Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:08 AM - Gene Pool (Chuck Jensen)
2. 07:29 AM - Re: Vans vs. Bobs Fairings (gbrasch)
3. 07:57 AM - Re: User Fees and Patriotism (Kenyon Brooks)
4. 08:16 AM - Re: Re: User Fees and Patriotism (Konrad L. Werner)
5. 08:29 AM - Re:Govenor oil leak (Jerry2DT@aol.com)
6. 08:35 AM - Re: Vans vs. Bobs Fairings (smittysrv)
7. 09:20 AM - Re: Re: User Fees and Patriotism (Andy Gold)
8. 09:58 AM - Re: Re: User Fees and Patriotism (ronlee@pcisys.net)
9. 01:17 PM - Re: Looking for advice (DAR IS OUT TO LUNCH, 100% WRONG) ()
10. 01:30 PM - Liberalism and it's victims Re: User Fees and Patriotism (luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky))
11. 02:55 PM - Re: Liberalism and it's victims Re: User Fees and Patriotism (Bob Collins)
12. 03:21 PM - Re: Liberalism and it's victims Re: User Fees and Patriotism (n801bh@netzero.com)
13. 09:27 PM - Re: Looking for advice / registering the plane (glen matejcek)
14. 11:38 PM - Re: Re: User Fees and Patriotism (Brandon Rigio)
15. 11:54 PM - Re: Re: Vans vs. Bobs Fairings (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
Message 1
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Things like this gives GA a bad reputation, but it does serve to improve
the gene pool.
http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?ContentBlockID=d5b17368-baec-4ff1-9b
5
9-19b135992b6f
<http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?ContentBlockID=d5b17368-baec-4ff1-9
b
59-19b135992b6f>
Chuck Jensen
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Vans vs. Bobs Fairings |
When I saw the fit of Bob's on a friends -9, I ordered, they are great!
--------
Glenn Brasch
RV-9A Finishing #90623, O-360
Tucson, Arizona
Van's Aircraft Belt Buckles
http://home.earthlink.net/~gbrasch/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=108286#108286
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: User Fees and Patriotism |
Melting ice caps and rising sea levels? Maybe I'm missing something
here, but does your ice tea glass overflow when the ice melts?
I guess I just like to stir the pot! ;-)
Do not archive
Oh, by the way. . . would you listers please truncate your posts and
not copy every blasted thing from other posts that you're
referencing??? I enjoy reading what you have to say, but not what
everyone else had to say OVER AND OVER. Most of us know how to use
the list -- we can make the connection.
Ken Brooks
RV-8 Finishing
Roscoe, IL
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: User Fees and Patriotism |
Only overflows if the ice in your tea sticks somewhat out into the air,
and when it melts you'll have a flood. Otherwise one could not see the
proverbial "tip" of the iceberg!
Melting ice caps and rising sea levels? Maybe I'm missing something
here, but does your ice tea glass overflow when the ice melts? I guess I
just like to stir the pot! ;-)
Do not archive
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re:Govenor oil leak |
I had the same problem with MT governor. First, tightened nuts at upper end
of torque limits. No joy. Removed governor, gasket looked fine, cleaned
everything, put thin film of Red RTV on surfaces, torqued using "armstrong
method". No more leaks.
HTH.
Jerry Cochran
RV-6a N18XP 11 hrs.
Time: 05:27:49 PM PST US
From: RSamuelson@aol.com
Subject: RV-List: Govenor oil leak
I have a new O-360 and the Jihostroj prop governor. I have a persistent oil
leak that appears to be coming from the gasket between the governor and the
engine. I changed the gasket once and my mechanic changed it a second time.
The
leak seems to be at the top of the joint and oil dribbles on down various
hoses and wires and exits at the lower cowl.
Anyone else have the problem?
Roy Samuelson
RV7A at Oakland CA
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Vans vs. Bobs Fairings |
Does anybody know a website address or email to contact these guys about there
cowls? I'd like to find out more about them.
Thanks!
--------
Smittys RV-9A
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=108298#108298
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: User Fees and Patriotism |
If your glass is full of ice and water and you drop in another handfull of
ice it will overflow; right? So on a global scale, as the ocean is now full
(at least in relation to beach front communities from Miami to Venice to
Beijing). The extra handfull of ice is that which is now above water making
up the Antarctic and Greenland caps and numerous glaciers all over.
