Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 10:18 AM - Skin riveting - making it pretty (EXT-Allen, David)
2. 10:32 AM - Re: Skin riveting - making it pretty (Tim Bryan)
3. 12:58 PM - Re: Skin riveting - making it pretty (smitty@smittysrv.com)
4. 02:16 PM - Re: Skin riveting - making it pretty (Dave B)
5. 06:44 PM - Falcon instruments (jlfernan)
6. 07:24 PM - Re: Falcon instruments (Richard Dudley)
7. 07:28 PM - Re: Falcon instruments (Sam Buchanan)
8. 08:41 PM - Re: Falcon instruments (Ron Lee)
9. 09:00 PM - Re: Falcon instruments (Sam Buchanan)
10. 10:00 PM - Re: Falcon instruments (Bill VonDane)
11. 10:03 PM - Langley Fly-in This Saturday (Tedd McHenry)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Skin riveting - making it pretty |
I started out at ground zero -- never even seen a rivet gun, let alone
used one -- luckily I had some friends who helped me get started.
Have now completed the tail, wings and half the fuselage on my 9A kit.
I had never been really satisfied with the cosmetics of the flush skin
rivets -- seems like there is always some slight deformation in the
vicinity of each rivet.
Somewhere along the line, it occurred to me that the only really
"pretty" rivets were those on the stiffeners that were back-riveted.
So I switched over to back-riveting everywhere possible -- using a
"dumbell" bucking bar (round with about 2" round knob on one end), the
standard 3" back-rivet set and a long offset back-riveter when needed to
get around rib or bulkhead flanges, etc. -- I got all these from Avery.
I'm now using the back-rivet process whether working alone or with an
assistant.
My assistant (wife) is a little intimidated with using the gun or the
bucking bar in the normal riveting process but seems to be much more
comfortable with the dumbell bar in the back-riveting process.
Communication between the two workers seems to be easier too -- the gun
operator can see immediate results of his actions, etc.
Bottom line is that I'm more satisfied with the results.
You old timers will probably be bored to death with this but hopefully
it will be helpful to the beginners -- I wish I could go back and re-do
some of my more visible skin surfaces.
Dave Allen
Message 2
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| Subject: | Skin riveting - making it pretty |
Hi David,
My back riveting on my -6 was also my best but in part due to the really
flat surface of the riveting plate on my bench. I found that riveting the
normal way worked OK so long as I pre tested my pressure settings. This was
the key for me. I also used only a 2x gun and that was helpful most of the
time. Can you share your experience about why you think you had difficulty
with riveting? Back riveting works great however so enjoy.
Tim
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-
> server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of EXT-Allen, David
> Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 12:17 PM
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Skin riveting - making it pretty
>
>
> I started out at ground zero -- never even seen a rivet gun, let alone
> used one -- luckily I had some friends who helped me get started.
> Have now completed the tail, wings and half the fuselage on my 9A kit.
>
> I had never been really satisfied with the cosmetics of the flush skin
> rivets -- seems like there is always some slight deformation in the
> vicinity of each rivet.
>
> Somewhere along the line, it occurred to me that the only really
> "pretty" rivets were those on the stiffeners that were back-riveted.
>
> So I switched over to back-riveting everywhere possible -- using a
> "dumbell" bucking bar (round with about 2" round knob on one end), the
> standard 3" back-rivet set and a long offset back-riveter when needed to
> get around rib or bulkhead flanges, etc. -- I got all these from Avery.
>
> I'm now using the back-rivet process whether working alone or with an
> assistant.
>
> My assistant (wife) is a little intimidated with using the gun or the
> bucking bar in the normal riveting process but seems to be much more
> comfortable with the dumbell bar in the back-riveting process.
> Communication between the two workers seems to be easier too -- the gun
> operator can see immediate results of his actions, etc.
>
> Bottom line is that I'm more satisfied with the results.
>
> You old timers will probably be bored to death with this but hopefully
> it will be helpful to the beginners -- I wish I could go back and re-do
> some of my more visible skin surfaces.
