---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 08/02/07: 23 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:16 AM - Re: Eaa banter (cbaron66) 2. 05:45 AM - Test (Richard Dudley) 3. 05:55 AM - Re: Re: Eaa banter (J. R. Dial) 4. 06:06 AM - Avweb 35 ship article (Michael W Stewart) 5. 06:31 AM - Re: Re: Eaa banter (Joe Larson) 6. 09:10 AM - Bridge Collapse (Joseph Larson) 7. 09:25 AM - Re: Cowl Intake plugs (Jeff Dowling) 8. 09:51 AM - OSH interesting things (Jeff Dowling) 9. 10:18 AM - TEST (Richard Dudley) 10. 11:03 AM - Re: Bridge Collapse (Jim Fogarty at Lakes & Leisure Realty) 11. 02:03 PM - Re: Re: Eaa banter (Bob Collins) 12. 02:44 PM - Re: Re: Eaa banter (Tim Bryan) 13. 02:48 PM - Re: Avweb 35 ship article (Tim Bryan) 14. 03:11 PM - Re: airventure 2007 - What's all the fuss?! () 15. 03:51 PM - Re: Re: Eaa banter (Bob Collins) 16. 03:54 PM - Re: Re: Eaa banter (Scott) 17. 05:42 PM - Re: Re: Eaa banter (Lamar Lawson) 18. 05:54 PM - Re: Re: airventure 2007 - What's all the fuss?! (Lamar Lawson) 19. 07:11 PM - Fuel Sender float not secure (n707sm) 20. 07:34 PM - Re: Fuel Sender float not secure (Fiveonepw@aol.com) 21. 07:44 PM - Re: Fuel Sender float not secure (Garry) 22. 08:01 PM - Re: Fuel Sender float not secure (evmeg@snowcrest.net) 23. 08:22 PM - Re: Fuel Sender float not secure (n707sm) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:16:17 AM PST US Subject: RV-List: Re: Eaa banter From: "cbaron66" I'm sorry if I came off a little harsh before- it's just that I get frustraited when everyone seems to think everything is rosey with GA and the EAA in particular. I also live in Minneapolis and I'm saddend by the bridge collapse-it kind of puts things in perspective. To show my displeasure with the way the EAA has spent my money in the past, I have decided to not renew my membership and I'll most likely never return to Osh again. Maybe my little "protest" will have an effect but most likely not. Right now I'm at the point of deciding what it is that I'm going to build. As you might assume from my user name, I used to own a '66 Baron and before that a '58 Travel air. I decided quite some time ago that, even though I'm an A&P, I'll never own another certified aircraft. For quite some time I was set on building an RV6 but(here's the part you won't like) over the last 7 to 9 years, from the "outside", the RV planes and crowds have become much like the classic corvette crowd. Now if I have to explain that, well, you'll just get madder at me... I have the skills and facilities to build from plans so that's where I'm going- to myself, that's much closer to EXPERIMENTAL aviation than ordering up a quick build "kit" that was put togther for you by some poor SOB in a third world country so you can get around the legal maint. constraints of flying spam cans. As far as getting what I wish for, I plan on flying my plans built plane from my own grass strip, day VFR only and never coming near any controlled airspace so, user fees(as I understand them), etc, will mean nothing to me. I'm not trying to offend anyone by offering my veiws, it's just to me, the EAA and for a large part, those that embrace what it has become, are not what I think EXPERIMENTAL aviation should be. But again this is just my opinion and it should not offend anyone if they don't agree. jmsears(at)adelphia.net wrote: > I really hate to step into this crap again; but, some comments > made were a little out of line. > > > > What exactly do you want to "give it a rest" to? The fact > > that a measurable amount of the membership of an > > organization that is "non-profit" are not overly pleased > > with the way their dues are used? > > > > > > The problem is, we can cuss and discuss this issue to death; > but, we're preaching to the choir. Our comments, negative > and positive, should be sent to the EAA instead of taking > up so much space here. How many have used "do not > archive" to keep this discussion out of the archives? If > one is not happy with an organization, one should let them > know. Another alternative is to drop one's membership. > I've done both with the EAA, when needed. > > > > Or are you talking about the fact that Osh has become > > mostly a place for wealthy people to buy/pose with/play > > with very expensive crap most of us will never even > > dream about owning? > > > > > > Yes, there is some of that; and, that was one reason I > dropped out of the EAA for a couple of years, some > years back. However, I have friends who look forward > to going to OSH every year, even though they bitch to > no end about the cost. I opt to not go. I have yet to > attend OSH because it does nothing for me. I did > attend Sun-n-Fun a few times; but, I've never had the > desire to do OSH. If one doesn't like what goes on > there, do as I do. It works for me. Oh, yeah. My > friends, for the most part, are far from wealthy. Two > I know spend their vacations volunteering so you can > have fun there. They can barely afford to attend it, > themselves. > > > > Even though I only started attending in the early > > ninties, I feel there isn't as much there for the little > > guy as there used to be(relative to the amount of high > > dollar sh_t that has no relevance to homebuilt aircraft). > > > > > > That is probably true. However, it is one of the places > one can go to see the latest in stuff that we can use in > our RVs, or any other thing we're building. I used my > first couple of trips to Sun-n-Fun to pick out a kit to > build. Later on, I used a trip to pick out my avionics. > I've made one trip there, since. I may not go to any > more of their events; but, they worked for me, when > I did attend. Local fly-ins are more to my liking. > > > > Nowdays, my favorite place is the few odd vendors > > left in the flymarket that sell old used airplane parts. > > > > > > That's a neat place, if one is looking for rare parts. You > won't find those vendors at most fly-ins. > > > > I guess we'll just give it all a rest and sweep it under > > the rug once again. > > > > > > You don't have to, if you complain to the source of the > problem. We tend to bitch amongst ourselves and do > nothing to really confront the problem. If you don't > talk with the EAA about what they're doing, they'll > continue to think they're still doing OK. When a bunch > of us started raising heck about the warbirds, etc., in > the magazine, that changed. After a couple of years of > being a non-member, I felt the magazine was good > enough for me to renew, again. The