---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 06/21/07: 11 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 10:18 AM - Skin riveting - making it pretty (EXT-Allen, David) 2. 10:32 AM - Re: Skin riveting - making it pretty (Tim Bryan) 3. 12:58 PM - Re: Skin riveting - making it pretty (smitty@smittysrv.com) 4. 02:16 PM - Re: Skin riveting - making it pretty (Dave B) 5. 06:44 PM - Falcon instruments (jlfernan) 6. 07:24 PM - Re: Falcon instruments (Richard Dudley) 7. 07:28 PM - Re: Falcon instruments (Sam Buchanan) 8. 08:41 PM - Re: Falcon instruments (Ron Lee) 9. 09:00 PM - Re: Falcon instruments (Sam Buchanan) 10. 10:00 PM - Re: Falcon instruments (Bill VonDane) 11. 10:03 PM - Langley Fly-in This Saturday (Tedd McHenry) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 10:18:35 AM PST US Subject: RV-List: Skin riveting - making it pretty From: "EXT-Allen, David" I started out at ground zero -- never even seen a rivet gun, let alone used one -- luckily I had some friends who helped me get started. Have now completed the tail, wings and half the fuselage on my 9A kit. I had never been really satisfied with the cosmetics of the flush skin rivets -- seems like there is always some slight deformation in the vicinity of each rivet. Somewhere along the line, it occurred to me that the only really "pretty" rivets were those on the stiffeners that were back-riveted. So I switched over to back-riveting everywhere possible -- using a "dumbell" bucking bar (round with about 2" round knob on one end), the standard 3" back-rivet set and a long offset back-riveter when needed to get around rib or bulkhead flanges, etc. -- I got all these from Avery. I'm now using the back-rivet process whether working alone or with an assistant. My assistant (wife) is a little intimidated with using the gun or the bucking bar in the normal riveting process but seems to be much more comfortable with the dumbell bar in the back-riveting process. Communication between the two workers seems to be easier too -- the gun operator can see immediate results of his actions, etc. Bottom line is that I'm more satisfied with the results. You old timers will probably be bored to death with this but hopefully it will be helpful to the beginners -- I wish I could go back and re-do some of my more visible skin surfaces. Dave Allen ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 10:32:38 AM PST US From: "Tim Bryan" Subject: RE: RV-List: Skin riveting - making it pretty Hi David, My back riveting on my -6 was also my best but in part due to the really flat surface of the riveting plate on my bench. I found that riveting the normal way worked OK so long as I pre tested my pressure settings. This was the key for me. I also used only a 2x gun and that was helpful most of the time. Can you share your experience about why you think you had difficulty with riveting? Back riveting works great however so enjoy. Tim > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list- > server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of EXT-Allen, David > Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 12:17 PM > To: rv-list@matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: Skin riveting - making it pretty > > > I started out at ground zero -- never even seen a rivet gun, let alone > used one -- luckily I had some friends who helped me get started. > Have now completed the tail, wings and half the fuselage on my 9A kit. > > I had never been really satisfied with the cosmetics of the flush skin > rivets -- seems like there is always some slight deformation in the > vicinity of each rivet. > > Somewhere along the line, it occurred to me that the only really > "pretty" rivets were those on the stiffeners that were back-riveted. > > So I switched over to back-riveting everywhere possible -- using a > "dumbell" bucking bar (round with about 2" round knob on one end), the > standard 3" back-rivet set and a long offset back-riveter when needed to > get around rib or bulkhead flanges, etc. -- I got all these from Avery. > > I'm now using the back-rivet process whether working alone or with an > assistant. > > My assistant (wife) is a little intimidated with using the gun or the > bucking bar in the normal riveting process but seems to be much more > comfortable with the dumbell bar in the back-riveting process. > Communication between the two workers seems to be easier too -- the gun > operator can see immediate results of his actions, etc. > > Bottom line is that I'm more satisfied with the results. > > You old timers will probably be bored to death with this but hopefully > it will be helpful to the beginners -- I wish I could go back and re-do > some of my more visible skin surfaces. > > Dave Allen > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 12:58:04 PM PST US From: "smitty@smittysrv.com" Subject: RE: RV-List: Skin riveting - making it pretty Hi Dave, Someone suggested to me at the beginning of my project to purchase a swivel flush rivet set for my rivet gun. He told me that the swivel on this set would cover my butt when I don't hold the rivet set perfectly perpendicular to the skin when riveting and bucking. http://www.smittysrv.com/toolpics/SwivelFlushRivetSet.jpg