---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 05/30/07: 21 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:13 AM - Re: CHT vents (Dale Walter) 2. 02:50 AM - CHT Vents (PGLong@aol.com) 3. 07:12 AM - cylinder casting flash (Frazier, Vincent A) 4. 08:47 AM - Need Master Cylinder Spring Info (Snow, Daniel A.) 5. 09:19 AM - Re: Insurance Limitations (work around but takes effort) () 6. 01:20 PM - Elevator tips - how to finish? (Bruce Swayze) 7. 01:20 PM - Re: Need Master Cylinder Spring Info (Glaeser, Dennis A) 8. 01:38 PM - Re: Need Master Cylinder Spring Info (Fiveonepw@aol.com) 9. 01:43 PM - Major Price reduction (Garry LeGare) 10. 02:03 PM - Need Master Cylinder Spring Info (James H Nelson) 11. 02:29 PM - Re: Need Master Cylinder Spring Info (PJ Seipel) 12. 02:34 PM - Re: Re: Need Master Cylinder Spring Info (Fiveonepw@aol.com) 13. 02:42 PM - Re: Elevator tips - how to finish? (Fiveonepw@aol.com) 14. 03:06 PM - Re: Need Master Cylinder Spring Info (Garry) 15. 07:15 PM - Re: Elevator tips - how to finish? (Tim Bolton) 16. 07:15 PM - GRT EIS 4000 and SKYSPORTS CAPACITANCE FUEL PROBES (RV4WGH@aol.com) 17. 07:40 PM - Re: Elevator tips - how to finish? (Larry Bowen) 18. 07:53 PM - Re: GRT EIS 4000 and SKYSPORTS CAPACITANCE FUEL PROBES (Bill VonDane) 19. 08:38 PM - Re: CHT vents (Bobby Hester) 20. 08:39 PM - Re: Nose gear lube (Bobby Hester) 21. 09:32 PM - Re: Major Price reduction (Garry LeGare) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:13:39 AM PST US From: "Dale Walter" Subject: RE: RV-List: CHT vents The point about rpm rise at shut down has no bearing on the mixture at power settings well above idle. Has the accuracy of the CHT gauge been verified twice? I noticed on your website the sealing around the inlets. Can you rig up a couple tape strips to determine if that seal is fluttering during flight? The tape needs to be placed so that engine rock during startup and shutdown will not tear it loose. Good luck, Dale _____ From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Huft Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 11:04 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: CHT vents Bobby, have you checked the mag timing? Not using LASAR are you? The other common problem is too lean a mixture...do you have the usual 50 rpm rise when you pull the mixture to idle cutoff when shutting down? The baffles that come with the engine, that go in between the cylinders often have some pretty big holes where they go up against the case. I think Kevin is right, the basic design of the cowl has worked on many similar engines...I wouldn't cut it up unless I had tried every other possibility. Good luck, John ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:50:09 AM PST US From: PGLong@aol.com Subject: RV-List: CHT Vents Bobby, I had kind of a reverse problem, but also may work for you. My RV-4 couldn't warm the oil up enough. I closed by about 40-5-%, the lower cowling area where the exhaust and air exit from cooling the engine. This brought up my oil temps to normal. I just put a baffle plate of sorts to throttle the air leaving. I would think that if you opened your up to allow more air to exit, you would also get more air in and hence do more cooling. Wish you the best. Pat Long PGLong@aol.com N120PL RV 4 Bay City, Michigan 3CM ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:12:21 AM PST US Subject: RV-List: cylinder casting flash From: "Frazier, Vincent A" http://vincesrocket.com/Engine%20and%20Prop.htm for photos and info on removing casting excess flashing. http://www.vincesrocket.com/Additions%20after%2010-27-04.htm louver installation. I saw a 40 deg drop in CHTs. My CHTs rarely exceeds 360F in cruise and almost never hits 400F, even in a climb. The best tailwheel available for your RV or Rocket... see below. Cool vinyl graphics available too. Vince Frazier Screaming Eagle Graphics and Accessories, LLC 3965 Caborn Road Mount Vernon, IN 47620 812-464-1839 http://vincesrocket.com/products.htm ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:47:38 AM PST US Subject: RV-List: Need Master Cylinder Spring Info From: "Snow, Daniel A." My brakes are sticking and I would like to install return springs on the master cylinders. Has anyone added springs, and if so, can you provide details? Thanks, Daniel Snow RV-9A, 34 Flight Test hours ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:19:47 AM PST US From: Subject: RV-List: Re: Insurance Limitations (work around but takes effort) Subject: RV-List: Fw: Insurance Limitations Yes most will not do first flight or Phase I. However IF you participate in the EAA builder advisory program and EAA flight adviser programs (both two and different things) and get TYPE training, they will wave that restrictions, but you must jump through hoops. I have 1,200 RV hours and 15,000 total, built a RV before