magazine is my > main benefit from the organization. When it no longer > appeals to me, I'll complain to the EAA. > > > > However I will win out, as I only in my forties and all the > > sad faced old men with more money than skills will quit > > flying and die. > > > > > > Remember, we old men make up a goodly portion of GA. > However, not all of us old men are rich. In fact, most of > the guys I know are considering getting out of aviation, not > because of our health. We can no longer justify the cost. If > you can, then you must be one of the richer guys you're > talking about. The young folks I know can't afford a LSA > ticket, much less a private ticket. Owning an airplane is > something they can only dream about. The expenses of > raising a family take all they have. If you can still afford it, > you must be richer than you think. :-) > > As for the skills, who do you learn your skills from? Mine > have come from various sources, to include those older than > I am. Will you be enough to back fill what will be lost when > us older guys die off? Remember, it's not just the rich old > guys who die. We older builders with skills die, as well. > > > > That will cause EAA to hopfully shrink back to what > > is was and should be again- a (small) group of fanatic > > enthusists that build airplanes with their hands from > > napkin drawings and don't need huge multi-corparate > > sponsorship to get together and have a little fun once > > a year. > > > > > > Unfortunately, you're right about the shrinkage because > there won't be enough young people with the incomes > and the desire to maintain GA as we know it, today. It > will be the rich who will be able to continue aviation, > just as it is in Europe, today. You can forget your get > togethers because those will be a thing of the past. If > you want to see what it will be like, look at the large > fly-ins of Europe. A big one there is no larger than one > of our local events. Do you think you'd ever see an > impromptu RV fly-in draw over 100 airplanes because > the pilots just needed something to do? I think not. > > That shrinkage you speak of will also mean a shrinkage > of kits provided to those who want to build; so, we may > have to revert back to scratch building to get anything built, > provided parts suppliers are not all driven out of business > by the lack of business. Just think of all of the jobs that > will be lost, if us older guys die off. We'll see GA for > the middle class die. Since I'm one of the older guys, I > may not live to see that happen, thankfully. > > My suggestion is that you should watch what you wish for. > You may get it and may not like what you get. > > Jim Sears in KY > RV-6A N198JS (Scooter) > RV-7A #70317 (Building when I get the urge) > do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=127124#127124 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:45:59 AM PST US From: Richard Dudley Subject: RV-List: Test Do not archive ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:55:26 AM PST US From: "J. R. Dial" Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Eaa banter If y'all spent as much time building as you do arguing about non RV stuff you would be flying now. DO NOT ARCHIVE -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of cbaron66 Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 7:15 AM Subject: RV-List: Re: Eaa banter I'm sorry if I came off a little harsh before- it's just that I get frustraited when everyone seems to think everything is rosey with GA and the EAA in particular. I also live in Minneapolis and I'm saddend by the bridge collapse-it kind of puts things in perspective. To show my displeasure with the way the EAA has spent my money in the past, I have decided to not renew my membership and I'll most likely never return to Osh again. Maybe my little "protest" will have an effect but most likely not. Right now I'm at the point of deciding what it is that I'm going to build. As you might assume from my user name, I used to own a '66 Baron and before that a '58 Travel air. I decided quite some time ago that, even though I'm an A&P, I'll never own another certified aircraft. For quite some time I was set on building an RV6 but(here's the part you won't like) over the last 7 to 9 years, from the "outside", the RV planes and crowds have become much like the classic corvette crowd. No! w if I have to explain that, well, you'll just get madder at me... I have the skills and facilities to build from plans so that's where I'm going- to myself, that's much closer to EXPERIMENTAL aviation than ordering up a quick build "kit" that was put togther for you by some poor SOB in a third world country so you can get around the legal maint. constraints of flying spam cans. As far as getting what I wish for, I plan on flying my plans built plane from my own grass strip, day VFR only and never coming near any controlled airspace so, user fees(as I understand them), etc, will mean nothing to me. I'm not trying to offend anyone by offering my veiws, it's just to me, the EAA and for a large part, those that embrace what it has become, are not what I think EXPERIMENTAL aviation should be. But again this is just my opinion and it should not offend anyone if they don't agree. jmsears(at)adelphia.net wrote: > I really hate to step into this crap again; but, some comments > made were a little out of line. > > > > What exactly do you want to "give it a rest" to? The fact > > that a measurable amount of the membership of an > > organization that is "non-profit" are not overly pleased > > with the way their dues are used? > > > > > > The problem is, we can cuss and discuss this issue to death; > but, we're preaching to the choir. Our comments, negative > and positive, should be sent to the EAA instead of taking > up so much space here. How many have used "do not > archive" to keep this discussion out of the archives? If > one is not happy with an organization, one should let them > know. Another alternative is to drop one's membership. > I've done both with the EAA, when needed. > > > > Or are you talking about the fact that Osh has become > > mostly a place for wealthy people to buy/pose with/play > > with very expensive crap most of us will never even > > dream about owning? > > > > > > Yes, there is some of that; and, that was one reason I > dropped out of the EAA for a couple of years, some > years back. However, I have friends who look forward > to going to OSH every year, even though they bitch to > no end about