Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:18 AM - Re: Looking for Flamer... (Charles Rowbotham)
2. 04:53 AM - Re: Re: EAA Criticism (Dale Ensing)
3. 04:59 AM - Re: EAA Criticism (Bob Collins)
4. 05:33 AM - Eaa banter (Charles Heathco)
5. 06:18 AM - Re: Eaa banter (cbaron66)
6. 06:42 AM - Re: Re: EAA Criticism (Joe Larson)
7. 06:49 AM - Re: Re: Eaa banter (Charles Heathco)
8. 07:05 AM - Re: Eaa banter (N395V)
9. 07:20 AM - Re: Re: Eaa banter (David Schaefer)
10. 07:29 AM - Re: Re: Eaa banter (Bob Collins)
11. 07:43 AM - Re: Re: EAA Criticism (Dale Walter)
12. 08:08 AM - Re: Re: Eaa banter (Joseph Larson)
13. 08:26 AM - Re: Re: EAA Criticism (Joseph Larson)
14. 08:36 AM - Re: EAA Criticism (Bob Collins)
15. 08:49 AM - Re: Re: EAA Criticism (Timothy E. Cone)
16. 08:50 AM - Re: Re: Eaa banter (Jim Sears)
17. 09:35 AM - Re: Re: EAA Criticism (Joseph Larson)
18. 09:50 AM - Re: Eaa banter (Bob Collins)
19. 10:50 AM - Re: Re: Eaa banter (Terry Watson)
20. 12:03 PM - Re: Eaa banter (Bob Collins)
21. 12:03 PM - Re: Re: Eaa banter (Chuck Jensen)
22. 12:03 PM - Re: Re: Eaa banter (Brian Meyette)
23. 12:04 PM - Re: Re: EAA Criticism (Lloyd, Daniel R.)
24. 12:04 PM - Re: Re: WAS Eaa banter NOW OSH interesting things (Brian Meyette)
25. 12:20 PM - Re: Re: Eaa banter (Michael W Stewart)
26. 12:41 PM - Re: Re: Eaa banter (Jerry Hansen)
27. 01:15 PM - Re: Re: Eaa banter (Kevin Horton)
28. 01:17 PM - XP Assembly (Paul Besing)
29. 02:22 PM - Re: Re: Eaa banter (Brian Kraut)
30. 02:56 PM - Re: Electronic Ignition (dick martin)
31. 07:09 PM - Re: EAA Criticism (AirMike)
32. 08:25 PM - Re: Re: EAA Criticism - Oshkosh (Larry Bowles)
33. 08:41 PM - Re: Re: Re: Eaa banter ()
34. 09:51 PM - airventure 2007 - What's all the fuss?! (Lamar Lawson)
35. 10:23 PM - Re: airventure 2007 - What's all the fuss?! (Bob Collins)
36. 11:08 PM - Official RV-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle)
37. 11:11 PM - Official RV-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle)
38. 11:15 PM - Re: airventure 2007 - What's all the fuss?! (Bob Collins)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Looking for Flamer... |
Hi Mark,
I'd suggest you call Phil at Woodway Signs, He did our graphics on our RV8A.
Great to work with, does geat work and is reasonable. His number is (281)
461-4600. You can get his (800) number out of Trada-A-Plane.
Chuck Rowbotham
RV-8A
>From: Fiveonepw@aol.com
>To: rv-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: Looking for Flamer...
>Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 23:35:34 EDT
>
>I am seeking contacts for an individual competent in the art of flame
>graphics such as seen on quality hot rods/custom cars.
>Tennesee/Georgia/Alabama/Kentucky area.
>
>Feel free to pass along my e-mail address to qualified artisans...
>
>Thanks & do not archive
>Mark
>
>
>************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL
>at
>http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
_________________________________________________________________
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: EAA Criticism |
I am sorry the Sport Aviation Association didn't succeed. I would have
joined if I had known it existed at the time. I learned of it after it had
folded.
How did Paul go about recruiting members?
To my knowledge, Tom P. has never built an airplane. Any one know otherwise?
Dale Ensing
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "c.ennis" <c.ennis@insightbb.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 8:44 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: EAA Criticism
>
> Mentioning Tom's father, Paul, reminded me of the "Sport Aviation
> Association" which was a try by Paul to get back to the experimental part
> of the aviation family.
> As I recall his last letter to members noted a lack of significant
> interest for him to continue. Perhaps if more of us had joined in, we
> would have been be happier with what Paul was offering.
> Do not archive.
>
> Charlie Ennis
> RV-6A
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: EAA Criticism |
jabowenjr(at)hotmail.com wrote:
> I just don't get how people come to the place where $500,000 + a year
> compensation for CEO's and other business leaders is OK.
As near as I can tell, a sizeable chunk of the people "camping" east of Stits Road
fall into that category.
I saw our favorite basketball player traded yesterday. He makes $26 million a year.
Poberezny had a better year. (g)
--------
Bob Collins
St. Paul, Minn.
RV Builder's Hotline (free!)
http://rvhotline.expercraft.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=126860#126860
Message 4
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You think we could give this a rest? its just repeticious drivel and is
cloging my mailbox. Charlie Heathco
Message 5
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What exactly do you want to "give it a rest" to? The fact that a measurable amount
of the membership of an organization that is "non-profit" are not overly pleased
with the way their dues are used? Or are you talking about the fact that
Osh has become mostly a place for wealthy people to buy/pose with/play with
very expensive crap most of us will never even dream about owning? Even though
I only started attending in the early ninties, I feel there isn't as much there
for the little
guy as there used to be(relative to the amount of high dollar sh_t that has no
relevance to homebuilt aircraft). Nowdays, my favorite place is the few odd vendors
left in the flymarket that sell old used airplane parts. I guess we'll just
give it all a rest and sweep it under the rug once again. However I will win
out, as I only in my forties and all the sad faced old men with more money
than skills will quit flying and die. That will cause EAA to hopfully shrink back
to what is was and should be again- a (small) group of fanatic enthusists
that build airplanes with their hands from napkin drawings and don't need huge
multi-corparate sponsorship to get together and have a little fun once a year.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=126885#126885
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: EAA Criticism |
I read that letter as sport aviation, not experimental / homebuilder
aviation. LSAs, etc.