Here's an entry on my website where I talk about the pros and cons of backriveting with the 10 inch backriveting tool against using a flush rivet set and rivet gun on the wing skins. I agree that the standard "short" backriveting tool does great work and is indeed preferable when putting in stiffeners. I also put rivet tape over every rivet that I put in. http://www.smittysrv.com/more_stuff.asp?ID=438 Smitty http://SmittysRV.com Original Message: ----------------- From: EXT-Allen, David david.allen@boeing.com Subject: RV-List: Skin riveting - making it pretty I started out at ground zero -- never even seen a rivet gun, let alone used one -- luckily I had some friends who helped me get started. Have now completed the tail, wings and half the fuselage on my 9A kit. I had never been really satisfied with the cosmetics of the flush skin rivets -- seems like there is always some slight deformation in the vicinity of each rivet. Somewhere along the line, it occurred to me that the only really "pretty" rivets were those on the stiffeners that were back-riveted. So I switched over to back-riveting everywhere possible -- using a "dumbell" bucking bar (round with about 2" round knob on one end), the standard 3" back-rivet set and a long offset back-riveter when needed to get around rib or bulkhead flanges, etc. -- I got all these from Avery. I'm now using the back-rivet process whether working alone or with an assistant. My assistant (wife) is a little intimidated with using the gun or the bucking bar in the normal riveting process but seems to be much more comfortable with the dumbell bar in the back-riveting process. Communication between the two workers seems to be easier too -- the gun operator can see immediate results of his actions, etc. Bottom line is that I'm more satisfied with the results. You old timers will probably be bored to death with this but hopefully it will be helpful to the beginners -- I wish I could go back and re-do some of my more visible skin surfaces. Dave Allen -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web.com What can On Demand Business Solutions do for you? http://link.mail2web.com/Business/SharePoint ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 02:16:36 PM PST US From: Dave B Subject: Re: RV-List: Skin riveting - making it pretty Dave, You can get rid of those deformations pretty easily by tapping VERY lightly on the shop head with no bucking bar on the other side. Where I could, I used a universal head set in my rivet gun, otherwise a small hammer will usually do the job. Using the universal rivet set tends to just round off the shop head a little instead of smashing it. Be sure to do a test first so you know how hard you're going to hit it. Dave Bristol -6 So Cal EAA Technical Counselor EXT-Allen, David wrote: > > I started out at ground zero -- never even seen a rivet gun, let alone > used one -- luckily I had some friends who helped me get started. > Have now completed the tail, wings and half the fuselage on my 9A kit. > > I had never been really satisfied with the cosmetics of the flush skin > rivets -- seems like there is always some slight deformation in the > vicinity of each rivet. > > Somewhere along the line, it occurred to me that the only really > "pretty" rivets were those on the stiffeners that were back-riveted. > > So I switched over to back-riveting everywhere possible -- using a > "dumbell" bucking bar (round with about 2" round knob on one end), the > standard 3" back-rivet set and a long offset back-riveter when needed to > get around rib or bulkhead flanges, etc. -- I got all these from Avery. > > I'm now using the back-rivet process whether working alone or with an > assistant. > > My assistant (wife) is a little intimidated with using the gun or the > bucking bar in the normal riveting process but seems to be much more > comfortable with the dumbell bar in the back-riveting process. > Communication between the two workers seems to be easier too -- the gun > operator can see immediate results of his actions, etc. > > Bottom line is that I'm more satisfied with the results. > > You old timers will probably be bored to death with this but hopefully > it will be helpful to the beginners -- I wish I could go back and re-do > some of my more visible skin surfaces. > > Dave Allen > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:44:08 PM PST US Subject: RV-List: Falcon instruments From: "jlfernan" I'm getting ready to start building my 9A panel but have a limited budget(Wife) and am not planning on a glass cockpit. I prefer steam. I want go with an electric AI. Falcon has one along with other instruments with very decent prices. Unfortunately I keep reading bad things about Falcon. I would like to hear from people that have had good experiences with Falcon. -------- Jorge Fernandez N214JL Reserved 9A QB Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=119939#119939 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:24:33 PM PST US From: Richard Dudley Subject: Re: RV-List: Falcon instruments Jeorge, I have a Falcon altimeter that I bought early in my fuselage construction, around six years ago. I have been flying for 2-1/2 years and through two altimeter