the cost. I opt to not go. I have yet to > attend OSH because it does nothing for me. I did > attend Sun-n-Fun a few times; but, I've never had the > desire to do OSH. If one doesn't like what goes on > there, do as I do. It works for me. Oh, yeah. My > friends, for the most part, are far from wealthy. Two > I know spend their vacations volunteering so you can > have fun there. They can barely afford to attend it, > themselves. > > > > Even though I only started attending in the early > > ninties, I feel there isn't as much there for the little > > guy as there used to be(relative to the amount of high > > dollar sh_t that has no relevance to homebuilt aircraft). > > > > > > That is probably true. However, it is one of the places > one can go to see the latest in stuff that we can use in > our RVs, or any other thing we're building. I used my > first couple of trips to Sun-n-Fun to pick out a kit to > build. Later on, I used a trip to pick out my avionics. > I've made one trip there, since. I may not go to any > more of their events; but, they worked for me, when > I did attend. Local fly-ins are more to my liking. > > > > Nowdays, my favorite place is the few odd vendors > > left in the flymarket that sell old used airplane parts. > > > > > > That's a neat place, if one is looking for rare parts. You > won't find those vendors at most fly-ins. > > > > I guess we'll just give it all a rest and sweep it under > > the rug once again. > > > > > > You don't have to, if you complain to the source of the > problem. We tend to bitch amongst ourselves and do > nothing to really confront the problem. If you don't > talk with the EAA about what they're doing, they'll > continue to think they're still doing OK. When a bunch > of us started raising heck about the warbirds, etc., in > the magazine, that changed. After a couple of years of > being a non-member, I felt the magazine was good > enough for me to renew, again. The magazine is my > main benefit from the organization. When it no longer > appeals to me, I'll complain to the EAA. > > > > However I will win out, as I only in my forties and all the > > sad faced old men with more money than skills will quit > > flying and die. > > > > > > Remember, we old men make up a goodly portion of GA. > However, not all of us old men are rich. In fact, most of > the guys I know are considering getting out of aviation, not > because of our health. We can no longer justify the cost. If > you can, then you must be one of the richer guys you're > talking about. The young folks I know can't afford a LSA > ticket, much less a private ticket. Owning an airplane is > something they can only dream about. The expenses of > raising a family take all they have. If you can still afford it, > you must be richer than you think. :-) > > As for the skills, who do you learn your skills from? Mine > have come from various sources, to include those older than > I am. Will you be enough to back fill what will be lost when > us older guys die off? Remember, it's not just the rich old > guys who die. We older builders with skills die, as well. > > > > That will cause EAA to hopfully shrink back to what > > is was and should be again- a (small) group of fanatic > > enthusists that build airplanes with their hands from > > napkin drawings and don't need huge multi-corparate > > sponsorship to get together and have a little fun once > > a year. > > > > > > Unfortunately, you're right about the shrinkage because > there won't be enough young people with the incomes > and the desire to maintain GA as we know it, today. It > will be the rich who will be able to continue aviation, > just as it is in Europe, today. You can forget your get > togethers because those will be a thing of the past. If > you want to see what it will be like, look at the large > fly-ins of Europe. A big one there is no larger than one > of our local events. Do you think you'd ever see an > impromptu RV fly-in draw over 100 airplanes because > the pilots just needed something to do? I think not. > > That shrinkage you speak of will also mean a shrinkage > of kits provided to those who want to build; so, we may > have to revert back to scratch building to get anything built, > provided parts suppliers are not all driven out of business > by the lack of business. Just think of all of the jobs that > will be lost, if us older guys die off. We'll see GA for > the middle class die. Since I'm one of the older guys, I > may not live to see that happen, thankfully. > > My suggestion is that you should watch what you wish for. > You may get it and may not like what you get. > > Jim Sears in KY > RV-6A N198JS (Scooter) > RV-7A #70317 (Building when I get the urge) > do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=127124#127124 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:06:43 AM PST US Subject: RV-List: Avweb 35 ship article From: Michael W Stewart EAA banter not withstanding, here is todays article on the 35 ship from AVWeb. http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/RVs_Celebrate_At_Oshkosh_195815-1. html 35 RVs Celebrate 35 Years Of Vans' At Oshkosh By Mary Grady, Contributing Editor Any pilot who has tried formation flying knows it is harder than it loo ks. And if flying close to two or three pals seems daunting, imagine flying in formation with 34 other airplanes. But a group of Van's RV pilots, determined to honor designer Richard VanGrunsven and Van's Aircraft on their 35th anniversary of being at Oshkosh, pulled it off with panache last week. After a couple of practice runs at a nearby airport, the 35-ship formation flew a mass arrival into Wittman Field on Sunday afternoon, t he day before the show opened. On Tuesday and Wednesday, all 35 airplanes took off four at a time, then flew several maneuvers over the show. "This formation over OSH was the buzz along the flightline and particularly noteworthy as 35 pilots and planes remained mechanically sound and in precision tight formations five times over a five-day period," flight leader Stu McCurdy told AVweb. "It was a fitting acknowledgement of 35 years of Van's Aircraft producing quality homebuilt kits, with more tha n 5,000 now flying." During the airshow, the airplanes took off four at a time in fingertip formation, McCurdy said. "After takeoff, the No. 4s dropped into the slot for four-ship Diamond formations, and the four-sh ip Diamonds then formed two 16-ship Diamond of Diamonds formation with a three-ship tacked onto the second. The two formations