As far as I'm concerned, the main thrust of the main EAA periodical
should be experimental aviation.
-J
On Jul 31, 2007, at 7:44 PM, c.ennis wrote:
>
> Mentioning Tom's father, Paul, reminded me of the "Sport Aviation
> Association" which was a try by Paul to get back to the
> experimental part of the aviation family.
> As I recall his last letter to members noted a lack of significant
> interest for him to continue. Perhaps if more of us had joined in,
> we would have been be happier with what Paul was offering.
> Do not archive.
Message 7
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forget about it, Im just changing to Digest. ----- Original Message -----
From: "cbaron66" <bruce.lee@honeywell.com>
To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 8:17 AM
Subject: RV-List: Re: Eaa banter
What exactly do you want to "give it a rest" to? The fact that a
measurable amount of the membership of an organization that is "non-profit"
are not overly pleased with the way their dues are used? Or are you talking
about the fact that Osh has become mostly a place for wealthy people to
buy/pose with/play with very expensive crap most of us will never even dream
about owning? Even though I only started attending in the early ninties, I
feel there isn't as much there for the little
guy as there used to be(relative to the amount of high dollar sh_t that
has no relevance to homebuilt aircraft). Nowdays, my favorite place is the
few odd vendors left in the flymarket that sell old used airplane parts. I
guess we'll just give it all a rest and sweep it under the rug once again.
However I will win out, as I only in my forties and all the sad faced old
men with more money than skills will quit flying and die. That will cause
EAA to hopfully shrink back to what is was and should be again- a (small)
group of fanatic enthusists that build airplanes with their hands from
napkin drawings and don't need huge multi-corparate sponsorship to get
together and have a little fun once a year.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=126885#126885
Message 8
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> However I will win out, as I only in my forties and all the sad faced old men
with more money than skills will quit flying and die.
Care to expand on this comment?
Only 40s and under should be flying and building.
Everybody over 40 or living above the poverty level has no skills?
Some people in their 20s and 30s consider 40 year olds as sad old men.
Your view of the EAA is no more appealing to me than the current one.
But then when I die of old age I really won't care, that is if my presumed lack
of skill doesn't get me first. so GFY
--------
Milt
2003 F1 Rocket
2006 Radial Rocket
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=126894#126894
Message 9
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As much as I didn't want to get involved ... your note was the last straw.
I agree completely with Charlie ... this is the RV FORUM .. not the bitch
about EAA forum. If you want a bitch about EAA forum go to Yahoo and create
an "EAA SUCKS" forum and continue to spout this dribble. OTHERWISE, let's
talk about RVs, RV construction etc.
OH .. and I've been a member of EAA since 1974 and while I don't like much
of what they have become, this is not the place to discuss it.
Now flame me all you want!
On 8/1/07, cbaron66 <bruce.lee@honeywell.com> wrote:
>
>
> What exactly do you want to "give it a rest" to? The fact that a
> measurable amount of the membership of an organization that is "non-profit"
> are not overly pleased with the way their dues are used? Or are you talking
> about the fact that Osh has become mostly a place for wealthy people to
> buy/pose with/play with very expensive crap most of us will never even dream
> about owning? Even though I only started attending in the early ninties, I
> feel there isn't as much there for the little
> guy as there used to be(relative to the amount of high dollar sh_t that
> has no relevance to homebuilt aircraft). Nowdays, my favorite place is the
> few odd vendors left in the flymarket that sell old used airplane parts. I
> guess we'll just give it all a rest and sweep it under the rug once again.
> However I will win out, as I only in my forties and all the sad faced old
> men with more money than skills will quit flying and die. That will cause
> EAA to hopfully shrink back to what is was and should be again- a (small)
> group of fanatic enthusists that build airplanes with their hands from
> napkin drawings and don't need huge multi-corparate sponsorship to get
> together and have a little fun once a year.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=126885#126885
>
>
--
David W. Schaefer
RV-6A N142DS "Geek One"
TMX-IOF360 FADEC, Hartzell Blended Airfoil, GRT EFIS
www.n142ds.com
Message 10
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What is the most interesting RV-related thing you saw at Oshkosh this year,
folks? I didn't get a chance to see the RV on floats but I'd seen the
pictures of it. Smitty has some pictures of it in the water on Doug's site.
What else?
Forums? Anybody learn anything at a forum?
_____
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Schaefer
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 9:20 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Eaa banter
As much as I didn't want to get involved ... your note was the last straw.
I agree completely with Charlie ... this is the RV FORUM .. not the bitch
about EAA forum. If you want a bitch about EAA forum go to Yahoo and create
an "EAA SUCKS" forum and continue to spout this dribble. OTHERWISE, let's
talk about RVs, RV construction etc.
OH .. and I've been a member of EAA since 1974 and while I don't like much
of what they have become, this is not the place to discuss it.
Now flame me all you want!
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: EAA Criticism |
That is very stupid. I am not in favor of abuse or great excess. IMHO
comparisons like that and the related logic will be the demise of a nation
when it spreads too far. It is a cancer.
Dale
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Collins
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 7:59 AM
Subject: RV-List: Re: EAA Criticism
jabowenjr(at)hotmail.com wrote:
> I just don't get how people come to the place where $500,000 + a year
> compensation for CEO's and other business leaders is OK.
As near as I can tell, a sizeable chunk of the people "camping" east of
Stits Road fall into that category.
I saw our favorite basketball player traded yesterday. He makes $26 million
a year.
Poberezny had a better year. (g)
--------
Bob Collins
St. Paul, Minn.
RV Builder's Hotline (free!)
http://rvhotline.expercraft.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=126860#126860
Message 12
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I went to the XP-360 build on Thursday. I was pretty much an engine-
ignoramus before this, but now I think I know enough to at least not
be completely stupid about them. Just mostly stupid :-)
And I had a very nice talk with one of the guys from P-Mag.
-J
On Aug 1, 2007, at 9:28 AM, Bob Collins wrote:
> What is the most interesting RV-related thing you saw at Oshkosh
> this year, folks? I didn't get a chance to see the RV on floats but
> I'd seen the pictures of it. Smitty has some pictures of it in the
> water on Doug's site.
>
> What else?
>
> Forums? Anybody learn anything at a forum?