>
> Dave Allen
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Skin riveting - making it pretty |
Hi Dave,
Someone suggested to me at the beginning of my project to purchase a swivel
flush rivet set for my rivet gun. He told me that the swivel on this set
would cover my butt when I don't hold the rivet set perfectly perpendicular
to the skin when riveting and bucking.
http://www.smittysrv.com/toolpics/SwivelFlushRivetSet.jpg
Here's an entry on my website where I talk about the pros and cons of
backriveting with the 10 inch backriveting tool against using a flush rivet
set and rivet gun on the wing skins. I agree that the standard "short"
backriveting tool does great work and is indeed preferable when putting in
stiffeners. I also put rivet tape over every rivet that I put in.
http://www.smittysrv.com/more_stuff.asp?ID=438
Smitty
http://SmittysRV.com
Original Message:
-----------------
From: EXT-Allen, David david.allen@boeing.com
Subject: RV-List: Skin riveting - making it pretty
I started out at ground zero -- never even seen a rivet gun, let alone
used one -- luckily I had some friends who helped me get started.
Have now completed the tail, wings and half the fuselage on my 9A kit.
I had never been really satisfied with the cosmetics of the flush skin
rivets -- seems like there is always some slight deformation in the
vicinity of each rivet.
Somewhere along the line, it occurred to me that the only really
"pretty" rivets were those on the stiffeners that were back-riveted.
So I switched over to back-riveting everywhere possible -- using a
"dumbell" bucking bar (round with about 2" round knob on one end), the
standard 3" back-rivet set and a long offset back-riveter when needed to
get around rib or bulkhead flanges, etc. -- I got all these from Avery.
I'm now using the back-rivet process whether working alone or with an
assistant.
My assistant (wife) is a little intimidated with using the gun or the
bucking bar in the normal riveting process but seems to be much more
comfortable with the dumbell bar in the back-riveting process.
Communication between the two workers seems to be easier too -- the gun
operator can see immediate results of his actions, etc.
Bottom line is that I'm more satisfied with the results.
You old timers will probably be bored to death with this but hopefully
it will be helpful to the beginners -- I wish I could go back and re-do
some of my more visible skin surfaces.
Dave Allen
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Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Skin riveting - making it pretty |
Dave,
You can get rid of those deformations pretty easily by tapping VERY
lightly on the shop head with no bucking bar on the other side. Where I
could, I used a universal head set in my rivet gun, otherwise a small
hammer will usually do the job. Using the universal rivet set tends to
just round off the shop head a little instead of smashing it. Be sure to
do a test first so you know how hard you're going to hit it.
Dave Bristol -6 So Cal
EAA Technical Counselor
EXT-Allen, David wrote:
>
> I started out at ground zero -- never even seen a rivet gun, let alone
> used one -- luckily I had some friends who helped me get started.
> Have now completed the tail, wings and half the fuselage on my 9A kit.
>
> I had never been really satisfied with the cosmetics of the flush skin
> rivets -- seems like there is always some slight deformation in the
> vicinity of each rivet.
>
> Somewhere along the line, it occurred to me that the only really
> "pretty" rivets were those on the stiffeners that were back-riveted.
>
> So I switched over to back-riveting everywhere possible -- using a
> "dumbell" bucking bar (round with about 2" round knob on one end), the
> standard 3" back-rivet set and a long offset back-riveter when needed to
> get around rib or bulkhead flanges, etc. -- I got all these from Avery.
>
> I'm now using the back-rivet process whether working alone or with an
> assistant.
>
> My assistant (wife) is a little intimidated with using the gun or the
> bucking bar in the normal riveting process but seems to be much more
> comfortable with the dumbell bar in the back-riveting process.
> Communication between the two workers seems to be easier too -- the gun
> operator can see immediate results of his actions, etc.
>
> Bottom line is that I'm more satisfied with the results.
>
> You old timers will probably be bored to death with this but hopefully
> it will be helpful to the beginners -- I wish I could go back and re-do
> some of my more visible skin surfaces.
>
> Dave Allen
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Falcon instruments |
I'm getting ready to start building my 9A panel but have a limited budget(Wife)
and am not planning on a glass cockpit. I prefer steam. I want go with an electric
AI. Falcon has one along with other instruments with very decent prices.
Unfortunately I keep reading bad things about Falcon. I would like to hear from
people that have had good experiences with Falcon.
--------
Jorge Fernandez
N214JL Reserved
9A QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=119939#119939
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Falcon instruments |
Jeorge,
I have a Falcon altimeter that I bought early in my fuselage
construction, around six years ago. I have been flying for 2-1/2 years
and through two altimeter calibrations at a certified repair station. In
both calibration checks the altimeter passed with no problems to 20,000
feet.
