Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:10 AM - Re: User Fees and Patriotism (Kevin Horton)
2. 05:35 AM - Re: What I Miss at SnF (John Huft)
3. 06:11 AM - Re: What I Miss at SnF (Dale Walter)
4. 06:50 AM - Re: User Fees and Patriotism (SCOTT SPENCER)
5. 06:57 AM - Small Airport economic impact (Ray D. Congdon)
6. 07:08 AM - Re: User Fees and Patriotism (ronlee@pcisys.net)
7. 07:22 AM - Re: What I Miss at SnF (John Huft)
8. 07:51 AM - Re: What I Miss at SnF (Brian Kraut)
9. 08:26 AM - Re: User Fees and Patriotism (Jim Fogarty at Lakes & Leisure Realty)
10. 08:55 AM - Re: Small Airport economic impact (Jim Fogarty at Lakes & Leisure Realty)
11. 08:56 AM - Re: Re: User Fees and Patriotism (Terry Watson)
12. 09:05 AM - Re: User Fees and Patriotism (Rob Prior)
13. 09:14 AM - Re: What I Miss at SnF (Jim Carey)
14. 09:22 AM - Looking for advice (Dan Ross)
15. 10:06 AM - Re: Looking for advice (Bruce Gray)
16. 11:12 AM - Re: Looking for advice (Bruce Gray)
17. 11:12 AM - Re: Looking for advice (carlos)
18. 11:14 AM - Re: Looking for advice (carlos)
19. 11:37 AM - Small Airport economic impact, $2 bills (ronlee@pcisys.net)
20. 12:13 PM - User Fees and Patriotism (James H Nelson)
21. 01:39 PM - User Fees (jim & terri truitt)
22. 01:45 PM - Re: User Fees and Patriotism (Joseph Larson)
23. 01:51 PM - Re: User Fees (Chuck Jensen)
24. 02:15 PM - Re: Looking for advice (Tom Gummo)
25. 03:17 PM - Re: User Fees and Patriotism (Terry Watson)
26. 03:24 PM - Re: Looking for advice (Joseph Larson)
27. 03:45 PM - Re: Re: User Fees and Patriotism ()
28. 04:53 PM - Re: User Fees and Patriotism (Ken Howell)
29. 05:04 PM - Re: User Fees and Patriotism (Joseph Larson)
30. 05:07 PM - Re: Vans vs. Bobs Fairings (Kelly Patterson)
31. 05:51 PM - Re: User Fees and Patriotism (Tom & Cathy Ervin)
32. 05:52 PM - Re: Re: Vans vs. Bobs Fairings (Steve Eberhart)
33. 06:04 PM - Re: User Fees and Patriotism (Tom & Cathy Ervin)
34. 06:09 PM - Re: User Fees and Patriotism (Jerry Springer)
35. 06:14 PM - Re: User Fees and Patriotism (Tom & Cathy Ervin)
36. 06:26 PM - Re: Looking for advice (Bruce Gray)
37. 06:33 PM - Re: Re: Vans vs. Bobs Fairings (Garry)
38. 06:49 PM - Re: Re: Vans vs. Bobs Fairings (luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky))
39. 07:23 PM - Phoenix April 23-26 (Dave Nellis)
40. 07:25 PM - Re: User Fees and Patriotism (Lloyd, Daniel R.)
41. 07:30 PM - Re: User Fees and Patriotism (Joe Larson)
42. 07:30 PM - Re: User Fees and Patriotism (Joe Larson)
43. 07:36 PM - Pedal planes (Sherman Butler)
44. 07:41 PM - User fees and patriotism (jim & terri truitt)
45. 07:41 PM - Re: Looking for advice (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
46. 07:46 PM - Re: User Fees and Patriotism (Jeffery J. Morgan)
47. 08:46 PM - Re: Looking for advice (Bruce Gray)
48. 09:39 PM - Re: Pedal planes (Tom Gummo)
49. 10:14 PM - Re: Looking for advice (Tom Gummo)
50. 10:19 PM - Re: User Fees and Patriotism (Jerry Springer)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: User Fees and Patriotism |
On 18 Apr 2007, at 21:44, Rob Prior wrote:
>
> On 16:02 2007-04-18 Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com> wrote:
>>> year over year. Compare/contrast that to the developments in
>>> engine technology in motorcycles, boats, cars, etc. We're still
>>> running the gas-guzzlers.
>>
>> Which in-production gasoline-powered cars have a brake specific fuel
>> consumption lower than a fuel-injected Lycoming running lean of
>> peak? With references please.
>
> I probably should have said "We're still running the gas-guzzlers,
> as far
> as the general public is concerned." There are Hybrid SUV's now
> that get
> gas mileage as good as a large, non-hybrid sedan, but people still
> lump all
> SUV's into one category, hybrid or not.
>
> But are you saying that Lycomings don't need improvement? Can't be
> improved? Shouldn't be improved? Just because they're already pretty
> good, that's no reason to just sit by and tell everyone else to
> pull up
> their socks. "The problem isn't aircraft engines, it's everyone
> else!"
> Imagine how far that would go in a public debate.
>
> Public perception of private aircraft owners is that we're a bunch
> of rich
> playboys, doing whatever we want. Much like the SU
I doubt that it is possible to make much improvement in brake
specific fuel consumption (i.e. how much fuel flow is required to
produce a given amount of power) unless we move away from the Otto
cycle. All gasoline-powered engines that I am aware of that had
better fuel consumption numbers than a fuel-injected Lycoming were
very complicated and heavy. Very complicated generally means
expensive and unreliable. And heavier aircraft have higher induced
drag, which means you need more power to fly the same speed, which
increases fuel consumption.
It is certainly possible to make aircraft that burn less fuel than
our RVs. You do that by reducing aircraft weight, minimizing drag,
and accepting lower cruise speeds. Then you can get the desired
performance with a much lower power engine, and less power required
for cruise means lower fuel consumption. But, anyone who was really
interested in this wouldn't be building a classic RV. They might
build an RV-12, or some of the high speed, non-LSA (too fast),
European designs that use small engines. The high fuel costs in
Europe has already pushed them in this direction. We in North
America are 15 or 20 years behind.
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: What I Miss at SnF |
Great post Kyle!
As one of the racers, I guess that was the ultimate reward for the hours
of building. I sure miss it too, and I miss Sun n Fun too, because I
won't go if there isn't a race.
Maybe if a few more people felt as you do, and let their feelings be
known, it could be held again.
John Huft
RV8 "Nuisance"
Kyle Boatright wrote:
> One thing that was always inspiring to me was the Sun 100. You got up
> early on the Friday (?) of the show and watched the pilots roll out
> their aircraft, all polished, with seams taped, a few "luxury" items
> like VOR antennae and tailwheel springs deleted, and race numbers
> taped on the side. They lined up from fastest to slowest, and then off
> they went.
>
> A 350 horse Venture leaving prop contrails, an RV-4 flying all the way
> down the runway in ground effect before beginning his climb, a couple
> of folks in KR-2's and Sonerais screaming after them a few minutes
> later, and last, but not least, a Kitfox or some other
> not-particularly fast airplane going out just to see how fast 80 hp
> will push a big winged, strutted Sunday flyer around a 100 mile course.
>
> Twenty minutes later, the fast airplanes are back. The Ventures, the
> Swearingens, and the Glasair III's buzzing overhead at 500' and maybe
> 350 mph, having traded a few feet of altitude for more speed. In
> another minute, the 4 cylinder Glasairs and Lancairs arrive, with the
> fast RV's and Rockets mixed in, followed by the slower RV's, which are
> "only" doing 200 mph or so as the cross the finish line. A little
> while later, the KR's and Sonerais buzz by too, followed by pokey in
> his Kitfox.
>
> And the amazing thing is that these people built all of these
> beautiful, fast airplanes in workshops and garages spread from one
> coast to another. It gave me chill bumps every time.
>
> KB
> *
>
>
> *
Message 3
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| Subject: | What I Miss at SnF |
We should get all the interested parties together and hold our own race(s).
I bet we would have plenty of racers and spectators. I will be one. Let's
get organized! If we have it Sun n Fun week we just have it at a nearby area
that does not conflict with space.
Dale
RV6a
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Huft
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 8:34 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: What I Miss at SnF
Great post Kyle!
As one of the racers, I guess that was the ultimate reward for the hours
of building. I sure miss it too, and I miss Sun n Fun too, because I
won't go if there isn't a race.
Maybe if a few more people felt as you do, and let their feelings be
known, it could be held again.
John Huft
RV8 "Nuisance"
Kyle Boatright wrote:
> One thing that was always inspiring to me was the Sun 100. You got up
> early on the Friday (?) of the show and watched the pilots roll out
> their aircraft, all polished, with seams taped, a few "luxury" items
> like VOR antennae and tailwheel springs deleted, and race numbers
> taped on the side. They lined up from fastest to slowest, and then off
> they went.
>
> A 350 horse Venture leaving prop contrails, an RV-4 flying all the way
> down the runway in ground effect before beginning his climb, a couple
> of folks in KR-2's and Sonerais screaming after them a few minutes
> later, and last, but not least, a Kitfox or some other
> not-particularly fast airplane going out just to see how fast 80 hp
> will push a big winged, strutted Sunday flyer around a 100 mile course.
>
> Twenty minutes later, the fast airplanes are back. The Ventures, the
> Swearingens, and the Glasair III's buzzing overhead at 500' and maybe
> 350 mph, having traded a few feet of altitude for more speed. In
> another minute, the 4 cylinder Glasairs and Lancairs arrive, with the
> fast RV's and Rockets mixed in, followed by the slower RV's, which are
> "only" doing 200 mph or so as the cross the finish line. A little
> while later, the KR's and Sonerais buzz by too, followed by pokey in
> his Kitfox.
>
> And the amazing thing is that these people built all of these
> beautiful, fast airplanes in workshops and garages spread from one
> coast to another. It gave me chill bumps every time.
>
> KB
> *
>
>
> *
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: User Fees and Patriotism |
Somebody else may have said this by now... I confess I've only skimmed the postings
lately. But I *must* say:
Anybody who has written to this list about user fees and has not yet written
all their elected representatives should be ashamed!
Scott
N4ZW
Message 5
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| Subject: | Small Airport economic impact |
Thought I'd relate this story;
A local FBO at a small airport that is favored by gliders (BTW, Van has been spotted
there several times!) attended a city council meeting where the fate of
the airport was discussed and it was decided not to "Waste" any more money on
airport maintence let alone finace upgrades out of city coffers. The FBO, being
a very savy businessman, came up with an idea. He went to the local bank and
ordered $4000 in $2 bills. When they arrived he, for the next month, used the
$2 bills to make change for every transaction that he conducted at the field.
At the next city council meeting, he stood and asked how many businessmen (and
women, I'm sure, to be PC) had gotten a large flux of $2 bills? Since this is
a small town, most of the business owners were in attendence at the meeting and
many heads bobbed up and down and a general grumbling was heard as $2 bills
are a pain for small, cash oriented businesses because they have to be handled
seperately from all other cash. The cash drawers don't have a place for them,
etc... "Well", he said, "each one of those $2 bills came from the airport...."
the topic changed as the businesses realized how much money their local aiport
put into the local economy...
Oh, yeah, visit 1L9, Parowan UT sometime. They have a nice new taxiway, numerous
new hangers, new paint on the runway, and a rather nice little campground
on the strip, all built and maintained with local public $$$.... and don't forget
to pick up a couple of $2 bills in your change when you fuel up!
ISA-USA Inc.
Industrial Strength Answers For Telecommunications Infrastructure
Ray D. Congdon
5515 N 4400 W
Cedar City, UT 84720 USA
www.isa-usa-inc.com
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: User Fees and Patriotism |
> > But are you saying that Lycomings don't need improvement? Can't be
> > improved? Shouldn't be improved?
I once calculated that I get better MPG with my O-360 RV-6A than I do
with my 2001 Jeep Cherokee. Oh my. A SUV driver AND pilot. Waaaa waaa
for the global warming chicken littles. See what covered much of North
America around 15000 years ago then come complain about global warming.
Ron
Lee
---------------------------------------------
This message was sent using Endymion MailMan.
http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: What I Miss at SnF |
Hi Dale
It is being done, see...
http://www.sportairrace.org/
It will take a while to build the national recognition that the Sun 100
had, but I am supporting it and hoping for the best.
John
Dale Walter wrote:
>
> We should get all the interested parties together and hold our own race(s).
> I bet we would have plenty of racers and spectators. I will be one. Let's
> get organized! If we have it Sun n Fun week we just have it at a nearby area
> that does not conflict with space.
> Dale
> RV6a
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Huft
> Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 8:34 AM
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: What I Miss at SnF
>
>
> Great post Kyle!
>
> As one of the racers, I guess that was the ultimate reward for the hours
> of building. I sure miss it too, and I miss Sun n Fun too, because I
> won't go if there isn't a race.