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: EAA Criticism |
I think the original question was reasonable -- is Poberezny
overpaid? Comparing his salary to the salary of the presidents of
other similarly-sized organizations is a reasonable way of judging
his salary.
I didn't quite understand the jabowenjr comment, so I ignored it.
I think Bob is saying, "Yes, Pober's salary is reasonable." I agree
with Bob on that.
-J
On Aug 1, 2007, at 9:38 AM, Dale Walter wrote:
>
> That is very stupid. I am not in favor of abuse or great excess. IMHO
> comparisons like that and the related logic will be the demise of a
> nation
> when it spreads too far. It is a cancer.
> Dale
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Collins
> Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 7:59 AM
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Re: EAA Criticism
>
> <bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net>
>
>
> jabowenjr(at)hotmail.com wrote:
>> I just don't get how people come to the place where $500,000 + a year
>> compensation for CEO's and other business leaders is OK.
>
>
> As near as I can tell, a sizeable chunk of the people "camping"
> east of
> Stits Road fall into that category.
>
> I saw our favorite basketball player traded yesterday. He makes $26
> million
> a year.
>
> Poberezny had a better year. (g)
>
> --------
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: EAA Criticism |
dale1rv6(at)comcast.net wrote:
> That is very stupid. I am not in favor of abuse or great excess. IMHO
> comparisons like that and the related logic will be the demise of a nation
> when it spreads too far. It is a cancer.
> Dale--
Ah, I don't worry 'bout stuff like that. Global warming, the endof cheap oil,
the erosion of constitutional rights, and bacteria run amok will get us before
words on an Internet bulletin board will. (g)
--------
Bob Collins
St. Paul, Minn.
RV Builder's Hotline (free!)
http://rvhotline.expercraft.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=126931#126931
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: EAA Criticism |
What would Poberezny's salary have to do with RVs?
Tim Cone
do not achive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Larson" <jpl@showpage.org>
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 8:24 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: EAA Criticism
>
> I think the original question was reasonable -- is Poberezny
> overpaid? Comparing his salary to the salary of the presidents of
> other similarly-sized organizations is a reasonable way of judging
> his salary.
>
> I didn't quite understand the jabowenjr comment, so I ignored it.
>
> I think Bob is saying, "Yes, Pober's salary is reasonable." I agree
> with Bob on that.
>
> -J
>
> On Aug 1, 2007, at 9:38 AM, Dale Walter wrote:
>
>>
>> That is very stupid. I am not in favor of abuse or great excess. IMHO
>> comparisons like that and the related logic will be the demise of a
>> nation
>> when it spreads too far. It is a cancer.
>> Dale
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Collins
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 7:59 AM
>> To: rv-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: RV-List: Re: EAA Criticism
>>
>> <bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net>
>>
>>
>> jabowenjr(at)hotmail.com wrote:
>>> I just don't get how people come to the place where $500,000 + a year
>>> compensation for CEO's and other business leaders is OK.
>>
>>
>> As near as I can tell, a sizeable chunk of the people "camping"
>> east of
>> Stits Road fall into that category.
>>
>> I saw our favorite basketball player traded yesterday. He makes $26
>> million
>> a year.
>>
>> Poberezny had a better year. (g)
>>
>> --------
>
>
>
>
>
Message 16
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I really hate to step into this crap again; but, some comments
made were a little out of line.
> What exactly do you want to "give it a rest" to? The fact
> that a measurable amount of the membership of an
> organization that is "non-profit" are not overly pleased
> with the way their dues are used?
The problem is, we can cuss and discuss this issue to death;
but, we're preaching to the choir. Our comments, negative
and positive, should be sent to the EAA instead of taking
up so much space here. How many have used "do not
archive" to keep this discussion out of the archives? If
one is not happy with an organization, one should let them
know. Another alternative is to drop one's membership.
I've done both with the EAA, when needed.
> Or are you talking about the fact that Osh has become
> mostly a place for wealthy people to buy/pose with/play
> with very expensive crap most of us will never even
> dream about owning?
Yes, there is some of that; and, that was one reason I
dropped out of the EAA for a couple of years, some
years back. However, I have friends who look forward
to going to OSH every year, even though they bitch to
no end about the cost. I opt to not go. I have yet to
attend OSH because it does nothing for me. I did
attend Sun-n-Fun a few times; but, I've never had the
desire to do OSH. If one doesn't like what goes on
there, do as I do. It works for me. Oh, yeah. My
friends, for the most part, are far from wealthy. Two
I know spend their vacations volunteering so you can
have fun there. They can barely afford to attend it,
themselves.
> Even though I only started attending in the early
> ninties, I feel there isn't as much there for the little
> guy as there used to be(relative to the amount of high
> dollar sh_t that has no relevance to homebuilt aircraft).
That is probably true. However, it is one of the places
one can go to see the latest in stuff that we can use in
our RVs, or any other thing we're building. I used my
first couple of trips to Sun-n-Fun to pick out a kit to
build. Later on, I used a trip to pick out my avionics.
I've made one trip there, since. I may not go to any
more of their events; but, they worked for me, when
I did attend. Local fly-ins are more to my liking.
> Nowdays, my favorite place is the few odd vendors
> left in the flymarket that sell old used airplane parts.
That's a neat place, if one is looking for rare parts. You
won't find those vendors at most fly-ins.
> I guess we'll just give it all a rest and sweep it under
> the rug once again.
You don't have to, if you complain to the source of the
problem. We tend to bitch amongst ourselves and do
nothing to really confront the problem. If you don't
talk with the EAA about what they're doing, they'll
continue to think they're still doing OK. When a bunch
of us started raising heck about the warbirds, etc., in
the magazine, that changed. After a couple of years of
being a non-member, I felt the magazine was good
enough for me to renew, again. The magazine is my
main benefit from the organization. When it no longer
appeals to me, I'll complain to the EAA.
> However I will win out, as I only in my forties and all the
> sad faced old men with more money than skills will quit
> flying and die.
Remember, we old men make up a goodly portion of GA.
