---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 05/26/07: 7 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:47 AM - Re: skin dents (Patrick Kelley) 2. 06:18 AM - Re: skin dents (Sam Buchanan) 3. 06:46 AM - Re: skin dents (Dale Ensing) 4. 07:22 AM - Re: skin dents (Patrick Kelley) 5. 08:05 AM - Spinner wobble (George Inman 204 287 8334) 6. 08:47 AM - Re: skin dents (Sam Buchanan) 7. 03:32 PM - Best software for logging build progress? (pequeajim) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:47:20 AM PST US From: "Patrick Kelley" Subject: RE: RV-List: skin dents Again, thanks to everyone who replied. I've tried to take close-up pictures of the dinged rivets but bare aluminum defeats my camera's auto-focus and even the manual pictures are difficult because light does funny things reflecting off the skin. However, there are pictures on my project website, http://www.flion.com/rv6a/Default.htm, that show some of the riveting from a distance, for what it's worth. I'm afraid you won't be able to tell much. However, I've been given the word from some locals that, while he is still on the rolls as a TC and has an A&P IA, no one pays much attention to him anymore. One of the locals (not a homebuilder or TC) inspected my airframe and assured me there was no problem other than cosmetic. He's offered to help me fix some of the dings that we can and said that, while he might redo one HS skin (the first I ever riveted) for cosmetic reasons, it shouldn't be an issue. He wasn't a fan of the filler route, because it would hide a rivet and leave an obvious gap in the pattern, but then went into some ideas to 'fake' a rivet in the filler. So the upshot is, I should be Ok. I still need to locate a TC (and there are some not as far away as PHX) to do the inspections for insurance, but at least I can quit worrying that I need to smelt down my work and start over. Boy, what a horrible experience that was. I think the big lesson learned here is not to blindly trust authority. I may be an amateur and don't trust my own skills completely, but that guy with a lifetime of experience behind him was completely off base. I also learned I need to ask around some more before I hire someone to do something for me. Thanks again for everyone's support and encouragement. Pat Kelley - RV-6A - tying up loose ends while waiting for avionics ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:18:21 AM PST US From: Sam Buchanan Subject: Re: RV-List: skin dents Patrick Kelley wrote: I still > need to locate a TC (and there are some not as far away as PHX) to do the > inspections for insurance, but at least I can quit worrying that I need to > smelt down my work and start over. Patrick, Sorry to hear you had an unpleasant Tech Counselor experience. I am confident yours was the rare exception and hopefully your story won't result in other builders hesitating to ask for a Tech Counselor visit. I don't think the Tech visits will have any impact on insurance rates. At one time there was an incentive when insuring but I'm pretty sure that particular program no longer exist. The value in participation in the Tech Counselor program is for your own safety and confidence. > Boy, what a horrible experience that was. I think the big lesson learned > here is not to blindly trust authority. I may be an amateur and don't trust > my own skills completely, but that guy with a lifetime of experience behind > him was completely off base. Yep, a healthy dose of skepticism is often useful! :-) I also learned I need to ask around some more > before I hire someone to do something for me. Thanks again for everyone's > support and encouragement. Hire?? I certainly hope you didn't pay for your Tech Counselor visit. These visits are supposed to be voluntary with the possible exception of free lunch or some help with gas money. Best wishes for a speedy conclusion to your project; you will love your new plane! Sam Buchanan http://thervjournal.com EAA Technical Counselor #4291 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:46:27 AM PST US From: "Dale Ensing" Subject: Re: RV-List: skin dents Your insurance rates may not be less because of TC reviews, but it may help with your airworthiness inspection. The FAA inspector that did my 6A asked me in our first conversation (while I was still building) if I had a TC look at the airplane and when he came for the visit he asked to see the TC reviews. But the best reason for a TC review of your project is your own safety. Dale Ensing RV-6A EAA TC #3061 > > Patrick, > > Sorry to hear you had an unpleasant Tech Counselor experience. I am > confident yours was the rare exception and hopefully your story won't > result in other builders hesitating to ask for a Tech Counselor visit. > > I don't think the Tech visits will have any impact on insurance rates. At > one time there was an incentive when insuring but I'm pretty sure that > particular program no longer exist. The value in participation in the Tech > Counselor program is for your own safety and confidence. > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:22:35 AM PST US From: "Patrick Kelley" Subject: RE: RV-List: skin dents As far as hire goes, he was coming from a distance so I was happy to pay a small amount to cover his gas, etc. If I get someone from farther away, I would still expect to help defer their travel; gas ain't cheap. I hadn't heard that the EAA insurance program or the tech inspection incentive had ended. But I'd still get the inspections, especially if I can get a TC with RV experience. Actually, I was lucky enough to have Miles Towner (Van's prototype shop employee) look over my project and he pointed out a few RV specific things that I would never have known about. (He also didn't say anything bad about my riveting quality but then again he didn't do a thorough inspection during his visit.) So I agree that the TC is a valuable thing. However, food for thought: There are not always Tech Counselors or even other builders available. When I started this project in Ann Arbor in '94 I was unable to locate any nearby builders. There was an active group somewhat north of Detroit, but the only help I got was from the shop at American International Airways, and they didn't know anything about the RV. In Chicago I could have had tons of help, but I wasn't able to work on the project there. In Flagstaff, I briefly met with a -9A builder, before he moved his project south, and there is now another builder who is about the same level