calibrations at a certified repair station. In both calibration checks the altimeter passed with no problems to 20,000 feet. Richard Dudley RV-6A jlfernan wrote: > >I'm getting ready to start building my 9A panel but have a limited budget(Wife) and am not planning on a glass cockpit. I prefer steam. I want go with an electric AI. Falcon has one along with other instruments with very decent prices. Unfortunately I keep reading bad things about Falcon. I would like to hear from people that have had good experiences with Falcon. > >-------- >Jorge Fernandez >N214JL Reserved >9A QB > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=119939#119939 > > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:28:03 PM PST US From: Sam Buchanan Subject: Re: RV-List: Falcon instruments jlfernan wrote: > > I'm getting ready to start building my 9A panel but have a limited > budget(Wife) and am not planning on a glass cockpit. I prefer steam. > I want go with an electric AI. Falcon has one along with other > instruments with very decent prices. Unfortunately I keep reading bad > things about Falcon. I would like to hear from people that have had > good experiences with Falcon. > Jorge, I certainly understand the budget situation and your preference for analog. But.....if you run the numbers, you may find a Dynon D10A gives you a lot more bang for the buck than a panel full of clock dials. You will have an up-to-date panel *and* a happy financial director. :-) Sam Buchanan http://thervjournal.com ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:41:14 PM PST US From: "Ron Lee" Subject: Re: RV-List: Falcon instruments Although Sam is usually right he is off a bit here. The D-100 is mucho larger (mo better) and only a small amount more than the D10A. His "numbers" issue is still correct. Go with the D100. http://www.dynonavionics.com/docs/EFIS_intro.html Ron Lee > Jorge, I certainly understand the budget situation and your preference > for analog. But.....if you run the numbers, you may find a Dynon D10A > gives you a lot more bang for the buck than a panel full of clock dials. > You will have an up-to-date panel *and* a happy financial director. :-) > > Sam Buchanan > http://thervjournal.com ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:00:53 PM PST US From: Sam Buchanan Subject: Re: RV-List: Falcon instruments Ron Lee wrote: > > Although Sam is usually right he is off a bit here. The D-100 is mucho > larger (mo better) and only a small amount more than the D10A. His > "numbers" issue is still correct. Go with the D100. > > http://www.dynonavionics.com/docs/EFIS_intro.html Agreed. I forgot about the D-100, thanks for the reminder. Sam Buchanan ============= > > >> Jorge, I certainly understand the budget situation and your preference >> for analog. But.....if you run the numbers, you may find a Dynon D10A >> gives you a lot more bang for the buck than a panel full of clock >> dials. You will have an up-to-date panel *and* a happy financial >> director. :-) >> >> Sam Buchanan >> http://thervjournal.com > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:00:12 PM PST US From: Bill VonDane Subject: Re: RV-List: Falcon instruments Dont forget you can get a TruTrak ADI for about $1100. You can also get a backup battery system for it for another $100... It doesn't work exactly the same as an attitude indicator, but it does have some features I believe are better... http://www.trutrakflightsystems.com/instruments_ADI.htm http://www.trutrakflightsystems.com/faq2.htm#24 -Bill Sam Buchanan wrote: > > Ron Lee wrote: >> >> Although Sam is usually right he is off a bit here. The D-100 is mucho >> larger (mo better) and only a small amount more than the D10A. His >> "numbers" issue is still correct. Go with the D100. >> >> http://www.dynonavionics.com/docs/EFIS_intro.html > > > Agreed. I forgot about the D-100, thanks for the reminder. > > Sam Buchanan > > ============= > >> >> >>> Jorge, I certainly understand the budget situation and your preference >>> for analog. But.....if you run the numbers, you may find a Dynon >>> D10A gives you a lot more bang for the buck than a panel full of >>> clock dials. You will have an up-to-date panel *and* a happy >>> financial director. :-) >>> >>> Sam Buchanan >>> http://thervjournal.com >> > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:03:53 PM PST US From: Tedd McHenry Subject: RV-List: Langley Fly-in This Saturday Just a reminder that the Langley, BC fly-in is this coming Saturday, June 23. This is the annual fly-in of VAF Western Canada Wing. Langley, BC, is about 20 nm north of Bellingham, WA. Details are on our web page, http://www.vansairforce.org/CYNJ/ For U.S. visitors, the Home Wing web page has all the information you need on border crossing procedures. http://www.edt.com/homewing/international/ Remember that passports are now required to re-enter the U.S. -- but not to enter Canada, so come and stay if you don't have one. Tedd McHenry Van's Air Force Western Canada Wing tedd@vansairforce.org www.vansairforce.org do not archive ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rv-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rv-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.