and they still want me to do this for first flight coverage on my new RV. If you just show up and say no RV time, zero hours on airframe, they will say OK, take your chance for the first 40 hours than call us basically. If you go in with a certificate in RV transition training and approval from the EAA advisers you can get first flight/Phase I coverage from some companies. Frankly it is all a good idea insurance or not. If the premiums are high enough you can get insurance for a student pilot, a brick and cardboard wings with a jump from a bridge. I'm not an insurance company fan, but there is some logic to their madness, not paying out claims to people that prang it in early in their flight test. George ATP/CFI-II-ME, RV-7 --------------------------------- Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 01:20:00 PM PST US From: Bruce Swayze Subject: RV-List: Elevator tips - how to finish? Fellow builders, I decided to work on the fiberglass tips on my empennage while waiting on my wing kit. The newer RV-7 elevators have lead counterweights that stick out, rather than lie flush inside the counterbalance arm. The fiberglass tip covers the sides of the lead counterweight nicely, but the forward end is exposed and it shows. The tip doesn't cover it. I'm wondering how to cover it. How are you guys doing it? I've looked at a lot of web sites, but I haven't found anybody yet that details how they did this. I'm looking for some details and/or pictures. It's very tempting to just slather on some super-fill or some Evercoat Rage or whatever, and sand it down smooth and contour it. But I'm wondering how well these materials stick to lead? Has anybody researched this? And what about avoiding cracks developing over time? It seems to me there should be at least one layer of bid fiberglass over the lead, bonded to the fiberglass tip. Has anyone done this? Any suggestions or pictures? Thanks! Bruce Swayze RV-7A Empennage finished Waiting on Wing Kit -- ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:20:08 PM PST US Subject: RV-List: Re: Need Master Cylinder Spring Info From: "Glaeser, Dennis A" I'm not flying yet, but decided to add 'helper' springs while I have better access (top fwd skin not yet riveted). I went to the aviation aisle of my hardware store and found springs that were 3/8" ID and 3" long. 3.5" long would be better, but that was all they had. I stretched the springs a bit to get more 'help' at the end of the stroke. Another approach would be to either add washers, or a short piece of tubing to compress the spring when the shaft is extended. The ends of the springs had to be bent away a bit because they dragged on the shaft, but once that was done, they slide easily. I put a washer down first, then slid on the spring. I was going to put a washer at the top as well, but it interfered with the mount. I wish I had thought of doing this before the rudder pedals were in the airplane, and I don't envy you having to do it on a finished airplane. Dennis Glaeser RV-7A - starting to paint, waiting for my engine ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --- My brakes are sticking and I would like to install return springs on the master cylinders. Has anyone added springs, and if so, can you provide details? Thanks, Daniel Snow RV-9A, 34 Flight Test hours ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 01:38:44 PM PST US From: Fiveonepw@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Need Master Cylinder Spring Info In a message dated 5/30/2007 10:49:58 AM Central Daylight Time, Daniel.Snow@wancdf.com writes: Has anyone added springs, and if so, can you provide details? >>> Here's what I did: _http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=17458_ (http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=17458) ...and by the way- I just added the above log entry to my Expercraft website after not even looking at it in over a year, and even with a new format was very easy- Riggen is a genius and I highly recommend his service! (unsolicited, uncompensated and unconditional support for Expercraft- great stuff- Thanks again Rob!) >From The PossumWorks in TN Mark ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 01:43:08 PM PST US From: Garry LeGare Subject: RV-List: Major Price reduction My RV 6 is still available. It is listed online at the Trade a Plane website for $95,000. Besides what is listed in the ad there are a bunch of extras such as: spare prop governor ( 50 hrs TT) new complete ElectoAir electronic ignition systems with new wiring harness for the plugs Tail wheel used fuel pump and magneto Complete Lycoming service instructions, service manuals, parts manuals and overhaul manual. plus much more. The aircraft comes with a complete annual at time of sale and I'm willing to do the annual inspections for the next 5 years you just supply