---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 04/21/07: 15 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:08 AM - Gene Pool (Chuck Jensen) 2. 07:29 AM - Re: Vans vs. Bobs Fairings (gbrasch) 3. 07:57 AM - Re: User Fees and Patriotism (Kenyon Brooks) 4. 08:16 AM - Re: Re: User Fees and Patriotism (Konrad L. Werner) 5. 08:29 AM - Re:Govenor oil leak (Jerry2DT@aol.com) 6. 08:35 AM - Re: Vans vs. Bobs Fairings (smittysrv) 7. 09:20 AM - Re: Re: User Fees and Patriotism (Andy Gold) 8. 09:58 AM - Re: Re: User Fees and Patriotism (ronlee@pcisys.net) 9. 01:17 PM - Re: Looking for advice (DAR IS OUT TO LUNCH, 100% WRONG) () 10. 01:30 PM - Liberalism and it's victims Re: User Fees and Patriotism (luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky)) 11. 02:55 PM - Re: Liberalism and it's victims Re: User Fees and Patriotism (Bob Collins) 12. 03:21 PM - Re: Liberalism and it's victims Re: User Fees and Patriotism (n801bh@netzero.com) 13. 09:27 PM - Re: Looking for advice / registering the plane (glen matejcek) 14. 11:38 PM - Re: Re: User Fees and Patriotism (Brandon Rigio) 15. 11:54 PM - Re: Re: Vans vs. Bobs Fairings (Fiveonepw@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:08:52 AM PST US Subject: RV-List: Gene Pool From: "Chuck Jensen" Things like this gives GA a bad reputation, but it does serve to improve the gene pool. http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?ContentBlockID=d5b17368-baec-4ff1-9b 5 9-19b135992b6f Chuck Jensen ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:29:00 AM PST US Subject: RV-List: Re: Vans vs. Bobs Fairings From: "gbrasch" When I saw the fit of Bob's on a friends -9, I ordered, they are great! -------- Glenn Brasch RV-9A Finishing #90623, O-360 Tucson, Arizona Van's Aircraft Belt Buckles http://home.earthlink.net/~gbrasch/ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=108286#108286 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:57:29 AM PST US From: Kenyon Brooks Subject: RV-List: Re: User Fees and Patriotism Melting ice caps and rising sea levels? Maybe I'm missing something here, but does your ice tea glass overflow when the ice melts? I guess I just like to stir the pot! ;-) Do not archive Oh, by the way. . . would you listers please truncate your posts and not copy every blasted thing from other posts that you're referencing??? I enjoy reading what you have to say, but not what everyone else had to say OVER AND OVER. Most of us know how to use the list -- we can make the connection. Ken Brooks RV-8 Finishing Roscoe, IL ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:16:01 AM PST US From: "Konrad L. Werner" Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: User Fees and Patriotism Only overflows if the ice in your tea sticks somewhat out into the air, and when it melts you'll have a flood. Otherwise one could not see the proverbial "tip" of the iceberg! Melting ice caps and rising sea levels? Maybe I'm missing something here, but does your ice tea glass overflow when the ice melts? I guess I just like to stir the pot! ;-) Do not archive ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:29:40 AM PST US From: Jerry2DT@aol.com Subject: RV-List: Re:Govenor oil leak I had the same problem with MT governor. First, tightened nuts at upper end of torque limits. No joy. Removed governor, gasket looked fine, cleaned everything, put thin film of Red RTV on surfaces, torqued using "armstrong method". No more leaks. HTH. Jerry Cochran RV-6a N18XP 11 hrs. Time: 05:27:49 PM PST US From: RSamuelson@aol.com Subject: RV-List: Govenor oil leak I have a new O-360 and the Jihostroj prop governor. I have a persistent oil leak that appears to be coming from the gasket between the governor and the engine. I changed the gasket once and my mechanic changed it a second time. The leak seems to be at the top of the joint and oil dribbles on down various hoses and wires and exits at the lower cowl. Anyone else have the problem? Roy Samuelson RV7A at Oakland CA ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:35:18 AM PST US Subject: RV-List: Re: Vans vs. Bobs Fairings From: "smittysrv" Does anybody know a website address or email to contact these guys about there cowls? I'd like to find out more about them. Thanks! -------- Smittys RV-9A Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=108298#108298 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:20:16 AM PST US From: "Andy Gold" Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: User Fees and Patriotism If your glass is full of ice and water and you drop in another handfull of ice it will overflow; right? So on a global scale, as the ocean is now full (at least in relation to beach front communities from Miami to Venice to Beijing). The extra handfull of ice is that which is now above water making up the Antarctic and Greenland caps and numerous glaciers all over. Andy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kenyon Brooks" Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2007 8:56 AM Subject: RV-List: Re: User Fees and Patriotism > > Melting ice caps and rising sea levels? Maybe I'm missing something > here, but does your ice tea glass overflow when the ice melts? > > I guess I just