Andy
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kenyon Brooks" <kenbrooks@charter.net>
Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2007 8:56 AM
Subject: RV-List: Re: User Fees and Patriotism
>
> Melting ice caps and rising sea levels? Maybe I'm missing something
> here, but does your ice tea glass overflow when the ice melts?
>
> I guess I just like to stir the pot! ;-)
>
> Do not archive
>
> Oh, by the way. . . would you listers please truncate your posts and not
> copy every blasted thing from other posts that you're referencing??? I
> enjoy reading what you have to say, but not what everyone else had to say
> OVER AND OVER. Most of us know how to use the list -- we can make the
> connection.
>
> Ken Brooks
> RV-8 Finishing
> Roscoe, IL
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: User Fees and Patriotism |
> If your glass is full of ice and water and you drop in another handfull
of ice it will overflow; right? So on a global scale, as the ocean is
now full (at least in relation to beach front communities from Miami to
Venice to Beijing). The extra handfull of ice is that which is now above
water making up the Antarctic and Greenland caps and numerous glaciers
all over.
If you folks really believe that mankind is doing anything substantial to
negatively impact climate, then please quit driving cars, flying
airplanes and revert back to an agrarian/hunter lifestyle living in caves
or huts. Please note that Earth's climate has changed substantially over
the millenia even when man was not a factor.
If you want to believe this non-science that is fine but keep your lack
of knowledge of anything but your own lifetime from impacting my life.
Ron Lee
---------------------------------------------
This message was sent using Endymion MailMan.
http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Looking for advice (DAR IS OUT TO LUNCH, 100% WRONG) |
HE IS 100% WRONG!
It does not matter if its a Hartzell and Lycoming or a Two by Four you
whittled out and attached to a lawn mower engine. Also the Sensenich
is AN EXPERIMENTAL PROP. This guy is OUT TO LUNCH.
First you are not getting "airworthiness" you are getting a special
airworthiness certificate for an experimental aircraft. Experimental don't
have type certificates and therefore are not subject to
Part 39 - Airworthiness directives or.......
Second the following Parts do not apply to experimentals:
Part 21 - Certification procedures for products and parts
Part 23 - Airworthiness standards: Normal, utility, acrobatic, and
commuter category airplanes
Part 33 - Airworthiness standards: Aircraft engines
Part 35 - Airworthiness standards: Propellers
Part 39 - Airworthiness directives
Part 43 - Maintenance, preventive maintenance, rebuilding, alteration
THIS IS A FACT, LEGAL FAR, FACT. IT DOES NOT MATTER WHAT
HIS OPINION IS OR WHAT HE WOULD LIKE TO SEE.
YOU NEED SOME ONE TO POINT THE ABOVE OUT, THAN IT
TAKES ALL HIS ARGUMENT AWAY.
Here is the problem people have, experimental aircraft have very
few FAR's compared to a certified, type cert plane with an
airworthiness certificate. SOME FAA or DAR's with a control or
Authoritarian Complex want to impose there Opinion and control
on experimentals that DO NOT APPLY. We need to get these
GUYS out of the DAR business or educate them.
For heavens sakes DON'T GO ALONG WITH THIS! He does it once
he will want to make it LAW.
GOOGLE: Airworthiness Directives and Amateur built aircraft
or
Amateur-Built Aircraft Certification Inspection Guide
Here is a link (with lots of reference):
http://www.sportair.org/articles/Rules%20&%20Regulations%20of%20Airplane%20Building.html
Look down where is says: Maintaining Your Airplane. You will see
many refs but if this guy is going on HOW HE THINKS IT SHOULD
be and LAW (FAR's) you are SOL. You will have to go to his
supervisor or District Maintenance Chief. HOW THEY SEND THESE
GUYS OUT WITH NO TRAINING AMAZES ME
If he does not believe you, have him call FAA legal department. My
Friend get into his face and say NO. Have him prove it. He is making
it up.
There is confusion from some old advisory circulars (AC) that where
published in the 1970's, but they are wrong. This is where the FAA
is not consistent.
HE IS WRONG WRONG WRONG. You don't need an A&P to work on
an amateur build experimental. Part 43 does not apply to experimentals.
Even more controversial is you don't need to comply to AD's on certified
parts, however its common wisdom and sense that its a very good idea.
As the builder you can make the choice to comply or not. Most agree
compiling is good. However when a Prop or Engine is mounted on an
experimental ITS NO LONGER A CERTIFIED PART. Its only certified
when its in that aircraft it was certified in. There are no REAL certified
prop/engines in experimentals for the purpose of maintenance, mod or
AD compliance. This approved combo is only for the 25 to 40 Phase I
period. Its totally different. Besides look at Van's catalog or call
Sensenich, its an experimental PROP they happens to be designed for
RV's with Lycs. However every installation is different and experimental.