>
> Maybe if a few more people felt as you do, and let their feelings be
> known, it could be held again.
>
> John Huft
> RV8 "Nuisance"
>
>
> Kyle Boatright wrote:
>
>> One thing that was always inspiring to me was the Sun 100. You got up
>> early on the Friday (?) of the show and watched the pilots roll out
>> their aircraft, all polished, with seams taped, a few "luxury" items
>> like VOR antennae and tailwheel springs deleted, and race numbers
>> taped on the side. They lined up from fastest to slowest, and then off
>> they went.
>>
>> A 350 horse Venture leaving prop contrails, an RV-4 flying all the way
>> down the runway in ground effect before beginning his climb, a couple
>> of folks in KR-2's and Sonerais screaming after them a few minutes
>> later, and last, but not least, a Kitfox or some other
>> not-particularly fast airplane going out just to see how fast 80 hp
>> will push a big winged, strutted Sunday flyer around a 100 mile course.
>>
>> Twenty minutes later, the fast airplanes are back. The Ventures, the
>> Swearingens, and the Glasair III's buzzing overhead at 500' and maybe
>> 350 mph, having traded a few feet of altitude for more speed. In
>> another minute, the 4 cylinder Glasairs and Lancairs arrive, with the
>> fast RV's and Rockets mixed in, followed by the slower RV's, which are
>> "only" doing 200 mph or so as the cross the finish line. A little
>> while later, the KR's and Sonerais buzz by too, followed by pokey in
>> his Kitfox.
>>
>> And the amazing thing is that these people built all of these
>> beautiful, fast airplanes in workshops and garages spread from one
>> coast to another. It gave me chill bumps every time.
>>
>> KB
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | What I Miss at SnF |
Sun N Fun ended it because of the insurance the year that I first took my
Midget Mustang there. I was really looking forward to racing since I have
never done it before and it was always one of my dreams weather I was going
to be competitive or not. Hopefully they will get it back at SNF next year.
Brian Kraut
Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
www.engalt.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of John Huft
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 10:22 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: What I Miss at SnF
Hi Dale
It is being done, see...
http://www.sportairrace.org/
It will take a while to build the national recognition that the Sun 100
had, but I am supporting it and hoping for the best.
John
Dale Walter wrote:
>
> We should get all the interested parties together and hold our own
race(s).
> I bet we would have plenty of racers and spectators. I will be one. Let's
> get organized! If we have it Sun n Fun week we just have it at a nearby
area
> that does not conflict with space.
> Dale
> RV6a
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Huft
> Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 8:34 AM
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: What I Miss at SnF
>
>
> Great post Kyle!
>
> As one of the racers, I guess that was the ultimate reward for the hours
> of building. I sure miss it too, and I miss Sun n Fun too, because I
> won't go if there isn't a race.
>
> Maybe if a few more people felt as you do, and let their feelings be
> known, it could be held again.
>
> John Huft
> RV8 "Nuisance"
>
>
> Kyle Boatright wrote:
>
>> One thing that was always inspiring to me was the Sun 100. You got up
>> early on the Friday (?) of the show and watched the pilots roll out
>> their aircraft, all polished, with seams taped, a few "luxury" items
>> like VOR antennae and tailwheel springs deleted, and race numbers
>> taped on the side. They lined up from fastest to slowest, and then off
>> they went.
>>
>> A 350 horse Venture leaving prop contrails, an RV-4 flying all the way
>> down the runway in ground effect before beginning his climb, a couple
>> of folks in KR-2's and Sonerais screaming after them a few minutes
>> later, and last, but not least, a Kitfox or some other
>> not-particularly fast airplane going out just to see how fast 80 hp
>> will push a big winged, strutted Sunday flyer around a 100 mile course.
>>
>> Twenty minutes later, the fast airplanes are back. The Ventures, the
>> Swearingens, and the Glasair III's buzzing overhead at 500' and maybe
>> 350 mph, having traded a few feet of altitude for more speed. In
>> another minute, the 4 cylinder Glasairs and Lancairs arrive, with the
>> fast RV's and Rockets mixed in, followed by the slower RV's, which are
>> "only" doing 200 mph or so as the cross the finish line. A little
>> while later, the KR's and Sonerais buzz by too, followed by pokey in
>> his Kitfox.
>>
>> And the amazing thing is that these people built all of these
>> beautiful, fast airplanes in workshops and garages spread from one
>> coast to another. It gave me chill bumps every time.
>>
>> KB
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: User Fees and Patriotism |
Al Gore said Global Warming is man made but a few years back a team of
wonderful people made a recovery of a P-38, Glacier Girl, from a shaft depth
of 268' of ice. Mr Gore, I hope it warms up! Then we could go get the rest
of the planes.
Jim
RV9a Builder
----- Original Message -----
From: <ronlee@pcisys.net>
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 9:07 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: User Fees and Patriotism
>
>
>> > But are you saying that Lycomings don't need improvement? Can't be
>> > improved? Shouldn't be improved?
>
> I once calculated that I get better MPG with my O-360 RV-6A than I do
> with my 2001 Jeep Cherokee. Oh my. A SUV driver AND pilot. Waaaa waaa
> for the global warming chicken littles. See what covered much of North
> America around 15000 years ago then come complain about global warming.
>
> Ron
> Lee
>
> ---------------------------------------------
> This message was sent using Endymion MailMan.
> http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/
>
>
> --
> 5:32 AM
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Small Airport economic impact |
That's a great idea. Commerce at work and economic impact on the up
swing.
Also, I like the cedit card idea that Terry McHenry has. I wonder if
part of the transaction fee that the retailer pays for letting you use
your credit card could be returned to the local business through a
discount on his monthly statement, stating: "Thank your local Airport
Commission - Commerce at work - AOPA and/or EAA" What does this group
of rivet bangers think?
Jim Fogarty
RV9a Builder
----- Original Message -----
From: Ray D. Congdon
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 8:55 AM
Subject: RV-List: Small Airport economic impact
Thought I'd relate this story;
A local FBO at a small airport that is favored by gliders (BTW, Van
has been spotted there several times!) attended a city council meeting
where the fate of the airport was discussed and it was decided not to
"Waste" any more money on airport maintence let alone finace upgrades
out of city coffers. The FBO, being a very savy businessman, came up
with an idea. He went to the local bank and ordered $4000 in $2 bills.
When they arrived he, for the next month, used the $2 bills to make
change for every transaction that he conducted at the field.
At the next city council meeting, he stood and asked how many
businessmen (and women, I'm sure, to be PC) had gotten a large flux of
$2 bills? Since this is a small town, most of the business owners were
in attendence at the meeting and many heads bobbed up and down and a
general grumbling was heard as $2 bills are a pain for small, cash
oriented businesses because they have to be handled seperately from all
other cash. The cash drawers don't have a place for them, etc...
"Well", he said, "each one of those $2 bills came from the airport...."
the topic changed as the businesses realized how much money their local
aiport put into the local economy...
Oh, yeah, visit 1L9, Parowan UT sometime. They have a nice new
taxiway, numerous new hangers, new paint on the runway, and a rather
nice little campground on the strip, all built and maintained with local
public $$$.... and don't forget to pick up a couple of $2 bills in your
change when you fuel up!
ISA-USA Inc.
Industrial Strength Answers For Telecommunications Infrastructure
Ray D. Congdon
5515 N 4400 W
Cedar City, UT 84720 USA
www.isa-usa-inc.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
4/19/2007 5:32 AM
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: User Fees and Patriotism |
Or maybe look at it this way: Anyone who uses the list to cast shame on
those who don't share their values should be ashamed.
Terry
Do not archive
_____
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of SCOTT SPENCER
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 6:49 AM
Subject: RV-List: Re: User Fees and Patriotism
Somebody else may have said this by now... I confess I've only skimmed the
postings lately. But I *must* say:
Anybody who has written to this list about user fees and has not yet written
all their elected representatives should be ashamed!
Scott
N4ZW
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: User Fees and Patriotism |
On 7:07 2007-04-19 ronlee@pcisys.net wrote:
> I once calculated that I get better MPG with my O-360 RV-6A than I do
> with my 2001 Jeep Cherokee. Oh my. A SUV driver AND pilot. Waaaa
> waaa for the global warming chicken littles. See what covered much
> of North America around 15000 years ago then come complain about
> global warming.
Like I said in my first email:
"Public perception of private aircraft owners is that we're a bunch of rich
playboys, doing whatever we want. Much like the SUV market. Sticking our
head in the sand won't make the outcry about frivolous pollution go away."
Thanks for proving my point. Please, continue to stick your head in the
sand and erect a "somebody else's problem" field around your life.
Climate change is not a myth.
-Rob
Message 13
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|
| Subject: | What I Miss at SnF |
For what it is worth, the 99's run a lot of races other than the Air Race
Classic. A lot of the local chapters run short 1 to 400 mile races on
weekends. You may want to get some of the lady pilots/wifes to look into
this. They were a lot of fun and I met some great people.
Jim C RV8-A 1/2 done
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dale Walter
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 7:10 AM
Subject: RE: RV-List: What I Miss at SnF
We should get all the interested parties together and hold our own race(s).
I bet we would have plenty of racers and spectators. I will be one. Let's
get organized! If we have it Sun n Fun week we just have it at a nearby area
that does not conflict with space.
Dale
RV6a
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Huft
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 8:34 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: What I Miss at SnF
Great post Kyle!
As one of the racers, I guess that was the ultimate reward for the hours of
building. I sure miss it too, and I miss Sun n Fun too, because I won't go
if there isn't a race.
Maybe if a few more people felt as you do, and let their feelings be known,
it could be held again.
John Huft
RV8 "Nuisance"
Kyle Boatright wrote:
> One thing that was always inspiring to me was the Sun 100. You got up
> early on the Friday (?) of the show and watched the pilots roll out
> their aircraft, all polished, with seams taped, a few "luxury" items
> like VOR antennae and tailwheel springs deleted, and race numbers
> taped on the side. They lined up from fastest to slowest, and then off
> they went.
>
> A 350 horse Venture leaving prop contrails, an RV-4 flying all the way
> down the runway in ground effect before beginning his climb, a couple
> of folks in KR-2's and Sonerais screaming after them a few minutes
> later, and last, but not least, a Kitfox or some other
> not-particularly fast airplane going out just to see how fast 80 hp
> will push a big winged, strutted Sunday flyer around a 100 mile course.
>
> Twenty minutes later, the fast airplanes are back. The Ventures, the
> Swearingens, and the Glasair III's buzzing overhead at 500' and maybe
> 350 mph, having traded a few feet of altitude for more speed. In
> another minute, the 4 cylinder Glasairs and Lancairs arrive, with the
> fast RV's and Rockets mixed in, followed by the slower RV's, which are
> "only" doing 200 mph or so as the cross the finish line. A little
> while later, the KR's and Sonerais buzz by too, followed by pokey in
> his Kitfox.
>
> And the amazing thing is that these people built all of these
> beautiful, fast airplanes in workshops and garages spread from one
> coast to another. It gave me chill bumps every time.
>
> KB
> *
>
>
> *
__________ NOD32 2205 (20070419) Information __________
Message 14
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| Subject: | Looking for advice |
Guys:
I'm going through the airworthiness inspection by the local FSDO. The guy
is coming next Monday at 0900 to complete the inspection and paperwork. He
happened by yesterday because he was in the area and had some time. He did
most of the inspection and said to put if back together and be ready to run
the engine on Monday. He has since called and said I needed an A&P sign off
for installing the Sensenich propeller on the Lycoming (certified) engine.
He called again and said that because the engine is certified, it would have
to be maintained as a certified engine by an A&P and only certified parts or
STC ed parts could be installed. I suspect this guy is more airline
knowledgeable than experimental. BTW, he is a nice guy. My question is:
does anyone know any FAA regs or materials I can gently suggest this guy to
reference? Please, ranting and ravings about the FAA won't help me, just
references/suggestions to help educate this guy. I have more to lose if we
get into a pissing contest. Thanks in advance. Dan
Do Not Archive
Message 15
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| Subject: | Looking for advice |
The easy solution, if you don't mind a 40 hour test period, is to tell
him
it's an experimental engine/prop combo and to consider it as such.
If you really want a 25 hour test period, have both the TC's for the
prop
and engine on hand. Do an AD search on your engine. Note the compliance
of
each AD. Have an A/P sign off your prop install, and ignore what he said
about maintenance, as long as he doesn't try to screw you with a
restrictive
AW cert. You may still be in a pissing contest.
Next time use an ABDER, they're much more understanding and
knowledgeable.
You might also call the EAA and ask the tech support folks for help.
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Ross
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 12:19 PM
Subject: RV-List: Looking for advice
Guys:
I'm going through the airworthiness inspection by the local FSDO. The
guy
is coming next Monday at 0900 to complete the inspection and paperwork.