However, not all of us old men are rich. In fact, most of
the guys I know are considering getting out of aviation, not
because of our health. We can no longer justify the cost. If
you can, then you must be one of the richer guys you're
talking about. The young folks I know can't afford a LSA
ticket, much less a private ticket. Owning an airplane is
something they can only dream about. The expenses of
raising a family take all they have. If you can still afford it,
you must be richer than you think. :-)
As for the skills, who do you learn your skills from? Mine
have come from various sources, to include those older than
I am. Will you be enough to back fill what will be lost when
us older guys die off? Remember, it's not just the rich old
guys who die. We older builders with skills die, as well.
> That will cause EAA to hopfully shrink back to what
> is was and should be again- a (small) group of fanatic
> enthusists that build airplanes with their hands from
> napkin drawings and don't need huge multi-corparate
> sponsorship to get together and have a little fun once
> a year.
Unfortunately, you're right about the shrinkage because
there won't be enough young people with the incomes
and the desire to maintain GA as we know it, today. It
will be the rich who will be able to continue aviation,
just as it is in Europe, today. You can forget your get
togethers because those will be a thing of the past. If
you want to see what it will be like, look at the large
fly-ins of Europe. A big one there is no larger than one
of our local events. Do you think you'd ever see an
impromptu RV fly-in draw over 100 airplanes because
the pilots just needed something to do? I think not.
That shrinkage you speak of will also mean a shrinkage
of kits provided to those who want to build; so, we may
have to revert back to scratch building to get anything built,
provided parts suppliers are not all driven out of business
by the lack of business. Just think of all of the jobs that
will be lost, if us older guys die off. We'll see GA for
the middle class die. Since I'm one of the older guys, I
may not live to see that happen, thankfully.
My suggestion is that you should watch what you wish for.
You may get it and may not like what you get.
Jim Sears in KY
RV-6A N198JS (Scooter)
RV-7A #70317 (Building when I get the urge)
do not archive
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: EAA Criticism |
If you don't care for the discussion, you can delete it when you see
the subject line.
I guess I don't understand why some people have such a hard time when
a topic of conversation slides a bit. "OMG, those people went off on
a tangent onto something I don't care about, so they should shut up."
Sigh.
-J
On Aug 1, 2007, at 10:40 AM, Timothy E. Cone wrote:
>
> What would Poberezny's salary have to do with RVs?
>
> Tim Cone
> do not achive
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph Larson" <jpl@showpage.org>
> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 8:24 AM
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: EAA Criticism
>
>
>> I think the original question was reasonable -- is Poberezny
>> overpaid? Comparing his salary to the salary of the presidents
>> of other similarly-sized organizations is a reasonable way of
>> judging his salary.
>> I didn't quite understand the jabowenjr comment, so I ignored it.
>> I think Bob is saying, "Yes, Pober's salary is reasonable." I
>> agree with Bob on that.
>> -J
>> On Aug 1, 2007, at 9:38 AM, Dale Walter wrote:
>>>
>>> That is very stupid. I am not in favor of abuse or great excess.
>>> IMHO
>>> comparisons like that and the related logic will be the demise of
>>> a nation
>>> when it spreads too far. It is a cancer.
>>> Dale
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
>>> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Collins
>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 7:59 AM
>>> To: rv-list@matronics.com
>>> Subject: RV-List: Re: EAA Criticism
>>>
>>> <bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net>
>>>
>>>
>>> jabowenjr(at)hotmail.com wrote:
>>>> I just don't get how people come to the place where $500,000 + a
>>>> year
>>>> compensation for CEO's and other business leaders is OK.
>>>
>>>
>>> As near as I can tell, a sizeable chunk of the people "camping"
>>> east of
>>> Stits Road fall into that category.
>>>
>>> I saw our favorite basketball player traded yesterday. He makes
>>> $26 million
>>> a year.
>>>
>>> Poberezny had a better year. (g)
>>>
>>> --------
>>
>
>
Message 18
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> Or are you talking about the fact that Osh has become
> mostly a place for wealthy people to buy/pose with/play
> with very expensive crap most of us will never even
> dream about owning?
>
I consider myself a working stiff. I'm building a pay-as-you-go airplane. I delivered
newspapers for 10years to pay for the project. I'm in year #7 of the build
and there'll probably be at least 4 more years of same. I have no clue how
I'm going to pay for avionics or an engine. But I'm still building anyway. BEcause
there's always hope.
I'll bet a lot of the folks described here as concerned about the cost of Oshkosh
and the infiltration of the rich, fly a lot more than I can afford to. I'll
bet they own a plane. I'll bet they have an engine, I'll bet they have glass
panels or are at least taking a step in that direction.
In other words -- by my yardstick -- they're rich. So it strikes me as odd to hear
the rich lament that they are forced to hang around other rich people once
a week.
I'll bet the farmer with the old Piper Cub in the barn thinks the same thing about
RV owners and builders.
And certainly, we've all fought in our communities, the impression that aviaton
-- and airports -- are playgrounds for rich boys and their toys.
The problem is, they are exactly that because the definition of "rich" most people
use is anyone who makes more money than me, or can afford more things, than
me.
It's all relative.
It remains unclear to me what people WANT out of the EAA AirVenture. I mean specifically
WHAT? Do they want it to be like it was 20 years ago? Why? Our projects
aren't what projects were 20 years ago.
When people say "it's not about homebuilding" anymore, I have to ask, what was
the fiberglassing workshop about? What was the engine workshops about? What was
the forum on registering your homebult about? I helped with a forum on using
online resources in your homebuilt project. What was THAT about if not for homebuilders?
I could go on and on and on, but I won't because I'm pretty sure
the complaint isn't REALLY that it's not for homebuilders anymore; I'm pretty
sure the complaint is actually that it's not ONLY for homebuilders anymore. But
why is that bad?
What EXACTLY are you people NOT getting that you expect to get out of the event?
For those of you who went this year, what EXACTLY were you looking to find that
you couldn't find for a homebuilder?
There's no sense communicating directly with the EAA until we can adequately say
exactly WHAT AirVenture should be.... not how p*ssed off you are about the way
it is.
So what does that constructive suggestion the EAA is looking for look like.
BTW, don't think the EAA doesn't want to know. We were visited by our campsite
on Tuesday by an EAA staffer who invited me to a feedback forum on what improvements
we'd like to see at AirVenture. Unfortunately, having staye dup late to
clean up the BBQ, 8:30 on Thursday morning -- which I had agreed to -- didn't
meet my abilities to attend. (g)
But if I had, "don't suck so bad" wouldn't have been one of my suggestions. I had
more productive ones like (a)have more refund lines and (b) have better soap
holders in the showers on the list.