then entered the airspace over Oshkosh with a criss-cross maneuver followed by a join-up into a Double Diamond shape. The 35-ship then transitioned in a Figure 8 pattern over OSH into an Arrow formation, then a Cluster formation, and then for the final pass they joined into a huge 35-ship Diamond formati on. As far as we know, this is the largest close formation shape ever flown at AirVenture, or anywhere else." Mike ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:31:13 AM PST US From: Joe Larson Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Eaa banter Bruce, I think you'll find that the RV building crowd is all over the map on personality types. I'm building a slow-build -6A and wouldn't consider a quick build. I *would* consider a match-drilled kit like the newer production designs simply to help keep things straighter. I'm not an A&P -- I'm a computer geek -- and these types of help would be nice for guys like me. If you want to do plans built, you might like the Cozy Mark IV. It looks like a nice airplane. -J On Aug 2, 2007, at 7:15 AM, cbaron66 wrote: > > I'm sorry if I came off a little harsh before- it's just that I get > frustraited when everyone seems to think everything is rosey with > GA and the EAA in particular. I also live in Minneapolis and I'm > saddend by the bridge collapse-it kind of puts things in > perspective. To show my displeasure with the way the EAA has spent > my money in the past, I have decided to not renew my membership and > I'll most likely never return to Osh again. Maybe my little > "protest" will have an effect but most likely not. Right now I'm at > the point of deciding what it is that I'm going to build. As you > might assume from my user name, I used to own a '66 Baron and > before that a '58 Travel air. I decided quite some time ago that, > even though I'm an A&P, I'll never own another certified aircraft. > For quite some time I was set on building an RV6 but(here's the > part you won't like) over the last 7 to 9 years, from the > "outside", the RV planes and crowds have become much like the > classic corvette crowd. No! > w if I have to explain that, well, you'll just get madder at me... > I have the skills and facilities to build from plans so that's > where I'm going- to myself, that's much closer to EXPERIMENTAL > aviation than ordering up a quick build "kit" that was put togther > for you by some poor SOB in a third world country so you can get > around the legal maint. constraints of flying spam cans. As far as > getting what I wish for, I plan on flying my plans built plane from > my own grass strip, day VFR only and never coming near any > controlled airspace so, user fees(as I understand them), etc, will > mean nothing to me. I'm not trying to offend anyone by offering my > veiws, it's just to me, the EAA and for a large part, those that > embrace what it has become, are not what I think EXPERIMENTAL > aviation should be. But again this is just my opinion and it should > not offend anyone if they don't agree. > jmsears(at)adelphia.net wrote: >> I really hate to step into this crap again; but, some comments >> made were a little out of line. >> >> >>> What exactly do you want to "give it a rest" to? The fact >>> that a measurable amount of the membership of an >>> organization that is "non-profit" are not overly pleased >>> with the way their dues are used? >>> >>> >> >> The problem is, we can cuss and discuss this issue to death; >> but, we're preaching to the choir. Our comments, negative >> and positive, should be sent to the EAA instead of taking >> up so much space here. How many have used "do not >> archive" to keep this discussion out of the archives? If >> one is not happy with an organization, one should let them >> know. Another alternative is to drop one's membership. >> I've done both with the EAA, when needed. >> >> >>> Or are you talking about the fact that Osh has become >>> mostly a place for wealthy people to buy/pose with/play >>> with very expensive crap most of us will never even >>> dream about owning? >>> >>> >> >> Yes, there is some of that; and, that was one reason I >> dropped out of the EAA for a couple of years, some >> years back. However, I have friends who look forward >> to going to OSH every year, even though they bitch to >> no end about the cost. I opt to not go. I have yet to >> attend OSH because it does nothing for me. I did >> attend Sun-n-Fun a few times; but, I've never had the >> desire to do OSH. If one doesn't like what goes on >> there, do as I do. It works for me. Oh, yeah. My >> friends, for the most part, are far from wealthy. Two >> I know spend their vacations volunteering so you can >> have fun there. They can barely afford to attend it, >> themselves. >> >> >>> Even though I only started attending in the early >>> ninties, I feel there isn't as much there for the little >>> guy as there used to be(relative to the amount of high >>> dollar sh_t that has no relevance to homebuilt aircraft). >>> >>> >> >> That is probably true. However, it is one of the places >> one can go to see the latest in stuff that we can use in >> our RVs, or any other thing we're building. I used my >> first couple of trips to Sun-n-Fun to pick out a kit to >> build. Later on, I used a trip to pick out my avionics. >> I've made one trip there, since. I may not go to any >> more of their events; but, they worked for me, when >> I did attend. Local fly-ins are more to my liking. >> >> >>> Nowdays, my favorite place is the few odd vendors >>> left in the flymarket that sell old used airplane parts. >>> >>> >> >> That's a neat place, if one is looking for rare parts. You >> won't find those vendors at most fly-ins. >> >> >>> I guess we'll just give it all a rest and sweep it under >>> the rug once again. >>> >>> >> >> You don't have to, if you complain to the source of the >> problem. We tend to bitch amongst ourselves and do >> nothing to really confront the problem. If you don't >> talk with the EAA about what they're doing, they'll >> continue to think they're still doing OK. When a bunch >> of us started raising heck about the warbirds, etc., in >> the magazine, that changed. After a couple of years of >> being a non-member, I felt the magazine was good >> enough for me to renew, again. The magazine is my >> main benefit from the organization. When it no longer >> appeals to me, I'll complain to the EAA. >> >> >>> However I will win out, as I only in my forties and all the >>> sad faced old men with more money than skills will quit >>> flying and die. >>> >>> >> >> Remember, we old men make up a goodly portion of GA. >> However, not all of us old men are rich. In fact, most of >> the guys I know are considering getting out of aviation, not >> because of our health. We can no longer justify the cost. If >> you can, then you must be one of the richer guys you're >> talking about. The young folks I know can't afford a LSA >> ticket, much less a private ticket. Owning an airplane is >> something they can only dream about. The expenses of >> raising a family take all they have. If you can still afford it, >> you must be richer than you think. :-) >> >> As for the skills, who do you learn your skills from? Mine >> have come from various sources, to include those older than >> I am. Will you be enough to back fill what will be lost when >> us older guys die off? Remember, it's not just the rich old >> guys who die. We older builders with skills die, as well. >> >> >>> That will cause EAA to hopfully shrink back to what >>> is was and should be again- a (small) group of fanatic >>> enthusists that build airplanes with their hands from >>> napkin drawings and don't need huge multi-corparate >>> sponsorship to get together and have a little fun once >>> a year. >>> >>> >> >> Unfortunately, you're right about the shrinkage because >> there won't be enough young people with the incomes >> and the desire to maintain GA as we know it, today. It >> will be the rich who will be able to continue aviation, >> just as it is in Europe, today. You can forget your get >> togethers because those will be a thing of the past. If >> you want to see what it will be like, look at the large >> fly-ins of Europe. A big one there is no larger than one >> of our local events. Do you think you'd ever see an >> impromptu RV fly-in draw over 100 airplanes because >> the pilots just needed something to do? I think not. >> >> That shrinkage you speak of will also mean a shrinkage >> of kits provided to those who want to build; so, we may >> have to revert back to scratch building to get anything built, >> provided parts suppliers are not all driven out of business >> by the lack of business. Just think of all of the jobs that >> will be lost, if us older guys die off. We'll see GA for >> the middle class die. Since I'm one of the older guys, I >> may not live to see that happen, thankfully. >> >> My suggestion is that you should watch what you wish for. >> You may get it and may not like what you get. >> >> Jim Sears in KY >> RV-6A N198JS (Scooter) >> RV-7A #70317 (Building when I get the urge) >> do not archive > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=127124#127124 > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:10:17 AM PST US From: Joseph Larson Subject: RV-List: Bridge Collapse Yes, I know, it's not RV-related. There was a major bridge collapse in Minneapolis last night during rush hour. It's all over the news, so I'm sure everyone knows about it by now. A handful confirmed dead and 30-40 people are still missing. We have a lot of RV builders in the Twin Cities. To everyone living in the Cities or with friends and family here, I hope you're all okay. If anyone has been touched by this catastrophe and needs a hand, feel free to contact me. I can host house guests who need to come in to help family members or take in pets or children who need a place to stay while their parents are dealing with the fallout. It would be nice if our TC-based builders could chime in and let us know y'all are ok. -Joe ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:25:10 AM PST US From: Jeff Dowling Subject: Re: RV-List: Cowl Intake plugs You can get a pack of 3 sponges from Walmart that work great and give your plane that home built, custom look for a few bucks. Jeff Shemp Dowling 6a 350hrs Tim Bryan wrote: > > While at Oshkosh I saw several RVs with red plugs that go in the cowl > intakes. Where can a person get these for an RV-6? > > Thanks > > Tim > > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > > * > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:51:18 AM PST US From: Jeff Dowling Subject: RV-List: OSH interesting things How about the folding wing flying car from MIT grad students. http://news.com.com/Flying+car+ready+for+takeoff/2100-11389_3-6040007.html Jeff Shemp Dowling Brian Meyette wrote: > > I attended a seminar on runway homes, which turned out to be a lot > about self-directed IRAs, which Id only recently heard about and > which seem like a great idea. Not many people know about them, but > you can roll your past (not current) IRAs & 401Ks into a self-directed > IRA that you can then use to buy real estate, a business, etc, as long > as its not to directly benefit you or your direct relatives (so you > cant use it to fund your plane). Seems like a good idea. Google > self-directed IRA to get tons of info from the net. > > > > Having attended about every possible building seminar in the past, I > had hoped to re-attend Kent Whites excellent series of seminars on > metal forming, but he wasnt doing them this year. Also, his booth > in the commercial hangar went unmanned, so I guess something came up > for him & he couldnt make it. See http://www.tinmantech.com/ > > > > I also re-attended Joe Norris excellent W&B seminar, as well as Joe > Gauthiers most excellent seminars on final inspection and flight > testing. If you havent attended them, I highly recommend them, as > well as a Canadian mans (sorry dont recall his name) excellent and > necessary seminar on fuel flow testing. > > > > I also attended a paint design seminar, which was quite useful. See > http://schemedesigners.com/ for more info. > > > > Saw lots of cool LSAs & ultralights, including a very cool one-off > custom design http://www.culverprops.com/back-yard-flyer.php > > Mostly welded construction; quite unique > > If I had it to do over again, Id get something like this first, then > Id have something to fly while I build. I REALLY miss flying, and > find myself constantly scheming on how to get an ultralight to fly > while I spend at least another year building. > > > > I didnt spend much time in the RV area, as Ive already closely > examined and photographed about every RV there in past years. I > guess Im getting to the construction stage where Ive already bought > about everything I need and have done, committed to, or > already know what I need to do on all the remaining steps. > > > > I saw a cool demo of the Vertical Power product to control all your > wiring in one