Richard Dudley
RV-6A
jlfernan wrote:
>
>I'm getting ready to start building my 9A panel but have a limited budget(Wife)
and am not planning on a glass cockpit. I prefer steam. I want go with an electric
AI. Falcon has one along with other instruments with very decent prices.
Unfortunately I keep reading bad things about Falcon. I would like to hear from
people that have had good experiences with Falcon.
>
>--------
>Jorge Fernandez
>N214JL Reserved
>9A QB
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=119939#119939
>
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Falcon instruments |
jlfernan wrote:
>
> I'm getting ready to start building my 9A panel but have a limited
> budget(Wife) and am not planning on a glass cockpit. I prefer steam.
> I want go with an electric AI. Falcon has one along with other
> instruments with very decent prices. Unfortunately I keep reading bad
> things about Falcon. I would like to hear from people that have had
> good experiences with Falcon.
>
Jorge, I certainly understand the budget situation and your preference
for analog. But.....if you run the numbers, you may find a Dynon D10A
gives you a lot more bang for the buck than a panel full of clock dials.
You will have an up-to-date panel *and* a happy financial director. :-)
Sam Buchanan
http://thervjournal.com
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Falcon instruments |
Although Sam is usually right he is off a bit here. The D-100 is mucho
larger (mo better) and only a small amount more than the D10A. His
"numbers" issue is still correct. Go with the D100.
http://www.dynonavionics.com/docs/EFIS_intro.html
Ron Lee
> Jorge, I certainly understand the budget situation and your preference
> for analog. But.....if you run the numbers, you may find a Dynon D10A
> gives you a lot more bang for the buck than a panel full of clock dials.
> You will have an up-to-date panel *and* a happy financial director. :-)
>
> Sam Buchanan
> http://thervjournal.com
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Falcon instruments |
Ron Lee wrote:
>
> Although Sam is usually right he is off a bit here. The D-100 is mucho
> larger (mo better) and only a small amount more than the D10A. His
> "numbers" issue is still correct. Go with the D100.
>
> http://www.dynonavionics.com/docs/EFIS_intro.html
Agreed. I forgot about the D-100, thanks for the reminder.
Sam Buchanan
=============
>
>
>> Jorge, I certainly understand the budget situation and your preference
>> for analog. But.....if you run the numbers, you may find a Dynon D10A
>> gives you a lot more bang for the buck than a panel full of clock
>> dials. You will have an up-to-date panel *and* a happy financial
>> director. :-)
>>
>> Sam Buchanan
>> http://thervjournal.com
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Falcon instruments |
Dont forget you can get a TruTrak ADI for about $1100. You can also get
a backup battery system for it for another $100...
It doesn't work exactly the same as an attitude indicator, but it does
have some features I believe are better...
http://www.trutrakflightsystems.com/instruments_ADI.htm
http://www.trutrakflightsystems.com/faq2.htm#24
-Bill
Sam Buchanan wrote:
>
> Ron Lee wrote:
>>
>> Although Sam is usually right he is off a bit here. The D-100 is mucho
>> larger (mo better) and only a small amount more than the D10A. His
>> "numbers" issue is still correct. Go with the D100.
>>
>> http://www.dynonavionics.com/docs/EFIS_intro.html
>
>
> Agreed. I forgot about the D-100, thanks for the reminder.
>
> Sam Buchanan
>
> =============
>
>>
>>
>>> Jorge, I certainly understand the budget situation and your preference
>>> for analog. But.....if you run the numbers, you may find a Dynon
>>> D10A gives you a lot more bang for the buck than a panel full of
>>> clock dials. You will have an up-to-date panel *and* a happy
>>> financial director. :-)
>>>
>>> Sam Buchanan
>>> http://thervjournal.com
>>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Langley Fly-in This Saturday |
Just a reminder that the Langley, BC fly-in is this coming Saturday, June 23.
This is the annual fly-in of VAF Western Canada Wing. Langley, BC, is about
20 nm north of Bellingham, WA.
Details are on our web page,
http://www.vansairforce.org/CYNJ/
For U.S. visitors, the Home Wing web page has all the information you need on
border crossing procedures.
http://www.edt.com/homewing/international/
Remember that passports are now required to re-enter the U.S. -- but not to
enter Canada, so come and stay if you don't have one.
Tedd McHenry
Van's Air Force
Western Canada Wing
tedd@vansairforce.org
www.vansairforce.org
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