK, maybe three cents worth, {[;-) Jim in Kelowna RV6A !.5 hr. ----- Original Message ----- From: n801bh@netzero.com To: rv-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 6:11 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Hard Starting Without Primer The carb is an updraft one and it is located on the bottom of the motor. You need intake velocity to carry the mixture up and into the cylinders. Just as you get the motor turning over with the starter pump the throttle several times, that will spray the fuel from the accelerator pump jet into the incoming airstream and then it will be carried to the cylinders.Just pumping the throttle while the motor is not spinning will cause the fuel to puddle into the airbox,,, Just my two cents worth.. do not archive Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com -- "Snow, Daniel A." wrote: Based on the experience of others, I didn't install a primer on my new Superior XP O-320 engine. I use the mixture control to kill the engine, so I understand fuel has to get back to the jets before it will run. However, I'm having to crank for roughly 20 seconds, let the starter cool, then crank again for nearly 20 seconds before it will start. My start sequence is; Master on Fuel pump on for at least 10 seconds Throttle 1/4 open Crank for 5 seconds Pump throttle one time and hold at 1/4 open Continue cranking for 5 more seconds Pump throttle one time and hold at 1/4 open Continue cranking for 5 more seconds Pump throttle one time and hold at 1/4 open Continue cranking for 5 more seconds Stop cranking and let starter cool for 2 minutes Crank for 5 seconds Pump throttle one time and hold at 1/4 open Start playing with throttle to find the "sweet spot" Starts rough until I find the "sweet spot" Idles smoothly and runs up fine after warm For those of you who don't use a primer, do you have any suggestions? I don't know if I'm giving it too much fuel or not enough. I don't smell gas at the air inlet, so I don't think I'm flooding it, but I'm afraid to pump too much at the beginning. Do I need to just let the boost pump run for a while with the throttle at 1/4 open to get fuel to the jets, or is that only going to work when the engine is cranking over? I just remembered, it restarts within a couple of revolutions when I shut it down using the mixture control, so fuel should be reaching the jets fairly quickly on a cold start. Thanks, Daniel Snow RV-9A, 1 week to SnF, 2 weeks to inspectio====================== == - The RV-List&the many List utilities such as the S======================== ======================== - NEW MATRONIC now also available via the Web Forum======================= ============= ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 10:19:22 AM PST US From: Dan Reeves Subject: Re: RV-List: Very wet lower plug I just received my engine from Aero Sport Power and the pickling oil is greenish... linn Walters wrote: L Klingmuller wrote: When I was building, I was not aware that lots of flying also requires maintenance, lots of it at times! Returning recently from a long, very pleasant x-country trip, I discovered a slight drop in the mag check of about 125 rpm. 50 to 75 is normal for my Lycoming 0-360 A1A. So, I pulled the lower plugs which always collect more lead than the upper. Darn, the lower #2 plug was full of green oil!! Never seen oil before. Never seen green oil either!!! :-) What next? Fly the plane for a couple of hours and then check the plug again hoping that the ring gaps have shifted? Pull the cylinder? Well, you could try the REM37BYs in the bottom. They've got an extended ceramic tip. I don't need them in my O-360 ..... so be sure they fit. They'll take care of lead and oil. Those of you who have lots of engine experience, please help me out here with your knowledge. Well, you have me stumped on the green oil. With the x-country, the oil should be between tan and black, but not green. Linn do not archive Lothar, 6A, 700 hrs on a new Lyc. --------------------------------- Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection. Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta. ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 11:05:48 AM PST US From: "Dale Walter" Subject: RE: RV-List: Hard Starting Without Primer Two things to consider: If the result of one pump of throttle is liquid and not spray, your cranking engine will not pull the liquid against gravity. 2nd; my method is to pump once and crank immediately before it condenses. This allows me to set the throttle to correct position (nearly closed eg 1/8 inch from closed) for cold start. I agree that multiple pumps will cause excess liquid fuel and is a fire hazard, even while cranking. Multiple pumps is similar to working with hammers and pliers when you need wrenches. Dale -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Bryan Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 9:57 AM Subject: RE: RV-List: Hard Starting Without Primer Daniel, I have an 0-360A1A and I couldn't start mine easily without the primer. I know I have heard others doing it, but I can't get mine started reasonably without using it. Thankfully I installed it. Also I think you don't want to pump the throttle unless you are cranking simultaneously. If it is an updraft carb, then fuel can just run out into the airbox, down the drain hole into the