like to stir the pot! ;-) > > Do not archive > > Oh, by the way. . . would you listers please truncate your posts and not > copy every blasted thing from other posts that you're referencing??? I > enjoy reading what you have to say, but not what everyone else had to say > OVER AND OVER. Most of us know how to use the list -- we can make the > connection. > > Ken Brooks > RV-8 Finishing > Roscoe, IL > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:58:36 AM PST US From: ronlee@pcisys.net Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: User Fees and Patriotism > If your glass is full of ice and water and you drop in another handfull of ice it will overflow; right? So on a global scale, as the ocean is now full (at least in relation to beach front communities from Miami to Venice to Beijing). The extra handfull of ice is that which is now above water making up the Antarctic and Greenland caps and numerous glaciers all over. If you folks really believe that mankind is doing anything substantial to negatively impact climate, then please quit driving cars, flying airplanes and revert back to an agrarian/hunter lifestyle living in caves or huts. Please note that Earth's climate has changed substantially over the millenia even when man was not a factor. If you want to believe this non-science that is fine but keep your lack of knowledge of anything but your own lifetime from impacting my life. Ron Lee --------------------------------------------- This message was sent using Endymion MailMan. http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/ ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 01:17:06 PM PST US From: Subject: RV-List: Re: Looking for advice (DAR IS OUT TO LUNCH, 100% WRONG) HE IS 100% WRONG! It does not matter if its a Hartzell and Lycoming or a Two by Four you whittled out and attached to a lawn mower engine. Also the Sensenich is AN EXPERIMENTAL PROP. This guy is OUT TO LUNCH. First you are not getting "airworthiness" you are getting a special airworthiness certificate for an experimental aircraft. Experimental don't have type certificates and therefore are not subject to Part 39 - Airworthiness directives or....... Second the following Parts do not apply to experimentals: Part 21 - Certification procedures for products and parts Part 23 - Airworthiness standards: Normal, utility, acrobatic, and commuter category airplanes Part 33 - Airworthiness standards: Aircraft engines Part 35 - Airworthiness standards: Propellers Part 39 - Airworthiness directives Part 43 - Maintenance, preventive maintenance, rebuilding, alteration THIS IS A FACT, LEGAL FAR, FACT. IT DOES NOT MATTER WHAT HIS OPINION IS OR WHAT HE WOULD LIKE TO SEE. YOU NEED SOME ONE TO POINT THE ABOVE OUT, THAN IT TAKES ALL HIS ARGUMENT AWAY. Here is the problem people have, experimental aircraft have very few FAR's compared to a certified, type cert plane with an airworthiness certificate. SOME FAA or DAR's with a control or Authoritarian Complex want to impose there Opinion and control on experimentals that DO NOT APPLY. We need to get these GUYS out of the DAR business or educate them. For heavens sakes DON'T GO ALONG WITH THIS! He does it once he will want to make it LAW. GOOGLE: Airworthiness Directives and Amateur built aircraft or Amateur-Built Aircraft Certification Inspection Guide Here is a link (with lots of reference): http://www.sportair.org/articles/Rules%20&%20Regulations%20of%20Airplane%20Building.html Look down where is says: Maintaining Your Airplane. You will see many refs but if this guy is going on HOW HE THINKS IT SHOULD be and LAW (FAR's) you are SOL. You will have to go to his supervisor or District Maintenance Chief. HOW THEY SEND THESE GUYS OUT WITH NO TRAINING AMAZES ME If he does not believe you, have him call FAA legal department. My Friend get into his face and say NO. Have him prove it. He is making it up. There is confusion from some old advisory circulars (AC) that where published in the 1970's, but they are wrong. This is where the FAA is not consistent. HE IS WRONG WRONG WRONG. You don't need an A&P to work on an amateur build experimental. Part 43 does not apply to experimentals. Even more controversial is you don't need to comply to AD's on certified parts, however its common wisdom and sense that its a very good idea. As the builder you can make the choice to comply or not. Most agree compiling is good. However when a Prop or Engine is mounted on an experimental ITS NO LONGER A CERTIFIED PART. Its only certified when its in that aircraft it was certified in. There are no REAL certified prop/engines in experimentals for the purpose of maintenance, mod or AD compliance. This approved combo is only for the 25 to 40 Phase I period. Its totally different. Besides look at Van's catalog or call Sensenich, its an experimental PROP they happens to be designed for RV's with Lycs. However every installation is different and experimental. Also the Sensenich prop and Lyc IS NOT A Certified Type Approved combination. The Sensenich is an Experimental prop. Here is the deal even if it was approved say in a piper or cessna, when its put into an experimental the installation is not longer a TYPE Certificated installation. Here is the