So, imagine that you WERE in that group. What EXACTLY is on your list besides "don't
let the 'rich' people in"?
Rich is relative.
--------
Bob Collins
St. Paul, Minn.
RV Builder's Hotline (free!)
http://rvhotline.expercraft.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=126954#126954
Message 19
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The first time I remember ever getting up close to a real airplane was when
I was about 14 at the Washington State Fair in probably 1956. There was this
beautiful new red Piper Tripacer on display not far from the farm tractors.
I remember that it cost $10,000 -- about four times the annual income of our
family of five. I didn't know anyone who could afford such a luxury. About 8
years later (less time than I have been working on my RV) I soloed in a
T-38, which the Air Force then valued at a million dollars with an operating
cost of $1,000 per hour. The unfinished RV-8A in my shop, if finished, would
probably cost close to $100,000 to buy.
Times change. The rich get poor; the poor get rich; inflation makes
everything more expensive, innovation and technology brings us unanticipated
benefits at prices unimaginable in our wildest dreams. How many of us
expected to be arguing at near real-time with people who share our interests
and both please and annoy us around the world about the important and the
trivial ten years ago?
We privileged few are now the privileged many.
Terry
Message 20
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Terry Watson wrote:
> We privileged few are now the privileged many.
> Terry
Excellent points. The other aspect of the rich and their rich toys -- i.e., the
unaffordable production aircraft -- is they're the lab rats for stuff that eventually
will make it to the homebuilt folks.
GPS, glass panels, autopilots, weather in the cockpit? It all came from the "high"
end of aviation and made it to the "low end."
In the world of aviation, the homebuilt world and the non-homebuilt world aren't
mutually exclusive, imho.
--------
Bob Collins
St. Paul, Minn.
RV Builder's Hotline (free!)
http://rvhotline.expercraft.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=126973#126973
Message 21
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This was posted by Dick Finn , canard-aviator list. The discussion on
the canard list, which developed independently, while not as robust as
the RV discussion, covers many of the same topics and concerns. In sum,
the same overarching concerns are being expressed about the EAA mission
and focus by many and varied folks, not just a few whiners on the RV
list.
Chuck Jensen
Dick wrote....
I read all the glowing comments on the air show and
noticed one thing in common. They all told of how
great it was to see old friends, socialize with the
other builders at the barbeque, attend the barbeque,
dinner, weenie roast, etc. Generally the emails did
not say what a wonderful job EAA did and how they
enjoyed the rest of the fly in. Everything was
related to interactions with a small group of friends.
I'm a long time Cozy builder (plans #48) who has been
stalled for several years. Still, I do attend the air
show every year. When I started I attended all seven
days. As the EAA and the show changed, I slowly cut
back. This year I went on Thursday by myself and on
Friday with my wife and daughter. My overall feeling
was a continuation of the disappointment I started
feeling several years ago.
I would like to point out a few things that I have
noticed:
- My overall impression is that there are less people
attending. I have nothing concrete to go on here,
just a general impression. The EAA used to publish
attendance figures but I haven't seen them in Sport
Aviation for years. In fact, they even used to show
the growth rate in rolls of toilet paper consumed. I
really believe that attendance is down and has been
accelerating its downward trend. Dick Knapinski, I
believe you monitor this forum, could you comment? If
I'm wrong, I apologize-it is my impression though
- It appears to me that there is a steadily
accelerating decline in the number of show planes. It
used to be the field filled up every year but they
advertised that if you have a show plane they would
somehow fit you in. This year I saw a disappointingly
large number of empty tie down spaces in the show
plane area. I don't know if the field ever closed to
incoming traffic as it did in the past.
- My wife enjoys the war birds but it seemed that
there were not that many present this year.
- For years the back row in the Fly Mart has been a
bit sparse-still, five years ago, it was populated.
This year there was a row and a half empty. This is
not a big deal but I think it is indicative of a
general decline.
- There have always been a lot of aircraft "scrap"
dealers in the Fly Mart. I only noticed a couple this
year. For that matter, the number of tool and general
aircraft grade hardware dealers seems to be less.
This leaves the impression that the Fly Mart is
turning into a general "Flea Market" with only casual
relation to aviation. For example, I saw two or three
booths selling pots and pans-unbelievably (at least
for me) they wanted $1575 for a handful of pots.
- Prices seem to be higher and continually rising.
Food is the worst example. It appears to me that it
costs about $10 for a burger, fries and a Coke. I can
get a McDonalds meal at O'Hare for abut $6. A bottle
of soda you would pay $1 to $1.25 for a Walgreen's
costs $3.25. The little cups of frozen lemonade are
now up to $4. This appears to me to be another step
down a slippery slope. Failing revenues or simple
greed causes them to raise prices. A guy will pay it
but feel he is being cheated and then not come back
the next year. Lower attendance means lower revenue
so they raise the prices further-and so it goes.
- I'm seeing more commercial exhibitors now. They are
still general aviation but are aimed at the business
market. This audience is less focused on costs as
many are on expense accounts so I am thinking that
this is the direction EAA is moving.
- There appeared to me to be less "Big Iron" in Aero
Shell Square". Still, the area was crowded with
tents. Ford has a huge tent dedicated toward car
sales. I don't see much relationship with aviation
other than pilots tend to be more "well off" and do
buy cars.
- I noticed that McDonalds is not there this year
(which I thought was a good thing as they seemed to be
pushing out the old vendor -Zaug's). When I went down
to the Homebuilders area to get some lunch, however, I
found they had replaced what I believe to be the last
Zaug's outlet with a new vendor. I asked and was told
that the EAA was now running the concessions-my
assumption was that they could then pocket the full
profit. Zaug's used to sell "OK" food at a reasonable
price.
- We live on the east shore of Lake Winnebago and get
the TV news from Green Bay. Years ago they pretty
much based the whole week's newscasts around the EAA.
This year there were only a couple of stories and I
didn't see their broadcast areas set up at the show.