as I. You know my TC situation. Frankly, I've been building in a vacuum and that's what allowed this guy to throw me for such a spin - I'm no judge of my own work. It'd be wonderful to have someone with experience looking over my shoulder, but what do you do when there's no one available? Pat Kelley - RV-6A -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam Buchanan Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2007 6:17 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: skin dents Patrick Kelley wrote: I still > need to locate a TC (and there are some not as far away as PHX) to do the > inspections for insurance, but at least I can quit worrying that I need to > smelt down my work and start over. Patrick, Sorry to hear you had an unpleasant Tech Counselor experience. I am confident yours was the rare exception and hopefully your story won't result in other builders hesitating to ask for a Tech Counselor visit. I don't think the Tech visits will have any impact on insurance rates. At one time there was an incentive when insuring but I'm pretty sure that particular program no longer exist. The value in participation in the Tech Counselor program is for your own safety and confidence. > Boy, what a horrible experience that was. I think the big lesson learned > here is not to blindly trust authority. I may be an amateur and don't trust > my own skills completely, but that guy with a lifetime of experience behind > him was completely off base. Yep, a healthy dose of skepticism is often useful! :-) I also learned I need to ask around some more > before I hire someone to do something for me. Thanks again for everyone's > support and encouragement. Hire?? I certainly hope you didn't pay for your Tech Counselor visit. These visits are supposed to be voluntary with the possible exception of free lunch or some help with gas money. Best wishes for a speedy conclusion to your project; you will love your new plane! Sam Buchanan http://thervjournal.com EAA Technical Counselor #4291 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:05:59 AM PST US From: George Inman 204 287 8334 Subject: RV-List: Spinner wobble You can spin the prop on a table just on a smooth piece of plastic with a round piece of wood tacked in the center to fit the center hole of the prop or prop.extension. I have pics. of my setup if you want. Subject: RV-List: Spinner wobble I am following the plans for mounting the spinner. Is the general consensus that these instructions are sufficient to prevent spinner wobble? Thanks! Vince H. George H. Inman ghinman@mts.net ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:47:09 AM PST US From: Sam Buchanan Subject: Re: RV-List: skin dents Patrick Kelley wrote: > > As far as hire goes, he was coming from a distance so I was happy to pay a > small amount to cover his gas, etc. If I get someone from farther away, I > would still expect to help defer their travel; gas ain't cheap. No doubt the gas money was appreciated and appropriate. I've had "offers" to inspect projects a state or so away and it seemed the builders expected me to drop whatever I was doing and burn my RV money for the privilege of flying to see their projects. ;-) I've never accepted gratuities for the many projects inspected in the north Alabama area and the technical counselor visits have been most enjoyable. > However, food for thought: There are not always Tech Counselors or even > other builders available. When I started this project in Ann Arbor in '94 I > was unable to locate any nearby builders. There was an active group > somewhat north of Detroit, but the only help I got was from the shop at > American International Airways, and they didn't know anything about the RV. > In Chicago I could have had tons of help, but I wasn't able to work on the > project there. In Flagstaff, I briefly met with a -9A builder, before he > moved his project south, and there is now another builder who is about the > same level as I. You know my TC situation. Frankly, I've been building in > a vacuum and that's what allowed this guy to throw me for such a spin - I'm > no judge of my own work. It'd be wonderful to have someone with experience > looking over my shoulder, but what do you do when there's no one available? This does present a difficult situation for a builder. Perhaps a very good option for a builder who expects to be working in a vacuum is to take advantage of one of the excellent weekend RV construction workshops. In my opinion, the expense of traveling to the workshop would be a bargain considering the potential problems and aggravation that could arise from constructing an aircraft with *no* technical background. After "graduating" from a workshop, the builder will have not only a good sense of what is acceptable workmanship, but the confidence to pursue the process. I have also had a couple of builders from quite some distance who took the time to bring their completed vertical or horizontal stab to my shop or hangar so we could discuss any questions they had concerning the build. The internet, in spite of potential pitfalls, is the greatest resource ever offered to a custom plane builder. The builder who is working without local assistance needs to get totally up to speed on the various forums and email lists and read them religiously. Only by sifting through a lot of info can the isolated builder begin to separate the wheat from the chaff. Many times close relationships with reliable distant builders are established and their input can be invaluable even though they may be a coast away. Building in a location without local assistance puts an additional burden on the builder to do whatever is necessary to insure a safe aircraft. And, support needs to be gained in whatever way is necessary in order to have a build experience that is not only safe but enjoyable. There is no point in taking on a huge project such as building a plane if the process isn't fun and fulfilling. Patrick, I admire your tenacity over the years of pursuing your dream and am confident you will see the project to conclusion. Let us know how we can help. Sam Buchanan ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 03:32:22 PM PST US Subject: RV-List: Best software for logging build progress? From: "pequeajim" What is the best software for logging your work building an aircraft? I have heard of KitLog Pro. Is this the best? I also want to be able to publish my progress to the web. Jim! 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