cowl and well, you get the point. Why not just install a primer? Tim > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list- > server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Snow, Daniel A. > Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 7:13 AM > To: rv-list@matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: Hard Starting Without Primer > > > Based on the experience of others, I didn't install a primer on my new > Superior XP O-320 engine. I use the mixture control to kill the engine, > so I understand fuel has to get back to the jets before it will run. > However, I'm having to crank for roughly 20 seconds, let the starter > cool, then crank again for nearly 20 seconds before it will start. My > start sequence is; > > Master on > Fuel pump on for at least 10 seconds > Throttle 1/4 open > Crank for 5 seconds > Pump throttle one time and hold at 1/4 open > Continue cranking for 5 more seconds > Pump throttle one time and hold at 1/4 open > Continue cranking for 5 more seconds > Pump throttle one time and hold at 1/4 open > Continue cranking for 5 more seconds > Stop cranking and let starter cool for 2 minutes > Crank for 5 seconds > Pump throttle one time and hold at 1/4 open > Start playing with throttle to find the "sweet spot" > Starts rough until I find the "sweet spot" > Idles smoothly and runs up fine after warm > > For those of you who don't use a primer, do you have any suggestions? I > don't know if I'm giving it too much fuel or not enough. I don't smell > gas at the air inlet, so I don't think I'm flooding it, but I'm afraid > to pump too much at the beginning. Do I need to just let the boost pump > run for a while with the throttle at 1/4 open to get fuel to the jets, > or is that only going to work when the engine is cranking over? > > I just remembered, it restarts within a couple of revolutions when I > shut it down using the mixture control, so fuel should be reaching the > jets fairly quickly on a cold start. > > Thanks, > > Daniel Snow > RV-9A, 1 week to SnF, 2 weeks to inspection > > > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 02:08:25 PM PST US From: "John Porter" Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Real Men! Real Women! and REAL TAIL DRAGGERS! Bob, I can hardly wait for when 130 kts is "slowing down". Just gotta get this thing finished. John 80002 ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob J. To: rv-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 12:09 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Real Men! Real Women! and REAL TAIL DRAGGERS! Hi Sherman, I got on the brakes fairly hard to get slowed down as fast as I could, so I taxiied in at a very slow speed with full right aileron. I don't really remember weathervaning much, but I do remember being very happy that I was able to make that landing, the ride home was on the borderline of being painful. It was so bumpy on the way down from altitude and down low that I had to slow down to about 130KTS about 50 miles out, which I don't have to do often being a flat-lander. To be honest flying a tailwheel airplane has become second nature to me, I don't put much thought into where the little wheel is. I've flown the A models and to be honest, never felt like they were any easier or took less effort to land. Just my .$.02. Regards, Bob Japundza RV-6 flying F1 under const. do not archive On 4/10/07, Sherman Butler wrote: Bob - How was it to taxi? I do not have much experience with conventional landing gear. My Grumman AA1C was hard to taxi when the winds were above 25kts. BTW ATC called out 40 gusting to 45 when I was on final with the Bonanza yesterday. I taxied slowly, and the V-tail does not seem to weather vane much. "Bob J." wrote: Coming home from SNF 2004, we landed on our airpark on runway 18. Wind from nearby AWOS was from 250 at 29KTS gusting 38KTS. I remember it quite vividly. I started on the right side of the runway and had the right wingtip almost dragging the grass (I was watching it out of the corner of my eye.) Figured I'd try it once and if it didn't go well then I'd go around and to the nearby airport with runway 23 into the wind. Turned out to be a non-event, but the pucker factor was high. Ended up towards the left side of the center of the runway with full right aileron and lots of right rudder, half flaps. This was in my "traditional gear" RV-6. Doubt if you want but I have no reason to lie. The airplane is capable of doing it. Regards, Bob Japundza RV-6 flying F1 under const. Do Not archive Sherman Butler RV-7a Wings Idaho Falls ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 02:11:16 PM PST US From: linn Walters Subject: Re: RV-List: Very wet lower plug Thanks Dan .... I've never been able to afford green oil!!! :-D For the life of me, I can't imagine any green (pickling) oil being left on a plug after a long trip ...... unless it was never drained and and was used as breakin oil. :-( Linn do not archive Dan Reeves wrote: > I just received my engine from Aero Sport Power and the pickling oil > is greenish... > > linn Walters wrote: > > L Klingmuller wrote: > >> When I was building, I was not aware that lots of flying also >> requires maintenance, lots of it at times! >> >> Returning recently from a long, very pleasant x-country trip, I >> discovered a slight drop in the mag check of about 