thing this guy needs to wrap is brain around, Experimentals have almost a BLANK CHECK on what you do to it and who works on it. The only real limit is the annual condition inspection, must be done by a repairman for the plane or an A&P. However if you bought a second hand Experimental the new owner can DO WHAT EVER HE WANTS, maintenance and modification. Again however than he or she would need to get a condition Inspection signed off. If the A&P does not want to sign it off that is their choice. Here is something I wrote about PROP AD's on a Hartzell. http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showpost.php?p=118022&postcount=12 If you are a member go to on the EAA web site or call the legal dept on Monday. If you are a member it has lots of info and "controversial" debates that the EAA legal department has worked out and the FAA is an agreement. Many DAR's sometimes work on their own personal preference or opinion and not the law. This GUY is WRONG WRONG WRONG. You do not have to maintain it to TYPE CERT standards. I WOULD GET A DAR THAT KNOWS WHAT HE IS DOING. Good Luck but this GUY is OFF base. He is there just to sign off the paper work not verify airworthiness. Now if he thinks something is not safe than he can refuse. However the part about A&P's, STC and all that is 100% wrong. HERE IS WHAT YOU CAN DO: -Get a EAA Technical Counselor -He is going to need to be educated. HE IS NOT GOING TO LISTEN TO YOU. You will have to get a knowledgeable FAA person to intercede. -You can go over his head or call FAA in OK and talk to the FAA. -I WOULD CALL EAA and IF NOT A MEMBER JOIN. They do more for us, experimental builders/pilots than AOPA or any other group. email me if you want more info. gmcjetpilot@yahoo.com It does not matter if you get into a pissing match, HE IS 100% WRONG! Stand up to the government, don't be afraid. You will get it signed off and YOU DON'T NEED AN A&P signature ANYWHERE. George ATP,CFI-II-ME >From: "Dan Ross" >Subject: RV-List: Looking for advice > >Guys: > > I'm going through the airworthiness inspection by the local FSDO. The >guy is coming next Monday at 0900 to complete the inspection and >paperwork. He happened by yesterday because he was in the area and >had some time. He did most of the inspection and said to put if back together >and be ready to run the engine on Monday. He has since called and said I >needed an A&P sign off for installing the Sensenich propeller on the >Lycoming (certified) engine. > >He called again and said that because the engine is certified, it would >have to be maintained as a certified engine by an A&P and only certified >parts or STC ed parts could be installed. I suspect this guy is more airline >knowledgeable than experimental. BTW, he is a nice guy. My question >is: > >does anyone know any FAA regs or materials I can gently suggest this >guy to reference? Please, ranting and ravings about the FAA won't help me, >just references/suggestions to help educate this guy. I have more to lose >if weget into a pissing contest. Thanks in advance. Dan --------------------------------- Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:30:48 PM PST US From: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky) Subject: Liberalism and it's victims RE: RV-List: User Fees and Patriotism ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 02:55:48 PM PST US From: "Bob Collins" Subject: RE: Liberalism and it's victims RE: RV-List: User Fees and Patriotism I'm probably on the wrong list for this. If so, I apologize. I'm building this thing called an RV airplane An RV airplane, by the way, is a cool thing you can build yourself if you have enough tools, talent, and money. If anyone here needs any more information on this, I'll be happy to offer what I can, although I'm not the best source of information. I was wondering if anyone here went to SnF saw. What forums did you attend? What deals did you find? How many RVs were there? Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of lucky Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2007 3:30 PM Subject: Liberalism and it's victims RE: RV-List: User Fees and Patriotism ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 03:21:56 PM PST US From: "n801bh@netzero.com" Subject: RE: Liberalism and it's victims RE: RV-List: User Fees and Patriotism it's April 21,, not April1- april fools day... :-) do not archive Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com -- "Bob Collins" wrote: I'm probably on the wrong list for this. If so, I apologize. I'm building this thing called an RV airplane An RV airplane, by the way, is a cool thing you can build yourself if yo u have enough tools, talent, and money. If anyone here needs any more information on this, I'll be happy to offer what I can, although I'm not the best source of information. I was wondering if anyone here went to SnF saw. What forums did you atte nd? What deals did you find? How many RVs were there? Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of lucky Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2007 3:30 PM Subject: Liberalism and it's victims RE: RV-List: User Fees and Patrioti sm ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== ===========