He
happened by yesterday because he was in the area and had some time. He
did
most of the inspection and said to put if back together and be ready to
run
the engine on Monday. He has since called and said I needed an A&P sign
off
for installing the Sensenich propeller on the Lycoming (certified)
engine.
He called again and said that because the engine is certified, it would
have
to be maintained as a certified engine by an A&P and only certified
parts or
STC ed parts could be installed. I suspect this guy is more airline
knowledgeable than experimental. BTW, he is a nice guy. My question
is:
does anyone know any FAA regs or materials I can gently suggest this guy
to
reference? Please, ranting and ravings about the FAA won't help me,
just
references/suggestions to help educate this guy. I have more to lose if
we
get into a pissing contest. Thanks in advance. Dan
Do Not Archive
Message 16
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| Subject: | Looking for advice |
Dan,
The closer I read your message, the more I think you may have a real
problem. It's obvious that someone else at the FSDO is feeding this guy
worthless and wrong information about experimentals, otherwise he would
of
told you about the A&P, certified parts, and A&P maitenance requirement
(all
wrong bye the way) on the first visit. I think he's going to ask/tell
you to
remove the engine data plate if you want an experimental engine. Don't
remove it. Call the EAA, they have some good stuff on their website, if
you're a member. They also have an ABDER lookup. See if you can get one
and
then cancell the FSDO guy. Otherwise I fear you'll have to go over his
head.
Bruce
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Ross
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 12:19 PM
Subject: RV-List: Looking for advice
Guys:
I'm going through the airworthiness inspection by the local FSDO. The
guy
is coming next Monday at 0900 to complete the inspection and paperwork.
He
happened by yesterday because he was in the area and had some time. He
did
most of the inspection and said to put if back together and be ready to
run
the engine on Monday. He has since called and said I needed an A&P sign
off
for installing the Sensenich propeller on the Lycoming (certified)
engine.
He called again and said that because the engine is certified, it would
have
to be maintained as a certified engine by an A&P and only certified
parts or
STC ed parts could be installed. I suspect this guy is more airline
knowledgeable than experimental. BTW, he is a nice guy. My question
is:
does anyone know any FAA regs or materials I can gently suggest this guy
to
reference? Please, ranting and ravings about the FAA won't help me,
just
references/suggestions to help educate this guy. I have more to lose if
we
get into a pissing contest. Thanks in advance. Dan
Do Not Archive
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Looking for advice |
Bruce Gray wrote:
> The easy solution, if you don't mind a 40 hour test period, is to tell
> him it's an experimental engine/prop combo and to consider it as such.
> If you really want a 25 hour test period, have both the TC's for the
> prop and engine on hand. Do an AD search on your engine. Note the
> compliance of each AD. Have an A/P sign off your prop install, and
> ignore what he said about maintenance, as long as he doesn't try to
> screw you with a restrictive AW cert. You may still be in a pissing
> contest.
> Next time use an ABDER, they're much more understanding and knowledgeable.
> You might also call the EAA and ask the tech support folks for help.
>
> Bruce
> www.glasair.org
>
> -----Original Message-----
> *From:* owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Dan Ross
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 19, 2007 12:19 PM
> *To:* rv-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* RV-List: Looking for advice
>
> Guys:
>
> Im going through the airworthiness inspection by the local FSDO.
> The guy is coming next Monday at 0900 to complete the inspection
> and paperwork. He happened by yesterday because he was in the area
> and had some time. He did most of the inspection and said to put
> if back together and be ready to run the engine on Monday. He has
> since called and said I needed an A&P sign off for installing the
> Sensenich propeller on the Lycoming (certified) engine. He called
> again and said that because the engine is certified, it would have
> to be maintained as a certified engine by an A&P and only
> certified parts or STC ed parts could be installed. I suspect this
> guy is more airline knowledgeable than experimental. BTW, he is a
> nice guy. My question is: does anyone know any FAA regs or
> materials I can gently suggest this guy to reference? Please,
> ranting and ravings about the FAA wont help me, just
> references/suggestions to help educate this guy. I have more to
> lose if we get into a pissing contest. Thanks in advance. Dan
>
> Do Not Archive
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
> *
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
Sorry Bruce...ADBER stands for? I'm learning...
Carlos in AZ
RV7A - N174PP reserved
Do not archive
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Looking for advice |
Meant to type ABDER not ADBER. Sorry for the fat finger typo!
Carlos
Do not archive
//
--
Carlos Hernandez <carlosh@sec-engr.com>
Structural Engineers, LLC
2963 W. Elliot Rd. - Suite 3
Chandler, AZ 85224
Phone: 480.968.8600
Fax: 480.968.8608
www.sec-engr.com
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE
The information in this email may be confidential and/or privileged.
This email is intended to be reviewed by only the individual or
organization named above. If you are not the intended recipient or
an authorized representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby
notified that any review, dissemination or copyingof this email and
its attachments, if any, or the information contained herein is
prohibited. If you havereceived this email in error, please
immediately notify the sender by return email and delete this email
from your system.
Message 19
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| Subject: | Small Airport economic impact, $2 bills |
The FBO, being a very savy businessman, came up with an idea. He went to
the local bank and ordered $4000 in $2 bills. When they arrived he,
for the next month, used the $2 bills to make change for every
transaction that he conducted at the field.
>
> At the next city council meeting, he stood and asked how many
businessmen (and women, I'm sure, to be PC) had gotten a large flux of $2
bills? Since this is a small town, most of the business owners were in
attendence at the meeting and many heads bobbed up and down
and a general grumbling was heard as $2 bills are a pain for small, cash
oriented businesses because they have to be handled seperately from all
other cash. The cash drawers don't have a place for them,
tc... "Well", he said, "each one of those $2 bills
came from the airport...." the topic changed as the businesses realized
how much money their local aiport put into the local economy...
This should be relayed to AOPA and have them organize the same event
nationwide. But include it to have pilots who fly places pay with $2
bills.
---------------------------------------------
This message was sent using Endymion MailMan.
http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/
Message 20
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| Subject: | User Fees and Patriotism |
Rob,
Climate change "may" be occurring but not by man. The sun is
hotter, so, since all out "heat" comes from that source, I would be
inclined to believe that the sun is the source of the possible increase.
However since it is warmer in some places and cooler in some, it becomes
chicken little's "the sky is falling" for those who will not check out
facts from all possible sources. Ignorance and lazy ness breed hysteria
and politicians love it. consensus is not "fact".
Enough politics--- this is a build site!!!!
Jim
do not archive
Message 21
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OK. I normally just read quietly and keep to myself, but I have to weigh in on
this. I'm as patriotic as anyone - I support the troops (more than just lip
service), I like Toby Keith's music, I fly our county's flag at my home, I generally
support the Republican point of view, but vote the person, not the party,
I'm glad we kicked Saddam's ass, and I am a foe to anyone who wants to destroy
this country (and I have taken several oaths to that effect). I really don't
see a connection between paying these fees and my patriotism. Am I missing
something here?
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: User Fees and Patriotism |
Sigh.
Jim -- the facts aren't in dispute by anyone. Maybe you should check
*your* sources. If they all are stamped "big oil", maybe you should
take them with a grain of salt. Man-influenced climate change is
happening. That's a basic fact. What isn't known are the
absolutes. How big has the change been so far? What percentage is
due to man's influence? Will it continue? How bad is it going to
get? Those are in dispute, but not the basic facts that can all be
measured and proven.
Besides, we're running out of oil. Wouldn't you rather see solutions
now rather than later? I know I would.
As for the chicken little comment -- I'd rather take care of the
problem than bury my head in the sand.
-Joe
On Apr 19, 2007, at 2:11 PM, James H Nelson wrote:
>
> Rob,
> Climate change "may" be occurring but not by man. The sun is
> hotter, so, since all out "heat" comes from that source, I would be
> inclined to believe that the sun is the source of the possible
> increase.
> However since it is warmer in some places and cooler in some, it
> becomes
> chicken little's "the sky is falling" for those who will not
> check out
> facts from all possible sources. Ignorance and lazy ness breed
> hysteria
> and politicians love it. consensus is not "fact".
> Enough politics--- this is a build site!!!!
>
> Jim
>
>
> do not archive
Message 23
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OK. I normally just read quietly and keep to myself, but I have to
weigh in on this. I'm as patriotic as anyone - I support the troops
(more than just lip service), I like Toby Keith's music, I fly our
county's flag at my home, I generally support the Republican point of
view, but vote the person, not the party, I'm glad we kicked Saddam's
ass, and I am a foe to anyone who wants to destroy this country (and I
have taken several oaths to that effect). I really don't see a
connection between paying these fees and my patriotism. Am I missing
something here?
>>>Are you missing something? Not really. Patriotism and paying fees
have the same link as supporting the troops and supporting the war.
It's the usual linking of disconnected concepts. Just remember, if you
don't like the Presdent, you must hate America. See how it works!!!
Chuck Jensen
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Looking for advice |
Just get the paperwork signed, then follow the "correct rules", ie, as
an experimental, you can do ALL the work on it, engine and prop
included. While it would be nice if you could educate him, it is a
waste of time.
My DAR gave me the forty hour fly off time period, "So I could work on
the engine and prop."
Tom Gummo
Apple Valley, CA
Harmon Rocket-II
do not archive
http://mysite.verizon.net/t.gummo/index.html
----- Original Message -----
From: Dan Ross
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 9:19 AM
Subject: RV-List: Looking for advice
Guys:
I'm going through the airworthiness inspection by the local FSDO.
The guy is coming next Monday at 0900 to complete the inspection and
paperwork. He happened by yesterday because he was in the area and had
some time. He did most of the inspection and said to put if back
together and be ready to run the engine on Monday. He has since called
and said I needed an A&P sign off for installing the Sensenich propeller
on the Lycoming (certified) engine. He called again and said that
because the engine is certified, it would have to be maintained as a
certified engine by an A&P and only certified parts or STC ed parts
could be installed. I suspect this guy is more airline knowledgeable
than experimental. BTW, he is a nice guy. My question is: does anyone
know any FAA regs or materials I can gently suggest this guy to
reference? Please, ranting and ravings about the FAA won't help me,
just references/suggestions to help educate this guy. I have more to
lose if we get into a pissing contest. Thanks in advance. Dan
Do Not Archive
Message 25
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| Subject: | User Fees and Patriotism |
We have been "running out of oil" for my entire lifetime which extends back
to world war 2. I would have thought that by now intelligent people would
realize that we don't "run out" of natural resources; as they become more
scarce their price goes up. When that happens market forces find more or
find substitutes and adjust the price accordingly. We ran out of
$0.30/gallon gas way back in the sixties but we still have $3.50/gallon gas,
if you buy right away. Too bad about that nickel cup of coffee I used to
hear about when I was little.
My biggest concern about climate change is not the effect it will have on
the physical environment but its affect on the political environment. It is
the best excuse those who don't believe in our freedom have had to further
limit our options since the dire warnings about the coming ice age in the
early 1970's.
I will agree that the climate is changing. Everything changes. Which way, by
how much, and by what cause and over what period of time is far too steeped
in political agenda for the loudest answers to be taken seriously. We are in
danger of running ourselves off a cliff like a bunch of Lemmings by adopting
a politically correct but wrong solution to a problem that may turn out to
be just part of the long term climate fluctuations caused by factors totally
beyond our control.
Scientific reports are now "negotiated" with political interests to arrive
at so-called truth. I can hear the waves crashing on the rocks below.
But, I guess we can "feel good about ourselves" as we run off the cliff.
Terry
<snip>
Besides, we're running out of oil. Wouldn't you rather see solutions
now rather than later? I know I would.
As for the chicken little comment -- I'd rather take care of the
problem than bury my head in the sand.
-Joe
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Looking for advice |
I could be wrong on this, but I *think* what's going on is that to
maintain the certified status of engine and prop, the FAA guy is right.
As I remember, you can decertify the Lycoming by pulling the data
plate. You *might* be able to decertify it in the engine logs, I
don't know.
But the engine remains certified only so long as it follows all the
steps a certified engine must follow. This means an A&P involvement,
including what props can be installed on it and how said props are
installed.
That's how I understand things, but I'm basing my opinion off memory
from reading the books on all this before I even started building a
long long LONG time ago. I could easily be completely wrong. Maybe
someone on the list can confirm or deny what I've said.
-Joe
On Apr 19, 2007, at 4:10 PM, Tom Gummo wrote:
> Just get the paperwork signed, then follow the "correct rules", ie,
> as an experimental, you can do ALL the work on it, engine and prop
> included. While it would be nice if you could educate him, it is a
> waste of time.
>
> My DAR gave me the forty hour fly off time period, "So I could work
> on the engine and prop."