Also the Sensenich prop and Lyc IS NOT A Certified Type Approved
combination. The Sensenich is an Experimental prop. Here is the deal
even if it was approved say in a piper or cessna, when its put into an
experimental the installation is not longer a TYPE Certificated
installation.
Here is the thing this guy needs to wrap is brain around, Experimentals
have almost a BLANK CHECK on what you do to it and who works on it.
The only real limit is the annual condition inspection, must be done by a
repairman for the plane or an A&P. However if you bought a second hand
Experimental the new owner can DO WHAT EVER HE WANTS,
maintenance and modification. Again however than he or she would need
to get a condition Inspection signed off. If the A&P does not want to sign
it off that is their choice.
Here is something I wrote about PROP AD's on a Hartzell.
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showpost.php?p=118022&postcount=12
If you are a member go to on the EAA web site or call the legal dept on
Monday. If you are a member it has lots of info and "controversial" debates
that the EAA legal department has worked out and the FAA is an
agreement.
Many DAR's sometimes work on their own personal preference or opinion
and not the law.
This GUY is WRONG WRONG WRONG. You do not have to maintain it to
TYPE CERT standards. I WOULD GET A DAR THAT KNOWS WHAT HE
IS DOING.
Good Luck but this GUY is OFF base. He is there just to sign off the paper
work not verify airworthiness. Now if he thinks something is not safe than
he can refuse. However the part about A&P's, STC and all that is 100%
wrong.
HERE IS WHAT YOU CAN DO:
-Get a EAA Technical Counselor
-He is going to need to be educated. HE IS NOT GOING TO LISTEN TO
YOU. You will have to get a knowledgeable FAA person to intercede.
-You can go over his head or call FAA in OK and talk to the FAA.
-I WOULD CALL EAA and IF NOT A MEMBER JOIN. They do more for
us, experimental builders/pilots than AOPA or any other group.
email me if you want more info. gmcjetpilot@yahoo.com
It does not matter if you get into a pissing match, HE IS 100% WRONG!
Stand up to the government, don't be afraid. You will get it signed off and
YOU DON'T NEED AN A&P signature ANYWHERE.
George ATP,CFI-II-ME
>From: "Dan Ross" <dcr@fdltownhomes.com>
>Subject: RV-List: Looking for advice
>
>Guys:
>
> I'm going through the airworthiness inspection by the local FSDO. The
>guy is coming next Monday at 0900 to complete the inspection and
>paperwork. He happened by yesterday because he was in the area and
>had some time. He did most of the inspection and said to put if back together
>and be ready to run the engine on Monday. He has since called and said I
>needed an A&P sign off for installing the Sensenich propeller on the
>Lycoming (certified) engine.
>
>He called again and said that because the engine is certified, it would
>have to be maintained as a certified engine by an A&P and only certified
>parts or STC ed parts could be installed. I suspect this guy is more airline
>knowledgeable than experimental. BTW, he is a nice guy. My question
>is:
>
>does anyone know any FAA regs or materials I can gently suggest this
>guy to reference? Please, ranting and ravings about the FAA won't help me,
>just references/suggestions to help educate this guy. I have more to lose
>if weget into a pissing contest. Thanks in advance. Dan
---------------------------------
Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.
Message 10
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| Subject: | User Fees and Patriotism |
Message 11
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| Subject: | User Fees and Patriotism |
I'm probably on the wrong list for this. If so, I apologize.
I'm building this thing called an RV airplane
An RV airplane, by the way, is a cool thing you can build yourself if you
have enough tools, talent, and money. If anyone here needs any more
information on this, I'll be happy to offer what I can, although I'm not the
best source of information.
I was wondering if anyone here went to SnF saw. What forums did you attend?
What deals did you find? How many RVs were there?
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of lucky
Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2007 3:30 PM
Subject: Liberalism and it's victims RE: RV-List: User Fees and Patriotism
Message 12
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| Subject: | User Fees and Patriotism |
it's April 21,, not April1- april fools day... :-)
do not archive
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
-- "Bob Collins" <bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net> wrote:
I'm probably on the wrong list for this. If so, I apologize.