On the day of the P51 crash I listened to the radio
while pulling out of the parking lot. They had an
announcer who had a little information but said they
were sending someone in from their Fox Valley newsroom
and would report more at 5:30.
So, what is my point? I think the EAA is changing for
the worse from the perspective of an aviation
enthusiast. This is no longer the Convention of the
EAA (note that the old name points toward it being a
members event) but is now AirVenture (note the change
toward a general public or commercial event). The
symbol of the EAA is no longer a little homebuilt but
a more commercial oriented symbol (a jet).
My prediction:
1. The EAA and AirVenture will continue to decline
from the point of view of the little guy.
2. There will be an upswing in the number of small
aviation fly ins which are not related to the EAA
(i.e. Rough River).
3. Groups will merge at these fly in's (The canards
all get together as a large group now-this has
happened over the past few years). Even the Cozy
Dinner is open to all canards now-yes, I consider this
a good thing. I think we will see them joined at fly
ins by other types. Maybe we will see a fly in for
all composite planes which will be joined later by
wood and fabric, etc.
4. Fewer builders will attend OSH, instead, going to
the other fly ins. Those of us still in the work
force only have so much vacation after all.
5. An organization will form to promote the smaller
fly ins and provide support to the attendees.
Isn't that the way EAA got started?
Just some observations, thoughts and my opinion.
Dick Finn
Dick Finn
H: 708-246-8715
C: 708-359-9506
E-Mail: cozy7971@yahoo.com
Message 22
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I went to a similar one several years ago, back when I was planning to go
Lycoming (SHOULDA), and was going to build my own. I have extensive notes
& pics from that seminar here:
http://brian76.mystarband.net/SuperiorTextPics.htm
brian
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Joseph Larson
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 10:06 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Eaa banter
I went to the XP-360 build on Thursday. I was pretty much an
engine-ignoramus before this, but now I think I know enough to at least not
be completely stupid about them. Just mostly stupid :-)
And I had a very nice talk with one of the guys from P-Mag.
-J
On Aug 1, 2007, at 9:28 AM, Bob Collins wrote:
What is the most interesting RV-related thing you saw at Oshkosh this year,
folks? I didn't get a chance to see the RV on floats but I'd seen the
pictures of it. Smitty has some pictures of it in the water on Doug's site.
What else?
Forums? Anybody learn anything at a forum?
5:26 PM
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: EAA Criticism |
Additionally there is Adelphia, Delphi,Tyco, Enron, Home Depot and
hundreds of other companies that have paid millions to CEO's to
devastate the companies. Not saying they are all bad, but a good
majority of them are looking out for their golden parachutes rather than
share holder equity.
Dan Lloyd
N289DT RV10E Flying
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Collins
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 6:09 PM
Subject: RV-List: Re: EAA Criticism
Terry Watson wrote:
> The "slobs" (presumably C.E.O.s) are often the problem solvers willing
to
> take the risks necessary to salvage shareholder's equity by trying to
save a
> dying company.
You didn't ask, but I'll tell you anyway. I was thinking specifically of
NWA CEO Doug Steenland when I wrote that.
Yes, I would put him in the category of "slobs." All he's done is broken
unions, ruined families, stranded passengers, and -- oh yeah -- accepted
the $26 million dollars for the great job he did running his company
into bankruptcy.
Sorry. No sale.
--------
Bob Collins
St. Paul, Minn.
RV Builder's Hotline (free!)
http://rvhotline.expercraft.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=126737#126737
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: WAS Eaa banter NOW OSH interesting things |
I attended a seminar on runway homes, which turned out to be a lot about
self-directed IRAs, which Id only recently heard about and which seem like
a great idea. Not many people know about them, but you can roll your past
(not current) IRAs & 401Ks into a self-directed IRA that you can then use to
buy real estate, a business, etc, as long as its not to directly benefit
you or your direct relatives (so you cant use it to fund your plane).
Seems like a good idea. Google self-directed IRA to get tons of info
from the net.
Having attended about every possible building seminar in the past, I had
hoped to re-attend Kent Whites excellent series of seminars on metal
forming, but he wasnt doing them this year. Also, his booth in the
commercial hangar went unmanned, so I guess something came up for him & he
couldnt make it. See http://www.tinmantech.com/
I also re-attended Joe Norris excellent W&B seminar, as well as Joe
Gauthiers most excellent seminars on final inspection and flight testing.
If you havent attended them, I highly recommend them, as well as a Canadian
mans (sorry dont recall his name) excellent and necessary seminar on
fuel flow testing.
I also attended a paint design seminar, which was quite useful. See
http://schemedesigners.com/ for more info.
Saw lots of cool LSAs & ultralights, including a very cool one-off custom
design http://www.culverprops.com/back-yard-flyer.php
Mostly welded construction; quite unique
If I had it to do over again, Id get something like this first, then Id
have something to fly while I build. I REALLY miss flying, and find myself
constantly scheming on how to get an ultralight to fly while I spend at
least another year building.
I didnt spend much time in the RV area, as Ive already closely examined
and photographed about every RV there in past years. I guess Im getting
to the construction stage where Ive already bought about everything I need
and have done, committed to, or already know what I need to do
on all the remaining steps.
I saw a cool demo of the Vertical Power product to control all your wiring
in one box. Im already past that stage, but it looked promising. Not
cheap, but looks like a good product. The owner, Marc Ausman, also helped
support the RV BBQ. See http://www.verticalpower.com/
Some very cool jets, but, as my wife said to me when I commented on an
especially cool jet, when did you ever see a jet that you DIDNT think was
cool? If I won the lottery, Id buy an L-39 and spend 8 hours a day every
day training in it.
I saw a couple Questair Venture planes, a defunct kit, which were cool
picture a stubby, bulbous RV with a Conti 550 engine and retractable gear
that goes 240 knots.
The $10K Bruce King BK1 was pretty cool, too; also kind of a short, bulbous
cross between a Hummelbird and an RV
brian
http://brian76.mystarband.net/RV-7Ahome.htm
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bob Collins
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 9:28 AM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Eaa banter
What is the most interesting RV-related thing you saw at Oshkosh this year,
folks? I didn't get a chance to see the RV on floats but I'd seen the
pictures of it. Smitty has some pictures of it in the water on Doug's site.
What else?
Forums? Anybody learn anything at a forum?