>
> Tom Gummo
> Apple Valley, CA
> Harmon Rocket-II
>
> do not archive
>
> http://mysite.verizon.net/t.gummo/index.html
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Dan Ross
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 9:19 AM
> Subject: RV-List: Looking for advice
>
> Guys:
>
>
> I=92m going through the airworthiness inspection by the local FSDO.
> The guy is coming next Monday at 0900 to complete the inspection
> and paperwork. He happened by yesterday because he was in the area
> and had some time. He did most of the inspection and said to put
> if back together and be ready to run the engine on Monday. He has
> since called and said I needed an A&P sign off for installing the
> Sensenich propeller on the Lycoming (certified) engine. He called
> again and said that because the engine is certified, it would have
> to be maintained as a certified engine by an A&P and only certified
> parts or STC ed parts could be installed. I suspect this guy is
> more airline knowledgeable than experimental. BTW, he is a nice
> guy. My question is: does anyone know any FAA regs or materials I
> can gently suggest this guy to reference? Please, ranting and
> ravings about the FAA won=92t help me, just references/suggestions to
> help educate this guy. I have more to lose if we get into a
> pissing contest. Thanks in advance. Dan
>
>
> Do Not Archive
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://
> www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-Listhref="http://
> forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> ========================
> ========================
>
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: User Fees and Patriotism |
Many years ago there was a steel plant, Kaiser Steel, located in Fontana Calif.
"That's a basic fact. What isn't known are the
absolutes. How big has the change been so far? What percentage is due to man's
influence?".
Well ALL those in the know spouted the same montra listed above.
IF we could just get rid of Kaiser Steel that was "producing 85% of the smog in
the LA basin" (reportedly a known, for sure FACT) Well they got rid of Kaiser
Steel, Did that help ? Sure. Was it the total answer that the "Experts" all agreed
would solve the problem. NO. Why not ??? Because the: "That's a basic
fact. What isn't known are the absolutes. How big has the change been so far?
What percentage is due to man's influence?" AND they still don't KNOW. KABONG
Do Not Archive
>From: Joseph Larson <jpl@showpage.org>
>Date: 2007/04/19 Thu PM 03:43:54 CDT
>To: rv-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: User Fees and Patriotism
>
>Sigh.
>
>Jim -- the facts aren't in dispute by anyone. Maybe you should check
>*your* sources. If they all are stamped "big oil", maybe you should
>take them with a grain of salt. Man-influenced climate change is
>happening. That's a basic fact. What isn't known are the
>absolutes. How big has the change been so far? What percentage is
>due to man's influence? Will it continue? How bad is it going to
>get? That's a basic fact. What isn't known are the
>absolutes. How big has the change been so far? What percentage is
>due to man's influence?>
>Besides, we're running out of oil. Wouldn't you rather see solutions
>now rather than later? I know I would.
>
>As for the chicken little comment -- I'd rather take care of the
>problem than bury my head in the sand.
>
>-Joe
>
>On Apr 19, 2007, at 2:11 PM, James H Nelson wrote:
>
>>
>> Rob,
>> Climate change "may" be occurring but not by man. The sun is
>> hotter, so, since all out "heat" comes from that source, I would be
>> inclined to believe that the sun is the source of the possible
>> increase.
>> However since it is warmer in some places and cooler in some, it
>> becomes
>> chicken little's "the sky is falling" for those who will not
>> check out
>> facts from all possible sources. Ignorance and lazy ness breed
>> hysteria
>> and politicians love it. consensus is not "fact".
>> Enough politics--- this is a build site!!!!
>>
>> Jim
>>
>>
>> do not archive
>
>
Message 28
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| Subject: | User Fees and Patriotism |
Speaking of the privatized FSS, I had an interesting experience yesterday
I'd like to share. A fellow instructor at Tipton airport (KFME - smack dab
in the middle of the DC ADIZ) was attempting to file an ADIZ flight plan
with Leesburg FSS. When he emphasized to the briefer that it was an "ADIZ"
flight plan, the briefer seemed a little hesitant. My instructor friend
stated "you know what an ADIZ flight plan is, right", to which the briefer
responded, "No, I'm new here". I actually witnessed this as I was sitting
next to him when he made the call. This is an area where you get intercepted
by F-16's if you don't follow procedures to the letter, and here's a guy at
Leesburg that doesn't have a clue about the area he's working. Pretty scary
stuff.
Ken Howell
Glenwood, Maryland
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mickey Coggins
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2007 2:58 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: User Fees and Patriotism
> ... It's
> entirely likely that the best way to approach this is to stress that
> we'll be handing over our nation's skies to a corporation. That's an
> interesting concept since the sky -- even for people who don't fly -- is
> a symbol of freedom and openness... and maybe there should be something
> in this country that isn't owned by a corporation.
I think Bob has hit the nail squarely on the head. The reason we have a
harder and harder time distinguishing between the two major parties is
that they are both serving the same corporate masters, not "we the people".
Does anyone think for a minute that we'd have privatized FSS if there
was not a large corporation making massive contributions to various
politicians of both stripes?
I don't in any way blame the corporations for this behavior - they are
obliged to act in the best interest of their shareholders, and
influencing the government in their direction with cash contributions
provides an outstanding ROI. The problem is us - we allow this to happen.
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 finishing
do not archive
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: User Fees and Patriotism |
Right. We don't know everything. So let's just do nothing? Or
let's follow the lead of some people and deny the problems exist?
Sorry, that's not my style.
We KNOW we're on the last half of the oil, give or take a couple of
billion barrels. We know how fast it's currently being used, and we
know what the rate of growth is. Take those numbers, apply the level
of math I learned in grade school, and it's not hard to figure out
what will end up happening.
What do you think will happen as oil becomes increasingly scarce? Do
you really believe it's only going to take more money to buy it? I
don't. It's going to take more wars. Is that what you want?
It's not what I want. What I want is to get off the oil-based
economy. Then we could tell everyone in the middle east to go ahead,
kill yourselves, we don't care, because we don't need anything you have.
I'm trying to do my part. I need a new car. My current one is 12
years old and is to the point where I need to put about $3000 into it
to keep it running for another year. Instead, I about 35 minutes, I
get to pick up my new Prius.
Everyone makes their choices. I choose to reduce my use of oil so
that there will be more oil available for other uses and to give us
more time to stop using it entirely. By myself, I can't do all that
much, but I do what I can.
For all practical purposes, we'll be out of oil in 40 years. I'm 44
years old and expect to still be alive. But between now and then,
demand for a scarce resource will make geopolitics increasingly
unstable.
I don't think it makes sense to go down that path.
-Joe
On Apr 19, 2007, at 5:44 PM, <jhstarn@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> Many years ago there was a steel plant, Kaiser Steel, located in
> Fontana Calif.
> "That's a basic fact. What isn't known are the
> absolutes. How big has the change been so far? What percentage is
> due to man's influence?".
> Well ALL those in the know spouted the same montra listed above.
> IF we could just get rid of Kaiser Steel that was "producing 85% of
> the smog in the LA basin" (reportedly a known, for sure FACT) Well
> they got rid of Kaiser Steel, Did that help ? Sure. Was it the
> total answer that the "Experts" all agreed would solve the problem.
> NO. Why not ??? Because the: "That's a basic fact. What isn't
> known are the absolutes. How big has the change been so far? What
> percentage is due to man's influence?" AND they still don't KNOW.
> KABONG Do Not Archive
>
>> From: Joseph Larson <jpl@showpage.org>
>> Date: 2007/04/19 Thu PM 03:43:54 CDT
>> To: rv-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: RV-List: User Fees and Patriotism
>
>>
>> Sigh.
>>
>> Jim -- the facts aren't in dispute by anyone. Maybe you should check
>> *your* sources. If they all are stamped "big oil", maybe you should
>> take them with a grain of salt. Man-influenced climate change is
>> happening. That's a basic fact. What isn't known are the
>> absolutes. How big has the change been so far? What percentage is
>> due to man's influence? Will it continue? How bad is it going to
>> get? That's a basic fact. What isn't known are the
>> absolutes. How big has the change been so far? What percentage is
>> due to man's influence?>
>> Besides, we're running out of oil. Wouldn't you rather see solutions
>> now rather than later? I know I would.
>>
>> As for the chicken little comment -- I'd rather take care of the
>> problem than bury my head in the sand.
>>
>> -Joe
>>
>> On Apr 19, 2007, at 2:11 PM, James H Nelson wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Rob,
>>> Climate change "may" be occurring but not by man. The
>>> sun is
>>> hotter, so, since all out "heat" comes from that source, I would be
>>> inclined to believe that the sun is the source of the possible
>>> increase.
>>> However since it is warmer in some places and cooler in some, it
>>> becomes
>>> chicken little's "the sky is falling" for those who will not
>>> check out
>>> facts from all possible sources. Ignorance and lazy ness breed
>>> hysteria
>>> and politicians love it. consensus is not "fact".
>>> Enough politics--- this is a build site!!!!
>>>
>>> Jim
>>>
>>>
>>> do not archive
>>
>>
>
>
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Vans vs. Bobs Fairings |
I have seen both fairings and went straight to Bob's. The Van's fairings I
saw use a male mold, which means the exterior is very rough - and that is
the part you have to finish! Bob's uses a female mold which leaves an
almost ready to paint finish. Your labor expended on Van's will exceed the
Dollars spent on Bob's.
Kelly Patterson
RV-6A N716K 139 hrs
PHX, AZ
Time: 08:18:16 PM PST US
From: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell@telus.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: vans' upper main gear intersection fairings
Hi Tom,
I can not speak from experience either for or against the Van's intersection
fairings. I have had a couple of friends express that they put a lot of
effort into making them work.
I can speak to the fit and finish of the 6A fairings made by Bob at Fairings
Etc..
His product came very close to final fit right out of the box. In general I
found his instruction sheets simple, clear and concise. I spent some time
and effort making slight modifications. I did so primarily because I tend to
be a wee bit anal about such things. Hmmm, do yah think maybe that had
something to do with the 10 year build time {[B-).
Bob's Fairings may be a bit pricey ?.. but the value was there for me. I
attribute much of the compliments I get to his product.
Starting and finishing are all part of getting there,
Jim in Kelowna - The new governor works great, serious test flying now under
way.
----- Original Message -----
From: "sarg314" <sarg314@comcast.net>
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2007 6:06 PM
Subject: RV-List: vans' upper main gear intersection fairings
>
> I just noticed the upper main gear intersection fairings in van's catalog.
> I have all my other fairings and wasn't looking forward to making these.
> But I'm building an RV-6A and the catalog identifies them only as RV-7A
> fairings. I called van's and they said they hand't tried them on a 6A. I
> would guess that they fit a 6A as well as they fit a 7A (however well that
> is).
>
> Has anyone out there with a 6A tried the Van's Upper Main gear
> intersection fairings for the 7A? Do they fit?
>
> I'm told Fairings etc. sells good ones, but they're twice as expensive.
>
> Thanks for any info.
> --
> Tom Sargent, RV-6A
>
>
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: User Fees and Patriotism |
Excellent James.....Mars has been warming for about 10 years now due to the
increased solar activity that you mentioned. I doubt our two little rovers
are to blame.
Now what is the best primer to use??? Just kidding.
Do Not Archive Tom in Ohio
----- Original Message -----
From: "James H Nelson" <rv9jim@juno.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 3:11 PM
Subject: RV-List: User Fees and Patriotism
>
> Rob,
> Climate change "may" be occurring but not by man. The sun is
> hotter, so, since all out "heat" comes from that source, I would be
> inclined to believe that the sun is the source of the possible increase.
> However since it is warmer in some places and cooler in some, it becomes
> chicken little's "the sky is falling" for those who will not check out
> facts from all possible sources. Ignorance and lazy ness breed hysteria
> and politicians love it. consensus is not "fact".
> Enough politics--- this is a build site!!!!
>
> Jim
>
>
> do not archive
>
>
>
Message 32
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|
| Subject: | Re: Vans vs. Bobs Fairings |
The vertical / horizontal stab fairing that came with my RV-7 finishing
kit, a few months ago, was beautiful. Will only require priming and
painting...no glass work at all. Van has apparently made a new mold,
for this part anyway.
Steve Eberhart
Hanging the engine April 28th
Kelly Patterson wrote:
>
> I have seen both fairings and went straight to Bob's. The Van's
> fairings I saw use a male mold, which means the exterior is very rough
> - and that is the part you have to finish! Bob's uses a female mold
> which leaves an almost ready to paint finish. Your labor expended on
> Van's will exceed the Dollars spent on Bob's.
>
> Kelly Patterson
> RV-6A N716K 139 hrs
> PHX, AZ
>
>
> Time: 08:18:16 PM PST US
> From: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell@telus.net>
> Subject: Re: RV-List: vans' upper main gear intersection fairings
>
>
> Hi Tom,
>
> I can not speak from experience either for or against the Van's
> intersection
> fairings. I have had a couple of friends express that they put a lot of
> effort into making them work.
