Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:26 AM - Re: Sam James Wheel Pants (Kevin Horton)
2. 04:22 AM - Re: Sam James Wheel Pants ()
3. 04:54 AM - VA-183 Governor bracket (Karl Ahamer)
4. 08:10 AM - Re: VA-183 Governor bracket (Bill Schlatterer)
5. 12:43 PM - Performance Chart (Greg Williams)
6. 02:15 PM - Fuel Selector Bracket (Patrick Kelley)
7. 07:44 PM - Re: Performance Chart (Reuven Silberman)
8. 08:19 PM - Re: Performance Chart (Kevin Horton)
9. 08:31 PM - Re: Performance Chart (Greg Williams)
10. 08:43 PM - Re: Performance Chart (Greg Williams)
11. 09:08 PM - Re: Performance Chart (Vanremog@aol.com)
12. 09:26 PM - Re: Performance Chart (Reuven Silberman)
13. 09:36 PM - Re: Performance Chart (Dale Walter)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Sam James Wheel Pants |
The last time this was discussed, Dick Martin said:
Barry,
I had Vans pants installed and flying first. I fitted Sam James
pants and flew them. Inorder to determine the performance, which
appeared to be faster, I reinstalled Vans pants and flew them and
then removed them and flew the Sam James pants an hour later. The
James pants were approx 5 knot faster +/- l knot..
Dick Martin
RV8 N233M
On 11 May 2007, at 22:51, Kyle Boatright wrote:
> <kboatright1@comcast.net>
>
> I have the SJ wheelpants. They were the only two piece "pressure
> recovery" pants offered when I built my airplane. Back then, all
> you got was a set of directions and two tuna shaped wheelpants. No
> brackets, no pre-made cutouts, nothing except the pants themselves.
>
> I *believe* Van's sells a more complete product for about the same $
> $, and convenience sells.
>
> As far as performance differences go, I've never seen a head to
> head comparison between Van's current pants and the James pants.
>
> Something else to consider is that the geometry of the James pants
> makes it harder to get the recommended tire to wheelpant clearance
> around the cutout..
>
> Kyle Boatright
> RV-6 N46KB
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Cross"
> <bcross2160@rogers.com>
> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Friday, May 11, 2007 10:27 PM
> Subject: RV-List: Sam James Wheel Pants
>
>
>>
>> Hi Folks
>>
>> I am in the process of ordering my finishing kit from Vans. I
>> think my only outstanding question is in regard to whose wheel
>> pants to use. I have read emails from you a few people that
>> indicate that the Sam James wheel pants have reduced drag so more
>> speed or better economy can be realized.
>>
>> I guess I am wondering if this is so, why you don't see more of
>> them on all the RVs I have seen. Are they more difficult to
>> install? Do the majority of people believe they are a worthwhile
>> upgrade?
>>
>> Your facts & opinions are greatly appreciated!
>>
>> Thanks in advance.
>>
>> Brian Cross RV-8 #81844
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Kevin Horton
Ottawa, Canada
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Sam James Wheel Pants |
I think IMHO your 9mph for gear leg sounds high and 2 mph
sounds low for wheel pants (pressure recovery type, right?),
but fine, I don't want to debate that. But...............
Think about this, you got 2 mph more at basically 9 mph faster,
which is harder to do. In other words if you put the wheel pants
on first along you might have got 3 or 4 mph more. Lets say its
harder going from 189 to 191 mph than 180 to 182 mph.
Its pretty easy to research the web for the gain the fairings give,
but there is no doubt the wheel pants are not decorative at 200
mph. I agree legs probably do get you a little more wheel fairings .
Van's test and writing showed he gained several MPH over the
old wheel pants he offered about 8 or so years ago verses the
current PR wheel fairing? So there is gain with PR wheel fairings.
Sam James should be same or slightly better than Vans' PR.
SJ does not make claims, but I like the look better for a tail
dragger. If trike go with vans, since it matches nose fairing.