box. Im already past that stage, but it looked > promising. Not cheap, but looks like a good product. The owner, Marc > Ausman, also helped support the RV BBQ. See > http://www.verticalpower.com/ > > > > Some very cool jets, but, as my wife said to me when I commented on an > especially cool jet, when did you ever see a jet that you DIDNT > think was cool? If I won the lottery, Id buy an L-39 and spend 8 > hours a day every day training in it. > > > > I saw a couple Questair Venture planes, a defunct kit, which were cool > picture a stubby, bulbous RV with a Conti 550 engine and retractable > gear that goes 240 knots. > > > > The $10K Bruce King BK1 was pretty cool, too; also kind of a short, > bulbous cross between a Hummelbird and an RV > > > > brian > > > > http://brian76.mystarband.net/RV-7Ahome.htm > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > *From:* owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]*On Behalf Of *Bob Collins > *Sent:* Wednesday, August 01, 2007 9:28 AM > *To:* rv-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* RE: RV-List: Re: Eaa banter > > > > What is the most interesting RV-related thing you saw at Oshkosh this > year, folks? I didn't get a chance to see the RV on floats but I'd > seen the pictures of it. Smitty has some pictures of it in the water > on Doug's site. > > > > What else? > > > > Forums? Anybody learn anything at a forum? > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *David Schaefer > *Sent:* Wednesday, August 01, 2007 9:20 AM > *To:* rv-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: RV-List: Re: Eaa banter > > As much as I didn't want to get involved ... your note was the last > straw. I agree completely with Charlie ... this is the RV FORUM .. > not the bitch about EAA forum. If you want a bitch about EAA forum go > to Yahoo and create an "EAA SUCKS" forum and continue to spout this > dribble. OTHERWISE, let's talk about RVs, RV construction etc. > > OH .. and I've been a member of EAA since 1974 and while I don't like > much of what they have become, this is not the place to discuss it. > > Now flame me all you want! > > > * * > * * > * - The RV-List Email Forum -* > ** > ** > ** > ** > ** > * * > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:18:27 AM PST US From: Richard Dudley Subject: RV-List: TEST do not archive ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:03:41 AM PST US From: "Jim Fogarty at Lakes & Leisure Realty" Subject: Re: RV-List: Bridge Collapse I'm building an RV9a at Breezy Point MN and our family is all okay. Our son Jon and his family were in the area at 4 pm returning from Wisconsin but they were on 94. My prayers go out to all the families. Destruction like this hits home real fast! The cell phones were hot in MN last night. Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph Larson" Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 11:07 AM Subject: RV-List: Bridge Collapse > > Yes, I know, it's not RV-related. > > There was a major bridge collapse in Minneapolis last night during rush > hour. It's all over the news, so I'm sure everyone knows about it by > now. A handful confirmed dead and 30-40 people are still missing. > > We have a lot of RV builders in the Twin Cities. To everyone living in > the Cities or with friends and family here, I hope you're all okay. > > If anyone has been touched by this catastrophe and needs a hand, feel > free to contact me. I can host house guests who need to come in to help > family members or take in pets or children who need a place to stay while > their parents are dealing with the fallout. > > It would be nice if our TC-based builders could chime in and let us know > y'all are ok. > > -Joe > > > -- > 269.11.2/931 - Release Date: 8/1/2007 4:53 PM > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 02:03:27 PM PST US From: "Bob Collins" Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Eaa banter / / If y'all spent as much time building as you do arguing about non RV stuff you would be flying now. new suggested thread, then. How do I get the $30,000 (I'm pay-as-you-go) to finish the plane? If only it were all about time. (g) do not archive ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:44:54 PM PST US From: "Tim Bryan" Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Eaa banter Hey Bob, The Check is in the Mail.. somewhere Do Not Archive! _____ From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Collins Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 4:01 PM Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Eaa banter / / If y'all spent as much time building as you do arguing about non RV stuff you would be flying now. new suggested thread,then. How do I get the $30,000 (I'm pay-as-you-go) to finish the plane?Ifonly it were all about time. (g) do notarchive ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:48:36 PM PST US From: "Tim Bryan" Subject: RE: RV-List: Avweb 35 ship article I saw this formation and it was outstanding. All you pilots did a great job and of course Stu is one of the most rock solid pilots I have ever seen. Great Job and nice representation of the RV aircraft. Tim Do Not Archive _____ From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael W Stewart Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 8:05 AM Subject: RV-List: Avweb 35 ship article EAA banter not withstanding, here is todays article on the 35 ship from AVWeb. http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/RVs_Celebrate_At_Oshkosh_195815-1.html 35 RVs Celebrate 35 Years Of Vans' At Oshkosh By Mary Grady, Contributing Editor Any pilot who has tried formation flying knows it is harder than it looks. And if flying close to two or three pals seems daunting, imagine flying in formation with 34 other airplanes. But a group of Van's RV pilots, determined to honor designer Richard VanGrunsven and Van's Aircraft on their 35th anniversary of being at Oshkosh, pulled it off with panache last week. After a couple of practice runs at a nearby airport, the 35-ship formation flew a mass arrival into Wittman Field on Sunday afternoon, the day before the show opened. On Tuesday and Wednesday, all 35 airplanes took off four at a time, then flew several maneuvers over the show. "This formation over OSH was the buzz along the flightline and particularly noteworthy as 35 pilots and planes remained mechanically sound and in precision tight formations five times over a five-day period," flight leader Stu McCurdy told AVweb. "It was a fitting