>
> I can speak to the fit and finish of the 6A fairings made by Bob at
> Fairings
> Etc..
>
> His product came very close to final fit right out of the box. In
> general I
> found his instruction sheets simple, clear and concise. I spent some time
> and effort making slight modifications. I did so primarily because I
> tend to
> be a wee bit anal about such things. Hmmm, do yah think maybe that had
> something to do with the 10 year build time {[B-).
>
> Bob's Fairings may be a bit pricey ?.. but the value was there for me. I
> attribute much of the compliments I get to his product.
>
> Starting and finishing are all part of getting there,
>
> Jim in Kelowna - The new governor works great, serious test flying now
> under
> way.
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "sarg314" <sarg314@comcast.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2007 6:06 PM
> Subject: RV-List: vans' upper main gear intersection fairings
>
>
>>
>> I just noticed the upper main gear intersection fairings in van's
>> catalog.
>> I have all my other fairings and wasn't looking forward to making these.
>> But I'm building an RV-6A and the catalog identifies them only as RV-7A
>> fairings. I called van's and they said they hand't tried them on a
>> 6A. I
>> would guess that they fit a 6A as well as they fit a 7A (however well
>> that
>> is).
>>
>> Has anyone out there with a 6A tried the Van's Upper Main gear
>> intersection fairings for the 7A? Do they fit?
>>
>> I'm told Fairings etc. sells good ones, but they're twice as expensive.
>>
>> Thanks for any info.
>> --
>> Tom Sargent, RV-6A
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: User Fees and Patriotism |
Where are all the experts who predicted Global Cooling in the late 70's????
They wanted NASA to consider a ring of mirrors in space to heat the earth
since we were apt to be buried under 100 foot of ice as far south as
northern Alabama by 2040.
Are we warming? Absolutely and so is Mars which also a fact.
Do not Archive Tom in Ohio PS..... I like PPG K-36 Primer.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Larson" <jpl@showpage.org>
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 4:43 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: User Fees and Patriotism
>
> Sigh.
>
> Jim -- the facts aren't in dispute by anyone. Maybe you should check
> *your* sources. If they all are stamped "big oil", maybe you should take
> them with a grain of salt. Man-influenced climate change is happening.
> That's a basic fact. What isn't known are the absolutes. How big has
> the change been so far? What percentage is due to man's influence? Will
> it continue? How bad is it going to get? Those are in dispute, but not
> the basic facts that can all be measured and proven.
>
> Besides, we're running out of oil. Wouldn't you rather see solutions now
> rather than later? I know I would.
>
> As for the chicken little comment -- I'd rather take care of the problem
> than bury my head in the sand.
>
> -Joe
>
> On Apr 19, 2007, at 2:11 PM, James H Nelson wrote:
>
>>
>> Rob,
>> Climate change "may" be occurring but not by man. The sun is
>> hotter, so, since all out "heat" comes from that source, I would be
>> inclined to believe that the sun is the source of the possible increase.
>> However since it is warmer in some places and cooler in some, it becomes
>> chicken little's "the sky is falling" for those who will not check out
>> facts from all possible sources. Ignorance and lazy ness breed hysteria
>> and politicians love it. consensus is not "fact".
>> Enough politics--- this is a build site!!!!
>>
>> Jim
>>
>>
>> do not archive
>
>
>
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: User Fees and Patriotism |
Joseph Larson wrote:
>
> Right. We don't know everything. So let's just do nothing? Or
> let's follow the lead of some people and deny the problems exist?
>
> Sorry, that's not my style.
>
We were running out of oil in the early 70's remember, probably not if
you are 44 years old now. climates are changing BUT NOT BY MAN.
All of you gore supporters that buy the carbon footprint exchange
program or believe that you can use more by buying the right to use more
such as gore and edwards!!!!!! what a joke.
Sorry I am contributing to this thread that would be better discussed in
other forums but it pisses me off when people are welling to
let the government regulate our lives to the point of telling us which
light bulbs we must use etc.
do not archive
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: User Fees and Patriotism |
Another FACT the Prius has a bigger negative impact on the environment than
an SUV over its lifetime. The energy used to manufacture the highly toxic
batteries and the eventual disposal of the same is not offset by the cleaner
fuel burn.
Do some research and please don't let facts get in the way of
emotional tirades.
Do not Archive Oh...and in your case use water based primer and you'll
feel better in the morning.
Tom in Ohio
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Larson" <jpl@showpage.org>
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 7:55 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: User Fees and Patriotism
>
> Right. We don't know everything. So let's just do nothing? Or let's
> follow the lead of some people and deny the problems exist?
>
> Sorry, that's not my style.
>
> We KNOW we're on the last half of the oil, give or take a couple of
> billion barrels. We know how fast it's currently being used, and we know
> what the rate of growth is. Take those numbers, apply the level of math
> I learned in grade school, and it's not hard to figure out what will end
> up happening.
>
> What do you think will happen as oil becomes increasingly scarce? Do you
> really believe it's only going to take more money to buy it? I don't.
> It's going to take more wars. Is that what you want?
>
> It's not what I want. What I want is to get off the oil-based economy.
> Then we could tell everyone in the middle east to go ahead, kill
> yourselves, we don't care, because we don't need anything you have.
>
> I'm trying to do my part. I need a new car. My current one is 12 years
> old and is to the point where I need to put about $3000 into it to keep
> it running for another year. Instead, I about 35 minutes, I get to pick
> up my new Prius.
>
> Everyone makes their choices. I choose to reduce my use of oil so that
> there will be more oil available for other uses and to give us more time
> to stop using it entirely. By myself, I can't do all that much, but I do
> what I can.
>
> For all practical purposes, we'll be out of oil in 40 years. I'm 44
> years old and expect to still be alive. But between now and then, demand
> for a scarce resource will make geopolitics increasingly unstable.
>
> I don't think it makes sense to go down that path.
>
> -Joe
>
> On Apr 19, 2007, at 5:44 PM, <jhstarn@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> Many years ago there was a steel plant, Kaiser Steel, located in Fontana
>> Calif.
>> "That's a basic fact. What isn't known are the
>> absolutes. How big has the change been so far? What percentage is due
>> to man's influence?".
>> Well ALL those in the know spouted the same montra listed above.
>> IF we could just get rid of Kaiser Steel that was "producing 85% of the
>> smog in the LA basin" (reportedly a known, for sure FACT) Well they got
>> rid of Kaiser Steel, Did that help ? Sure. Was it the total answer that
>> the "Experts" all agreed would solve the problem. NO. Why not ???
>> Because the: "That's a basic fact. What isn't known are the absolutes.
>> How big has the change been so far? What percentage is due to man's
>> influence?" AND they still don't KNOW. KABONG Do Not Archive
>>
>>> From: Joseph Larson <jpl@showpage.org>
>>> Date: 2007/04/19 Thu PM 03:43:54 CDT
>>> To: rv-list@matronics.com
>>> Subject: Re: RV-List: User Fees and Patriotism
>>
>>>
>>> Sigh.
>>>
>>> Jim -- the facts aren't in dispute by anyone. Maybe you should check
>>> *your* sources. If they all are stamped "big oil", maybe you should
>>> take them with a grain of salt. Man-influenced climate change is
>>> happening. That's a basic fact. What isn't known are the
>>> absolutes. How big has the change been so far? What percentage is
>>> due to man's influence? Will it continue? How bad is it going to
>>> get? That's a basic fact. What isn't known are the
>>> absolutes. How big has the change been so far? What percentage is
>>> due to man's influence?>
>>> Besides, we're running out of oil. Wouldn't you rather see solutions
>>> now rather than later? I know I would.
>>>
>>> As for the chicken little comment -- I'd rather take care of the
>>> problem than bury my head in the sand.
>>>
>>> -Joe
>>>
>>> On Apr 19, 2007, at 2:11 PM, James H Nelson wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Rob,
>>>> Climate change "may" be occurring but not by man. The sun is
>>>> hotter, so, since all out "heat" comes from that source, I would be
>>>> inclined to believe that the sun is the source of the possible
>>>> increase.
>>>> However since it is warmer in some places and cooler in some, it
>>>> becomes
>>>> chicken little's "the sky is falling" for those who will not
>>>> check out
>>>> facts from all possible sources. Ignorance and lazy ness breed
>>>> hysteria
>>>> and politicians love it. consensus is not "fact".
>>>> Enough politics--- this is a build site!!!!
>>>>
>>>> Jim
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> do not archive
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 36
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| Subject: | Looking for advice |
Amature Built Designated Engineering Represenative, he can inspect,
sign-off, and issue an AW cert just like the FSDO.
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of carlos
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 2:14 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Looking for advice
Meant to type ABDER not ADBER. Sorry for the fat finger typo!
Carlos
Do not archive
//
--
Carlos Hernandez <carlosh@sec-engr.com>
Structural Engineers, LLC
2963 W. Elliot Rd. - Suite 3
Chandler, AZ 85224
Phone: 480.968.8600
Fax: 480.968.8608
www.sec-engr.com
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE
The information in this email may be confidential and/or privileged.
This email is intended to be reviewed by only the individual or
organization named above. If you are not the intended recipient or
an authorized representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby
notified that any review, dissemination or copyingof this email and
its attachments, if any, or the information contained herein is
prohibited. If you havereceived this email in error, please
immediately notify the sender by return email and delete this email
from your system.
Message 37
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|
| Subject: | Re: Vans vs. Bobs Fairings |
The gear leg to fuselage intersection fairings I got from Vans, are unusable
junk. I'll have to throw them away and order a decent set from
Fairings-Etc. Van does well with metal, but his (actually a sub contractor)
fiberglass parts are not up to par for a company of this caliber.
On a related subject, I've enjoyed looking at close to 100 or more beautiful
RV's at Sun N'Fun this week. What surprised me somewhat was that I only saw
one RV with Sam James cowlings/plenums. Although I'm not flying yet, it
seemed like a "no brainer" to delete the Vans cowls from my firewall forward
kit, and order the Sam James cowls. Sam claims better cooling and 10-12 MPH
faster with his cowls. Is there something I'm missing here?
Garry Stout
RV-7A "almost" finished
Zephyrhills Florida
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Eberhart" <steve@newtech.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 8:52 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Vans vs. Bobs Fairings
>
> The vertical / horizontal stab fairing that came with my RV-7 finishing
> kit, a few months ago, was beautiful. Will only require priming and
> painting...no glass work at all. Van has apparently made a new mold, for
> this part anyway.
>
> Steve Eberhart
> Hanging the engine April 28th
>
> Kelly Patterson wrote:
>>
>> I have seen both fairings and went straight to Bob's. The Van's fairings
>> I saw use a male mold, which means the exterior is very rough - and that
>> is the part you have to finish! Bob's uses a female mold which leaves an
>> almost ready to paint finish. Your labor expended on Van's will exceed
>> the Dollars spent on Bob's.
>>
>> Kelly Patterson
>> RV-6A N716K 139 hrs
>> PHX, AZ
>>
>>
>> Time: 08:18:16 PM PST US
>> From: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell@telus.net>
>> Subject: Re: RV-List: vans' upper main gear intersection fairings
>>
>>
>> Hi Tom,
>>
>> I can not speak from experience either for or against the Van's
>> intersection
>> fairings. I have had a couple of friends express that they put a lot of
>> effort into making them work.
>>
>> I can speak to the fit and finish of the 6A fairings made by Bob at
>> Fairings
>> Etc..
>>
>> His product came very close to final fit right out of the box. In general
>> I
>> found his instruction sheets simple, clear and concise. I spent some time
>> and effort making slight modifications. I did so primarily because I tend
>> to
>> be a wee bit anal about such things. Hmmm, do yah think maybe that had
>> something to do with the 10 year build time {[B-).
>>
>> Bob's Fairings may be a bit pricey ?.. but the value was there for me. I
>> attribute much of the compliments I get to his product.
>>
>> Starting and finishing are all part of getting there,
>>
>> Jim in Kelowna - The new governor works great, serious test flying now
>> under
>> way.
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "sarg314" <sarg314@comcast.net>
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2007 6:06 PM
>> Subject: RV-List: vans' upper main gear intersection fairings
>>
>>
>>>
>>> I just noticed the upper main gear intersection fairings in van's
>>> catalog.
>>> I have all my other fairings and wasn't looking forward to making these.
>>> But I'm building an RV-6A and the catalog identifies them only as RV-7A
>>> fairings. I called van's and they said they hand't tried them on a 6A.
>>> I
>>> would guess that they fit a 6A as well as they fit a 7A (however well
>>> that
>>> is).
>>>
>>> Has anyone out there with a 6A tried the Van's Upper Main gear
>>> intersection fairings for the 7A? Do they fit?
>>>
>>> I'm told Fairings etc. sells good ones, but they're twice as expensive.
>>>
>>> Thanks for any info.