_____
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Schaefer
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 9:20 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Eaa banter
As much as I didn't want to get involved ... your note was the last straw.
I agree completely with Charlie ... this is the RV FORUM .. not the bitch
about EAA forum. If you want a bitch about EAA forum go to Yahoo and create
an "EAA SUCKS" forum and continue to spout this dribble. OTHERWISE, let's
talk about RVs, RV construction etc.
OH .. and I've been a member of EAA since 1974 and while I don't like much
of what they have become, this is not the place to discuss it.
Now flame me all you want!
5:26 PM
Message 25
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Id say the most interesting RV thing at OSH was the largest formation
they
have ever seen, and we think ever done anyhere. The 35 ship formation w
as
way cool.
Being in it might make me biased. But it was RV cool none the less.
OK Ill admit too, that RV on floats was wayy cool too.
Mike
do not archive
<snip>
What is the most interesting RV-related thing you saw at Oshkosh this y
ear,
folks? I didn't get a chance to see the RV on floats but I'd seen the
pictures of it. Smitty has some pictures of it in the water on Doug's s
ite.
What else?
Forums? Anybody learn anything at a forum?
<snip>
Message 26
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Yep, Mike, you probably are understandably biased. But it WAS way cool.
Jerry
Do not archive
_____
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael W Stewart
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 12:19 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Eaa banter
Id say the most interesting RV thing at OSH was the largest formation they
have ever seen, and we think ever done anyhere. The 35 ship formation was
way cool.
Being in it might make me biased. But it was RV cool none the less.
OK Ill admit too, that RV on floats was wayy cool too.
Mike
do not archive
<snip>
What is the most interesting RV-related thing you saw at Oshkosh this year,
folks? I didn't get a chance to see the RV on floats but I'd seen the
pictures of it. Smitty has some pictures of it in the water on Doug's site.
What else?
Forums? Anybody learn anything at a forum?
<snip>
Message 27
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On 1 Aug 2007, at 15:19, Michael W Stewart wrote:
> Id say the most interesting RV thing at OSH was the largest
> formation they have ever seen, and we think ever done anyhere. The
> 35 ship formation was way cool.
>
Congratulations on the very impressive formation work. Looking at
the pictures, it is hard to find anyone very far out of position.
That is a real credit to the skills of each of the pilots, and to
smooth flying by lead.
I bet the guys who flew the B-17s and B-24s during WWII might
disagree with you that 35 aircraft in formation was the largest
ever. Their formations weren't as tightly spaced, but they were
quite intricately choreographed, and no less difficult than yours.
The records seem to show formations of more than 50 B-17s or B-24s.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combat_box
I think I've also seen some pictures of very large formations during
various flypasts to celebrate the end of WWII, and the Soviet May Day
celebrations seemed to have quite large formations too.
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
Message 28
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Thanks for posting, Brian..I'm keeping that website handy.
Brian Meyette <brianpublic2@starband.net> wrote:
I went to a similar one several years ago, back when I was planning to go Lycoming (SHOULDA), and was going to build my own. I have extensive notes & pics from that seminar here: http://brian76.mystarband.net/SuperiorTextPics.htm
brian
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Joseph Larson
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 10:06 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Eaa banter
I went to the XP-360 build on Thursday. I was pretty much an engine-ignoramus
before this, but now I think I know enough to at least not be completely stupid
about them. Just mostly stupid :-)
And I had a very nice talk with one of the guys from P-Mag.
-J
On Aug 1, 2007, at 9:28 AM, Bob Collins wrote:
What is the most interesting RV-related thing you saw at Oshkosh this year, folks?
I didn't get a chance to see the RV on floats but I'd seen the pictures
of it. Smitty has some pictures of it in the water on Doug's site.
What else?
Forums? Anybody learn anything at a forum?
- The RV-List Email Forum -
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
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Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows.
Message 29
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I think you got that backwards. We are the lab rats for the gadgets that
eventually make it into the certified planes most of the time.
Brian Kraut
Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
www.engalt.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bob Collins
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 2:59 PM
Subject: RV-List: Re: Eaa banter
Excellent points. The other aspect of the rich and their rich toys -- i.e.,
the unaffordable production aircraft -- is they're the lab rats for stuff
that eventually will make it to the homebuilt folks.
GPS, glass panels, autopilots, weather in the cockpit? It all came from the
"high" end of aviation and made it to the "low end."
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Electronic Ignition |
Dave, et al,
I now have 1500 hours on Dual Lightspeed Ign. 8 years ago, I
experienced coil failures, not controller failures. My controllers and
coils are mounted on the firewall. I changed to GM coils and no problem
since. I think that the coil failures were caused by radiated heat from
exhaust pipes etc. I do have a Sam James Cowl and plenum, and fuel
injection.
Dick Martin
N233M RV8
Looking forward the AirVenture Race sunday.
----- Original Message -----
From: David Schaefer
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2007 2:16 PM
Subject: RV-List: Electronic Ignition
I saw a brand new Lightspeed fail this weekend .. most probably due to
heat under the cowl since it eventually re-set. The aircraft had mags
on one side ... so no big deal. However, wouldn't you think that the
current generation of electronic ignitions would take into account that
under the cowl on an airplane is HOT and make some sort of
consideration? It's my understanding that the vast majority of these
ignitions controllers are installed on the fire-wall? Anyone else had
any ideas, recommendations here? I think these are great electronic
ignition systems and am looking to install a pair on an aircraft .. but
it was an old fashioned MAG that got us back to the airport!
--
David W. Schaefer
RV-6A N142DS "Geek One"
TMX-IOF360 FADEC, Hartzell Blended Airfoil, GRT EFIS
www.n142ds.com
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: EAA Criticism |
I do not begruge Tom a cent of what he earns. I see him as CEO of a major corporation.
As one who actually ran a company with 10 employees, I feel that I can
truly appreciate the amazing job that he does each year with Airventure. It is
the premier aviation event in the US and possibly the world. The planning, logistics,
and just schmoozing to get the talent Tom does, wired into the event,
is fantastic. Joe whinner is not going to be able to get Steve Fossett, Chuck
Yeager, Bob Hoover, or the multitude of volunteers show up for Airventure. Plus
he is caring and involved with the actual attendees. Last year my wife (who
was just out of hip surgery) and I were running to catch a bus which had left
us behind. Tom and his wife actually stopped to pick us up and take us to our
destination. Only a fool can challenge the success the Tom and EAA management
have had in promoting the Sport Aviation initiative. Kuddos to Tom and EAA management.