acknowledgement of 35 years of Van's Aircraft producing quality homebuilt kits, with more than 5,000 now flying." During the airshow, the airplanes took off four at a time in fingertip formation, McCurdy said. "After takeoff, the No. 4s dropped into the slot for four-ship Diamond formations, and the four-ship Diamonds then formed two 16-ship Diamond of Diamonds formation with a three-ship tacked onto the second. The two formations then entered the airspace over Oshkosh with a criss-cross maneuver followed by a join-up into a Double Diamond shape. The 35-ship then transitioned in a Figure 8 pattern over OSH into an Arrow formation, then a Cluster formation, and then for the final pass they joined into a huge 35-ship Diamond formation. As far as we know, this is the largest close formation shape ever flown at AirVenture, or anywhere else." Mike ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 03:11:22 PM PST US From: Subject: RV-List: Re: airventure 2007 - What's all the fuss?! >From: "Lamar Lawson" >Subject: airventure 2007 - What's all the fuss?! > >oh and for the guy that asked me last year if i was gmcjetpilot, here is >Im sure he'll be pulling the site down shortly since he has been found out. >LOL GMCJetPilot I welcome all input, even yours. I saw the Tee-shirt and love it. Laughed my tail off. That was you? Cool but I want a cut of the sales. Found out? Take the "site" down? You seem obsessed. Should I alert the authorities? If any thing happens to me it's Lamar....BTW If you where mistaken for me, you must be hansom, ha ha ha. Be "myfriend" Cheers George Do not archive --------------------------------- Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 03:51:52 PM PST US From: "Bob Collins" Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Eaa banter I'm thinking of starting a new letter writing campaign on the Intenet. Greetings: I am Zambuto Muhawe... an RV-8 builder in Nigeria, and a former wealthy dictator who needs your help to recover my millions. IN exchange, I offer to shre with you and buck you rivet. .... Do not archive _____ From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Bryan Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 4:42 PM Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Eaa banter Hey Bob, The Check is in the Mail.. somewhere Do Not Archive! _____ From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Collins Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 4:01 PM Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Eaa banter / / If y'all spent as much time building as you do arguing about non RV stuff you would be flying now. new suggested thread,then. How do I get the $30,000 (I'm pay-as-you-go) to finish the plane?Ifonly it were all about time. (g) do notarchive ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 03:54:45 PM PST US From: Scott Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Eaa banter We had a "formation" flight of Aeroncas back in 1998 where we flew enmasse from Marion, IN to Middletown, OH...97 or so planes as I recall....I was about #80 in the big "V" toward the back since I thought I was a little slower than most of the other Champs and Chiefs... do not archive Scott http://corbenflyer.tripod.com/ Gotta Fly or Gonna Die Building RV-4 (Super Slow Build Version) Michael W Stewart wrote: > Id say the most interesting RV thing at OSH was the largest formation > they have ever seen, and we think ever done anyhere. The 35 ship > formation was way cool. > Being in it might make me biased. But it was RV cool none the less. > OK Ill admit too, that RV on floats was wayy cool too. > > Mike > do not archive > > > What is the most interesting RV-related thing you saw at Oshkosh this > year, folks? I didn't get a chance to see the RV on floats but I'd > seen the pictures of it. Smitty has some pictures of it in the water > on Doug's site. > > What else? > > Forums? Anybody learn anything at a forum? > > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 05:42:44 PM PST US From: "Lamar Lawson" Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Eaa banter I hear ya bob. I have had to beg, borrow, and steal to get funding and im still short. I made a budget for this project 3 yrs ago. I made some guesses about costs, I was way off!! Oh and Vans calculator really needs to be updated. I know certain things now that would save me time and money so maybe the next time around i can save a few bucks. Lamar RV7A ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Collins To: rv-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 5:50 PM Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Eaa banter I'm thinking of starting a new letter writing campaign on the Intenet. Greetings: I am Zambuto Muhawe... an RV-8 builder in Nigeria, and a former wealthy dictator who needs your help to recover my millions. IN exchange, I offer to shre with you and buck you rivet. .... Do not archive ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Bryan Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 4:42 PM To: rv-list@matronics.com Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Eaa banter Hey Bob, The Check is in the Mail.. somewhere Do Not Archive! ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Collins Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 4:01 PM To: rv-list@matronics.com Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Eaa banter / / If y'all spent as much time building as you do arguing about non RV stuff you would be flying now. new suggested thread,then. How do I get the $30,000 (I'm pay-as-you-go) to finish the plane?Ifonly it were all about time. (g) do notarchive href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics. com/Navigator?RV-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 05:54:39 PM PST US From: "Lamar Lawson" Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: airventure 2007 - What's all the fuss?! I just wanted to make sure everyone knew that I was not you. I really did have people ask me, so for my own personal protection i wanted to make sure my ID was clear. also, i did find your myspace page on another matronics list, im too lazy and have no time to bother. Also, i was not the one with the shirt, once again im too lazy and have no time to bother. I did think it was funny too. so you do not need to call the DA and have restraining order placed on me. I have no plans to be in NC, havent been there since I stopped jumping out of airplanes. Hang in there GMC i still enjoy your banter from