>>> --
>>> Tom Sargent, RV-6A
>
>
>
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: Vans vs. Bobs Fairings |
maybe the claim is not much more than a claim but the actual extra work required
to make them work is an undeniable fact and just not worth it?
I really don't know but I've never heard any other RV pilot in person mention that
upon further review they wish they had gone that route. They do look cool,
I'll admit, but if it they were really that much better performance wise then
I'd think Van himself would have been tempted to try the style on at least just
one plane just for the heck of it after all these years.
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Garry" <garrys@tampabay.rr.com>
>
> The gear leg to fuselage intersection fairings I got from Vans, are unusable
> junk. I'll have to throw them away and order a decent set from
> Fairings-Etc. Van does well with metal, but his (actually a sub contractor)
> fiberglass parts are not up to par for a company of this caliber.
>
> On a related subject, I've enjoyed looking at close to 100 or more beautiful
> RV's at Sun N'Fun this week. What surprised me somewhat was that I only saw
> one RV with Sam James cowlings/plenums. Although I'm not flying yet, it
> seemed like a "no brainer" to delete the Vans cowls from my firewall forward
> kit, and order the Sam James cowls. Sam claims better cooling and 10-12 MPH
> faster with his cowls. Is there something I'm missing here?
>
> Garry Stout
> RV-7A "almost" finished
> Zephyrhills Florida
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Eberhart"
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 8:52 PM
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Vans vs. Bobs Fairings
>
>
> >
> > The vertical / horizontal stab fairing that came with my RV-7 finishing
> > kit, a few months ago, was beautiful. Will only require priming and
> > painting...no glass work at all. Van has apparently made a new mold, for
> > this part anyway.
> >
> > Steve Eberhart
> > Hanging the engine April 28th
> >
> > Kelly Patterson wrote:
> >>
> >> I have seen both fairings and went straight to Bob's. The Van's fairings
> >> I saw use a male mold, which means the exterior is very rough - and that
> >> is the part you have to finish! Bob's uses a female mold which leaves an
> >> almost ready to paint finish. Your labor expended on Van's will exceed
> >> the Dollars spent on Bob's.
> >>
> >> Kelly Patterson
> >> RV-6A N716K 139 hrs
> >> PHX, AZ
> >>
> >>
> >> Time: 08:18:16 PM PST US
> >> From: "Jim Jewell"
> >> Subject: Re: RV-List: vans' upper main gear intersection fairings
> >>
> >>
> >> Hi Tom,
> >>
> >> I can not speak from experience either for or against the Van's
> >> intersection
> >> fairings. I have had a couple of friends express that they put a lot of
> >> effort into making them work.
> >>
> >> I can speak to the fit and finish of the 6A fairings made by Bob at
> >> Fairings
> >> Etc..
> >>
> >> His product came very close to final fit right out of the box. In general
> >> I
> >> found his instruction sheets simple, clear and concise. I spent some time
> >> and effort making slight modifications. I did so primarily because I tend
> >> to
> >> be a wee bit anal about such things. Hmmm, do yah think maybe that had
> >> something to do with the 10 year build time {[B-).
> >>
> >> Bob's Fairings may be a bit pricey ?.. but the value was there for me. I
> >> attribute much of the compliments I get to his product.
> >>
> >> Starting and finishing are all part of getting there,
> >>
> >> Jim in Kelowna - The new governor works great, serious test flying now
> >> under
> >> way.
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "sarg314"
> >> Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2007 6:06 PM
> >> Subject: RV-List: vans' upper main gear intersection fairings
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>> I just noticed the upper main gear intersection fairings in van's
> >>> catalog.
> >>> I have all my other fairings and wasn't looking forward to making these.
> >>> But I'm building an RV-6A and the catalog identifies them only as RV-7A
> >>> fairings. I called van's and they said they hand't tried them on a 6A.
> >>> I
> >>> would guess that they fit a 6A as well as they fit a 7A (however well
> >>> that
> >>> is).
> >>>
> >>> Has anyone out there with a 6A tried the Van's Upper Main gear
> >>> intersection fairings for the 7A? Do they fit?
> >>>
> >>> I'm told Fairings etc. sells good ones, but they're twice as expensive.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks for any info.
> >>> --
> >>> Tom Sargent, RV-6A
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
<html><body>
<DIV>maybe the claim is not much more than a claim but the actual extra work required
to make them work is an undeniable fact and just not worth it?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I really don't know but I've never heard any other RV pilot in person mention
that upon further review they wish they had gone that route. They do
look cool, I'll admit, but if it they were really that much better performance
wise then I'd think Van himself would have been tempted to try the style
on at least just one plane just for the heck of it after all these years.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px
solid">-------------- Original message -------------- <BR>From: "Garry" <garrys@tampabay.rr.com>
<BR><BR>> --> RV-List message posted by: "Garry"
<GARRYS@TAMPABAY.RR.COM><BR>> <BR>> The gear leg to fuselage intersection
fairings I got from Vans, are unusable <BR>> junk. I'll have to throw
them away and order a decent set from <BR>> Fairings-Etc. Van does well with
metal, but his (actually a sub contractor) <BR>> fiberglass parts are not
up to par for a company of this caliber. <BR>> <BR>> On a related subject,
I've enjoyed looking at close to 100 or more beautiful <BR>> RV's at Sun
N'Fun this week. What surprised me somewhat was that I only saw <BR>> one
RV with Sam James cowlings/plenums. Although I'm not flying yet, it <BR>>
seemed like a "no brainer" to delete the Vans cowls from my firewall forward
<BR>> kit, and order the Sam James cowls. Sam clai
ms bet
ter cooling and 10-12 MPH <BR>> faster with his cowls. Is there something I'm
missing here? <BR>> <BR>> Garry Stout <BR>> RV-7A "almost" finished
<BR>> Zephyrhills Florida <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> ----- Original
Message ----- <BR>> From: "Steve Eberhart" <STEVE@NEWTECH.COM><BR>> To:
<RV-LIST@MATRONICS.COM><BR>> Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 8:52 PM <BR>>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Vans vs. Bobs Fairings <BR>> <BR>> <BR>>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Steve Eberhart <STEVE@NEWTECH.COM><BR>>
> <BR>> > The vertical / horizontal stab fairing that came with
my RV-7 finishing <BR>> > kit, a few months ago, was beautiful. Will only
require priming and <BR>> > painting...no glass work at all. Van has
apparently made a new mold, for <BR>> > this part anyway. <BR>> >
<BR>> > Steve Eberhart <BR>> > Hanging the engine April 28th <BR>>
> <BR>> > Kelly Patterson wrote: <BR>&g
t; >
;> --> RV-List message posted by: "Kelly Patterson" <KBOB@COX.NET><BR>>
>> <BR>> >> I have seen both fairings and went straight to Bob's.
The Van's fairings <BR>> >> I saw use a male mold, which means the
exterior is very rough - and that <BR>> >> is the part you have to
finish! Bob's uses a female mold which leaves an <BR>> >> almost ready
to paint finish. Your labor expended on Van's will exceed <BR>> >>
the Dollars spent on Bob's. <BR>> >> <BR>> >> Kelly Patterson
<BR>> >> RV-6A N716K 139 hrs <BR>> >> PHX, AZ <BR>> >>
<BR>> >> <BR>> >> Time: 08:18:16 PM PST US <BR>> >>
From: "Jim Jewell" <JJEWELL@TELUS.NET><BR>> >> Subject: Re: RV-List:
vans' upper main gear intersection fairings <BR>> >> <BR>>
>> <BR>> >> Hi Tom, <BR>> >> <BR>> >> I can
not speak from experience either for or against the V
an's <
BR>> >> intersection <BR>> >> fairings. I have had a couple of
friends express that they put a lot of <BR>> >> effort into making
them work. <BR>> >> <BR>> >> I can speak to the fit and finish
of the 6A fairings made by Bob at <BR>> >> Fairings <BR>> >>
Etc.. <BR>> >> <BR>> >> His product came very close to final
fit right out of the box. In general <BR>> >> I <BR>> >>
found his instruction sheets simple, clear and concise. I spent some time <BR>>
>> and effort making slight modifications. I did so primarily because
I tend <BR>> >> to <BR>> >> be a wee bit anal about such
things. Hmmm, do yah think maybe that had <BR>> >> something to do
with the 10 year build time {[B-). <BR>> >> <BR>> >> Bob's Fairings
may be a bit pricey ?.. but the value was there for me. I <BR>> >>
attribute much of the compliments I get to his
produc
t. <BR>> >> <BR>> >> Starting and finishing are all part of getting
there, <BR>> >> <BR>> >> Jim in Kelowna - The new governor
works great, serious test flying now <BR>> >> under <BR>> >>
way. <BR>> >> <BR>> >> <BR>> >> ----- Original
Message ----- From: "sarg314" <SARG314@COMCAST.NET><BR>> >> Sent:
Wednesday, April 18, 2007 6:06 PM <BR>> >> Subject: RV-List: vans' upper
main gear intersection fairings <BR>> >> <BR>> >> <BR>>
>>> <BR>> >>> I just noticed the upper main gear intersection
fairings in van's <BR>> >>> catalog. <BR>> >>>
I have all my other fairings and wasn't looking forward to making these. <BR>>
>>> But I'm building an RV-6A and the catalog identifies them only
as RV-7A <BR>> >>> fairings. I called van's and they said they
hand't tried them on a 6A. <BR>> >>> I <B
R>>
toshar
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre></body></html>
Message 39
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|
| Subject: | Phoenix April 23-26 |
I am flying to Phoenix, AZ on April 23 through 26 to
do some electrical work for a friend on his new house.
Yes, he is flying me from MI to AZ. Anyways, I might
be available eves or Wednesday and Thursday all day,
don't know exactly for sure to visit some RV'ers or
maybe go flying. I will have some cash for fuel. If
you would like some company from a po' boy from MI,
let me know. I would like to meet some RV'ers out
west. BTW, he lives 20 minutes NW of Sky Harbor Intl.
Dave Nellis
7A Slider
N410DN (Res.)
__________________________________________________
Message 40
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| Subject: | User Fees and Patriotism |
Another fact of using an electric car, is what natural resource is used
to create the electricity to charge the "environmentally" friendly
batteries? Trading one natural resource for another is just following
the marketing hype and buying a car that is way overpriced for what you
get because it is "green"
Dan
N289DT
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom & Cathy
Ervin
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 9:14 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: User Fees and Patriotism
<tcervin@valkyrie.net>
Another FACT the Prius has a bigger negative impact on the environment
than
an SUV over its lifetime. The energy used to manufacture the highly
toxic
batteries and the eventual disposal of the same is not offset by the
cleaner
fuel burn.
Do some research and please don't let facts get in the way of
emotional tirades.
Do not Archive Oh...and in your case use water based primer and you'll
feel better in the morning.
Tom in Ohio
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Larson" <jpl@showpage.org>
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 7:55 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: User Fees and Patriotism
>
> Right. We don't know everything. So let's just do nothing? Or
let's
> follow the lead of some people and deny the problems exist?
>
> Sorry, that's not my style.
>
> We KNOW we're on the last half of the oil, give or take a couple of
> billion barrels. We know how fast it's currently being used, and we
know
> what the rate of growth is. Take those numbers, apply the level of
math
> I learned in grade school, and it's not hard to figure out what will
end
> up happening.
>
> What do you think will happen as oil becomes increasingly scarce? Do
you
> really believe it's only going to take more money to buy it? I
don't.
> It's going to take more wars. Is that what you want?
>
> It's not what I want. What I want is to get off the oil-based
economy.
> Then we could tell everyone in the middle east to go ahead, kill
> yourselves, we don't care, because we don't need anything you have.
>
> I'm trying to do my part. I need a new car. My current one is 12
years
> old and is to the point where I need to put about $3000 into it to
keep
> it running for another year. Instead, I about 35 minutes, I get to
pick
> up my new Prius.
>
> Everyone makes their choices. I choose to reduce my use of oil so
that
> there will be more oil available for other uses and to give us more
time
> to stop using it entirely. By myself, I can't do all that much, but
I do
> what I can.
>
> For all practical purposes, we'll be out of oil in 40 years. I'm 44
> years old and expect to still be alive. But between now and then,
demand
> for a scarce resource will make geopolitics increasingly unstable.
>
> I don't think it makes sense to go down that path.
>
> -Joe
>
> On Apr 19, 2007, at 5:44 PM, <jhstarn@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> Many years ago there was a steel plant, Kaiser Steel, located in
Fontana
>> Calif.
>> "That's a basic fact. What isn't known are the
>> absolutes. How big has the change been so far? What percentage is
due
>> to man's influence?".
>> Well ALL those in the know spouted the same montra listed above.
>> IF we could just get rid of Kaiser Steel that was "producing 85% of
the
>> smog in the LA basin" (reportedly a known, for sure FACT) Well they
got
>> rid of Kaiser Steel, Did that help ? Sure. Was it the total answer
that
>> the "Experts" all agreed would solve the problem. NO. Why not ???