125 rpm. 50 >> to 75 is normal for my Lycoming 0-360 A1A. So, I pulled the >> lower plugs which always collect more lead than the upper. >> >> Darn, the lower #2 plug was full of green oil!! Never seen oil >> before. > > Never seen green oil either!!! :-) > >> What next? Fly the plane for a couple of hours and then check >> the plug again hoping that the ring gaps have shifted? Pull the >> cylinder? > > Well, you could try the REM37BYs in the bottom. They've got an > extended ceramic tip. I don't need them in my O-360 ..... so be > sure they fit. They'll take care of lead and oil. > >> Those of you who have lots of engine experience, please help me >> out here with your knowledge. > > Well, you have me stumped on the green oil. With the x-country, the > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > <%0A%3Cpre%3E%3Cb%3E%3Cfont%20size=2%20color=>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 02:59:00 PM PST US From: "Randy Lervold" Subject: Re: RV-List: Hard Starting Without Primer If you pump the throttle without the engine turning over to suck the fuel from the accelerator pump in you are risking an intake fire. I've actually seen it happen right before my eyes. Therefore I would strongly recommend you pump the throttle AFTER you engage the starter. Also, IIRC, while the MA4-5 carburetor used on virtually all carbureted O-360s has an accelerator I seem to remember that many of the models for the O-320 do not. Get the exact model number of your carburetor and do some reasearch on it to determine whether it has an accelerator pump or not. If it doesn't then pumping won't do any good. Once you get the model number you can always call Precision Airmotive for confirmation... http://www.precisionairmotive.com/ Randy Lervold ----- Original Message ----- From: "sheldon barrett" Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2007 3:04 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Hard Starting Without Primer > > > Daniel, > I had the same kind of start problem (no primer system) early on when > first learning my plane... 0-360 > COLD STARTS: ( cold start = 1st start for the day).. Mixture rich, pump > throttle 3 times and leave at 1/4 open, engage starter... fires right > up... > HOT STARTS: Do not push or touch throttle, leave closed (pulled back).. > leave mixture in cut off.. start cranking... slowly push mixture in.. when > engine likes it, it will start... give some throttle to keep it running... > Works every time.. > Sheldon RV6A 450 hours 0-360 FP > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Snow, Daniel A." > To: > Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 5:13 AM > Subject: RV-List: Hard Starting Without Primer > > >> >> Based on the experience of others, I didn't install a primer on my new >> Superior XP O-320 engine. I use the mixture control to kill the engine, >> so I understand fuel has to get back to the jets before it will run. >> However, I'm having to crank for roughly 20 seconds, let the starter >> cool, then crank again for nearly 20 seconds before it will start. My >> start sequence is; >> >> Master on >> Fuel pump on for at least 10 seconds >> Throttle 1/4 open >> Crank for 5 seconds >> Pump throttle one time and hold at 1/4 open >> Continue cranking for 5 more seconds >> Pump throttle one time and hold at 1/4 open >> Continue cranking for 5 more seconds >> Pump throttle one time and hold at 1/4 open >> Continue cranking for 5 more seconds >> Stop cranking and let starter cool for 2 minutes >> Crank for 5 seconds >> Pump throttle one time and hold at 1/4 open >> Start playing with throttle to find the "sweet spot" >> Starts rough until I find the "sweet spot" >> Idles smoothly and runs up fine after warm >> >> For those of you who don't use a primer, do you have any suggestions? I >> don't know if I'm giving it too much fuel or not enough. I don't smell >> gas at the air inlet, so I don't think I'm flooding it, but I'm afraid >> to pump too much at the beginning. Do I need to just let the boost pump >> run for a while with the throttle at 1/4 open to get fuel to the jets, >> or is that only going to work when the engine is cranking over? >> >> I just remembered, it restarts within a couple of revolutions when I >> shut it down using the mixture control, so fuel should be reaching the >> jets fairly quickly on a cold start. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Daniel Snow >> RV-9A, 1 week to SnF, 2 weeks to inspection >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 03:07:49 PM PST US From: "Kyle Boatright" Subject: Re: RV-List: Hard Starting Without Primer My experience is similar to what Sam Buchanan posted. My technique is to turn the fuel pump on, mixture rich, one pump of the throttle, then wait for 10-20 seconds (in my case, that's about how long it takes to fasten all of the belts). Then, throttle barely cracked and hit the starter. The engine starts right up. KB ----- Original Message ----- >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list- >> server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Snow, Daniel A. >> Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 7:13 AM >> To: rv-list@matronics.com >> Subject: RV-List: Hard Starting Without Primer >> >> >> Based on the experience of others, I didn't install a primer on my new >> Superior XP O-320 engine. I