---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 06/19/07: 16 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:11 AM - Re: Supplier Problem (Chuck Jensen) 2. 05:49 AM - Re: Supplier Problem (Bob Leffler) 3. 06:40 AM - Re: Supplier Problem (Joseph Larson) 4. 06:50 AM - Re: Supplier Problem (Ron Lee) 5. 08:54 AM - Re: Supplier Problem (John Fasching) 6. 08:54 AM - Re: Supplier Problem (Darrell Reiley) 7. 10:00 AM - Re: Supplier Problem (Ron Lee) 8. 10:12 AM - Supplier Problem (John Fasching) 9. 03:37 PM - Re: Breather run into exhaust (nuff said) () 10. 04:39 PM - Re: Re: Breather run into exhaust (nuff said) (Ron Lee) 11. 05:27 PM - LP4-3 Rivets (H.Ivan Haecker) 12. 06:33 PM - Re: LP4-3 Rivets (Todd & Kristen Neidinger) 13. 06:38 PM - Re: Supplier Problem (evmeg@snowcrest.net) 14. 06:38 PM - Re: LP4-3 Rivets (Charlie England) 15. 07:16 PM - Re: Supplier Problem (Joseph Larson) 16. 07:20 PM - Re: Re: Breather run into exhaust (nuff said) (Kyle Boatright) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:11:29 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV-List: Supplier Problem From: "Chuck Jensen" Take a number and get in line. Chuck What would you do? The first week of February, 2007, I deposited $1,000 with a well known RV-related supplier for a sub-assembly for an RV. After three months and no word I contacted the supplier only to learn that parts necessary for the product were not even ordered yet. How would you handle a situation like this? ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:49:44 AM PST US From: "Bob Leffler" Subject: RE: RV-List: Supplier Problem Share your experiences in a factual, non-bashing manner so that others don't end up in a similar situation with this vendor. I have no problems with vendors that experience delays and communicate regularly with their customers, but I have very little sympathy for vendors that don't keep their customer's informed of the issues and delays. -----Original Message----- What would you do? The first week of February, 2007, I deposited $1,000 with a well known RV-related supplier for a sub-assembly for an RV. After three months and no word I contacted the supplier only to learn that parts necessary for the product were not even ordered yet. How would you handle a situation like this? __________ NOD32 2338 (20070619) Information __________ ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:40:48 AM PST US From: Joseph Larson Subject: Re: RV-List: Supplier Problem It's now 4 months since you placed your order. Did the company tell you initially you should expect a multi-month delivery schedule? I would call them back and ask for the following: -Expected ship date -Reason for the lengthy delay -Reason to believe the delay has been resolved If I wasn't satisfied with the answers provided, I would politely ask for a refund. If the person you're talking to can't offer one, then talk to someone who can. So far, I'd keep it all polite and businesslike. If they refused the refund, it's basically war. I would then do the following: -Send them a certified letter telling them of the actions you're about to undergo. Include a history of your attempts to resolve the problem. -If you paid your deposit via credit card, contact the credit card company and request reversal of charges -If you mailed a check, it might qualify as mail fraud. Contact the post office or the attorney general in your state or the state where the supplier resides. -In the letter sent, I'd also tell them if you are forced to hire an attorney to resolve this issue, you will be demanding legal fees in addition to a refund. And as Bob said, I'd also post about your experiences complete with the name of the company involved so the rest of us know. -J On Jun 19, 2007, at 7:48 AM, Bob Leffler wrote: > > Share your experiences in a factual, non-bashing manner so that > others don't > end up in a similar situation with this vendor. > > I have no problems with vendors that experience delays and communicate > regularly with their customers, but I have very little sympathy for > vendors > that don't keep their customer's informed of the issues and delays. > > -----Original Message----- > > What would you do? > > The first week of February, 2007, I deposited $1,000 with a well known > RV-related supplier for a sub-assembly for an RV. After three > months and > > no word I contacted the supplier only to learn that parts necessary > for > the product were not even ordered yet. > > How would you handle a situation like this? > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:50:15 AM PST US From: "Ron Lee" Subject: Re: RV-List: Supplier Problem There is very little info to go on. Are you flying now? What part that is not in would ground you? Ron Lee do not archive > > What would you do? > > The first week of February, 2007, I deposited $1,000 with a well known > RV-related supplier for a sub-assembly for an RV. After three months and > > no word I contacted the supplier only to learn that parts necessary for > the product were not even ordered yet. > > How would you handle a situation like this? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________ NOD32 2338 (20070619) Information __________ > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:54:41 AM PST US From: John Fasching Subject: Re: RV-List: Supplier Problem Ron, After 12 years the slosh in my fuel tanks began to come loose. Rather than try to clean them out I asked Evan Johnson to build two new tanks for me. I cannot fly with the tanks, its just too dangerous. I have an aux tank that takes the place of the passenger so I can fly. The real problem is that my BFR is due no later than the 30th of this month or I won't be legal to fly and more importantly, my insurance won't be valid. No BFR on time, no coverage. Also flying to OSH looks remote right now too. some folks just don't deserve the business they get it appears. John Ron Lee wrote: > > There is very little info to go on. Are you flying now? What part > that is not in would ground you? > > Ron Lee > > do not archive > > >> >> What would you do? >> >> The first week of February, 2007, I deposited $1,000 with a well >> known RV-related supplier for a sub-assembly for an RV. After three >> months and >> >> no word I contacted the supplier only to learn that parts necessary >> for the product were not even ordered yet. >> >> How would you handle a situation like this? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> __________ NOD32 2338 (20070619) Information __________ >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:54:41 AM PST US From: Darrell Reiley Subject: Re: RV-List: Supplier Problem Sounds to me like you order a pre-built panel and they do take some time and there is usually a waiting list or waiting time. Call around to another vendor if this is the case. Darrell --- Joseph Larson wrote: > > > It's now 4 months since you placed your order. Did > the company tell > you initially you should expect a multi-month > delivery schedule? > > I would call them back and ask for the following: > > -Expected ship date > -Reason for the lengthy delay > -Reason to believe the delay has been resolved > > If I wasn't satisfied with the answers provided, I > would politely ask > for a refund. If the person you're talking to can't > offer one, then > talk to someone who can. > > So far, I'd keep it all polite and businesslike. If > they refused the > refund, it's basically war. I would then do the > following: > > -Send them a certified letter telling them of the > actions you're > about to undergo. Include a history of your > attempts to resolve the > problem. > -If you paid your deposit via credit card, contact > the credit card > company and request reversal of charges > -If you mailed a check, it might qualify as mail > fraud. Contact the > post office or the attorney general in your state or > the state where > the supplier resides. > -In the letter sent, I'd also tell them if you are > forced to hire an > attorney to resolve this issue, you will be > demanding legal fees in > addition to a refund. > > And as Bob said, I'd also post about your > experiences complete with > the name of the company involved so the rest of us > know. > > -J > > On Jun 19, 2007, at 7:48 AM, Bob Leffler wrote: > > > > > > Share your experiences in a factual, non-bashing > manner so that > > others don't > > end up in a similar situation with this vendor. > > > > I have no problems with vendors that experience > delays and communicate > > regularly with their customers, but I have very > little sympathy for > > vendors > > that don't keep their customer's informed of the > issues and delays. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > What would you do? > > > > The first week of February, 2007, I deposited > $1,000 with a well known > > RV-related supplier for a sub-assembly for an RV. > After three > > months and > > > > no word I contacted the supplier only to learn > that parts necessary > > for > > the product were not even ordered yet. > > > > How would you handle a situation like this? > > > > > > > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > > Web Forums! > > > > > Never miss an email again! Yahoo! Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail arrives. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/ ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:00:48 AM PST US From: "Ron Lee" Subject: Re: RV-List: Supplier Problem Why can't you do a BFR in another plane? Not ideal but at least you would not be grounded for that reason. Ron Lee ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Fasching" Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 9:53 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Supplier Problem > > Ron, > > After 12 years the slosh in my fuel tanks began to come loose. Rather > than try to clean them out I asked Evan Johnson to build two new tanks > for me. I cannot fly with the tanks, its just too dangerous. I have an > aux tank that takes the place of the passenger so I can fly. The real > problem is that my BFR is due no later than the 30th of this month or I > won't be legal to fly and more importantly, my insurance won't be > valid. No BFR on time, no coverage. > Also flying to OSH looks remote right now too. > > some folks just don't deserve the business they get it appears. > John > > Ron Lee wrote: >> >> There is very little info to go on. Are you flying now? What part >> that is not in would ground you? >> >> Ron Lee >> >> do not archive >> >> >>> >>> What would you do? >>> >>> The first week of February, 2007, I deposited $1,000 with a well >>> known RV-related supplier for a sub-assembly for an RV. After three >>> months and >>> >>> no word I contacted the supplier only to learn that parts necessary >>> for the product were not even ordered yet. >>> >>> How would you handle a situation like this? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> __________ NOD32 2338 (20070619) Information __________ >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:12:53 AM PST US From: John Fasching Subject: RV-List: Supplier Problem Well, perhaps my problem is about over...I just talked to Evan Johnson regarding my fuel tanks ordered early February, and he said he expects to ship them this coming Monday. I may make Oshkosh after all. Seems he has been out of the country for a bit which slows/stops things in a one-man operation. Maybe all will be well...thanks to several of you folks who offered assistance/advise. John ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 03:37:02 PM PST US From: Subject: RV-List: Re: Breather run into exhaust (nuff said) And in the end what did we learn? Nothing, because not one of our heroes has dared showed us how they did their super secret crankcase evacuation system with the exhaust or wet vacuum pump. May be its gerbils next? They say IT'S GREAT! but then can tell us why or show us how. Hummmm? Did they even try it? All I heard was sarcastic "straw-man" arguments and points made by saying, "Reno Racer" & "turbo-charger". What? The rest of the comments where about me or attacking me for various reasons? I guess I offended people because I went to engineering school and fly planes? Why would that be relevant? Sorry I went to school and fly planes for a living. Oh yea I don't think PCV is necessary or value added, and that really set the tribe off into a Tizzy. I dared disagree; how could I. Attn: Guys who just want to build your RV, the quickest way to finish and fly a nice RV, that is safe, reliable, light and fun is to follow the plans in my opinion. You can quote me. Leave off the exhaust sucker or wet vacuum pump for now. If you want to use it later, research it, call Lyc, Van and yes call a "Reno Racer" and ask them directly. BTW: super-charged or turbo- charged engines have more blow-by into the crank case than a normally aspirated engines like ours. (facts again darn it) Part of the fun is learning, and I am truly sorry that may be all you learned is there's a "gang" on the list who makes personal attacks to "put people into their place", so you might be intimidated from asking a question. That's a shame. If you need help email me direct; I'll help if I can and won't make fun of you even if you are a pilot or went to school. I am happy however if you learned to be careful and check it out for your self, not to unilaterally believe me or the experts. It is a good lesson, check it out and learn, your life or your wife or kids life may depend on it. Be careful with engine mods. Building is learning and is fun; ignore the dolts. Asbestos underwear on so flame away. Nuff said --------------------------------- Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 04:39:13 PM PST US From: "Ron Lee" Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Breather run into exhaust (nuff said) And in the end what did we learn? Nothing, Actually I may have learned something about the end of the breather hose. Although I am still a bit confuzzled how the end is cut apparently is important so that you don't pressurize it. Also having a whistle slot near the engine is good IF the end becomes obstructed. Ron Lee ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 05:27:24 PM PST US From: "H.Ivan Haecker" Subject: RV-List: LP4-3 Rivets Does anyone know if Aircraft Spruce sells a rivet that is equivalent to the LP4-3 that Van's supplies? I'm assembling an order for ACS but don't see the same rivet that Van's sells. I'm hoping to avoid an extra shipping and handling charge just for a few rivets. Ivan Haecker -4 1370 hrs. S.Cen.TX ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:33:35 PM PST US From: Todd & Kristen Neidinger Subject: Re: RV-List: LP4-3 Rivets I tracked this down when I first needed to order more: AVEX RIVETS (LP4-3) http://www.airpartsinc.com/catalog_gif/page18.htm Non-structural blind rivet. Aluminum rivet on steel stem. 1/8" diameter has 165 lbs. shear, 230 lbs. tensile. 5/32" diameter has 255 lbs. shear and 375 lbs. tensile. 