>> Because the: "That's a basic fact. What isn't known are the
absolutes.
>> How big has the change been so far? What percentage is due to man's
>> influence?" AND they still don't KNOW. KABONG Do Not Archive
>>
>>> From: Joseph Larson <jpl@showpage.org>
>>> Date: 2007/04/19 Thu PM 03:43:54 CDT
>>> To: rv-list@matronics.com
>>> Subject: Re: RV-List: User Fees and Patriotism
>>
>>>
>>> Sigh.
>>>
>>> Jim -- the facts aren't in dispute by anyone. Maybe you should
check
>>> *your* sources. If they all are stamped "big oil", maybe you should
>>> take them with a grain of salt. Man-influenced climate change is
>>> happening. That's a basic fact. What isn't known are the
>>> absolutes. How big has the change been so far? What percentage is
>>> due to man's influence? Will it continue? How bad is it going to
>>> get? That's a basic fact. What isn't known are the
>>> absolutes. How big has the change been so far? What percentage is
>>> due to man's influence?>
>>> Besides, we're running out of oil. Wouldn't you rather see
solutions
>>> now rather than later? I know I would.
>>>
>>> As for the chicken little comment -- I'd rather take care of the
>>> problem than bury my head in the sand.
>>>
>>> -Joe
>>>
>>> On Apr 19, 2007, at 2:11 PM, James H Nelson wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Rob,
>>>> Climate change "may" be occurring but not by man. The sun
is
>>>> hotter, so, since all out "heat" comes from that source, I would be
>>>> inclined to believe that the sun is the source of the possible
>>>> increase.
>>>> However since it is warmer in some places and cooler in some, it
>>>> becomes
>>>> chicken little's "the sky is falling" for those who will not
>>>> check out
>>>> facts from all possible sources. Ignorance and lazy ness breed
>>>> hysteria
>>>> and politicians love it. consensus is not "fact".
>>>> Enough politics--- this is a build site!!!!
>>>>
>>>> Jim
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> do not archive
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 41
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|
| Subject: | Re: User Fees and Patriotism |
Jerry, do some research. Look up "Hubbert's Peak". Read about it.
Then get back to me.
Here's a quick link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubbert%27s_peak
And here's a book at Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/Hubberts-Peak-Impending-World-Shortage/dp/
0691116253/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-7341198-9415216?
ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1177035715&sr=8-1
This book was recommended to me by a geology professor at the
University of Minnesota, a person I studied under when getting my
undergrad degree back in the '80s. He was one of the best college
professors I had.
You don't have to believe anything I say. You don't have to believe
anything the author of this book says. If you think he's wrong, look
at his evidence and point out what's wrong with it. Tell me where
the thinking is flawed. I can't poke holes in it. Neither can
people a heck of a lot smarter than I am about this stuff. Maybe you
can. Would love to hear your arguments, based on facts and hard
science, not blind opinion.
-J
On Apr 19, 2007, at 8:08 PM, Jerry Springer wrote:
>
> Joseph Larson wrote:
>
>>
>> Right. We don't know everything. So let's just do nothing? Or
>> let's follow the lead of some people and deny the problems exist?
>>
>> Sorry, that's not my style.
>>
> We were running out of oil in the early 70's remember, probably not
> if you are 44 years old now. climates are changing BUT NOT BY MAN.
> All of you gore supporters that buy the carbon footprint exchange
> program or believe that you can use more by buying the right to
> use more
> such as gore and edwards!!!!!! what a joke.
>
> Sorry I am contributing to this thread that would be better
> discussed in other forums but it pisses me off when people are
> welling to
> let the government regulate our lives to the point of telling us
> which light bulbs we must use etc.
>
> do not archive
>
>
Message 42
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|
| Subject: | Re: User Fees and Patriotism |
Yeah, I've heard that argument. It's interesting but never is backed
up by real science.
-J
On Apr 19, 2007, at 8:14 PM, Tom & Cathy Ervin wrote:
> <tcervin@valkyrie.net>
>
> Another FACT the Prius has a bigger negative impact on the
> environment than an SUV over its lifetime. The energy used to
> manufacture the highly toxic batteries and the eventual disposal of
> the same is not offset by the cleaner fuel burn.
> Do some research and please don't let facts get in the way of
> emotional tirades.
>
> Do not Archive Oh...and in your case use water based primer
> and you'll feel better in the morning. Tom in Ohio
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph Larson" <jpl@showpage.org>
> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 7:55 PM
> Subject: Re: RV-List: User Fees and Patriotism
>
>
>>
>> Right. We don't know everything. So let's just do nothing? Or
>> let's follow the lead of some people and deny the problems exist?
>>
>> Sorry, that's not my style.
>>
>> We KNOW we're on the last half of the oil, give or take a couple
>> of billion barrels. We know how fast it's currently being used,
>> and we know what the rate of growth is. Take those numbers,
>> apply the level of math I learned in grade school, and it's not
>> hard to figure out what will end up happening.
>>
>> What do you think will happen as oil becomes increasingly scarce?
>> Do you really believe it's only going to take more money to buy
>> it? I don't. It's going to take more wars. Is that what you want?
>>
>> It's not what I want. What I want is to get off the oil-based
>> economy. Then we could tell everyone in the middle east to go
>> ahead, kill yourselves, we don't care, because we don't need
>> anything you have.
>>
>> I'm trying to do my part. I need a new car. My current one is 12
>> years old and is to the point where I need to put about $3000 into
>> it to keep it running for another year. Instead, I about 35
>> minutes, I get to pick up my new Prius.
>>
>> Everyone makes their choices. I choose to reduce my use of oil
>> so that there will be more oil available for other uses and to
>> give us more time to stop using it entirely. By myself, I can't
>> do all that much, but I do what I can.
>>
>> For all practical purposes, we'll be out of oil in 40 years. I'm
>> 44 years old and expect to still be alive. But between now and
>> then, demand for a scarce resource will make geopolitics
>> increasingly unstable.
>>
>> I don't think it makes sense to go down that path.
>>
>> -Joe
>>
>> On Apr 19, 2007, at 5:44 PM, <jhstarn@verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Many years ago there was a steel plant, Kaiser Steel, located in
>>> Fontana Calif.
>>> "That's a basic fact. What isn't known are the
>>> absolutes. How big has the change been so far? What percentage
>>> is due to man's influence?".
>>> Well ALL those in the know spouted the same montra listed above.
>>> IF we could just get rid of Kaiser Steel that was "producing 85%
>>> of the smog in the LA basin" (reportedly a known, for sure FACT)
>>> Well they got rid of Kaiser Steel, Did that help ? Sure. Was it
>>> the total answer that the "Experts" all agreed would solve the
>>> problem. NO. Why not ??? Because the: "That's a basic fact.
>>> What isn't known are the absolutes. How big has the change been
>>> so far? What percentage is due to man's influence?" AND they
>>> still don't KNOW. KABONG Do Not Archive
>>>
>>>> From: Joseph Larson <jpl@showpage.org>
>>>> Date: 2007/04/19 Thu PM 03:43:54 CDT
>>>> To: rv-list@matronics.com
>>>> Subject: Re: RV-List: User Fees and Patriotism
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sigh.
>>>>
>>>> Jim -- the facts aren't in dispute by anyone. Maybe you should
>>>> check
>>>> *your* sources. If they all are stamped "big oil", maybe you
>>>> should
>>>> take them with a grain of salt. Man-influenced climate change is
>>>> happening. That's a basic fact. What isn't known are the
>>>> absolutes. How big has the change been so far? What percentage is
>>>> due to man's influence? Will it continue? How bad is it going to
>>>> get? That's a basic fact. What isn't known are the
>>>> absolutes. How big has the change been so far? What percentage is
>>>> due to man's influence?>
>>>> Besides, we're running out of oil. Wouldn't you rather see
>>>> solutions
>>>> now rather than later? I know I would.
>>>>
>>>> As for the chicken little comment -- I'd rather take care of the
>>>> problem than bury my head in the sand.
>>>>
>>>> -Joe
>>>>
>>>> On Apr 19, 2007, at 2:11 PM, James H Nelson wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Rob,
>>>>> Climate change "may" be occurring but not by man. The
>>>>> sun is
>>>>> hotter, so, since all out "heat" comes from that source, I
>>>>> would be
>>>>> inclined to believe that the sun is the source of the possible
>>>>> increase.
>>>>> However since it is warmer in some places and cooler in some, it
>>>>> becomes
>>>>> chicken little's "the sky is falling" for those who will not
>>>>> check out
>>>>> facts from all possible sources. Ignorance and lazy ness breed
>>>>> hysteria
>>>>> and politicians love it. consensus is not "fact".
>>>>> Enough politics--- this is a build site!!!!
>>>>>
>>>>> Jim
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> do not archive
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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|
Anyone have any experience with pedal plane plans? I have seen the ones in EAA.
I have not seen plans for a Bonanza or a RV. Anyone build them near Atlanta?
I am thinking about building one for my Grandson for Christmas.
Painting Bonanza magnesium this weekend.
Sherman Butler
RV-7a Wings
Idaho Falls
---------------------------------
Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.
Message 44
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| Subject: | User fees and patriotism |
Man, I'm getting too old for this stuff. You guys are killing me. This idea of
user fees sucks. Period. I don't know what global warming has to do with the
user fee idea, and neither do you, I think. If you like the idea of user fees,
wait and see. I figure I pay a few bucks in taxes for each of the hundred
or so hours I fly each year. The airlines fly millions of hours a year and
pay millions of dollars. Sounds fair to me. They pass the costs on to the passengers
- as it should be. And they use and wear and tear on the system a WHOLE
lot more than I do. This user fee thing is just the politicos bowing to big
business. It's a scam and a sham. Those of you who think it's a good idea
- remember I (and countless others) told you so. And by the way, I feel I pay
my fair share and I don't mind that. The airlines just need to pay their "fair"
share. Under the present system, they do. Remember,these are the corporations
who got 13 billion dollars after 9/11 to help them stay afloat. And some
went bankrupt anyway. I say, let em go bankrupt. Someone like Ted Turner
or Ross Perot will buy those airplanes and start a more efficient way of doing
business. A huge detriment to the economy - I doubt it. It would even out in
the long run. Capitalism - it's a great concept. Politicians tend to screw
it up.
Message 45
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| Subject: | Looking for advice |
Bruce,
I'm guessing you are actually talking about an AB DAR. Armature Built Designated
Airworthiness Representative. Or at least I have never heard of an ABDER.
More about the program here (EAA membership required)....
http://members.eaa.org/home/govt/help/ab_dar.asp
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Gray
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 8:26 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Looking for advice
Amature Built Designated Engineering Represenative, he can inspect,
sign-off, and issue an AW cert just like the FSDO.
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of carlos
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 2:14 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Looking for advice
Meant to type ABDER not ADBER. Sorry for the fat finger typo!
Carlos
Do not archive
//
--
Carlos Hernandez <carlosh@sec-engr.com>
Structural Engineers, LLC
2963 W. Elliot Rd. - Suite 3
Chandler, AZ 85224
Phone: 480.968.8600
Fax: 480.968.8608
www.sec-engr.com
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE
The information in this email may be confidential and/or privileged.
This email is intended to be reviewed by only the individual or
organization named above. If you are not the intended recipient or
an authorized representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby
notified that any review, dissemination or copyingof this email and
its attachments, if any, or the information contained herein is
prohibited. If you havereceived this email in error, please
immediately notify the sender by return email and delete this email
from your system.
Message 46
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| Subject: | User Fees and Patriotism |
There are other ways to generate electicity than burning coal and fossil
fuels.
Surprising the most to me on this thread is the black and white on the
issue. It is proven over and over that man messes up ecosystems. To
what extent and such is debateable and still to be proven conclusively.
All and all I would suggest that even just try to be a bit more tolerant
of ideas and maybe, with the same creative juices that solve airplane
problems, we can work to a better place. Or we can continue to deny
everything and admit nothing. I would choose to look at things, have
conversations, and work to a better place. What that is, is still to be
determined, but there are ways to make things better, with and without
regulation. Oil is key to our world. Whether or not folks want to
admit it apparently will not change that fact. Oil people control lots,
and they aren't in the government. Guess you can choose your master.....
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lloyd, Daniel
R.
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 9:24 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: User Fees and Patriotism
Another fact of using an electric car, is what natural resource is used
to create the electricity to charge the "environmentally" friendly
batteries? Trading one natural resource for another is just following
the marketing hype and buying a car that is way overpriced for what you
get because it is "green"
Dan
N289DT
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom & Cathy
Ervin
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 9:14 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: User Fees and Patriotism
<tcervin@valkyrie.net>
Another FACT the Prius has a bigger negative impact on the environment
than
an SUV over its lifetime. The energy used to manufacture the highly
toxic
batteries and the eventual disposal of the same is not offset by the
cleaner
fuel burn.