use the mixture control to kill the engine, >> so I understand fuel has to get back to the jets before it will run. >> However, I'm having to crank for roughly 20 seconds, let the starter >> cool, then crank again for nearly 20 seconds before it will start. My >> start sequence is; >> >> Master on >> Fuel pump on for at least 10 seconds >> Throttle 1/4 open >> Crank for 5 seconds >> Pump throttle one time and hold at 1/4 open >> Continue cranking for 5 more seconds >> Pump throttle one time and hold at 1/4 open >> Continue cranking for 5 more seconds >> Pump throttle one time and hold at 1/4 open >> Continue cranking for 5 more seconds >> Stop cranking and let starter cool for 2 minutes >> Crank for 5 seconds >> Pump throttle one time and hold at 1/4 open >> Start playing with throttle to find the "sweet spot" >> Starts rough until I find the "sweet spot" >> Idles smoothly and runs up fine after warm >> >> For those of you who don't use a primer, do you have any suggestions? I >> don't know if I'm giving it too much fuel or not enough. I don't smell >> gas at the air inlet, so I don't think I'm flooding it, but I'm afraid >> to pump too much at the beginning. Do I need to just let the boost pump >> run for a while with the throttle at 1/4 open to get fuel to the jets, >> or is that only going to work when the engine is cranking over? >> >> I just remembered, it restarts within a couple of revolutions when I >> shut it down using the mixture control, so fuel should be reaching the >> jets fairly quickly on a cold start. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Daniel Snow >> RV-9A, 1 week to SnF, 2 weeks to inspection >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 03:11:10 PM PST US From: "Neal George" Subject: RE: RV-List: Very wet lower plug LawnBoy 2-cycle oil is green... But it has no business in your plugs :) neal _____ Never seen green oil either!!! :-) Linn do not archive ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 03:40:56 PM PST US From: Bobby Hester Subject: Re: RV-List: Hard Starting Without Primer I only have 22 hrs on my XP-O360 and I start it just Like Ben says below and it starts just fine! Surfing the web from Hopkinsville, KY My RV7A website: http://webpages.charter.net/bobbyhester/MyFlyingRV7A.htm n801bh@netzero.com wrote: > The carb is an updraft one and it is located on the bottom of the > motor. You need intake velocity to carry the mixture up and into the > cylinders. Just as you get the motor turning over with the starter > pump the throttle several times, that will spray the fuel from the > accelerator pump jet into the incoming airstream and then it will be > carried to the cylinders.Just pumping the throttle while the motor is > not spinning will cause the fuel to puddle into the airbox,,, Just my > two cents worth.. do not archive > > > Ben Haas > N801BH > www.haaspowerair.com > > -- "Snow, Daniel A." wrote: > > Based on the experience of others, I didn't install a primer on my new > Superior XP O-320 engine. I use the mixture control to kill the engine, > so I understand fuel has to get back to the jets before it will run. > However, I'm having to crank for roughly 20 seconds, let the starter > cool, then crank again for nearly 20 seconds before it will start. My > start sequence is; > > Master on > Fuel pump on for at least 10 seconds > Throttle 1/4 open > Crank for 5 seconds > Pump throttle one time and hold at 1/4 open > Continue cranking for 5 more seconds > Pump throttle one time and hold at 1/4 open > Continue cranking for 5 more seconds > Pump throttle one time and hold at 1/4 open > Continue cranking for 5 more seconds > Stop cranking and let starter cool for 2 minutes > Crank for 5 seconds > Pump throttle one time and hold at 1/4 open > Start playing with throttle to find the "sweet spot" > Starts rough until I find the "sweet spot" > Idles smoothly and runs up fine after warm > > For those of you who don't use a primer, do you have any suggestions? I > don't know if I'm giving it too much fuel or not enough. I don't smell > gas at the air inlet, so I don't think I'm flooding it, but I'm afraid > to pump too much at the beginning. Do I need to just let the boost pump > run for a while with the throttle at 1/4 open to get fuel to the jets, > or is that only going to work when the engine is cranking over? > > I just remembered, it restarts within a couple of revolutions when I > shut it down using the mixture control, so fuel should be reaching the > jets fairly quickly on a cold start. > > Thanks, > > Daniel Snow > RV-9A, 1 week to SnF, 2 weeks to inspectio======================== - The RV-List&the many List utilities such as the S================================================ - NEW MATRONIC now also available via the Web Forum==================================== > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 03:47:57 PM PST US From: PittsS1@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Hard Starting Without Primer starting ... you guys sure make it difficult ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 04:48:06 PM PST US From: "Robert Enos II" Subject: Re: RV-List: Support From Vans Hi Dan, I'm a RV-7a builder from Westport, MA. Currently I'm working on the canopy. I have a few other friends in the area that are building a RV7 & RV8. If you ever in the area feel free to give