A proud EAA member #778398
--------
OSH '08 or Bust
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=127075#127075
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: EAA Criticism - Oshkosh |
HI BOB, & EVERYONE,
GUESS I HAD MY HEAD IN THE SAND. I ENJOYED EVERY MINUTE OF OSH.
HOMEBUILTS, WARBIRDS, TRANSPORTS, FORMATIONS, VENDORS, PEOPLE, THE BBQ
(THANKS LOADS, BOB, GREAT FOOD & FELLOWSHIP), THE ICECREAM, AND EVEN THE
RAIN (CAUGHT IN A DRY SPOT WITH A GUY WHO HAD PUT HIS RV6 IN A FIELD AFTER
AN ENGINE OUT--GREAT CONVERSATION). THE COST WAS BEARABLE, THE HEAT WASN'T
BAD, THE TRIP UP FROM TEXAS AND BACK WAS GREAT. I JUST CAN'T THINK OF
ANYTHING TO B__CH ABOUT EXCEPT MY FEET GOT REALLY TIRED EVERY DAY AND I ONLY
GOT TO ATTEND 3 DAYS.
LARRY BOWLES
RV7A
AUSTIN, TEXAS
Message 33
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OK, would you believe it's the "smallest" 35 aircraft formation ever. (Note I did
not use the word "ship" as that might lead to dingbats in dingy's OR going
to the Ship vs Boat post argument again).
Kevin: We still have a warm one for ya'll. 8*) KABONG Do Not Archive. HRII
& HR .II both N561FS.
>From: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Eaa banter
>On 1 Aug 2007, at 15:19, Michael W Stewart wrote:
>
>> Id say the most interesting RV thing at OSH was the largest
>> formation they have ever seen, and we think ever done anyhere. The
>> 35 ship formation was way cool.
>>
>I bet the guys who flew the B-17s and B-24s during WWII might
>disagree with you that 35 aircraft in formation was the largest
>ever. Their formations weren't as tightly spaced, but they were
>quite intricately choreographed, and no less difficult than yours.
>The records seem to show formations of more than 50 B-17s or B-24s.
>
Message 34
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| Subject: | airventure 2007 - What's all the fuss?! |
I really had a great time. My wife and i have gone every year since we have
been dating. over the years we have learned how to save a few bucks, we
stop at the store and buy water, breakfast supplies, and sandwich makings.
We only eat out at night and we carry a backpack full of water and snacks.
I think with airfare, camping, rental car, 3 days of the show, and what not;
we maybe spent $600 bucks.
I really would like to thank Bob and Darwin for the cook out. Thanks guys.
oh and for the guy that asked me last year if i was GMCJetPilot, here is
your answer. http://www.myspace.com/gmcjetpilot
i found this on one of the other lists so i cant take the credit. Im sure
he'll be pulling the site down shortly since he has been found out. LOL
GMCJetPilot I welcome all input, even yours.
What did I like about AirVenture? BOB F#ing Hoover!! just to sit and listen
to the guy is a real experience.
I thought there were tons of vendors there this year. I think this was the
first time I did not see everything I wanted to see. The show attendance
seemed light but i think that was due to the weather and also it seemed
everyone hit the show early this year. I talked to the guy i purchased my
engine from and he said he had paid for them being at the show by noon on
monday!! what is bad about that?
Bob C. shoot me an email off list. We never got to finish our conversation
about how much coax you need. Lamar@TakeFlightTexas.com
Lamar
RV7A
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: airventure 2007 - What's all the fuss?! |
lamar(at)takeflighttexas. wrote:
>
> I really would like to thank Bob and Darwin for the cook out. Thanks guys.
I was in the middle of putting a slideshow together late this afternoon with about
120 picturs that my pal, Warren STarkebaum, took of the bbq. Then the bridge
in Minneapolis collapsed and I had to do my day job.
http://minnesota.publicradio.org
>
> oh and for the guy that asked me last year if i was GMCJetPilot, here is
> your answer. http://www.myspace.com/gmcjetpilot
> i found this on one of the other lists so i cant take the credit.
>
I can. I took it and the folks who've been plastering it all over the Internet
haven't credited me (let alone ask for permission). But, yeah, that's John Porter
right there. Funniest guy I ever met. The original is on my Letters From
Flyover Country blog.
--------
Bob Collins
St. Paul, Minn.
RV Builder's Hotline (free!)
http://rvhotline.expercraft.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=127098#127098
Message 36
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| Subject: | Official RV-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the RV-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below. The
complete RV-List FAQ including the Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/RV-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
[ Note: This FAQ was designed to be displayed with a fixed width font such as
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Microsoft has a really awesome utility available for free that allows
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Look for the link "Image Resizer"
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Download Via FTP
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The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com
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ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives
Download Via Web
----------------
The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found
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With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures
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!! ==> Please including the following information with each submission:
1) Email Lists that they are related to.
2) Your Full Name.
3) Your Email Address.
4) One line Subject description.
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic.
6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file
Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned
for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and
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Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be
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Share is available and what the direct URL to it is.
For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main
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Matt Dralle
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RV-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the RV-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the RV-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
RV-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the RV-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
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- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
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terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
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- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
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- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
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can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
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- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
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agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
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- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occassional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularyly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
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a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
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| Subject: | Official RV-List Usage Guidelines |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the RV-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete
RV-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/RV-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
RV-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the RV-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the RV-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
RV-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the RV-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occassional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularyly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: airventure 2007 - What's all the fuss?! |
My error, I thought the GMCJetpilot link was going to the now infamous image.
Anyway, say, lamar, I forgot to recognize you and Nina at the BBQ. It seemed only
right to applaud you on your wedding. So here's a virtual one instead. Shoot.
I'm sorry. next year we'll observe your first anniversary.
Will get to you on the side regarding that cable. But I'll take what youv'e got
left.
--------
Bob Collins
St. Paul, Minn.
RV Builder's Hotline (free!)
http://rvhotline.expercraft.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=127101#127101
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