Do some research and please don't let facts get in the way of
emotional tirades.
Do not Archive Oh...and in your case use water based primer and you'll
feel better in the morning.
Tom in Ohio
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Larson" <jpl@showpage.org>
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 7:55 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: User Fees and Patriotism
>
> Right. We don't know everything. So let's just do nothing? Or
let's
> follow the lead of some people and deny the problems exist?
>
> Sorry, that's not my style.
>
> We KNOW we're on the last half of the oil, give or take a couple of
> billion barrels. We know how fast it's currently being used, and we
know
> what the rate of growth is. Take those numbers, apply the level of
math
> I learned in grade school, and it's not hard to figure out what will
end
> up happening.
>
> What do you think will happen as oil becomes increasingly scarce? Do
you
> really believe it's only going to take more money to buy it? I
don't.
> It's going to take more wars. Is that what you want?
>
> It's not what I want. What I want is to get off the oil-based
economy.
> Then we could tell everyone in the middle east to go ahead, kill
> yourselves, we don't care, because we don't need anything you have.
>
> I'm trying to do my part. I need a new car. My current one is 12
years
> old and is to the point where I need to put about $3000 into it to
keep
> it running for another year. Instead, I about 35 minutes, I get to
pick
> up my new Prius.
>
> Everyone makes their choices. I choose to reduce my use of oil so
that
> there will be more oil available for other uses and to give us more
time
> to stop using it entirely. By myself, I can't do all that much, but
I do
> what I can.
>
> For all practical purposes, we'll be out of oil in 40 years. I'm 44
> years old and expect to still be alive. But between now and then,
demand
> for a scarce resource will make geopolitics increasingly unstable.
>
> I don't think it makes sense to go down that path.
>
> -Joe
>
> On Apr 19, 2007, at 5:44 PM, <jhstarn@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> Many years ago there was a steel plant, Kaiser Steel, located in
Fontana
>> Calif.
>> "That's a basic fact. What isn't known are the
>> absolutes. How big has the change been so far? What percentage is
due
>> to man's influence?".
>> Well ALL those in the know spouted the same montra listed above.
>> IF we could just get rid of Kaiser Steel that was "producing 85% of
the
>> smog in the LA basin" (reportedly a known, for sure FACT) Well they
got
>> rid of Kaiser Steel, Did that help ? Sure. Was it the total answer
that
>> the "Experts" all agreed would solve the problem. NO. Why not ???
>> Because the: "That's a basic fact. What isn't known are the
absolutes.
>> How big has the change been so far? What percentage is due to man's
>> influence?" AND they still don't KNOW. KABONG Do Not Archive
>>
>>> From: Joseph Larson <jpl@showpage.org>
>>> Date: 2007/04/19 Thu PM 03:43:54 CDT
>>> To: rv-list@matronics.com
>>> Subject: Re: RV-List: User Fees and Patriotism
>>
>>>
>>> Sigh.
>>>
>>> Jim -- the facts aren't in dispute by anyone. Maybe you should
check
>>> *your* sources. If they all are stamped "big oil", maybe you should
>>> take them with a grain of salt. Man-influenced climate change is
>>> happening. That's a basic fact. What isn't known are the
>>> absolutes. How big has the change been so far? What percentage is
>>> due to man's influence? Will it continue? How bad is it going to
>>> get? That's a basic fact. What isn't known are the
>>> absolutes. How big has the change been so far? What percentage is
>>> due to man's influence?>
>>> Besides, we're running out of oil. Wouldn't you rather see
solutions
>>> now rather than later? I know I would.
>>>
>>> As for the chicken little comment -- I'd rather take care of the
>>> problem than bury my head in the sand.
>>>
>>> -Joe
>>>
>>> On Apr 19, 2007, at 2:11 PM, James H Nelson wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Rob,
>>>> Climate change "may" be occurring but not by man. The sun
is
>>>> hotter, so, since all out "heat" comes from that source, I would be
>>>> inclined to believe that the sun is the source of the possible
>>>> increase.
>>>> However since it is warmer in some places and cooler in some, it
>>>> becomes
>>>> chicken little's "the sky is falling" for those who will not
>>>> check out
>>>> facts from all possible sources. Ignorance and lazy ness breed
>>>> hysteria
>>>> and politicians love it. consensus is not "fact".
>>>> Enough politics--- this is a build site!!!!
>>>>
>>>> Jim
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> do not archive
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 47
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| Subject: | Looking for advice |
Yes, I was. I'm getting to old for all these acronyms. Heck, I don't even
have an EFIS and fly a plastic airplane.
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder (Michael
Sausen)
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 10:41 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Looking for advice
<rvbuilder@sausen.net>
Bruce,
I'm guessing you are actually talking about an AB DAR. Armature Built
Designated Airworthiness Representative. Or at least I have never heard of
an ABDER. More about the program here (EAA membership required)....
http://members.eaa.org/home/govt/help/ab_dar.asp
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Gray
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 8:26 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Looking for advice
Amature Built Designated Engineering Represenative, he can inspect,
sign-off, and issue an AW cert just like the FSDO.
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of carlos
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 2:14 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Looking for advice
Meant to type ABDER not ADBER. Sorry for the fat finger typo!
Carlos
Do not archive
//
--
Carlos Hernandez <carlosh@sec-engr.com>
Structural Engineers, LLC
2963 W. Elliot Rd. - Suite 3
Chandler, AZ 85224
Phone: 480.968.8600
Fax: 480.968.8608
www.sec-engr.com
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE
The information in this email may be confidential and/or privileged.
This email is intended to be reviewed by only the individual or
organization named above. If you are not the intended recipient or
an authorized representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby
notified that any review, dissemination or copyingof this email and
its attachments, if any, or the information contained herein is
prohibited. If you havereceived this email in error, please
immediately notify the sender by return email and delete this email
from your system.
Message 48
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| Subject: | Re: Pedal planes |
Sherman,
Jack and I just received the plans for the Pedal P-51 from EAA. We are
going to change it so it looks like my Rocket. Change the angle of the
rudder fuselage intersection, delete the airscoop, square up the wings
some, etc. It might not be perfect but it sounds like in might look
enough like an RV to pass as such.
We haven't started yet so I can't comment of the ease of construction,
the completeness of the plans, quality of the pre-made parts, etc.
But I am sure that Jack will provide lots of comments to the list. :-)
Hope to have this one ready by September for the grand-daughters visit.
Tom Gummo
Apple Valley, CA
Harmon Rocket-II
do not archive
http://mysite.verizon.net/t.gummo/index.html
----- Original Message -----
From: Sherman Butler
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 7:35 PM
Subject: RV-List: Pedal planes
Anyone have any experience with pedal plane plans? I have seen the
ones in EAA. I have not seen plans for a Bonanza or a RV. Anyone build
them near Atlanta? I am thinking about building one for my Grandson for
Christmas.
Painting Bonanza magnesium this weekend.
Sherman Butler
RV-7a Wings
Idaho Falls
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
Check out new cars at Yahoo! Autos.
Message 49
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| Subject: | Re: Looking for advice |
Well, I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn last night but ...
This is my opinion and I read some of the book before I ate it. :-)
But if it is a homebuilt aircraft, you may install TSO equipment as well
as non-TSO equipment. So if the engine loses it "certification" because
you work on it so be it and you don't have to remove the Data Plate. As
for the engine and prop, you as the builder or even the owner of a
experimental aircraft MAY do ANY and ALL maintenance that you feel
qualified to do. For example, as long as the engine is in an
experimental aircraft it doesn't have to comply with an ADs. Is that
smart, most likely not. Once the inspector leaves, he will have NO
control of what you do, just make sure your insurance company is OK with
the level of maintenance you plan to do.
Once you remove the engine and or prop and want to sell them to someone
as a certified engine, all the ADs have to be complied with, paperwork
completed, and maybe even be inspected by an A&P. Until then, go fly
and have a good time. It is much easier to get forgiveness than
permission.
BTW, other than replace spark plugs, change oil and replace the oil
filter, I get an A&P to look over my shoulder while I do the work and
definitely have him inspect all the work and sign off the log books. I
may hate the dumb rules of the FAA but I am not really stupid (I value
my life and any pax I carry).
Tom Gummo
Apple Valley, CA
Harmon Rocket-II
309 hours and loving it a lot. I do work on my engine and prop. :-)
do not archive
http://mysite.verizon.net/t.gummo/index.html
----- Original Message -----
From: Joseph Larson
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 3:19 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Looking for advice
I could be wrong on this, but I *think* what's going on is that to
maintain the certified status of engine and prop, the FAA guy is right.
As I remember, you can decertify the Lycoming by pulling the data
plate. You *might* be able to decertify it in the engine logs, I don't
know.
But the engine remains certified only so long as it follows all the
steps a certified engine must follow. This means an A&P involvement,
including what props can be installed on it and how said props are
installed.
That's how I understand things, but I'm basing my opinion off memory
from reading the books on all this before I even started building a long
long LONG time ago. I could easily be completely wrong. Maybe someone
on the list can confirm or deny what I've said.
-Joe
On Apr 19, 2007, at 4:10 PM, Tom Gummo wrote:
Just get the paperwork signed, then follow the "correct rules", ie,
as an experimental, you can do ALL the work on it, engine and prop
included. While it would be nice if you could educate him, it is a
waste of time.
My DAR gave me the forty hour fly off time period, "So I could work
on the engine and prop."
Tom Gummo
Apple Valley, CA
Harmon Rocket-II
do not archive
http://mysite.verizon.net/t.gummo/index.html
----- Original Message -----
From: Dan Ross
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 9:19 AM
Subject: RV-List: Looking for advice
Guys:
I=92m going through the airworthiness inspection by the local
FSDO. The guy is coming next Monday at 0900 to complete the inspection
and paperwork. He happened by yesterday because he was in the area and
had some time. He did most of the inspection and said to put if back
together and be ready to run the engine on Monday. He has since called
and said I needed an A&P sign off for installing the Sensenich propeller
on the Lycoming (certified) engine. He called again and said that
because the engine is certified, it would have to be maintained as a
certified engine by an A&P and only certified parts or STC ed parts
could be installed. I suspect this guy is more airline knowledgeable
than experimental. BTW, he is a nice guy. My question is: does anyone
know any FAA regs or materials I can gently suggest this guy to
reference? Please, ranting and ravings about the FAA won=92t help me,
just references/suggestions to help educate this guy. I have more to
lose if we get into a pissing contest. Thanks in advance. Dan
Do Not Archive
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.
com/Navigator?RV-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.m
atronics.com - The RV-List Email Forum -
class="Apple-converted-space"> -->
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List - NEW MATRONICS
WEB FORUMS - class="Apple-converted-space"> -->
http://forums.matronics.com
Message 50
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| Subject: | Re: User Fees and Patriotism |
"The Hubbert peak theory" that first sentence said it all. It is just
like global warming advocates use the term consensus, consensus is not
science.
I won't change your mind and you won't change mine so I am not going to
clutter up the RV-List with anymore global warming or running out of oil
theories.
do not archive
Joe Larson wrote:
>
> Jerry, do some research. Look up "Hubbert's Peak". Read about it.
> Then get back to me.
>
> Here's a quick link:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubbert%27s_peak
>
> And here's a book at Amazon:
>
> http://www.amazon.com/Hubberts-Peak-Impending-World-Shortage/dp/
> 0691116253/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-7341198-9415216?
> ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1177035715&sr=8-1
>
> This book was recommended to me by a geology professor at the
> University of Minnesota, a person I studied under when getting my
> undergrad degree back in the '80s. He was one of the best college
> professors I had.
>
> You don't have to believe anything I say. You don't have to believe
> anything the author of this book says. If you think he's wrong, look
> at his evidence and point out what's wrong with it. Tell me where
> the thinking is flawed. I can't poke holes in it. Neither can
> people a heck of a lot smarter than I am about this stuff. Maybe you
> can. Would love to hear your arguments, based on facts and hard
> science, not blind opinion.
>
> -J
>
> On Apr 19, 2007, at 8:08 PM, Jerry Springer wrote:
>
>>
>> Joseph Larson wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Right. We don't know everything. So let's just do nothing? Or
>>> let's follow the lead of some people and deny the problems exist?
>>>
>>> Sorry, that's not my style.
>>>
>> We were running out of oil in the early 70's remember, probably not
>> if you are 44 years old now. climates are changing BUT NOT BY MAN.
>> All of you gore supporters that buy the carbon footprint exchange
>> program or believe that you can use more by buying the right to use
>> more
>> such as gore and edwards!!!!!! what a joke.
>>
>> Sorry I am contributing to this thread that would be better
>> discussed in other forums but it pisses me off when people are
>> welling to
>> let the government regulate our lives to the point of telling us
>> which light bulbs we must use etc.
>>
>> do not archive
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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