time to time but lets drop this conversation and discus RVs. Lamar RV7A ----- Original Message ----- From: gmcjetpilot@yahoo.com To: lamar@takeflighttexas.com ; bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net ; rv-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 5:10 PM Subject: RV-List: Re: airventure 2007 - What's all the fuss?! >From: "Lamar Lawson" >Subject: airventure 2007 - What's all the fuss?! > >oh and for the guy that asked me last year if i was gmcjetpilot, here is >Im sure he'll be pulling the site down shortly since he has been found out. >LOL GMCJetPilot I welcome all input, even yours. I saw the Tee-shirt and love it. Laughed my tail off. That was you? Cool but I want a cut of the sales. Found out? Take the "site" down? You seem obsessed. Should I alert the authorities? If any thing happens to me it's Lamar....BTW If you where mistaken for me, you must be hansom, ha ha ha. Be "myfriend" Cheers George Do not archive ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 07:11:26 PM PST US Subject: RV-List: Fuel Sender float not secure From: "n707sm" I have a 7A with QB wings. I'm working on installing the Van's float type fuel senders, and have bent the float arm per the plans (with the unit). However, I'm surprised to find that the float arm does not have a positive fit in it's holder. Sure, it clips in fine, the holder tabs are intact, but the float arm can twirl around (within the plastic holder) and possibly come loose. Anybody else have this issue? Did you do anything about it? ...Like use ProSeal to help fix it in place? Thanks in advance for any advice. Michael O. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=127271#127271 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 07:34:43 PM PST US From: Fiveonepw@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel Sender float not secure In a message dated 08/02/2007 9:12:39 PM Central Daylight Time, mobrien02@comcast.net writes: Anybody else have this issue? Did you do anything about it? ...Like use ProSeal to help fix it in place? I've never heard of one coming loose, but in the Experimental world, whatever "floats" yer boat! There's many an RV out there with the fuel pickup tubes securely fastened with proseal, so I'd reckon a little dab'll do ya on them thar floats as well, but bear in mind it will add a bit of weight to the float... >From The PossumWorks in TN Mark Phillips _http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/_ (http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/) http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 07:44:57 PM PST US From: "Garry" Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel Sender float not secure Michael, I just completed the fix with an identical problem. The plans don't show it but you have to take the last 1/3 inch of the float arm and bend it 90 degrees. This bend will allow the arm to snap into the plastic holder with the 90 degree bend at the bottom of the holder. This keeps it from rotating around. I discovered this after I completed my build, painted the plane and did the 40 hour fly off. On my left wing, I removed the tank completely to gain access to the float sensor. The right I removed the sensor with the tank attached. Working in such a tight space between the wing and the fuselage, and trying to proseal the sensor back into place after making the appropriate bend in the float arm, was a tight and messy job. I almost suggest removing the tank.........but then your wings aren't yet attached so you've got it made. Garry Stout RV7A Tampa Florida ----- Original Message ----- From: "n707sm" Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 10:09 PM Subject: RV-List: Fuel Sender float not secure > > I have a 7A with QB wings. I'm working on installing the Van's float type > fuel senders, and have bent the float arm per the plans (with the unit). > However, I'm surprised to find that the float arm does not have a positive > fit in it's holder. Sure, it clips in fine, the holder tabs are intact, > but the float arm can twirl around (within the plastic holder) and > possibly come loose. > > Anybody else have this issue? Did you do anything about it? ...Like use > ProSeal to help fix it in place? > > Thanks in advance for any advice. > > Michael O. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=127271#127271 > > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 08:01:04 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel Sender float not secure From: evmeg@snowcrest.net Michael, I have seen this an awful lot. I think the problem is you missed a small bend in the float wire. Have another careful look at the bend diagram....its easy to miss. There is a 3/4" bend that is bent 90 degrees and goes right through the sending unit arm...just down from the clips. That is the only thing that keeps it from rotating. You can try using some sealant, it may work as well....but I recommend just getting some new floats. You may have a different problem but this one sounds textbook to me. Hope this helps.. Cheers... Evan Johnson > > I have a 7A with QB wings. I'm working on installing the Van's float type > fuel senders, and have bent the float arm per the plans (with the unit). > However, I'm surprised to find that the float arm does not have a positive > fit in it's holder. Sure, it clips in fine, the holder tabs are intact, > but the float arm can twirl around (within the plastic holder) and > possibly come loose. > > Anybody else have this issue? Did you do anything about it? ...Like use > ProSeal to help fix it in place? > > Thanks in advance for any advice. > > Michael O. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=127271#127271 > > --------------------------------------------- This message was sent using SnowCrest WebMail. http://www.snowcrest.net ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 08:22:26 PM PST US Subject: RV-List: Re: Fuel Sender float not secure From: "n707sm" Mark, Garry and Evan, Thanks a bunch for your quick replies. I now see that little detail on the plan -- makes sense. I had searched the forum prior to posting but did not see anybody else reporting this issue (...of course, if they're searching, they will have already made the mistake -- like me [Wink] ). Thanks again! Michael Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=127279#127279 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rv-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rv-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.