1661 ( Low Profile ) Dome View this page Dia grip range Part # Price Each/100 1/8 .031 - .187 1661-0410 $7.95 5/32 .046 - .250 1661-0512i $7.95 Aircraft Spurce Cherry Rivets MINIMUM RIVET SHEAR AND TENSILE STRENGTH (Ibs.) RIVET DIA. BS SERIES ALUM RIVET / STEEL MAND. GRADE 19 MS SERIES MONEL RIVET / STEEL MAND.GRADE 40 CC SERIES STAINLESS RIVET / STAINLESS MAND. GRADE 51 Shear Tens Shear Tens Shear Tens 3/32 125 175 200 300 230 280 1/8 200 325 350 525 450 600 5/32 325 450 600 900 750 1000 3/16 430 650 750 1100 1000 1300 1/4 750 1050 1450 2150 1700 2250 When I asked Vans about using these: Could you please provide me with the shear and tensile strength > numbers for the lp4-3 and lp4-4 rivets? They're around 170 shear, 220 tensile, a little less than the BSP type. Who makes these rivets? Gesipa Mfg, NC > > Would the Cherry BSPS-43(44) or the AD41BS be _*fully*_ equivalent to > > the LP series? > They'd be an acceptable substitute, but they're more expensive. Vans Todd Neidinger 9A - fuse. Waunakee, Wi H.Ivan Haecker wrote: > Does anyone know if Aircraft Spruce sells a rivet that is equivalent > to the LP4-3 that Van's supplies? I'm assembling an order for ACS but > don't see the same rivet that Van's sells. I'm hoping to avoid an > extra shipping and handling charge just for a few rivets. > > Ivan Haecker -4 1370 hrs. S.Cen.TX > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 06:38:32 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV-List: Supplier Problem From: evmeg@snowcrest.net >Geez John, I just got home and started reading this thread. You seem to have left out the most important bit about the fact that when you orderded your tanks.....way back in February.....you told me you would not need them untill OSH.....Pretty important from a scheduling standpoint. Not too sure I appreciate this bit of attention. I think your good karma just went south. Evan .....Still working on your tanks but a bit miffed.... > > Well, perhaps my problem is about over...I just talked to Evan Johnson > regarding my fuel tanks ordered early February, and he said he expects > to ship them this coming Monday. I may make Oshkosh after all. Seems he > has been out of the country for a bit which slows/stops things in a > one-man operation. > > Maybe all will be well...thanks to several of you folks who offered > assistance/advise. > > John > > --------------------------------------------- This message was sent using SnowCrest WebMail. http://www.snowcrest.net ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 06:38:41 PM PST US From: Charlie England Subject: Re: RV-List: LP4-3 Rivets H.Ivan Haecker wrote: > Does anyone know if Aircraft Spruce sells a rivet that is equivalent to > the LP4-3 that Van's supplies? I'm assembling an order for ACS but don't > see the same rivet that Van's sells. I'm hoping to avoid an extra > shipping and handling charge just for a few rivets. > > Ivan Haecker -4 1370 hrs. S.Cen.TX > > * http://www.hansonrivet.com/ ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:16:28 PM PST US From: Joseph Larson Subject: Re: RV-List: Supplier Problem I think what Evan *really* meant to write was: "John, when you ordered your tanks, you indicated you wouldn't need them until shortly before OSH, so I added them to the schedule. I'm really sorry if I misunderstood you. I promise I'll have your tanks shipped by the end of next week. Please let me know if there's anything I can do to make sure they are easy to install in a prompt fashion." I'm sure that's what Evan really meant to say. -J On Jun 19, 2007, at 8:37 PM, evmeg@snowcrest.net wrote: > >> Geez John, I just got home and started reading this thread. You >> seem to > have left out the most important bit about the fact that when you > orderded your tanks.....way back in February.....you told me you would > not need them untill OSH.....Pretty important from a scheduling > standpoint. Not too sure I appreciate this bit of attention. I > think your > good karma just went south. > Evan > .....Still working on your tanks but a bit miffed.... ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:20:04 PM PST US From: "Kyle Boatright" Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Breather run into exhaust (nuff said) You do want to have a minor amount of air pressure going into the breather hose. To accomplish this, you cut a bevel at 45 degrees or so with the opening facing into the airstream (and down) - similar to the fuel vents. If the opening faces the other way and you are careless enough (I was - once) to leave the oil dipstick loose, you can find a huge amount of oil on the airplane's belly even after a short flight. The combination of a loose dipstick and a backwards facing breather can create a lot of airflow *through* the engine, which will pull a surprising amount of oil with it... I wrote my incident up for the RVator about 5 years ago. I blew a quart and a half of oil out of the engine in about 15 minutes. Quite the surprise when I landed to have oil running down the belly of the airplane and dripping on the ramp. KB ----- Original Message ----- From: Ron Lee To: rv-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 7:37 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Breather run into exhaust (nuff said) And in the end what did we learn? Nothing, Actually I may have learned something about the end of the breather hose. Although I am still a bit confuzzled how the end is cut apparently is important so that you don't pressurize it. Also having a whistle slot near the engine is good IF the end becomes obstructed. 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