Also lack of performance gain may be from from not putting them
on properly. Not saying that is the case, just that alignment and
excessive gaps can cause the gain to be minimized. I saw your
workmanship Mark, excellent so that is not the case, just saying.
Cheers George
Time: 10:51:41 PM PST US
From: Fiveonepw@aol.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: Sam James Wheel Pants
Awright- you asked! It has been reported not only here on the list for
many years, but also from quite a few folks I have talked to that the
wheelpants on an RV are mostly decorative- look nice but unintuitively
do little to reduce drag. Most builders report that the primary speed
improvement from f&glass comes from the gear leg fairings themselves,
with little added speed increase after adding the pants. In my case, I
saw about 9 mph increase with just the main leg fairings installed &
perhaps another 2 mph increase from Van's pressure recovery pants,
so if they appeal to your sense of esthetics more than Vans, I'd highly
recommend them! Either way you go, f&glass is a pain in the
a$$...
Disclaimer: I haven't worn SJ pants, but I'm also an advocate of caveat
emptor...
Mark Phillips - RV-6A "Mojo" 400+ hrs and climbing
_http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/_
(http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/)
---------------------------------
Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase.
Message 3
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| Subject: | VA-183 Governor bracket |
Hi all,
Mounted the MT Governor and VA-183 governor bracket to my O-360A-1-A
today and noticed that the bracket is obstructing the the oil to cooler
outlet on the engine.
A 45 degree nipple is installed there,which points down a bit to the
left (as seen from behind the engine).The only way I think it could work
is to turn the nipple about 180 degrees to face upwards.
The archives have something on this bracket,but not related to the oil
line .
Wonder if someone else had this problem.
Regards
Karl Ahamer
7A
near Sydney/Australia
11/05/2007 7:34 PM
Message 4
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| Subject: | VA-183 Governor bracket |
Karl, I had the same problem on an XP360 A1A. A straight fitting is too
close to the oil filter. Ken at Vans sent me a picture and said "do
something like this", meaning cut and trim. I was a little leery because of
the size of the notch I had to cut out so I welded a piece of scrap steel
along the bottom to make sure it was still solid. Probably not necessary.
BTW, "I" really means "a friend" welded the brace on the bracket. Hope
this helps.
Bill S
7a engine
Arkansas
_____
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Karl Ahamer
Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2007 6:53 AM
Subject: RV-List: VA-183 Governor bracket
Hi all,
Mounted the MT Governor and VA-183 governor bracket to my O-360A-1-A today
and noticed that the bracket is obstructing the the oil to cooler outlet on
the engine.
A 45 degree nipple is installed there,which points down a bit to the left
(as seen from behind the engine).The only way I think it could work is to
turn the nipple about 180 degrees to face upwards.
The archives have something on this bracket,but not related to the oil line
.
Wonder if someone else had this problem.
Regards
Karl Ahamer
7A
near Sydney/Australia
11/05/2007 7:34 PM
Message 5
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| Subject: | Performance Chart |
I'm flying a 1160 lb RV-7 with Hartzell Blended Airfoil Constant Speed Prop,
Aerosport IO-360 180 hp engine, Lightspeed Ignition with wheelpants &
standard fairings installed. Does anyone have a similar plane with
verified performance numbers? I don't believe the original builder's RPM
vs MP vs GPH numbers. Thanks, Greg
Message 6
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| Subject: | Fuel Selector Bracket |
Thanks to all who responded; I cooked up a solution. I just wanted to be
sure I hadn't missed some critical spot on the plans. Moving forward .
PatK - RV-6A - Wings back off *sigh* so I can finish the fairing
attachments.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Performance Chart |
Greg,
Got almost the same setup in a 7A but with mags. We had the same questions a year
and a half ago. Called Lycoming and had them send an 8 1/2" by 11" power chart
(the original is a 5 x 8 sheet that is all but unreadable and unuseable) for
an IO360 and used that to start with. Would have no clue on how the Lightspeed
would affect the power chart. We use 22" at 2400 rpm and I believe that is
around 75% and the fuel flow gauge reads 10gph. Can obviously get it down lower
if we use 20" or even 18" for sigh-seeing cruse. The bottom line is that
you are pretty much on your own to figure the power setting out.