parts. Also I will spend 2 or 3 days with you going over the systems so that you are comfortable with them, before first flight. Also a complete flight check out is offered. I will be leaving for our summer home around June 15th so now is the time to make yourself the owner of a special RV6. The first person with $75,000. will take it away. Take care Garry "Casper" Legare (805) 438-3451 garry@versadek.com ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 02:03:32 PM PST US Subject: RV-List: Need Master Cylinder Spring Info From: James H Nelson Dennis, Use a "set collar" on the top to provide the tension you want. I did it to my brake cyl on both sides. check out my web site for the details. If you can not find it there, I can e-mail you the pix I have on how I did it. You should use a flanged oillite bushing on the bottom so the spring rides on it rather than the topof the cyl. www.expercraft.com/jimn Jim Nelson RV9-A N15JN 95% done and 50% to go ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 02:29:30 PM PST US From: PJ Seipel Subject: Re: RV-List: Need Master Cylinder Spring Info I used the following from McMaster Carr (www.mcmaster.com): 1 6389K625 Nylon Bearing Flanged, for 3/8" Shaft Dia, 1/2" Od, 3/8" Length, Packs of 5 $1.71 1 9657K115 Steel Compression Spring Znc-Pltd Spring-Tempered, 3" L, 1/2" Od, .047" Dia, Packs of 12 $5.29 4 9946K13 Aluminum Set Screw Shaft Collar 3/8" Bore, 3/4" Outside Diameter, 3/8" Width $1.82 for a total cost of about $19 after shipping. Picture is attached. Not flying yet, so I don't know how well it works. PJ Seipel RV-10 #40032 Snow wrote: > > My brakes are sticking and I would like to install return springs on the > master cylinders. Has anyone added springs, and if so, can you provide > details? > > Thanks, > > Daniel Snow > RV-9A, 34 Flight Test hours > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:34:06 PM PST US From: Fiveonepw@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Need Master Cylinder Spring Info In a message dated 5/30/2007 3:23:11 PM Central Daylight Time, dennis.glaeser@eds.com writes: I wish I had thought of doing this before the rudder pedals were in the airplane, and I don't envy you having to do it on a finished airplane. Man, have you got THAT right! 8-) Mark do not archive ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:42:39 PM PST US From: Fiveonepw@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Elevator tips - how to finish? In a message dated 5/30/2007 3:22:57 PM Central Daylight Time, swayze@europa.com writes: How are you guys doing it? >>> I scored up the lead pretty well before installing the tips, then packed epoxy/flox mixture in around the weight forcing the mixture back some around the edges between the tip and weight, hoping this will stabilize it. Then I laid a patch of fine (6-8 oz.?) fiberglass cloth around the whole thing & smoothed/finished. Looks good so far (no paint yet) but not saying this is best method either. Kinda think the old style may have been an improvement... Mark ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 03:06:47 PM PST US From: "Garry" Subject: Re: RV-List: Need Master Cylinder Spring Info I agree with Jim Nelson's post. My brakes were dragging too, and Jim fixed me up with the Oillite bushings and set collars. The springs can be found at most major hardware stores. Works great! Check out Jim's website. Garry Stout RV-7A Tampa Florida ----- Original Message ----- From: "James H Nelson" Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 4:56 PM Subject: RV-List: Need Master Cylinder Spring Info > > Dennis, > Use a "set collar" on the top to provide the tension you want. I > did it to my brake cyl on both sides. check out my web site for the > details. If you can not find it there, I can e-mail you the pix I have > on how I did it. You should use a flanged oillite bushing on the bottom > so the spring rides on it rather than the topof the cyl. > > www.expercraft.com/jimn > > Jim Nelson > RV9-A > N15JN > > 95% done and 50% to go > > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:15:27 PM PST US From: "Tim Bolton" Subject: Re: RV-List: Elevator tips - how to finish? My brother in Atlanta just finished his tips. You may want to visit his website for ideas. http://www.n713db.com/ I've still got to do my tips so let us know what you decide. Tim Bolton Charlotte, NC www.TheRV7.