it's April 21,, not April1- april fools day...    ;  :-)

do not archive


Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair .com

-- "Bob Collins" <bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net > wrote:
--> RV-List message posted by : "Bob Collins" <bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net>

I 'm probably on the wrong list for thi s. If so, I apologize.

I'm building  ;this thing called an RV airplane 

An RV airplane, by the way, is a  ;cool thing you can build yourself if  ;you
have enough tools, talent, and money.&n bsp;If anyone here needs any more
informatio n on this, I'll be happy to offer&nbs p;what I can, although I'm not the
best  source of information.

I was wondering& nbsp;if anyone here went to SnF saw.  What forums did you attend?
What deals  did you find? How many RVs were there ?

Do not archive 

-----Original Messag e-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner -rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of lucky
Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2007 3:30 PM
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Subject: Liberalism and&nbs p;it's victims RE: RV-List: User Fees and& ======================== ======================== ;Use the Matronics List Features Navigator  ive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, C ========================              p;Same great content now also available vi ======================== ======================
________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:27:41 PM PST US From: "glen matejcek" Subject: RV-List: RE: Looking for advice / registering the plane Hi All- Let me chip in 2 cents here. I just went through a minor hassle that could have been a big one. I sent in my registration package a little while back. About 2 weeks later I received 2 letters from the feds. They had consecutive dates, and were "you goofed your registration" form letters. The letter has boxes to check to show what was missing from the registration package. If you were to combine the everything that each letter said was missing, you'd have a complete package. Hmm... looks like somehow my registration package got split in two, and then two different 'crats rejected the individual halves. After much time on hold, and as much time explaining and re-explaining the light bulb finally came on. The 'crat of the moment said she'd look for the docs and give me a call back. 2 days later, no call. So I called them. Turns out all was well, and the 2 halves of the package had been located and put back together. Great! So where do we stand in the process? "Oh, the documents are being sent back to you." What!?!?! "Yes, you made an error. The serial numbers on the forms don't match." Long story short, they felt that MY airplane serial number had to be VAN's kit serial number. I got hold of Charlie Becker up at OSH who called the head of the fed office. Within a few minutes he called back to tell me that my registration would be in the mail in a day or two. Poof. That simple. Also, during the course of our conversation, engine data plates came up. They absolutely DO NOT have to be removed from the engine. You can be directed to the source material for these policies by our friends in OSH, and certainly in my case they were able call the right fed and make the problem go away in minutes. YMMV, but those folks carry a lot of clout. I would advise anyone having these kinds of issues to seek out the EAA tech folks and learn the truth, as well as how to get the feds on track. glen matejcek aerobubba@earthlink.net ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 11:38:33 PM PST US Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: User Fees and Patriotism From: "Brandon Rigio" I don't think we are dropping in another handful. If you have a glass of water with the floating ice piled over the top of the glass and the water level at the brim, as the ice melts the level in the glass wont change. The ice is less dense than water so it displaces its mass in water, not its volume, that's why it floats. Melt every bit of ice floating in the oceans, and most of it is floating, and we wouldn't even notice it. My $.02 Brandon Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Andy Gold Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2007 9:19 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: User Fees and Patriotism If your glass is full of ice and water and you drop in another handfull of ice it will overflow; right? So on a global scale, as the ocean is now full (at least in relation to beach front communities from Miami to Venice to Beijing). The extra handfull of ice is that which is now above water making up the Antarctic and Greenland caps and numerous glaciers all over. Andy ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 11:54:48 PM PST US From: Fiveonepw@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Vans vs. Bobs Fairings Bob don't do cowls- DOES do some mighty nice emp fairings (I've done 3 so far) and many report good results with legs & intersection fairings. For non-Vans cowls, you'll probably need to contact Sam James 863.675.4493 Mark RV-6A N51PW ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rv-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rv-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.