Reuven Silberman
NWT
Greg Williams <mr.gsun@gmail.com> wrote: I'm flying a 1160 lb RV-7 with Hartzell
Blended Airfoil Constant Speed Prop, Aerosport IO-360 180 hp engine, Lightspeed
Ignition with wheelpants & standard fairings installed. Does anyone have
a similar plane with verified performance numbers? I don't believe the original
builder's RPM vs MP vs GPH numbers. Thanks, Greg
"No pressure, no diamonds".
~Thomas Carlyle
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Performance Chart |
On 12 May 2007, at 15:40, Greg Williams wrote:
> I'm flying a 1160 lb RV-7 with Hartzell Blended Airfoil Constant
> Speed Prop, Aerosport IO-360 180 hp engine, Lightspeed Ignition
> with wheelpants & standard fairings installed. Does anyone have a
> similar plane with verified performance numbers? I don't believe
> the original builder's RPM vs MP vs GPH numbers.
The RPM vs MP vs GPH relationship should be independent of the prop,
aircraft model and weight.
What RPM vs MP vs GPH numbers does the original builder quote, and
what do you think they should be? What leaning technique are you
using? What altitude and temperature did you use for your testing?
How accurate is your fuel flow indicator, based on the errors in fuel
needed to fill the tanks after a flight?
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Performance Chart |
Hey, Thank you. It's better than what I've got now, I think. I'll try
your numbers and see what happens. I would like to figure it out but don't
really know where to start. The chart that I was given reads as below:
*Cruise Performance at 8,000':*
*KIAS*
*RPM*
*MAP*
*Fuel Flow*
*% Power*
168
2550
22.5
10.1 GPH
75%
161
2350
22.5
8.5 GPH
65%
150
2400
20.0
6.8 GPH
55%
What do you think?
I can't get anywhere near 168 KIAS with these 75% power settings.
Greg
On 5/12/07, Reuven Silberman <pilots2@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Greg,
>
> Got almost the same setup in a 7A but with mags. We had the same questions
> a year and a half ago. Called Lycoming and had them send an 8 1/2" by 11"
> power chart (the original is a 5 x 8 sheet that is all but unreadable and
> unuseable) for an IO360 and used that to start with. Would have no clue on
> how the Lightspeed would affect the power chart. We use 22" at 2400 rpm and
> I believe that is around 75% and the fuel flow gauge reads 10gph. Can
> obviously get it down lower if we use 20" or even 18" for sigh-seeing
> cruse. The bottom line is that you are pretty much on your own to figure
> the power setting out.
>
> Reuven Silberman
> NWT
>
> *Greg Williams <mr.gsun@gmail.com>* wrote:
>
> I'm flying a 1160 lb RV-7 with Hartzell Blended Airfoil Constant Speed
> Prop, Aerosport IO-360 180 hp engine, Lightspeed Ignition
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Performance Chart |
Kevin, Thanks for the info. I just posted the chart I was given. I've
tried it recently at 8000 ft. It was 36 deg F outside. I leaned it until
RPM dropped a bit then back up just a tad (very unscientific, I agree). The
EGT temp readouts are kind of slow to change so I haven't yet got "rich of
peak" figured out. The engine seems to run just fine at the settings I've
been given. Just doesn't agree with IAS numbers or GPS numbers on a calm
day.
Appreciate your expertise.
Greg
On 5/12/07, Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> On 12 May 2007, at 15:40, Greg Williams wrote:
>
> > I'm flying a 1160 lb RV-7 with Hartzell Blended Airfoil Constant
> > Speed Prop, Aerosport IO-360 180 hp engine, Lightspeed Ignition
> > with wheelpants & standard fairings installed. Does anyone have a
> > similar plane with verified performance numbers? I don't believe
> > the original builder's RPM vs MP vs GPH numbers.