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce Swayze" Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 4:17 PM Subject: RV-List: Elevator tips - how to finish? Fellow builders, I decided to work on the fiberglass tips on my empennage while waiting on my wing kit. The newer RV-7 elevators have lead counterweights that stick out, rather than lie flush inside the counterbalance arm. The fiberglass tip covers the sides of the lead counterweight nicely, but the forward end is exposed and it shows. The tip doesn't cover it. I'm wondering how to cover it. How are you guys doing it? I've looked at a lot of web sites, but I haven't found anybody yet that details how they did this. I'm looking for some details and/or pictures. It's very tempting to just slather on some super-fill or some Evercoat Rage or whatever, and sand it down smooth and contour it. But I'm wondering how well these materials stick to lead? Has anybody researched this? And what about avoiding cracks developing over time? It seems to me there should be at least one layer of bid fiberglass over the lead, bonded to the fiberglass tip. Has anyone done this? Any suggestions or pictures? Thanks! Bruce Swayze RV-7A Empennage finished Waiting on Wing Kit -- ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:15:27 PM PST US From: RV4WGH@aol.com Subject: RV-List: GRT EIS 4000 and SKYSPORTS CAPACITANCE FUEL PROBES Have any of you used the above combination? If so, were there interface problems? If so, how did you calibrate them? Looks like it will have to be done with the tanks removed from the wing. Regards, Wally Hunt Rockford, IL RV-4 Finishing Kit ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 07:40:26 PM PST US From: "Larry Bowen" Subject: Re: RV-List: Elevator tips - how to finish? So you and your brother are both building the same plane? Very cool! -- Larry Bowen RV-8 300+ Hrs, RV-7QB in progress... Larry@BowenAero.com http://BowenAero.com do not archive On 5/30/07, Tim Bolton wrote: > > > My brother in Atlanta just finished his tips. You may want to visit his > website for ideas. http://www.n713db.com/ I've still got to do my tips so > let us know what you decide. > > Tim Bolton > Charlotte, NC > www.TheRV7.com > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 07:53:48 PM PST US From: Bill VonDane Subject: Re: RV-List: GRT EIS 4000 and SKYSPORTS CAPACITANCE FUEL PROBES Hey Wally... There are two different skysports fuel systems and only one of them works with the EIS... I think its the one that uses the 0-5 volt output, but dont quote me... See here: http://airstuff.com/eshop/10Browse.asp Call Sandy at GRT and she will tell you which one you need and how to calibrate it... 616-245-7700 -Bill RV4WGH@aol.com wrote: > Have any of you used the above combination? > > If so, were there interface problems? > > If so, how did you calibrate them? Looks like it will have to be done > with the tanks removed from the wing. > > Regards, > > Wally Hunt > Rockford, IL > RV-4 Finishing Kit > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > See what's free at AOL.com > . > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 08:38:22 PM PST US From: Bobby Hester Subject: Re: RV-List: CHT vents I just double checked the timing on my Lightspeed Ign.. The timing was just slightly off. I adjusted it and it is perfect now. Test flight did not show any change in my CHT's. What I did find out is that I can tell if the timing is correct by looking at the RPM drop on the Electronic Ign. Before makeing the adjustment I had about a drop of about 20 RPM. The first adjustment I made was not right and I got about a 200 RPM drop. I found my mistake and made the correct adjustment and now I only have a 10 RPM drop. When checking the timing on the lightspeed, with a automotive type timing light, you disconnect the Manifold pressure hose to retard the timing, The engine run quite a bit rougher like that, which I beleive is how it would be running with two mags. When the line is connected back it advances the timing and runs much smoother, all this at about 850 RPM. This is some good info to find out. Now I've got to get to work on those wheel pants and leg farings. Superior XP-0360 65hrs and counting :-) Surfing the web with my laptop from Hopkinsville, KY Visit my RV7A website: http://webpages.charter.net/bobbyhester/MyFlyingRV7A.htm Bobby Hester wrote: > My engine is a Superior XP-0360 > There is no casting flashing on the cylinders > I added a washer at the rear screw/bolt on the #3 cylinder to help > cool that cylinder. > I've sealed all holes that I can find. > Baffling seems to be sealing farely well. > The cowl exit is cut off even, all the way across. > >Surfing the web with my laptop from Hopkinsville, KY >Visit my RV7A website: http://webpages.charter.net/bobbyhester/MyFlyingRV7A.htm > > > Doug Gray wrote: > >> >>There has been discussion about two issues that may be a factor for you, >>first was casting flash obstructing airflow and the second was adding >>some spacers (washers only) between baffles and cylinders at the >>mounting bolts. >> >>Sorry I cannot be more specific I not familiar with the specifics, >>others may be able to add detail. >> >>Doug Gray >> >> >> >>On Tue, 2007-05-29 at 08:18 -0500, Tim Bryan wrote: >> >> >>> >>>Bobby, >>> >>>My plane was essentially self grounded