me a call and stop by. The closest airport to me is EWB where I currently fly an RV4. Hope the building is going well. Rob Enos 508.965.5549 ----- Original Message ----- From: danbergeronham@aol.com To: rv-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, April 02, 2007 8:59 PM Subject: RV-List: Support From Vans I'm a first time builder, have been working on my RV-7A for more than four years, and have recently taken delivery of the finishing kit. (The pace is going to pick up come June 30th when I finally retire.) I'm lucky in that I have a great source of local support and advice in the person of three-time builder (two 6As and a 7A) Fred Stucklen from East Windsor, CT so I haven't had to call Vans for advice all that often. In four years I've probably called the builders' assistance office 15 times at the very most. With but one exception, all of the folks I've spoken with have been professional, helpful and courteous. I don't recall who the exception was but I do recall he was a bit of a wise guy. My experience with Vans over the past four years has been quite positive; they're a class act and they put out a great pro duct. Dan Bergeron RV-7A/N307TB (reserved) Chicopee, MA Do not archive. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 05:09:43 PM PST US From: "T.C. Chang" Subject: RE: RV-List: Hard Starting Without Primer (fuel dripping down carbureator) The MA 4SPA carburetor on my O-320 does have an accelerator. I don't have any starting problem. However, today when I had the cowl off to adjust the idle a friend observed a small amount of fuel dripping down the airbox after I have pulled the mixture off (not during the engine run). In the past few flights I noticed some black streaks on my nose wheel pant. It must be dirt washed down by the fuel. Any suggestions on what I should look into? Ted ------------------------------------------ T.C. Chang http://tc1234c.googlepages.com/ RV-9A, Lycoming (ECI) O320-D2A, 160 hp, Carb, Dual Mag, Sensenich FP GRT dual DU H1, TT DigiFlight II VSGV, 133.4 Hobbs 4/9/2007 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy Lervold Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 7:57 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Hard Starting Without Primer If you pump the throttle without the engine turning over to suck the fuel from the accelerator pump in you are risking an intake fire. I've actually seen it happen right before my eyes. Therefore I would strongly recommend you pump the throttle AFTER you engage the starter. Also, IIRC, while the MA4-5 carburetor used on virtually all carbureted O-360s has an accelerator I seem to remember that many of the models for the O-320 do not. Get the exact model number of your carburetor and do some reasearch on it to determine whether it has an accelerator pump or not. If it doesn't then pumping won't do any good. Once you get the model number you can always call Precision Airmotive for confirmation... http://www.precisionairmotive.com/ Randy Lervold >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 05:58:05 PM PST US From: Dave B Subject: Re: RV-List: Hard Starting Without Primer If you crank the engine with the throttle partially open, you'll draw very little fuel into the cylinders. If the throttle is completely closed it will pull fuel through the idle circuit and make starting a lot easier. I learned this early on when I started flying a hand propped Continental. You had to pull the prop through with the throttle closed until it sounded "squishy" then crack the throttle and it started on the first blade. If you have to pump the throttle, you're doing something wrong. Dave Also, a minor point, the primer and injectors both add the fuel before the valve, not directly into the cylinder. > During starting raw fuel is best introduced into the intake ports > immediately ahead of the intake valve (carbureted systems) or in the > cylinders (fuel injected systems). > * > * ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 07:46:13 PM PST US From: "Jim Jewell" Subject: Re: RV-List: Hard Starting Without Primer Hi Dave, You are right , I stand corrected. Jim in Kelowna ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave B" Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 5:56 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Hard Starting Without Primer > > If you crank the engine with the throttle partially open, you'll draw very > little fuel into the cylinders. If the throttle is completely closed it > will pull fuel through the idle circuit and make starting a lot easier. I > learned this early on when I started flying a hand propped Continental. > You had to pull the prop through with the throttle closed until it sounded > "squishy" then crack the throttle and it started on the first blade. If > you have to pump the throttle, you're doing something wrong. > > Dave > > Also, a minor point, the primer and injectors both add the fuel before the > valve, not directly into the cylinder. > >> During starting raw fuel is best introduced into the intake ports >> immediately ahead of the intake valve (carbureted systems) or in the >> cylinders (fuel injected systems). >> * >> * > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rv-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rv-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.