I'm building this thing called an RV airplane
An RV airplane, by the way, is a cool thing you can build yourself if yo
u
have enough tools, talent, and money. If anyone here needs any more
information on this, I'll be happy to offer what I can, although I'm not
the
best source of information.
I was wondering if anyone here went to SnF saw. What forums did you atte
nd?
What deals did you find? How many RVs were there?
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of lucky
Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2007 3:30 PM
Subject: Liberalism and it's victims RE: RV-List: User Fees and Patrioti
sm
========================
===========
========================
===========
========================
===========
<html><P>it's April 21,, not April1- april fools day...  
; :-)</P>
<P>do not archive<BR><BR><BR>Ben Haas<BR>N801BH<BR>www.haaspowerair
.com<BR><BR>-- "Bob Collins" <bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net
> wrote:<BR>--> RV-List message posted by
: "Bob Collins" <bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net><BR><BR>I
'm probably on the wrong list for thi
s. If so, I apologize.<BR><BR>I'm building 
;this thing called an RV airplane <BR><BR>
An RV airplane, by the way, is a 
;cool thing you can build yourself if 
;you<BR>have enough tools, talent, and money.&n
bsp;If anyone here needs any more<BR>informatio
n on this, I'll be happy to offer&nbs
p;what I can, although I'm not the<BR>best
source of information.<BR><BR>I was wondering&
nbsp;if anyone here went to SnF saw.
What forums did you attend?<BR>What deals
did you find? How many RVs were there
?<BR><BR>Do not archive <BR><BR>-----Original Messag
e-----<BR>From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com<BR>[mailto:owner
-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of lucky<BR
>Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2007 3:30 PM<BR
>To: rv-list@matronics.com<BR>Subject: Liberalism and&nbs
p;it's victims RE: RV-List: User Fees and&
========================
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========================
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Message 13
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| Subject: | RE: Looking for advice / registering the plane |
Hi All-
Let me chip in 2 cents here. I just went through a minor hassle that could
have been a big one. I sent in my registration package a little while
back. About 2 weeks later I received 2 letters from the feds. They had
consecutive dates, and were "you goofed your registration" form letters.
The letter has boxes to check to show what was missing from the
registration package. If you were to combine the everything that each
letter said was missing, you'd have a complete package. Hmm... looks like
somehow my registration package got split in two, and then two different
'crats rejected the individual halves. After much time on hold, and as
much time explaining and re-explaining the light bulb finally came on. The
'crat of the moment said she'd look for the docs and give me a call back.
2 days later, no call. So I called them. Turns out all was well, and the
2 halves of the package had been located and put back together. Great! So
where do we stand in the process? "Oh, the documents are being sent back
to you." What!?!?! "Yes, you made an error. The serial numbers on the
forms don't match." Long story short, they felt that MY airplane serial
number had to be VAN's kit serial number. I got hold of Charlie Becker up
at OSH who called the head of the fed office. Within a few minutes he
called back to tell me that my registration would be in the mail in a day
or two. Poof. That simple. Also, during the course of our conversation,
engine data plates came up. They absolutely DO NOT have to be removed from
the engine. You can be directed to the source material for these policies
by our friends in OSH, and certainly in my case they were able call the
right fed and make the problem go away in minutes. YMMV, but those folks
carry a lot of clout. I would advise anyone having these kinds of issues
to seek out the EAA tech folks and learn the truth, as well as how to get
the feds on track.
glen matejcek
aerobubba@earthlink.net
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: User Fees and Patriotism |
I don't think we are dropping in another handful. If you have a glass
of water with the floating ice piled over the top of the glass and the
water level at the brim, as the ice melts the level in the glass wont
change.
The ice is less dense than water so it displaces its mass in water, not
its volume, that's why it floats. Melt every bit of ice floating in the
oceans, and most of it is floating, and we wouldn't even notice it.
My $.02
Brandon
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Andy Gold
Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2007 9:19 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: User Fees and Patriotism
If your glass is full of ice and water and you drop in another handfull
of
ice it will overflow; right? So on a global scale, as the ocean is now
full
(at least in relation to beach front communities from Miami to Venice to
Beijing). The extra handfull of ice is that which is now above water
making
up the Antarctic and Greenland caps and numerous glaciers all over.
Andy
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Vans vs. Bobs Fairings |
Bob don't do cowls- DOES do some mighty nice emp fairings (I've done 3 so
far) and many report good results with legs & intersection fairings. For
non-Vans cowls, you'll probably need to contact Sam James
863.675.4493
Mark RV-6A N51PW
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
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