till I could fix the high CHT >>>problem. I tightened up the cowl, sealed around the front intake ramps, put >>>a door across the back of my oil cooler (cooler temps around 160-170) and >>>absolutely no joy. Finally I added louvers I got from Alex De Dominicis in >>>Texas. I think you can reach him through his website at >>>http://www.RVtraining.com After this my plane was flying again. My CHT >>>will still climb to near 450 on climb out sometimes but will be under 400 >>>for cruise. They do make a difference. I cannot say this is the cure all >>>as Kevin mentioned there is a reason mine runs hot and so many others don't. >>>I just don't know what it is. >>> >>>My next step is to remove some more of the lower cowling around the exhaust >>>area as mine is particularly smaller since my scoop portion actually hangs >>>back over the airframe about 2 inches. I am going to remove all of that >>>this week before I fly this coming weekend. If you haven't done that, it >>>would be advisable. I am still trying to get mine down quite a bit more. >>> >>>My plane is an RV-6 with 0-360A1A and constant speed prop. I am flying >>>without wheel pants or leg fairings. >>>Tim >>> >>> >>> >>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list- >>>>server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Horton >>>>Sent: Monday, May 28, 2007 8:47 AM >>>>To: rv-list@matronics.com >>>>Subject: Re: RV-List: CHT vents >>>> >>>> >>>>On Mon, 28 May 2007 07:50:47 -0500 >>>>Bobby Hester wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>>Ron, I saw an old post about your cowl louvers. Are they what made the >>>>>big differance? My CHT's are getting up to 455 by about 2500 ft on climb >>>>>out and then I level off til they come down to about 430 then I climb >>>>>some more. At cruise I am seeing 410-420. I would really like to see >>>>>them more like 350 at cruise. This is at about 87 degree F OAT on the >>>>>ground. Any other suggestions? Were did you get you louvers? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>Bobby - If I understand properly, you have a 180 hp engine. There are >>>>many, many RV-7/7As flying with this engine without CHT problems. While >>>>adding cowl louvers might bring your CHTs down, I fear that you would >>>>simply be curing the symptom, without really fixing the basic problem. >>>>This could lead to greater grief down the road, if the basic problem is >>>>significant. For example, some people have high CHTs due to a too lean >>>>mixture, caused by the wrong carb. If this were the problem, it would be >>>>far better to find it and fix it now. >>>> >>>>Kevin Horton >>>>Ottawa, Canada >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 08:39:25 PM PST US From: Bobby Hester Subject: Re: RV-List: Nose gear lube I took it apart cleaned it up and lubed it real good, no more herkie jerkies, nice and smooth :-) Surfing the web with my laptop from Hopkinsville, KY Visit my RV7A website: http://webpages.charter.net/bobbyhester/MyFlyingRV7A.htm Bobby Hester wrote: > > My swiveling nose wheel has gotten jerky. Will just squirting a few > shots of grease in the zert fitting take care of this or do I need to > take it all apart clean, grease and reassemble? 65 hrs. on it. > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 09:32:07 PM PST US From: Garry LeGare Subject: Re: RV-List: Major Price reduction The web link is www.trade-a-plane.com/unprotected/specs/52371.html Greg Papendick wrote: >Garry, > >I could not find your RV6 on the Trada a Plane website. Could you send >a spec sheet and pictures? > >Regards, >Greg > >Garry LeGare wrote on 5/30/2007, 4:41 PM: > > > > > My RV 6 is still available. It is listed online at the Trade a Plane > > website for $95,000. > > Besides what is listed in the ad there are a bunch of extras such as: > > spare prop governor ( 50 hrs TT) > > new complete ElectoAir electronic ignition systems with new wiring > > harness for the plugs > > Tail wheel > > used fuel pump and magneto > > Complete Lycoming service instructions, service manuals, parts manuals > > and overhaul manual. > > plus much more. > > The aircraft comes with a complete annual at time of sale and I'm > > willing to do the annual inspections for the next 5 years you just > > supply parts. > > Also I will spend 2 or 3 days with you going over the systems so that > > you are comfortable with them, before first flight. > > Also a complete flight check out is offered. > > I will be leaving for our summer home around June 15th so now is the > > time to make yourself the owner of a special RV6. The first person with > > $75,000. will take it away. > > Take care > > Garry "Casper" Legare (805) 438-3451 > > garry@versadek.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rv-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rv-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.