>
>
> The RPM vs MP vs GPH relationship should be independent of the prop,
> aircraft model and weight.
>
> What RPM vs MP vs GPH numbers does the original builder quote, and
> what do you think they should be? What leaning technique are you
> using? What altitude and temperature did you use for your testing?
> How accurate is your fuel flow indicator, based on the errors in fuel
> needed to fill the tanks after a flight?
>
> Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
> Ottawa, Canada
> http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Performance Chart |
In a message dated 5/12/2007 8:33:02 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
mr.gsun+rv-list@gmail.com writes:
Cruise Performance at 8,000':
KIAS
RPM
MAP
Fuel Flow
% Power
168
2550
22.5
10.1 GPH
75%
161
2350
22.5
8.5 GPH
65%
150
2400
20.0
6.8 GPH
55%
What do you think?
I can't get anywhere near 168 KIAS with these 75% power settings.
==================================================
My 6A is pretty much in agreement with this data.
GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A, C/S, Flying 845hrs, Silicon Valley, CA)
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Performance Chart |
Greg,
Should have added additional info. At 24" / 2400 we consistantly true out at
180K above 5,000 ft. Obviously the gas consumption is wallet busting. At 22"
/ 2400 we consistantly get 170K true at the prev mentioned 10gph. 20" / 2400
gets in the 160 - 165K range and a more reasonable 8 to 9 gph.
Reuven
Greg Williams <mr.gsun+rv-list@gmail.com> wrote: Hey, Thank you. It's better
than what I've got now, I think. I'll try your numbers and see what happens.
I would like to figure it out but don't really know where to start. The chart
that I was given reads as below:
Cruise Performance at 8,000':
KIAS
RPM
MAP
Fuel Flow
% Power
168
2550
22.5
10.1 GPH
75%
161
2350
22.5
8.5 GPH
65%
150
2400
20.0
6.8 GPH
55%
What do you think?
I can't get anywhere near 168 KIAS with these 75% power settings.
Greg
On 5/12/07, Reuven Silberman <pilots2@yahoo.com> wrote: Greg,
Got almost the same setup in a 7A but with mags. We had the same questions a year
and a half ago. Called Lycoming and had them send an 8 1/2" by 11" power chart
(the original is a 5 x 8 sheet that is all but unreadable and unuseable) for
an IO360 and used that to start with. Would have no clue on how the Lightspeed
would affect the power chart. We use 22" at 2400 rpm and I believe that is
around 75% and the fuel flow gauge reads 10gph. Can obviously get it down lower
if we use 20" or even 18" for sigh-seeing cruse. The bottom line is that
you are pretty much on your own to figure the power setting out.
Reuven Silberman
NWT
Greg Williams <mr.gsun@gmail.com > wrote: I'm flying a 1160 lb RV-7 with Hartzell
Blended Airfoil Constant Speed Prop, Aerosport IO-360 180 hp engine, Lightspeed
Ignition
"No pressure, no diamonds".
~Thomas Carlyle
Message 13
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| Subject: | Performance Chart |
At standard temp (approx 32-35 F) and 8,000 MSL does 168 KIAS equal 188-190
knots true airspeed? The typical 6A with 180hp does not accomplish this,
IMHO.
Dale
Do not archive
_____
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Vanremog@aol.com
Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2007 12:08 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Performance Chart
In a message dated 5/12/2007 8:33:02 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
mr.gsun+rv-list@gmail.com writes:
Cruise Performance at 8,000':
KIAS
RPM
MAP
Fuel Flow
% Power
168
2550
22.5
10.1 GPH
75%
161
2350
22.5
8.5 GPH
65%
150
2400
20.0
6.8 GPH
55%
What do you think?
I can't get anywhere near 168 KIAS with these 75% power settings.
=========================
My 6A is pretty much in agreement with this data.
GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A, C/S, Flying 845hrs, Silicon Valley, CA)
_____
See what's free at AOL.com <http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000503> .
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